The Problem With Revenant In Warframe
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 ต.ค. 2024
- #warframehistory #tennocreate #warframe
The undead warden. But there's been a problem brewing over the past few years about this juggernaut and one that's been reflected from the games design itself in modern times.
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Revenant is great for casuals, my brother is a doctor, he hardly has time to farm, with revenant he doesn't have to worry about building, synergys, elemental damage, he just goes to town, we usually play warframe to crack some cold ones and talk since he lives in another state, I think it's a necessary evil, that's my opinion.
Based
Tell ur brother that he's cool
Yeah Revenant is great for people who just want to play every once in a while
ye like warframe i am always fine with some frames being easy to build and use rev has some depths (unlike wukong) and builds beyond just immortality with nice thrall mind control or his 4 and he is not broken he is just survival and some light thralling for damage buff with augment or helminth options
Warframe is Too Convoluted For it's Own Good. 👀
I look at Revenant the same way I look at busted gear/spells in a Souls game, they exist to allow people who otherwise couldn't clear the content to have a chance of still having fun playing the game. Not everything needs to be perfectly balanced, especially when you have such a massive variety of options. Don't ban training wheels just because you don't personally need them.
This is the correct answer
This is how I feel as well
It's even sillier to want to make everything perfectly balanced in a PvE game. It's not like everyone is out there getting smacked around by Revenant mains, they're our allies not our enemies in game.
In all honesty, if DE had any inclination in making more CC focussed gameplay, while reducing the reliance on damage all the time (and so giving us more options), they'd have to severely nerf, or remove Overguard.
Overguard has single handedly changed the way the game is played, by flatout denying CC, reducing Status, and requiring high damage, which has resulted in this whole "full on damage", one dimensional meta we're in, among other things like terrible drop rates, so quantity of kills ends up resulting in better chances for drops.
Honestly I like the fact the enemies have a counter to CC. It's makes the gameplay more engaging. Instead of mindlessly nuking rooms you have to shift focus to the guy buffing his buddies. CC is still viable you just gotta target focus every now and then.
@@Solverniawe Clearly weren't Watching The Same Video. 🤔
@@Solvernia the fact that even Nullifier bubbles, something meant to counter WF abilities, can be destroyed by damage based abilities is why the meta is so boring. It's the reason why people can just ability spam through everything, except arbitrations
@@Solvernia "it makes the gameplay more engaging" you LITERALLY are forced to mindlessly nuke rooms. That's the whole fcking problem here. Who gives a damn if 1 unit buffs trash mobs? Just pump enough damage and everyone will die anyway. Warframe has a DPS problem, period.
@@AnymMusic You're not forced to do anything dude play how you want. And I'm talking about Eximus and nullifiers as well as enemies that give out overguard like the healing ancients and murmur wardens. Those guys make it so you can't just CC everyone in the area non stop and you have to target them. It's not souls level difficulty but it spices up the situation
This conversation pops up all the time about this frame. Rev is fine. He is the "newb tube" of Warframe. He is a strong reliable frame that new players can get early. He gives new players that missile launcher they need to start really diving deep into content. He helps carry low rank accounts into late content to start getting the things they need. DE knows exactly what he is. The reason long term players do not understand is that they forget new players are even a thing. They want to balance the game around the later play they experience. DE is not stupid, they put Rev where he is on purpose, just because Rev is stupid OP in our eyes, doesn't mean he isn't necessary for players that just hit Cetus. Hell being invincible isn't even important anymore. IDK why all the vets want to "fix" Rev, he's fine. He is exactly what new accounts need to get them to real power later.
and his ability looks cooler than something like rhino, his base fashion is also great, that'll excite new players more
Yeah, i rather have my teammates being invincible all the time than being on the ground all the time, it's not like Rev disrupts your game like other OP frames do, you just have someone who never dies, that's it.
@@ThunderJunkOC “Revenant's main blueprint is awarded upon completion of the Mask of the Revenant quest, which is unlocked after reaching Rank 2 - Observer with The Quills.”. I think considering that new player/early game is a pretty hard stretch.
@@3thirtyDr3amz How long do you think it takes for a new player to get to The War Within? I'll give you a pass cause for us it took 10 years. Been playing since beta. New players don't have to wait though. They will not only have Rev but other hard to get frames locked behind standing in the first 40-50 hours. They won't even know wtf Steel Path is before they get those frames. Forget everything you remember about our experience. New players don't have to wait 10 years for a plot line. It's already there. It took us forever to grind rep cause we did it one at a time. New players can grind all the factions each day. They fly through content unlike what we vets went through.
In fairness Nova isn't suggesting a complete nerf to revenant. Honestly I like the idea of updating his 1, 2 and 4 because then he would be tanky and have a play style that has an actual identity rather than don't die and shoot gun.
NovalUmbra: Limbo is probably one of the best Warframes for Void Cascade due to his Control
NovalUmbra: Void Cascade is best used with damage due to how little value control is in Void Cascade compared to damage.
@@The57912 so limbo’s ability to completely smother a map in CC let’s you focus nearly the entire rest of your kit on the damage, and also has a really easy way to convert all that CC into damage using his augment
xP I specifically said outside of a "few warframes"
Who says Limbo has no damage?
@@ChozenBardoUmbra Rift Torrent augment go BRRRRRRRRRRRRT
I believe that. Cascade loves to spawn thrax directly on top on of exolizers. Its unfair by design.
babe wake up new nova vid (i’m falling asleep while watching this not out of boredom but out of sleep deprivation)
It looks to me that current revenant is training wheels to harder content. Players use mesmer skin to carry them into higher level content while they farm up better damage weapons. Then, because his kit is ultimately boring, players move on to other frames when their damage output catches up. You noted that revenant is the most played frame, but (1) wukong is a very close second and (2) you can see in the 2023 MR stats that revenant's use starts to fall off around MR 20. That jives with what I see in harder content. [EDIT to add] The MR data is fascinating. Many frames go up in usage toward the top of the MR scale. Khora, Saryn, Titania, Wisp, and some others all jump to around 4% of usage for high MR players. It suggests very different needs at higher levels.
I don't play Revenant much but he's my number 1 when it comes to playing content that I don't like.
As a person that got Rev before the rework but after eximus were introduced in game, the problem with mesmer skin isn't that it's op now, it's that so many frames aren't end game viable without absurd investment in them. Even without invulnerability, rev is perfectly fine for most of the star chart and SP star chart. It's a few missions and eximus heavy missions like Arbitrations and Sorties that truly require that 1 sec invulnerability. The real problem is the people that play for the necessary hours to reach lvl 9999 enemies. Most players never go that far, hell, the most most people will ever see is 1000-1500 in the Duviri circuit. But because most of the people that do make content and test their frames and builds against max level certain frames are considered way more viable than others. Not really true for how far most people play, but that's how it goes.
I moved to Rev from Wukong because DE broke his clone, Excal Umbra and specters for a while. Wukong went from doing around x2 the damage to having a dead ability. And I can assure you, Revenant did not need invulnerability for the star chart at the time, or for most of the SP star chart. The problem is that without that 1 sec there are missions he can't do, and with it he's basically the second coming Innaros - or whould he be the third because of Innaros Prime? There is nothing that can be done to the rest of his kit that will make people reconsider them if they're currently not using those abilities because with that 1 sec invulnerability he's immortal in pretty much all content the game has to offer - and unlike Innaros who needs a lot of investment in Plains arcanes to be immortal, he only needs you to pres 2 every once in a while; might as well rename Mesmer Skin to God Mode. You don't need to use his other abilities because his 2 is that good. And if you nerf his 2 he suddenly becomes unusable in at least some content in game. So again, the problem isn't his mesmer skin, the problem is the eximus and the CC meta from before them.
That being said, Jackal, SP Jackal, Duviri circuit and DC SP Jackall and Razorback can in fact strip him of his entire Mesmer Skin Stack so it's not like he's completely invulnerable.
Circuit Jackal has been patched to not strip abilities anymore. tbh they should keep it, but change AI to stop Jackal from spamming radial slams 5-10 times in a row.
@@lunarezlycablood1838 When was that if you recall?
I used Revenant the other day for an Arby's run. I forgot how fun it feels to be practically invincible
Oh boy my 5am brainrot
We both know we didn't actually go to bed, instead one of us brain rotted on shorts and tik tok, while the other was mashing their head against photoshop trying to find a good thumbnail or else he'd fall asleep and forget about it the next morning.
Lobdodimized
@@NovaUmbral I was goon maxxing so your wrong 🤓
@@ShiroNature 🤨
@@NovaUmbral do you exomew?
Personally I think he is fine. If you want to turn your brain off and play there's nothing wrong with that. Sometimes that's what I want to do as well but for people who don't like him just don't use him. I will say he is a bit of a problem for DE cause they have to design things knowing he is in the game. He's not the only frame that can easily survive to level cap. Let's not forget the queen herself Octavia who does the exact same thing. The only difference is she has to crouch a bit but her damage and buffing potential are insane. As a matter of fact, all invisibility frames have it just as easy but no one comments on Loki even though not only does he have invisibility but an augment for switch teleport that makes him invincible. Ash has always been known for his endurance ability as well and is pretty easy. Even Ivar's has no issues but people just complain about more blatant things even though to be real Octavia is just better than revenant in my opinion. Infinite scaling damage like rev, extreme survivability like rev, ability to share said survivability with the team like rev with augment, but unlike rev has other buffs for the team and finally even if you take away invisibility she has resonator which literally deletes the enemies ai. Her passive gives her energy back and with no mods can be used to take on steel path. With just a little duration for comfort she goes to level cap no problem but she technically doesn't need it.
Tl;Dr. Revenant is good but there are plenty of frames that can survive super easy and because of weapons power creep can kill fast too. I don't think he is a problem.
I think the issue is the invisibility frame requires a bit more work. New-mid players probably don't have viable mods yet. Most of those player prob will never know of Loki switch augment until later. Also rev don't teach you how build...So it's like why put all this effort in when u can press 2.
This is why we are never getting challenging content like raids, we would need to have enemies that bypass these immortality abilities for it to work.
So either mesmer gets a change where the protection isnt guaranteed or make enemies bypass that.
I’m too brain dead for even revenant. I use hildryn instead for brain dead tanking.
I think the problem being overlooked is that he more than just survives super easy he effectively cannot die, and unlike a frame like valkyr who's cost for it is possibly exploding when she runs into a nullifier or a constant need to maintain energy, he's both safe at all times while mesmer is up and it's reapplication is incredibly easy.
More over, abilities like prowl inform your interactions with the rest of your kit, mesmer skin just doesn't provide enough incentive to not just turn it on and ignore the rest of your kit
@@ParagonGoetiathere is "The fragmented one" boss that can shut down abilities but that's only 1 enemy you'll face one time
A guy in your squad that can't die doesn't harm your enjoyment of the game.
But you forget the point that rev players think they are imortal
Go on a lvl cap cascade with randoms
I can for sure tell
The player that will die first, is the rev player
Every
Single
Time
People dont know how to play him properly
@@Ssian_ not all rev players are braindead, but part of them are really dumb some times (the ones using nautilus prime just to drag nullifiers in front of them and lose all the mesmer skin especially)
@@random4718 They dont even know how to counter nullis
Like
Shoot the drone on top bro
@@Ssian_ wdym play him properly subsume 4th use mesmer everytime it runs out it's not a difficult concept
@@Arctic_roach That is the point
People dont recast mezmer skin
Or refill charges
I once heard Pablo comment how Nyx is hard to balance around her invulnerability because she can become too overpowered really easily...well, I guess Revenant's mesmer skin proves his point!
Rev can die
Not a problem with revenant, the problem is with enemy overguard. It was a mistake from jump and still is, enemies should never have full immunity, just resistance. DE made CC useless and that's their mistake.
I think it's not necessarily bad to have a few enemies immune to CC. But just a few, not the entire room of non-stop spawning regular mobs with tons of both health and damage. CC immunity is way too overpowered to give to everyone.
How to play revenant like a pro
Press 2 and
🛌 🚪🚶
You forgot "shoot Torid Incarnon." part.
@@tomasz9429as Revenant main I use Dual Tox
@@tomasz9429😂😂😂
2 and 4 with roar subsume.
I mainly play snorevenant, I love it.
@@ImSoBready same
Revenant was my first prime , and honestly i love it, it gives you that immortality feeling adding a huge boost to the “fantasy of power” that is warframe, i confess i used it a lot while i was learning to play ,after reach steel path i started to use other frames, i had enough knowledge about modding system to do it.
I would honestly love it if DE said "fck it" and rebalanced the whole game a bit more away from the overt damage bs we have now, cause like Trib said, DE's fix for mindless damage pumping..... is DEALING. MORE. DAMAGE.
bring back the knightmare thumbnail
cursed
Yes
My big problem with Revenant isn't his mesmer skin making him a one button frame... Its the simple fact that enemies affected by 1 doesn't count as an enemy meaning you won't trigger any arcane nor be included to kill count in missions like exterminate,
It's been months since I last used him so I don't know if this is still a thing.
Edit: Atleast killing them with his mist should still count as a kill
On the flip side you don't have to kill the thralls to end a defenses wave so silvee linings I guess
What nice timing, literally got revenant today
read my post from a different comment don't believe the hype and mod carefully
I pick Revenant when I need someone reliable to back the team up. He won't carry the Archimedea (his CC is mediocre at best) but he will act as a solid safeguard.
I think CC can come back by introducing new enemy types in the same vein of Arbitration drones (it's hardly a new idea since it's been years now that players are using Arbi drones for inspiration to try to shake things up). Imagine a new kind of units in each factions that greatly buff his allies and provide them invicibility (and NOT ability immunity like Arbi drones), while staying hidden behind them (and maybe even able to summon even more allies). Players would be unable to destroy the invicible and highly buffed crowd around them and should rely on CC to make their way toward the protector to be able to wipe everything.
revenant with torid incarnon goes hard thanks DE
I came back to the game the very week Rev Prime was released. Farmed 5 sets of him in one evening, made a ton of plat, he is my 4th most played frame, after Yareli, Nyx, and Excalibur(sic!), because back then it was just convenient pushing content with him, not having to worry about anything :) I'm currently crafting Torid, and soon I will join the Rev+Torid Incarnon gang, sending a clear message to DE that they should really look at the old frames and start a process of comprehensive upgrades for everything old.
Just in time for Destiny 2 : Episode Revenant
Was looking for this lol
His (non Mesmer crutch) kit has the whole problem of relying on consistent thralls. But having to specifically walk up and tap 1 on a thrall if his existing ones get killed (which his 3 and 4 will basically immediately do). Its slow and awkward and cludgy. If the 2 reflect auto-thralled (or even the 4 could get an augment of some sort) it would immediately open him up.
On the other side, he's another casualty of over implementing Overguard (and the other increasingly large numbers of randomly CC immune enemies). The mesmer change was specifcally in reply to Overguarded units with automatic weapons being able to immediately bulldoze him. So Overguard is entirely responsible for that overtune. And on the flip side it also disrupts his entire thrall mechanic.
It surprises me how many people play rev over say dante who has near the same immortality while providing way more
I totally see what you are saying. The reason though is that it requires you paying attention to more buffs and using more button. You also need to kill things to be unkillable with Dante at level cap and that means doing more. Revenant just presses one button and he’s good. Dante takes more work but has more to offer.
@@pnutbteronbwlz9799 it's barely more work, you should be killing shit anyways so it kind of just plays itself.
@@stanman3192 Well first of all you have to press more buttons in correct combinations (and have the energy). But also you need to have weapons that can help you kill and to kill to survive. Revenant just survives, even if you can’t kill. I would call that less work. Not much, but enough to sway many people. Never underestimate how much the average gamer prefers to do less to succeed.
@@pnutbteronbwlz9799 that's fair, but very disappointing that people enjoy lobotomizing themselves to that degree.
Hate me but I don't believe revenant should be in the game in the way he is right now. It makes the game unbelievably boring for new players so they quit. It promotes boring gameplay
Haven't played WF for a while, but I never thought Revenant would become the most played warframe at any time, that's wild. When I was last playing, plenty of people were still hung up on Inaros and didn't seem to understand, including some _other_ content creators.
Inaros was heavy copium the playerbase slowly realised he was garbage all along and he got reworked.
Revenant on the other hand went from his Mesmer skin being insta deleted under automatic fire (likely the version you know) to lasting a set duration upon being triggered making him immortal.
@@Hellothere-ss4jq Yeah you're right, when I last played him there were times when I would have to switch to operator to re-locate and recast and/or rely on magus lockdown for some quick CC. The more recent changes to mesmer skin seems crazy, I'm a little surprised DE did it.
I think we first need to compare if mesmer skins violates any of the 3 nerf points DE has (which luckily we were just reminded of today!)
Afk, Disruptive, Dominant.
Afk and disruptive can be immediatly tossed. Mesmer skin doesnt finish the mission for you, and a team mate not dying is not at all disruptive.
Thus we're left with the final question: Does mesmer skin cause revenant to reach a level of dominance where people feel like they have to play him?
If we consider unkillable frames, there's a lot. A lot of them, however, require a bit more concious thought than just pressing 2 every 30 or so seconds. Harrow needs to be aware of shield values. Gauss needs to work to keep redline high (which, tbf, is the entire concession of the kit) and be aware of damage types like toxin. Zephyr/mesa need to he aware of AOE damage and keeping out of melee. Etc. Etc. So a frame simply refusing to die isnt necessarily a cause for dominance. So why the high play rate?
He's easy.
Press 2 and then go do gun play. And to be entirely honest, if youre able and willing to utilize other survival methods, other frames can outperform him offensively. Ironically him having weak abilities outside of mesmer keeps him in line because his entire identity is simply refusing to die. If you dont need that, pick anything else.
first wukong, now rev, the curse of the immortal frame lives on
And if you nerf Reveant the number 1 tank role will simply go to number 2 tank and people will play number 2 tank.
Then there is me wondering why the fuck Trinity's blessing got nerfed like 5 times.
I hate how revenenant mains brag about "oh look at me i can go endgame content endurance runs etc etc". Dude shut up, you have a button that says: "this idiot can not die". You don't need all of that defence mechanics, control, stealth, or any skill from player. You just press fuqin button and you can't die.
I pray the DE they will change it someday. Yeah, people like play him because it's simple, but i think it should not be THAT simple to acces hard content. You should put some more effort. More then "ok, i press 1 button, let's go"
As a rev main, I agree with what you say. He aint bad in what he dose, but he feels like old wukong where all he really did was not die. In no terms I am saying he is bad. His 1 just dosen't work well as a cc since you can kill them, 3 and 1 combo work but only for mobs that do(acolytes and others just don't work as well), and his 4 just feels like hildryn's 4 without a big boom. I would be happy to see changes to his 134 anyday, and accept any nerfs/buffs if he ends up getting any.
Revenant has become the new Inaros
yessir time to warframe drown out my brain at 4 in the morning!!!!
the problem with revenant is that it spoils players way too much, immortality numbs every other sense, once you start playing with other frames you keep thinking you're immortal, so you keep playing as a revenant, poor mobility, mid to below aiming, no track of your abilities's timers and duration, nothing else
you stop trying new stuff, don't use actual proper frames, you just keep stuck there with your immortality often being a deadweight like a inaros, immortality dosent bring anything to the table
10:30 this is why I love Dagath so much. Her ease of use isn't as high as Revenant's, requiring an augment to achieve her S tier survivability, and the functionality that augment gives facilitates active gameplay shifts. Sure, while you're invincible, you're just a gun-zerker. But once that buff wears off, it becomes a race to identify and kill a large enough group in as fast a time as possible to reduce your cooldown and get your invincibility state back. Had it not been for that, I surely would still be playing Revenant as my go-to invincible frame.
My personal problem with Revenant is that I'm annoyed by how OFTEN I meet him in missions. Like literally any second or third mission is gotta have a Revenant in my team. Not a big deal until he just zooms across a room with 4 and kills the entire room. As a more casual player that likes to try frames and make them work and be fun, it's hard to ignore it. Like come on, I wanna have fun too. Also, for some reason, I found Rev mainers to be more selfish and arrogant than anyone else (perhaps, after realizing what Rev's capable of, they find other frames pretty much useless and people using them more like a drag (tbh applicable to Wukong mainers as well)).
And after that seing someone using nisch or mediocre frame feels like a breath of fresh air.
Then play solo
“Reverent is a one button pony”
Chroma: Welcome to the club.
What? Chroma pops his 2 and 3 for even moar armor
Chroma has more usage. He can provide different buffs for his team and make them tanky. He's definitely not just a one button pony.
@@Benzinilinguine And roar and rhino skin are still superior and there are like 10 other frames who do weapon frame better.
“Master of the elements” is Chroma’s thing but Larvos does it 10 times better. Not even getting into the fact spectral scream is just used to switch Chroma’s ward power and his 4th power his “ultimate” is literally pointless. Only use for effigy is double credits from profit taker but why go through all that when the index is a thing and easier than ever from the damage/defense changes.
Chroma needs a reworks yes including vex armor cause again why use it and having to ramp it up when roar and even Valkry’s war cry are just activate and go to town.
Now with Guardian armor, chroma is now press 3 and yeah youre done
Yeah and then maybe activate your ward and occasionally cycle buffs
And maybe use effigy if you run profit taker to get your bonus 12 and a third credits (i dont so i use nourish like a loser lmao)
@@ezthicc4296 Makes them tanky by pressing the one button he already presses. Yeah and that’s even if you have a max range Chroma and even then trying to keep allies within the range is tedious at best. I know I have the papa Chroma build and it’s nice but trying to stay within range as said tedious.
Plus Dante is a thing. You know the guy giving 15k plus overguards out like they are candy.
rev chad, go immo
The thing is, if you want to make a rhino as allrounder you can build him accordinately and it will feel awesome.If you ever want to play revenant as allrounder - his control abitilies suck in a way the are NOT COMFORTABLE to use. You play a coop, enthral an enemy with 1rst skill,then team kills it and you`re not getting any of it spreading to other enemies. Main problem is not his abilities,but the way they apply and that`s sad...
God I used to watch you all the time and suddenly just stopped getting your vids recommended. They've only gotten better, and now I'm gonna go watch the rest of the ones I missed.
I think the key for Revenant is to make his abilities more flexible. He's currently great for more casual players, but allowing him to be built around his other abilities would make him more fun overall.
I haven't watched the video yet but im assuming this is mostly gonna be about mesmer skin. ngl I subsumed away mesmer for roar so I can run around with reave instead and shieldgate with rev.
EDIT: I cant spell.
EDIT 2: Mesmer skin moment. Honestly I do like the idea of thralls having a greater prevalence in his gameplay, but i feel like all you would really need to do for that is just increase the cap on how many he can have at once, and maybe reduce how many stacks of mesmer you get at base. IMO the problem isnt mesmer's invul itself, but more just how forgiving it is compared to most other survivability abilities.
Also thralls has ridiculous levels of threat level, so enemies will aggro on them, and ignore everybody else, it's a great not only for your survival, but for defense objectives, but also are almost impossible to make good use of it because your teammates will probably just kill your thralls, so making your thralls invulnerable to team damage would be great
@@traficantededolly9922 I like that idea, maybe tie it to the thrall pact augment perhaps, would give it some use besides from a generic damage buff that doesn't do a whole lot.
Being "Easy to play" or "I'm invincible, lol" isn't really an argument to leave Revenant as busted as he is.
He's a mess of ideas which never should happen in the first place. Voruna being the same to be honest. DE seem really confused as to where they want to go with the game. Do you want complicated warframes? Or deadbrain ones? Do you want damage nukes? We have been playing this game for years and DE still don't seem to know how thier playerbase operates...
Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying we should only have warframes like Gauss where his passive is longer and more complicated than some frames entire kits. But power in games is fun when you're engaged in it, not mashing one button and sadly warframe goes in this direction : /
Yeah yeah Rev is immortal sleeping frame
His 2 is way too overpowered, 1 is boring and useless and 4 need something more, I get it
But hating him bc of that is kinda stupid ngl (he's no Titania with Thermal Sunder)
So i feel this hate is stupid and unnecessary, he's popular and casual yes, but he doesn't interrupt anyone's gameplay 😕
Rev players in my experience can hinder from being extremely dumb and slow, even in level cap I have revenants that manage to go down. Revenant just inherently makes people worse at the game
@@stanman3192Cause people dont replenish their mezmer skin charges
They forgot to recast or get nullified
And dont use Entrall+reave
1 is not useless its good crowd control
You're missing the point. Imagine if DE release a warframe that is a literal 3D default model with no skin and it only has 1 (forget about 4) ability that kills enemies in a 60m radius not matter ehp, armour, overguard. Is it OP? Yes, it's good, it's broken. Is it a good design? You tell me.
That is Revenant's twin, just instead of infinite inmortality, he has infinite dmg.
@@FSniffer But rev has infinite damage too
I feel like Revenant is a new version of what Wukong was before his rework.
I very much despise frames like revenant, but it sadly is necessary for players to play this game (which I find upsetting because imo that means the devs don’t respect the player’s intelligence).
As an Umbra main, I'll slander the sentient all day
This is practically the Rhino meta all over again.
Maybe bringing synergy between mesmer skin and Rev’s 1 & 4 could fix the boring game play he has, without nerfing him into the ground.
Change mesmer skin so there is a boosted mesmer skin charge that gives the 1 second invincibility that is earned through interacting with the 1 & 4. Killing thralls and/or taking damage while in Danse Macabre stacks or trigger the boosted skin charge.
Then the builds would be a little more involved favoring duration and energy sustain slightly more than the current “push 2 for 15 seconds of invulnerability that never decays”.
I find playing revenant incredibly boring since its impossible to die. Not as boring as afk frames like octavia or khora tho... So not bottom of the barrel
Revenant was a victim of poor decision making on DE part over how to make the game more challenging (Punishing CC because ???)
But people apparently prefer him as he is right now so i guess everything is fine right?
Wait, I just noticed. You switched Camera Shoulders on your videos
People kept complaining too much about it :/
Honesty his augment was the worst thing DE did.
👶🏻
Thralls need to count as allies. Enthrall is essentially useless because everything you enthrall dies instantly due to still taking team damage. The augment as well gives you a benefit for having lots of living thralls, which is impossible to do. In theory it's supposed to spread around and give you an army, but in practice every Thrall dies in less than a second and there is litel to no spread (so little you won't even notice, since again they will all just dies like everything else). The pillar mechanic is also essentially worthless as you just move away from it immediately (it's so underwhelming, many players don't even realize it exists). The entire skill is pointless.
I hope when we get to try calibans rework we can see the potential revenant could have with a more eidolon style kit in the possible future
Dance macabre revamp idea:
The ultimate could have a tap/hold cast to select from the current Dance macabre or a new ultimate: revenant can open the sky over his point of aim releasing a swirling carrousel of sentient energy, all enemies hit by the beams receive true damae equivalent to 25% to their total hp as an initial contact damage, subsecuent hits from the sentient beams will deal damage equal to the enemy weakness and upon deat caused by the beams damage or DOT inflicted, they charge revenant with a surge of sentient energy that boosts his energy regeneration, upon the end of this ability duration, Revenant releases a sentient energy field from his current position, that creates a field that grants the same buffs from the energy pillars you are suggesting. Allies entering the field will receive the buff and an additional 60% damage type equal to the enemy weakness that decays overtime afterl eaving the field. Enemies entering the field have their abilities shutd down and are unable to regenerating shields, health or using their abilities, receiving a 5% of their total hp as true damage every second.
may Pablo hears this and may he bless us all with a surprise light rework....
I can't say there's anything bad about Rev. You're trading off fun and room clearing powers for the best survivability in the game, with the augment even being able to support your team. He's a great boob frame. Or if you just want to not worry about surviving
i did not played enough with him to have a solid advice, but i do wish they made CC better and more desirable, bring in the beefy units but in less number, i really dont like the KPM meta
I really miss some of those old corpus tile sets.
I usually play support revenant in Elite Archimedean to help keep my team alive.
In regards to changing the game to gear it towards more control play styles, my 2 cents is to make CC abilities deplete over guard faster or instantaneously. It doesn't hinder dmg or survivability but it's enough to bring control up to the same lvl as them.
This Defeats the Point of Why Overguard Existed in The First Place. 🤔
Immortality isn’t a problem nowadays, you can make any Warframe immortal (part of why Revenant isn’t as cracked as some say), problem is he does it incredibly easily and lazily
Remember scarlet spear when Limbo of all warframe actual got more usage for his cc? Then they just banished him to the shadow realm and he haven't recovered since, and all forms of cc nowadays is straight up useless outside of lvl 30 missions
But even then, how would they change it now? Straight up not ki**ing enemies hinders your progress and is counter productive
also Revenant has some really fucking cool looking fashion frame stuff and I mainly play warframes that I find
cool looking sooo
edit: revenant lowk has infinity too which is awesomesauce
valkyr: "Am i a joke to u"
Sometimes I just wanna shut off my brain and do late game content
Revenant does that for me
Me go rev
Me not die
I got a video essay request: can you do the history of the stalker?
Oh boy! He finally got off steel path level cap!!
I work 55+ hrs a week, have a 6 year old. only really get to play warframe for 3 hours or so 1-2 days a week, so I can enjoy new content casually with gaz's revenant zombie build with torrid incarnon 😅 best prime access I've bought.
Yeah using energy to be invincible is too strong.
Sweats profusely in valkyr gameplay.
Yeah but Ancient disruptor Aura will get Valkyr killed in steel path. Any enemy under its aura all drain her energy.. through her invincibility.
@@KorpsyKloun yep, freaking hate nulifers. I built the miter to help my valk. Doesn't stop me from running around a corner and a nullifer just *happens* to be there. Every time i swear...
4:05 OMEGA STRIKERS MUSIC 🔥
The issue with revenent is he just makes the game trivial with a single button press and no work behind it. Going into some new higher level content for the first time (lets say netracells for example)? Bring revenent who just 100% truly ignores the survivability aspect of it. Now apply that with all current and eventual new content and you see where you can have issues. Now, theres CC which gives you some control of a situation but youre never 100% in control (stray bullet, toxin cloud, random turret, etc...) especially with the new eximus units the way they are. Removing the conflict from a story makes it boring, lame, or uninteresting so why want that in a warframe? You have to allow conflict with something which in turn brings a variety of builds and scenarios, not the option to just opt out of it free of charge.
"Helminth flexibility" is such a funny way of saying a dogshit moveset.
To me having 1 million iron skin it's much better than mesmer skin
Bcuz you have to work for it and not press 1 button
Now that iron skin is overguard, sure! Before that, lol. No.
Make his skills apply an enthralled status effect on enemies like they added tau for calibslan
Imma be real when I initially got rev I didn’t understand Mesmer skin so I subsumed over it with protea dispensary using Danse macabre and enthral and reave to deal percent health damage and was gaming
Now waiting for that Nova video
Also can somebody get DE to get us war shield like rygar lol, each with different mechanics for different enemy mechanics for said shield type. A weapon mechanic that has harder enemy type that drop their weapon in game for limited use but we get a skill tree for talent that we gain xp for each weapon type and can be moded for in a arsenal. Their weapon damage scales of weapon xp experience during combat. Gain mastery rank from weapon opens a unique finisher animation for that weapon. That mastery rank has a random chance of mutating that enemy type into a mini boss...WARFRAME
Hey, Umbral, do you think you could share how your build works and show what mods you used for this revenant in a separate video on your second channel? Also, love your fashion.
I like the effort put into developing a history of Revenant but I can't say I agree with the overall theme.
There are plenty of Warframes where, if you remove 1 ability, it kind of becomes useless. This is less of a Revenant issue and more of a Warframe issue. And even then, I don't think its that much of an issue.
Warframes, like Ash, have the best defensive ability in the game. Nothing even touches how powerful invisibility is with how the AI reacts to it. Ash's augment gives you +150% crit rate on top of that and its an instant use ability that doesn't interfere with shooting, reloading, or rolling. You can replace any of his other abilities with whatever you need and you wouldn't really lose anything. Its honestly crazy to me how invis Warframes are being slept on.
additions like archons hunt, steel path, and level cap activities causes abilities like mesmer skin to become so incredible because its not affected by the snowballing difficulty of content. armor adjust was good but not enough to fix some of the most lackluster abilities and frames out there
Still think loki is better than ash
Banish on loki is broken
You can easily remove smokescreen in place of arcane tricky with bladestorm, or not running either of them, I would actually argue bladestorm being a tad bit more important due to melee crescendo these days. IMO
Now this isn’t to say smokescreen Isn’t an integral part of Ash but because his kit has many moving parts to his design, he has multiple outlets of power that work smoothly. (Armor strip, Crit buff, invis, crescendo and melee combo , slash etc)
Well yeah the only thing that can stop him is enemies that disable abilities.
But because of that, they'll never buff his bad 1 and 4, or give him tau damage, or make his 3 make sense (why does his 3 heal him when he's always invuln lmao)
solution: no enemy should be 100% immune to any effect
Other warframes can be immortal but they require more than 2 braincells to use. Revenant is just press 2 and you are unkillable. Even true damage that goes past mesmer skin stop when you are at 2hp. With either rolling guard or cast speed archon shards it also has a 100% uptime with no room for vulnerableility on recast.
If I'm being honest i barely have time to play warframe and often take ling breaks from the game due to factors in my life and I'm telling you, if not for revenant I wouldn't be able to get back into content from these new updates, I get people want him to have a bit more to his kit but he's a frame I a busy guy who can barely make time to play the game needs
Bro really just pitched a revenant buff…
I'm a bit... hesitant about all the changes coming in tbh. Revamps seem to be a thing or otherwise reworks. Nova is notably, a huge revamp.
I have him unmodded
I just don't use him much unless I really wanna turn my brain off. Saying a lot since I love playing a super fast rhino, another nearly effortlessly strong warframe.
Tbh, if it gets people to play the game, they'll find other things to like sooner or later. Especially if it catches their attention.
Hot take: Mesmer skin _having_ invincibility frames isn’t the problem, the ability having a _full second_ of invincibility with no questions asked per charge is. A lower base for that stat (my off-the-cuff suggestion is .25-.5 sec) and ability duration scaling would at least pry some build investment out of Revenant.
The reason why they added the 1 second invulnerability to it was cus eximus units were shredding Mesmer skin which would make you have to spam it in order to get any survivability outside of his big shield pool, this was also before shield gating was a thing
@@foregivensoul and they should revert it back/make it a build option with .25s base moddable with duration, or fix overguard to not completely negate CCs other than cold and bugged interactions like the recent wukong celestial stomp.
Imo he shouldn't be Mesmer the frame, he should be REVANENT commander of an army of thralls that boost the team in some way.
@@Cross1nsan1ty or a better way to do it is make synergy with his first ability where mesmer skin doesnt get CC in the form of a stun but instead still gets the invulnerability, 0.25s base would be too little to be worth using where it could be 0.5s instead but unaffected by mods and you start out with about 4 charges base, moddable, then build more charges up to a certain hard cap from either your thralls dying or your thralls killing enemies while mesmer skin is active. Could also have something like if you have mesmer skin active all your active thralls divide all incoming damage between themselves and when they take damage will increase their damage for a short time. Even could make it to where if you have mesmer skin active and use your first ability on an ally it will give them damage resistance and increased damage whenever they get hit which the damage increase could be a moddable value.
I mean Revenant could definitely use some changes to his abilities to make him not only used for Mesmer skin
The Problem is the Game... Not Revenant.... Or Did we learn Nothing from the *Wukong* Nerfs ? 🤔
@@lookalike4805 I'm sorry did I say nerf him? No. I said change his abilities some that way things like Danse macabre and Reave are more useful in day to day, as it stands those are the 2 abilities you get rid of for helminth
@@alexberube5269 il Stick with my First Response. 👀
I'll use his signature gun, but not Revenant specifically. I know that Mesmer skin is literally the best defensive skill, but it pretty much made him Rhino/Pre-Buffed Wukong 2.0 with no extra steps like:
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getting hit at the right time, using ironclad charge, activating armor arcanes like Guardian or Ultimatum... I don't like Revenant, not because of his ability kit or aesthetic, but he's just too easy to play & makes the rest of the roster feel -unfair- bad to use (including Volt) 😔
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As a Gauss main I am both terrified yet dissappointed of my fellow Warframe, getting too much praise for one, simple, click. We all know that he deserved a buff in the past but did he really deserve that much?🗿
im sorry but shortening invulnerability to invul is unforgivable
Revenant is the most played Warframe but it's not the strongest, even with his massive ease of use. Rhino is arguably a stronger Warframe that fell from popularity despite getting actually stronger with the introduction of new game mechanics.
The only problem with Revenant is that his ceiling is basically the only thing he is used for. The Mesmer Skin build isn't "a build" that you use because you don't want or can't spend time and resources on him. It's literally the only reason you play Revenant. You're not speccing on a specific ability because you can basically.
In addition, ease of use for new and casual players should exists, but that shouldn't actually apply to the meta and endgame content, it's just dumb. It actually hinders squads sometimes, I always have a pregiudice if my squad contains a Revenant Prime with the Torid.
The solution is, as you suggested, revamp his abilities so that his whole kit can be built to do much more than just Mesmer Skin. THEN make Mesmer Skin dependent on a good skill management of his whole kit while still providing enough ease of use for casual content.
One word. Overguard
Revenant is a reflection of how many players actually care about level cap. Saryn is a reflection of damage overload. Octavia is a reflection of bad playstyle yet she is just as comfortable as rev in some cases. Moral is its alot of frames with a purpose. Try understanding the purpose of something rather than hate on it. We all have are type of play styles. Some of us learn all play styles. I never understood why i would hate on someone choice to pick something over something. Its they choice. Like let them cook how they want... Why hate a stat like most used. If your fav frame became most used,how would you feel if players was dishing out so much hate towards the fact your frame is damn good. Rev was my fav before he became popular just because i enjoy survivability. I enjoy tank characters in many games. Im also a support main doe mainly. Anyways i came from destiny 1 and was a titan main. You following me like i get movement plus tank mode made easy only thing left if finding out how to build weapons. Omg thats actually a thing. See most players can play rev but i have seen so many not be able to kill anything at a certain point. If you see a rev in level cap doin damage respect that real talk cause its really no different than ash. Ash is basically the same just different cup of tea. (Note i love all frames except 2) (Inaros and wukong) But i will pick them up. I dont hate them just dont love them.
(Oh yeah i barely play my mains today. I got to play everything this great game gave me)
imagine hating on revenant, souls players are infecting other games lol
I agree, it's ok to have no hands and enjoy videogames.
I know, I will neve quite understand people hating an easy to play character that performs well.
what does it have to do with souls players?
@@ThatPicaroyea I was gonna say, not really a souls problem. New members of that community are making them looking bad.
@@Clown_the_Clown Easy to play =/= awesome to play. For example, Atlas is mainly a 2 button play-style. You petrify and punch. It is not hard to play and it performs well with a good stat stick. It feels way cooler to play Atlas than Rev though... disregarding the carpel tunnel punch thing.
Similarly with the overguard frames. Rhino, Ember, Nezha, Kullervo and frost all have parts of their kit that simply make you feel like a badass... Rev, to me at least, just feels a bit bland.