ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 ธ.ค. 2024
- Wrestling is without a doubt the best base for MMA. We have seen many UFC fighters like Khabib Nurmogomedov dominate fights with it. In today's video however, we address the ways it compares to Jiu Jitsu and some issues wrestlers have in MMA and what needs to be implemented in their grappling game in order to be successful in the sport of mixed martial arts.
For business inquires
ytmmache@gmail.com
![ออร่า (AURA) - JUEPAK feat. SARAN | [OFFICIAL MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/RY9j7Lzp-FI/mqdefault.jpg)
For everyone asking if I was joking about Volk beating Islam 50-45 I was. You can definitely make an argument for round 1 being 10-8 for volk so 50-43
bad maths
@@rottencamel3467 didn't think I had to mention rnd 4 was 10-8 volk aswell
@@MMAChe. gotchu
Didn't Islam spend a lot of time controlling Volk from his back? The way I see it, in a serious fight, having someone's back is the best ending position you can have.
@@Docinaplane it doesnt matter if you sit on someones back if you do no damage and every submission is easily defended, so it wasnt really anything significant while he was controlling him
As a former D1 wrestler and Double Black Belt in Jits and Judo. We should get rid of these labels. ITS ALL GRAPPLING, if you love hugging up on sweaty dudes then you are a grappler and defining it as anything else is just going to limit your growth in the sport.
The best technique is to have no technique
Bruce lee
Agree🎉
@@CultureSamurai Yeah, that makes zero sense but sounds pretty. The best technique is the one that's constantly evolving.
But that's a CAREFUL SYNTHESIS of D1 (or equivalent) and BJJ. You have advanced skills in both D1 & in elite BJJ... so you know not all D1 wrestlers are gonna be that good, much less all becoming Division I champs, let's be honest.
You also know STATS: neither D1 alone nor BJJ, alone, is that good in MMA.
I did a WAR AND PEACE posting in MM CHE channel's video --- in his video with the title of HOW BENNY WOULD ABSOLUTELY DESTROY CHARLES .... that he posted 14 or 15 days ago, RIGHT BELOW his comment (to another poster of his) ---- trying to remind him why all his documentation of why Benny was superior to Charles in ADCC, why Benny's being a former ADCC champ several times over.... MEANT NOTHING MUCH IN PARTICULAR in Benny's-then-up-coming fight against Charles...
My argument in that long, winding piece was that MMA, at the UFC at least, Charles BJJ is superior to all others... & that Charles problems, with someone like Islam..... was NOT a deficiency in skills but (#1) a lacking in tactics and (#2) his ultra aggression. But that either or both of things about Charles could be EASILY remedied... and that Benny's more pedigreed BJJ would still not be enough to overwhelm Charles...
In that WAR AND PEACE posting, I also reminded MMA CHE that ZERO of the current champs of the UFC is a D1 wrestling.
I reminded MM CHE that Jon Jones, Aljo, and Islam are the only 3 wrestling based champs, very elite wrestlers.... but that THEY ARE NOT D1 & that they don't even boast any illustrious BJJ pedigree of any kind.
But that, more importantly, the vast majority of current UFC champs are elite strikers with good to elite skills in TDD, in wrestling, and in BJJ... but that their specialties are striking based.
The reality of the matter is, all these endless deep one-word/one-line posters.... from one video to another.... who keep saying, for example, that Colby's D1 wrestling is gonna "rag doll" Leon also are the same 4-year-old crystal ball readers who were 100% sure Usman's high quality D2 wrestling --- good enough to effectively cancer Colby's D1 --- was going to rag doll Leon in the Leon-Usman II & III fights, too.
Some of them bet big, on both times, saying it's "easy money," as Henry Cejudo... and they all lost big. And they will lose even bigger, 3 times in a row, when they bet on "an actual D1 Colby" rag-dolling Leon. That's the problem with deep thinking herd mentality mma fans: ---- they behave and think like easily impressionable 4 year-olds who are still into comic book heroes...
But all the other facts NOTWITHSTANDING --- the lack of D1 wrestlers and touted ADCC champs being MMA champs of the UFC, the largest MMA organization in the world ---- there's also other realities Colby and Usman both having to deal with: in the annals of the UFC's recording keeping, only 2 in 29 fights that someone 35 or older, from Welterweight division down to 125, ever defeated a prime champ, either in "getting back" their belt or in winning it for the first time.
In other words, Usman and Colby ----- both over 35 years of age... close to 36, in fact ---- have around a 7% probability, each, of winning the belt from prime, 31 year-old Leon, who is the most agile, fasted, and a 6'2" solid 190lb of nothing but muscles, with elite Muay Thai, elite TDD, very good wrestling, & very good BJJ.
In addition, Colby is only 5'11" & walking around between 185 and 190. After rehydration, Leon returns to being around 190lb and he is nothing but muscles. He may not be as big as Usman, but Leon is a one of the biggest Welterweights at the UFC. And, again, he's more agile than 99.99% others at 170.
People erroneously think Leon is a decision machine, whereas Usman is a KO artist. FACTS: both Leon and Usman each has 10 SUDDEN-FIGHT-ENDING wins (KOs and/or Subs).
To beat a big, tall, prime, fast, agile, & an all-arounder ELITE striker like Leon, you need more than two aging veterans like Colby and Usman; you need someone equally priming, equally big, equally tall & rangy, & equally strong... with AT LEAST equal skills guys like Shavkat and Khamzat.... who could EASILY finish you standing or on the mat.
Neither Usman nor Colby's BJJ is that good.
@@kiabtoomlauj6249 lotta break down but to simplify for others I think it's a simple equation that leans to success in all aspects of life. Those who solve problems by working backwards will be more equipped to win.
it's almost as if in mixed martial arts you have to mix martial arts to be successful
🤯🤯🤯🤯
Exactly.
Lmao
🤯
99% they go too the ground
wrestlers always making a fight boring af
One dimensional grapplers can only go so far jiu jitsu or wrestling
wdym askren???
Mostly BJJ copersl ike MMA Che can barely get past Amateur MMA circuits
Each of these grappling sports: jiu jitsu, wrestling, and judo, have certain deficiencies and in order to nullify these deficiencies, a good combination of all three is needed for a good grappling base in MMA
Ya
Real
Wrestling is the best base for MMA, emphasis on the word 'BASE'. The whole point is for fighters to build on their wrestling background to be more effective fighters but the problem is most fighters misunderstand this and become too reliant on falling back on their wrestling when shit hits the fan.
Edit: Aljimain Sterling's success can largely be attributed to him taking advantage of the gaping holes that most fighters have when it comes to defensive wrestling.
I wouldn't even say "the best base". Wrestling is just a ruleset. l think these days you could make a ruleset that is an even better base for MMA.
Gaping tee hee...
Young fighters coming up nowadays can't even just have one base. You need to start wrestling, BJJ, and striking and become equally proficient in all of them. You need multiple bases.
Nar this is a misconception that's parroted all the time. You don't need wrestling as the stats show the person who shoots has their backs taken and loses more often than the person defending takedowns. You just need to know how to defend wrestling.
And taking advantage of the horrible ruling about kneeing downed opponents, he intentionally downs himself so he can be touched
You forgot to mention that Chandler also fights stupid to entertain the crowd.
If he's cool with it, I'm absolutely okay with that.
That crowd pays his (and the rest of the UFC's) bills.They're paying for entertainment,not BJJ class.🤷🏿♂️
The advantage that wrestlers has over BJJ is that it is inherently offensive, which consistently has proven to be a more effective strategy than the self defence philosophy of BJJ
Another example of a wrestler doing absolutely nothing with their positional advantage was Usman vs Leon. So much so, Leon was willing to give his back because he knew Usman wasn't a threat from a submission perspective whatsoever. Henry against Aljo as well! Henry and Usman just nut hug, it's crazy. Olivera, Islam, Aljo, Khamzat do a great job of blending the grappling arts for sure. Great video!
Both Usman and Leon are black belts in BJJ
@@eveningstar7812Black belt? Who give them dis? We have to check dat moment.
@@eveningstar7812 yeah that means pretty much nothing lmao khabib is a white belt
@@Mrimperialbeast I’m just saying, calling Usman “just a wrestler” is literally retarded.
@@Mrimperialbeastyeah but he is a black belt in judo
Wrestling translate very well to MMA because wrestlers have really good cardio, grips, strength, have experience cutting weight, have hundreds of matches (used to competition), and have a good grinding mentality. The only thing that doesn’t translate is giving up your back.
Sticking your chin out & low & the front leg stances one dimensional wrestlers take doesn’t translate to mma whatsoever. Life long Wrestling unlike Judo or BJJ ingrains some extremely terrible habits that are very hard to get rid off.
@@DADRB0B55 true that’s why Daniel Cormier, Jon Jones, Dan Henderson, Usman, Colby, Couture, Cejudo, Woodley, Hughes, TJ Dillashaw, Cain Velasquez, and many others couldn’t translate to MMA very well 😂
@@DADRB0B55 wrestling is the best base for mma..people still argue against this in 2023?
@@DADRB0B55 sped
Jon Jones isn’t a wrestler, that’s an insult to Jones he is the most well rounded martial artist on the planet except maybe DJ, also look up any wrestler vs judo video the wrestler always losses. Khabib even explained Judo is a way more tougher sport to actually be good at vs wrestling. Hendo has been beaten by Belfort twice, who is a Judoka & BJJ black belt even lost to the Karate boy. Woodley is more of striker, Couture lost to a 2 different Karate bois. Usman & Colby are legit fair play, those the only 2 you got
I think a reason Makachev and Khabib are so great at all grappling styles is because they trained in sambo which pretty much merges all of that stuff.
This is something I've been talking with people about and seeing more commonly in the MMA community, how grappling can't be one dimensional anymore. I think me and a lot of other people can agree that something like Sambo is gaining traction due to its hybrid "Judo/Wrestling" mix.
Your exactly right bro, that’s why Fedor was so dominant in the early days, he was a Sambo grand master practicing since he was 7.
I mean top tier sambo practicioner > top tier bjj.
Khabib > RDA, Islam > Olivera, Fedor > Big Nog, what more do you need?
@@МихаилЧалый-щ3жFedor also got submitted by Fabricio Werdum so it’s a lot more complicated then your letting on.
Sambo overtime has transitioned into more mma focused styles aswell. Unlike in your bjj class and wrestling class where its pure grappling sambo mixes in the striking as a part of setups and such. Which in my opinion makes it that much better.
@@greysonsmith2054 Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t that how Combat Sambo had always been since it’s conception?
If you learn a single leg in a BJJ school are you learning wrestling or BJJ?
Grappling is grappling. The only thing that changes is the rules. Of course if you practice take downs and submissions you’ll be better off than just training one or the other. Anyone that disagrees with that is not to be taken seriously.
I think this is why jiujitsu is so enduring; it’s non-traditional. If a technique works really well in wrestling, we’ll just incorporate it into the syllabus and grow. But wrestling, as a standalone discipline, cannot do that. A Greco-Roman wrestler (for instance) can’t learn a triangle choke and then incorporate it into his next competition. They can crosstrain jiujitsu (and they all do) for MMA, and incorporate it there, but wrestling, as a style itself, is inherently limited (in much the same way judo has been for half a century). There is only so much space for evolution there. If wrestling truly were inherently superior, BJJ just would have evolved into wrestling, which it hasn’t. There is no rule, no limitation, that would keep that evolution from happening, unlike in wrestling which has rules that prevent its evolution into BJJ (if that is indeed the most “fit” adaptation).
@@elenchusMy biggest problem is that when it comes to do that technique adapted from wrestling to a wrestler the execution sucks.
Just as a comment i saw some months ago "ADCC is turning into low tier wrestling championship".
@@omegadeepblue1407 I would say that one of the reasons for wrestling's success, and perhaps (if I read you correctly) the lower quality of wrestling from BJJ adherents is that wrestling has an absolutely enormous filtering mechanism by the time it gets to high-level MMA or grappling.
Most of the top wrestlers have been wrestling since middle school, on through high school, and through college. They have been tough enough to make it that far without any major injuries and athletic enough to get into top college programs and find success there.
That is, a lot of the wrestlers we see have a pedigree that the average jiujitsu guy lacks. A lot of us are like engineers, accountants, that kind of thing. Most of us don't begin until our 20s, and we don't benefit from a multi-nationwide middle school or high school program that begins training vast numbers of students from a young age with frequent and tough competition. Some jiujitsu guys have a similar pedigree as the wrestlers, but a relatively small percentage.
Grappling is not grappling. Jiu Jitsu inherently defensive and wrestling is inherently offensive.
Wrestling is more than just takedowns.
@@elenchus Is more related on how are this taugh, they got out of their comfort zone, as an engineer doing a master i can relate to that.
You just can't pretend you can do wrestling that is being teach by someone who just knowed the technique few months before you learned it.
The problem with high level BJJ is that due to the lack of striking some advanced moves in high level BJJ are "too fancy" for MMA, because you over expose yourself to getting punched in the face.
I feel like when people started saying that wrestling backgrounds are the best base for MMA, a lot of people took that to mean that strong wrestlers are always gonna beat everyone else which is not really what that means. I think what people who say wrestling is the best base are getting at is that it's one of if not the easiest backgrounds to build your other skills on top of. That's why many wrestlers in MMA look different to one another. You can use your wrestling to build strong takedown defense and then become a good striker, you can use your wrestling to take people down and control them with ground and pound for 5 rounds. You can develop strong submissions on the ground and use your wrestling to tire even people with amazing takedown defense out then sink in the choke. People get so frustrated at Gaethje and Cejudo "not using their wrestling" because they don't fight like DC or Khabib, but they do, they just built on top of their wrestling base differently. Anyone who comes from a different discipline can of course become more well rounded with time, but I think strong stand up grappling is the root at which all other branches of martial arts sprout the most easily. We're finding this out now but it's been the truth for hundreds if not thousands of years.
Wrestlers control where the fight takes place it’s as simple as that. Land or water, it’s the better wrestler’s choice
Beautifully said.
It’s not a problem with the art, it’s a problem with the mindset.
Wrestling and judo will NEVER EVER EVER accept being on bottom. Which, is what you want in MMA.
Jiu Jitsu mindset is being a guard puller when they do have top game and lots of offense on top and bottom.
What are you talking about bruh, why would you want to be on bottom in MMA? Unless you’re elite at it BJJ it isn’t gonna save you from getting smashed by elbows and punches from a guy equally as big/strong as you.
@@asapra7elite591 you misread my comment. I would never ever want to be on bottom. I’m a judo guy. I’m not a coward guard pulling cuck.
What im saying is Jiu Jitsu does have top game style but jiu Jitsu schools engrain a style of playing bottom all the time. Which is stupid for MMA.
@@marconopolo5723i agree, bjj at high level could save you from bad positions with triangles, arm bars or transitions but being in bottom is the last thing that you want, i think a fighter in the ufc who haves learned this lesson is oliveira, in his fight with islam he pulls guard when he got knockdown and got submitted, and now against dariush the first thing that he do when he was in bottom was to stand up inmediately when he haves the oportunity and not play in the bottom like a regular bjj guy
Being on bottom is always worse. In MMA or a street fight. You always want to be in a position on top where you can decide that you want to bail if you get uncomfortable.
Everyone has to have some form of understanding of jiu jitsu, but the problem is that it doesn’t drill you enough on how to get people to the ground.
Judo and wrestling is definitely very important skills to have.
Very true. Especially when you can just pull guard without having to worry about punches being thrown.
That Wrestling + Judo + JiuJitsu you mention is called Sambo. Paired with striking you get Combat Sambo and yes, that is a very effective base for MMA
yeah bro really thought he did something there
I thought he was going to say "sambo" not "wrestling + judo + jiu-jitsu"
u think sambo guy will throw judoka
@@JanCzasami that's a bit random and has nothing to do with my post
Can someone explain how Judo is remotely useful in MMA? It's not. Once you lose the gi those throws stop working.
To dominate at MMA you need to be mixing the martial arts.
Next up:
problem with boxing in mma and how to fix it
Problem with Muay Thai in mma and how to fix it
Problem with traditional martial arts in mma and how to fix it
Problem with judo in mma and how to fix it (I’m excited for that one)
Problem with mma in mma
Spoiler alert for the judo video, no gi in mma :(
no probelm for muy tai except for the high stance prone to takedowns. Problem with boxing is no kicking or anything else. Problem with judo is no gi, but nogi judo works well
Judo is a tough one in MMA because of sample size and other issues. Many judoka make more money in their sport vs UFC. The other issue is it takes arguably more time to have a decent judo skill set than wrestling skill set esp in the USA where most judo schools are watered down or non existent. I love judo but those are some major issues with it not really existing as much as wrestling in the UFC.
the problem with problems in mma
I used to do Catch Wrestling. Which is basically a hybrid form of Greco-Roman, Freestyle, Judo, Jujutsu and a bunch of other things. It’s submission wrestling and I think it has the right idea. The issue is that it often gets stagnated in tradition when if it kept hybridising every grappling art it would just get better and better. The BJJ guard is still superior imo, but in some gyms they adopt things like the rubber guard and incorporate it.
You seem like a smart guy, but I'm sorry, I couldn't really tell what you are doing and what against the rules in catch wrestling. Could you clarify?
@@themanhimself9899 Thanks, I could try and elucidate but I'm not sure what you are asking, exactly. Could you re-state your question please?
My only issue with catch is that there are so few people who can actually teach it. And some of the rules make catch fights a little less interesting compared to jiu jitsu because how small the duration of a pin needs to be to get a win. If they just made it a little longer to get a pinfall victory, we'd probably see more submissions, but a lot of Catch matches I see involve a standup clinch fight, followed by a takedown/throw and a pin that immediately ends the match.
@@rohitchaoji You aren’t wrong about the matches. But I’m more referring to the skill set they teach. I think it’s about as well rounded as we have available currently. It’s weakness is grappling from the guard but based on what I got taught everything else is pretty high level, they even have a few interesting sweeps from the bottom that I rarely see elsewhere, they are expected to be executed quickly though. Perhaps the speed of the pin is why the guard game is so limited. I think you’re onto something.
@@-MacCloud- Oh definitely. I'd love to learn catch wrestling some day, but coaches are very rare I'd presume. But in my country, submission grappling of any sort is relatively new and we have only ever had one Brazilian jiu jitsu black belt in the entire country. But there are now several very good purple and some brown belts. Even though we have a long tradition of wrestling, any submissions it had, have been forgotten in favour of the kind of wrestling that matters for financial security and success in sports (Olympic wrestling).
Seem to be forgetting that throughout most of Khabib's time in the UFC he never actually trained BJJ, it was all Freestyle wrestling, Sambo, and Judo
@@ZappaGetSlappabjj nerd mad
I love Michael chandler
I don't know much about him as a fighter but he seems like a really solid down to earth dude.
A fight that exemplified what you're saying was Aljo vs Cejudo. Henry was the better wrestler and maybe even striker but Aljo managed to outdo him while Henry couldn't even envision taking Aljo's back while Sterling was crawling and grounded.
As Dominick Cruz told me, "Wrestle when you are young, you can start wrestling too late and never be able to catch up. Once you do that, Jui Jitsu is easy to learn in comparison" Wrestling alone is the only art that can solely win you some matches in MMA, but jui jitsu plays a strong part of the ground game, and if neglected you will eventually get exposed.
Wrestling is not the only art that can win you MMA fights on its own. There are kickboxers, for example, who have won plenty of fights only using their kickboxing.
That's rubbish. Wrestling alone has no submissions and prioritizes positional dominance and not very much else.
@@linds6609 even in submission grappling position is more important than submission. Ask any Gracie and they will tell you if they could be on top or bottom in a street fight top every time. Wrestling insures that you get there. It is also true. That jujitsu can be learned to a high-level later in life where as wrestling on starting early so that you don’t get behind. There are many instances of fights that pure wrestlers beat pure jujitsu guys in MMA because they can control position and just not get submitted. Like Yoel Romero vs Jacre Souza
@@kaelcrane2076 bro you are delusional. You said ' wrestling alone can win you some MMA matches.' that's absolute rubbish. Wrestling is a tool on your belt, the same as BJJ and Muay Thai. The difference is that you can Finnish a fight with BJJ and Muay Thai. How would you do that with wrestling? Take downs and positional dominance are vital but they don't win MMA fights. Put a wrestler against a BJJ guy with the same amount of years training, size and level of athleticism and see who wins. Almost every time it will be the BJJ guy coz he can finish a fight. He might not be able to get you to the ground but once you get him there you are likely done.
@@linds6609 I might give you that point, but a world-class wrestler with a couple years of BJJ experience, maybe a purple belt, could beat any pure jujitsu fighter in the world with a few years of wrestling training, maybe high school level in mma. 95% of the time the positional dominance and competency at defending submissions is going to be more valuable and effective them, potentially submitting someone off your back while getting hit in the face
Generally agree but I remember how impressing it was how far Ben Askren went just using wrestling and his spinning back fist of doom.
His fight with Maia was the best showing of how important jiujitsu is. As good as Maia is, Askren was hands down better at getting to the ground in a better position. Problem for Askren, Maia was hands down better at rolling to a win.
Yeah but when he got to ufc git demolished
Michael Chandler takes a ton of risks in stand up that drastically effects the context of his grappling. The only reason Michael did those takedowns was because he couldn't edge the striking.
The problem i find with grappling is that the advanced techniques in any grappling style do not translate in any other style. As a striker when I went to the gym to train bjj i noticed there wasnt a ton of time spent learning how to get the fight to the ground. If you go learn judo, or wrestling they get it there but its easy get caught up because you give up a limb or position in the process.
The fact is all of the best grapplers in mma who become champions do really simple stuff and minimize errors instead of trying fancy throws, takedowns that cost to much energy, or buggy chokes and butt scoot leg locks.
Wrestling doesn't need to be fixed people just need to stick to the basics of each style. Wrestling has ALWAYS only been useful as a way to making sure you can control where the fight goes but, thats where it ends. Pretending that good wrestling should lead to a submission is like pretending good takedown defense should lead to you knocking out your opponent. The best grapplers(if they become champions) will keep it simple instead of trying to implement everything under the sun. The days of Bj Penns and Frank Mirs are all gone because guys just aren't will to make those kind of mistakes anymore.
taking someone's back isn't a good example of jiu jitsu. its a staple for scoring turns in wrestling. you don't see it in freestyle because of the rules giving points for back exposure but you see its a pretty common specialization in folkstyle and collegiate. bo nickal submitted an entire jiu jitsu school by taking their backs his first day trying it out. there's an interview where he talks about it and the owner of the school posted to confirm it.
This! In fact, coaching high school folkstyle, I'd *often* be yelling "Get your points!" from the corner, i.e. get behind and finish the takedown rather than lose it by getting greedy and trying too hard to get the opponent to their back all at once. (Which more experienced guys were adept at reversing.)
i think bjj does back takes better than even folkstyle wrestling. a turn isn’t quite the same as taking someone’s back. you see the “two boots/hooks in” position a lot more in bjj than folkstyle. justin gaethje and ben askren both had folkstyle backgrounds and got submitted by people with better bjj (khabib and damien maia)
@@johnpedouify Better back takes for subs? Probably. But better back takes for mma? Not even close. The most *lethal* ground and pound position for a long time has been revealed to be riding position, sticking to a guy's hip and wailing away from behind him where he can't reply. One of the Achilles heels of bjj guys has been to be too eager to lock in going for a sub and overlook the riding position. (As well as--going back to how Hughes schooled Royce, using hooks to *flatten* guys out to wail away from behind.)
You need to have someone's back fully under control in order to turn them. They use the full spectrum of leg riding, one leg two leg, alternating legs. The only thing not there is figure four which is illegal in wrestling. I've seen at least as much where someone that practices BJJ doesn't know all the control from turtle and rushes for slopped leg hooks like a kid at a candy store.
@@towardstar Exactly. (And of course I'm even long enough in the tooth to remember when figure-four was actually legal. 😉)
Please do one for striking boxing/kickboxing
Muay Thai/Kickboxing*
not his experience
@DireGoth03 you're a genius
Being advanced in judo, wrestling and jiu-jitsu at the time is just being advanced in SAMBO. That is why Islam and Khabib are so good
I think the field a shifting a bit. You see guys from a dedicated MMA gym win fights lately. And I think those guys will take over in maybe a decade max.
So in other words an art like Sambo that combines alot of grappling is effective. So you only need Sambo for MMA haha
Chandler trains with Neil melanson who is from the gokor lineage of sambo/catch wrestling/judo. More top control stuff than back attacks
But Melanson is a guard player, how he is gonna prefer control from the top than back takes?
0:34 I will argue combat Sambo is the best base for MMA.
The wrestling population is large and sambo is small in MMA but nearly all the Sambo based fighters all successful. Fedor his brother the Dagestan and Chechen guys most Russian mma guys in General have at least some Sambo experience. Combat Sambo is about as close to MMA as you can get without it being MMA. It’s MMA with an emphasis on Judo and wrestling.
Basically yeah I agree
Was just gonna say this. Wrestlers also like giving their back. I did wrestling for a while and realized how much trouble it got me in when I fought. Still won the fight tho :)
I’m tired of ppl saying khabib didn’t fight grapplers not true. And the Al iaquinta fight. Khabib mauled him then stopped trying to maul him because he was killing him.
Glad you made this video. #1 not discussed topic in MMA. I thought I’d dominate in MMA after 12 years of wrestling and judo because that’s what everyone said. People really underestimate how hard it is to finish someone if their jiu jitsu is better than yours. Wrestling is the most common MMA base only because the collegiate wrestling system produces thousands of fit athletes used to weight cuts who have no way to wrestle after college except do MMA.
Bro this is a genious level content and Ill explain why. You break down things in a way that a complete dummie, long time fans and probably even pro fighters can take something away from your videos.
No one art is enough for mma, but bjj is definitely the least important pillar of MMA. You can be mediocre at BJJ, and be the best at the world. You have to be very exceptional at BJJ to use it as your base. Even Ryan hall has his issues when he fought the best. I guess what annoys me about BJJ guys is how naive they are about their ability to fight.
BJJ is similar to what we refer to as a “pubstomp” kit in video games. If your opponent doesn’t know how to counter it you will win just de facto. But if your opponent understands it even to a basic level they will neutralize your abilities and likely beat you at their own game. In short you can’t be good at MMA without knowing at least how to defend against BJJ, but beyond that level it’s entirely complementary. It’s the reason why pure BJJ guys did so well at first but now they don’t succeed in the UFC. You still see pure wrestlers like colby or pure strikers like pereira though.
Tthats just cap, in the past yes but today, everyone is training all aspects of grappling and BJJ offers a full conceptual understanding of grappling in a way that no other school does, which specifically helps with grappling DEFENSE. Hence why Craig Jones a BJJ guy trained Volk to the best performance against Islam we've seen. Name a modern fighter thats the best in the world with mediocre bjj, keep in mind mediocre means NOT GOOD.
@@buckets3628 I mean relative to the top guys in the bjj world. Think about it like this if you could be exceptional at grappling wrestling or striking, but average at the other 2. Bjj would be the least valued, because without takedown ability. It won’t mean much unless you’re extremely exceptional of your back.
@@rico14 It would mean that no one can keep on your back, no one can sub you, no one wants to even go to the ground with you because they're terrified that even from a disadvantage position, you have the advantage, which means no one will clinch you, no one will want to kick you. That sounds QUITE FUCKING USEFUL BRO
@@buckets3628 There’s like 5 guys in MMA that have legitimately dangerous guards, and even then I wouldn’t say they have the advantage. You’re pretty much always losing the fight on your back, and even Ryan hall struggled once he fought the top guys.
Nice video bro ! Keep it up !
There’s sambo and there’s combat sambo.
That’s what Dagestan like khabib and Islam have.
It is a mix of wrestling, judo, and BJJ. And punches for combat sambo.
video title: "you know what really grinds my MMA gears"
Commenting for the algorithm, love this channel ❤
Sambo is mostly Judo, so showing a Sambist using an ude garami, sankaku jime , or hadaka jime, is not proof that he knows BJJ.
What really annoys me about wrestling is how much their techniques require them putting their knee to the floor. Just seems terrible idea for anything but soft mats
Andrew Wiltse said once when he was a bouncer he took a guy down with a double leg perfectly and dominated him but his knee were opened till the bone from the impact he made with the floor.
On surface that is harder than wood i would rather go with a Marcelo Gracia style dropping butt takedown than destroying my knee.
@@katokianimation absolutely agree. I would love to see the rules of wrestling changed to no knees on floor during takedowns...and stopping this belly down parachute when there conceding a point.
For me those are the worst habits of wrestlers that relate to fighting
@@goku-pops7918 talking about the rules bring back had kicks against grounded opponent. I want to see wrestlers getting kneed. Open guard passing to soccer kick. And finally pounded guard players striking back as effectively.
Andarson Silva loosing a match bc he knocked out his opponent from guard is such a bs.
I dont think kick like this is worse to your health than full body generated standing blow.
That true if you do a traditional single double. If you do a blast double, body throw, or trip you can be safe from that.
@@katokianimation yes pride rules were so exciting except they didn't have elbows
The 2 most dominant grapplers in modern MMA are from wrestling background. Khabib and Islam. Both have a history of dominating guys with a BJJ base. One of the reasons this is so is they’ve correctly diagnosed that being on bottom is objectively inferior in mma and Khabib doesn’t allow his fighters to settle for bottom position.
Judo/sambo isn’t wrestling, they kill wrestling
@@DADRB0B55 they both Wrestled
It’s called MMA for a reason,mixed martial arts,having only 1 discipline in mma can only take you so far,you need to mix it up,Charles oliveira a great example of jiu jitsu,Muay Thai and boxing
MC is just a beast. He has more athletism than anybody in his division.
You're absolutely right. Brilliant analysis and commentary.
I need more MMA Che to feed my addiction… this will do for now
you are speaking facts on facts my guy
3:52 was not a pistol squat. It was a squat that used the right leg more, but hardly 100% like a pistol squat. A "pistol squat" with the other foot down, leaning into that point for leverage, is very different from what a pistol squat actually is.
i think the same can be said for kamaru usmans game there were multiple times leon edwards gave his back up to him rather than going from position to submissions he opted to hold Edwards down and ground and pounds him giving Edwards time to stand up and keep the fight in his element
That was cold mentioning Mike Chandlers wife's black son.
I’ve been dreading my favorite fighters fighting wrestlers the whole time I’ve been watching mma. (Diaz bros)
I disagree with one of your statements. Actually, I agree with two-thirds of it. You said Khabib was a master of wrestling, judo, and jiu jitsu. He was a master of wrestling, judo, and sambo but I never really saw any jiu jitsu from him at all. Maybe he is skilled in jiu jitsu and I don't know about it, but he never really used it in his fights. And I would make the argument that he didn't only just beat up strikers. Yeah, most of his opponents were probably strongest in striking, but he did fight some good grapplers along the way. I think he would have beaten anyone put before him in the octagon. I mean, you could have put one of the best jiu jitsu practitioners in the world in front of him such as Demian Maia (I realize he's in a totally different weight class) and he would have beat him. I don't think there was anyone who could have beaten Khabib.
The only way Khabib could be beaten it him ending in a close guard but it has never happened dude was too smart on the ground he decide where he wants to end.
He subbed Gaethje with a triangle
Khabibs debut was against an Olympian wrestler mauled him. Abel had records set against him. A multiple time all American if not a national champion. What about all the Russians he fought? What about all the combat sambo matches?
Great take! Each grappling discipline have their individual strengths and applications in MMA because each sport's rulesets gravitate to those strengths. Wrestling (Folkstyle & Freestyle) focus on control/takedowns because that's how the sport is scored. Judo scored by throws. And BJJ... do I have to say. And the Dagestanis excel because they have a great understanding of when to apply each strength.
bro showed Chandler even tho wrestling wasn't the problem, cardio is, he was dominating Poirer on the ground
Well, it’s MMA. That’s the game. It’s what makes it interesting, that the demand is broad.
maybe i'm biased (i'm a judoka) but their groundwork seems more of a judo/sambo style rather than BJJ, their strenght come from the ability to transition from stainding to ground,they are very explosive when they start the groundwork as in judo (due to the ruleset but still), is just a matter of mentality, most techniques are basicly the same but BJJ guy are more metodical and bouild their submition one step at a time.
Beautiful breakdown and thank you for helping me open my eyes
Im not gonna lie i was getting a bit distracted by those sick scrambles you were showing all along lmao
Man you are a very bright man subscribed!
Idk maybe it's because I was never very good but the shortcomings of only knowing wrestling in an MMA context were obvious once I joined an MMA gym
20 years ago it was the wrestlers who were stalling and getting smacked around. A lot of it is rules but a lot of it is also quality of athlete. Wrestlers are generally better athletes and UFC MMA rules help the wrestler, for example no knees to the top of the head in north/south position helps wrestlers by making it less threatening to shoot for a double leg.
Depends completely on the wrestler and their mentality. As many wrestlers (especially with catch background/knowledge have said) there are tons of techniques that, if one is a grind/punish type, that only need to be pushed past the point of legality in folkstyle/freestyle and/or Greco to be... classic subs. (Some of which, the Schultz choke, hammerlocks, and so on even being rather underutilized.) Some sport wrestlers don't think in these terms--but some do.
I 100% agree with you. Michael Chandler isn't near as good a representation of how wrestling translates to MMA as Daniel Cormier, Randy Couture, Chuck Liddell, Kamaru Usman, or GSP, or Jon Jones. All of those guys utilize wrestling in their own unique way to win and only a couple of those guys "needed" other grappling styles to win a fight.
@@kaliduncanel3356 Jon Jones in particular. For example, pretty much everything in judo is in wrestling and vice versa. (I was, pre-mma days, a catch-influenced "renegade" judo guy who transitioned later to coaching high school wrestling easily.) And so people can rightly point out just how excellently Jones has utilized "judo" techniques, but that's just because he's using wrestling that a lot of wrestlers, well, overlook. 😏
@@thechroniclesofthegnostic7107 even though I'm sure he uses plenty judo as gaido jutstu has judo most of his takedowns are Greco Roman throws as he doesn't have a gi to utilize. For instance we see a lot of leg reaping in Jons style but, he doesn't have a reliance on it the way we've seen other judo experts have in MMA. This is because judo has no realistic way of being executed without using the holds of wrestling in particular Greco Roman which disallows the use of the legs. All his judo techniques are all what I'd consider to be unexpected "bonuses" after hes created all of his kazushi to execute them when he couldn't typical throw to get from the no gi holds of Greco-Roman. This is the only safe way of executing judo at a high level again making judo techniques a "bonus" as opposed to a requirement to win at grappling.
We see pure judo guys come into MMA and put themselves in bad positions or even take themselves down using traditional set ups. This is mainly due to posture. I know this because I'm not personally grappler by trade but, a striker. Muay Thai clinch creates the same problems with posture as you are too upright to defend a shot. Freestyle and folkstyle wrestling are problematic as you posture is to low for striking. Jon, Randy Couture, Dan Henderson and even DC have success because they use the Greco-Roman posture to get to a throwing, clinch striking, or shoot position. They only need to learn judo so as to defend it but, that's it.
@@kaliduncanel3356 All excellent points! Yeah, I could go on and on on how much judo has disappointed me in mma. 😏 But then, again, I started in catch (growing up in Minneapolis, hq of Verne Gagne's territory) and only did judo through a rebel lineage because I so much wanted to do subs too. (Don't even get me started on how furious I always was--LONG before the double leg was "officially" banned in retaliation to the Mongolians, I was nailed for a keikoku any time I even tried one.) But it all boils down to the same thing: judo culture's " *we're* not wrestling" snobbery. If it had ever (or does ever) join the wrestling brotherhood as just its own variant ruleset? Everbody would/will benefit!
@@thechroniclesofthegnostic7107 I personally think the groundwork for that has been laid. Ronda Rousey's use of Morote Gari in Olympic judo and Shuntaros use of judo in sumo wrestling shows the effectiveness of informal judo. Whether or not someone can or will legitimately systemize it will remain to be seen.
I seeing comments from guys who don’t know enough about wrestling or and never wrestled and it shows
How many D1 strictly D1 wrestlers have won ADCC with no experience in Brazilian jujitsu or catch wrestling
Im a 2 stripe white belt in jujitsu and just started wrestling and I dont understand how there is any argument that jujitsu is not only the best grappling base but one of the most vital parts of mma. Lots of fights end in submission, your done if you dont know what to defend.
Is submission wrestling like Catch Wrestling the best base? Can it be argue that Khabib actually uses submission wrestling as opposed to BJJ?
Folkstyle is better then Freestyles for MMA.
At this point MMA is a martial art of it's own. If you wanna get good at mma, ypu have to fo MMA
Why don’t you call Sambo by its name?
sambo can be misinterpreted as foul language as its a slur
It's a racial slur in the US that has nothing to do with the grappling art
Pistol squat? Last time I checked pistol squat was done on one leg :)
The main things you need from American wrestling is the takedown and takedown defense. Otherwise there aren't many "attacks" in American wrestling.
ground control and mat returns also good
Wrong Folkstyle wrestling also promotes no being on your back,escaping when someone gets your back, chain wrestling,putting your bodyweight on your opponent to gas him out, keeping your opponent on bottom wrestling has much more value for mma then just a takedown.
The top control and movement on bottom is great in folkstyle you mouthbreather
As someone with a wrestling background just starting in BJJ, I can get the takedown and the pin but don't know what to really do when I get there.
Lowkey deserve way more subs…
Another thing you should point out is how diffeent mma wrestling is compared to freestyle/folkstyle, John danaher said this basically is a podcast but basically the only thing having a d1 or high level freestyle background will help with is finishing a takedown when in on legs or clinch but like 20% of pure wrestling techniques work in mma and like 80% of mma wrestling is in just takedkebs setups, gsp abd khabib the 2 greatest mma wrestlers had whole systems for mma wrestling gsps being striking into takedowns matered and khabibs being the cage takedown and chain wrestling.
The perfect mma fighter is someone with a wrestling background, who learns jj, boxing and can throw a few kicks.
Defense and having a tough chin and good endurance are very important, too.
Ben Askren vs Demian Maia
And for the mixture you have to look at why Gillespie won against Ferreira.
I just wanna mention that judo is not just takedowns, it's also ne waza, ground game. But not like BJJ of course.
Speaking straight facts homie great video
I mean freestyle wrestling derives from Catch wrestling. Which is the main discipline of Josh Barnett and Kazushi Sakuraba.
Old school Judo has all the moves you mentioned for takedown as much as for finishes. It's just rarely thought outside of Japan due to most people wants to learn Olympic Judo.
Old school judo has a bounce of problems, i've done this sport for 14 years and with the limitation of what you can do modern judokas have become monsters at taking people down in a way that other sports don't have, the judo throws are used by everyone but only judokas use them as they do, basicly you have less techniques but they work better
Devolved really
Next video: the problem with martial arts in Mixed Martial Arts
TL;DR wrestling + bjj is better than either of them alone for grappling, wow mind-blowing right?
kevin randelman,brock lesner,bo nickal,dan,chael sonnen, henry sehudo,yoel romero,dc all have wrestling base and a little bit blasting punches yet they are all champs
Love this video thanks mate Im actually learning and this answered many questions 😅😂
Do folks really not put Respecc on the name of CATCH WRESTLING?!
Besides it's all about grappling overall. The more complete grappler wins
Chandlers fight IQ is the same number as a college students bank account lmfao
2:03 you nudged a spoon in a bowl, can't hide it from me son
Your Videos are so Good !!
great video, love the content!
Grappling.
Just... grappling.
Get rid of any stupid limitations when your goal is to do mixed martial arts anyway. To each one his personal style. Grappling, striking, and that's it. In the end the best martial art is simply "fighting". End of all useless and clueless arguments.
All perfectly valid points. Still, nothing like a wrestler in MMA to spoil a BJJ guy’s day with takedown défense alone…
The Gracie's made sure guys with wrestling backgrounds were kept out of the early UFC tournaments for that reason.
8:05 thank you mr.habibi to clear the dirt out of the eye
I do like your narration. Very precise with the topic. You confidentially explain moves and back it up with footage.
Greetings from Kyiv, UA🟨🟨🟦🟦
Really good video bro
Usman also suffered from just having a pure wrestling style.
Also his pharmacist brother giving him HGH
he's also on roids
@@corbelan4 that helped him thats why hes the champ
@@bluedonkey180 then it destroyed his knees
That clearly wasn't a pistol squat, it seemed like there was still a fair amount of weight on the other leg extended out
The best thing jujitsu can do is allow slamming at competitions so that they start teaching how to defend slams and throws in grappling class. It’s like this weird Achilles’ heel, but they’re all aware of and do nothing about barely any jujitsu People that I have gone against have made the adjustment of letting go and going for the single leg when somebody’s going to pick them up
I think people know they ain't just wrestlers. They just said they're the best in that aspect If u look at it alone.