LotR: Journeys in Middle-Earth | Rahdo's Final Thoughts
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 10 ก.ย. 2024
- Help Rahdo Run: / rahdo ❤️ Code of conduct: conduct.rahdo.com 🙂 And now...
A video outlining gameplay for the boardgame The Lord of the Rings: Journeys in Middle-Earth.
For more game info, boardgamegeek....
Part I: Setup
• LotR: Journeys in Midd...
Part II: Gameplay Runthrough
• LotR: Journeys in Midd...
Part III: Extended Gameplay
• LotR: Journeys in Midd...
Part IV: Final Thoughts
• LotR: Journeys in Midd...
lol... Bilbo as Solid Snake :)
I've played the first scenario around 4 times and enjoyed it each play. What will ultimately determine how much I enjoy it will be how much variation and how much story comes out during each scenario. The app is easy to use. I've enjoyed determining which cards I want to put into play, which changes depending on what I am planning on doing in the next round or two. So far my only minor complaint might be the size of the cards. For a thematic game you should be immersed in the artwork which is hard when the cards are so small.
So? Three years later what are your thoughts?
My biggest complaint is not finding items. Every search I do that sounds like I could find something and it's only inspiration and lore. Not enough variety. They need a novice mode that doubles lore so we can upgrade faster.
I like the exploration, I like the theme, the app is fantastic, I appreciate the fact that it's not a very heavy game (in fact I find it ridiculous that it's rated as high as it is on BGG) but I really hate flipping cards over and that is the large majority of what you do.
LOTR Online MMO Managed the handling of the original Tolkien characters well. They were in the background with occasional direct interaction as your character went on independent adventures in support of the Fellowship.
I wanna know if the game is made better with all the expansions?
Thank you for your honest opinions. I really appreciate it!
Nice thoughts. I guess this game wasn’t the Middle-Earth Quest 2.0 you (and I) we’re hoping for. Of course, I bought it (because Tolkien) and have had a pleasant enough time going through it solo... but I’m hoping expansions might remedy some of the more disappointing elements.
Have you had a chance to play MEQ since your review? What elements of that design might you have liked to see imported into this new game? MEQ, as cumbersome as it was, had some incredible design ideas.
Thanks for all your wonderful work, you’re one of my favourite voices in the scene.
nope, i rarely get any game back to the table after my video is done. and yes, MEQ is pretty great (other than the end game resolution). i guess if there's one thing that should have been brought over, it would be the cool combat which normally can only happen in a competitive game, but with the app here, it could have been brought into a co-op :)
THANK YOU for this honest review Rahdo it's appreciated! We've love LOTR for like 40 years now and we would definitely not like this game for the reasons you mentioned.
Our biggest complaint is that a lot of the missions are rather obtuse. In one missing, it tells you that you're going to need to investigate everything, but 9/10 of the things you can investigate are useless or even make the doom gauge go up!
Flat campaign indeed...
So you didn't like Journeys in Middle-Earth because the skill checks became tedious and boring but aren't the skill checks pretty similar to the skill checks in 7th Continent, a game you very much enjoyed?
skill checks in 7C are much fewer and far between. you might go 10+ minutes without having to do one. in LotR, otoh, a minute rarely goes by where you don't do another one. so it's a matter of volume. random skill checks are like salt. a pinch can enhance the meal, but too much and you ruin it.
Every you said, spot on Rahdo.
What about the expansions? I just bought this game with dwellers in darkness and villains of eriador
i never tried 'em so i can't say
People complain about the app presence because it changes the "feel" of playing a board game....and it does..immensely. I understand that the app takes away all the number crunching, etc. Howbeit, it still effects my overall enjoyment of the game.
When playing this game, it feels like I'm almost playing an app game with some tactile bits added on, when it should feel the other way around. I think if they somehow managed to leave the combat out of the app, and on the board, it would fair much better. The app should have been restricted to just tile/token placement and all things atmospheric.
It is a very streamlined game, though.
The fiddly innovation for the sake of it card mechanism is the biggest turn off for me. Card counting, wonky shifting probabilities, shuffling for what purpose? Does it represent some form of cooldowns? I'd say Doom 2nd Edition, Sword and Sorcery, and Warhammer Quest Card Game/Heroes of Terrinoth handle card based abilities better. I'd rather just roll to resolve, RPG/miniature wargame-style within this game's framework.
Thank you
I must say it's an interesting idea though I'm personally not fond of the idea of apps integrated into games given I play a board game to get away from the tech for awhile. I agree about how they should have instead just made it an original cast of player characters with canon characters just being people you run into to avoid the fanfiction angle that just throws the story out of whack. Very cool looking though I can really see how the card thing would get tiring after awhile given most of the game revolves around 'drawing so many cards' and checking for successes. I'm a D&D player so I can tell this lacks a level of depth similar to that with the skill checks and combat. Plus I just prefer rolling dice myself with the tactile feel of them shaking in ones hands and clicking on the surface, it's just very satisfying to me. XD Overall I like the idea they were going for but I'm not sure it would be for me.
I’m a beginner to these RPG style games...everyone says to get Gloomhaven but it seems like a lot for a first timer. Would this be a good start then before GH? On BGG it says it’s a lighter game , or is there a better suggestion?
gloomhaven is not a good first timer game, at all! journeys is a much better choice in that regard. However, there's a new 'intro' version of gloomhaven coming in a couple months called Gloomhaven: Jaws of the Lion, and since Gloomhaven is a much better game than journeys, this might be worth waiting for?
Rahdo thanks for the quick reply. I think I’ll get both actually! I’m a big LOTR fan but have mostly played competitive board games. After playing the pandemic seasons though I’m now hooked on co-op so want to try something new lol.
bilbo as burger is more dangerous and deals more dmg than I ever could do in any Assassins Creed Games... but it is so much fun
So, make a house rule. Every turn role a die and 5-6 you scout, 1-4, don’t scout. Or some sort of that combination.
I dont find this tedious at all. i find the card draw and manipulation pretty intuative. its story driven and a a total hoot. dont see the issue myself
I personally agree about the Tolkien canon and the fan fictiony thing, but I guess they were trying to split the difference? Like you could go Aragorn, Elanor or something that could be canon and not play as Bilbo. But Bilbo is there for people who want names they recognize.
I like your new Hobbit character idea; if they wanted they could do a wink to Tolkien's actual writing if they added in "Trotter", Tolkien's Hobbit version of Aragorn in his earlier LotR drafts....he was a Hobbit adventurer who could realistically level up and become quite tough and badass...and he's right from the maestro's pen...
that would have been fantastic!!! :)
I suppose it can feel like all your doing is shuffling and drawing cards endlessly - especially if your playing solo or two players where the phases are short. Maybe the game is too easy for you - maybe play it a few times on hard mode.
in normal mode there's alreay a feeling like you don't have time to explore as you wish...
For a game called "journey" in middle earth, you feel just like RUSHING...
SO in hard mode... where's the point really ?
I rather play Fallout, there i feel like really living something with some exciting exploring (not that i like the endgame but the story element is great there) (here... it's not... at all !)
This game lacks a lot of stuff it tries to do...
Campaign is flat...
Upgrading is barely existing in normal/hard as you just have to rush...
and once you explore... You found mainly found... Insparations and lore...
Where it could story you some cool stuff... But no... Nothgin...
Just a flat journey imho
No single missions...
No replay missions...
Combats are feeling repetitive (you don't even got real differences between monsters you encounters... Just different HP... and that's it...)
Tiles are... Oh my god... So uggly... !
And overall, you just got an almost empty box... And for such a price... with just 12 missions... and miniatures sold appart for 12$... it's a damn shame !
It defenatly Doesn't feel like THE GAME to have for me...
So of course, we could dream about that Hopefully ffg will correct and improve the shot, but they are not well known for this...
So appart from "little miniatures expansions" and "mini campaign" that you have to paid 6$ for... (wich should both be included in the base 90$ base game !) i'm not sure we'll have anything going in that direction...
And the prof is... They just announced an other big box to come ! Same shit, in the moria !
Going to be Just a pale copy of this one, with no improvements... And still no one-shot misisons nor epic discoveries...
Wich of course will soon be follow by one or two miniatures packs that are not in the box...
FFG likes money... and that's a shame coz this game as a huge potential...
So, even if the app app is great and cards mechanics is fun (but too present)...
This game defenatly isn't as great as it should be...
Far from it...
I just can’t get onboard with my board games requiring an electronic device. :(. Perhaps I’m a small minority on this - the Descent app was neat, but most of the games I consider favorites are over 5 years old or more ...
I just cant with the apps. I dislike the fact that there is no APP free option for those of us who look forward to activities away from screens.
@@crossfire507pty On the same boat too, although I do enjoy MoM 2nd edition, it doesn't mean I want every single game to have electronic devices required to play them
Great video! I experienced many of the same feelings with my playthrough. And, there are so many great things to love about this game; but, the biggest negative for me was that there were never enough inspiration tokens for the boss fights, when it was time for the heros to shine the most. Hopefully, FFG can easily fix many of the pointless and repetitive side quest rewards that became so tedious with a simple update to the app?
good point, they can update the app to change/improve quest content based on player feedback!
is rolling a dice for skill checks repetitive?
Repetitive, dumb and lazy but you get some excitement out of it.
pretty well summarized :)
great review, i think more likely the same
The app is great but Scenarios... got no single epic moments... For a campaign game... That's a bid disapointing... if not a Shame !
Not even any "single" missions are in the game... just that campaign with poor "xp" un_rewarding game...
The box feels empty... for that price... oh my god... This should cost 50$ max !
and Monsters are so... un_epics...
Fighting a goblin, an orc nor a warg feels like just the same fight over and over...
Their Differences are just HP...
The game could and SHOULD be amazing...
Here it is just good for those tolkien fans and even there, i would say that's not quite enough...
The game got strong fondation, but most (if not all) of them are just unexploited...
On Normal mode, the clock is tiking so badly that you don't even have the opportunity to enjoy exploring and therefore... Getting any loots or more opportunity (as said just before) to upgrade your gears enough to enjoy the mechanic... And if you go on that "easy" mode... The game is just boring...
And all those "Half - Done" "Half Exploited" parts are just Making a final game...
Overall Quite flat !
None to mention the missing option to just replay a mission... (nor at least... at very least... The last one !)
Last thing to mention, i would have much prefered playing "complete strangers" like in star wars assault game, and meeting those "big names" along the campaign !
instead of playing a mix of Aragorn with a dwarf female that you read once in the book... Hunting some rabbits for a poor farmer...
That's not how i see Aragorn... Son of Arathorn... AT ALL !
And there again... I can't think about nothing else than.. A bad design choice...
Hopefully FFG will improve some of the big miss here, with better campaign and little campaigns... More exploration, more everything that i speak of, those little "half done" stuff that could turn the game to be much much better !
But that's FFG... What to exept next other than : Little packs with miniatures and 3 cards... Or Big Empty 80$ boxes... ?
Where they should just first... Improves this first box here...
With more missions, and better diversity in combat with possibility to have a real exploration trough the campaign and not only in easy mode...
Stay safe, thanks for the review that's not feeling like a paid one
Cheers from belgium
Bookkeeping in Gloomhaven is even worse. And that game is even more tedious. I can’t take it serious that you cannot see that flaw in your review(s).
?? i specifically said that gloomhaven would benefit greatly from an app like this!
rahdo yes excuse my bad English. I meant to have said that it’s odd you like GH even more while this game actually is more diverse. You stopped after campaign 5? Not really seen that much then. GH is also interesting but it gets a lot more repetitive.
@@Coffeemaker1978 I put 7 or so hours into this game, and i skipped ahead in the app to see what else was coming if I would have kept going, and we'll have to agree to disagree, as I feel Gloomhaven has TONS more variety and significantly less repeititon than Journeys in ME. There's literally no contest. I've put in over 100 hours into Gloomhaven and I was still getting new experiences. LotR not so much...
No way, a board game that has repetitive elements! Well, I never! I bought the game and love it.
I want a campaign game and I want a LOTR game, but I'll trust your opinion
i'd suggest seeking 2nd and 3rd opinions... a LOT of people absolutely love this one (or let the runthrough itself be your guide)
for our money, the lord of the rings card game is much more engaging on a gameplay design level, and it's sort of campaign-ish :)
@@rahdo I'll check that one out, haven't heard of it
@@rahdo with the rerelease it's explicitly campaignish XD
For a game where shuffling is so important and meant to be fun, why THE SMALL cards? Ridiculous turn off. Would be all in if they were standard size. The decks are so small I don't understand why they didn't do the usual mini and standard cards.
True. Repetitive mechanics, boring story-telling, lack of Tolkieness, dull decisions and horrific Quest design (especially quest 4).
I really do not understand why this game receives that much praise.
Die Nische Because it is a good FFG game?
@@TheTheshadow32 No because of my mentioned reasons.
Die Nische Stats show that your opinion is not shared by almost 85% of the ratings which means pretty unrepresentative.
@@TheTheshadow32 I do not think that majorities are always right. :)
oh ben, what happened to old "pandemic legacy is the devil" you, where you pointed out that popularity doesn't matter at all?
Great review, though it reminded me why I'm not a fan of these types of big games that take a long time to setup, have thick rule books, and the constant stopping of gameplay to read and look and figure out. For those that like these games it looks amazing, just not my cup of tea!! The only thing I REALLY liked is the themed music going on with the game :)
It's not that complicated and setup/breakdown doesn't take long really. For a base game it's really solid; expansions will make it better, like they do for most games of this genre.
your issue becomes moot when you learn rules to the games you're playing...
Some of the bookkeeping is part of the experience of playing a board game. And the app seems to interrupt the process of playing said board game too much. If it were end of round bookkeeping, I could be OK with it, but being interrupted over and over is just not fun (and it makes me feel like I'm teaching a class of children that keep interrupting me with questions every 2 minutes for every stupid thing which, trust me, is not fun at all :) ).
That being said: a procedurally generated campaign apps (the ones where you imput what you did in one scenario and it generates the next based on the imput) instead of campaign book for a Dungeon Crawl or Adventure game would be awesome!
the interruptions from the app are the equivalent of drawing cards from a deck or rolling dice in response to your actions to seed the world and control the enemies. the bookkeeping the app is saving you from is creating the decks, shuffling them, keeping them all orderly, as well as keeping track of enemy hitpoints (no stacks of tokens having to travel the map along with the enemies), special status tracking, etc.
IMO, none of that stuff adds to the fun (well, maybe card shuffling, but these games generally come with tiny cards that aren't fun to shuffle either) :)
@@rahdo That's not a good comparison: drawing a card takes you 1 second, rolling dice 3 seconds, picking up the phone, clicking , laying down the phone 10+ seconds (even more if the screen is off). And drawing a card and rolling dice is part of the board game experience, while the app is not.
A more better comparison would be Aeon's End Legacy (or maybe any Legacy game, but AE:L is the only one I've played): you take 2 turns, stop, read some boring text, move some tokens, continue for another 2 turns, put some stickers on the card, read more text, rinse and repeat. And it's tedious in AE: L as it is with an app.
@@rahdo That's not a good comparison: drawing a card takes you 1 second, rolling dice 3 seconds, picking up the phone, clicking , laying down the phone 10+ seconds (even more if the screen is off). And drawing a card and rolling dice is part of the board game experience, while the app clicking is not.
A more better comparison would be Aeon's End Legacy (or maybe any Legacy game, but AE:L is the only one I've played): you take 2 turns, stop, read some boring text, move some tokens, continue for another 2 turns, put some stickers on the card, read more text, rinse and repeat. And it's tedious in AE: L as it is with an app.
fair point. we ran the game on a laptop, and i use a nice little program called caffeine that ensures that the screen will never go dark nor a screen saver turn on (I use this program ALL the time - and i've got a similar app on my phone called 'keep screen on'... you'll note the screen never went off during over an hour of filming).
also i didn't demonstrate it, but you can adjust the transition speed of the app so that the next thing you're told to do happens just as fast as drawing any card or rolling any die (and checking an associated event chart). again, on our laptop, we quickly found it preferable to play at that full speed, and i totally forgot to set it that way for my phone when filming :)
your AE comparison makes me think it's less the app you have an issue with, more the fundamental nature of these sort of "narrative driven" designs, which I'll agree is an acquired taste for some (like us)
@@rahdo Could be. I've liked the reading in Arkham Horror (2005), but I haven't played that game in 7 year probably. I usually take a bathroom break when we need to read the scenario flavour text in Gloomhaven and others give me the short version when I come back :)
I have far better adventure 'dungeon crawls' painted on fan faction LOTR grates for me to, it actually breaks the game for me, probably not if I had little interest or passimg knowledge of Tolkien LOTR world. The mechanism is a variation of the IA Descent assist apps for solo/Co-op play. Value for money. For quick play prefer Legends untold or Gloom of Kilforth etc. A big pass.
Everything FFG release is full of hype. Doesn't make it good. I mean who's still talking about the hype that was "unique" in a board game?
Sorry but I've passed on the last four games these guys have come up with, mediocre at best in my opinion.
Absolutely. Especially AH3 is pretty bad.
You’ve got a point. It is repetitive. No interesting choices in time...
Nope. Its such a shame, ... why the app. At least give us an option NOT to app. Maybe I want to handle the stuff. I started playing board games to quit an addiction to video games. I love the fact that my board games are a few moments of life away from screens... such a shame.
hmm, to me that's like saying you can't have a shirly temple because you're an recovering alcoholic. this is still a boardgame, through and through. it's just instead of increasing the cost to include hundreds of additional cards and tokens and whatnot that you have to sort through, it let's you focus on the core of the game :)
@@rahdo Funny you mention that because I am a recovering alcoholic and i stay away from virgin drinks or non alcoholic beer, I dont have to but it just works for me. In my particular case after I just cant. And besides this thing is still like 70$. =)
@@crossfire507pty that is a fair counterpoint! coming from a family of alcoholics and drug addicts, i congratulate you on staying on the straight and narrow! :)
Excellent video Rahdo as always. Unfortunately my fears about this game came true. While watching your playthrough video I was excited at first, but then I realized how shallow it appears and the combat looks really.......dull. Just turn cards and hope there's enough successes? No tactical positioning or ways to modify your attack, just your heroes and monsters banging on each other until one dies. I can see that getting absolutely dull and repetitive. Yes dice rolling can be repetitive also, but there is a certain excitement rolling and adding attack modifiers, bonuses, etc. For $100 usd I was hoping for a little more depth than just constantly flipping cards for EVERYTHING. I'm glad there's people that like this game and are enjoying it, it just isn't for me I guess. With so much app integration I think I'd rather just play a video game instead. Plus I HATE games that put me on a timer, I want to explore and enjoy the world, not feel like I have to rush through everything. Maybe a timer for a mission here and there, but use it sparingly. Thanks for your honest opinion, again its awesome there are people enjoying it and got their money's worth, just not my cup of tea.
Soo... this or Gloomhaven? :))
Ailurus Ludens Two very different games.
@@elayeth I know, was just kidding, given the fact that Rahdo found this tedious after a while.
hmm... hmmmm... let me think... :)
Repetitive card play. Tolkien-lore destroying. Mechanics are important. Overall, not for me.
What!? hell must have frozen over... Rahdo has a less than positive review.
check niceguy.rahdo.com for more :)
Richard, you would make an AMAZING police incident councillor breaking the news of a family death to loved ones, because here you manage to knock on the door with 'FF's best design team working in fifth gear' and then the arm-of-doom comes around our shoulder to tell of the 'tedious' grind of constant tests in a game which takes ridiculous liberties with the source material. Do we really need a distracting mobile phone at a game table playing muzak, with story elements that simply don't fit with the wonderful Tolkein universe. I'm afraid I'm getting that Graham Linehan feeling all over again, when he commented that video game writers watch too many films and don't read enough books. C'mon, FF, this is simply insulting from top to toe - just accept Gloomhaven owns you and your overpriced moovie franchises.
I always check our Rahdo’s final thoughts. I was on the fence about this game and I’ve decided not to get it. I LOVE the lord of the rings, but I will pass.
Rahdo and ANY FFG game: “fantastic game BUT...”
Seen it a 100 times already. If it is not the scout system it is the dice...
The dice hate was epic a few years ago ... until a pure dice game came along and then it was superb.
Now here is a diceless combat system and he complains ... again.
Well, I can no longer wait till Rahdo catches up on my 40+ years of boardgaming experience.
What do you even expect from a self declared opinion leader who never even tried playing Twilight Struggle.
This guy simply destroys too many great boardgames.
Waste of time.
LOL, whut?
IDK, maybe being an opinion leader depends on being able to string sentences together coherently? Just a thought :D
Peter Cox Recently 2 dealers confirmed this to me: he has influence on some gamers and he acts accordingly.
oh ben, you realize if i'm a "waste of time", then you have no one but yourself to blame for wasting your very precious time on me, and spreading easily disproven lies about me?
rahdo Easely proven lies ? I know exactly how your evaluation sounds on FFG games. “Great... BUT” ... and then followed by an avalanche of complaints of why the game play is boring or silly or not so good.
Always the same record frankly. And I can give you the names of the shops that complained about it.
“We wanted to like this game, BUT ...” It used to be “too dicey” now it is another complaint, it gets tedious.
BUT....
SURE.
And yes, I think you lack a LOT of knowledge about the boardgame scene before 2000.
I said "easily disproven" actually. i already knew you don't pay attention to what i say in my videos, and instead just filter them through your own negative pre-conceptions, but I didn't realize you did this with the written word as well.
as always ben, #stayclassy