In Portuguese, when you use possession it means that you were forced to be a spirit medium, it is usually associated with possession by demons. When it is used ”incorporation” it means that the spirit medium offers his body to be possessed by a spirit. So possession in Portuguese has an extremely bad connotation, giving the ideas that the person who is processed is suffering or is forced to be in that situation
@@drangelapuca I just wanted to mention that not only that comment was completely right, but also that isn't *just* a matter of labeling, because "possession' (as opposed to "incorporation") is also used frequently, especially in evangelical churches where someone is allegedly 'possessed' by Satan or some evil spirit and the priest goes and performs and exorcism in front of the people in some spectacle-like way. Usually this is schemed previously between the priest and someone, as a way to show the powers of faith from the priest to the audience, as many of these churches are made mostly with intention to generate revenue, but this is another matter.... still, the point is that both "incorporation" and "possession" are used to mean distinctive things, and it's not just a matter of some vague negative conotation given to a label due to global influence. I mean, maybe this is one of the influences of how the distiction arrived, but it is only one small influence. Consider from other angle: since there is a lot of religions in Brazil doing some sort of spirit possession, it's natural to more terms be used to distict between them.
My teacher always told me, it's COLLABORATION with Spirit(s). There's no subjugation, sacrifice or surrender necessary, except for perhaps your ego. And the shamanic practitioner decides how much the merging is -- fully merged, 90% or 50%. I usually find 70% merging already works wonder.
Angela, thanks for this video and this interview! It was so interesting to hear about the dectic approach and about a study that was carried out in Brazil looking into the practices of the diverse groups. Being Brazilian, I couldn't agree more with professor Bettina Schmidt about the complexity of the social implications to how religious/spiritual beliefs are viewed here. There is indeed a heavy dose of stereotypification from one group to another. Furthermore, a great deal of syncretism can be seen all over the country. It is so widespread that even the groups that do not admit to involved with or being practictioners of spiritual experiences may share some of the beliefs and behaviors of those who more openly introduce themselves as such. That's why the discussion regarding the different terms used by practitioners and by scholars was so interesting!
Defining spirit possession in some Brazilian religions can be a complex task. In the Brazilian branch of Spiritism, for instance, you have "incorporation" (a process through which a spirit uses the medium's knowledge and mental atributes to communicate with the living), "channelling (when a spirit uses directly the medium's body without their mental faculties), the 3 different stages of obsession, "simple obsession", "fascination" and "subjugation", among others. To call everything "spirit possession" might sound a little simplifying, since every one of those relationships with spirits has its particularities. I understand the importance to create an umbrella term for scholars to communicate with each other though. About healing, that's very tricky. If you ask someone with little knowledge in a Spiritist Temple, they might tell you they are performing some kind of invocation that gives them special powers, but if you ask someone with a lot of study they will tell you that the only thing a medium does is provide a subtle material substance called ectoplasm and that the real work is actually done by the spirits using that substance to act on the dense plane. It's all very fascinating. Knowledge is available to all practitioners, but not all look for it. Most don´t study the lore and only practice without knowing what they are doing.
Great academic work these ladies are doing, but I don't understand why they keep going "possession... possession; but they don't call it 'possession' LOL." Why don't they just actually experiment, TRY and enter trance/ going into Non-Ordinary Reality once & contact a Helping Spirit? Any human being can do it? It's our spiritual birthright. What's stopping them from trying to understand SPIRIT in a strictly from an intellectual point of view, stuck in the head without the opening of the Heart? Was the great late Dr Michael Harner the only anthropologist who was like, screw this, let me try accessing this other realm myself...? My guru always told me, it's COLLABORATION with Spirit(s), not possession. There's no subjugation, sacrifice or surrender necessary, save perhaps your ego.
Thank you for such great content on the topic of Arcane Knowledge. I personally came across your work just today after following the great work of Justin sledge. I personally practice a form of witchcraft and have had involvement and interest in Condomble and Umbanda. So the first few videos I searched for was in witchcraft and Shamanism. This was a informative video in the topic of shamanism practice in brazil. I would like to add a few things in relation to possession or invoking orishas which ive personally experienced in ceremony. The orishas are the God and goddess of Yoruba spirituality from Nigeria which through slave trade found its way to Brazil to this day. The words, music, dance and culture come from this cultural fusion of Africans. On the topic of possession there is a word in brazil that people use when they go into a trance called Barravento. Barravento translates to the wind that blows. Barravento is also a afro brazilian rhythm which is played in ceremonies to invoke a orisha during ceremonies and used in the Brazilian Martial art of Capoeira. Capoeira was born from oppression in brazil, the slaves and the poor used it as a way to defend and empower each other from that oppression. Through the practice many cultural and religious spiritual aspects leaked into Capoeira. Like the use of a Ladainha or litany before the roda or circle starts. The ladianha is used to invoke the spirit and Axé (energy) present inside the roda of capoeira followed by the lovacao (praise) which is to praise the God or master and place in brazil. This is of course a ritual and way to invoke as mentioned of the spirit of masters in general that have passed and sometimes even the God or orishas which continue to sing through the roda. My apologies im not a academic but have great interest in the above topic. Please keep up the great work and I look forward to further content. Axé baba
My Patron deity implies that some languages have adjectives that really encapsulate the concept the spirit would like to communicate. That's why localized practitioners prefer their own diction even though it may give the impression that they simply don't want a label. I get it though, the significant amount of bad karma around the world is so thick and dark that any connection with the global community sounds terrifying.
The espiritismo I'm around is not atheist by any means it's syncretic with Christianity of white table spiritualism from France and heavy atr's and Abit of Taino elements buts I'm around Caribbean spiritualism (more Puerto Rican than Cuban) and I can safely say God is always mentioned before anything else in there Misa and also my god father does use the term possession at least when talking to me.
Try to see the first version of the film 'Dune.' The character appears to be instructed about things, but he wasn't. The moment that he wears the desert suit, the instructor asks if he had done it before, but he answers that it seems the proper way. The shaman deals with healing without instructions and other practices. After he learns by himself, the community recognizes him as a leader. How did he learn by himself? The problems are always about lessons, and most shamans get sick. The rituals are always about stimulating the power that is inside the shaman. That's why some people try and don't feel anything. It's learning without a teacher, Cure yourself without medicine, and lose yourself through the practices that will wreck the body. The possession process is always strong when the body is weak. When you want to learn or need the knowledge, it will appear out of nowhere. Coming back to the case of Dune, the character survives the initiation ritual that kills most people. Another aspect concerning the shaman child is that the old ones are able to recognize him. That makes them either protect or attack the learning individual, knowing that he will experience a near-death experience soon.
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In Portuguese, when you use possession it means that you were forced to be a spirit medium, it is usually associated with possession by demons.
When it is used ”incorporation” it means that the spirit medium offers his body to be possessed by a spirit.
So possession in Portuguese has an extremely bad connotation, giving the ideas that the person who is processed is suffering or is forced to be in that situation
Thanks for sharing!
@@drangelapuca I just wanted to mention that not only that comment was completely right, but also that isn't *just* a matter of labeling, because "possession' (as opposed to "incorporation") is also used frequently, especially in evangelical churches where someone is allegedly 'possessed' by Satan or some evil spirit and the priest goes and performs and exorcism in front of the people in some spectacle-like way. Usually this is schemed previously between the priest and someone, as a way to show the powers of faith from the priest to the audience, as many of these churches are made mostly with intention to generate revenue, but this is another matter.... still, the point is that both "incorporation" and "possession" are used to mean distinctive things, and it's not just a matter of some vague negative conotation given to a label due to global influence. I mean, maybe this is one of the influences of how the distiction arrived, but it is only one small influence. Consider from other angle: since there is a lot of religions in Brazil doing some sort of spirit possession, it's natural to more terms be used to distict between them.
@@eduardosilveira8685 thank you so much for sharing. It's all very fascinating!
@@eduardosilveira8685 am brazilian and can confirm
My teacher always told me, it's COLLABORATION with Spirit(s).
There's no subjugation, sacrifice or surrender necessary, except for perhaps your ego.
And the shamanic practitioner decides how much the merging is -- fully merged, 90% or 50%.
I usually find 70% merging already works wonder.
do the practice folks
Angela, thanks for this video and this interview!
It was so interesting to hear about the dectic approach and about a study that was carried out in Brazil looking into the practices of the diverse groups.
Being Brazilian, I couldn't agree more with professor Bettina Schmidt about the complexity of the social implications to how religious/spiritual beliefs are viewed here. There is indeed a heavy dose of stereotypification from one group to another.
Furthermore, a great deal of syncretism can be seen all over the country. It is so widespread that even the groups that do not admit to involved with or being practictioners of spiritual experiences may share some of the beliefs and behaviors of those who more openly introduce themselves as such. That's why the discussion regarding the different terms used by practitioners and by scholars was so interesting!
Very happy you liked it, Danilo! Bettina is fantastic!
Qualquer vídeo no TH-cam falando sobre aspectos da cultura brasileira vai ter um brasileiro comentando “as a Brazilian…” kkkkk
Great interview!
this was very informative, thank you!
thanks
Defining spirit possession in some Brazilian religions can be a complex task. In the Brazilian branch of Spiritism, for instance, you have "incorporation" (a process through which a spirit uses the medium's knowledge and mental atributes to communicate with the living), "channelling (when a spirit uses directly the medium's body without their mental faculties), the 3 different stages of obsession, "simple obsession", "fascination" and "subjugation", among others. To call everything "spirit possession" might sound a little simplifying, since every one of those relationships with spirits has its particularities. I understand the importance to create an umbrella term for scholars to communicate with each other though.
About healing, that's very tricky. If you ask someone with little knowledge in a Spiritist Temple, they might tell you they are performing some kind of invocation that gives them special powers, but if you ask someone with a lot of study they will tell you that the only thing a medium does is provide a subtle material substance called ectoplasm and that the real work is actually done by the spirits using that substance to act on the dense plane. It's all very fascinating. Knowledge is available to all practitioners, but not all look for it. Most don´t study the lore and only practice without knowing what they are doing.
very interesting. Thanks, Alexandre.
Great academic work these ladies are doing, but I don't understand why they keep going "possession... possession; but they don't call it 'possession' LOL."
Why don't they just actually experiment, TRY and enter trance/ going into Non-Ordinary Reality once & contact a Helping Spirit? Any human being can do it? It's our spiritual birthright.
What's stopping them from trying to understand SPIRIT in a strictly from an intellectual point of view, stuck in the head without the opening of the Heart?
Was the great late Dr Michael Harner the only anthropologist who was like, screw this, let me try accessing this other realm myself...?
My guru always told me, it's COLLABORATION with Spirit(s), not possession. There's no subjugation, sacrifice or surrender necessary, save perhaps your ego.
Great point
awesome!
Thank you! Cheers!
Thank you for such great content on the topic of Arcane Knowledge. I personally came across your work just today after following the great work of Justin sledge.
I personally practice a form of witchcraft and have had involvement and interest in Condomble and Umbanda. So the first few videos I searched for was in witchcraft and Shamanism.
This was a informative video in the topic of shamanism practice in brazil. I would like to add a few things in relation to possession or invoking orishas which ive personally experienced in ceremony.
The orishas are the God and goddess of Yoruba spirituality from Nigeria which through slave trade found its way to Brazil to this day. The words, music, dance and culture come from this cultural fusion of Africans.
On the topic of possession there is a word in brazil that people use when they go into a trance called Barravento. Barravento translates to the wind that blows. Barravento is also a afro brazilian rhythm which is played in ceremonies to invoke a orisha during ceremonies and used in the Brazilian Martial art of Capoeira.
Capoeira was born from oppression in brazil, the slaves and the poor used it as a way to defend and empower each other from that oppression. Through the practice many cultural and religious spiritual aspects leaked into Capoeira.
Like the use of a Ladainha or litany before the roda or circle starts. The ladianha is used to invoke the spirit and Axé (energy) present inside the roda of capoeira followed by the lovacao (praise) which is to praise the God or master and place in brazil. This is of course a ritual and way to invoke as mentioned of the spirit of masters in general that have passed and sometimes even the God or orishas which continue to sing through the roda.
My apologies im not a academic but have great interest in the above topic. Please keep up the great work and I look forward to further content.
Axé baba
thank you very much, it means a lot!
Hey let’s do an episode about Quimbanda
Complimenti
grazie
Citou o Brasil, já apareço
My Patron deity implies that some languages have adjectives that really encapsulate the concept the spirit would like to communicate. That's why localized practitioners prefer their own diction even though it may give the impression that they simply don't want a label.
I get it though, the significant amount of bad karma around the world is so thick and dark that any connection with the global community sounds terrifying.
thanks for sharing
The espiritismo I'm around is not atheist by any means it's syncretic with Christianity of white table spiritualism from France and heavy atr's and Abit of Taino elements buts I'm around Caribbean spiritualism (more Puerto Rican than Cuban) and I can safely say God is always mentioned before anything else in there Misa and also my god father does use the term possession at least when talking to me.
Shaman word is like a chair.
The same all over the world but with different names.
Try to see the first version of the film 'Dune.'
The character appears to be instructed about things, but he wasn't.
The moment that he wears the desert suit, the instructor asks if he had done it before, but he answers that it seems the proper way.
The shaman deals with healing without instructions and other practices. After he learns by himself, the community recognizes him as a leader.
How did he learn by himself? The problems are always about lessons, and most shamans get sick.
The rituals are always about stimulating the power that is inside the shaman. That's why some people try and don't feel anything.
It's learning without a teacher,
Cure yourself without medicine, and lose yourself through the practices that will wreck the body.
The possession process is always strong when the body is weak.
When you want to learn or need the knowledge, it will appear out of nowhere.
Coming back to the case of Dune, the character survives the initiation ritual that kills most people.
Another aspect concerning the shaman child is that the old ones are able to recognize him. That makes them either protect or attack the learning individual, knowing that he will experience a near-death experience soon.
It's not a religion; it's only a name for a path.
ce la facciamo con i pezzi grossi ormai :-D
We scè :-P