Absolutely love this, especially the discussion re: woman and jam sessions/the male-dominated jazz spaces! It was a discussion sorely lacking in my own video, so thank you. One of the reasons why I highlighted Emmet's Place in particular is that he's good about being inclusive in ways that traditionally aren't super jazz (episode 60 pride episode, ex). There is still a lot of work to be done to create new spaces and expand existing spaces to accept more gender diversity, but there is progress. That said, I realize the ambivalence towards me at the end of my Laufey video inviting her to jazz jams. I know how absurd that might feel and seem when the jazz community can be so toxic, and honestly, I don't blame her and others for saying "fuck jazz, stop the gatekeeping, I hate this culture." I get it. Complicated. Do you mind if I share/signal boost this video?
hi adam! i'm so glad to hear you enjoyed this and also thank you for making your own video. it really inspired me to say my piece about this as well. very much agree that progress is being done. emmet's place being a great example of the shift in mindset. i would be honored if you shared this video. much love!
Adam Neely is right. When talking about music the most important thing is to virtue signal. He missed that opportunity in his video and, therefore, failed.
There’s one thing that I think is glazed over in both of your videos: The skill barrier. There is enormous elitism around different echelons of skill within the community, and most vibing and gate keeping takes place along that axis. You are being judged in real time for your technical abilities, the depth of harmonic vocabulary, even your creative and aesthetic choices. (I’ve even seen Patrick Bartley vibed for his creative and aesthetic decisions to include Jpop and vgm in his playing) They’re both great videos and it’s wonderful that we’re bringing the cultural issues to the forefront, but I feel like there’s an awkward truth here that threatens to undercut all of the cultural elements at play. If you can’t hang, you’re getting vibed. You are going to walk away from the bandstand with the feeling that you are not worthy. That’s the majority of the real gate keeping that has been going on for years and likely one of the largest reasons Laufey is calling Jazz a “gatekept” space. That’s not to discount what you’re saying. I’m just surprised that nobody is really talking about it.
My only issue with the criticism of Laufey is that maybe she just doesn't want to do straight jazz. Everyone telling her to immerse herself with other jazz musicians doesn't take any account about what she wants. She is making the type of music she wants. Yes, it has jazz elements, but it's her own thing. And maybe, just maybe that's all she wants to do is continue combining her love of musical theater and jazz into one.
100% agree. She has said in past interviews that she’s a huge Taylor Swift fan because of the way she tells stories through her songs. And so Laufey wanted to combine story telling in the kind of music style she grew up listening to (jazz/classical), but also, adding a modern twist to appeal to the new generation. Of course, she needs to have her own unique style to stand out and I think she did a great job at achieving that. Obviously if her style was just straight up jazz, she will not be as popular with the gen z crowd. Also, since she enjoyed listening to jazz/classical as a child, she felt like an outsider because that wasn’t what other kids were listening to. So now through her music, she wants to inspire kids of today and send the message that if they want to listen to jazz or whatever music they like, that they shouldn’t feel ashamed, even if it’s not what other people are listening to these days.
I strongly agree! What happened to jazz being inclusive lol?The fact that this question is even brought up is gatekeeping her from jazz. I agree with the creator of this video, as she states this question is uninteresting and it leads to uninteresting answers.
she's categorized as jazz singer to make it easier to recognize for larger audiences but i don't think she's just jazz but she had more pop sound in her album Typical of Me and has deep understanding of classical music. she's jazz/classic/pop all combined and making completely new genre for pop audiences. that's why people are discussing her i guess.
Her music is a jazz tangent, like Jobim and so many other commercially produced artists. And, like Jobim, she's one collaboration away from entering the community. The most important take away is that this debate is an uninteresting one. The big picture is that she's sparked conversation and interest in "jazz" for a new generation. How insecure is our community that we have to fight over what outsiders label our music, to the point of ostracizing listeners ready to embrace it
Outsiders only Label Laufey as jazz so that they can feel sophisticated for the most part. As Patrick Bartley would say, why do outsiders NEED Laufey to be jazz? Think about that for a minute. Genuinely the only reason I can think of is they are following the pack and don't know better, or because people who don't listen to jazz have this idea of jazz as being classy and sophisticated and makes you unique and special to be a part of. I think it's much more likely they want to say they're a part of that than they want to go to a jazz club and actually be a part of it. I think if you're seriously arguing this, you didn't bother listening to anything in this video or the Adam Neely one. People calling Laufey jazz detracts greatly from the actual jazz community that she herself declares is dead. Well of course you'd think something is dead if you've never participated in it and went out of your way to do so. Imagine Laufey making older jazz rap beats in the 90s style like Q-Tip or Dilla and calling her the savior of rap simply because her style is a little older and she doesn't listen to modern rap? Absurd right? Especially to be calling a white person this is just....wow.
@@fritzjackson4336 what? how is she detracting "greatly"? by getting more people interested in it? by not putting enough swing in her rhythm section? absolutely missing the forest for the trees when you have young people lined up for music that, isn't just referencing jazz vocabulary, but actively using it and you get hung up on stupid things like whether or not she's fully "jazz" or not. and i'm extremely curious how you are quantifying what "detracts greatly from the actual jazz community" and how random articles saying she's a savior has done that. just enjoy the music, or dont
@@fritzjackson4336 I specifically called her music a "jazz tangent." See above. And "outsiders" call her music "jazz" because, on the surface, it sounds like jazz. Its really that simple.
@@circles79 Meh. Not buying it. That's very much a forced conversation, and quite different than the examples you gave. The topic of conversation is "is this jazz"? No one even agrees where she fits, not to mention she's apparently been outright rejected by the jazz community. The hype will die down, and jazz will continue to thrive under the mainstream radar without a second thought of Laufey. With the examples of VI and Elvis, they were a part of the music, there's no question about that. If you want to argue that they were being heavily promoted as the face of the music at the time, sure, but history today remembers VI as the dude from the Ninja Turtles movie, and talks about Elvis for other reasons, but not for "inventing rock and roll." You might as well be saying Phil Woods was the face of hard bop... Anyway, forcing important conversations on topics like "is Laufey jazz" diminishes the importance of those conversations. Lets not do that.
I'm convinced that Laufey will change the music industry in the future, but I don't know if her career will move to other genres. In terms of her mid-century pop, I'm sure she want to do something different. In the Zach podcast, she really inspired her career like Taylor Swift did by changing her career from country pop star to pop star in my opinion.
Laufey’s music isn’t jazz. Its more in line with American modern romantic. It’s not her fault people describe her genre is jazz. This piece of navel gazing has more in common with pseudo academic scholarship.
@@mikeevans6344 you must be new here. American romantic is just a description. Not yet another genre. Is this jazz? Hell no! If one must have a label you might consider American ballads or even pop! But jazz? LOL! Gen Z etc has so little idea of jazz.
I saw her live...she is great❤❤❤...she herself does not label as a jazz musician...she said, she loves classical music, jazz and pop...and loves to combine all three...I heard many different influences in her music
Just found your channel from watching you sing Shiki No Uta, and now I'm loving these topics! I love jazz, but have never talked about it with anyone since it's mostly absent in my culture (Brazilian).
This was an incredible video, Mitamu! Loved the way you tell this stories and your point of view, fantastic editing as well. I'd love to see more of this
I think in order to have a proper discussion of whether it's jazz or not, there is an important distinction to be made between playing jazz as in - a bunch of musicians get up on stage and say "let's play Cherokee" or whatever, and the concept of having a repertoire of jazz standards, the kinds of harmony we associate with this type of music (pre-bebop at least) and so on. Now, we can argue about the term "jazz standard" and is an Irving Berlin song or a Cole Porter song in itself jazz. But is Laufey, as a young singer songwriter following more in their steps or the steps of John Coltrane or Charlie Parker? The answer seems quite obvious to me, so why is everybody focusing on people like Miles Davis or Dizzy Gillespie? That's just not what she does. It's a completely different kind of music. It's like, if you compare Sinatra to Miles Davis. Not much in common even in the same time period. As for Laufey, there's obviously nothing wrong with writing songs in that style, that's very clearly what she likes, the Gershwin or Jobim type of tune, the problem arrives when that gets automatically classified as jazz. And both Laufey, and the media get it wrong because of the confusing terminology and lack of consensus on these topics. Is it really a big deal though, is the public going to forget what jazz is about because of her? Probably not. (Although the Tiktok community might be hopeless).
i can see why some people might be annoyed when Laufey is called the savior of jazz. As someone who doesn’t typically listen to jazz, I find her music easy to listen to, which suggests to me that it's more pop with a touch of jazz rather than pure jazz. And I hope she doesn’t change. Maybe they should just call her pop jazz.
Laufey is making music, and you guys complain about media and artists. This is why Laufey is so successful because she focus on music not other things. It's totally distasteful and unclassy to backstab other artists.
incredible that neither this video or adam neelys video say anything about the generally inaccessible cost of elite music conservatories. If anything is gatekeeping people from jazz it’s $50,000 yearly tuitions
we can definitely talk about that in a separate video and the gatekeeping of music education in general. unfortunately, we can’t cover everything at a single time but doesn’t mean it’s not worth addressing. thanks!
Those costs are outrageous, but I would argue that a lot of Jazz artists of the 20th century didn't have that sort of formal education. As a self taught musician, there are enough resources on this very platform that can get you there!
@@adampitt9311 i agree with you! Most of the 20th century jazz performers seemed to be educated in non academic environments. This laufey discourse is about professional and performing jazz (or pop) musicians in the 21st century - most of which seem to have(need) education from elite institutions i’m self learning right now and there are definitely enough resources lol maybe too many
Dude I’ve been learning jazz for about five years now, and never had to go to music college. There’s so much information available out there, for free. In my opinion,the most valuable thing that music college may give you is network, but if you really like jazz and you work hard you’ll find your way into the scene. Parker didn’t have to pay $50,000 in tuition to become one of the greatest musicians to have ever lived. If you really like this tradition, you’ll find your way in.
I don’t think that the jazz conservatories are the problem, considering the whole of upper education in America is that expensive and all that. It’s not jazz education it’s the educational system that’s the problem
Both my daughters are aspiring jazz vocalists. As a professional musician, no way would I want them at any jam session. You bring up a great point here.
i think laufey is less a savior of jazz and more packaged it for a new audience and generation. making more relatable or modern to help people get into jazz. she's incredibly talented and i don't think she deserves the hate for the articles and people calling her a "savior", the news outlets do. and educating people about jazz culture is a good way to get more people (of all races and backgrounds) into jazz
oh, I didn't know that bebop was the "gatekeeper" style. It was the style that made me fall in love with jazz and change my high gain amplifier for a clean one. Also, it seems to me, as a fairly new jazz follower, that the comunal culture you describe is not that different from the metal community I come from.
hmm…i don’t know if i would call it the “gatekeeper” style. that also doesn’t sound right 😂. i think it feels that way because it is complex music. it’s innovative with a lot of beautiful musical language embedded in it! also, it’s not exclusive. you had people teaching each other this new way of playing in a very beautiful way. it only started feeling exclusive when that air of elitism (which i mainly blame the press) started appearing. really cool to hear that the metal community is kinda like this too!
This situation reminds me of the Eminem case all over again. Saying laufey isnt a jazz artist is actually pretty much saying eminem is not a hiphop artist.
But Eminem is making hip hop. His music is rap and hip hop he grew up with the culture he’s just white. Laufey is a classical artist who went to Berkeley studying classical music lol. When she incorporated jazzy elements in her songs suddenly she’s the “jazz savior”. I think the issue is she’s being mislabeled. She should be called “classical theatre savior” or something.
@@baibiebaibea9740 Well using your perpsective, then maybe Laufey is both jazz and classical artist at the same time. Both genre is not a stranger of each other, jazz and classical had intersect many times before. I agree that saying Laufey as "the jazz saviour" is a little bit of a stretch. But at the end of the day, she still considered as a Jazz artist tho. She had all of the element of a Jazz artist.
I loved this video!! And agreed with all your points!! As a jazz guitarist and bassist , I do feel that men do take me less seriously as a guitarist, and prefer me to play bass- even though I’ve been playing guitar much longer and prefer it lol
Conversations about music & race always get weird. For some reason, if an ethnic group develops the earliest form of a musical genre that eventually gets taken up by multiple other groups and perhaps individuals of all demographics, that entire genre gets listed as belonging to the first group who worked on the ideas. If this is really taken to its extreme, then calculus is English & German culture and we're all appropriating when we use modern technology. White washing would be when someone rewrites history to erase all of the non-whites who participated. The fact that a modern musician who isn't black excels at music that racists think belongs to one ethnic group alone is not white-washing.
I JUST WANT TO SAY: "SHE IS SAVING POP! NOT JAZZ!" THERE HAVE NEVER BEEN SO MANY JAZZ MUSICANS LIKE TODAY AND THERE WILL BE MORE TOMORROW! BUT STILL I LOVE❤ LAUFEY
And sorry but Jazz is as much White as its Black it s 50/50 western Harmonie and African Rythem and one off the best ways to integrade Our diffrent culters! Every Culter off humanity Belongs to every Humanbeing
Gatekeeping is a word that gets thrown around way too much and I'm really sorry but you don't have enough experience to be ragging on anyone. I also didn't appreciate some of the thoughts you shared about girls not getting treated fairly at jam sessions. I personally went out of my way to make you feel welcome and supported at my session for years but I guess you forgot
I think the general public doesn't know the difference between jazz and easy listening. Musicians like Kenny G and Nora Jones are examples of people who have been branded jazz but they are not. Although you can use the same instruments and sing in a similar vocal style doesn't make it jazz. The orchestrations also seem more like a classical that's trying to play in a jazz style. It kind of reminds me of big band except these new recordings don't have the swing nor the improv that are essential to true jazz. Laufey's videos looks like their teenage pop music videos and have nothing to do with jazz although the melody and words are identical. Jazz is alive and doesn't need saving. There are many unknown players, or rather less known musicians, that keep the torch burning true to their roots even if they are relatively unknown to the public.
Who gives a damn if she's non-black and being called "the savior of jazz" it's not that deep lmao. Maybe she isn't, but I couldn't care less. I just want to listen to music in peace without people being upset about musicians for no reason, or things beyond their control. Just enjoy the music.
I’m not sure I would call her music “jazz.” I think it fits more into the genre of mid 20th century popular music of the style that could be heard in musicals and on the radio in roughly the 1930’s through the 1960’s. Jazz, to me implies at least a degree of improvisation. Laufey’s music is more like the style of Judy Garland, Frank Sinatra or even Barbara Streisand.
These discussions on what is and isn’t jazz move further and further away from it’s true essence. It is the most beautiful and complex, rich, multicultural, interesting and evolving art form the world has ever seen. Attempting to lock it into some form of strict cultural box is like caging a wild bird. Jazz can be loved, and should be explored, by anyone who is drawn to listen.
I’ve been into jazz for 15 years or more and I can say as a black person I was always in majority white spaces to see live jazz. Not only that but the few black people there and the whites were really arrogant about it- as if I shouldn’t be there. It was a lot like the cotton club culture. Regardless, I go out and do what I do. But on the topic, I think it’s been white washed. Separately I think Laufy is a pretty good writer and has good vocal control. I like her timbre. That is very separate from how the music machine chooses to sell artist to the public. The music machine is of course entitling people to behave as they do.
I’m not sure whether it’s a problem that she is known as the saviour of jazz music because rock music is a black genre and the genre has been completely white washed and there’s always articles saying this band is the future of rock or whatever and they’re obviously white musicians most the time
While it's great that videos like this can be made to express opinions, I cannot agree with much in this particular video. Note: I _do_ agree with the need to make jams and other such spaces inviting and safe across all boundaries. At the end of the day, we should strive for a reductionist understanding of genres. What that entails can vary: It can rely on a description of the music just using music theory, descriptions of sonority and timbre and so on. Or it can rely on stating what legacy of other music some music is similar to or makes references to. Or it can rely on simply saying "I know it when I hear it". But it should not rely on topics that are normally associated with identity politics. Genres should also be utilitarian. At the time someone uses the name of a genre, it needs to serve a purpose for the person saying it, and for the intended audience. Often-times, the person speaking is a musician or a music journalist etc. And often-times, the audience is the general public. So when the name of a genre is used, its purpose is to give a quick hint at what kind of music is being talked about, using words that the intended audience is likely to be familiar with.
As a black person who thoroughly enjoys jazz since birth, I actually thank Laufey. I believe that when they mean reviving jazz they mean in this generation which I'm strongly apart of. despite the race, I'm sure anyone of any culture is allowed to be made by anyone.. as long as people remember and keep in mind where it originates.
hi and thanks for commenting. laufey is great for bringing the genre to more listeners. that is explained well in adam’s video too. and i agree, it’s important to know where the music originates because like any culture, it’s important to give respect to it. l opted for the more icelandic pronunciation of her name. she gives two pronunciation guides in her interview with elle
The likes of Nora Jones and Esperanza Spalding have at some point or the other in the past 20 years been called the saviour of jazz (even though Jones was more pop than jazz imho)I think the real problem here is always viewing EVERYTHING from the perspective of identity politics. There's too much of that kind of negativity going round in the world.
Laufey is clearly a throwback to the golden age of pop singers mingling with jazz but I don't hear any of the consistent elements of jazz in her music. Perhaps the fact that she sings songs that are slightly more harmonically complex makes her music sound "Jazzy", but her songs align far more with the showtunes of Broadway that also happen to overlap with much of jazz music. I think she is analogous to what Amy Winehouse did with classic soul music. She provided a kind of nostalgic recreation, which was very genuine and well crafted but was a very clear and intentional act.
Exactly. The appeal is well crafted nostalgia and kitsch. The label jazz is slapped on because there is no other commonly used term for this sort of retro genre. I enjoy that this whole mislabeling thing seems to be spawning a bunch of discussion of cultural history and present day culture, but that doesn’t need to happen on Laufey’s back, just let her make her kitschy tunes and move into a different discussion space. The fact that some content creators are writing “is Laufey the savior of jazz” etc simply because she appears in this Spotify category is mind meltingly stupid
@@lizardmix There is always attempts to push Jazz into a cultural spotlight, but I think most forms of jazz just aren’t capable of being neatly packaged and presented as a mass music like pop or rock. That’s why artists like Laufey get backlash when they are labeled as “jazz” because they have become unwilling martyrs for the cause of bringing jazz any type of attention. I think it brings good and bad. “Any press is good press” certainly applied, and maybe Laufey introduces some people to enjoy music that is vaguely jazz. On the other hand, I don’t think she is a very good representation of the jazz genre, and like the video mentions she really isn’t a jazz artist in the strict sense of the term. 🤷🏼
i think this video is very well put! i am both an avid laufey and jazz fan, and i think it is clear how some of her music takes inspiration from jazz (i think of Dreamer for example), but i totally agree that it’s extremely misleading to say she ONLY draws inspo from jazz, therefore solely making her a jazz musician. there’s absolutely elements of classical, pop, showtune, etc in her music. i think laufey is a beautiful mix of all of these, and there’s great overlap between them all. the issue is that people see glimpses of jazz in laufey’s music, and instead of exploring more of the genre, they just stop at laufey and claim her as jazz, and this is simply due to ignorance, but that’s dangerous! i hope some of these people pushing laufey as some new standard for jazz realize that not only are they discrediting the rich black roots and themes of jazz, but they’re actually totally disregarding laufey’s unique and personal sound.
I don’t really get this take honestly. Jazz has always taken inspiration from pop and classical. Did everyone forget that Gershwin created a whole songbook of what became jazz standards or something? Or that My Favorite Things, a pop song, is a jazz standard? Laufey is literally no different in that regard. Miles Davis in the 1980s literally just straight up covered a bunch of contemporary pop of the era in his live shows. Is that not jazz somehow? Being trained classically doesn’t mean you aren’t jazz. I guess that means Nina Simone, Herbie Hancock, Hiromi Uehara, Keith Jarrett, and multitudes of others aren’t jazz anymore. Oops! Is Allen Toussaint, one of the biggest popularizers and proponents of the New Orleans sound over the past 70 years, not jazz because he also loved to make R&B albums and wrote songs for pop artists? Laughable take. This is actually the real reason jazz isn’t popular anymore. The “jazz culture” is a bunch of elitists that took over the genre in the 70s and 80s with regressive definitions (Wynton Marsalis as well as white dominated academia). No one wants to associate with jazz snobs.
I love this ‘mid-century pop’ term for Laufey… she is an incredible talent, writing beautiful songs - and is hugely popular… A jazzy musician - not a jazz musician! And if through her, young people discover the jazz greats, then she may well be saving jazz!
She's absolutely a jazz musician. You just can't handle her not being 100% jazz. Jazz people are so cringe for this very reason. It's ironic since the expansion of jazz was hinged on it changing and evolving.
@@WaitingForTheHook Not being Jazz doesn't equate to not good. She writes good music, but there's nothing wrong with her music not being Jazz. I think you are the cringy one for thinking if someone says something is not Jazz they must be shitting on the music. I mean I can say her music is not Metal. That doesn't mean I'm saying she's shit artist. I think it's your own insecurity seeping out.
I agree with your conclusion but your "evidence" is weak at best. Someone not being black isn't a way to validate your argument that they aren't jazz or the savior of jazz. I watched Adam Neely's video and his evidence is a bit better presented but falls on the same assertion. Nonblack = not able to hold the title. Laufey isn't jazz by my definition because her music is pop. it is made for the sake of being as popular as possible within its own genre. It's jazz-pop to me, because it still has jazz elements. What "jazz elements" are is blurry and subjective. No solid argument can be made for the line of what is jazz and what isn't without excluding a lot of jazz musicians and including a lot of non-jazz musicians. Either accept that music like this can't be put in a neat little box, or face the fact that this discussion is pointless, entirely subjective, and demeaning to a ton of people. I understand that your video was more about her being called the savior of jazz and why she shouldn't be, but you still didn't really give any good arguments apart from "shes not black, therefore it would be whitewashing to say she is lifting jazz out of a 5 foot grave." which in a way is true but why? because jazz originated in black american culture? Rock also originated in black american and european culture yet the biggest figures of it are all white guys and no one has an issue with it. I do not wish to be rude or anything while saying this, but this video (and Adam's) are pretty weak, even as a regular viewer of his content and a second-time viewer of yours. you both have done great work on other videos, but these aren't really built on any foundation, regardless of who agrees with the conclusion or not.
While Adam mentioned race for historical context (good), I don’t think his argument was race-centric at all. His two main arguments were 1) based on musical style, Laufey is drawing more from 1950s pop and musical theater than from straightforward jazz, and 2) based on community, Laufey isn’t communicating or collaborating with other jazz musicians. DOMi & JD Beck are young white musicians, but they easily pass both of these tests. Edit: I will add that I’m similarly iffy on the “we shouldn’t call Laufey the savior of jazz because she’s white”. On one hand there is a long history of white artists intentionally or unintentionally stealing the spotlight from black musicians, simply because the majority of Americans were more comfortable with someone who looked like them. On the other hand, it is entirely possible that the musician who is doing the best job introducing jazz to a new generation could be white. If it’s true, it’s true. (Although it’s not Laufey, for the reasons stated above.) Edit 2: And for what it’s worth, I think the gender-related point - jazz instrumentalists are mainly men, which can make it difficult for women to feel comfortable at jam sessions - is entirely reasonable. No real dissent from me there.
This whole “she can’t be the savior because she’s white” thing is a bit tired in my opinion. She isn’t jazz’s savior but that has nothing to do with the fact that she’s white. I think that’s just too much focus on optics for optics sake.
It's not fully about her being white. Laufey is Chinese also(mom). And she's not the savior of Jazz but... What she is a person that has embrace music for music-sake by blending/taking "cues" from Jazz and other musical forms and develop a style that she can represent for herself to share to the world. And music is just that... A way to share feeling, thoughts, and etc to anyone that is willing to listen. The reality is about Jazz not only being an genre but about a CULTURE. People don't like when people or in this case the fans, overlook(lack of knowledge also) the culture that represent Jazz or any other music genre. There need to be a basic understanding that music, in some forms, does and will always represent CULTURE/History. Hopefully Laufey will do more focusing of the "culture" of Jazz. This can help or at least make some of her fans to spend time listening to Jazz from cultural mindset. For me music in general showcase culture and the love of music in general. Laufey is wonderful for what is doing for HER musical taste. She is helping but she can do more. After all, she is young and has her whole life to spend on growing her love for music, regardless of the genre. ❤💯
@@MA-rk2om I don’t see why there’s anything wrong with the whole La La Land thing. I’ve heard people try to explain why it’s wrong but I simply don’t agree. Maybe you can do a good job?
I agree, ( I'm black/ male) and while I do believe that the "savior" epithet is taking it too far ( just look at any of her youtube or tiktok comment sections), her race or background really has nothing to do with the matter. I'm not denying that the savior complex isn't true for some however. For me it's moreso the new listeners thinking the genre needs saving or what she's doing is somehow revolutionary, its fine just how it is.
Yeah the vibe here is coming off as like an amateur college humanities essay that is pretty much only deriving arguments from race and gender. Not a lot being said outside of commentary on that. What she's saying is right, but not always for the right reasons. A lot of this is just not supported by theory or concepts, just claiming things are the way they are because race and gender and personal experience. The whole thing about her not being the savior because she is white is A) erasing her intersectional identity (mixed race people exist) and B) just kinda racist in its own way as well. It comes off like a person being like "this taco isn't authentic because it was made by a white person" meanwhile literally talking about roy choi.
It feels wrong to call Laufey the savior of Jazz especially with artist like Samara Joy. Samara Joy who has won awards for her music and gives you that classic Jazz feeling while still being modern. I like both Samara and Laufey but Samara was the first on stage with a jazz performance at the Grammys so she would seem to be the "reviver" of Jazz, at least closer to mainstream and for younger people. It is clear thought why people would ignore Samara but love Laufey. It's not the first time but I hope it's the last. (Samara is also one of two Jazz singers to win best new artist in all of history at the Grammys which is hard considering Jazz isn't even considered popular right now. If that doesn't say modern Jazz pioneer, I don't know what will)
@@Woodsarasthat is laughably naive and patently wrong, a savior of what, black people? Go back and watch the whole video again. You probably think Taylor Swift makes her own music. SMDH
I would also say that both of these women can only be seen as "saving" jazz if being at the top of the charts or lauded by white award shows was the goal in the first place. If that was never the goal, jazz never needed saving
@@colin-nekritz Nah, I think MichaelJamesCollins point is unironically correct. Sure Samara Joy won a Grammy, but jazz already has the kind of prestige that comes from winning awards. Basically everybody these days considers jazz to be highbrow, esteemed, respectable, etc. The challenge that jazz faces in 2023 isn't that it's not prestigious enough, it's that it isn't popular with young people. (As opposed to hip hop, which is incredibly popular but has only recently started to be considered "prestigious".) So the "savior" of jazz is going to be whatever jazz musician(s) are most popular with younger listeners. And on that metric, Laufey easily beats Samara Joy. (Then again, I agree that Laufey's music is mid-century pop rather than jazz) Edit: Thundercat might be a better example of a musician who is decently popular with young people while also being deep in the jazz scene, except that his biggest songs are obviously his funk-R&B songs rather than his jazzier instrumentals
@@nolaffinmatter Thank you. It's clear a lot of people are trying to answer the question of who the is or is not the savior of jazz, without any idea what it is jazz needs saving from.
I think by "saving jazz" a lot of these commenters mean "making jazz mainstream and 'accessible' (to white people and those outside the jazz community) again, like it used to be". Unfortunately, for many of us, that time period is not considered quite so golden. It's Lala Land all over again. Save jazz from the black people and the music heads who don't use it right
Thanks. Great insights presented very articulately (articulatetly? :) ). I do wonder how comfortable Laufey is with being "the saviour of jazz"? I'm guessing this was not her goal when she set out and she was just making music in a style she liked and meant something to her.
same thoughts like I’m aware about her sentiments about jazz but the media portrayal of her being “the savior of jazz” is i think beyond her… unless she dismisses it or smthn
I think also an interesting thing to note is that for a long time women in jazz were mostly vocalist and handful of pianists. Although now things are changing for the better especially in NYC from what I've seen, but even in the New York scene it's not very common to see a women drummers. There's such a weird toxic masculinity around what instruments women are allowed to play, and a lot of the standard jazz instruments are gendered to be masculine.
yes! i have some thoughts around that too. in short (and only a part of the story) much of music education has been gatekept in the past. women didn’t have access to music literacy and singing was the most accessible form of music-making. interestingly, churches were a place where women cultivated their music education it is very strange how gender is assigned to instruments too. i’m really curious and would really like to understand why that it since it feels so arbitrary!
@@mitamu Absolutely. I honestly think the gendering of instruments is just loud/big = masculine. Which is truly just caveman brain thinking. Lastly, I think there's horn player/anti-vocalist elitism. A lot of instrumental jazz musicians look down on vocalists, and a lot of it I believe comes down to your second point of B*tch, but also I do think as with Laufey comes from the fact that vocalist often are inspired not by the black tradition of the music but from the more accessible, white-washed mid-century pop. Horn players and rhythm section can't find idols to follow in mid-century pop, as their roles are so minimized in that form of music. So, I think it's a phenomena that is rather nuanced.
I was actually just reading and thinking about the gender imbalances in instruments yesterday, because I was talking to my parents and my sister and we realized that our parents pushed all 3 of us into different instruments from what we first wanted. My brother wanted to play flute, and they pushed him to trombone, and my sister wanted to play drums and they pushed her to flute. It wasn’t out of them feeling it was wrong to play the other instrument, but because they thought they’d be made fun of for playing the other instrument. Both eventually ended up switching to what they wanted and then later quit band and stopped playing altogether. For me, I don’t think it was a gender thing. I wanted an alto sax and my parents made me choose the trumpet. My mom says it was because they couldn’t afford a sax.
Thank you for this video. Maybe I can provide some old fart perspective 😃. As a child in the 70s I saw the older people feel the brunt of their creativity being appropriated with whites making millions and the black’s being poorer for it. From swing to early jazz to blues to rock and roll which has its basis in the blues and so forth. That can generate a lot of resentment in a community where a group’s creativity is constantly marginalized. I’m happy to see that the zoomers are much more open and accepting so in this light I think we can discuss jazz from my point of view (as an old fart). For me, I keep things simple. Does it make my head bob, and does the artist improvise. Laufey does the first but not the second. I like her music as it makes my head bob, but she’s not improvising within the verses. For a good example of what I mean, listen to some Carmen McRae. Improvising within the verse comes from the old style black gospel tradition. Which is why singers like Aretha sound like they do. This isn’t some awful thing as there are excellent jazz singers out there, Samara Joy as one of the excellent young singers for example. Anyway music is music. Enjoy it and celebrate the artist creating it.
just out of curiosity, was there ever a discussion like this when Norah Jones was very popular around the time she won the best album grammy? whether she is the “saviour of jazz” etc? was jazz dying back then as well?
That’s a really good question. Just off the top of my head- but if memory serves me Norah wasn’t marketed at Blue Note records “jazz” she was adult contemporary/ easy listening played in Starbucks. For Norah I think her timing was everything. She has a unique story to begin with. From her very famous father to the moment she broke the mainstream. Her song Don’t Know Why came out during a very introspective moment in the US grieving 9/11. It was very soothing music. There are theories about that post 9/11 moment perfect for her “jazzy” Starbucks songs. But I have no memory of Blue Note mark in ting her as a “jazz savior” This sounds more like Ryan Gosling in La La Land than Norah
Norah Jones was a huge coup for Blue Note records after a period of “Jazz is dead” sentiment following the neoclassical wave of treating jazz like classical music. I wouldn’t be surprised if she was absolutely anointed jazz’s savior or something else like that. I wonder if a veteran jazz journalist like Nate Chinen would be willing to speak to this
Your thoughts on jazz not being a space for women are something I've been trying to put into words for a while. I've been so interested in jazz (my school has a super amazing jazz program) but I feel like it's near impossible for me to participate in it, when there are boys already involved who can play just as well as me. Also, what you said about women being "an accessory" to men in jazz is so true, to the point that there was a teacher at my school who told the "jazz boys" to not bring their girlfriends into the band room because the girls make them seem "less professional." Thank you for saying it like it is on a topic I know so many girls and women (myself included) are wary to speak out on.
hi there! i’m so glad that that part of the video resonated with you. i’m also so sorry to hear that this is the environment that your teacher is choosing to cultivate. it’s a terrible message your teacher is sending. i think more of us are starting to question those dated ways of thinking and create spaces for us when historically there wasn’t!
It's two different issues. I would assume the "girlfriends" in questions aren't there to jam and practice, so it would be less professional for them to participate.
The jazz scene in the past was a very hostile, misogynistic environment. There's a recorded interview with Stan Getz out there where he straight up says "Jazz is a man's game."
@@chizhang2765 I would make a Yoko joke, but the assumption is they're not even there to participate, just for the guy to show off to which is a terrible part of the culture of young jazz musicians. Comes off as very egotistical and shows you're not participating for the music, but for the accolades. These are the types of people who vibes on others.
When laufey sits down to write a song, is she really asking the question, is it jazz, am I saving jazz, what genre of music should it fit neatly into? For anyone to do that would be stifle their own creativity. Given the wealth of musical knowledge we now have, an artist can incorporate anything they want and be inspired from whatever genre, whether classical, jazz, Latin, to accomplish the feelings and emotions they want to achieve. And that's the difference, Laufey's songs do touch a lot of people, while a lot of jazz, jazz clubs, jazz jams, make people, me included, feel nothing at all, except to admire the skills at playing the instruments but nothing beyond that. There is no need to over analyse, just ask, am I enjoying this?
Great video, also props to Adam Neely for recognising that there was something missing from his recent video and adding your content to his channel. Initially I was hesitant to even watch this content because most likely, this discussion of “is Laufey jazz” only exists because she was placed in this category by an algorithm. The unfortunate thing is that I cannot easily come up with an alternate genre definition for her work. When I hear her songs I think that she’s perfectly reflecting an old timey romanticism of the same vibe as I dunno, a love song written by Cole Porter or the like. Then there’s also a bit of a bossa nova component. Both referenced in a way that point back to periods in time where white American musicians were very successful with this specific type of whitewashing of both black American and South American music. So: I’m hearing a type of mid 1900s mainstream pop. Which is only tied to jazz in the most marginal way. Ima say: Laufey is great at embodying old timey kitsch, and I assume she’s also very aware of the cultural histories of these styles. Would she even want to get into more “jazz” based musical circles at this point in her life? Probably not, or not yet. Adam Neely pointing the finger at Laufey and telling her to go to a jam session seems completely besides the point. The main question is not about Laufey, but about jazz as a whole - why do people not understand jazz for what it is. And then drag a young female musician into the discourse who really doesn’t need to be involved. Why is jazz invisible to the algorithms that now govern our culture, and what can we learn from this question. The answer has something to do with capitalism and colonialism of course but who cares I need to stop ranting now. Thanks bye! ❤️
I wonder why Jon batiste, thundercat were never called “savior of jazz” when they’re nearer to the genre. Also there’s something weird about saying jazz is unapproachable but laufey is.. jazz has always been very full and complex why water it down?
Thundercat gets hate for being "funk" and Jon gets crap for having vocals - and both get the same end of the stick of crusty cats complaining new jazz isn't a 1:1 of Miles or Coltrane.
I think almost all forms of gatekeeping are dumb, especially when utilizing immutable characteristics like race/ethnicity as a weapon to gatekeep. Jazz (and every other form of music) grows through inspiration and sharing. When culture/music is so ardently gatekept, the gatekeepers are only doing damage to their traditions by pushing away those who might learn to appreciate and grow/propagate said traditions. People should not need to belong to X race, Y Class, or Z ethnicity to enjoy and build upon tradition that inspires them. Sharing culture should be celebrated! In regards to Laufey, I think nit-picking what historical genre her music belongs to is kind of silly. In the end, all of these musical categories are man-made and only exist because we get some utility out of them. The more time one spends dissecting her music to argue over what genre it should belong to, the more it feels like gatekeeping. I reckon people should not worry so much what mainstream articles say about the categorization of Laufey's music, and just enjoy her music for what it is.
As nice and wholesome that is I don't think it's honestly realistic or fair to say that about the different communities that decide to gatekeep thier music. Most if not all musical genres are tied to an identity that represents the group of people preforming it and that group of people have given it meaning and value which is called culture. To just let outsiders walk in and take aspects or even worst completely change the original culture would just be baffling and disrespectful, especially when they don't understand it. Yes it's true that growth in a genre (or anything really) won't happen until it's boundaries are pushed. But it's important to remember that the "rules" or general understanding in particular culture are there for reason and most of the time it's because that's wat shapes the genre identity. Like imagine a rock band claiming to be a baroque string quartet but that only string instruments are the bass and the guitar 😐. Also I'd like to add that genre is just a general idea, an artist doesn't have to adhere to it but if an artist DOES claim a genre that it's only fair to critique their music for not having any major elements of what their music is supposed to be based on.
@@KOOLBOYSC1I think time plays a role. As in a century of time is beyond fair game for a genre to have assimilated, evolved, permeated etc. 10 years max is probably the norm, if that. Naturally, a musical subculture that defines (to whatever degree) a community's identity will be more charged and will necessarily "gate keep" to allow that community to build it's identity. I'm all for that type of gate keeping to stave off cynical or clueless comidification or opportunistic co-opting. To allow the art to organically grow based on its original intent and influence And even that will fail to be homogeneous to some degree. But at a certain point the SUCCESS of that subculture and its art will surpass its ability to gatekeep or contain it. It's no longer an infant that requires (or will tolerate) protecting and nurturing by the small community that birthed it. It's out in the world (all growns up!) And that's just how art and culture goes in a multicultural environment. It's a good thing.
I guess you don't know the old trope that White English Rock & Roll bands saved 'The Blues", another Black American music genre. The Blues is also part of Rhythm & Blues, but the Blues as done by Robert Johnson, Muddy Waters, John Lee Hooker, Delta Blues Memphis Blues, Chicago Blues is separate. Hundreds of Blues artists began to receive attention in the 60s and 70s that would have otherwise remained faceless, unknown and ignored. Of course the cries about another group of White musicians like Elvis, stealing Black music. No credit given, ignoring the culture. This is tiresome. Elvis respected the Blues and Black gospel music. That's no question. I never would have known about Robert Johnson without Led Zeppelin. I never would have known about Bessie Smith and Big Mama Thornton without Janis Joplin. All artists who respected and praised Blues players and singers. Growing up in Japan in the 70s, Electric Blues bands were some of the most popular bands around. One of my personal favorites was Carmen Maki and OZ band, before that she had an album with Blues Creation. She was very much influenced by Janis Joplin and Grace Slick. I was 15-16 years old and I loved that hard rock Blues sound. I also got into Jazz at that time due to playing it in Stage Band. Was it 'The Blues?' It was far removed from Robert Johnson playing 12 bar blues on a beat up guitar into a microphone in a studio, onto wax for a few dollars in the 30s. He made probably $300 total for those sessions. What would have happened if Eric Clapton, Led Zeppelin and the Rolling Stones had never heard about Robert Johnson? And you really need to stop talking about Jazz as if there is just one form of Jazz. Please introduce genres of Jazz such as BIg Band, Ragtime, Modal, Be-Bop, Dixieland, Free Jazz, Jazz-Rock Fusion, cool Jazz or Miles Davis Bitches Brew to some of your Gen-Z friends and sit them down to listen to it and see how long before they start looking at their iPhones and looking for an excuse to get the F out of there. Smooth Jazz came on the radio in the 80s and single handedly revived the careers of many jazz & R&B artists, new young artists, were able to become successful ina genre that was pretty much a dead end if you were a horn or woodwind player in high school or college, especially if you liked Jazz. Hard core Jazz purists hated Smooth Jazz. Laufey is perfect for Smooth Jazz with her vocals and mid-century pop, light Jazz arrangements. The audience for Smooth Jazz was at one time over 70% white, 28% Black. so what demographic is keeping Jazz alive? Gate keepers who say it ain't jazz unless it is a Black/artist/musician is self defeating. I went to see Dave Koz for his Smooth Jazz Summer Concert at the Hollywood Bowl. Full house and the audience was probably 50% Black. The audience for the most part was older, I'm 66, came to listen to a White Saxophone player, who plays pop Jazz. My 36 year old daughter wouldn't be caught dead at a Smooth Jazz concert, let alone the Playboy Jazz Festival. Jazz radio is dead, Smooth Jazz is a shadow of it's past popularity, blame mismanagement and tiresome playlists. Younger listeners are not attracted to the genre. You think that giving Grammys to Esperanza Spalding and Samara Joy is going to have Gen-Z flocking to their concerts? Both are great but not my cup of tea. They are not going to 'save' Jazz anymore than Laufey. I liked the Tabakin/Akiyoshi big band, Sadao Watanabe, Ryo Kawasaki. I loved Chick Corea, Return to Forever, Mahavishnu Orchestra, Miles Davis, Joe Pass, Benny Goodman Orchestra, Duke Ellington. So my love for Jazz goes back decades. Throwing shade at Laufey is the last thing Jazz needs. To be honest, her music lulls me to sleep, but otherwise it's listenable. Her voice is pleasant and her song choices and arrangements, even solo with guitar are pretty good. How is she different from Norah Jones singing 'I don't Know Why?' Is it Jazz? Yes, a form of Jazz. Wasn't she supposed to be the new face of Jazz? Just as there are multiple forms and types of Jazz that don't sound anything alike, Laufey is singing and playing a soft pop lyrical style that incorporates a taste of influences, even Jazz, here and there. You and others think she needs to jump all in and slap Gen-Z in the face with Miles Davis or Art Blakey or some other 'real' Jazz. Wynton Marsalis was another Grammy winner who was supposed to save Jazz as well, except he trashed talked non-traditional Jazz artists. The perception of Jazz is the problem. The perception of old school Jazz to a Gen-Z audience is the problem. Trying to force Jazz onto them(You don't know what real Jazz is!!!) is a problem.
Heya just came across your video, really well made! I was thinking about a lot of things you mentioned in this vid after I watched the Neely video as well. You should do more of this style of content vid essay stuff about music - the format suits you!
I think Laufey's songs got a lil bit of jazz here and there. But, to hype her as the savior of jazz is just doesn't sound right. Why? Not because of her skin color. It's more about the culture. She's so disconnected with people that have been doing jazz, she always talks about jazz as past tense. That's disrespectful to jazz musicians. If they're not on the Billboard top 100 or get millions of streams on Spotify, doesn't mean jazz is dead. It's alive and well in small club, where Laufey never mind visiting and performing there. Even on her own concert, she performs like orchestra. No improvisation whatsoever. And people want to call her savior of jazz?
I like how its degrading that Laufey is being called the savior of Jazz in some circles, but the post hipsters who want to try and label it a black folk music and want to defend it do not seem to be black either lol
hi! just want to point out that i didn't call laufey white. that was directed towards the press that has been pushing this narrative of saviorism which is rooted in a history of erasure (aka white-washed media). hope that clears that up
Honestly, with jam sessions I think in general it's a very uninviting space. Not to discount certain prejudices women can exclusively face in that environment, but every jam session I've been to has been a terrible experience. As a Jazz musician in Toronto in 4th year of humber, the city is full of Jazz musicians, between York, U of T and Humber as well as the professors and alumni. However, being in such an educational space invites so much competition. The last time I went to a jam session, I went up to play and so did this other alto player I had never seen before. We played and all solo'd but when it came to his solo, he clearly struggled. He was clearly new and trying to figure things out, but instead of encouraging, the tenor saxophonist (Who is very big in the Jazz scene known throughout the world), started playing over him during his solo. The tenor player then passed the solo on to the drummer to basically shut him up. After the tune finished, the female bass player loudly recommended towards the bassist we play something simple like a blues. So, we ended up playing a Bb blues, and I noticed everyone in the band ignored this player and didn't allow him to solo. I find the idea that you should just practice to backing tracks for 4000 hours before ever going to a jam, a very gatekeeping viewpoint. Which is another reason many people find it too daunting of a music to start playing. As well as the media that has come out that has either directly or indirectly supported emotional (and sometimes physical) abuse to the people who can't play jazz very well in order to "encourage" them. I.e. Whiplash, and general stories told through the community about the jazz greats being abused before "getting good," At the end of the night I was told I was good and even received a random follow on instagram from the tenor player and a DM saying that I played really well. But I would still not go back. Sure, I ended up getting positive feedback because I'm a professional player, which is great, but what happens when I have an off night and can't play as well? or a tune I don't know that I then have to ear? Most importantly, what happens to the inexperienced kid who just wanted to have fun? Will he ever pursue the music? Will he ever pursue a musical education? So, to laufey's credit, I understand her not wanting to go to a Jazz jam. What happens when she goes, and has to scat over giant steps and can't do it well. Will the Jazz community actually be inviting when she gets there? I think they would be, but only because she could call them for a gig. Someone else with the same level of talent might be ridiculed.
What a dumb thing to be concerned about. Next youre gonna tell me I can't praise your song covers since you aren't from the same ethnic background as the original composers. lol
Jimi Hendrix did rock and roll. Norah Jones did Jazz. Eminem did Rap. Look at how many Asians become elite classical musicians. You dont need to be a certain skin color to have others label you a great. Everyone has their opinions.
Rock and roll is African American and Jimi Hendrix is African American lol so this proves nothing. The debate is more about cultural ownership of musical art as well asAfrican Americans are tired of being disrespected and bullied out of the genres that they have created by the white majority in the United States. It’s not about musical talent that people are upset about, but the apathy towards the cultural nuances of participating in African American genres of music that were made during such arduous times (slavery, Jim Crow, etc.). It is similar to being culturally aware of being a non Indigenous person entering a Powwow.
Music doesn’t belong to any racial or ethnic group. This whole mindset of “white people stealing bad” IS gate keeping and it’s how culture (read pure untainted black oppression protest Jazz) dies. Regarding the sexism in jazz - perhaps it’s also a part of the conservative nature of “true” jazz that has its culture 100 years ago. That’s the nature of conservative movements and why it’s contradictory to gate-keep jazz based on skin color but not gender.
music can be enjoyed and played by all but it also has history and culture. for example, if i wanted to play enka music, no one would have a problem with calling it japanese music. we can acknowledge it has other influences but doesn’t take away the fact that it’s japanese. i think we need to examine why we take issue with calling the music a black american artform. it doesn’t exclude anyone just because the music is from somewhere. just to be clear, white people never took jazz away from anyone. it was always alive in the community. what i’m saying in the video is the media often doesn’t have an understanding of jazz and often misrepresents it. also, it has a history of erasure and savior complexes that we probably should talk about. i suggest watching the video more carefully to get my main talking points.
The fact that she’s not a progressive jazz singer but is so popular is and indication that not as many people are looking for jazz. There are more progressive singers in r and b etc, and more complex instrumental expression to be explored with electronic effects etc. that are allowed in other genres, so the traditional tools of jazz are limiting now.
quite a vicious video really if you consider what it implies. i have nothing to do with jazz nor im black, but i think jazz doesnt need @mitamu to defend either
not sure what you feel this video is implying but my main point is that the media has a history of erasure and savior complexes and it's happened to jazz before. the general public's view on jazz has been built on misunderstandings and stereotypes. i think there are many in the jazz community that do not feel comfortable with having laufey being called its savior for various reasons. as i mentioned in my video, i'm not here to speak ill of lauvey. personally, i think it's great that she's becoming an access point to younger audiences to the genre, but like i said, erasure and misrepresentation of jazz by the media is really what we should be mindful of. hope that helps to clarify
@@mitamu that you don't seem to approve that she's not the right ethnicity and it's not cool for her to be successful and be associated with jazz. you kinda saying that California roll is not sushi and you have to be this and that. like of course Laufey isnt the original jazz concept i think most ppl can tell, and most ppl know that jazz is mostly black. I personally dont think any genre needs saving, but i think what these press article mean by 'saviour' is that she is making jazz-related styles mainstream again the way it was more of a mainstream thing in 40s or 50s. why not let her be an influence that is associated with the jazz genre? to me as a layperson she doesnt seem to be some harcore jazz-jazz, but to me she falls under the broad spectrum of jazz by the sound of her music. by you saying that she is a force of white washing, seems to me that ppl like you create this kinda special society you have to fit in certain criteria to be part of the club
@@polikun2884 those are not the points i made. i did not say that laufey cannot be successful or associated with jazz. if that's the case, then i would not be the "right" ethnicity either. of course she can be a jazz musician and my intention is not to exclude her. as i stated in my video and reply, this is a video about how i don't agree with the media's narrative of savior complex and its history of misrepresenting jazz music and culture. i provide some context of why i think that has happened in the past and compare it to what is going on today. this is not a "laufey is not a jazz musician" video. towards the end of my video, i state that it's kinda a silly question and who's to say that laufey cannot be jazz? i think laufey might be disconnected from jazz culture and its community which is why the "savior" phrase does not sit well with jazz musicians. i think it would be great if she engaged in the community and culture. i encourage you to watch the video and listen to those points again for further clarity. in any case, i hope that my intentions are clearer in this reply.
The only point that I would slightly disagree with you on in the video is about the whole black American art form. I am thoroughly against all skin colour identity politics being placed on music and art. People would identify me as a black person, but I do not use skin colour as an identity. That's just me. And that's my personal view. However, I do not think that it is healthy for us as musicians and music lovers to follow down that narrative of skin colour origin and ownership, so to speak, of a musical genre. If anything, it serves to divide music lovers more than it unites us. Yes, it is good for us to know what circumstances created the culture for a particular musical genre to be created, but apart from that no further value should be placed on skin colour.
hey! thanks for your comment. so just to be clear, everyone is allowed to participate and contribute to jazz. for example, i am a jazz musician and i am not black. many people that are non-black, such as chet baker and bill evans, contributed great things to jazz. something that my jazz mentors, elders, and contemporaries have taught me is to yes, be part of jazz, but understand that this music is part of black culture/experience. like any culture, we respect it. my point in this video is a criticism towards the press for creating narratives with savior complexes and often erasure of marginalized groups. laufey is great. how the press is writing about her is not doing anyone favors
@@mitamu I get you. I understand the context you're approaching it from, and I definitely agree with you that there has been a narrative of saviour complexes perpetuated by the media over the years. What my issue was, an it's really kind of a nitpick. Is that personally I would rather you say that Laufey a Non- American is being portrayed as a saviour of an American Art -form created by formerly enslaved Americans. This way the focus is more on the cultural heritage of the creators and not the skin colour of the creators. That being said, I absolutely love your content! Keep doing what you're doing. And you've earned yourself a life-long Subscriber!!!! 😇😇😇😇😇
Ultimately though, these genres of music are African American which has been tied with being black in the United States for nearly 400 years. Racial identity is intertwined with cultural identity in the United States because the foundations of this country was colonialism, enslaving people of African descent and taking lands of indigenous people. Whether you identify as black or not, this musical art has complex history and important elements that are deeply rooted in African American experiences during Jim Crow and being a couple decades right after emancipation. People of other cultures can definitely love jazz, but they ultimately are guests in this community, just like non Indigenous people are guests at a Powwow.
@@jacobschimp7939 I mean fundamentally I agree with you. Perspective is that as a Jamaican who others would identify as black I have no cultural claim to jazz music which is why I think that the categorization of African-American is more specific and less complicated than to color code the music especially seeing that no other musical outside of African and African-American music are color-coded
Women aren’t welcome in jam sessions is such bull. Maybe back when Melba Winston was alive it was like this but idk if you’ve ever been to a jazz jam session but women are very much appreciated and respected
I like her music, but the attitude that she has of “saving jazz” rubbed me the wrong way bc many of my gen z friends are jazz musicians! What do you mean you’re bringing it to this generation?
@@Billie12208 You not realizing the space you're in with your young peers being an outlier for young culture is kinda cute. The masses aren't listening to jazz, young or old.
Music is music. Maybe it originates from a culture or race, but a couple steps before that, it's music. Anybody gatekeeping music on a racial pretense is probably alittle racist. The artist and the listener are THE continuum.
From what I've heard from Laufey, she actually seems to have real chops and talent. Her ennunciation is the thing which seems most at odds with traditional jazz vocals and denuded of blues influence . That said, I think someone who doesn't have a feel for the blues singing blues inflected jazz probably feels much more appropriative than Laufey's approach. Maybe some folks migrate from listening to her to other folks more at home in the tradition. I don't think there is anything wrong with folks liking her as a one off so long as her approach doesn't set the standard for what is expected for new jazz artists (and in particular recording artists).
I disagree with Jazz being gatekept, in fact, I feel it is one of the most openly welcoming communities. The problem is people seem to be turned off or scared with the idea of it and stay away from it.
i agree, i think the idea of it being gatekept is due to the media. jazz is welcoming. to be part of it, you gotta want to learn it and be part of the community. it’s not exclusive but a lot of people don’t want to rise to the occasion and start mystifying it. that being said, i don’t think there’s denying that jazz spaces can create unwelcoming environments for women and such. that’s been a problem but it’s getting better.
So jazz belongs to black people. (your words) Good to know. Because it's definetly not a merge of african-american ethnical rythm and western melodical-harmonic themes. Barrocon harmony has nothing to do with it, there's clearly no correlation, and there was definetly not people from many ethnics participating in it's development. Jesus, get educated, how can you state something like that. There was definetly more "black" people on the movement and it meant a lot for them, it was a social movement too, etc. of course i acknowledge that but women, stating jazz music belongs to black people is false. Music doesn't belong to anybody and it's a result of humankind wonder period. And i'm a jazz player, and my idols are people like Miles Davis, Cannonball, Coltrane and the like, but also Bill Evans and Chet Baker. They all shaped jazz as it is and are all from very diferent backgrounds. But yeah, is also fact that "black" ethnic population was the protagonist of the movement. Protagonists and owners though, are two very diferent things.
Jesus yall have such a weird attitude when people say that certain things belong to African Americans. A quick google search shows that the art form was created and made by African Americans before it became popular throughout the US.
In my schooling jazz was never called a "black American art form." I went to school in the 90's, though, and I'm looking at your reading material now. It was called to us an "indigenous American art form." There are obvious white pioneers of jazz, as well, such as Benny Goodman and Glenn Miler. I think your video has racial bigotry, but you're obviously influenced by critical race theory.
Jazz is gatekept by old men like me but also by cultural guardians like you. I think both habits need to stop though cultural sensitivity should absolutely inform how we talk about this. I will argue that practitioners (like Laufey) don't save such a huge cultural phenomenon like "Jazz", which I see as an anarchic and diverse language (yes, surely born out of oppression, but also out of a need for delight) that engages emotionally and viscerally in a uniquely personal manner. All most practitioners can do is utilise a subset of its idioms. It is teachers, rather, and who they teach, who will bust the gates open. Classical music was for the rich, the few who could gain access to the courts. A few expensive salons broadened the experience, but it was not until we started to see the socialist mindset take a hold that the working class were considered suitable recipients of the experience. Ideas are shareable without depletion, all they need, out of politeness, is acknowledgement of their origins. I think a teacher like Joan Chamorro in Catalonia has done more to save jazz than any, by giving kids a wide experience of performing every kind of Jazz with world class jazz musicians, in public performance. Its notable that it is women from the Sant Andreu Jazz Band that are carving out the most spectacular careers in music, composition and performance. Check out Andrea Motis, Rita Payes, Elia Bastida, Alba Armengou, Magali Datzira... and the thousand or so SAJB videos on TH-cam. A concert this summer in Madrid will put Laufey and Rita Payes back to back. There is a video (a bit rubbish) that chops between each as they perform "Blame it on my Youth." Its revealing.
A lot of you guys misinterpret it when people said that laufey is not jazz. Laufey is not jazz is the same as saying laufey is not metal. It's about genre, not about how good/bad she is. She's so good, one of the best pop artists today imo. Her music is so refreshing.
Jazz music was the pop music of the1920's - 1950's - all you naval gazers need to chill out - music and art evolve - Laufey is 'Jazz' in that mid-century pop definition and she is bringing her version of 'Jazz' to the masses - stop being so hyper critical - Laufey is a fantastic musician and singer-songwriter - you all need to get over yourselves! She can do her own thing for goodness sake!
"to have a non black person being touted as the savior of jazz, jus doesn't look right". wow, that's pretty racist. But I shouldn't expect differently from a Japanese.
The jam sessions being a “man’s” space is weird to me. The only jam session I’ve ever seen was at a bar in Texas and it was about half and half women and men. Now, it never had singing. And it included a ton of students in the local school jazz program, so I guess it’s just different. Maybe a bar in Texas is just less sexist than a jazz session in a northern big city.
Jazz is a musical language. With the option of adding 9, 11 and 13 to the chords a very interesting one. It is there to be spoken by who ever likes to do so, anywhere, in whatever context and with or without company. Oh, try & guess - in what category is Laufey a Grammy Nominee ? - : "Best Traditional Pop Vocal Album"
I feel bad for Laufey she just wants to make music and she's being ostracized by this community. I think she'll be chased away from ever going near jazz, plus she also has to be of a specific color so I'm sure she'll sure as heck stay away from it.
I can't wait to see Samara Joy next month😉 thanks for your service.. defending jazz is a duty. I'm always explaining this to the people who don't know what it is and claim that they don't like it. Diana Krall had to go commercial to be heard as a jazz pianist. It's sad. ❤
Absolutely love this, especially the discussion re: woman and jam sessions/the male-dominated jazz spaces! It was a discussion sorely lacking in my own video, so thank you.
One of the reasons why I highlighted Emmet's Place in particular is that he's good about being inclusive in ways that traditionally aren't super jazz (episode 60 pride episode, ex). There is still a lot of work to be done to create new spaces and expand existing spaces to accept more gender diversity, but there is progress.
That said, I realize the ambivalence towards me at the end of my Laufey video inviting her to jazz jams. I know how absurd that might feel and seem when the jazz community can be so toxic, and honestly, I don't blame her and others for saying "fuck jazz, stop the gatekeeping, I hate this culture." I get it.
Complicated. Do you mind if I share/signal boost this video?
hi adam! i'm so glad to hear you enjoyed this and also thank you for making your own video. it really inspired me to say my piece about this as well. very much agree that progress is being done. emmet's place being a great example of the shift in mindset. i would be honored if you shared this video. much love!
Adam Neely is right. When talking about music the most important thing is to virtue signal. He missed that opportunity in his video and, therefore, failed.
@@thomasdequincey5811I thought jazz started as vice signaling. Now it's virtuous?! That's fabulous!
how is jazz community toxic? i’m very curious because im fairly ignorant regarding the subject
There’s one thing that I think is glazed over in both of your videos: The skill barrier. There is enormous elitism around different echelons of skill within the community, and most vibing and gate keeping takes place along that axis. You are being judged in real time for your technical abilities, the depth of harmonic vocabulary, even your creative and aesthetic choices. (I’ve even seen Patrick Bartley vibed for his creative and aesthetic decisions to include Jpop and vgm in his playing)
They’re both great videos and it’s wonderful that we’re bringing the cultural issues to the forefront, but I feel like there’s an awkward truth here that threatens to undercut all of the cultural elements at play. If you can’t hang, you’re getting vibed. You are going to walk away from the bandstand with the feeling that you are not worthy. That’s the majority of the real gate keeping that has been going on for years and likely one of the largest reasons Laufey is calling Jazz a “gatekept” space. That’s not to discount what you’re saying. I’m just surprised that nobody is really talking about it.
My only issue with the criticism of Laufey is that maybe she just doesn't want to do straight jazz. Everyone telling her to immerse herself with other jazz musicians doesn't take any account about what she wants.
She is making the type of music she wants. Yes, it has jazz elements, but it's her own thing.
And maybe, just maybe that's all she wants to do is continue combining her love of musical theater and jazz into one.
100% agree. She has said in past interviews that she’s a huge Taylor Swift fan because of the way she tells stories through her songs. And so Laufey wanted to combine story telling in the kind of music style she grew up listening to (jazz/classical), but also, adding a modern twist to appeal to the new generation. Of course, she needs to have her own unique style to stand out and I think she did a great job at achieving that. Obviously if her style was just straight up jazz, she will not be as popular with the gen z crowd.
Also, since she enjoyed listening to jazz/classical as a child, she felt like an outsider because that wasn’t what other kids were listening to. So now through her music, she wants to inspire kids of today and send the message that if they want to listen to jazz or whatever music they like, that they shouldn’t feel ashamed, even if it’s not what other people are listening to these days.
I think you meant to say “her love of *classical music* and jazz into one. She’s never mentioned liking musical theatre.
@@RealContentHub She has done TikTok's doing Disney songs. Disney is basically musical theater.
@@thinkhector Oops sorry! My bad.
I strongly agree! What happened to jazz being inclusive lol?The fact that this question is even brought up is gatekeeping her from jazz. I agree with the creator of this video, as she states this question is uninteresting and it leads to uninteresting answers.
she's categorized as jazz singer to make it easier to recognize for larger audiences but i don't think she's just jazz but she had more pop sound in her album Typical of Me and has deep understanding of classical music. she's jazz/classic/pop all combined and making completely new genre for pop audiences. that's why people are discussing her i guess.
Her music is a jazz tangent, like Jobim and so many other commercially produced artists. And, like Jobim, she's one collaboration away from entering the community. The most important take away is that this debate is an uninteresting one. The big picture is that she's sparked conversation and interest in "jazz" for a new generation. How insecure is our community that we have to fight over what outsiders label our music, to the point of ostracizing listeners ready to embrace it
Outsiders only Label Laufey as jazz so that they can feel sophisticated for the most part. As Patrick Bartley would say, why do outsiders NEED Laufey to be jazz? Think about that for a minute. Genuinely the only reason I can think of is they are following the pack and don't know better, or because people who don't listen to jazz have this idea of jazz as being classy and sophisticated and makes you unique and special to be a part of. I think it's much more likely they want to say they're a part of that than they want to go to a jazz club and actually be a part of it. I think if you're seriously arguing this, you didn't bother listening to anything in this video or the Adam Neely one. People calling Laufey jazz detracts greatly from the actual jazz community that she herself declares is dead. Well of course you'd think something is dead if you've never participated in it and went out of your way to do so.
Imagine Laufey making older jazz rap beats in the 90s style like Q-Tip or Dilla and calling her the savior of rap simply because her style is a little older and she doesn't listen to modern rap? Absurd right? Especially to be calling a white person this is just....wow.
@@fritzjackson4336 what? how is she detracting "greatly"? by getting more people interested in it? by not putting enough swing in her rhythm section? absolutely missing the forest for the trees when you have young people lined up for music that, isn't just referencing jazz vocabulary, but actively using it and you get hung up on stupid things like whether or not she's fully "jazz" or not.
and i'm extremely curious how you are quantifying what "detracts greatly from the actual jazz community" and how random articles saying she's a savior has done that.
just enjoy the music, or dont
@@fritzjackson4336 I specifically called her music a "jazz tangent." See above. And "outsiders" call her music "jazz" because, on the surface, it sounds like jazz. Its really that simple.
@@circles79 Meh. Not buying it. That's very much a forced conversation, and quite different than the examples you gave. The topic of conversation is "is this jazz"? No one even agrees where she fits, not to mention she's apparently been outright rejected by the jazz community. The hype will die down, and jazz will continue to thrive under the mainstream radar without a second thought of Laufey.
With the examples of VI and Elvis, they were a part of the music, there's no question about that. If you want to argue that they were being heavily promoted as the face of the music at the time, sure, but history today remembers VI as the dude from the Ninja Turtles movie, and talks about Elvis for other reasons, but not for "inventing rock and roll." You might as well be saying Phil Woods was the face of hard bop...
Anyway, forcing important conversations on topics like "is Laufey jazz" diminishes the importance of those conversations. Lets not do that.
I'm convinced that Laufey will change the music industry in the future, but I don't know if her career will move to other genres. In terms of her mid-century pop, I'm sure she want to do something different. In the Zach podcast, she really inspired her career like Taylor Swift did by changing her career from country pop star to pop star in my opinion.
Laufey’s music isn’t jazz. Its more in line with American modern romantic.
It’s not her fault people describe her genre is jazz.
This piece of navel gazing has more in common with pseudo academic scholarship.
American modern romantic is not a genre. Jazz is. Laufey is Jazz, just a different type of Jazz.
@@mikeevans6344 you must be new here. American romantic is just a description. Not yet another genre.
Is this jazz? Hell no! If one must have a label you might consider American ballads or even pop! But jazz? LOL!
Gen Z etc has so little idea of jazz.
I saw her live...she is great❤❤❤...she herself does not label as a jazz musician...she said, she loves classical music, jazz and pop...and loves to combine all three...I heard many different influences in her music
why do i feel glad that i'm not laufey right now
I love her, you can hear where she got her inspo from, its beautiful how she made this type of music special again
Just found your channel from watching you sing Shiki No Uta, and now I'm loving these topics! I love jazz, but have never talked about it with anyone since it's mostly absent in my culture (Brazilian).
Thank you for making this video, this discussion of the history and culture of the jazz music we love so much is very needed
This was an incredible video, Mitamu! Loved the way you tell this stories and your point of view, fantastic editing as well. I'd love to see more of this
I think in order to have a proper discussion of whether it's jazz or not, there is an important distinction to be made between playing jazz as in - a bunch of musicians get up on stage and say "let's play Cherokee" or whatever, and the concept of having a repertoire of jazz standards, the kinds of harmony we associate with this type of music (pre-bebop at least) and so on. Now, we can argue about the term "jazz standard" and is an Irving Berlin song or a Cole Porter song in itself jazz. But is Laufey, as a young singer songwriter following more in their steps or the steps of John Coltrane or Charlie Parker? The answer seems quite obvious to me, so why is everybody focusing on people like Miles Davis or Dizzy Gillespie? That's just not what she does. It's a completely different kind of music. It's like, if you compare Sinatra to Miles Davis. Not much in common even in the same time period.
As for Laufey, there's obviously nothing wrong with writing songs in that style, that's very clearly what she likes, the Gershwin or Jobim type of tune, the problem arrives when that gets automatically classified as jazz. And both Laufey, and the media get it wrong because of the confusing terminology and lack of consensus on these topics. Is it really a big deal though, is the public going to forget what jazz is about because of her? Probably not. (Although the Tiktok community might be hopeless).
i can see why some people might be annoyed when Laufey is called the savior of jazz. As someone who doesn’t typically listen to jazz, I find her music easy to listen to, which suggests to me that it's more pop with a touch of jazz rather than pure jazz.
And I hope she doesn’t change. Maybe they should just call her pop jazz.
big fan of this rundown - and look at how history has treated this genre - Emphasis on Jazz spaces not always being accessible/ safe for woman-
Laufey is making music, and you guys complain about media and artists. This is why Laufey is so successful because she focus on music not other things. It's totally distasteful and unclassy to backstab other artists.
incredible that neither this video or adam neelys video say anything about the generally inaccessible cost of elite music conservatories. If anything is gatekeeping people from jazz it’s $50,000 yearly tuitions
we can definitely talk about that in a separate video and the gatekeeping of music education in general. unfortunately, we can’t cover everything at a single time but doesn’t mean it’s not worth addressing. thanks!
Those costs are outrageous, but I would argue that a lot of Jazz artists of the 20th century didn't have that sort of formal education. As a self taught musician, there are enough resources on this very platform that can get you there!
@@adampitt9311 i agree with you! Most of the 20th century jazz performers seemed to be educated in non academic environments. This laufey discourse is about professional and performing jazz (or pop) musicians in the 21st century - most of which seem to have(need) education from elite institutions
i’m self learning right now and there are definitely enough resources lol maybe too many
Dude I’ve been learning jazz for about five years now, and never had to go to music college. There’s so much information available out there, for free. In my opinion,the most valuable thing that music college may give you is network, but if you really like jazz and you work hard you’ll find your way into the scene. Parker didn’t have to pay $50,000 in tuition to become one of the greatest musicians to have ever lived. If you really like this tradition, you’ll find your way in.
I don’t think that the jazz conservatories are the problem, considering the whole of upper education in America is that expensive and all that. It’s not jazz education it’s the educational system that’s the problem
Both my daughters are aspiring jazz vocalists. As a professional musician, no way would I want them at any jam session. You bring up a great point here.
i think laufey is less a savior of jazz and more packaged it for a new audience and generation. making more relatable or modern to help people get into jazz. she's incredibly talented and i don't think she deserves the hate for the articles and people calling her a "savior", the news outlets do. and educating people about jazz culture is a good way to get more people (of all races and backgrounds) into jazz
oh, I didn't know that bebop was the "gatekeeper" style. It was the style that made me fall in love with jazz and change my high gain amplifier for a clean one. Also, it seems to me, as a fairly new jazz follower, that the comunal culture you describe is not that different from the metal community I come from.
hmm…i don’t know if i would call it the “gatekeeper” style. that also doesn’t sound right 😂. i think it feels that way because it is complex music. it’s innovative with a lot of beautiful musical language embedded in it! also, it’s not exclusive. you had people teaching each other this new way of playing in a very beautiful way. it only started feeling exclusive when that air of elitism (which i mainly blame the press) started appearing. really cool to hear that the metal community is kinda like this too!
adore this video, please keep making more!!
Leave Laufey alone! 😂
No seriously. Jazz is for everyone wtf
This video is absolutely excellent and nothing short of fantastic! Please create more commentary videos like this!!
Thank You!
Thank You!
THANK YOU!
Probably the longest mic stand I’ve ever seen
This situation reminds me of the Eminem case all over again.
Saying laufey isnt a jazz artist is actually pretty much saying eminem is not a hiphop artist.
But Eminem is making hip hop. His music is rap and hip hop he grew up with the culture he’s just white. Laufey is a classical artist who went to Berkeley studying classical music lol. When she incorporated jazzy elements in her songs suddenly she’s the “jazz savior”. I think the issue is she’s being mislabeled. She should be called “classical theatre savior” or something.
@@baibiebaibea9740 Well using your perpsective, then maybe Laufey is both jazz and classical artist at the same time. Both genre is not a stranger of each other, jazz and classical had intersect many times before.
I agree that saying Laufey as "the jazz saviour" is a little bit of a stretch. But at the end of the day, she still considered as a Jazz artist tho. She had all of the element of a Jazz artist.
I loved this video!! And agreed with all your points!! As a jazz guitarist and bassist , I do feel that men do take me less seriously as a guitarist, and prefer me to play bass- even though I’ve been playing guitar much longer and prefer it lol
Laufey doesn't make jazz
music is not about race
you are a g when you know from where she got the song at 9:20
Conversations about music & race always get weird. For some reason, if an ethnic group develops the earliest form of a musical genre that eventually gets taken up by multiple other groups and perhaps individuals of all demographics, that entire genre gets listed as belonging to the first group who worked on the ideas. If this is really taken to its extreme, then calculus is English & German culture and we're all appropriating when we use modern technology.
White washing would be when someone rewrites history to erase all of the non-whites who participated. The fact that a modern musician who isn't black excels at music that racists think belongs to one ethnic group alone is not white-washing.
I JUST WANT TO SAY: "SHE IS SAVING POP! NOT JAZZ!"
THERE HAVE NEVER BEEN SO MANY JAZZ MUSICANS LIKE TODAY AND THERE WILL BE MORE TOMORROW!
BUT STILL I LOVE❤ LAUFEY
still i am gonna write a bebop head over from the start❤🎉
And sorry but Jazz is as much White as its Black it s 50/50 western Harmonie and African Rythem and one off the best ways to integrade Our diffrent culters!
Every Culter off humanity Belongs to every Humanbeing
And another thing How Do I Support my favorite female instrometelist when they only play FLINTA😢
Gatekeeping is a word that gets thrown around way too much and I'm really sorry but you don't have enough experience to be ragging on anyone.
I also didn't appreciate some of the thoughts you shared about girls not getting treated fairly at jam sessions.
I personally went out of my way to make you feel welcome and supported at my session for years but I guess you forgot
Great video! You said what I was feeling. pls make morw videos like this!
I think the general public doesn't know the difference between jazz and easy listening. Musicians like Kenny G and Nora Jones are examples of people who have been branded jazz but they are not. Although you can use the same instruments and sing in a similar vocal style doesn't make it jazz. The orchestrations also seem more like a classical that's trying to play in a jazz style. It kind of reminds me of big band except these new recordings don't have the swing nor the improv that are essential to true jazz. Laufey's videos looks like their teenage pop music videos and have nothing to do with jazz although the melody and words are identical. Jazz is alive and doesn't need saving. There are many unknown players, or rather less known musicians, that keep the torch burning true to their roots even if they are relatively unknown to the public.
This whole thing is too much overanalyzing.
These essays are the only time I’ve heard of Laufey.
Who gives a damn if she's non-black and being called "the savior of jazz" it's not that deep lmao. Maybe she isn't, but I couldn't care less. I just want to listen to music in peace without people being upset about musicians for no reason, or things beyond their control. Just enjoy the music.
I’m not sure I would call her music “jazz.” I think it fits more into the genre of mid 20th century popular music of the style that could be heard in musicals and on the radio in roughly the 1930’s through the 1960’s. Jazz, to me implies at least a degree of improvisation. Laufey’s music is more like the style of Judy Garland, Frank Sinatra or even Barbara Streisand.
Can you turn your music off when you're talking? Thank you.
These discussions on what is and isn’t jazz move further and further away from it’s true essence. It is the most beautiful and complex, rich, multicultural, interesting and evolving art form the world has ever seen. Attempting to lock it into some form of strict cultural box is like caging a wild bird. Jazz can be loved, and should be explored, by anyone who is drawn to listen.
I’ve been into jazz for 15 years or more and I can say as a black person I was always in majority white spaces to see live jazz. Not only that but the few black people there and the whites were really arrogant about it- as if I shouldn’t be there. It was a lot like the cotton club culture. Regardless, I go out and do what I do. But on the topic, I think it’s been white washed. Separately I think Laufy is a pretty good writer and has good vocal control. I like her timbre. That is very separate from how the music machine chooses to sell artist to the public. The music machine is of course entitling people to behave as they do.
I’m not sure whether it’s a problem that she is known as the saviour of jazz music because rock music is a black genre and the genre has been completely white washed and there’s always articles saying this band is the future of rock or whatever and they’re obviously white musicians most the time
While it's great that videos like this can be made to express opinions, I cannot agree with much in this particular video. Note: I _do_ agree with the need to make jams and other such spaces inviting and safe across all boundaries.
At the end of the day, we should strive for a reductionist understanding of genres. What that entails can vary: It can rely on a description of the music just using music theory, descriptions of sonority and timbre and so on. Or it can rely on stating what legacy of other music some music is similar to or makes references to. Or it can rely on simply saying "I know it when I hear it". But it should not rely on topics that are normally associated with identity politics.
Genres should also be utilitarian. At the time someone uses the name of a genre, it needs to serve a purpose for the person saying it, and for the intended audience. Often-times, the person speaking is a musician or a music journalist etc. And often-times, the audience is the general public. So when the name of a genre is used, its purpose is to give a quick hint at what kind of music is being talked about, using words that the intended audience is likely to be familiar with.
Youre right. No one can sell tacos if they havent gotten here the hard way. Such dumb insight.
Laufey is good but miles Davis is a true musician to get into jazz
This video is the biggest cringe I've seen in all of 2023.
I would like to also mention the Canadian all-women jazz band "the Ostara Project" which is great!
As a black person who thoroughly enjoys jazz since birth, I actually thank Laufey. I believe that when they mean reviving jazz they mean in this generation which I'm strongly apart of. despite the race, I'm sure anyone of any culture is allowed to be made by anyone.. as long as people remember and keep in mind where it originates.
Btw it's Lay-vay not loy-vay I think
hi and thanks for commenting. laufey is great for bringing the genre to more listeners. that is explained well in adam’s video too. and i agree, it’s important to know where the music originates because like any culture, it’s important to give respect to it.
l opted for the more icelandic pronunciation of her name. she gives two pronunciation guides in her interview with elle
This is what open minded, appreciative ppl look like. That was nicely said.
@@nberriloyvay is the true icelandic pronounciation. layvay is saying it right
The likes of Nora Jones and Esperanza Spalding have at some point or the other in the past 20 years been called the saviour of jazz (even though Jones was more pop than jazz imho)I think the real problem here is always viewing EVERYTHING from the perspective of identity politics. There's too much of that kind of negativity going round in the world.
Laufey is clearly a throwback to the golden age of pop singers mingling with jazz but I don't hear any of the consistent elements of jazz in her music. Perhaps the fact that she sings songs that are slightly more harmonically complex makes her music sound "Jazzy", but her songs align far more with the showtunes of Broadway that also happen to overlap with much of jazz music. I think she is analogous to what Amy Winehouse did with classic soul music. She provided a kind of nostalgic recreation, which was very genuine and well crafted but was a very clear and intentional act.
Pop singers mingling with jazz? That's exactly backwards. First there were popular standards, and then black musicians and hipsters jazzed them up.
@@thescowlingschnauzerYou’re right, but I’m just referring to that time period when there was a convergence of the two styles.
@@thescowlingschnauzer hipsters don't play jazz. It's above them.
Exactly. The appeal is well crafted nostalgia and kitsch. The label jazz is slapped on because there is no other commonly used term for this sort of retro genre.
I enjoy that this whole mislabeling thing seems to be spawning a bunch of discussion of cultural history and present day culture, but that doesn’t need to happen on Laufey’s back, just let her make her kitschy tunes and move into a different discussion space.
The fact that some content creators are writing “is Laufey the savior of jazz” etc simply because she appears in this Spotify category is mind meltingly stupid
@@lizardmix There is always attempts to push Jazz into a cultural spotlight, but I think most forms of jazz just aren’t capable of being neatly packaged and presented as a mass music like pop or rock. That’s why artists like Laufey get backlash when they are labeled as “jazz” because they have become unwilling martyrs for the cause of bringing jazz any type of attention. I think it brings good and bad. “Any press is good press” certainly applied, and maybe Laufey introduces some people to enjoy music that is vaguely jazz. On the other hand, I don’t think she is a very good representation of the jazz genre, and like the video mentions she really isn’t a jazz artist in the strict sense of the term. 🤷🏼
i think this video is very well put! i am both an avid laufey and jazz fan, and i think it is clear how some of her music takes inspiration from jazz (i think of Dreamer for example), but i totally agree that it’s extremely misleading to say she ONLY draws inspo from jazz, therefore solely making her a jazz musician. there’s absolutely elements of classical, pop, showtune, etc in her music. i think laufey is a beautiful mix of all of these, and there’s great overlap between them all.
the issue is that people see glimpses of jazz in laufey’s music, and instead of exploring more of the genre, they just stop at laufey and claim her as jazz, and this is simply due to ignorance, but that’s dangerous!
i hope some of these people pushing laufey as some new standard for jazz realize that not only are they discrediting the rich black roots and themes of jazz, but they’re actually totally disregarding laufey’s unique and personal sound.
well said!
I don’t really get this take honestly. Jazz has always taken inspiration from pop and classical. Did everyone forget that Gershwin created a whole songbook of what became jazz standards or something? Or that My Favorite Things, a pop song, is a jazz standard? Laufey is literally no different in that regard. Miles Davis in the 1980s literally just straight up covered a bunch of contemporary pop of the era in his live shows. Is that not jazz somehow?
Being trained classically doesn’t mean you aren’t jazz. I guess that means Nina Simone, Herbie Hancock, Hiromi Uehara, Keith Jarrett, and multitudes of others aren’t jazz anymore. Oops!
Is Allen Toussaint, one of the biggest popularizers and proponents of the New Orleans sound over the past 70 years, not jazz because he also loved to make R&B albums and wrote songs for pop artists? Laughable take.
This is actually the real reason jazz isn’t popular anymore. The “jazz culture” is a bunch of elitists that took over the genre in the 70s and 80s with regressive definitions (Wynton Marsalis as well as white dominated academia). No one wants to associate with jazz snobs.
I love this ‘mid-century pop’ term for Laufey… she is an incredible talent, writing beautiful songs - and is hugely popular… A jazzy musician - not a jazz musician!
And if through her, young people discover the jazz greats, then she may well be saving jazz!
She's absolutely a jazz musician. You just can't handle her not being 100% jazz. Jazz people are so cringe for this very reason. It's ironic since the expansion of jazz was hinged on it changing and evolving.
@@loadishstoneterms evolve
Goes with the midcentury living room furniture and the retro cocktails!
@@loadishstone
@@CharlesLaughlin ha yes! She so matches my sideboard and flying ducks!!
@@WaitingForTheHook Not being Jazz doesn't equate to not good. She writes good music, but there's nothing wrong with her music not being Jazz. I think you are the cringy one for thinking if someone says something is not Jazz they must be shitting on the music. I mean I can say her music is not Metal. That doesn't mean I'm saying she's shit artist. I think it's your own insecurity seeping out.
I agree with your conclusion but your "evidence" is weak at best.
Someone not being black isn't a way to validate your argument that they aren't jazz or the savior of jazz.
I watched Adam Neely's video and his evidence is a bit better presented but falls on the same assertion. Nonblack = not able to hold the title.
Laufey isn't jazz by my definition because her music is pop. it is made for the sake of being as popular as possible within its own genre. It's jazz-pop to me, because it still has jazz elements. What "jazz elements" are is blurry and subjective. No solid argument can be made for the line of what is jazz and what isn't without excluding a lot of jazz musicians and including a lot of non-jazz musicians.
Either accept that music like this can't be put in a neat little box, or face the fact that this discussion is pointless, entirely subjective, and demeaning to a ton of people.
I understand that your video was more about her being called the savior of jazz and why she shouldn't be, but you still didn't really give any good arguments apart from "shes not black, therefore it would be whitewashing to say she is lifting jazz out of a 5 foot grave." which in a way is true but why? because jazz originated in black american culture? Rock also originated in black american and european culture yet the biggest figures of it are all white guys and no one has an issue with it.
I do not wish to be rude or anything while saying this, but this video (and Adam's) are pretty weak, even as a regular viewer of his content and a second-time viewer of yours. you both have done great work on other videos, but these aren't really built on any foundation, regardless of who agrees with the conclusion or not.
I kinda feel like they are just being salty tho ngl.
While Adam mentioned race for historical context (good), I don’t think his argument was race-centric at all. His two main arguments were 1) based on musical style, Laufey is drawing more from 1950s pop and musical theater than from straightforward jazz, and 2) based on community, Laufey isn’t communicating or collaborating with other jazz musicians. DOMi & JD Beck are young white musicians, but they easily pass both of these tests.
Edit: I will add that I’m similarly iffy on the “we shouldn’t call Laufey the savior of jazz because she’s white”. On one hand there is a long history of white artists intentionally or unintentionally stealing the spotlight from black musicians, simply because the majority of Americans were more comfortable with someone who looked like them. On the other hand, it is entirely possible that the musician who is doing the best job introducing jazz to a new generation could be white. If it’s true, it’s true. (Although it’s not Laufey, for the reasons stated above.)
Edit 2: And for what it’s worth, I think the gender-related point - jazz instrumentalists are mainly men, which can make it difficult for women to feel comfortable at jam sessions - is entirely reasonable. No real dissent from me there.
I agree with everything that is said here.
This whole “she can’t be the savior because she’s white” thing is a bit tired in my opinion. She isn’t jazz’s savior but that has nothing to do with the fact that she’s white. I think that’s just too much focus on optics for optics sake.
It's not fully about her being white.
Laufey is Chinese also(mom). And she's not the savior of Jazz but...
What she is a person that has embrace music for music-sake by blending/taking "cues" from Jazz and other musical forms and develop a style that she can represent for herself to share to the world. And music is just that... A way to share feeling, thoughts, and etc to anyone that is willing to listen. The reality is about Jazz not only being an genre but about a CULTURE. People don't like when people or in this case the fans, overlook(lack of knowledge also) the culture that represent Jazz or any other music genre. There need to be a basic understanding that music, in some forms, does and will always represent CULTURE/History. Hopefully Laufey will do more focusing of the "culture" of Jazz. This can help or at least make some of her fans to spend time listening to Jazz from cultural mindset. For me music in general showcase culture and the love of music in general. Laufey is wonderful for what is doing for HER musical taste. She is helping but she can do more. After all, she is young and has her whole life to spend on growing her love for music, regardless of the genre. ❤💯
It feels very Ryan Glosling in La La Land, no? The white savior complex is real for a reason…
@@MA-rk2om I don’t see why there’s anything wrong with the whole La La Land thing. I’ve heard people try to explain why it’s wrong but I simply don’t agree. Maybe you can do a good job?
I agree, ( I'm black/ male) and while I do believe that the "savior" epithet is taking it too far ( just look at any of her youtube or tiktok comment sections), her race or background really has nothing to do with the matter. I'm not denying that the savior complex isn't true for some however. For me it's moreso the new listeners thinking the genre needs saving or what she's doing is somehow revolutionary, its fine just how it is.
Yeah the vibe here is coming off as like an amateur college humanities essay that is pretty much only deriving arguments from race and gender. Not a lot being said outside of commentary on that. What she's saying is right, but not always for the right reasons. A lot of this is just not supported by theory or concepts, just claiming things are the way they are because race and gender and personal experience. The whole thing about her not being the savior because she is white is A) erasing her intersectional identity (mixed race people exist) and B) just kinda racist in its own way as well. It comes off like a person being like "this taco isn't authentic because it was made by a white person" meanwhile literally talking about roy choi.
It feels wrong to call Laufey the savior of Jazz especially with artist like Samara Joy. Samara Joy who has won awards for her music and gives you that classic Jazz feeling while still being modern.
I like both Samara and Laufey but Samara was the first on stage with a jazz performance at the Grammys so she would seem to be the "reviver" of Jazz, at least closer to mainstream and for younger people.
It is clear thought why people would ignore Samara but love Laufey. It's not the first time but I hope it's the last.
(Samara is also one of two Jazz singers to win best new artist in all of history at the Grammys which is hard considering Jazz isn't even considered popular right now. If that doesn't say modern Jazz pioneer, I don't know what will)
yup.
@@Woodsarasthat is laughably naive and patently wrong, a savior of what, black people? Go back and watch the whole video again. You probably think Taylor Swift makes her own music. SMDH
I would also say that both of these women can only be seen as "saving" jazz if being at the top of the charts or lauded by white award shows was the goal in the first place. If that was never the goal, jazz never needed saving
@@colin-nekritz Nah, I think MichaelJamesCollins point is unironically correct. Sure Samara Joy won a Grammy, but jazz already has the kind of prestige that comes from winning awards. Basically everybody these days considers jazz to be highbrow, esteemed, respectable, etc. The challenge that jazz faces in 2023 isn't that it's not prestigious enough, it's that it isn't popular with young people. (As opposed to hip hop, which is incredibly popular but has only recently started to be considered "prestigious".) So the "savior" of jazz is going to be whatever jazz musician(s) are most popular with younger listeners. And on that metric, Laufey easily beats Samara Joy. (Then again, I agree that Laufey's music is mid-century pop rather than jazz)
Edit: Thundercat might be a better example of a musician who is decently popular with young people while also being deep in the jazz scene, except that his biggest songs are obviously his funk-R&B songs rather than his jazzier instrumentals
@@nolaffinmatter Thank you. It's clear a lot of people are trying to answer the question of who the is or is not the savior of jazz, without any idea what it is jazz needs saving from.
I think by "saving jazz" a lot of these commenters mean "making jazz mainstream and 'accessible' (to white people and those outside the jazz community) again, like it used to be".
Unfortunately, for many of us, that time period is not considered quite so golden. It's Lala Land all over again. Save jazz from the black people and the music heads who don't use it right
Thanks. Great insights presented very articulately (articulatetly? :) ).
I do wonder how comfortable Laufey is with being "the saviour of jazz"? I'm guessing this was not her goal when she set out and she was just making music in a style she liked and meant something to her.
same thoughts like I’m aware about her sentiments about jazz but the media portrayal of her being “the savior of jazz” is i think beyond her… unless she dismisses it or smthn
I think also an interesting thing to note is that for a long time women in jazz were mostly vocalist and handful of pianists. Although now things are changing for the better especially in NYC from what I've seen, but even in the New York scene it's not very common to see a women drummers. There's such a weird toxic masculinity around what instruments women are allowed to play, and a lot of the standard jazz instruments are gendered to be masculine.
yes! i have some thoughts around that too. in short (and only a part of the story) much of music education has been gatekept in the past. women didn’t have access to music literacy and singing was the most accessible form of music-making. interestingly, churches were a place where women cultivated their music education
it is very strange how gender is assigned to instruments too. i’m really curious and would really like to understand why that it since it feels so arbitrary!
@@mitamu Absolutely.
I honestly think the gendering of instruments is just loud/big = masculine. Which is truly just caveman brain thinking.
Lastly, I think there's horn player/anti-vocalist elitism. A lot of instrumental jazz musicians look down on vocalists, and a lot of it I believe comes down to your second point of B*tch, but also I do think as with Laufey comes from the fact that vocalist often are inspired not by the black tradition of the music but from the more accessible, white-washed mid-century pop. Horn players and rhythm section can't find idols to follow in mid-century pop, as their roles are so minimized in that form of music. So, I think it's a phenomena that is rather nuanced.
What??? If you're gonna write nonsense at least make it funny.
I was actually just reading and thinking about the gender imbalances in instruments yesterday, because I was talking to my parents and my sister and we realized that our parents pushed all 3 of us into different instruments from what we first wanted.
My brother wanted to play flute, and they pushed him to trombone, and my sister wanted to play drums and they pushed her to flute. It wasn’t out of them feeling it was wrong to play the other instrument, but because they thought they’d be made fun of for playing the other instrument. Both eventually ended up switching to what they wanted and then later quit band and stopped playing altogether.
For me, I don’t think it was a gender thing. I wanted an alto sax and my parents made me choose the trumpet. My mom says it was because they couldn’t afford a sax.
@@thomasdequincey5811 what's nonsensical about what I said?
Thank you for this video. Maybe I can provide some old fart perspective 😃. As a child in the 70s I saw the older people feel the brunt of their creativity being appropriated with whites making millions and the black’s being poorer for it. From swing to early jazz to blues to rock and roll which has its basis in the blues and so forth. That can generate a lot of resentment in a community where a group’s creativity is constantly marginalized. I’m happy to see that the zoomers are much more open and accepting so in this light I think we can discuss jazz from my point of view (as an old fart). For me, I keep things simple. Does it make my head bob, and does the artist improvise. Laufey does the first but not the second. I like her music as it makes my head bob, but she’s not improvising within the verses. For a good example of what I mean, listen to some Carmen McRae. Improvising within the verse comes from the old style black gospel tradition. Which is why singers like Aretha sound like they do. This isn’t some awful thing as there are excellent jazz singers out there, Samara Joy as one of the excellent young singers for example. Anyway music is music. Enjoy it and celebrate the artist creating it.
thank you for sharing your perspective! it was really nice to hear what you seen and experience. great insight on your part
just out of curiosity, was there ever a discussion like this when Norah Jones was very popular around the time she won the best album grammy? whether she is the “saviour of jazz” etc? was jazz dying back then as well?
That’s a really good question. Just off the top of my head- but if memory serves me Norah wasn’t marketed at Blue Note records “jazz” she was adult contemporary/ easy listening played in Starbucks. For Norah I think her timing was everything. She has a unique story to begin with. From her very famous father to the moment she broke the mainstream. Her song Don’t Know Why came out during a very introspective moment in the US grieving 9/11. It was very soothing music. There are theories about that post 9/11 moment perfect for her “jazzy” Starbucks songs. But I have no memory of Blue Note mark in ting her as a “jazz savior” This sounds more like Ryan Gosling in La La Land than Norah
Norah Jones was a huge coup for Blue Note records after a period of “Jazz is dead” sentiment following the neoclassical wave of treating jazz like classical music. I wouldn’t be surprised if she was absolutely anointed jazz’s savior or something else like that.
I wonder if a veteran jazz journalist like Nate Chinen would be willing to speak to this
Your thoughts on jazz not being a space for women are something I've been trying to put into words for a while. I've been so interested in jazz (my school has a super amazing jazz program) but I feel like it's near impossible for me to participate in it, when there are boys already involved who can play just as well as me. Also, what you said about women being "an accessory" to men in jazz is so true, to the point that there was a teacher at my school who told the "jazz boys" to not bring their girlfriends into the band room because the girls make them seem "less professional." Thank you for saying it like it is on a topic I know so many girls and women (myself included) are wary to speak out on.
hi there! i’m so glad that that part of the video resonated with you. i’m also so sorry to hear that this is the environment that your teacher is choosing to cultivate. it’s a terrible message your teacher is sending. i think more of us are starting to question those dated ways of thinking and create spaces for us when historically there wasn’t!
It's two different issues. I would assume the "girlfriends" in questions aren't there to jam and practice, so it would be less professional for them to participate.
The jazz scene in the past was a very hostile, misogynistic environment. There's a recorded interview with Stan Getz out there where he straight up says "Jazz is a man's game."
@@chizhang2765 I would make a Yoko joke, but the assumption is they're not even there to participate, just for the guy to show off to which is a terrible part of the culture of young jazz musicians. Comes off as very egotistical and shows you're not participating for the music, but for the accolades. These are the types of people who vibes on others.
Yeah, you shouldn’t bring your girlfriend/boyfriend to practice if they’re not there to practice with you…
When laufey sits down to write a song, is she really asking the question, is it jazz, am I saving jazz, what genre of music should it fit neatly into? For anyone to do that would be stifle their own creativity. Given the wealth of musical knowledge we now have, an artist can incorporate anything they want and be inspired from whatever genre, whether classical, jazz, Latin, to accomplish the feelings and emotions they want to achieve. And that's the difference, Laufey's songs do touch a lot of people, while a lot of jazz, jazz clubs, jazz jams, make people, me included, feel nothing at all, except to admire the skills at playing the instruments but nothing beyond that. There is no need to over analyse, just ask, am I enjoying this?
Well said 👏
Great video, also props to Adam Neely for recognising that there was something missing from his recent video and adding your content to his channel.
Initially I was hesitant to even watch this content because most likely, this discussion of “is Laufey jazz” only exists because she was placed in this category by an algorithm. The unfortunate thing is that I cannot easily come up with an alternate genre definition for her work. When I hear her songs I think that she’s perfectly reflecting an old timey romanticism of the same vibe as I dunno, a love song written by Cole Porter or the like. Then there’s also a bit of a bossa nova component. Both referenced in a way that point back to periods in time where white American musicians were very successful with this specific type of whitewashing of both black American and South American music. So: I’m hearing a type of mid 1900s mainstream pop. Which is only tied to jazz in the most marginal way.
Ima say: Laufey is great at embodying old timey kitsch, and I assume she’s also very aware of the cultural histories of these styles. Would she even want to get into more “jazz” based musical circles at this point in her life? Probably not, or not yet. Adam Neely pointing the finger at Laufey and telling her to go to a jam session seems completely besides the point. The main question is not about Laufey, but about jazz as a whole - why do people not understand jazz for what it is. And then drag a young female musician into the discourse who really doesn’t need to be involved. Why is jazz invisible to the algorithms that now govern our culture, and what can we learn from this question. The answer has something to do with capitalism and colonialism of course but who cares I need to stop ranting now. Thanks bye! ❤️
I wonder why Jon batiste, thundercat were never called “savior of jazz” when they’re nearer to the genre. Also there’s something weird about saying jazz is unapproachable but laufey is.. jazz has always been very full and complex why water it down?
Thundercat gets hate for being "funk" and Jon gets crap for having vocals - and both get the same end of the stick of crusty cats complaining new jazz isn't a 1:1 of Miles or Coltrane.
I think almost all forms of gatekeeping are dumb, especially when utilizing immutable characteristics like race/ethnicity as a weapon to gatekeep. Jazz (and every other form of music) grows through inspiration and sharing. When culture/music is so ardently gatekept, the gatekeepers are only doing damage to their traditions by pushing away those who might learn to appreciate and grow/propagate said traditions.
People should not need to belong to X race, Y Class, or Z ethnicity to enjoy and build upon tradition that inspires them. Sharing culture should be celebrated!
In regards to Laufey, I think nit-picking what historical genre her music belongs to is kind of silly. In the end, all of these musical categories are man-made and only exist because we get some utility out of them. The more time one spends dissecting her music to argue over what genre it should belong to, the more it feels like gatekeeping. I reckon people should not worry so much what mainstream articles say about the categorization of Laufey's music, and just enjoy her music for what it is.
Well put. Art is a conversation and any attempt to wall it off and purify it smothers it’s power.
Wish this would get pinned
As nice and wholesome that is I don't think it's honestly realistic or fair to say that about the different communities that decide to gatekeep thier music. Most if not all musical genres are tied to an identity that represents the group of people preforming it and that group of people have given it meaning and value which is called culture. To just let outsiders walk in and take aspects or even worst completely change the original culture would just be baffling and disrespectful, especially when they don't understand it. Yes it's true that growth in a genre (or anything really) won't happen until it's boundaries are pushed. But it's important to remember that the "rules" or general understanding in particular culture are there for reason and most of the time it's because that's wat shapes the genre identity. Like imagine a rock band claiming to be a baroque string quartet but that only string instruments are the bass and the guitar 😐. Also I'd like to add that genre is just a general idea, an artist doesn't have to adhere to it but if an artist DOES claim a genre that it's only fair to critique their music for not having any major elements of what their music is supposed to be based on.
@@KOOLBOYSC1I think time plays a role. As in a century of time is beyond fair game for a genre to have assimilated, evolved, permeated etc. 10 years max is probably the norm, if that.
Naturally, a musical subculture that defines (to whatever degree) a community's identity will be more charged and will necessarily "gate keep" to allow that community to build it's identity. I'm all for that type of gate keeping to stave off cynical or clueless comidification or opportunistic co-opting. To allow the art to organically grow based on its original intent and influence And even that will fail to be homogeneous to some degree. But at a certain point the SUCCESS of that subculture and its art will surpass its ability to gatekeep or contain it. It's no longer an infant that requires (or will tolerate) protecting and nurturing by the small community that birthed it. It's out in the world (all growns up!) And that's just how art and culture goes in a multicultural environment. It's a good thing.
I guess you don't know the old trope that White English Rock & Roll bands saved 'The Blues", another Black American music genre. The Blues is also part of Rhythm & Blues, but the Blues as done by Robert Johnson, Muddy Waters, John Lee Hooker, Delta Blues Memphis Blues, Chicago Blues is separate. Hundreds of Blues artists began to receive attention in the 60s and 70s that would have otherwise remained faceless, unknown and ignored. Of course the cries about another group of White musicians like Elvis, stealing Black music. No credit given, ignoring the culture. This is tiresome. Elvis respected the Blues and Black gospel music. That's no question. I never would have known about Robert Johnson without Led Zeppelin. I never would have known about Bessie Smith and Big Mama Thornton without Janis Joplin. All artists who respected and praised Blues players and singers.
Growing up in Japan in the 70s, Electric Blues bands were some of the most popular bands around. One of my personal favorites was Carmen Maki and OZ band, before that she had an album with Blues Creation. She was very much influenced by Janis Joplin and Grace Slick. I was 15-16 years old and I loved that hard rock Blues sound. I also got into Jazz at that time due to playing it in Stage Band. Was it 'The Blues?' It was far removed from Robert Johnson playing 12 bar blues on a beat up guitar into a microphone in a studio, onto wax for a few dollars in the 30s. He made probably $300 total for those sessions. What would have happened if Eric Clapton, Led Zeppelin and the Rolling Stones had never heard about Robert Johnson?
And you really need to stop talking about Jazz as if there is just one form of Jazz. Please introduce genres of Jazz such as BIg Band, Ragtime, Modal, Be-Bop, Dixieland, Free Jazz, Jazz-Rock Fusion, cool Jazz or Miles Davis Bitches Brew to some of your Gen-Z friends and sit them down to listen to it and see how long before they start looking at their iPhones and looking for an excuse to get the F out of there.
Smooth Jazz came on the radio in the 80s and single handedly revived the careers of many jazz & R&B artists, new young artists, were able to become successful ina genre that was pretty much a dead end if you were a horn or woodwind player in high school or college, especially if you liked Jazz. Hard core Jazz purists hated Smooth Jazz. Laufey is perfect for Smooth Jazz with her vocals and mid-century pop, light Jazz arrangements. The audience for Smooth Jazz was at one time over 70% white, 28% Black. so what demographic is keeping Jazz alive? Gate keepers who say it ain't jazz unless it is a Black/artist/musician is self defeating.
I went to see Dave Koz for his Smooth Jazz Summer Concert at the Hollywood Bowl. Full house and the audience was probably 50% Black. The audience for the most part was older, I'm 66, came to listen to a White Saxophone player, who plays pop Jazz. My 36 year old daughter wouldn't be caught dead at a Smooth Jazz concert, let alone the Playboy Jazz Festival. Jazz radio is dead, Smooth Jazz is a shadow of it's past popularity, blame mismanagement and tiresome playlists. Younger listeners are not attracted to the genre. You think that giving Grammys to Esperanza Spalding and Samara Joy is going to have Gen-Z flocking to their concerts? Both are great but not my cup of tea. They are not going to 'save' Jazz anymore than Laufey.
I liked the Tabakin/Akiyoshi big band, Sadao Watanabe, Ryo Kawasaki. I loved Chick Corea, Return to Forever, Mahavishnu Orchestra, Miles Davis, Joe Pass, Benny Goodman Orchestra, Duke Ellington. So my love for Jazz goes back decades.
Throwing shade at Laufey is the last thing Jazz needs. To be honest, her music lulls me to sleep, but otherwise it's listenable. Her voice is pleasant and her song choices and arrangements, even solo with guitar are pretty good. How is she different from Norah Jones singing 'I don't Know Why?' Is it Jazz? Yes, a form of Jazz. Wasn't she supposed to be the new face of Jazz? Just as there are multiple forms and types of Jazz that don't sound anything alike, Laufey is singing and playing a soft pop lyrical style that incorporates a taste of influences, even Jazz, here and there. You and others think she needs to jump all in and slap Gen-Z in the face with Miles Davis or Art Blakey or some other 'real' Jazz.
Wynton Marsalis was another Grammy winner who was supposed to save Jazz as well, except he trashed talked non-traditional Jazz artists. The perception of Jazz is the problem. The perception of old school Jazz to a Gen-Z audience is the problem. Trying to force Jazz onto them(You don't know what real Jazz is!!!) is a problem.
i think you need to watch the video again because you missed the point
"It's not exclusive, but inclusive, which is the whole spirit of jazz." - Herbie Hancock
💯
Heya just came across your video, really well made! I was thinking about a lot of things you mentioned in this vid after I watched the Neely video as well. You should do more of this style of content vid essay stuff about music - the format suits you!
I think Laufey's songs got a lil bit of jazz here and there. But, to hype her as the savior of jazz is just doesn't sound right. Why?
Not because of her skin color. It's more about the culture. She's so disconnected with people that have been doing jazz, she always talks about jazz as past tense. That's disrespectful to jazz musicians. If they're not on the Billboard top 100 or get millions of streams on Spotify, doesn't mean jazz is dead. It's alive and well in small club, where Laufey never mind visiting and performing there. Even on her own concert, she performs like orchestra. No improvisation whatsoever. And people want to call her savior of jazz?
I like how its degrading that Laufey is being called the savior of Jazz in some circles, but the post hipsters who want to try and label it a black folk music and want to defend it do not seem to be black either lol
you know this video is real because there's a focusrite audio interface just sitting there
Isn’t Laufey mixed though? It’s hard to say she’s fully reaping the benefits of white privilege when she’s not fully white, nor does she look white.
hi! just want to point out that i didn't call laufey white. that was directed towards the press that has been pushing this narrative of saviorism which is rooted in a history of erasure (aka white-washed media). hope that clears that up
Just in case, she is icelandic-chinese if you are still wondering
First video like this but hopefully not the last.
much love and thank you for watching!
Honestly, with jam sessions I think in general it's a very uninviting space. Not to discount certain prejudices women can exclusively face in that environment, but every jam session I've been to has been a terrible experience.
As a Jazz musician in Toronto in 4th year of humber, the city is full of Jazz musicians, between York, U of T and Humber as well as the professors and alumni. However, being in such an educational space invites so much competition.
The last time I went to a jam session, I went up to play and so did this other alto player I had never seen before. We played and all solo'd but when it came to his solo, he clearly struggled. He was clearly new and trying to figure things out, but instead of encouraging, the tenor saxophonist (Who is very big in the Jazz scene known throughout the world), started playing over him during his solo. The tenor player then passed the solo on to the drummer to basically shut him up.
After the tune finished, the female bass player loudly recommended towards the bassist we play something simple like a blues. So, we ended up playing a Bb blues, and I noticed everyone in the band ignored this player and didn't allow him to solo.
I find the idea that you should just practice to backing tracks for 4000 hours before ever going to a jam, a very gatekeeping viewpoint. Which is another reason many people find it too daunting of a music to start playing. As well as the media that has come out that has either directly or indirectly supported emotional (and sometimes physical) abuse to the people who can't play jazz very well in order to "encourage" them. I.e. Whiplash, and general stories told through the community about the jazz greats being abused before "getting good,"
At the end of the night I was told I was good and even received a random follow on instagram from the tenor player and a DM saying that I played really well. But I would still not go back. Sure, I ended up getting positive feedback because I'm a professional player, which is great, but what happens when I have an off night and can't play as well? or a tune I don't know that I then have to ear? Most importantly, what happens to the inexperienced kid who just wanted to have fun? Will he ever pursue the music? Will he ever pursue a musical education?
So, to laufey's credit, I understand her not wanting to go to a Jazz jam. What happens when she goes, and has to scat over giant steps and can't do it well. Will the Jazz community actually be inviting when she gets there? I think they would be, but only because she could call them for a gig. Someone else with the same level of talent might be ridiculed.
What a dumb thing to be concerned about. Next youre gonna tell me I can't praise your song covers since you aren't from the same ethnic background as the original composers. lol
Jimi Hendrix did rock and roll.
Norah Jones did Jazz.
Eminem did Rap.
Look at how many Asians become elite classical musicians.
You dont need to be a certain skin color to have others label you a great. Everyone has their opinions.
Exactly 💯
Rock and roll is African American and Jimi Hendrix is African American lol so this proves nothing. The debate is more about cultural ownership of musical art as well asAfrican Americans are tired of being disrespected and bullied out of the genres that they have created by the white majority in the United States. It’s not about musical talent that people are upset about, but the apathy towards the cultural nuances of participating in African American genres of music that were made during such arduous times (slavery, Jim Crow, etc.). It is similar to being culturally aware of being a non Indigenous person entering a Powwow.
The savior can only be black??
Sure she’s more pop but what kind of arguments are those?
i swear to god the reading comprehension in so many of the comments here is just tragic
Music doesn’t belong to any racial or ethnic group. This whole mindset of “white people stealing bad” IS gate keeping and it’s how culture (read pure untainted black oppression protest Jazz) dies.
Regarding the sexism in jazz - perhaps it’s also a part of the conservative nature of “true” jazz that has its culture 100 years ago. That’s the nature of conservative movements and why it’s contradictory to gate-keep jazz based on skin color but not gender.
music can be enjoyed and played by all but it also has history and culture. for example, if i wanted to play enka music, no one would have a problem with calling it japanese music. we can acknowledge it has other influences but doesn’t take away the fact that it’s japanese. i think we need to examine why we take issue with calling the music a black american artform. it doesn’t exclude anyone just because the music is from somewhere.
just to be clear, white people never took jazz away from anyone. it was always alive in the community. what i’m saying in the video is the media often doesn’t have an understanding of jazz and often misrepresents it. also, it has a history of erasure and savior complexes that we probably should talk about.
i suggest watching the video more carefully to get my main talking points.
This wouldn’t be a problem is laufey played actual jazz LOL.
The fact that she’s not a progressive jazz singer but is so popular is and indication that not as many people are looking for jazz. There are more progressive singers in r and b etc, and more complex instrumental expression to be explored with electronic effects etc. that are allowed in other genres, so the traditional tools of jazz are limiting now.
The very first statement is questionable, since jazz stylings were employed by both Black and Jewish musicians--and others in the Big Band tradition.
quite a vicious video really if you consider what it implies. i have nothing to do with jazz nor im black, but i think jazz doesnt need @mitamu to defend either
not sure what you feel this video is implying but my main point is that the media has a history of erasure and savior complexes and it's happened to jazz before. the general public's view on jazz has been built on misunderstandings and stereotypes. i think there are many in the jazz community that do not feel comfortable with having laufey being called its savior for various reasons. as i mentioned in my video, i'm not here to speak ill of lauvey. personally, i think it's great that she's becoming an access point to younger audiences to the genre, but like i said, erasure and misrepresentation of jazz by the media is really what we should be mindful of. hope that helps to clarify
@@mitamu that you don't seem to approve that she's not the right ethnicity and it's not cool for her to be successful and be associated with jazz. you kinda saying that California roll is not sushi and you have to be this and that. like of course Laufey isnt the original jazz concept i think most ppl can tell, and most ppl know that jazz is mostly black. I personally dont think any genre needs saving, but i think what these press article mean by 'saviour' is that she is making jazz-related styles mainstream again the way it was more of a mainstream thing in 40s or 50s. why not let her be an influence that is associated with the jazz genre? to me as a layperson she doesnt seem to be some harcore jazz-jazz, but to me she falls under the broad spectrum of jazz by the sound of her music. by you saying that she is a force of white washing, seems to me that ppl like you create this kinda special society you have to fit in certain criteria to be part of the club
@@polikun2884 those are not the points i made. i did not say that laufey cannot be successful or associated with jazz. if that's the case, then i would not be the "right" ethnicity either. of course she can be a jazz musician and my intention is not to exclude her. as i stated in my video and reply, this is a video about how i don't agree with the media's narrative of savior complex and its history of misrepresenting jazz music and culture. i provide some context of why i think that has happened in the past and compare it to what is going on today. this is not a "laufey is not a jazz musician" video. towards the end of my video, i state that it's kinda a silly question and who's to say that laufey cannot be jazz? i think laufey might be disconnected from jazz culture and its community which is why the "savior" phrase does not sit well with jazz musicians. i think it would be great if she engaged in the community and culture. i encourage you to watch the video and listen to those points again for further clarity. in any case, i hope that my intentions are clearer in this reply.
The only point that I would slightly disagree with you on in the video is about the whole black American art form. I am thoroughly against all skin colour identity politics being placed on music and art. People would identify me as a black person, but I do not use skin colour as an identity. That's just me. And that's my personal view. However, I do not think that it is healthy for us as musicians and music lovers to follow down that narrative of skin colour origin and ownership, so to speak, of a musical genre. If anything, it serves to divide music lovers more than it unites us. Yes, it is good for us to know what circumstances created the culture for a particular musical genre to be created, but apart from that no further value should be placed on skin colour.
hey! thanks for your comment. so just to be clear, everyone is allowed to participate and contribute to jazz. for example, i am a jazz musician and i am not black. many people that are non-black, such as chet baker and bill evans, contributed great things to jazz. something that my jazz mentors, elders, and contemporaries have taught me is to yes, be part of jazz, but understand that this music is part of black culture/experience. like any culture, we respect it.
my point in this video is a criticism towards the press for creating narratives with savior complexes and often erasure of marginalized groups. laufey is great. how the press is writing about her is not doing anyone favors
@@mitamu I get you. I understand the context you're approaching it from, and I definitely agree with you that there has been a narrative of saviour complexes perpetuated by the media over the years.
What my issue was, an it's really kind of a nitpick. Is that personally I would rather you say that Laufey a Non- American is being portrayed as a saviour of an American Art -form created by formerly enslaved Americans.
This way the focus is more on the cultural heritage of the creators and not the skin colour of the creators.
That being said, I absolutely love your content! Keep doing what you're doing. And you've earned yourself a life-long Subscriber!!!! 😇😇😇😇😇
Ultimately though, these genres of music are African American which has been tied with being black in the United States for nearly 400 years. Racial identity is intertwined with cultural identity in the United States because the foundations of this country was colonialism, enslaving people of African descent and taking lands of indigenous people. Whether you identify as black or not, this musical art has complex history and important elements that are deeply rooted in African American experiences during Jim Crow and being a couple decades right after emancipation. People of other cultures can definitely love jazz, but they ultimately are guests in this community, just like non Indigenous people are guests at a Powwow.
@@jacobschimp7939 I mean fundamentally I agree with you. Perspective is that as a Jamaican who others would identify as black I have no cultural claim to jazz music which is why I think that the categorization of African-American is more specific and less complicated than to color code the music especially seeing that no other musical outside of African and African-American music are color-coded
Women aren’t welcome in jam sessions is such bull. Maybe back when Melba Winston was alive it was like this but idk if you’ve ever been to a jazz jam session but women are very much appreciated and respected
Everyone I knew who ended up being obsessed with Laufey had shocked me by weeks before saying they couldn’t stand jazz
I like her music, but the attitude that she has of “saving jazz” rubbed me the wrong way bc many of my gen z friends are jazz musicians! What do you mean you’re bringing it to this generation?
(Also, I think it’s pronounced lay ‘vay)
That’s how she had it spelled out in her Instagram bio for a while, anyway
@@Billie12208 its /ˈlɔuːβ,øy̯ː/ (not perfect, but damn close)
"lay-vay" is both innaccurate and can be interpreted in so many ways
Laufey isn't Jazz. It's MOR. That's why you can hate Jazz and still like Laufey.
@@Billie12208 You not realizing the space you're in with your young peers being an outlier for young culture is kinda cute. The masses aren't listening to jazz, young or old.
Music is music. Maybe it originates from a culture or race, but a couple steps before that, it's music. Anybody gatekeeping music on a racial pretense is probably alittle racist. The artist and the listener are THE continuum.
PERIODT.
From what I've heard from Laufey, she actually seems to have real chops and talent. Her ennunciation is the thing which seems most at odds with traditional jazz vocals and denuded of blues influence . That said, I think someone who doesn't have a feel for the blues singing blues inflected jazz probably feels much more appropriative than Laufey's approach. Maybe some folks migrate from listening to her to other folks more at home in the tradition. I don't think there is anything wrong with folks liking her as a one off so long as her approach doesn't set the standard for what is expected for new jazz artists (and in particular recording artists).
idk what's going on, but I just enjoy the music.
While I absolutely adore Laufeys music ,personally I don't think her music is Jazz, its pop (soft pop) with many Jazz influences and inspirations.
I disagree with Jazz being gatekept, in fact, I feel it is one of the most openly welcoming communities. The problem is people seem to be turned off or scared with the idea of it and stay away from it.
i agree, i think the idea of it being gatekept is due to the media. jazz is welcoming. to be part of it, you gotta want to learn it and be part of the community. it’s not exclusive but a lot of people don’t want to rise to the occasion and start mystifying it.
that being said, i don’t think there’s denying that jazz spaces can create unwelcoming environments for women and such. that’s been a problem but it’s getting better.
So jazz belongs to black people. (your words) Good to know. Because it's definetly not a merge of african-american ethnical rythm and western melodical-harmonic themes. Barrocon harmony has nothing to do with it, there's clearly no correlation, and there was definetly not people from many ethnics participating in it's development. Jesus, get educated, how can you state something like that. There was definetly more "black" people on the movement and it meant a lot for them, it was a social movement too, etc. of course i acknowledge that but women, stating jazz music belongs to black people is false. Music doesn't belong to anybody and it's a result of humankind wonder period.
And i'm a jazz player, and my idols are people like Miles Davis, Cannonball, Coltrane and the like, but also Bill Evans and Chet Baker. They all shaped jazz as it is and are all from very diferent backgrounds. But yeah, is also fact that "black" ethnic population was the protagonist of the movement. Protagonists and owners though, are two very diferent things.
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Jesus yall have such a weird attitude when people say that certain things belong to African Americans. A quick google search shows that the art form was created and made by African Americans before it became popular throughout the US.
You are very correct about jam spaces. I have tried to go to a local one, but it's almost always just guys.
In my schooling jazz was never called a "black American art form." I went to school in the 90's, though, and I'm looking at your reading material now. It was called to us an "indigenous American art form." There are obvious white pioneers of jazz, as well, such as Benny Goodman and Glenn Miler. I think your video has racial bigotry, but you're obviously influenced by critical race theory.
Jazz is gatekept by old men like me but also by cultural guardians like you. I think both habits need to stop though cultural sensitivity should absolutely inform how we talk about this.
I will argue that practitioners (like Laufey) don't save such a huge cultural phenomenon like "Jazz", which I see as an anarchic and diverse language (yes, surely born out of oppression, but also out of a need for delight) that engages emotionally and viscerally in a uniquely personal manner. All most practitioners can do is utilise a subset of its idioms. It is teachers, rather, and who they teach, who will bust the gates open.
Classical music was for the rich, the few who could gain access to the courts. A few expensive salons broadened the experience, but it was not until we started to see the socialist mindset take a hold that the working class were considered suitable recipients of the experience. Ideas are shareable without depletion, all they need, out of politeness, is acknowledgement of their origins.
I think a teacher like Joan Chamorro in Catalonia has done more to save jazz than any, by giving kids a wide experience of performing every kind of Jazz with world class jazz musicians, in public performance. Its notable that it is women from the Sant Andreu Jazz Band that are carving out the most spectacular careers in music, composition and performance. Check out Andrea Motis, Rita Payes, Elia Bastida, Alba Armengou, Magali Datzira... and the thousand or so SAJB videos on TH-cam.
A concert this summer in Madrid will put Laufey and Rita Payes back to back. There is a video (a bit rubbish) that chops between each as they perform "Blame it on my Youth." Its revealing.
A lot of you guys misinterpret it when people said that laufey is not jazz. Laufey is not jazz is the same as saying laufey is not metal. It's about genre, not about how good/bad she is.
She's so good, one of the best pop artists today imo. Her music is so refreshing.
Jazz music was the pop music of the1920's - 1950's - all you naval gazers need to chill out - music and art evolve - Laufey is 'Jazz' in that mid-century pop definition and she is bringing her version of 'Jazz' to the masses - stop being so hyper critical - Laufey is a fantastic musician and singer-songwriter - you all need to get over yourselves! She can do her own thing for goodness sake!
"to have a non black person being touted as the savior of jazz, jus doesn't look right". wow, that's pretty racist. But I shouldn't expect differently from a Japanese.
The jam sessions being a “man’s” space is weird to me. The only jam session I’ve ever seen was at a bar in Texas and it was about half and half women and men. Now, it never had singing. And it included a ton of students in the local school jazz program, so I guess it’s just different. Maybe a bar in Texas is just less sexist than a jazz session in a northern big city.
Jazz is a musical language. With the option of adding 9, 11 and 13 to the chords a very interesting one. It is there to be spoken by who ever likes to do so, anywhere, in whatever context and with or without company. Oh, try & guess - in what category is Laufey a Grammy Nominee ? - : "Best Traditional Pop Vocal Album"
I feel bad for Laufey she just wants to make music and she's being ostracized by this community. I think she'll be chased away from ever going near jazz, plus she also has to be of a specific color so I'm sure she'll sure as heck stay away from it.
Unfortunately for her, she's the face of jazz to many people, including Spotify.
I can't wait to see Samara Joy next month😉 thanks for your service.. defending jazz is a duty. I'm always explaining this to the people who don't know what it is and claim that they don't like it. Diana Krall had to go commercial to be heard as a jazz pianist. It's sad. ❤