Absolutely love this, especially the discussion re: woman and jam sessions/the male-dominated jazz spaces! It was a discussion sorely lacking in my own video, so thank you. One of the reasons why I highlighted Emmet's Place in particular is that he's good about being inclusive in ways that traditionally aren't super jazz (episode 60 pride episode, ex). There is still a lot of work to be done to create new spaces and expand existing spaces to accept more gender diversity, but there is progress. That said, I realize the ambivalence towards me at the end of my Laufey video inviting her to jazz jams. I know how absurd that might feel and seem when the jazz community can be so toxic, and honestly, I don't blame her and others for saying "fuck jazz, stop the gatekeeping, I hate this culture." I get it. Complicated. Do you mind if I share/signal boost this video?
hi adam! i'm so glad to hear you enjoyed this and also thank you for making your own video. it really inspired me to say my piece about this as well. very much agree that progress is being done. emmet's place being a great example of the shift in mindset. i would be honored if you shared this video. much love!
Adam Neely is right. When talking about music the most important thing is to virtue signal. He missed that opportunity in his video and, therefore, failed.
There’s one thing that I think is glazed over in both of your videos: The skill barrier. There is enormous elitism around different echelons of skill within the community, and most vibing and gate keeping takes place along that axis. You are being judged in real time for your technical abilities, the depth of harmonic vocabulary, even your creative and aesthetic choices. (I’ve even seen Patrick Bartley vibed for his creative and aesthetic decisions to include Jpop and vgm in his playing) They’re both great videos and it’s wonderful that we’re bringing the cultural issues to the forefront, but I feel like there’s an awkward truth here that threatens to undercut all of the cultural elements at play. If you can’t hang, you’re getting vibed. You are going to walk away from the bandstand with the feeling that you are not worthy. That’s the majority of the real gate keeping that has been going on for years and likely one of the largest reasons Laufey is calling Jazz a “gatekept” space. That’s not to discount what you’re saying. I’m just surprised that nobody is really talking about it.
As a black person who thoroughly enjoys jazz since birth, I actually thank Laufey. I believe that when they mean reviving jazz they mean in this generation which I'm strongly apart of. despite the race, I'm sure anyone of any culture is allowed to be made by anyone.. as long as people remember and keep in mind where it originates.
hi and thanks for commenting. laufey is great for bringing the genre to more listeners. that is explained well in adam’s video too. and i agree, it’s important to know where the music originates because like any culture, it’s important to give respect to it. l opted for the more icelandic pronunciation of her name. she gives two pronunciation guides in her interview with elle
The likes of Nora Jones and Esperanza Spalding have at some point or the other in the past 20 years been called the saviour of jazz (even though Jones was more pop than jazz imho)I think the real problem here is always viewing EVERYTHING from the perspective of identity politics. There's too much of that kind of negativity going round in the world.
Laufey is clearly a throwback to the golden age of pop singers mingling with jazz but I don't hear any of the consistent elements of jazz in her music. Perhaps the fact that she sings songs that are slightly more harmonically complex makes her music sound "Jazzy", but her songs align far more with the showtunes of Broadway that also happen to overlap with much of jazz music. I think she is analogous to what Amy Winehouse did with classic soul music. She provided a kind of nostalgic recreation, which was very genuine and well crafted but was a very clear and intentional act.
Exactly. The appeal is well crafted nostalgia and kitsch. The label jazz is slapped on because there is no other commonly used term for this sort of retro genre. I enjoy that this whole mislabeling thing seems to be spawning a bunch of discussion of cultural history and present day culture, but that doesn’t need to happen on Laufey’s back, just let her make her kitschy tunes and move into a different discussion space. The fact that some content creators are writing “is Laufey the savior of jazz” etc simply because she appears in this Spotify category is mind meltingly stupid
@@lizardmix There is always attempts to push Jazz into a cultural spotlight, but I think most forms of jazz just aren’t capable of being neatly packaged and presented as a mass music like pop or rock. That’s why artists like Laufey get backlash when they are labeled as “jazz” because they have become unwilling martyrs for the cause of bringing jazz any type of attention. I think it brings good and bad. “Any press is good press” certainly applied, and maybe Laufey introduces some people to enjoy music that is vaguely jazz. On the other hand, I don’t think she is a very good representation of the jazz genre, and like the video mentions she really isn’t a jazz artist in the strict sense of the term. 🤷🏼
I love this ‘mid-century pop’ term for Laufey… she is an incredible talent, writing beautiful songs - and is hugely popular… A jazzy musician - not a jazz musician! And if through her, young people discover the jazz greats, then she may well be saving jazz!
She's absolutely a jazz musician. You just can't handle her not being 100% jazz. Jazz people are so cringe for this very reason. It's ironic since the expansion of jazz was hinged on it changing and evolving.
@@WaitingForTheHook Not being Jazz doesn't equate to not good. She writes good music, but there's nothing wrong with her music not being Jazz. I think you are the cringy one for thinking if someone says something is not Jazz they must be shitting on the music. I mean I can say her music is not Metal. That doesn't mean I'm saying she's shit artist. I think it's your own insecurity seeping out.
i think this video is very well put! i am both an avid laufey and jazz fan, and i think it is clear how some of her music takes inspiration from jazz (i think of Dreamer for example), but i totally agree that it’s extremely misleading to say she ONLY draws inspo from jazz, therefore solely making her a jazz musician. there’s absolutely elements of classical, pop, showtune, etc in her music. i think laufey is a beautiful mix of all of these, and there’s great overlap between them all. the issue is that people see glimpses of jazz in laufey’s music, and instead of exploring more of the genre, they just stop at laufey and claim her as jazz, and this is simply due to ignorance, but that’s dangerous! i hope some of these people pushing laufey as some new standard for jazz realize that not only are they discrediting the rich black roots and themes of jazz, but they’re actually totally disregarding laufey’s unique and personal sound.
I don’t really get this take honestly. Jazz has always taken inspiration from pop and classical. Did everyone forget that Gershwin created a whole songbook of what became jazz standards or something? Or that My Favorite Things, a pop song, is a jazz standard? Laufey is literally no different in that regard. Miles Davis in the 1980s literally just straight up covered a bunch of contemporary pop of the era in his live shows. Is that not jazz somehow? Being trained classically doesn’t mean you aren’t jazz. I guess that means Nina Simone, Herbie Hancock, Hiromi Uehara, Keith Jarrett, and multitudes of others aren’t jazz anymore. Oops! Is Allen Toussaint, one of the biggest popularizers and proponents of the New Orleans sound over the past 70 years, not jazz because he also loved to make R&B albums and wrote songs for pop artists? Laughable take. This is actually the real reason jazz isn’t popular anymore. The “jazz culture” is a bunch of elitists that took over the genre in the 70s and 80s with regressive definitions (Wynton Marsalis as well as white dominated academia). No one wants to associate with jazz snobs.
My only issue with the criticism of Laufey is that maybe she just doesn't want to do straight jazz. Everyone telling her to immerse herself with other jazz musicians doesn't take any account about what she wants. She is making the type of music she wants. Yes, it has jazz elements, but it's her own thing. And maybe, just maybe that's all she wants to do is continue combining her love of musical theater and jazz into one.
100% agree. She has said in past interviews that she’s a huge Taylor Swift fan because of the way she tells stories through her songs. And so Laufey wanted to combine story telling in the kind of music style she grew up listening to (jazz/classical), but also, adding a modern twist to appeal to the new generation. Of course, she needs to have her own unique style to stand out and I think she did a great job at achieving that. Obviously if her style was just straight up jazz, she will not be as popular with the gen z crowd. Also, since she enjoyed listening to jazz/classical as a child, she felt like an outsider because that wasn’t what other kids were listening to. So now through her music, she wants to inspire kids of today and send the message that if they want to listen to jazz or whatever music they like, that they shouldn’t feel ashamed, even if it’s not what other people are listening to these days.
I strongly agree! What happened to jazz being inclusive lol?The fact that this question is even brought up is gatekeeping her from jazz. I agree with the creator of this video, as she states this question is uninteresting and it leads to uninteresting answers.
she's categorized as jazz singer to make it easier to recognize for larger audiences but i don't think she's just jazz but she had more pop sound in her album Typical of Me and has deep understanding of classical music. she's jazz/classic/pop all combined and making completely new genre for pop audiences. that's why people are discussing her i guess.
It feels wrong to call Laufey the savior of Jazz especially with artist like Samara Joy. Samara Joy who has won awards for her music and gives you that classic Jazz feeling while still being modern. I like both Samara and Laufey but Samara was the first on stage with a jazz performance at the Grammys so she would seem to be the "reviver" of Jazz, at least closer to mainstream and for younger people. It is clear thought why people would ignore Samara but love Laufey. It's not the first time but I hope it's the last. (Samara is also one of two Jazz singers to win best new artist in all of history at the Grammys which is hard considering Jazz isn't even considered popular right now. If that doesn't say modern Jazz pioneer, I don't know what will)
@@Woodsarasthat is laughably naive and patently wrong, a savior of what, black people? Go back and watch the whole video again. You probably think Taylor Swift makes her own music. SMDH
I would also say that both of these women can only be seen as "saving" jazz if being at the top of the charts or lauded by white award shows was the goal in the first place. If that was never the goal, jazz never needed saving
@@colin-nekritz Nah, I think MichaelJamesCollins point is unironically correct. Sure Samara Joy won a Grammy, but jazz already has the kind of prestige that comes from winning awards. Basically everybody these days considers jazz to be highbrow, esteemed, respectable, etc. The challenge that jazz faces in 2023 isn't that it's not prestigious enough, it's that it isn't popular with young people. (As opposed to hip hop, which is incredibly popular but has only recently started to be considered "prestigious".) So the "savior" of jazz is going to be whatever jazz musician(s) are most popular with younger listeners. And on that metric, Laufey easily beats Samara Joy. (Then again, I agree that Laufey's music is mid-century pop rather than jazz) Edit: Thundercat might be a better example of a musician who is decently popular with young people while also being deep in the jazz scene, except that his biggest songs are obviously his funk-R&B songs rather than his jazzier instrumentals
@@nolaffinmatter Thank you. It's clear a lot of people are trying to answer the question of who the is or is not the savior of jazz, without any idea what it is jazz needs saving from.
Your thoughts on jazz not being a space for women are something I've been trying to put into words for a while. I've been so interested in jazz (my school has a super amazing jazz program) but I feel like it's near impossible for me to participate in it, when there are boys already involved who can play just as well as me. Also, what you said about women being "an accessory" to men in jazz is so true, to the point that there was a teacher at my school who told the "jazz boys" to not bring their girlfriends into the band room because the girls make them seem "less professional." Thank you for saying it like it is on a topic I know so many girls and women (myself included) are wary to speak out on.
hi there! i’m so glad that that part of the video resonated with you. i’m also so sorry to hear that this is the environment that your teacher is choosing to cultivate. it’s a terrible message your teacher is sending. i think more of us are starting to question those dated ways of thinking and create spaces for us when historically there wasn’t!
It's two different issues. I would assume the "girlfriends" in questions aren't there to jam and practice, so it would be less professional for them to participate.
The jazz scene in the past was a very hostile, misogynistic environment. There's a recorded interview with Stan Getz out there where he straight up says "Jazz is a man's game."
@@chizhang2765 I would make a Yoko joke, but the assumption is they're not even there to participate, just for the guy to show off to which is a terrible part of the culture of young jazz musicians. Comes off as very egotistical and shows you're not participating for the music, but for the accolades. These are the types of people who vibes on others.
I think also an interesting thing to note is that for a long time women in jazz were mostly vocalist and handful of pianists. Although now things are changing for the better especially in NYC from what I've seen, but even in the New York scene it's not very common to see a women drummers. There's such a weird toxic masculinity around what instruments women are allowed to play, and a lot of the standard jazz instruments are gendered to be masculine.
yes! i have some thoughts around that too. in short (and only a part of the story) much of music education has been gatekept in the past. women didn’t have access to music literacy and singing was the most accessible form of music-making. interestingly, churches were a place where women cultivated their music education it is very strange how gender is assigned to instruments too. i’m really curious and would really like to understand why that it since it feels so arbitrary!
@@mitamu Absolutely. I honestly think the gendering of instruments is just loud/big = masculine. Which is truly just caveman brain thinking. Lastly, I think there's horn player/anti-vocalist elitism. A lot of instrumental jazz musicians look down on vocalists, and a lot of it I believe comes down to your second point of B*tch, but also I do think as with Laufey comes from the fact that vocalist often are inspired not by the black tradition of the music but from the more accessible, white-washed mid-century pop. Horn players and rhythm section can't find idols to follow in mid-century pop, as their roles are so minimized in that form of music. So, I think it's a phenomena that is rather nuanced.
I was actually just reading and thinking about the gender imbalances in instruments yesterday, because I was talking to my parents and my sister and we realized that our parents pushed all 3 of us into different instruments from what we first wanted. My brother wanted to play flute, and they pushed him to trombone, and my sister wanted to play drums and they pushed her to flute. It wasn’t out of them feeling it was wrong to play the other instrument, but because they thought they’d be made fun of for playing the other instrument. Both eventually ended up switching to what they wanted and then later quit band and stopped playing altogether. For me, I don’t think it was a gender thing. I wanted an alto sax and my parents made me choose the trumpet. My mom says it was because they couldn’t afford a sax.
This whole “she can’t be the savior because she’s white” thing is a bit tired in my opinion. She isn’t jazz’s savior but that has nothing to do with the fact that she’s white. I think that’s just too much focus on optics for optics sake.
It's not fully about her being white. Laufey is Chinese also(mom). And she's not the savior of Jazz but... What she is a person that has embrace music for music-sake by blending/taking "cues" from Jazz and other musical forms and develop a style that she can represent for herself to share to the world. And music is just that... A way to share feeling, thoughts, and etc to anyone that is willing to listen. The reality is about Jazz not only being an genre but about a CULTURE. People don't like when people or in this case the fans, overlook(lack of knowledge also) the culture that represent Jazz or any other music genre. There need to be a basic understanding that music, in some forms, does and will always represent CULTURE/History. Hopefully Laufey will do more focusing of the "culture" of Jazz. This can help or at least make some of her fans to spend time listening to Jazz from cultural mindset. For me music in general showcase culture and the love of music in general. Laufey is wonderful for what is doing for HER musical taste. She is helping but she can do more. After all, she is young and has her whole life to spend on growing her love for music, regardless of the genre. ❤💯
@@MA-rk2om I don’t see why there’s anything wrong with the whole La La Land thing. I’ve heard people try to explain why it’s wrong but I simply don’t agree. Maybe you can do a good job?
I agree, ( I'm black/ male) and while I do believe that the "savior" epithet is taking it too far ( just look at any of her youtube or tiktok comment sections), her race or background really has nothing to do with the matter. I'm not denying that the savior complex isn't true for some however. For me it's moreso the new listeners thinking the genre needs saving or what she's doing is somehow revolutionary, its fine just how it is.
Yeah the vibe here is coming off as like an amateur college humanities essay that is pretty much only deriving arguments from race and gender. Not a lot being said outside of commentary on that. What she's saying is right, but not always for the right reasons. A lot of this is just not supported by theory or concepts, just claiming things are the way they are because race and gender and personal experience. The whole thing about her not being the savior because she is white is A) erasing her intersectional identity (mixed race people exist) and B) just kinda racist in its own way as well. It comes off like a person being like "this taco isn't authentic because it was made by a white person" meanwhile literally talking about roy choi.
Her music is a jazz tangent, like Jobim and so many other commercially produced artists. And, like Jobim, she's one collaboration away from entering the community. The most important take away is that this debate is an uninteresting one. The big picture is that she's sparked conversation and interest in "jazz" for a new generation. How insecure is our community that we have to fight over what outsiders label our music, to the point of ostracizing listeners ready to embrace it
Outsiders only Label Laufey as jazz so that they can feel sophisticated for the most part. As Patrick Bartley would say, why do outsiders NEED Laufey to be jazz? Think about that for a minute. Genuinely the only reason I can think of is they are following the pack and don't know better, or because people who don't listen to jazz have this idea of jazz as being classy and sophisticated and makes you unique and special to be a part of. I think it's much more likely they want to say they're a part of that than they want to go to a jazz club and actually be a part of it. I think if you're seriously arguing this, you didn't bother listening to anything in this video or the Adam Neely one. People calling Laufey jazz detracts greatly from the actual jazz community that she herself declares is dead. Well of course you'd think something is dead if you've never participated in it and went out of your way to do so. Imagine Laufey making older jazz rap beats in the 90s style like Q-Tip or Dilla and calling her the savior of rap simply because her style is a little older and she doesn't listen to modern rap? Absurd right? Especially to be calling a white person this is just....wow.
@@fritzjackson4336 what? how is she detracting "greatly"? by getting more people interested in it? by not putting enough swing in her rhythm section? absolutely missing the forest for the trees when you have young people lined up for music that, isn't just referencing jazz vocabulary, but actively using it and you get hung up on stupid things like whether or not she's fully "jazz" or not. and i'm extremely curious how you are quantifying what "detracts greatly from the actual jazz community" and how random articles saying she's a savior has done that. just enjoy the music, or dont
@@fritzjackson4336 I specifically called her music a "jazz tangent." See above. And "outsiders" call her music "jazz" because, on the surface, it sounds like jazz. Its really that simple.
@@circles79 Meh. Not buying it. That's very much a forced conversation, and quite different than the examples you gave. The topic of conversation is "is this jazz"? No one even agrees where she fits, not to mention she's apparently been outright rejected by the jazz community. The hype will die down, and jazz will continue to thrive under the mainstream radar without a second thought of Laufey. With the examples of VI and Elvis, they were a part of the music, there's no question about that. If you want to argue that they were being heavily promoted as the face of the music at the time, sure, but history today remembers VI as the dude from the Ninja Turtles movie, and talks about Elvis for other reasons, but not for "inventing rock and roll." You might as well be saying Phil Woods was the face of hard bop... Anyway, forcing important conversations on topics like "is Laufey jazz" diminishes the importance of those conversations. Lets not do that.
I agree with your conclusion but your "evidence" is weak at best. Someone not being black isn't a way to validate your argument that they aren't jazz or the savior of jazz. I watched Adam Neely's video and his evidence is a bit better presented but falls on the same assertion. Nonblack = not able to hold the title. Laufey isn't jazz by my definition because her music is pop. it is made for the sake of being as popular as possible within its own genre. It's jazz-pop to me, because it still has jazz elements. What "jazz elements" are is blurry and subjective. No solid argument can be made for the line of what is jazz and what isn't without excluding a lot of jazz musicians and including a lot of non-jazz musicians. Either accept that music like this can't be put in a neat little box, or face the fact that this discussion is pointless, entirely subjective, and demeaning to a ton of people. I understand that your video was more about her being called the savior of jazz and why she shouldn't be, but you still didn't really give any good arguments apart from "shes not black, therefore it would be whitewashing to say she is lifting jazz out of a 5 foot grave." which in a way is true but why? because jazz originated in black american culture? Rock also originated in black american and european culture yet the biggest figures of it are all white guys and no one has an issue with it. I do not wish to be rude or anything while saying this, but this video (and Adam's) are pretty weak, even as a regular viewer of his content and a second-time viewer of yours. you both have done great work on other videos, but these aren't really built on any foundation, regardless of who agrees with the conclusion or not.
While Adam mentioned race for historical context (good), I don’t think his argument was race-centric at all. His two main arguments were 1) based on musical style, Laufey is drawing more from 1950s pop and musical theater than from straightforward jazz, and 2) based on community, Laufey isn’t communicating or collaborating with other jazz musicians. DOMi & JD Beck are young white musicians, but they easily pass both of these tests. Edit: I will add that I’m similarly iffy on the “we shouldn’t call Laufey the savior of jazz because she’s white”. On one hand there is a long history of white artists intentionally or unintentionally stealing the spotlight from black musicians, simply because the majority of Americans were more comfortable with someone who looked like them. On the other hand, it is entirely possible that the musician who is doing the best job introducing jazz to a new generation could be white. If it’s true, it’s true. (Although it’s not Laufey, for the reasons stated above.) Edit 2: And for what it’s worth, I think the gender-related point - jazz instrumentalists are mainly men, which can make it difficult for women to feel comfortable at jam sessions - is entirely reasonable. No real dissent from me there.
I think almost all forms of gatekeeping are dumb, especially when utilizing immutable characteristics like race/ethnicity as a weapon to gatekeep. Jazz (and every other form of music) grows through inspiration and sharing. When culture/music is so ardently gatekept, the gatekeepers are only doing damage to their traditions by pushing away those who might learn to appreciate and grow/propagate said traditions. People should not need to belong to X race, Y Class, or Z ethnicity to enjoy and build upon tradition that inspires them. Sharing culture should be celebrated! In regards to Laufey, I think nit-picking what historical genre her music belongs to is kind of silly. In the end, all of these musical categories are man-made and only exist because we get some utility out of them. The more time one spends dissecting her music to argue over what genre it should belong to, the more it feels like gatekeeping. I reckon people should not worry so much what mainstream articles say about the categorization of Laufey's music, and just enjoy her music for what it is.
As nice and wholesome that is I don't think it's honestly realistic or fair to say that about the different communities that decide to gatekeep thier music. Most if not all musical genres are tied to an identity that represents the group of people preforming it and that group of people have given it meaning and value which is called culture. To just let outsiders walk in and take aspects or even worst completely change the original culture would just be baffling and disrespectful, especially when they don't understand it. Yes it's true that growth in a genre (or anything really) won't happen until it's boundaries are pushed. But it's important to remember that the "rules" or general understanding in particular culture are there for reason and most of the time it's because that's wat shapes the genre identity. Like imagine a rock band claiming to be a baroque string quartet but that only string instruments are the bass and the guitar 😐. Also I'd like to add that genre is just a general idea, an artist doesn't have to adhere to it but if an artist DOES claim a genre that it's only fair to critique their music for not having any major elements of what their music is supposed to be based on.
@@KOOLBOYSC1I think time plays a role. As in a century of time is beyond fair game for a genre to have assimilated, evolved, permeated etc. 10 years max is probably the norm, if that. Naturally, a musical subculture that defines (to whatever degree) a community's identity will be more charged and will necessarily "gate keep" to allow that community to build it's identity. I'm all for that type of gate keeping to stave off cynical or clueless comidification or opportunistic co-opting. To allow the art to organically grow based on its original intent and influence And even that will fail to be homogeneous to some degree. But at a certain point the SUCCESS of that subculture and its art will surpass its ability to gatekeep or contain it. It's no longer an infant that requires (or will tolerate) protecting and nurturing by the small community that birthed it. It's out in the world (all growns up!) And that's just how art and culture goes in a multicultural environment. It's a good thing.
I think by "saving jazz" a lot of these commenters mean "making jazz mainstream and 'accessible' (to white people and those outside the jazz community) again, like it used to be". Unfortunately, for many of us, that time period is not considered quite so golden. It's Lala Land all over again. Save jazz from the black people and the music heads who don't use it right
When laufey sits down to write a song, is she really asking the question, is it jazz, am I saving jazz, what genre of music should it fit neatly into? For anyone to do that would be stifle their own creativity. Given the wealth of musical knowledge we now have, an artist can incorporate anything they want and be inspired from whatever genre, whether classical, jazz, Latin, to accomplish the feelings and emotions they want to achieve. And that's the difference, Laufey's songs do touch a lot of people, while a lot of jazz, jazz clubs, jazz jams, make people, me included, feel nothing at all, except to admire the skills at playing the instruments but nothing beyond that. There is no need to over analyse, just ask, am I enjoying this?
Thank you for this video. Maybe I can provide some old fart perspective 😃. As a child in the 70s I saw the older people feel the brunt of their creativity being appropriated with whites making millions and the black’s being poorer for it. From swing to early jazz to blues to rock and roll which has its basis in the blues and so forth. That can generate a lot of resentment in a community where a group’s creativity is constantly marginalized. I’m happy to see that the zoomers are much more open and accepting so in this light I think we can discuss jazz from my point of view (as an old fart). For me, I keep things simple. Does it make my head bob, and does the artist improvise. Laufey does the first but not the second. I like her music as it makes my head bob, but she’s not improvising within the verses. For a good example of what I mean, listen to some Carmen McRae. Improvising within the verse comes from the old style black gospel tradition. Which is why singers like Aretha sound like they do. This isn’t some awful thing as there are excellent jazz singers out there, Samara Joy as one of the excellent young singers for example. Anyway music is music. Enjoy it and celebrate the artist creating it.
Thanks. Great insights presented very articulately (articulatetly? :) ). I do wonder how comfortable Laufey is with being "the saviour of jazz"? I'm guessing this was not her goal when she set out and she was just making music in a style she liked and meant something to her.
same thoughts like I’m aware about her sentiments about jazz but the media portrayal of her being “the savior of jazz” is i think beyond her… unless she dismisses it or smthn
I'm convinced that Laufey will change the music industry in the future, but I don't know if her career will move to other genres. In terms of her mid-century pop, I'm sure she want to do something different. In the Zach podcast, she really inspired her career like Taylor Swift did by changing her career from country pop star to pop star in my opinion.
just out of curiosity, was there ever a discussion like this when Norah Jones was very popular around the time she won the best album grammy? whether she is the “saviour of jazz” etc? was jazz dying back then as well?
That’s a really good question. Just off the top of my head- but if memory serves me Norah wasn’t marketed at Blue Note records “jazz” she was adult contemporary/ easy listening played in Starbucks. For Norah I think her timing was everything. She has a unique story to begin with. From her very famous father to the moment she broke the mainstream. Her song Don’t Know Why came out during a very introspective moment in the US grieving 9/11. It was very soothing music. There are theories about that post 9/11 moment perfect for her “jazzy” Starbucks songs. But I have no memory of Blue Note mark in ting her as a “jazz savior” This sounds more like Ryan Gosling in La La Land than Norah
Norah Jones was a huge coup for Blue Note records after a period of “Jazz is dead” sentiment following the neoclassical wave of treating jazz like classical music. I wouldn’t be surprised if she was absolutely anointed jazz’s savior or something else like that. I wonder if a veteran jazz journalist like Nate Chinen would be willing to speak to this
Great video, also props to Adam Neely for recognising that there was something missing from his recent video and adding your content to his channel. Initially I was hesitant to even watch this content because most likely, this discussion of “is Laufey jazz” only exists because she was placed in this category by an algorithm. The unfortunate thing is that I cannot easily come up with an alternate genre definition for her work. When I hear her songs I think that she’s perfectly reflecting an old timey romanticism of the same vibe as I dunno, a love song written by Cole Porter or the like. Then there’s also a bit of a bossa nova component. Both referenced in a way that point back to periods in time where white American musicians were very successful with this specific type of whitewashing of both black American and South American music. So: I’m hearing a type of mid 1900s mainstream pop. Which is only tied to jazz in the most marginal way. Ima say: Laufey is great at embodying old timey kitsch, and I assume she’s also very aware of the cultural histories of these styles. Would she even want to get into more “jazz” based musical circles at this point in her life? Probably not, or not yet. Adam Neely pointing the finger at Laufey and telling her to go to a jam session seems completely besides the point. The main question is not about Laufey, but about jazz as a whole - why do people not understand jazz for what it is. And then drag a young female musician into the discourse who really doesn’t need to be involved. Why is jazz invisible to the algorithms that now govern our culture, and what can we learn from this question. The answer has something to do with capitalism and colonialism of course but who cares I need to stop ranting now. Thanks bye! ❤️
You are taking the delulu trend to a whole new level. Never in the past 5 years of my existence have I heard a more conceited delusional monologue like the one in this video. I'm amazed by how touched I am on an emotional level. Perhaps because I value transparency, genuinity and truth so much.
Honestly, with jam sessions I think in general it's a very uninviting space. Not to discount certain prejudices women can exclusively face in that environment, but every jam session I've been to has been a terrible experience. As a Jazz musician in Toronto in 4th year of humber, the city is full of Jazz musicians, between York, U of T and Humber as well as the professors and alumni. However, being in such an educational space invites so much competition. The last time I went to a jam session, I went up to play and so did this other alto player I had never seen before. We played and all solo'd but when it came to his solo, he clearly struggled. He was clearly new and trying to figure things out, but instead of encouraging, the tenor saxophonist (Who is very big in the Jazz scene known throughout the world), started playing over him during his solo. The tenor player then passed the solo on to the drummer to basically shut him up. After the tune finished, the female bass player loudly recommended towards the bassist we play something simple like a blues. So, we ended up playing a Bb blues, and I noticed everyone in the band ignored this player and didn't allow him to solo. I find the idea that you should just practice to backing tracks for 4000 hours before ever going to a jam, a very gatekeeping viewpoint. Which is another reason many people find it too daunting of a music to start playing. As well as the media that has come out that has either directly or indirectly supported emotional (and sometimes physical) abuse to the people who can't play jazz very well in order to "encourage" them. I.e. Whiplash, and general stories told through the community about the jazz greats being abused before "getting good," At the end of the night I was told I was good and even received a random follow on instagram from the tenor player and a DM saying that I played really well. But I would still not go back. Sure, I ended up getting positive feedback because I'm a professional player, which is great, but what happens when I have an off night and can't play as well? or a tune I don't know that I then have to ear? Most importantly, what happens to the inexperienced kid who just wanted to have fun? Will he ever pursue the music? Will he ever pursue a musical education? So, to laufey's credit, I understand her not wanting to go to a Jazz jam. What happens when she goes, and has to scat over giant steps and can't do it well. Will the Jazz community actually be inviting when she gets there? I think they would be, but only because she could call them for a gig. Someone else with the same level of talent might be ridiculed.
I wonder why Jon batiste, thundercat were never called “savior of jazz” when they’re nearer to the genre. Also there’s something weird about saying jazz is unapproachable but laufey is.. jazz has always been very full and complex why water it down?
Thundercat gets hate for being "funk" and Jon gets crap for having vocals - and both get the same end of the stick of crusty cats complaining new jazz isn't a 1:1 of Miles or Coltrane.
I love how you clearly convey your message and arguments without attacking the artist. espetially at the end part of the video where you say there is space to grow, this is how every discussion video should be.
Jazz is a musical language. With the option of adding 9, 11 and 13 to the chords a very interesting one. It is there to be spoken by who ever likes to do so, anywhere, in whatever context and with or without company. Oh, try & guess - in what category is Laufey a Grammy Nominee ? - : "Best Traditional Pop Vocal Album"
Heya just came across your video, really well made! I was thinking about a lot of things you mentioned in this vid after I watched the Neely video as well. You should do more of this style of content vid essay stuff about music - the format suits you!
I saw her live...she is great❤❤❤...she herself does not label as a jazz musician...she said, she loves classical music, jazz and pop...and loves to combine all three...I heard many different influences in her music
The fact that she’s not a progressive jazz singer but is so popular is and indication that not as many people are looking for jazz. There are more progressive singers in r and b etc, and more complex instrumental expression to be explored with electronic effects etc. that are allowed in other genres, so the traditional tools of jazz are limiting now.
This video was super informative. I think that the history and information can be greatly used at a broader level compared to just Laufey. As someone who loves listening to Laufey, I felt like this video and Adam Neelys video are both painting Laufey as someone who "doesn't understand the culture" or what jazz is about. But in reality, she greatly understands jazz and its culture (as shown in many interviews). Correct me if I have misinterpreted parts of this video
hey! thanks for your comment and glad this video was able to provide some insight. i think a big part of jazz is being able to interact with the musicians within the community. based off of some of her interviews, i think adam and i found that the way she describes jazz is a bit far removed from what the community is. she can be college-educated but that’s different than engaging with the people that actively play the music.
I like her music, but the attitude that she has of “saving jazz” rubbed me the wrong way bc many of my gen z friends are jazz musicians! What do you mean you’re bringing it to this generation?
@@Billie12208 You not realizing the space you're in with your young peers being an outlier for young culture is kinda cute. The masses aren't listening to jazz, young or old.
I like Laufey, me and my daughter covered falling behind on my TH-cam…. But Samara Joy won awards and no one mentions her in this space at all, and she sings traditional Jazz… but not call her a savior. I hope Laufey fans listen to and support other artists in the space. I love Jazz. And Laufey’s music is Jazz to me, even if it’s more popular.
Your commentary is awesome and your video is really well made. I really would love to hear your takes on other music related discussions, kind of like Adam Neely.
Thank you for you lucid, thoughtful and awesome video. And unlike most of the complainers about Adam’s video, you took the time to communicate deep truths in a clear and inclusive manner.
Really interesting video! There's a complicated history but you managed to summarise it quite succinctly and explain where the gatekeeping originates from. I often wondered if it was just my own insecurities feeling left out of the loop but the gatekeeping is a real thing and thank you for addressing the issue of male dominated spaces. I've often been told to just attend Jam sessions and it's not that easy as a female.
yes! i also want to emphasize that gatekeeping was not solely because of the invention of bebop. anyone can play it and it was taught communally but that’s the key word. you had to want to learn and be part of the community. things got weird when the media started painting it in a weird light. thanks for watching and also commenting!
I am South American, from Peru, born in 1971. My 12 year old daughter, half Peruvian and British, has fell in love with Laufey, because of her talent. Perhaps, she has listened to my constant playing of Ella Fitzgerald when all my girls were in my tummy and afterwards. Regardless, I will teach my girls to appreciate all music.
I’m more of a pop fan who is somewhat curious about jazz and enjoys music that sounds “jazzy”. I feel like Laufey is in the singer/songwriter tradition in that she has a well defined, singular vision for her music but makes it with a sophistication and knowledge of music theory that isn’t present in most modern pop. Her songwriting and lyricism is incredibly sharp and she has a magnetic personality. That’s probably what makes her so famous. I say the music is “pop” defining pop as melody based music instead of rhythm based and also because it also “pops” in that it is very sharp, sweet, and controlled. Jazz might be more experimental and improvised but as I said before I’m more a visitor to jazz who doesn’t completely understand it yet.
From what I've heard from Laufey, she actually seems to have real chops and talent. Her ennunciation is the thing which seems most at odds with traditional jazz vocals and denuded of blues influence . That said, I think someone who doesn't have a feel for the blues singing blues inflected jazz probably feels much more appropriative than Laufey's approach. Maybe some folks migrate from listening to her to other folks more at home in the tradition. I don't think there is anything wrong with folks liking her as a one off so long as her approach doesn't set the standard for what is expected for new jazz artists (and in particular recording artists).
Just found your channel from watching you sing Shiki No Uta, and now I'm loving these topics! I love jazz, but have never talked about it with anyone since it's mostly absent in my culture (Brazilian).
I like how its degrading that Laufey is being called the savior of Jazz in some circles, but the post hipsters who want to try and label it a black folk music and want to defend it do not seem to be black either lol
Laufey’s music isn’t jazz. Its more in line with American modern romantic. It’s not her fault people describe her genre is jazz. This piece of navel gazing has more in common with pseudo academic scholarship.
@@mikeevans6344 you must be new here. American romantic is just a description. Not yet another genre. Is this jazz? Hell no! If one must have a label you might consider American ballads or even pop! But jazz? LOL! Gen Z etc has so little idea of jazz.
the differences is cultural/generational differences, Imo. older gens obviously arent consuming their content thru social medias the way gen z are. So a lot of older gens are getting mad that tiktok style content and quick to consume media is being coined as jazz. Anyways that aside, Mitamu, i think your last point raises so much more points and has a lot more nuance than Adam neelys original video. I love Laufeys music and im even going to her concert, but for her to join jam sessions, the way Adam neely pointed it out to her just sounded passive aggressive. Im glad u brought up the points like how a lot of jam sessions are very male dominated. I personally coin Laufey as jazz-pop or i guess the "mid century pop" terminology. But for the ppl who truly want to see Laufey interact with jazz spaces and its culture, we definitely need to fix these spaces and make it more inclusive for women and other marginalized groups
hi! just want to point out that i didn't call laufey white. that was directed towards the press that has been pushing this narrative of saviorism which is rooted in a history of erasure (aka white-washed media). hope that clears that up
I can't wait to see Samara Joy next month😉 thanks for your service.. defending jazz is a duty. I'm always explaining this to the people who don't know what it is and claim that they don't like it. Diana Krall had to go commercial to be heard as a jazz pianist. It's sad. ❤
so glad I finally had time to watch this video. i did not know who tf laufey was before you started posting this. you touched on such crucial points far beyond the issues with influencer artists and how often the greater music industry needs to be more mindful and respectful in regards to history, legacy and how to move forward more mindfully. so many great insights and i love the edit
Thanks for your insights. I have been creating music literally since before I can remember (my mother said I vocalized melodies from the radio before I started talking). The older I get, the more I realize that my music is about so much more than my own creativity and at least equally about what I have absorbed from those before me. My fascination upon discovering a Cannonball Adderly/Nancy Wilson Lp was among many treats I was lucky and open enough to enjoy as a poor white boy going through the records box at my village library. I can appreciate jazz today (I played jazz Tbone until I was 18), but I found it a bit too toxic when I was figuring out my musical path in the late 70s and early 80s. Thanks again.
I think in order to have a proper discussion of whether it's jazz or not, there is an important distinction to be made between playing jazz as in - a bunch of musicians get up on stage and say "let's play Cherokee" or whatever, and the concept of having a repertoire of jazz standards, the kinds of harmony we associate with this type of music (pre-bebop at least) and so on. Now, we can argue about the term "jazz standard" and is an Irving Berlin song or a Cole Porter song in itself jazz. But is Laufey, as a young singer songwriter following more in their steps or the steps of John Coltrane or Charlie Parker? The answer seems quite obvious to me, so why is everybody focusing on people like Miles Davis or Dizzy Gillespie? That's just not what she does. It's a completely different kind of music. It's like, if you compare Sinatra to Miles Davis. Not much in common even in the same time period. As for Laufey, there's obviously nothing wrong with writing songs in that style, that's very clearly what she likes, the Gershwin or Jobim type of tune, the problem arrives when that gets automatically classified as jazz. And both Laufey, and the media get it wrong because of the confusing terminology and lack of consensus on these topics. Is it really a big deal though, is the public going to forget what jazz is about because of her? Probably not. (Although the Tiktok community might be hopeless).
I appreciate your input on this, I haven't ever listened to Laufey but after I watched your video I did so and, I think she is a crooner, which is a cool thing in its own right also wanted to add a thought on jazz spaces and why they are so unwelcoming, growing up I read a lot of jazz biographies and jazz autobiographies and one thing that I understood through reading those books was that the jam sessions were really born for competition, they initially were called cutting sessions where one person would walk away as the best player of that night, it was a space to go head to head with your contemporaries with a jury of your contemporaries. So of course when you have a space that is highly competitive and has an unspoken and unarticulated and undecipherable hierarchy , trying to come into that with a mindset of " I'm gonna learn and just network" really just wasn't the vibe of the space and wouldn't be respected. As for jam sessions today, idk but that is their origin so I would imagine that in some circles that energy and intention still persists.
Well this has been a hot topic. Even thought I don’t like the term, the real gatekeepers were those who didn’t allow the music in mainstream settings (TV) and the post-2000 musician who is only interested in his peers music while ignoring everything else. As for whether Laufey is jazz, there’s other issues that are more important.
Jimi Hendrix did rock and roll. Norah Jones did Jazz. Eminem did Rap. Look at how many Asians become elite classical musicians. You dont need to be a certain skin color to have others label you a great. Everyone has their opinions.
Rock and roll is African American and Jimi Hendrix is African American lol so this proves nothing. The debate is more about cultural ownership of musical art as well asAfrican Americans are tired of being disrespected and bullied out of the genres that they have created by the white majority in the United States. It’s not about musical talent that people are upset about, but the apathy towards the cultural nuances of participating in African American genres of music that were made during such arduous times (slavery, Jim Crow, etc.). It is similar to being culturally aware of being a non Indigenous person entering a Powwow.
I feel bad for Laufey she just wants to make music and she's being ostracized by this community. I think she'll be chased away from ever going near jazz, plus she also has to be of a specific color so I'm sure she'll sure as heck stay away from it.
I couldn't thank you enough for making this video contextualizing the history of jazz, the forms of gatekeeping from protecting identity & artistry to the "jazz is for the boiiiis". This summarized much of my thoughts around this and more. I have since bought an out of print "to be or not to bop" book and am looking forward to my collection of music history books!
Laufey is making music, and you guys complain about media and artists. This is why Laufey is so successful because she focus on music not other things. It's totally distasteful and unclassy to backstab other artists.
This was an incredible video, Mitamu! Loved the way you tell this stories and your point of view, fantastic editing as well. I'd love to see more of this
i play in community bands . i bring jazz to the rehearsals for concert band players who haven't heard it , i take the big songs that are like Mingus miles all stuff that we can bring to a new audience . we have been traveling this road for 10 years laufey will give us a kick along and we will take some clues from her . good discussion
The jam sessions being a “man’s” space is weird to me. The only jam session I’ve ever seen was at a bar in Texas and it was about half and half women and men. Now, it never had singing. And it included a ton of students in the local school jazz program, so I guess it’s just different. Maybe a bar in Texas is just less sexist than a jazz session in a northern big city.
Both my daughters are aspiring jazz vocalists. As a professional musician, no way would I want them at any jam session. You bring up a great point here.
My 13 year old daughter is a huge Laufey fan, and is branching out and learning about the Jazz artists who influenced her. I see the emergence of Laufey's popularity more of a positive than a negative. She doesn't see Laufey as a "saviour" of jazz, that's a ridiculous assertion by the media.
I wouldn’t say that laufey is “reviving jazz” essentially but I love how she incorporates jazz inspiration into her music, I would definitely classify her as a jazz and orchestral pop musician than full on jazz since her pieces still have a modern like style to them. Laufey is more introducing a style of jazz and bossa nova to a new generation which will encourage younger listeners to research and appreciate jazz for what it really is, since jazz for so many years has been seen as un-accessible to younger listeners because of how white people have influenced and interpreted jazz, a music originally from black artists
Thank you for this, came for Adam and stayed for you. When i heard you say Jazz is for the boyz early on i knew this was going to be amazing. I think another part of this conversation is her upbringing in Iceland a beautiful but incredibly small, homogeneous and remote society. Anyway thabk you again
I really enjoy her music and I also listen to a lot of jazz, however I don’t feel like her music fits alongside count Basie and such, more so I feel like she’s writing standards in their most derivative form, I’m really into music preservation and there have been projects to reconstruct these jazz standards with the original orchestrations heard on broadway, her music fits right along with it. It’s up to musicians to take those lead sheets and make them into jazz
i hope people will stop saying "jazz needs saving or jazz is dying" ...Jazz is actually the reason why we have Laufey and so many artists like Amy, Lady Gaga, Samara and also Cody Fry.. Jacob Collier, Sara Bareilles!.... Jazz just continues to evolve from the beloved standards, contemporaries and indies and i hope our generation continues to flourish in this love for music😍
I want to thank you for your words, particularly your insights on the experience of women with regards to this music that we love. You gained a new follower today. I'm constantly having to remind myself that my experience in these areas will never be the same as it is for women or non white people, so these kinds of videos are infinitely appreciated ✌
incredible that neither this video or adam neelys video say anything about the generally inaccessible cost of elite music conservatories. If anything is gatekeeping people from jazz it’s $50,000 yearly tuitions
we can definitely talk about that in a separate video and the gatekeeping of music education in general. unfortunately, we can’t cover everything at a single time but doesn’t mean it’s not worth addressing. thanks!
Those costs are outrageous, but I would argue that a lot of Jazz artists of the 20th century didn't have that sort of formal education. As a self taught musician, there are enough resources on this very platform that can get you there!
@@adampitt9311 i agree with you! Most of the 20th century jazz performers seemed to be educated in non academic environments. This laufey discourse is about professional and performing jazz (or pop) musicians in the 21st century - most of which seem to have(need) education from elite institutions i’m self learning right now and there are definitely enough resources lol maybe too many
Dude I’ve been learning jazz for about five years now, and never had to go to music college. There’s so much information available out there, for free. In my opinion,the most valuable thing that music college may give you is network, but if you really like jazz and you work hard you’ll find your way into the scene. Parker didn’t have to pay $50,000 in tuition to become one of the greatest musicians to have ever lived. If you really like this tradition, you’ll find your way in.
I don’t think that the jazz conservatories are the problem, considering the whole of upper education in America is that expensive and all that. It’s not jazz education it’s the educational system that’s the problem
Women aren’t welcome in jam sessions is such bull. Maybe back when Melba Winston was alive it was like this but idk if you’ve ever been to a jazz jam session but women are very much appreciated and respected
Good earnest and interesting post. It made me think and ponder questions that I had hitherto dismissed in the past, so thanks for raising important questions. Laufey is trying her best and I feel that sometimes her critics can be a little dogmatic in some respects. Her music evokes a jazz mood and in some regards, that should be enough. Jazz has always been about challenging expectations.
Her work,, as has been said, is not jazz but Mid-Century Modern. A kind of homogenized melding of jazz and pop. Easy to listen to because it’s highly predictable but it sounds sort of jazzlike As well, several renown jazz artists applied themselves Mid-Century Modern performances because, for example, they liked Cole Porter songs too!
As a Brazilian Gen Z, Laufey’s music sounds like Bossa Nova inspired pop to me, so much of those elements that makes my brain go like “ahhh some Tom Jobim influence moment going on here”. I wish people my age and younger or older would know the history and where where these amazing style comes from 🇧🇷🇧🇷. lucky I grew up listening to it 💃🏻
1:17 If Emmet ever gets hailed as the “Savior of Jazz”, would you have found it odd or peculiar? I agree that at the state of where Laufey is in her career, it would presumptuous to give her that title, but strictly restricting the right to reshape the music to a black american would a gate-keeping overstatement. Bill Evans, Marian McPartland, Benny Goodman, George Shearing, Chick Corea, Dave Brubeck are great example of that. Wouldn’t it be better ride on her mass appeal and actually turn her into whatever she’s claimed to be so that it would give a better exposure for everyone who’s deeply passionate into jazz?
I think the issue is less of race (but that still plays a part) and more about community. Emmet is thoroughly in the jazz ecosystem while laufey is a classical musician who plays jazz, she doesn’t play in the jazz community
I appreciate your explanations of A. how gatekeeping generally comes from a place of preservation of culture to whatever degree, and B. we can still make moves to change things as long as we understand the identities and histories of the cultures and make sure we do it tastefully. While I hate gatekeeping conversations, it is super reductive to assume it's because the kid in the sandbox doesn't want to share. There needs to be respect to the culture before someone decides to borrow or be revisionist about it.
I completely understand your perspective relating to the roots of jazz. Conservatism (or, yes, gatekeeping) is to be expected here. However, you must realize that on this internet and globalization era, tradition is a niche. And so, gatekeeping authentic African American jazz will inevitably turn it into traditional music. Jazz will turn into the local/traditional music of the USA just like the local/traditional Japanese music to the lay Japanese people. Take a look at kabuki. Do "ordinary" Japanese watch kabuki and understand kabuki lingos? Nope. Take a look at sumo. Many "ordinary" Japanese regularly follow sumo tournaments. But, most Japanese certainly don't. Also, for so many people outside the US & outside the jazz community, jazz means different things. To some, jazz is Chet Baker, Bill Evans, Joe Pass, Pat Metheny or even Frank Sinatra. Just like how classical music is only Beethoven and Mozart to some people. In reality, we certainly have Russians and Italians like Rachmaninoff & Scarlatti. (Yes, I intentionally didn't mention any African American jazz musician. I literally just listened to Art Farmer, Modern Jazz Quartet & Red Garland a few hours ago) I don't mean any harm and I do understand that this is a sensitive issue. It's certainly political. Everything's political since humans are political animals. Each one of us has our own beliefs, desires & principles. Hence, we're regularly practicing politics with one another. In conclusion, most people, especially outside the US, certainly don't understand the nuanced problems relating to Laufey. Obviously we always try to understand what's really going on in the US and what really is the problem. Trust me, with how vocal you guys in the US are on TH-cam and social media, it's hard for us not to pay attention. I'm just here to broaden the perspective and enrich the discourses. Jazz certainly have roots in African American people. The question is do all jazz belong to African American? Globalization still is a complex sociocultural problem.
hi there and thanks for your comment. i want to bring back the quote by amiri baraka mentioned: jazz is “the changing same”. it is constantly evolving with it’s times and environment but still rooted in the traditions of the blues and black experiences. as many jazz legends, mentors, and peers have explained it to me. everyone is welcomed to play jazz and be part of it’s community. but, it’s like entering another person’s home. you have to have respect towards your host. even though, jazz is enjoyed and played by so many different musicians of different backgrounds (including myself), there is a reverence jazz musicians have towards the ones that fought so hard to have it in the first place. we understand that the music is black american music and we are welcomed. we can add our own voices (like chet baker, bill evans, etc.) to it but we never forget who’s house we’re in. to use one of your examples: much like if i were to participate in, say, traditional japanese music. i’d be happy to be part of it and add my voice but would be conscious to never disrespect the culture i am participating in.
Look Laufey is no fake; she has a nice voice, she knows how to use it, she plays several instruments very well and she deserves her success. Is she a jazz player? Most emphatically not. Is she a jazz singer? Mh, not really. She is a pop singer who can compose and sing a nice bossa nova and sing some easy standards, not unlikey many female pop singers before her. As a matter of fact I can quote at least ten pop singers of variuos ages and nationality who absorbed the jazz language way more than Laufey. But I'll quote only one who is islandic as Laufey: Bjork. Bjork actually started as a jazz singer when she was very young and even recorded an LP...
The only point that I would slightly disagree with you on in the video is about the whole black American art form. I am thoroughly against all skin colour identity politics being placed on music and art. People would identify me as a black person, but I do not use skin colour as an identity. That's just me. And that's my personal view. However, I do not think that it is healthy for us as musicians and music lovers to follow down that narrative of skin colour origin and ownership, so to speak, of a musical genre. If anything, it serves to divide music lovers more than it unites us. Yes, it is good for us to know what circumstances created the culture for a particular musical genre to be created, but apart from that no further value should be placed on skin colour.
hey! thanks for your comment. so just to be clear, everyone is allowed to participate and contribute to jazz. for example, i am a jazz musician and i am not black. many people that are non-black, such as chet baker and bill evans, contributed great things to jazz. something that my jazz mentors, elders, and contemporaries have taught me is to yes, be part of jazz, but understand that this music is part of black culture/experience. like any culture, we respect it. my point in this video is a criticism towards the press for creating narratives with savior complexes and often erasure of marginalized groups. laufey is great. how the press is writing about her is not doing anyone favors
@@mitamu I get you. I understand the context you're approaching it from, and I definitely agree with you that there has been a narrative of saviour complexes perpetuated by the media over the years. What my issue was, an it's really kind of a nitpick. Is that personally I would rather you say that Laufey a Non- American is being portrayed as a saviour of an American Art -form created by formerly enslaved Americans. This way the focus is more on the cultural heritage of the creators and not the skin colour of the creators. That being said, I absolutely love your content! Keep doing what you're doing. And you've earned yourself a life-long Subscriber!!!! 😇😇😇😇😇
Ultimately though, these genres of music are African American which has been tied with being black in the United States for nearly 400 years. Racial identity is intertwined with cultural identity in the United States because the foundations of this country was colonialism, enslaving people of African descent and taking lands of indigenous people. Whether you identify as black or not, this musical art has complex history and important elements that are deeply rooted in African American experiences during Jim Crow and being a couple decades right after emancipation. People of other cultures can definitely love jazz, but they ultimately are guests in this community, just like non Indigenous people are guests at a Powwow.
@@jacobschimp7939 I mean fundamentally I agree with you. Perspective is that as a Jamaican who others would identify as black I have no cultural claim to jazz music which is why I think that the categorization of African-American is more specific and less complicated than to color code the music especially seeing that no other musical outside of African and African-American music are color-coded
Absolutely love this, especially the discussion re: woman and jam sessions/the male-dominated jazz spaces! It was a discussion sorely lacking in my own video, so thank you.
One of the reasons why I highlighted Emmet's Place in particular is that he's good about being inclusive in ways that traditionally aren't super jazz (episode 60 pride episode, ex). There is still a lot of work to be done to create new spaces and expand existing spaces to accept more gender diversity, but there is progress.
That said, I realize the ambivalence towards me at the end of my Laufey video inviting her to jazz jams. I know how absurd that might feel and seem when the jazz community can be so toxic, and honestly, I don't blame her and others for saying "fuck jazz, stop the gatekeeping, I hate this culture." I get it.
Complicated. Do you mind if I share/signal boost this video?
hi adam! i'm so glad to hear you enjoyed this and also thank you for making your own video. it really inspired me to say my piece about this as well. very much agree that progress is being done. emmet's place being a great example of the shift in mindset. i would be honored if you shared this video. much love!
Adam Neely is right. When talking about music the most important thing is to virtue signal. He missed that opportunity in his video and, therefore, failed.
@@thomasdequincey5811I thought jazz started as vice signaling. Now it's virtuous?! That's fabulous!
how is jazz community toxic? i’m very curious because im fairly ignorant regarding the subject
There’s one thing that I think is glazed over in both of your videos: The skill barrier. There is enormous elitism around different echelons of skill within the community, and most vibing and gate keeping takes place along that axis. You are being judged in real time for your technical abilities, the depth of harmonic vocabulary, even your creative and aesthetic choices. (I’ve even seen Patrick Bartley vibed for his creative and aesthetic decisions to include Jpop and vgm in his playing)
They’re both great videos and it’s wonderful that we’re bringing the cultural issues to the forefront, but I feel like there’s an awkward truth here that threatens to undercut all of the cultural elements at play. If you can’t hang, you’re getting vibed. You are going to walk away from the bandstand with the feeling that you are not worthy. That’s the majority of the real gate keeping that has been going on for years and likely one of the largest reasons Laufey is calling Jazz a “gatekept” space. That’s not to discount what you’re saying. I’m just surprised that nobody is really talking about it.
As a black person who thoroughly enjoys jazz since birth, I actually thank Laufey. I believe that when they mean reviving jazz they mean in this generation which I'm strongly apart of. despite the race, I'm sure anyone of any culture is allowed to be made by anyone.. as long as people remember and keep in mind where it originates.
Btw it's Lay-vay not loy-vay I think
hi and thanks for commenting. laufey is great for bringing the genre to more listeners. that is explained well in adam’s video too. and i agree, it’s important to know where the music originates because like any culture, it’s important to give respect to it.
l opted for the more icelandic pronunciation of her name. she gives two pronunciation guides in her interview with elle
This is what open minded, appreciative ppl look like. That was nicely said.
@@nberriloyvay is the true icelandic pronounciation. layvay is saying it right
The likes of Nora Jones and Esperanza Spalding have at some point or the other in the past 20 years been called the saviour of jazz (even though Jones was more pop than jazz imho)I think the real problem here is always viewing EVERYTHING from the perspective of identity politics. There's too much of that kind of negativity going round in the world.
Laufey is clearly a throwback to the golden age of pop singers mingling with jazz but I don't hear any of the consistent elements of jazz in her music. Perhaps the fact that she sings songs that are slightly more harmonically complex makes her music sound "Jazzy", but her songs align far more with the showtunes of Broadway that also happen to overlap with much of jazz music. I think she is analogous to what Amy Winehouse did with classic soul music. She provided a kind of nostalgic recreation, which was very genuine and well crafted but was a very clear and intentional act.
Pop singers mingling with jazz? That's exactly backwards. First there were popular standards, and then black musicians and hipsters jazzed them up.
@@thescowlingschnauzerYou’re right, but I’m just referring to that time period when there was a convergence of the two styles.
@@thescowlingschnauzer hipsters don't play jazz. It's above them.
Exactly. The appeal is well crafted nostalgia and kitsch. The label jazz is slapped on because there is no other commonly used term for this sort of retro genre.
I enjoy that this whole mislabeling thing seems to be spawning a bunch of discussion of cultural history and present day culture, but that doesn’t need to happen on Laufey’s back, just let her make her kitschy tunes and move into a different discussion space.
The fact that some content creators are writing “is Laufey the savior of jazz” etc simply because she appears in this Spotify category is mind meltingly stupid
@@lizardmix There is always attempts to push Jazz into a cultural spotlight, but I think most forms of jazz just aren’t capable of being neatly packaged and presented as a mass music like pop or rock. That’s why artists like Laufey get backlash when they are labeled as “jazz” because they have become unwilling martyrs for the cause of bringing jazz any type of attention. I think it brings good and bad. “Any press is good press” certainly applied, and maybe Laufey introduces some people to enjoy music that is vaguely jazz. On the other hand, I don’t think she is a very good representation of the jazz genre, and like the video mentions she really isn’t a jazz artist in the strict sense of the term. 🤷🏼
I love this ‘mid-century pop’ term for Laufey… she is an incredible talent, writing beautiful songs - and is hugely popular… A jazzy musician - not a jazz musician!
And if through her, young people discover the jazz greats, then she may well be saving jazz!
She's absolutely a jazz musician. You just can't handle her not being 100% jazz. Jazz people are so cringe for this very reason. It's ironic since the expansion of jazz was hinged on it changing and evolving.
@@loadishstoneterms evolve
Goes with the midcentury living room furniture and the retro cocktails!
@@loadishstone
@@CharlesLaughlin ha yes! She so matches my sideboard and flying ducks!!
@@WaitingForTheHook Not being Jazz doesn't equate to not good. She writes good music, but there's nothing wrong with her music not being Jazz. I think you are the cringy one for thinking if someone says something is not Jazz they must be shitting on the music. I mean I can say her music is not Metal. That doesn't mean I'm saying she's shit artist. I think it's your own insecurity seeping out.
i think this video is very well put! i am both an avid laufey and jazz fan, and i think it is clear how some of her music takes inspiration from jazz (i think of Dreamer for example), but i totally agree that it’s extremely misleading to say she ONLY draws inspo from jazz, therefore solely making her a jazz musician. there’s absolutely elements of classical, pop, showtune, etc in her music. i think laufey is a beautiful mix of all of these, and there’s great overlap between them all.
the issue is that people see glimpses of jazz in laufey’s music, and instead of exploring more of the genre, they just stop at laufey and claim her as jazz, and this is simply due to ignorance, but that’s dangerous!
i hope some of these people pushing laufey as some new standard for jazz realize that not only are they discrediting the rich black roots and themes of jazz, but they’re actually totally disregarding laufey’s unique and personal sound.
well said!
I don’t really get this take honestly. Jazz has always taken inspiration from pop and classical. Did everyone forget that Gershwin created a whole songbook of what became jazz standards or something? Or that My Favorite Things, a pop song, is a jazz standard? Laufey is literally no different in that regard. Miles Davis in the 1980s literally just straight up covered a bunch of contemporary pop of the era in his live shows. Is that not jazz somehow?
Being trained classically doesn’t mean you aren’t jazz. I guess that means Nina Simone, Herbie Hancock, Hiromi Uehara, Keith Jarrett, and multitudes of others aren’t jazz anymore. Oops!
Is Allen Toussaint, one of the biggest popularizers and proponents of the New Orleans sound over the past 70 years, not jazz because he also loved to make R&B albums and wrote songs for pop artists? Laughable take.
This is actually the real reason jazz isn’t popular anymore. The “jazz culture” is a bunch of elitists that took over the genre in the 70s and 80s with regressive definitions (Wynton Marsalis as well as white dominated academia). No one wants to associate with jazz snobs.
My only issue with the criticism of Laufey is that maybe she just doesn't want to do straight jazz. Everyone telling her to immerse herself with other jazz musicians doesn't take any account about what she wants.
She is making the type of music she wants. Yes, it has jazz elements, but it's her own thing.
And maybe, just maybe that's all she wants to do is continue combining her love of musical theater and jazz into one.
100% agree. She has said in past interviews that she’s a huge Taylor Swift fan because of the way she tells stories through her songs. And so Laufey wanted to combine story telling in the kind of music style she grew up listening to (jazz/classical), but also, adding a modern twist to appeal to the new generation. Of course, she needs to have her own unique style to stand out and I think she did a great job at achieving that. Obviously if her style was just straight up jazz, she will not be as popular with the gen z crowd.
Also, since she enjoyed listening to jazz/classical as a child, she felt like an outsider because that wasn’t what other kids were listening to. So now through her music, she wants to inspire kids of today and send the message that if they want to listen to jazz or whatever music they like, that they shouldn’t feel ashamed, even if it’s not what other people are listening to these days.
I think you meant to say “her love of *classical music* and jazz into one. She’s never mentioned liking musical theatre.
@@RealContentHub She has done TikTok's doing Disney songs. Disney is basically musical theater.
@@thinkhector Oops sorry! My bad.
I strongly agree! What happened to jazz being inclusive lol?The fact that this question is even brought up is gatekeeping her from jazz. I agree with the creator of this video, as she states this question is uninteresting and it leads to uninteresting answers.
she's categorized as jazz singer to make it easier to recognize for larger audiences but i don't think she's just jazz but she had more pop sound in her album Typical of Me and has deep understanding of classical music. she's jazz/classic/pop all combined and making completely new genre for pop audiences. that's why people are discussing her i guess.
It feels wrong to call Laufey the savior of Jazz especially with artist like Samara Joy. Samara Joy who has won awards for her music and gives you that classic Jazz feeling while still being modern.
I like both Samara and Laufey but Samara was the first on stage with a jazz performance at the Grammys so she would seem to be the "reviver" of Jazz, at least closer to mainstream and for younger people.
It is clear thought why people would ignore Samara but love Laufey. It's not the first time but I hope it's the last.
(Samara is also one of two Jazz singers to win best new artist in all of history at the Grammys which is hard considering Jazz isn't even considered popular right now. If that doesn't say modern Jazz pioneer, I don't know what will)
yup.
@@Woodsarasthat is laughably naive and patently wrong, a savior of what, black people? Go back and watch the whole video again. You probably think Taylor Swift makes her own music. SMDH
I would also say that both of these women can only be seen as "saving" jazz if being at the top of the charts or lauded by white award shows was the goal in the first place. If that was never the goal, jazz never needed saving
@@colin-nekritz Nah, I think MichaelJamesCollins point is unironically correct. Sure Samara Joy won a Grammy, but jazz already has the kind of prestige that comes from winning awards. Basically everybody these days considers jazz to be highbrow, esteemed, respectable, etc. The challenge that jazz faces in 2023 isn't that it's not prestigious enough, it's that it isn't popular with young people. (As opposed to hip hop, which is incredibly popular but has only recently started to be considered "prestigious".) So the "savior" of jazz is going to be whatever jazz musician(s) are most popular with younger listeners. And on that metric, Laufey easily beats Samara Joy. (Then again, I agree that Laufey's music is mid-century pop rather than jazz)
Edit: Thundercat might be a better example of a musician who is decently popular with young people while also being deep in the jazz scene, except that his biggest songs are obviously his funk-R&B songs rather than his jazzier instrumentals
@@nolaffinmatter Thank you. It's clear a lot of people are trying to answer the question of who the is or is not the savior of jazz, without any idea what it is jazz needs saving from.
Your thoughts on jazz not being a space for women are something I've been trying to put into words for a while. I've been so interested in jazz (my school has a super amazing jazz program) but I feel like it's near impossible for me to participate in it, when there are boys already involved who can play just as well as me. Also, what you said about women being "an accessory" to men in jazz is so true, to the point that there was a teacher at my school who told the "jazz boys" to not bring their girlfriends into the band room because the girls make them seem "less professional." Thank you for saying it like it is on a topic I know so many girls and women (myself included) are wary to speak out on.
hi there! i’m so glad that that part of the video resonated with you. i’m also so sorry to hear that this is the environment that your teacher is choosing to cultivate. it’s a terrible message your teacher is sending. i think more of us are starting to question those dated ways of thinking and create spaces for us when historically there wasn’t!
It's two different issues. I would assume the "girlfriends" in questions aren't there to jam and practice, so it would be less professional for them to participate.
The jazz scene in the past was a very hostile, misogynistic environment. There's a recorded interview with Stan Getz out there where he straight up says "Jazz is a man's game."
@@chizhang2765 I would make a Yoko joke, but the assumption is they're not even there to participate, just for the guy to show off to which is a terrible part of the culture of young jazz musicians. Comes off as very egotistical and shows you're not participating for the music, but for the accolades. These are the types of people who vibes on others.
Yeah, you shouldn’t bring your girlfriend/boyfriend to practice if they’re not there to practice with you…
I think also an interesting thing to note is that for a long time women in jazz were mostly vocalist and handful of pianists. Although now things are changing for the better especially in NYC from what I've seen, but even in the New York scene it's not very common to see a women drummers. There's such a weird toxic masculinity around what instruments women are allowed to play, and a lot of the standard jazz instruments are gendered to be masculine.
yes! i have some thoughts around that too. in short (and only a part of the story) much of music education has been gatekept in the past. women didn’t have access to music literacy and singing was the most accessible form of music-making. interestingly, churches were a place where women cultivated their music education
it is very strange how gender is assigned to instruments too. i’m really curious and would really like to understand why that it since it feels so arbitrary!
@@mitamu Absolutely.
I honestly think the gendering of instruments is just loud/big = masculine. Which is truly just caveman brain thinking.
Lastly, I think there's horn player/anti-vocalist elitism. A lot of instrumental jazz musicians look down on vocalists, and a lot of it I believe comes down to your second point of B*tch, but also I do think as with Laufey comes from the fact that vocalist often are inspired not by the black tradition of the music but from the more accessible, white-washed mid-century pop. Horn players and rhythm section can't find idols to follow in mid-century pop, as their roles are so minimized in that form of music. So, I think it's a phenomena that is rather nuanced.
What??? If you're gonna write nonsense at least make it funny.
I was actually just reading and thinking about the gender imbalances in instruments yesterday, because I was talking to my parents and my sister and we realized that our parents pushed all 3 of us into different instruments from what we first wanted.
My brother wanted to play flute, and they pushed him to trombone, and my sister wanted to play drums and they pushed her to flute. It wasn’t out of them feeling it was wrong to play the other instrument, but because they thought they’d be made fun of for playing the other instrument. Both eventually ended up switching to what they wanted and then later quit band and stopped playing altogether.
For me, I don’t think it was a gender thing. I wanted an alto sax and my parents made me choose the trumpet. My mom says it was because they couldn’t afford a sax.
@@thomasdequincey5811 what's nonsensical about what I said?
This whole “she can’t be the savior because she’s white” thing is a bit tired in my opinion. She isn’t jazz’s savior but that has nothing to do with the fact that she’s white. I think that’s just too much focus on optics for optics sake.
It's not fully about her being white.
Laufey is Chinese also(mom). And she's not the savior of Jazz but...
What she is a person that has embrace music for music-sake by blending/taking "cues" from Jazz and other musical forms and develop a style that she can represent for herself to share to the world. And music is just that... A way to share feeling, thoughts, and etc to anyone that is willing to listen. The reality is about Jazz not only being an genre but about a CULTURE. People don't like when people or in this case the fans, overlook(lack of knowledge also) the culture that represent Jazz or any other music genre. There need to be a basic understanding that music, in some forms, does and will always represent CULTURE/History. Hopefully Laufey will do more focusing of the "culture" of Jazz. This can help or at least make some of her fans to spend time listening to Jazz from cultural mindset. For me music in general showcase culture and the love of music in general. Laufey is wonderful for what is doing for HER musical taste. She is helping but she can do more. After all, she is young and has her whole life to spend on growing her love for music, regardless of the genre. ❤💯
It feels very Ryan Glosling in La La Land, no? The white savior complex is real for a reason…
@@MA-rk2om I don’t see why there’s anything wrong with the whole La La Land thing. I’ve heard people try to explain why it’s wrong but I simply don’t agree. Maybe you can do a good job?
I agree, ( I'm black/ male) and while I do believe that the "savior" epithet is taking it too far ( just look at any of her youtube or tiktok comment sections), her race or background really has nothing to do with the matter. I'm not denying that the savior complex isn't true for some however. For me it's moreso the new listeners thinking the genre needs saving or what she's doing is somehow revolutionary, its fine just how it is.
Yeah the vibe here is coming off as like an amateur college humanities essay that is pretty much only deriving arguments from race and gender. Not a lot being said outside of commentary on that. What she's saying is right, but not always for the right reasons. A lot of this is just not supported by theory or concepts, just claiming things are the way they are because race and gender and personal experience. The whole thing about her not being the savior because she is white is A) erasing her intersectional identity (mixed race people exist) and B) just kinda racist in its own way as well. It comes off like a person being like "this taco isn't authentic because it was made by a white person" meanwhile literally talking about roy choi.
Her music is a jazz tangent, like Jobim and so many other commercially produced artists. And, like Jobim, she's one collaboration away from entering the community. The most important take away is that this debate is an uninteresting one. The big picture is that she's sparked conversation and interest in "jazz" for a new generation. How insecure is our community that we have to fight over what outsiders label our music, to the point of ostracizing listeners ready to embrace it
Outsiders only Label Laufey as jazz so that they can feel sophisticated for the most part. As Patrick Bartley would say, why do outsiders NEED Laufey to be jazz? Think about that for a minute. Genuinely the only reason I can think of is they are following the pack and don't know better, or because people who don't listen to jazz have this idea of jazz as being classy and sophisticated and makes you unique and special to be a part of. I think it's much more likely they want to say they're a part of that than they want to go to a jazz club and actually be a part of it. I think if you're seriously arguing this, you didn't bother listening to anything in this video or the Adam Neely one. People calling Laufey jazz detracts greatly from the actual jazz community that she herself declares is dead. Well of course you'd think something is dead if you've never participated in it and went out of your way to do so.
Imagine Laufey making older jazz rap beats in the 90s style like Q-Tip or Dilla and calling her the savior of rap simply because her style is a little older and she doesn't listen to modern rap? Absurd right? Especially to be calling a white person this is just....wow.
@@fritzjackson4336 what? how is she detracting "greatly"? by getting more people interested in it? by not putting enough swing in her rhythm section? absolutely missing the forest for the trees when you have young people lined up for music that, isn't just referencing jazz vocabulary, but actively using it and you get hung up on stupid things like whether or not she's fully "jazz" or not.
and i'm extremely curious how you are quantifying what "detracts greatly from the actual jazz community" and how random articles saying she's a savior has done that.
just enjoy the music, or dont
@@fritzjackson4336 I specifically called her music a "jazz tangent." See above. And "outsiders" call her music "jazz" because, on the surface, it sounds like jazz. Its really that simple.
@@circles79 Meh. Not buying it. That's very much a forced conversation, and quite different than the examples you gave. The topic of conversation is "is this jazz"? No one even agrees where she fits, not to mention she's apparently been outright rejected by the jazz community. The hype will die down, and jazz will continue to thrive under the mainstream radar without a second thought of Laufey.
With the examples of VI and Elvis, they were a part of the music, there's no question about that. If you want to argue that they were being heavily promoted as the face of the music at the time, sure, but history today remembers VI as the dude from the Ninja Turtles movie, and talks about Elvis for other reasons, but not for "inventing rock and roll." You might as well be saying Phil Woods was the face of hard bop...
Anyway, forcing important conversations on topics like "is Laufey jazz" diminishes the importance of those conversations. Lets not do that.
I agree with your conclusion but your "evidence" is weak at best.
Someone not being black isn't a way to validate your argument that they aren't jazz or the savior of jazz.
I watched Adam Neely's video and his evidence is a bit better presented but falls on the same assertion. Nonblack = not able to hold the title.
Laufey isn't jazz by my definition because her music is pop. it is made for the sake of being as popular as possible within its own genre. It's jazz-pop to me, because it still has jazz elements. What "jazz elements" are is blurry and subjective. No solid argument can be made for the line of what is jazz and what isn't without excluding a lot of jazz musicians and including a lot of non-jazz musicians.
Either accept that music like this can't be put in a neat little box, or face the fact that this discussion is pointless, entirely subjective, and demeaning to a ton of people.
I understand that your video was more about her being called the savior of jazz and why she shouldn't be, but you still didn't really give any good arguments apart from "shes not black, therefore it would be whitewashing to say she is lifting jazz out of a 5 foot grave." which in a way is true but why? because jazz originated in black american culture? Rock also originated in black american and european culture yet the biggest figures of it are all white guys and no one has an issue with it.
I do not wish to be rude or anything while saying this, but this video (and Adam's) are pretty weak, even as a regular viewer of his content and a second-time viewer of yours. you both have done great work on other videos, but these aren't really built on any foundation, regardless of who agrees with the conclusion or not.
I kinda feel like they are just being salty tho ngl.
While Adam mentioned race for historical context (good), I don’t think his argument was race-centric at all. His two main arguments were 1) based on musical style, Laufey is drawing more from 1950s pop and musical theater than from straightforward jazz, and 2) based on community, Laufey isn’t communicating or collaborating with other jazz musicians. DOMi & JD Beck are young white musicians, but they easily pass both of these tests.
Edit: I will add that I’m similarly iffy on the “we shouldn’t call Laufey the savior of jazz because she’s white”. On one hand there is a long history of white artists intentionally or unintentionally stealing the spotlight from black musicians, simply because the majority of Americans were more comfortable with someone who looked like them. On the other hand, it is entirely possible that the musician who is doing the best job introducing jazz to a new generation could be white. If it’s true, it’s true. (Although it’s not Laufey, for the reasons stated above.)
Edit 2: And for what it’s worth, I think the gender-related point - jazz instrumentalists are mainly men, which can make it difficult for women to feel comfortable at jam sessions - is entirely reasonable. No real dissent from me there.
I agree with everything that is said here.
I think almost all forms of gatekeeping are dumb, especially when utilizing immutable characteristics like race/ethnicity as a weapon to gatekeep. Jazz (and every other form of music) grows through inspiration and sharing. When culture/music is so ardently gatekept, the gatekeepers are only doing damage to their traditions by pushing away those who might learn to appreciate and grow/propagate said traditions.
People should not need to belong to X race, Y Class, or Z ethnicity to enjoy and build upon tradition that inspires them. Sharing culture should be celebrated!
In regards to Laufey, I think nit-picking what historical genre her music belongs to is kind of silly. In the end, all of these musical categories are man-made and only exist because we get some utility out of them. The more time one spends dissecting her music to argue over what genre it should belong to, the more it feels like gatekeeping. I reckon people should not worry so much what mainstream articles say about the categorization of Laufey's music, and just enjoy her music for what it is.
Well put. Art is a conversation and any attempt to wall it off and purify it smothers it’s power.
Wish this would get pinned
As nice and wholesome that is I don't think it's honestly realistic or fair to say that about the different communities that decide to gatekeep thier music. Most if not all musical genres are tied to an identity that represents the group of people preforming it and that group of people have given it meaning and value which is called culture. To just let outsiders walk in and take aspects or even worst completely change the original culture would just be baffling and disrespectful, especially when they don't understand it. Yes it's true that growth in a genre (or anything really) won't happen until it's boundaries are pushed. But it's important to remember that the "rules" or general understanding in particular culture are there for reason and most of the time it's because that's wat shapes the genre identity. Like imagine a rock band claiming to be a baroque string quartet but that only string instruments are the bass and the guitar 😐. Also I'd like to add that genre is just a general idea, an artist doesn't have to adhere to it but if an artist DOES claim a genre that it's only fair to critique their music for not having any major elements of what their music is supposed to be based on.
@@KOOLBOYSC1I think time plays a role. As in a century of time is beyond fair game for a genre to have assimilated, evolved, permeated etc. 10 years max is probably the norm, if that.
Naturally, a musical subculture that defines (to whatever degree) a community's identity will be more charged and will necessarily "gate keep" to allow that community to build it's identity. I'm all for that type of gate keeping to stave off cynical or clueless comidification or opportunistic co-opting. To allow the art to organically grow based on its original intent and influence And even that will fail to be homogeneous to some degree. But at a certain point the SUCCESS of that subculture and its art will surpass its ability to gatekeep or contain it. It's no longer an infant that requires (or will tolerate) protecting and nurturing by the small community that birthed it. It's out in the world (all growns up!) And that's just how art and culture goes in a multicultural environment. It's a good thing.
I think by "saving jazz" a lot of these commenters mean "making jazz mainstream and 'accessible' (to white people and those outside the jazz community) again, like it used to be".
Unfortunately, for many of us, that time period is not considered quite so golden. It's Lala Land all over again. Save jazz from the black people and the music heads who don't use it right
best comment, thank you
When laufey sits down to write a song, is she really asking the question, is it jazz, am I saving jazz, what genre of music should it fit neatly into? For anyone to do that would be stifle their own creativity. Given the wealth of musical knowledge we now have, an artist can incorporate anything they want and be inspired from whatever genre, whether classical, jazz, Latin, to accomplish the feelings and emotions they want to achieve. And that's the difference, Laufey's songs do touch a lot of people, while a lot of jazz, jazz clubs, jazz jams, make people, me included, feel nothing at all, except to admire the skills at playing the instruments but nothing beyond that. There is no need to over analyse, just ask, am I enjoying this?
Well said 👏
Thank you for this video. Maybe I can provide some old fart perspective 😃. As a child in the 70s I saw the older people feel the brunt of their creativity being appropriated with whites making millions and the black’s being poorer for it. From swing to early jazz to blues to rock and roll which has its basis in the blues and so forth. That can generate a lot of resentment in a community where a group’s creativity is constantly marginalized. I’m happy to see that the zoomers are much more open and accepting so in this light I think we can discuss jazz from my point of view (as an old fart). For me, I keep things simple. Does it make my head bob, and does the artist improvise. Laufey does the first but not the second. I like her music as it makes my head bob, but she’s not improvising within the verses. For a good example of what I mean, listen to some Carmen McRae. Improvising within the verse comes from the old style black gospel tradition. Which is why singers like Aretha sound like they do. This isn’t some awful thing as there are excellent jazz singers out there, Samara Joy as one of the excellent young singers for example. Anyway music is music. Enjoy it and celebrate the artist creating it.
thank you for sharing your perspective! it was really nice to hear what you seen and experience. great insight on your part
Thanks. Great insights presented very articulately (articulatetly? :) ).
I do wonder how comfortable Laufey is with being "the saviour of jazz"? I'm guessing this was not her goal when she set out and she was just making music in a style she liked and meant something to her.
same thoughts like I’m aware about her sentiments about jazz but the media portrayal of her being “the savior of jazz” is i think beyond her… unless she dismisses it or smthn
I'm convinced that Laufey will change the music industry in the future, but I don't know if her career will move to other genres. In terms of her mid-century pop, I'm sure she want to do something different. In the Zach podcast, she really inspired her career like Taylor Swift did by changing her career from country pop star to pop star in my opinion.
just out of curiosity, was there ever a discussion like this when Norah Jones was very popular around the time she won the best album grammy? whether she is the “saviour of jazz” etc? was jazz dying back then as well?
That’s a really good question. Just off the top of my head- but if memory serves me Norah wasn’t marketed at Blue Note records “jazz” she was adult contemporary/ easy listening played in Starbucks. For Norah I think her timing was everything. She has a unique story to begin with. From her very famous father to the moment she broke the mainstream. Her song Don’t Know Why came out during a very introspective moment in the US grieving 9/11. It was very soothing music. There are theories about that post 9/11 moment perfect for her “jazzy” Starbucks songs. But I have no memory of Blue Note mark in ting her as a “jazz savior” This sounds more like Ryan Gosling in La La Land than Norah
Norah Jones was a huge coup for Blue Note records after a period of “Jazz is dead” sentiment following the neoclassical wave of treating jazz like classical music. I wouldn’t be surprised if she was absolutely anointed jazz’s savior or something else like that.
I wonder if a veteran jazz journalist like Nate Chinen would be willing to speak to this
Great video, also props to Adam Neely for recognising that there was something missing from his recent video and adding your content to his channel.
Initially I was hesitant to even watch this content because most likely, this discussion of “is Laufey jazz” only exists because she was placed in this category by an algorithm. The unfortunate thing is that I cannot easily come up with an alternate genre definition for her work. When I hear her songs I think that she’s perfectly reflecting an old timey romanticism of the same vibe as I dunno, a love song written by Cole Porter or the like. Then there’s also a bit of a bossa nova component. Both referenced in a way that point back to periods in time where white American musicians were very successful with this specific type of whitewashing of both black American and South American music. So: I’m hearing a type of mid 1900s mainstream pop. Which is only tied to jazz in the most marginal way.
Ima say: Laufey is great at embodying old timey kitsch, and I assume she’s also very aware of the cultural histories of these styles. Would she even want to get into more “jazz” based musical circles at this point in her life? Probably not, or not yet. Adam Neely pointing the finger at Laufey and telling her to go to a jam session seems completely besides the point. The main question is not about Laufey, but about jazz as a whole - why do people not understand jazz for what it is. And then drag a young female musician into the discourse who really doesn’t need to be involved. Why is jazz invisible to the algorithms that now govern our culture, and what can we learn from this question. The answer has something to do with capitalism and colonialism of course but who cares I need to stop ranting now. Thanks bye! ❤️
You are taking the delulu trend to a whole new level. Never in the past 5 years of my existence have I heard a more conceited delusional monologue like the one in this video. I'm amazed by how touched I am on an emotional level.
Perhaps because I value transparency, genuinity and truth so much.
Honestly, with jam sessions I think in general it's a very uninviting space. Not to discount certain prejudices women can exclusively face in that environment, but every jam session I've been to has been a terrible experience.
As a Jazz musician in Toronto in 4th year of humber, the city is full of Jazz musicians, between York, U of T and Humber as well as the professors and alumni. However, being in such an educational space invites so much competition.
The last time I went to a jam session, I went up to play and so did this other alto player I had never seen before. We played and all solo'd but when it came to his solo, he clearly struggled. He was clearly new and trying to figure things out, but instead of encouraging, the tenor saxophonist (Who is very big in the Jazz scene known throughout the world), started playing over him during his solo. The tenor player then passed the solo on to the drummer to basically shut him up.
After the tune finished, the female bass player loudly recommended towards the bassist we play something simple like a blues. So, we ended up playing a Bb blues, and I noticed everyone in the band ignored this player and didn't allow him to solo.
I find the idea that you should just practice to backing tracks for 4000 hours before ever going to a jam, a very gatekeeping viewpoint. Which is another reason many people find it too daunting of a music to start playing. As well as the media that has come out that has either directly or indirectly supported emotional (and sometimes physical) abuse to the people who can't play jazz very well in order to "encourage" them. I.e. Whiplash, and general stories told through the community about the jazz greats being abused before "getting good,"
At the end of the night I was told I was good and even received a random follow on instagram from the tenor player and a DM saying that I played really well. But I would still not go back. Sure, I ended up getting positive feedback because I'm a professional player, which is great, but what happens when I have an off night and can't play as well? or a tune I don't know that I then have to ear? Most importantly, what happens to the inexperienced kid who just wanted to have fun? Will he ever pursue the music? Will he ever pursue a musical education?
So, to laufey's credit, I understand her not wanting to go to a Jazz jam. What happens when she goes, and has to scat over giant steps and can't do it well. Will the Jazz community actually be inviting when she gets there? I think they would be, but only because she could call them for a gig. Someone else with the same level of talent might be ridiculed.
I wonder why Jon batiste, thundercat were never called “savior of jazz” when they’re nearer to the genre. Also there’s something weird about saying jazz is unapproachable but laufey is.. jazz has always been very full and complex why water it down?
Thundercat gets hate for being "funk" and Jon gets crap for having vocals - and both get the same end of the stick of crusty cats complaining new jazz isn't a 1:1 of Miles or Coltrane.
I love how you clearly convey your message and arguments without attacking the artist. espetially at the end part of the video where you say there is space to grow, this is how every discussion video should be.
Jazz is a musical language. With the option of adding 9, 11 and 13 to the chords a very interesting one. It is there to be spoken by who ever likes to do so, anywhere, in whatever context and with or without company. Oh, try & guess - in what category is Laufey a Grammy Nominee ? - : "Best Traditional Pop Vocal Album"
Heya just came across your video, really well made! I was thinking about a lot of things you mentioned in this vid after I watched the Neely video as well. You should do more of this style of content vid essay stuff about music - the format suits you!
This is such a great counterpoint/response to Adam’s video. Thanks for making this.
I saw her live...she is great❤❤❤...she herself does not label as a jazz musician...she said, she loves classical music, jazz and pop...and loves to combine all three...I heard many different influences in her music
you know this video is real because there's a focusrite audio interface just sitting there
The fact that she’s not a progressive jazz singer but is so popular is and indication that not as many people are looking for jazz. There are more progressive singers in r and b etc, and more complex instrumental expression to be explored with electronic effects etc. that are allowed in other genres, so the traditional tools of jazz are limiting now.
"It's not exclusive, but inclusive, which is the whole spirit of jazz." - Herbie Hancock
💯
This video was super informative. I think that the history and information can be greatly used at a broader level compared to just Laufey. As someone who loves listening to Laufey, I felt like this video and Adam Neelys video are both painting Laufey as someone who "doesn't understand the culture" or what jazz is about. But in reality, she greatly understands jazz and its culture (as shown in many interviews). Correct me if I have misinterpreted parts of this video
hey! thanks for your comment and glad this video was able to provide some insight. i think a big part of jazz is being able to interact with the musicians within the community. based off of some of her interviews, i think adam and i found that the way she describes jazz is a bit far removed from what the community is. she can be college-educated but that’s different than engaging with the people that actively play the music.
Everyone I knew who ended up being obsessed with Laufey had shocked me by weeks before saying they couldn’t stand jazz
I like her music, but the attitude that she has of “saving jazz” rubbed me the wrong way bc many of my gen z friends are jazz musicians! What do you mean you’re bringing it to this generation?
(Also, I think it’s pronounced lay ‘vay)
That’s how she had it spelled out in her Instagram bio for a while, anyway
@@Billie12208 its /ˈlɔuːβ,øy̯ː/ (not perfect, but damn close)
"lay-vay" is both innaccurate and can be interpreted in so many ways
Laufey isn't Jazz. It's MOR. That's why you can hate Jazz and still like Laufey.
@@Billie12208 You not realizing the space you're in with your young peers being an outlier for young culture is kinda cute. The masses aren't listening to jazz, young or old.
I like Laufey, me and my daughter covered falling behind on my TH-cam…. But Samara Joy won awards and no one mentions her in this space at all, and she sings traditional Jazz… but not call her a savior. I hope Laufey fans listen to and support other artists in the space. I love Jazz. And Laufey’s music is Jazz to me, even if it’s more popular.
Your commentary is awesome and your video is really well made. I really would love to hear your takes on other music related discussions, kind of like Adam Neely.
Thank you for you lucid, thoughtful and awesome video. And unlike most of the complainers about Adam’s video, you took the time to communicate deep truths in a clear and inclusive manner.
I love her, you can hear where she got her inspo from, its beautiful how she made this type of music special again
You are very correct about jam spaces. I have tried to go to a local one, but it's almost always just guys.
Really interesting video! There's a complicated history but you managed to summarise it quite succinctly and explain where the gatekeeping originates from. I often wondered if it was just my own insecurities feeling left out of the loop but the gatekeeping is a real thing and thank you for addressing the issue of male dominated spaces. I've often been told to just attend Jam sessions and it's not that easy as a female.
yes! i also want to emphasize that gatekeeping was not solely because of the invention of bebop. anyone can play it and it was taught communally but that’s the key word. you had to want to learn and be part of the community. things got weird when the media started painting it in a weird light.
thanks for watching and also commenting!
I am South American, from Peru, born in 1971. My 12 year old daughter, half Peruvian and British, has fell in love with Laufey, because of her talent. Perhaps, she has listened to my constant playing of Ella Fitzgerald when all my girls were in my tummy and afterwards. Regardless, I will teach my girls to appreciate all music.
Ps. Pls, pls, life is so complicated. I will teach my children to appreciate everyone and everything, without prejudice.
I’m more of a pop fan who is somewhat curious about jazz and enjoys music that sounds “jazzy”. I feel like Laufey is in the singer/songwriter tradition in that she has a well defined, singular vision for her music but makes it with a sophistication and knowledge of music theory that isn’t present in most modern pop. Her songwriting and lyricism is incredibly sharp and she has a magnetic personality. That’s probably what makes her so famous. I say the music is “pop” defining pop as melody based music instead of rhythm based and also because it also “pops” in that it is very sharp, sweet, and controlled. Jazz might be more experimental and improvised but as I said before I’m more a visitor to jazz who doesn’t completely understand it yet.
idk what's going on, but I just enjoy the music.
From what I've heard from Laufey, she actually seems to have real chops and talent. Her ennunciation is the thing which seems most at odds with traditional jazz vocals and denuded of blues influence . That said, I think someone who doesn't have a feel for the blues singing blues inflected jazz probably feels much more appropriative than Laufey's approach. Maybe some folks migrate from listening to her to other folks more at home in the tradition. I don't think there is anything wrong with folks liking her as a one off so long as her approach doesn't set the standard for what is expected for new jazz artists (and in particular recording artists).
Just found your channel from watching you sing Shiki No Uta, and now I'm loving these topics! I love jazz, but have never talked about it with anyone since it's mostly absent in my culture (Brazilian).
Thank you for making this video, this discussion of the history and culture of the jazz music we love so much is very needed
I like how its degrading that Laufey is being called the savior of Jazz in some circles, but the post hipsters who want to try and label it a black folk music and want to defend it do not seem to be black either lol
Laufey’s music isn’t jazz. Its more in line with American modern romantic.
It’s not her fault people describe her genre is jazz.
This piece of navel gazing has more in common with pseudo academic scholarship.
American modern romantic is not a genre. Jazz is. Laufey is Jazz, just a different type of Jazz.
@@mikeevans6344 you must be new here. American romantic is just a description. Not yet another genre.
Is this jazz? Hell no! If one must have a label you might consider American ballads or even pop! But jazz? LOL!
Gen Z etc has so little idea of jazz.
Pseudo academic scholarship. I agree, just like I believe that Laufey
is “Pseudo academic jazz.
This was a fantastic video and i appreciate your point of view.
I do want to ask though: where did you get the twelve mile long mic stand?
LOL wish i had an answer for that. thanks for watching!
the differences is cultural/generational differences, Imo.
older gens obviously arent consuming their content thru social medias the way gen z are. So a lot of older gens are getting mad that tiktok style content and quick to consume media is being coined as jazz.
Anyways that aside, Mitamu, i think your last point raises so much more points and has a lot more nuance than Adam neelys original video. I love Laufeys music and im even going to her concert, but for her to join jam sessions, the way Adam neely pointed it out to her just sounded passive aggressive. Im glad u brought up the points like how a lot of jam sessions are very male dominated. I personally coin Laufey as jazz-pop or i guess the "mid century pop" terminology. But for the ppl who truly want to see Laufey interact with jazz spaces and its culture, we definitely need to fix these spaces and make it more inclusive for women and other marginalized groups
Isn’t Laufey mixed though? It’s hard to say she’s fully reaping the benefits of white privilege when she’s not fully white, nor does she look white.
hi! just want to point out that i didn't call laufey white. that was directed towards the press that has been pushing this narrative of saviorism which is rooted in a history of erasure (aka white-washed media). hope that clears that up
Just in case, she is icelandic-chinese if you are still wondering
I can't wait to see Samara Joy next month😉 thanks for your service.. defending jazz is a duty. I'm always explaining this to the people who don't know what it is and claim that they don't like it. Diana Krall had to go commercial to be heard as a jazz pianist. It's sad. ❤
so glad I finally had time to watch this video. i did not know who tf laufey was before you started posting this. you touched on such crucial points far beyond the issues with influencer artists and how often the greater music industry needs to be more mindful and respectful in regards to history, legacy and how to move forward more mindfully.
so many great insights and i love the edit
Thanks for your insights. I have been creating music literally since before I can remember (my mother said I vocalized melodies from the radio before I started talking). The older I get, the more I realize that my music is about so much more than my own creativity and at least equally about what I have absorbed from those before me. My fascination upon discovering a Cannonball Adderly/Nancy Wilson Lp was among many treats I was lucky and open enough to enjoy as a poor white boy going through the records box at my village library. I can appreciate jazz today (I played jazz Tbone until I was 18), but I found it a bit too toxic when I was figuring out my musical path in the late 70s and early 80s. Thanks again.
thanks for sharing your story and connection to the music! the nancy wilson & cannonball record is also one of my favorites as well
Really appreciate the history and insight, thank you!
I think in order to have a proper discussion of whether it's jazz or not, there is an important distinction to be made between playing jazz as in - a bunch of musicians get up on stage and say "let's play Cherokee" or whatever, and the concept of having a repertoire of jazz standards, the kinds of harmony we associate with this type of music (pre-bebop at least) and so on. Now, we can argue about the term "jazz standard" and is an Irving Berlin song or a Cole Porter song in itself jazz. But is Laufey, as a young singer songwriter following more in their steps or the steps of John Coltrane or Charlie Parker? The answer seems quite obvious to me, so why is everybody focusing on people like Miles Davis or Dizzy Gillespie? That's just not what she does. It's a completely different kind of music. It's like, if you compare Sinatra to Miles Davis. Not much in common even in the same time period.
As for Laufey, there's obviously nothing wrong with writing songs in that style, that's very clearly what she likes, the Gershwin or Jobim type of tune, the problem arrives when that gets automatically classified as jazz. And both Laufey, and the media get it wrong because of the confusing terminology and lack of consensus on these topics. Is it really a big deal though, is the public going to forget what jazz is about because of her? Probably not. (Although the Tiktok community might be hopeless).
I appreciate your input on this, I haven't ever listened to Laufey but after I watched your video I did so and, I think she is a crooner, which is a cool thing in its own right
also wanted to add a thought on jazz spaces and why they are so unwelcoming, growing up I read a lot of jazz biographies and jazz autobiographies and one thing that I understood through reading those books was that the jam sessions were really born for competition, they initially were called cutting sessions where one person would walk away as the best player of that night, it was a space to go head to head with your contemporaries with a jury of your contemporaries. So of course when you have a space that is highly competitive and has an unspoken and unarticulated and undecipherable hierarchy , trying to come into that with a mindset of " I'm gonna learn and just network" really just wasn't the vibe of the space and wouldn't be respected.
As for jam sessions today, idk but that is their origin so I would imagine that in some circles that energy and intention still persists.
I really appreciate you going through the history in all of this!! Really educational and solid as heck!
Well this has been a hot topic. Even thought I don’t like the term, the real gatekeepers were those who didn’t allow the music in mainstream settings (TV) and the post-2000 musician who is only interested in his peers music while ignoring everything else. As for whether Laufey is jazz, there’s other issues that are more important.
why do i feel glad that i'm not laufey right now
Jimi Hendrix did rock and roll.
Norah Jones did Jazz.
Eminem did Rap.
Look at how many Asians become elite classical musicians.
You dont need to be a certain skin color to have others label you a great. Everyone has their opinions.
Exactly 💯
Rock and roll is African American and Jimi Hendrix is African American lol so this proves nothing. The debate is more about cultural ownership of musical art as well asAfrican Americans are tired of being disrespected and bullied out of the genres that they have created by the white majority in the United States. It’s not about musical talent that people are upset about, but the apathy towards the cultural nuances of participating in African American genres of music that were made during such arduous times (slavery, Jim Crow, etc.). It is similar to being culturally aware of being a non Indigenous person entering a Powwow.
i like how the anpanman song comes up randomly in this jazz video
I feel bad for Laufey she just wants to make music and she's being ostracized by this community. I think she'll be chased away from ever going near jazz, plus she also has to be of a specific color so I'm sure she'll sure as heck stay away from it.
Unfortunately for her, she's the face of jazz to many people, including Spotify.
First video like this but hopefully not the last.
much love and thank you for watching!
I couldn't thank you enough for making this video contextualizing the history of jazz, the forms of gatekeeping from protecting identity & artistry to the "jazz is for the boiiiis". This summarized much of my thoughts around this and more. I have since bought an out of print "to be or not to bop" book and am looking forward to my collection of music history books!
Laufey is making music, and you guys complain about media and artists. This is why Laufey is so successful because she focus on music not other things. It's totally distasteful and unclassy to backstab other artists.
Is jazz gate kept? How would one gatekeep MUSIC ?
This was an incredible video, Mitamu! Loved the way you tell this stories and your point of view, fantastic editing as well. I'd love to see more of this
i play in community bands . i bring jazz to the rehearsals for concert band players who haven't heard it , i take the big songs that are like Mingus miles all stuff that we can bring to a new audience . we have been traveling this road for 10 years laufey will give us a kick along and we will take some clues from her . good discussion
havent watched the video yet but where did white-washing come from what does that have to do with anything
The savior can only be black??
Sure she’s more pop but what kind of arguments are those?
The jam sessions being a “man’s” space is weird to me. The only jam session I’ve ever seen was at a bar in Texas and it was about half and half women and men. Now, it never had singing. And it included a ton of students in the local school jazz program, so I guess it’s just different. Maybe a bar in Texas is just less sexist than a jazz session in a northern big city.
Both my daughters are aspiring jazz vocalists. As a professional musician, no way would I want them at any jam session. You bring up a great point here.
My 13 year old daughter is a huge Laufey fan, and is branching out and learning about the Jazz artists who influenced her. I see the emergence of Laufey's popularity more of a positive than a negative. She doesn't see Laufey as a "saviour" of jazz, that's a ridiculous assertion by the media.
I wouldn’t say that laufey is “reviving jazz” essentially but I love how she incorporates jazz inspiration into her music, I would definitely classify her as a jazz and orchestral pop musician than full on jazz since her pieces still have a modern like style to them. Laufey is more introducing a style of jazz and bossa nova to a new generation which will encourage younger listeners to research and appreciate jazz for what it really is, since jazz for so many years has been seen as un-accessible to younger listeners because of how white people have influenced and interpreted jazz, a music originally from black artists
Thank you for this, came for Adam and stayed for you. When i heard you say Jazz is for the boyz early on i knew this was going to be amazing. I think another part of this conversation is her upbringing in Iceland a beautiful but incredibly small, homogeneous and remote society. Anyway thabk you again
I really enjoy her music and I also listen to a lot of jazz, however I don’t feel like her music fits alongside count Basie and such, more so I feel like she’s writing standards in their most derivative form, I’m really into music preservation and there have been projects to reconstruct these jazz standards with the original orchestrations heard on broadway, her music fits right along with it. It’s up to musicians to take those lead sheets and make them into jazz
also mary lou williams and dorothy denegan are SO killin. mary lou taught all these guys, monk, parker bud powell. she was amazing !
Blossom Dearie !
Leave Laufey alone! 😂
No seriously. Jazz is for everyone wtf
i hope people will stop saying "jazz needs saving or jazz is dying" ...Jazz is actually the reason why we have Laufey and so many artists like Amy, Lady Gaga, Samara and also Cody Fry.. Jacob Collier, Sara Bareilles!.... Jazz just continues to evolve from the beloved standards, contemporaries and indies and i hope our generation continues to flourish in this love for music😍
I want to thank you for your words, particularly your insights on the experience of women with regards to this music that we love. You gained a new follower today.
I'm constantly having to remind myself that my experience in these areas will never be the same as it is for women or non white people, so these kinds of videos are infinitely appreciated ✌
sooo good! im a fellow jazz vocalist and a lot of your points resonated 💖
incredible that neither this video or adam neelys video say anything about the generally inaccessible cost of elite music conservatories. If anything is gatekeeping people from jazz it’s $50,000 yearly tuitions
we can definitely talk about that in a separate video and the gatekeeping of music education in general. unfortunately, we can’t cover everything at a single time but doesn’t mean it’s not worth addressing. thanks!
Those costs are outrageous, but I would argue that a lot of Jazz artists of the 20th century didn't have that sort of formal education. As a self taught musician, there are enough resources on this very platform that can get you there!
@@adampitt9311 i agree with you! Most of the 20th century jazz performers seemed to be educated in non academic environments. This laufey discourse is about professional and performing jazz (or pop) musicians in the 21st century - most of which seem to have(need) education from elite institutions
i’m self learning right now and there are definitely enough resources lol maybe too many
Dude I’ve been learning jazz for about five years now, and never had to go to music college. There’s so much information available out there, for free. In my opinion,the most valuable thing that music college may give you is network, but if you really like jazz and you work hard you’ll find your way into the scene. Parker didn’t have to pay $50,000 in tuition to become one of the greatest musicians to have ever lived. If you really like this tradition, you’ll find your way in.
I don’t think that the jazz conservatories are the problem, considering the whole of upper education in America is that expensive and all that. It’s not jazz education it’s the educational system that’s the problem
Women aren’t welcome in jam sessions is such bull. Maybe back when Melba Winston was alive it was like this but idk if you’ve ever been to a jazz jam session but women are very much appreciated and respected
The very first statement is questionable, since jazz stylings were employed by both Black and Jewish musicians--and others in the Big Band tradition.
Song name 0:57?
misty sung by sarah vaughan!
@@mitamu thanks
adore this video, please keep making more!!
you are a g when you know from where she got the song at 9:20
Good earnest and interesting post. It made me think and ponder questions that I had hitherto dismissed in the past, so thanks for raising important questions. Laufey is trying her best and I feel that sometimes her critics can be a little dogmatic in some respects. Her music evokes a jazz mood and in some regards, that should be enough. Jazz has always been about challenging expectations.
Her work,, as has been said, is not jazz but Mid-Century Modern. A kind of homogenized melding of jazz and pop. Easy to listen to because it’s highly predictable but it sounds sort of jazzlike As well, several renown jazz artists applied themselves Mid-Century Modern performances because, for example, they liked Cole Porter songs too!
As a Brazilian Gen Z, Laufey’s music sounds like Bossa Nova inspired pop to me, so much of those elements that makes my brain go like “ahhh some Tom Jobim influence moment going on here”. I wish people my age and younger or older would know the history and where where these amazing style comes from 🇧🇷🇧🇷. lucky I grew up listening to it 💃🏻
1:17 If Emmet ever gets hailed as the “Savior of Jazz”, would you have found it odd or peculiar?
I agree that at the state of where Laufey is in her career, it would presumptuous to give her that title, but strictly restricting the right to reshape the music to a black american would a gate-keeping overstatement.
Bill Evans, Marian McPartland, Benny Goodman, George Shearing, Chick Corea, Dave Brubeck are great example of that.
Wouldn’t it be better ride on her mass appeal and actually turn her into whatever she’s claimed to be so that it would give a better exposure for everyone who’s deeply passionate into jazz?
I think the issue is less of race (but that still plays a part) and more about community. Emmet is thoroughly in the jazz ecosystem while laufey is a classical musician who plays jazz, she doesn’t play in the jazz community
big fan of this rundown - and look at how history has treated this genre - Emphasis on Jazz spaces not always being accessible/ safe for woman-
I appreciate your explanations of A. how gatekeeping generally comes from a place of preservation of culture to whatever degree, and B. we can still make moves to change things as long as we understand the identities and histories of the cultures and make sure we do it tastefully. While I hate gatekeeping conversations, it is super reductive to assume it's because the kid in the sandbox doesn't want to share. There needs to be respect to the culture before someone decides to borrow or be revisionist about it.
Spot On.
I completely understand your perspective relating to the roots of jazz. Conservatism (or, yes, gatekeeping) is to be expected here.
However, you must realize that on this internet and globalization era, tradition is a niche.
And so, gatekeeping authentic African American jazz will inevitably turn it into traditional music.
Jazz will turn into the local/traditional music of the USA just like the local/traditional Japanese music to the lay Japanese people.
Take a look at kabuki. Do "ordinary" Japanese watch kabuki and understand kabuki lingos? Nope.
Take a look at sumo. Many "ordinary" Japanese regularly follow sumo tournaments. But, most Japanese certainly don't.
Also, for so many people outside the US & outside the jazz community, jazz means different things.
To some, jazz is Chet Baker, Bill Evans, Joe Pass, Pat Metheny or even Frank Sinatra.
Just like how classical music is only Beethoven and Mozart to some people. In reality, we certainly have Russians and Italians like Rachmaninoff & Scarlatti.
(Yes, I intentionally didn't mention any African American jazz musician. I literally just listened to Art Farmer, Modern Jazz Quartet & Red Garland a few hours ago)
I don't mean any harm and I do understand that this is a sensitive issue. It's certainly political. Everything's political since humans are political animals.
Each one of us has our own beliefs, desires & principles. Hence, we're regularly practicing politics with one another.
In conclusion, most people, especially outside the US, certainly don't understand the nuanced problems relating to Laufey.
Obviously we always try to understand what's really going on in the US and what really is the problem. Trust me, with how vocal you guys in the US are on TH-cam and social media, it's hard for us not to pay attention.
I'm just here to broaden the perspective and enrich the discourses. Jazz certainly have roots in African American people. The question is do all jazz belong to African American? Globalization still is a complex sociocultural problem.
hi there and thanks for your comment. i want to bring back the quote by amiri baraka mentioned: jazz is “the changing same”. it is constantly evolving with it’s times and environment but still rooted in the traditions of the blues and black experiences.
as many jazz legends, mentors, and peers have explained it to me. everyone is welcomed to play jazz and be part of it’s community. but, it’s like entering another person’s home. you have to have respect towards your host. even though, jazz is enjoyed and played by so many different musicians of different backgrounds (including myself), there is a reverence jazz musicians have towards the ones that fought so hard to have it in the first place. we understand that the music is black american music and we are welcomed. we can add our own voices (like chet baker, bill evans, etc.) to it but we never forget who’s house we’re in.
to use one of your examples: much like if i were to participate in, say, traditional japanese music. i’d be happy to be part of it and add my voice but would be conscious to never disrespect the culture i am participating in.
Look Laufey is no fake; she has a nice voice, she knows how to use it, she plays several instruments very well and she deserves her success. Is she a jazz player? Most emphatically not. Is she a jazz singer? Mh, not really. She is a pop singer who can compose and sing a nice bossa nova and sing some easy standards, not unlikey many female pop singers before her. As a matter of fact I can quote at least ten pop singers of variuos ages and nationality who absorbed the jazz language way more than Laufey. But I'll quote only one who is islandic as Laufey: Bjork.
Bjork actually started as a jazz singer when she was very young and even recorded an LP...
AMAZING VIDEO, SO WELL RESEARCHED, AND WELL DELIVERED. LOVE THIS ☺
6:07 "nonconformity" I'm dying. That was hilarious. Great video. I subscribed.
The only point that I would slightly disagree with you on in the video is about the whole black American art form. I am thoroughly against all skin colour identity politics being placed on music and art. People would identify me as a black person, but I do not use skin colour as an identity. That's just me. And that's my personal view. However, I do not think that it is healthy for us as musicians and music lovers to follow down that narrative of skin colour origin and ownership, so to speak, of a musical genre. If anything, it serves to divide music lovers more than it unites us. Yes, it is good for us to know what circumstances created the culture for a particular musical genre to be created, but apart from that no further value should be placed on skin colour.
hey! thanks for your comment. so just to be clear, everyone is allowed to participate and contribute to jazz. for example, i am a jazz musician and i am not black. many people that are non-black, such as chet baker and bill evans, contributed great things to jazz. something that my jazz mentors, elders, and contemporaries have taught me is to yes, be part of jazz, but understand that this music is part of black culture/experience. like any culture, we respect it.
my point in this video is a criticism towards the press for creating narratives with savior complexes and often erasure of marginalized groups. laufey is great. how the press is writing about her is not doing anyone favors
@@mitamu I get you. I understand the context you're approaching it from, and I definitely agree with you that there has been a narrative of saviour complexes perpetuated by the media over the years.
What my issue was, an it's really kind of a nitpick. Is that personally I would rather you say that Laufey a Non- American is being portrayed as a saviour of an American Art -form created by formerly enslaved Americans.
This way the focus is more on the cultural heritage of the creators and not the skin colour of the creators.
That being said, I absolutely love your content! Keep doing what you're doing. And you've earned yourself a life-long Subscriber!!!! 😇😇😇😇😇
Ultimately though, these genres of music are African American which has been tied with being black in the United States for nearly 400 years. Racial identity is intertwined with cultural identity in the United States because the foundations of this country was colonialism, enslaving people of African descent and taking lands of indigenous people. Whether you identify as black or not, this musical art has complex history and important elements that are deeply rooted in African American experiences during Jim Crow and being a couple decades right after emancipation. People of other cultures can definitely love jazz, but they ultimately are guests in this community, just like non Indigenous people are guests at a Powwow.
@@jacobschimp7939 I mean fundamentally I agree with you. Perspective is that as a Jamaican who others would identify as black I have no cultural claim to jazz music which is why I think that the categorization of African-American is more specific and less complicated than to color code the music especially seeing that no other musical outside of African and African-American music are color-coded
Love the video! What's the song that you played in the beginning with the female singer? I really loved it and I can't figure out what it is.
hi! thanks for watching and really appreciate you leaving a comment. the song is “misty” by sarah vaughan :)