Hi Adrian! Yes- when the item is heavy and closer to you (I need to look where that came from but somewhere out west I think) it makes no sense to come to Florida first so I send direct- tensely watching to see how this turns out! Thank you for the effort and excitement! I also haven’t posted feedback on the item yet- so juicy feedback coming on this one lol!
Shipping something in that condition, packed like that without even opening it up and drying it out goes well beyond poor judgement, it's clearly malicious.
I ran a small office on a Tandy 4000, using multi-user SCO Xenix. There was a card that provided four video cards (Hercules, as daughter boards) and keyboard interfaces so it could support five people (this was called the "unterminal" VNA from Advance Micro Research- the monitors and keyboards could be like 20 ft. away from the computer). This was much nicer than using serial terminals. We ran "SCO Professional" (SCO's Lotus 123 clone) and RealWorld Accounting. There was no networking. There was a direct line from the 68000-based Tandy Model 12/16/6000 to this for business applications.
Back in another lifetime, I was the manager of a Radio Shack Computer Center. The 4000 was an extremely expensive machine sold to businesses for use as a POS/inventory/bookkeeping system. Most likely it was caught in a hurricane flood and sat in an attic or something for decades! That thing was a boat anchor! If I remember correctly it weighed about 50 pounds.
I used to work at Radio Shack back in the mid 90s for a few summers. In the late 80s when they went from hand written receipts to a POS systems, they used this 4000 with Unix on it. All the sales were done with serial terminals up front connected to the 4000. After closing you would run the daily sales which would have the system compilate all sales/inventory data and package it up to be transmitted over a modem connecting to CompuServe. There would also be an external SCSI tape drive you would run to back the system up. By the time I was hired in 95, these systems were getting very slow (daily compilation would take a long time and the terminals up front had some lag to them). Fortunately they started refreshing these 4000s with a Dell Pentium which were much faster. They then had us actually take the old Tandy 4000 and put them on the sales floor and sell them for $200. I was told corporate would send them a disk that would reformat the drive and install DOS. But we didn't wipe them there and it had all those customer records on them! Different times. :)
@@BearfootBob Well, I'm kind of on the fence regarding that; only because I used to work for them. I miss not having a local store to go into that has electronic parts. I don't miss the micro-micro-managing they employed. No wonder they had such a high turn-around of employees.
So true! This is worst state of a system I've seen in some time. I do remember the Tandy line of computers though. I often visited Radio Shack stores because I was interested in the hobbyist electronics. What I remember of these systems was that they were significantly overpriced for what you get with the exception of the 1000 series. And yes the 3000+ were pretty nearly bog standard x86 machines, nothing to write home about. Still, if you can get this to run Adrian, you truly are a master at repair. Most people would take one look at that and say, "nope, not worth it." I love how to take on these challenges for better or for worse.
@@jandjrandr The 4000 was "cheap" for a 386 at the time. The only other offerings when it came out were Compaq, and the ironically IBM incompatible IBM machines with microchannel, which were even more expensive than Compaq.
The second math co-processor socket at 54:19 (U15) is for a Weitek math co-processor and not a 387, hence the W1167 marking (Weitek 1167). It's likely that one could be used in addition to the 287/287XL in the 16-bit socket as well. It may support a W3167 as well which is likely a little more common. Though both Weitek chips are quite rare now and were expensive options when new.
That certainly makes sense given the silkscreen. The TRM says: "Support for optional 80287 or Weitek 1167 math co-processor." I have a Rev A board and a couple Rev C boards. The Rev C boards have a 387 socket, but no 287 socket.
Watching you troubleshoot and revive heavily damaged hardware is half the reason I come to this channel. I'd love to see you attempt to get this working, even though as a board there's nothing particularly special about it. I'm sure I'm not alone.
@@graemedavidson499 Yes, I went down to verify that afterwards, as I could have sworn my 386 still had some whetsone indication for FPU test (NSSI) despite not having a physical FPU. The numbers are very low, but they're there.
Oh the memories of this machine in the backrooms of the many Radio Shacks I worked at and managed from 1990-1994! Running those tape backup's daily, waiting for the system to do the occasional update it would recieve after dialaing home for the daily sales/inventory exchange. These machines were beasts and lasted through a lot. These 4000's were the brains and muscle for each Radio Shack store as the Tandy 1000 TL (sometimes TL/2's) at the front counters were just terminals for POS & Inventory look ups from the Tandy 4000 sitting in the back room at the managers desk. Would love to see you revive this board.
And to think, I had a Tandy 5000MC in my possession, never realizing just how rare these early 386 Tandy's were. The 5000MC was truly not a generic clone, given it was built around a licensed IBM Microchannel bus. I found it on a temporarily abandoned floor of an office building I worked in 20 years ago (an insurance company HQ had moved to another location). There sitting on a lone desk, in a stripped-out office space, was a Tandy 5000MC (by 2004, this was a completely obsolete machine). A top-of-the-line Tandy that I had only ever seen catalogs and advertisements. I took it home, played with it for a bit (still had all the configured hardware and was setup to run Netware 3 - complete with the user DB still present, though all data volumes had been present on an external SCSI array that was missing). Unfortunately, this was before retro conservation efforts had taken hold, so I couldn't find any configuration disk images, which meant I couldn't configure the system for, say, an MCA SoundBlaster. It was kind of stuck with the config it had, and I couldn't even pull the battery to change it without essentially rendering the machine useless. Eventually, deciding that it wasn't in the same category as my Mac's, Amiga's, SGI and Alpha machines I'd collected over time (especially as those were actually my machines that I'd either purchased or were given to me as they aged out), I decided to send it for recycling. I very much regret that choice now, as it might have been one of only a handful of surviving examples of a very rare, licensed MCA machine from Tandy. I hope someone still has one out there, as I'd hate to think the 5000MC was lost to time.
If it wasn't for the fact that I am on the other side of the country, I would be glad to take on that case restoration. I have done similar projects twice before. Once on a IBM 5170 that was solid but very rusty from a leaky battery. The other was an Amiga 2000 that somehow was actually in worse shape than this Tandy 4000.
@@mysticgreg I can tell you never worked around flood water, especially in a city where all the sanitary sewers emptied out into homes through the sewer.
@@MajorHavoc214 Stand down. @mysticgreg was just making a joke. You never heard of putting your phone in rice in order to absorb any moisture you may have in it if it gets submerged in water?
Adrian; I have used CLR, "Calcium Lime Rust" remover and a Camel Hair brush to remove corrosion from PC boards. The procedure is to brush full strength CLR onto the corrosion until it is removed. After removal, thoroughly wash the board in water then rinse in distilled water and finally with rubbing alcohol. Thoroughly air dry the entire board for at least 24 hours before use. Years ago I posted this procedure online and it was used by the USCG to recover some mission critical electronics.
Like others here, I also worked at Radio Shack from about 88 - 92. We had a 4000 in the back room with serial dumb terminals up front (and a Tandy labeled Okidata dot matrix printer!) Is also bought a 3000 used.... It had been either a Unix POS or a NetWare server before I got it. These machines (3000, 4000 & 5000) were as mentioned above business class machines. They even required labeling to say that it was a different class of electronics (for radio interference). And that is why no O/S was included and no video card by default. Many many of these machines were used as what ever Unix flavor host system instead of as a desktop user PC. And the 5000 was a MicroChannel machine, to compete with the IBM PS/2 line. But for sure, these machines were built to be business class servers and hosts, not desktop PCs at all.
I don't know if you noticed but the 386 chip has a double sigma on it. When Intel released the first batch of 386's there was a problem with some of the chips when performing 32-bit multiply operations. They went back and tested all of them. If the bug was present they stamped a "16-bit only" label on them. The good chips were stamped with the double sigma.
Seeing the pricing for these Tandy setups at that time, makes me realize just what a decent deal our Memorex/Telex 286-16mhz system was. We paid about $3500 for that system in late '88 but it came with an AMD made 286 running at 16mhz, a full 1MB RAM, a 20MB HDD, both 3.5" and 5.25" high density drives. Dot matrix printer, 265k VGA built in, 13" VGA monitor, Dos 3.3. We thought it was a crazy expensive setup back then, but again it seems it was a very decent cost for everything we got with our setup back then.
And then it loses 90% of its value within a few short years. I can see why the C64 was so much more popular than IBM compatibles in my country. Anyways, yeah I think that's a decent deal at that point in time.
A similar 12 Mhz AT would have cost $4000 with a 10 Mb hard disk just 18 months prior, with 640k of RAM and no printer, and a mono monitor. Crazy how quickly prices dropped in the late 80s up to the mid 90s.
Wow, that 4000 is in pretty sad shape! The "new for 88" thing along 1987 date codes on the machine is expected for those of us in the Tandy/Radio Shack world. Radio Shack catalog years were a lot like model years for cars; the 88 catalog came out between August/September of 1987, with most "new for 88" items being available when the catalog came out or shortly after (in 1987). Example: The Deluxe RS-232 Pak for the Color Computer was "New for 84" in the 1984 catalog, with the catalog indicating it would be available on 10/30/83. Love your videos!
Hi Adrian! I have restored a Packard Bell Legend 725DX like the Tandy 4000. It was a rust old computer. The case was sand blast, paint with Rust Stop then paint the computer case. I replaced power supply was bad (the electronic parts came apart). Good luck in finding a Tandy power supply. In a Zenith Data Systems power supply connector have 3 row of 5 pins. I convert a ATX power to Zenith PSU connector output (you may need to do same type of modify for Tandy PSU). *Caution - working on PSU have high voltage and very Danger.* The motherboard was repaired back into working order. Yes, it was lot of fun in restoring the computer back into working order.
I remember in highschool graduated in '87-'88, we had a small "lab" of 5-10 terminals hooked up to a Tandy running Xenix. This allowed us to do something with some terminal based business software. This could have been a 3000 or 4000, not sure.
My dad's 385 DX 25Mhz with Math Co Pro cost like $3500 in clone parts and I recall him saying it's the biggest checque he had ever written up to that point. That was about 1989
Wish you luck with this board! It will be challenging I guess. Once I had experience with old soviet DVK that was stored outside as well. It took almost four month to restore mainboard. There were plenty of split rows and shorts. Good luck!
I would like to see you troubleshoot this board. What I liked about this video, is your techniques and steps used. They are going to be very helpful to my work with old motherboards. So I feel that seeing and learning from your steps taken on a board like this are helpful in general. So with this one, I think the journey is more valuable than the destination. Even if it does not work in the end, it helps us evaluate when to carry on or send something to e-cycle. Once again, thanks for sharing your expertise.
This is a computer reset outdoor decade special! I've refurbished a Compaq all in one that was half as bad as this, but this thing, I don't think I'd even tackle this. Good on you for being that guy!
Thank you for this Adrian. Know that if nothing else you helped me by showing a large flat rust pannel so I can replicate the colours/Textures of that sort of thing in my Miniature painting hobby haha.
Love this project. Actually, I would love to see a full restore. possibly soak the bottom in vinegar. Get the rust off and paint with gray rust converter paint. Haven't seen to many 386 rebuilds. Usually 8088, 286, or 486. Plus, as you stated, really haven't seen too many Tandy 4000s.
For the chassis a product called Evaporust is great and non toxic. Can use it in a plastic tub etc vig enough for the time then once one pour it back in the jug(s) for more uses. Mine has lasted through many different items. Best to mechanically remove the loose flaky stuff first
54:12 it's a socket for a Weitek 1167 coprocessor. The 80387 came out 1987 ut had difficulties to deliver. The Weitek's were significantly faster than the 287/387 as they didn't use the coprocessor interface but used memory mapped I/O to communicate with the CPU. CAD packets like AutoCAD and other system could make good use of the Weitek FPU's.
I love seeing this one! 1988 era is my Radio Shack era really. I had already had a few coco's and 1000's by then, and was programming the vga graphics adapter and other game related things. I worked for the company from 92 to 99 and still have a few older machines awaiting the day I try to boot them up again.
I fondly remember the Tandy 4000. I at one time had two of them. It was after the IBM AT was released and before the PS/2 line. As expensive as equipment was, I wanted to run some of my old cards, and at the time, it was just introduced. I bought the demo model at my local Tandy computer store, it was the first one they had. I had upgraded to this machine from an IBM PC I had maxed out. I ran the original Tandy DOS at first but eventually ran DOS 6.22 on it. I ran the early Windows 3.x versions and Windows 95 on it. I had a CompuAdd edsi cache controller on it for extra fast hard drive performance and a large 300Meg hard drive. I had both EGA and VGA graphics cards on it. I used it when in college for remote access to the university's dial-up and bbs systems of the time.
When I worked at Radio Shack these machines were used in the backroom as servers connecting with our point of sale computers at the counter. At night it would modem dial Ft. Worth, TX and it would upload sales data, inventory levels and our collection of names, addresses and phone numbers we gathered when ringing up customers that day. Imagine.... Its 1/2 past closing and after 15 busy redials I am stuck impatiently waiting for the slow upload to complete..and the loss of carrier. No Zmodem recovery. :(
Or worse, you open the store in the morning, rotate the backup tapes, only to find out the tape won't get initialized. Now, you've got to hand write your receipts and the POS terminals are held hostage at the mercy of one stinking backup tape. Happened to me multiple times when I was Shackeled.
I have a Tandy 4000 in my collection (in much better shape, I might add). The most irritating thing about it is the BIOS. I believe it needs to be accessed with a floppy disk, but that's not the crummy part. You MUST have one of the 40-something drive types listed or your hard drive won't work. The goal I had with my unit was to install Concurrent DOS on it. (I always try to do something different with every PC in my collection). Since I don't have one of the listed drives, I tried to install overlay software onto the hard drive I was using, but the system would just lock up on me. My solution was to install everything using a more modern computer and just transplant the drive. However, my attention has moved to other projects and my 4000 has since been waiting for a little love since then. Just part of the hobby when you have an extensive collection :)
I've been a Ford dealer tech since 1994. When I started, our diagnostic system was called SBDS(Service Bay Diagnostic System). It was run on an HP Vectra based system(386-Dx 16). It ran on OS/2. I remember that it was a very responsive system at the time, but it quickly slowed down against 32 bit windows systems. It was outdated and replaced on our end by 2000.
The Tandy 3000 and 4000 were considered Business grade computers. Business grade computers were usually sold without the OS, because the company's tech would set up the computer with whatever OS that was being used. They were using IBM-PC compatible software, not Tandy software. They were commonly used on small networks for businesses that had custom, typically home-grown databases made with databases such as Paradox , DBASE and R:Base. I saw them regularly in smaller businesses that usually had less than 20 employees... Great video, Adrian!
Yep! They also used the Tandy 4000s in the backroom in the stores as well; they had Xenix and ran the POS terminals on them. They were the first multi-user POS server that Tandy used before they moved to a custom built 486 (before they moved to the ACR and SCO in the late 90s when I left.) I have some marketing material on the 4000 they sent to franchises that I scanned that I can send to Adrian.
I used to work for Radio Shack from April 2001 to Thanksgiving week 2004. They were using IBM point-of-sale terminals running Windows 9x and ACRWin. The main server in the back office ran I think SCO Linux or Debian with ACRWin running on top of that in Wine🍷. The DDS3 tape backup system was a pita.
I had a Tandy 1000EX with a 5 1/4" floppy, 256k RAM and no hard drive. I received it for Christmas in 1986. The 1000HX had a 3.5" floppy drive. I had some flashbacks when you were talking about it.
I worked at Radio Shack during this period. Most stores only sold the 1000 series and CoCo. Some stores were specially designated computer centers which sold the 1300, 2000, 3000, 4000, 2 & 16, etc and targeted the business market. They had dedicated computer employees.
I found a Tandy 3000 HL at my recycle plant. I snagged it just because it said Tandy on it. When I tried to look it up on the net I found very little about it, basically one YT video. I restored it for fun, now it looks and works perfect and aside from the fact it's a bog standard 286 I enjoy it because it's so rare.
I believe that mystery video adapter you're looking at was what got referenced as "Tandy 16" graphics, which was very similar to EGA, but not compatible. You'll see it as a specific graphics option on some software, but it also worked with CGA for software that didn't.
Reminds me of that 486 tower a customer brought in for repair. They reported it won't power up when dropped off. I got it on the bench and noted a very strong bug spray smell. I should have stopped there. Me and the other three techs stepped back in horror when opening the case, dozens of German cockroaches exploded from the machine. After getting the roaches removed, we found out the user had taken a plastic straw and sprayed at least one entire can of Raid through the floppy drive opening. After carefully examining everything, we found burned out power supply transformer, floppy drive motor, cpu, battery, and multiple addon cards like the VGA card. Called the user back and they decided to get a new machine rather than rebuild. I can say this mess of a Tandy comes close to as bad.
You had many questions about the Tandy 4000 and why Tandy marketed it differently than the other desktops. Like why they made the operating system and option and charged extra for it if you wanted MSDos. When Tandy Computer Centers existed their employees were computer marketing representatives. And the market was mainly businesses. The Trs80 Model 16 and the Tandy 6000 were highly successful with the Z-80 handling the I/O and the MC68000 handling everything else. Xenix and 1mb of Ram could handle a multi user environment quite easily and the sales team could make a living off the commission from these sales. Also the nearest competitor was more than double the price. When the Model16 and the Tandy 6000 were discontinued there was no equivalent replacement. The Tandy 3000 with an Intel 80286 was supposed to be the replacement and equivalently equipped it was a DOG. Even upgraded to 4mb and at the time VERY expensive it still didn’t perform as well as the Model16/Tandy6000 with 1mb. The Tandy 4000 was supposed to be it, but by then it was too late. A little over a year later the Tandy Training and support centers were closed and two years later they closed the computer centers.
Tandy 3000 and Tandy 4000 were only sold at the larger computer center stores, not the regular smaller radio shack stores. They didn't come with an OS because they were designed to run with several different ones and the user could choose. These were business machines, not personal home computers.
Not sure if you've noticed that many of these systems were classified by the FCC as Class A computing devices instead of Class B - as in they wanted them not being used in residential areas :) To respond to your comment about possibly getting the motherboard working - if we can locate a 4000 with working PALs and chips that someone can dump and verify for you to use for reference, I'd say that would be the best bet for you to even proceed. If you could get that clone IIE working, you can probably get this working, we have faith - but we have to be realistic and get you the right resources. Else, it'll be very frustrating.
I have a working example (well, I need to put a new hard drive in it). The irony is that it's the machine I've used to host my '90s Universal Device Programmer, which I'd need to use to dump the PLDs. But as it needs maintenance anyway, I could install the UDP in another machine and see if I can dump the PLDs, unless the security fuses are blown.
The documentation for the 4000 said something about using it for multiple terminals, so I think these more expensive systems were meant for businesses rather than consumers, so that explains both the lack of graphics cards, and the non-bundling of the operating system, as well as the cost differences between the systems. Seems like the nicer looking systems were intended for home use, where graphics and sound and cost were priorities.
LOVE the walk through of the catalog. I hope you have the chance to do more of those in the future! It would be funny to hear from someone who was on the marketing/product team for this lineup and explain the pricing/product stack choices they made. (Have we ever gotten a 'Hey! I worked on this! Here's the scoop...' comment in the channel yet?)
I love to see goners come back to life, even if just a little. To salvage something. Just fascinating. Plus the chance that it can be put back into service, at least a little... makes it worth it.
When you said you were going to take the thing outside despite it raining outside, my honest first thought was, "Well, what's a little more water going to honestly hurt?" I have to admit I was honestly just as shocked seeing the shape the machine was in when you first opened it, and I've seen some pretty rough rigs in the past.
The original Beroulli box external cartridge drive was floppy based, as in it didn't have a rigid HDD platter, it was an 8" floppy. It was called bernouli because of how the head floated the media, using the bernouli principle. This is from memory, so i might be wrong on details. But i am sure it was not a rigid platter system.
My guess that machine was left in an outdoor shed and found after the property was sold and the shed cleaned out. I had something similar happen when I purchased my house 16 years ago. There was an old shed on my property that was filled to the gills with all sorts or stuff. Unfortunately no electronics of any kind but loads of old windows, boxes and house parts that had been somewhat exposed to the elements for who knows how many years.
SO glad it wasn't an Apple! I worked at Radio Shack on and off between 1993-1996. This was gone by the time I worked there but there were still Tandy computers for a short period when I first started. Man I wish Radio Shack from the 80s-90s where still around!
What a ride this video was! I'd like to note a bit pedantly that the firmware version seems to be "01.03.01", the leading zero was at the end of the line above in the hex-dump.
Historical aside - OS/2 was targeted - in spite of recommendation from everyone - for the 286. IBM absolutely insisted on making OS/2 for the 286. This meant it could not go back and forth between real and protected mode efficiently. It was meant to get into protected mode and stay there. The 386 had a hardware VDM (virtual DOS machine) that avoided this problem. Microsoft targeted early Windows for both the 286 and the 386 and used the advanced features of the latter. That is why Windows triumphed over OS/2. By the time IBM realized their mistake it was too late.
Microsoft gave away the Windows SDK for free while IBM charged for it. This caused an explosion of software for windows and almost nothing for OS/2. And of course Microsoft heavy and agile marketing vs IBM dinosaur moves. There was of course the NT backstab but that gave fruit a decade later.
19:55 you were talking about comparing the 386 to mainframe capabilities. I would think an average desktop or laptop computer produced today on a gigabit or even 100Mb network could outperform a Cray class computer made in the 70s-80s.
The „387 processor socket“ could be actually for the Weitek 1167 math cpu board see marking „W1167“. This could be interesting if the boards works, go for it…
The Tandy 4000 Hurricane PC...lol. I used OS/2 until 1997 and it was apparent IBM wasn't going to support it anymore. I recall Windows was around $250 and I wasn't going to pay that. I ended up picking up a Slackware book that included version 3.5 on cd's. The 3" thick book (I still have it) cost me around $10 clearance rack at Borders. I still use Slackware to this day, I just installed version 15. I remember those Tandy 4000 at Radio Shack, I wanted one pretty bad because I thought I could run OS/2 at blazing speeds. Wow, what a blast from the past.
The copro socket has a w code silkscreened by it (w1167), the socket is actually for a weitek 1167 copro, not a 80387. A weitek copro was much faster than an 80287/8087 but far less supported as a weitek isn't x87 compatible but it was the only real option for very high performance floating point for early 386 systems as intel was late with the 80387. For best floating point performance and support you needed a 1167 and a 80287 installed at the same time For the case putting it in a pool of rust remover acid would easily get rid of a lot of the rust leaving raw steel needing a protective paint coating. Without a power supply in good condition there would really be no point in trying to do this though.
Story time: in the mid 1990's as I was driving along an overpass I got a good view of the contents of a long 18 wheeler dump truck which was coming up an on ramp. It was almost full to the brim with an enormous jumble of old pc's. Possibly they were just cases or maybe they were more than that. Either which way it was a bit saddening. All true so far and here is where imagination kicks in. Perhaps they were dumped in the ocean and as they tumbled down the lifted bed of the dump truck they were saying to each other: "See you on the beach." One was soon after rescued by a lobster fisherman and was set aside in a fishing shed by the shore. Skip ahead 30 years and it eventually made its way to Adrian's workshop.
@@adriansdigitalbasement2 I really gotta get a power bank for mine, though I've somehow mastered sleeping with it hooked up to a 10ft long USB cord. It's the only way I can get a full charge on it because I'm too ADHD to stay in one spot long enough otherwise!
18:15 The actual improvement in modern performance comes from pipelines for dedicated loads. The most major one back in the day was video encoding and decoding, and suddenly with it, a tiny phone can decode YT 4k stream. The modern CPUs add pipelines for stuff like AI and productivity applications, like video editing. Ofc, there's a finite amount of workloads that makes sense as a pipeline and quite often the point of that has more to do with improving efficiency (reducing power consumption) not necessarily the performance.
15 years ago i found a Commodore Pc-10 II exaclty like this at a Electronic Recycling dump, It had an array of rust and nests inside, fully restored it 6 months later using aggresive Metal Workshop grinding and rust priming, only thing i couldnt save was the HDD, so used a similiar type.
In 1993-1994-1995 when I was in university the rule was ram was $50 per meg. Hard drive space was $1 per megabyte and this was after a massive crash in pricing. Hard drive space only a few years previous was almost impossibly expensive. When the 256 meg hard drives showed up... i remember those were $250‐$300 and THEY WERE SO CHEAP! Lol. And super fast compared to the giant brass 20 meg drives.
Heat helps with stuck fasteners by expansion. In similar metals, the space between the parts increases as the dimensions of the parts increase. With these dissimilar metals, the aluminum case would expand ~3x as much as the steel, so heat would help a lot. (The reverse case, with the higher coefficient of thermal expansion surrounded by the lower, requires chilling the inner piece if it's possible at all...)
a "double sigma" original 80386-16! I suppose since it was touted as being able to run 32-bit OSes like Xenix and OS/2 it had to be. It would be interesting to benchmark against a 386SX-16, trying to make the systems as close as possible (cache, RAM, video). I don't hold out much hope for the motherboard. those PLCC chipset sockets look scary.
I find the battery bit funny. "Probably alkaline", as it clearly says right on it "Lithium Battery". Sure, the lighting probably only let you see the part that had the reflective background, but on camera it was legible. Also, the rusty sticker on top says not to expose contents to water, and it was clearly bathing for years.
OOF! That poor computer. I think whoever sold this was once told (maybe by their child or something) "man, this thing is such a boat anchor!" and maybe took that statement a little too literally... Definitely deserves some carefully crafted feedback, and I would even go so far as an Item Not as Described claim. As Desi Arnaz would say "that seller has some 'splainin' to do!" I hope Adrian is able to revive this poor leviathan. I've seen machines in worse condition successfully brought back to life, so it IS possible. But man that is gonna be a massive amount of effort.
This looked like a rebranded (or OEM) Chips and Technologies motherboard to me. They were a fairly successful motherboard manufacturer in the early 90s.
After seeing the price of these Tandy PCs, I now understand why my parents didn’t buy a computer for us until 1993. We were a lower middle class family back then and I’m guessing that even that cheaper Tandy 3000 was a month’s wages for my dad. I was only a kid back then and didn’t have any concept of money at the time. Looking back, I know now that the computer they bought in 1993 would have been a very cheap, outdated computer for the time (it was 25MHz 486DX, 4MB RAM, 170MB HD, 1x caddy loading CD, in 1993). It’s amazing how much the price of PCs dropped throughout the 90s.
Regarding those 87 math co-processors there was a Finnish Nokia brand PC that took either a 287 or a 387 and they overlaid the sockets so that the DIP row of the 287 just extended a few pins around the square 387 socket so that the middle pins were shared between the sockets. Pretty wild design :-)
![Adrian's Digital Basement ][](http://yt3.ggpht.com/ytc/AIdro_k7CrQRe71qN6c0Ua7A1P_I8KkxjqLa70u0zYeCvdvnKw=s48-c-k-c0x00ffffff-no-rj)
I was so relieved to see the battery didn't leak. That was a close one!
HAHAHA!!!!!
Pretty wild.... Leave it in a dry house and it leaks, leave it in the corner of a wet dirt shed and it doesn't leak 😂
@@adriansdigitalbasement2 I was just waiting to see cockroaches pour out when the case opened.
lmaooooooooooooo
🤣
Hi Adrian! Yes- when the item is heavy and closer to you (I need to look where that came from but somewhere out west I think) it makes no sense to come to Florida first so I send direct- tensely watching to see how this turns out! Thank you for the effort and excitement! I also haven’t posted feedback on the item yet- so juicy feedback coming on this one lol!
How was it described in the listing? Low miles, no rust, driven by old lady?
@@NielsHeusinkveldDriven over by old lady?
Ran when parked...
Shipping something in that condition, packed like that without even opening it up and drying it out goes well beyond poor judgement, it's clearly malicious.
Could you name drop the seller?
I ran a small office on a Tandy 4000, using multi-user SCO Xenix. There was a card that provided four video cards (Hercules, as daughter boards) and keyboard interfaces so it could support five people (this was called the "unterminal" VNA from Advance Micro Research- the monitors and keyboards could be like 20 ft. away from the computer). This was much nicer than using serial terminals. We ran "SCO Professional" (SCO's Lotus 123 clone) and RealWorld Accounting. There was no networking. There was a direct line from the 68000-based Tandy Model 12/16/6000 to this for business applications.
NComputing made similar solutions for both Windows and Linux...
Back in another lifetime, I was the manager of a Radio Shack Computer Center. The 4000 was an extremely expensive machine sold to businesses for use as a POS/inventory/bookkeeping system. Most likely it was caught in a hurricane flood and sat in an attic or something for decades! That thing was a boat anchor! If I remember correctly it weighed about 50 pounds.
Black mold easy fix just clean it off with soap and water🤣
@@SaraMorgan-ym6ue Yeah and what about the board corrosion, and the rust on the bottom? Soap and water too?
I think this one literally might have been used as a boat anchor.
@@MegaFonebone yeah I agree it explains the dirt and the rust🤣🤣🤣
@@the_kombinator nope a grinder and then rust proof coating simple
I used to work at Radio Shack back in the mid 90s for a few summers. In the late 80s when they went from hand written receipts to a POS systems, they used this 4000 with Unix on it. All the sales were done with serial terminals up front connected to the 4000. After closing you would run the daily sales which would have the system compilate all sales/inventory data and package it up to be transmitted over a modem connecting to CompuServe. There would also be an external SCSI tape drive you would run to back the system up. By the time I was hired in 95, these systems were getting very slow (daily compilation would take a long time and the terminals up front had some lag to them). Fortunately they started refreshing these 4000s with a Dell Pentium which were much faster. They then had us actually take the old Tandy 4000 and put them on the sales floor and sell them for $200. I was told corporate would send them a disk that would reformat the drive and install DOS. But we didn't wipe them there and it had all those customer records on them! Different times. :)
By the time I was hired, they had IBM pos terminals running Win9x and ACRWin. DDS3 SCSI backup tapes and an IBM Linux box. This was 2001 to 2004.
If I recall, and I probably don't, I think the 4000 back room computer replaced the Tandy 2000 that they used, which was an actual 80186 I think.
I think the 4000 stuck around quite a while too, until they went to the 425sx.
I frickin miss Radio Shack.
@@BearfootBob Well, I'm kind of on the fence regarding that; only because I used to work for them. I miss not having a local store to go into that has electronic parts. I don't miss the micro-micro-managing they employed. No wonder they had such a high turn-around of employees.
You are going to need a sponsorship from Deoxit for this repair.
So true! This is worst state of a system I've seen in some time. I do remember the Tandy line of computers though. I often visited Radio Shack stores because I was interested in the hobbyist electronics. What I remember of these systems was that they were significantly overpriced for what you get with the exception of the 1000 series. And yes the 3000+ were pretty nearly bog standard x86 machines, nothing to write home about.
Still, if you can get this to run Adrian, you truly are a master at repair. Most people would take one look at that and say, "nope, not worth it." I love how to take on these challenges for better or for worse.
and Clorox
Can you buy Deoxit in a 40 Gallon drum?
Interestingly I don't see any repair at all.
@@jandjrandr The 4000 was "cheap" for a 386 at the time. The only other offerings when it came out were Compaq, and the ironically IBM incompatible IBM machines with microchannel, which were even more expensive than Compaq.
The second math co-processor socket at 54:19 (U15) is for a Weitek math co-processor and not a 387, hence the W1167 marking (Weitek 1167). It's likely that one could be used in addition to the 287/287XL in the 16-bit socket as well. It may support a W3167 as well which is likely a little more common. Though both Weitek chips are quite rare now and were expensive options when new.
That certainly makes sense given the silkscreen. The TRM says: "Support for optional 80287 or Weitek 1167 math co-processor." I have a Rev A board and a couple Rev C boards. The Rev C boards have a 387 socket, but no 287 socket.
Watching you troubleshoot and revive heavily damaged hardware is half the reason I come to this channel. I'd love to see you attempt to get this working, even though as a board there's nothing particularly special about it. I'm sure I'm not alone.
A lot of these ended up in the backroom running Xenix as the main computer for the POS systems. Our store had one until 1993 until is was replaced.
I think the floating point performance of this machine was laterally measured in fathoms!
Underrated comment!
Considering there's no FPU, it can be measured in nothing.
@@the_kombinator an FPU is not required to perform floating point calculations:)
@@graemedavidson499 Yes, I went down to verify that afterwards, as I could have sworn my 386 still had some whetsone indication for FPU test (NSSI) despite not having a physical FPU. The numbers are very low, but they're there.
This 386 machine had a socket for an 80287. Yes, I typed 80287. I still have my 4000, but it needs some work.
Oh the memories of this machine in the backrooms of the many Radio Shacks I worked at and managed from 1990-1994! Running those tape backup's daily, waiting for the system to do the occasional update it would recieve after dialaing home for the daily sales/inventory exchange. These machines were beasts and lasted through a lot. These 4000's were the brains and muscle for each Radio Shack store as the Tandy 1000 TL (sometimes TL/2's) at the front counters were just terminals for POS & Inventory look ups from the Tandy 4000 sitting in the back room at the managers desk. Would love to see you revive this board.
And to think, I had a Tandy 5000MC in my possession, never realizing just how rare these early 386 Tandy's were. The 5000MC was truly not a generic clone, given it was built around a licensed IBM Microchannel bus. I found it on a temporarily abandoned floor of an office building I worked in 20 years ago (an insurance company HQ had moved to another location). There sitting on a lone desk, in a stripped-out office space, was a Tandy 5000MC (by 2004, this was a completely obsolete machine). A top-of-the-line Tandy that I had only ever seen catalogs and advertisements. I took it home, played with it for a bit (still had all the configured hardware and was setup to run Netware 3 - complete with the user DB still present, though all data volumes had been present on an external SCSI array that was missing).
Unfortunately, this was before retro conservation efforts had taken hold, so I couldn't find any configuration disk images, which meant I couldn't configure the system for, say, an MCA SoundBlaster. It was kind of stuck with the config it had, and I couldn't even pull the battery to change it without essentially rendering the machine useless. Eventually, deciding that it wasn't in the same category as my Mac's, Amiga's, SGI and Alpha machines I'd collected over time (especially as those were actually my machines that I'd either purchased or were given to me as they aged out), I decided to send it for recycling. I very much regret that choice now, as it might have been one of only a handful of surviving examples of a very rare, licensed MCA machine from Tandy. I hope someone still has one out there, as I'd hate to think the 5000MC was lost to time.
If it wasn't for the fact that I am on the other side of the country, I would be glad to take on that case restoration. I have done similar projects twice before. Once on a IBM 5170 that was solid but very rusty from a leaky battery. The other was an Amiga 2000 that somehow was actually in worse shape than this Tandy 4000.
12:56 As a mechanic and carpet layer I can tell a flood recovery when I see one.
Just stick it in some rice, it'll be fine.
@@mysticgreg I can tell you never worked around flood water, especially in a city where all the sanitary sewers emptied out into homes through the sewer.
@@MajorHavoc214Hm this will teach me for forgetting to put "/s" at the end...
@@MajorHavoc214 Please don't tell me you actually think rice works?
@@MajorHavoc214 Stand down. @mysticgreg was just making a joke.
You never heard of putting your phone in rice in order to absorb any moisture you may have in it if it gets submerged in water?
FYI: The Xenix boxes were in the catalog beacuse that's what ran Radio Shack's Point of Sale program ran on.
Adrian; I have used CLR, "Calcium Lime Rust" remover and a Camel Hair brush to remove corrosion from PC boards. The procedure is to brush full strength CLR onto the corrosion until it is removed. After removal, thoroughly wash the board in water then rinse in distilled water and finally with rubbing alcohol. Thoroughly air dry the entire board for at least 24 hours before use. Years ago I posted this procedure online and it was used by the USCG to recover some mission critical electronics.
Like others here, I also worked at Radio Shack from about 88 - 92. We had a 4000 in the back room with serial dumb terminals up front (and a Tandy labeled Okidata dot matrix printer!)
Is also bought a 3000 used.... It had been either a Unix POS or a NetWare server before I got it.
These machines (3000, 4000 & 5000) were as mentioned above business class machines. They even required labeling to say that it was a different class of electronics (for radio interference). And that is why no O/S was included and no video card by default. Many many of these machines were used as what ever Unix flavor host system instead of as a desktop user PC.
And the 5000 was a MicroChannel machine, to compete with the IBM PS/2 line.
But for sure, these machines were built to be business class servers and hosts, not desktop PCs at all.
I don't know if you noticed but the 386 chip has a double sigma on it. When Intel released the first batch of 386's there was a problem with some of the chips when performing 32-bit multiply operations. They went back and tested all of them. If the bug was present they stamped a "16-bit only" label on them. The good chips were stamped with the double sigma.
Good spot!
Seeing the pricing for these Tandy setups at that time, makes me realize just what a decent deal our Memorex/Telex 286-16mhz system was. We paid about $3500 for that system in late '88 but it came with an AMD made 286 running at 16mhz, a full 1MB RAM, a 20MB HDD, both 3.5" and 5.25" high density drives. Dot matrix printer, 265k VGA built in, 13" VGA monitor, Dos 3.3. We thought it was a crazy expensive setup back then, but again it seems it was a very decent cost for everything we got with our setup back then.
And then it loses 90% of its value within a few short years. I can see why the C64 was so much more popular than IBM compatibles in my country.
Anyways, yeah I think that's a decent deal at that point in time.
I bought one of those in late 90s at a thrift store and used for a while. Really liked and wish I still had.
A similar 12 Mhz AT would have cost $4000 with a 10 Mb hard disk just 18 months prior, with 640k of RAM and no printer, and a mono monitor. Crazy how quickly prices dropped in the late 80s up to the mid 90s.
Wow, that 4000 is in pretty sad shape! The "new for 88" thing along 1987 date codes on the machine is expected for those of us in the Tandy/Radio Shack world. Radio Shack catalog years were a lot like model years for cars; the 88 catalog came out between August/September of 1987, with most "new for 88" items being available when the catalog came out or shortly after (in 1987). Example: The Deluxe RS-232 Pak for the Color Computer was "New for 84" in the 1984 catalog, with the catalog indicating it would be available on 10/30/83. Love your videos!
"The new Oldsmobiles are in early this year!" ~ Elwood Blues (Blues Brothers) 🤣
You know it's going to be a good one when the angle grinder comes out :)
Yeah definitely something that's not used enough in retro computers LOL
David Murray is smiling ear to ear watching this.
Hi Adrian! I have restored a Packard Bell Legend 725DX like the Tandy 4000. It was a rust old computer. The case was sand blast, paint with Rust Stop then paint the computer case. I replaced power supply was bad (the electronic parts came apart). Good luck in finding a Tandy power supply. In a Zenith Data Systems power supply connector have 3 row of 5 pins. I convert a ATX power to Zenith PSU connector output (you may need to do same type of modify for Tandy PSU). *Caution - working on PSU have high voltage and very Danger.* The motherboard was repaired back into working order. Yes, it was lot of fun in restoring the computer back into working order.
I remember in highschool graduated in '87-'88, we had a small "lab" of 5-10 terminals hooked up to a Tandy running Xenix. This allowed us to do something with some terminal based business software. This could have been a 3000 or 4000, not sure.
My dad's 385 DX 25Mhz with Math Co Pro cost like $3500 in clone parts and I recall him saying it's the biggest checque he had ever written up to that point. That was about 1989
Wish you luck with this board! It will be challenging I guess. Once I had experience with old soviet DVK that was stored outside as well. It took almost four month to restore mainboard. There were plenty of split rows and shorts. Good luck!
I would like to see you troubleshoot this board. What I liked about this video, is your techniques and steps used. They are going to be very helpful to my work with old motherboards. So I feel that seeing and learning from your steps taken on a board like this are helpful in general. So with this one, I think the journey is more valuable than the destination. Even if it does not work in the end, it helps us evaluate when to carry on or send something to e-cycle. Once again, thanks for sharing your expertise.
This is a computer reset outdoor decade special! I've refurbished a Compaq all in one that was half as bad as this, but this thing, I don't think I'd even tackle this. Good on you for being that guy!
Thank you for this Adrian. Know that if nothing else you helped me by showing a large flat rust pannel so I can replicate the colours/Textures of that sort of thing in my Miniature painting hobby haha.
If Shango066 can get TVs in worse shape working again I think you should be able to get this machine going no problem!
Given the state of it and the fact that it's not a bespoke system, just having gotten good rom images is a huge success.
Love this project. Actually, I would love to see a full restore. possibly soak the bottom in vinegar. Get the rust off and paint with gray rust converter paint. Haven't seen to many 386 rebuilds. Usually 8088, 286, or 486. Plus, as you stated, really haven't seen too many Tandy 4000s.
For the chassis a product called Evaporust is great and non toxic. Can use it in a plastic tub etc vig enough for the time then once one pour it back in the jug(s) for more uses. Mine has lasted through many different items. Best to mechanically remove the loose flaky stuff first
I didn't know that Adrian left the basement.
I am really eager to see a follow up video about the KC 85 GDR computer!!
I love that the VRAM already says "FML" ... I know the feeling little buddy, I know the feeling 🤗
54:12 it's a socket for a Weitek 1167 coprocessor. The 80387 came out 1987 ut had difficulties to deliver. The Weitek's were significantly faster than the 287/387 as they didn't use the coprocessor interface but used memory mapped I/O to communicate with the CPU. CAD packets like AutoCAD and other system could make good use of the Weitek FPU's.
I love seeing this one! 1988 era is my Radio Shack era really. I had already had a few coco's and 1000's by then, and was programming the vga graphics adapter and other game related things. I worked for the company from 92 to 99 and still have a few older machines awaiting the day I try to boot them up again.
I had an ST-238R in worse condition (external, cosmetic) than that. Thought it was a goner.
It worked. Zero bad sectors. Still works to this day.
This is such a coincidence, a few years ago I bought a vintage exit sign on eBay, it arrived in identical packaging, and identical condition.
I fondly remember the Tandy 4000.
I at one time had two of them.
It was after the IBM AT was released and before the PS/2 line. As expensive as equipment was, I wanted to run some of my old cards, and at the time, it was just introduced. I bought the demo model at my local Tandy computer store, it was the first one they had.
I had upgraded to this machine from an IBM PC I had maxed out.
I ran the original Tandy DOS at first but eventually ran DOS 6.22 on it. I ran the early Windows 3.x versions and Windows 95 on it.
I had a CompuAdd edsi cache controller on it for extra fast hard drive performance and a large 300Meg hard drive. I had both EGA and VGA graphics cards on it.
I used it when in college for remote access to the university's dial-up and bbs systems of the time.
When I worked at Radio Shack these machines were used in the backroom as servers connecting with our point of sale computers at the counter. At night it would modem dial Ft. Worth, TX and it would upload sales data, inventory levels and our collection of names, addresses and phone numbers we gathered when ringing up customers that day. Imagine.... Its 1/2 past closing and after 15 busy redials I am stuck impatiently waiting for the slow upload to complete..and the loss of carrier. No Zmodem recovery. :(
Or worse, you open the store in the morning, rotate the backup tapes, only to find out the tape won't get initialized. Now, you've got to hand write your receipts and the POS terminals are held hostage at the mercy of one stinking backup tape. Happened to me multiple times when I was Shackeled.
I have a Tandy 4000 in my collection (in much better shape, I might add). The most irritating thing about it is the BIOS. I believe it needs to be accessed with a floppy disk, but that's not the crummy part. You MUST have one of the 40-something drive types listed or your hard drive won't work. The goal I had with my unit was to install Concurrent DOS on it. (I always try to do something different with every PC in my collection). Since I don't have one of the listed drives, I tried to install overlay software onto the hard drive I was using, but the system would just lock up on me. My solution was to install everything using a more modern computer and just transplant the drive. However, my attention has moved to other projects and my 4000 has since been waiting for a little love since then. Just part of the hobby when you have an extensive collection :)
please do a repair video on this fantastic machine! I do love your work, you inspire me to work on my own systems.
I've been a Ford dealer tech since 1994. When I started, our diagnostic system was called SBDS(Service Bay Diagnostic System). It was run on an HP Vectra based system(386-Dx 16). It ran on OS/2. I remember that it was a very responsive system at the time, but it quickly slowed down against 32 bit windows systems. It was outdated and replaced on our end by 2000.
The Tandy 3000 and 4000 were considered Business grade computers. Business grade computers were usually sold without the OS, because the company's tech would set up the computer with whatever OS that was being used. They were using IBM-PC compatible software, not Tandy software. They were commonly used on small networks for businesses that had custom, typically home-grown databases made with databases such as Paradox , DBASE and R:Base. I saw them regularly in smaller businesses that usually had less than 20 employees...
Great video, Adrian!
Yep! They also used the Tandy 4000s in the backroom in the stores as well; they had Xenix and ran the POS terminals on them. They were the first multi-user POS server that Tandy used before they moved to a custom built 486 (before they moved to the ACR and SCO in the late 90s when I left.) I have some marketing material on the 4000 they sent to franchises that I scanned that I can send to Adrian.
I used to work for Radio Shack from April 2001 to Thanksgiving week 2004. They were using IBM point-of-sale terminals running Windows 9x and ACRWin. The main server in the back office ran I think SCO Linux or Debian with ACRWin running on top of that in Wine🍷. The DDS3 tape backup system was a pita.
56:20 - dental tools, nice, I was able to get a bunch from my dentist pre-COVID. They work great for this kind of stuff.
I had a Tandy 1000EX with a 5 1/4" floppy, 256k RAM and no hard drive. I received it for Christmas in 1986. The 1000HX had a 3.5" floppy drive. I had some flashbacks when you were talking about it.
I hope someone takes you up on restoring that case. I suppose it can be left as-is, as long as the rust doesn't flake off and cause shorts!
I worked at Radio Shack during this period. Most stores only sold the 1000 series and CoCo. Some stores were specially designated computer centers which sold the 1300, 2000, 3000, 4000, 2 & 16, etc and targeted the business market. They had dedicated computer employees.
I found a Tandy 3000 HL at my recycle plant. I snagged it just because it said Tandy on it. When I tried to look it up on the net I found very little about it, basically one YT video. I restored it for fun, now it looks and works perfect and aside from the fact it's a bog standard 286 I enjoy it because it's so rare.
I believe that mystery video adapter you're looking at was what got referenced as "Tandy 16" graphics, which was very similar to EGA, but not compatible. You'll see it as a specific graphics option on some software, but it also worked with CGA for software that didn't.
Hello from Eugene! Cant wait for the follow-up! I've learned so much watching your movies over the years.
IIRC, the Tandy 5000 was Tandy's one and only MicroChannel Architecture system.
Reminds me of that 486 tower a customer brought in for repair. They reported it won't power up when dropped off. I got it on the bench and noted a very strong bug spray smell. I should have stopped there. Me and the other three techs stepped back in horror when opening the case, dozens of German cockroaches exploded from the machine. After getting the roaches removed, we found out the user had taken a plastic straw and sprayed at least one entire can of Raid through the floppy drive opening.
After carefully examining everything, we found burned out power supply transformer, floppy drive motor, cpu, battery, and multiple addon cards like the VGA card. Called the user back and they decided to get a new machine rather than rebuild. I can say this mess of a Tandy comes close to as bad.
You had many questions about the Tandy 4000 and why Tandy marketed it differently than the other desktops. Like why they made the operating system and option and charged extra for it if you wanted MSDos. When Tandy Computer Centers existed their employees were computer marketing representatives. And the market was mainly businesses. The Trs80 Model 16 and the Tandy 6000 were highly successful with the Z-80 handling the I/O and the MC68000 handling everything else. Xenix and 1mb of Ram could handle a multi user environment quite easily and the sales team could make a living off the commission from these sales. Also the nearest competitor was more than double the price. When the Model16 and the Tandy 6000 were discontinued there was no equivalent replacement. The Tandy 3000 with an Intel 80286 was supposed to be the replacement and equivalently equipped it was a DOG. Even upgraded to 4mb and at the time VERY expensive it still didn’t perform as well as the Model16/Tandy6000 with 1mb. The Tandy 4000 was supposed to be it, but by then it was too late. A little over a year later the Tandy Training and support centers were closed and two years later they closed the computer centers.
Tandy 3000 and Tandy 4000 were only sold at the larger computer center stores, not the regular smaller radio shack stores.
They didn't come with an OS because they were designed to run with several different ones and the user could choose. These were business machines, not personal home computers.
Ok well that boat anchor was obviously used as an actual boat anchor.
Not sure if you've noticed that many of these systems were classified by the FCC as Class A computing devices instead of Class B - as in they wanted them not being used in residential areas :) To respond to your comment about possibly getting the motherboard working - if we can locate a 4000 with working PALs and chips that someone can dump and verify for you to use for reference, I'd say that would be the best bet for you to even proceed. If you could get that clone IIE working, you can probably get this working, we have faith - but we have to be realistic and get you the right resources. Else, it'll be very frustrating.
I have a working example (well, I need to put a new hard drive in it). The irony is that it's the machine I've used to host my '90s Universal Device Programmer, which I'd need to use to dump the PLDs. But as it needs maintenance anyway, I could install the UDP in another machine and see if I can dump the PLDs, unless the security fuses are blown.
The documentation for the 4000 said something about using it for multiple terminals, so I think these more expensive systems were meant for businesses rather than consumers, so that explains both the lack of graphics cards, and the non-bundling of the operating system, as well as the cost differences between the systems. Seems like the nicer looking systems were intended for home use, where graphics and sound and cost were priorities.
Konan board was a real time hdd compression controller if I recall I remember my father having one for his Tandy 1000
LOVE the walk through of the catalog. I hope you have the chance to do more of those in the future! It would be funny to hear from someone who was on the marketing/product team for this lineup and explain the pricing/product stack choices they made. (Have we ever gotten a 'Hey! I worked on this! Here's the scoop...' comment in the channel yet?)
I love to see goners come back to life, even if just a little. To salvage something. Just fascinating. Plus the chance that it can be put back into service, at least a little... makes it worth it.
OS\2 is not a fail but has sold to synergy international and sels under name ECom Station and is todav 64 bit.
When you said you were going to take the thing outside despite it raining outside, my honest first thought was, "Well, what's a little more water going to honestly hurt?" I have to admit I was honestly just as shocked seeing the shape the machine was in when you first opened it, and I've seen some pretty rough rigs in the past.
The original Beroulli box external cartridge drive was floppy based, as in it didn't have a rigid HDD platter, it was an 8" floppy. It was called bernouli because of how the head floated the media, using the bernouli principle. This is from memory, so i might be wrong on details. But i am sure it was not a rigid platter system.
My guess that machine was left in an outdoor shed and found after the property was sold and the shed cleaned out. I had something similar happen when I purchased my house 16 years ago. There was an old shed on my property that was filled to the gills with all sorts or stuff. Unfortunately no electronics of any kind but loads of old windows, boxes and house parts that had been somewhat exposed to the elements for who knows how many years.
The best part is when you lift it up and the sand pours out. Loved it!
I haven't even watched the whole thing yet, but I laughed out loud at that bit. 😆
SO glad it wasn't an Apple! I worked at Radio Shack on and off between 1993-1996. This was gone by the time I worked there but there were still Tandy computers for a short period when I first started. Man I wish Radio Shack from the 80s-90s where still around!
What a ride this video was!
I'd like to note a bit pedantly that the firmware version seems to be "01.03.01", the leading zero was at the end of the line above in the hex-dump.
Historical aside - OS/2 was targeted - in spite of recommendation from everyone - for the 286. IBM absolutely insisted on making OS/2 for the 286. This meant it could not go back and forth between real and protected mode efficiently. It was meant to get into protected mode and stay there. The 386 had a hardware VDM (virtual DOS machine) that avoided this problem. Microsoft targeted early Windows for both the 286 and the 386 and used the advanced features of the latter. That is why Windows triumphed over OS/2. By the time IBM realized their mistake it was too late.
Microsoft gave away the Windows SDK for free while IBM charged for it. This caused an explosion of software for windows and almost nothing for OS/2. And of course Microsoft heavy and agile marketing vs IBM dinosaur moves. There was of course the NT backstab but that gave fruit a decade later.
19:55 you were talking about comparing the 386 to mainframe capabilities. I would think an average desktop or laptop computer produced today on a gigabit or even 100Mb network could outperform a Cray class computer made in the 70s-80s.
The phone in your hand is many times faster. The idea that I'm walking around with a supercomputer in my hand has always excited me.
It's not sand, its aluminum oxide from the corrosion.
We can probably see it better from the camera but it was a Lithium battery.
Yes, Xenix went away, but it was popular as it ran on a 286 as well.
The „387 processor socket“ could be actually for the Weitek 1167 math cpu board see marking „W1167“. This could be interesting if the boards works, go for it…
The Tandy 4000 Hurricane PC...lol. I used OS/2 until 1997 and it was apparent IBM wasn't going to support it anymore. I recall Windows was around $250 and I wasn't going to pay that. I ended up picking up a Slackware book that included version 3.5 on cd's. The 3" thick book (I still have it) cost me around $10 clearance rack at Borders. I still use Slackware to this day, I just installed version 15. I remember those Tandy 4000 at Radio Shack, I wanted one pretty bad because I thought I could run OS/2 at blazing speeds. Wow, what a blast from the past.
In this example, Dave's advice is the most advisable. Don't turn it on, take it apart.
The 3000 and 4000 series were sold thru the Tandy business stores. Radio Shack was base retail.
The copro socket has a w code silkscreened by it (w1167), the socket is actually for a weitek 1167 copro, not a 80387. A weitek copro was much faster than an 80287/8087 but far less supported as a weitek isn't x87 compatible but it was the only real option for very high performance floating point for early 386 systems as intel was late with the 80387. For best floating point performance and support you needed a 1167 and a 80287 installed at the same time
For the case putting it in a pool of rust remover acid would easily get rid of a lot of the rust leaving raw steel needing a protective paint coating. Without a power supply in good condition there would really be no point in trying to do this though.
Story time: in the mid 1990's as I was driving along an overpass I got a good view of the contents of a long 18 wheeler dump truck which was coming up an on ramp. It was almost full to the brim with an enormous jumble of old pc's. Possibly they were just cases or maybe they were more than that. Either which way it was a bit saddening. All true so far and here is where imagination kicks in. Perhaps they were dumped in the ocean and as they tumbled down the lifted bed of the dump truck they were saying to each other: "See you on the beach." One was soon after rescued by a lobster fisherman and was set aside in a fishing shed by the shore. Skip ahead 30 years and it eventually made its way to Adrian's workshop.
At around 1:55 your insulin pump tubing caught my eye. Looks like you're doing the old Tslim charge on the fly!
ROTFL! Good catch! Yep that's how I do it -- I have a little small charger I just keep in my pocket with a short MicroUSB cord.
@@adriansdigitalbasement2 I really gotta get a power bank for mine, though I've somehow mastered sleeping with it hooked up to a 10ft long USB cord. It's the only way I can get a full charge on it because I'm too ADHD to stay in one spot long enough otherwise!
18:15 The actual improvement in modern performance comes from pipelines for dedicated loads. The most major one back in the day was video encoding and decoding, and suddenly with it, a tiny phone can decode YT 4k stream. The modern CPUs add pipelines for stuff like AI and productivity applications, like video editing. Ofc, there's a finite amount of workloads that makes sense as a pipeline and quite often the point of that has more to do with improving efficiency (reducing power consumption) not necessarily the performance.
I've never heard Adrian sound so sad in a mail call before.
15 years ago i found a Commodore Pc-10 II exaclty like this at a Electronic Recycling dump, It had an array of rust and nests inside, fully restored it 6 months later using aggresive Metal Workshop grinding and rust priming, only thing i couldnt save was the HDD, so used a similiar type.
at 54:00, the square "math copro" is not for 387 but for w1167 (check the silkscreen on bottom left side of the socket)
In 1993-1994-1995 when I was in university the rule was ram was $50 per meg. Hard drive space was $1 per megabyte and this was after a massive crash in pricing. Hard drive space only a few years previous was almost impossibly expensive. When the 256 meg hard drives showed up... i remember those were $250‐$300 and THEY WERE SO CHEAP! Lol. And super fast compared to the giant brass 20 meg drives.
Heat helps with stuck fasteners by expansion. In similar metals, the space between the parts increases as the dimensions of the parts increase. With these dissimilar metals, the aluminum case would expand ~3x as much as the steel, so heat would help a lot. (The reverse case, with the higher coefficient of thermal expansion surrounded by the lower, requires chilling the inner piece if it's possible at all...)
a "double sigma" original 80386-16! I suppose since it was touted as being able to run 32-bit OSes like Xenix and OS/2 it had to be. It would be interesting to benchmark against a 386SX-16, trying to make the systems as close as possible (cache, RAM, video).
I don't hold out much hope for the motherboard. those PLCC chipset sockets look scary.
Tandy used XENIX as the backend for their POS systems in store at least through 97 (when I last managed a store).
I remember that drive card! We had a few around the house. *"Konan the Controller"*
I find the battery bit funny. "Probably alkaline", as it clearly says right on it "Lithium Battery". Sure, the lighting probably only let you see the part that had the reflective background, but on camera it was legible.
Also, the rusty sticker on top says not to expose contents to water, and it was clearly bathing for years.
Yea probably the reason it hadn't leaked out, Lithium is more stable
OOF! That poor computer. I think whoever sold this was once told (maybe by their child or something) "man, this thing is such a boat anchor!" and maybe took that statement a little too literally... Definitely deserves some carefully crafted feedback, and I would even go so far as an Item Not as Described claim. As Desi Arnaz would say "that seller has some 'splainin' to do!" I hope Adrian is able to revive this poor leviathan. I've seen machines in worse condition successfully brought back to life, so it IS possible. But man that is gonna be a massive amount of effort.
I think the extra FPU socket is a Weitek socket based on the fact that it was labelled W1167 :-)
This looked like a rebranded (or OEM) Chips and Technologies motherboard to me. They were a fairly successful motherboard manufacturer in the early 90s.
After seeing the price of these Tandy PCs, I now understand why my parents didn’t buy a computer for us until 1993. We were a lower middle class family back then and I’m guessing that even that cheaper Tandy 3000 was a month’s wages for my dad. I was only a kid back then and didn’t have any concept of money at the time. Looking back, I know now that the computer they bought in 1993 would have been a very cheap, outdated computer for the time (it was 25MHz 486DX, 4MB RAM, 170MB HD, 1x caddy loading CD, in 1993). It’s amazing how much the price of PCs dropped throughout the 90s.
"I'm a little lost for words here."
I got you. Try:" Seth! What have you done? I thought we were friends!" :p
Regarding those 87 math co-processors there was a Finnish Nokia brand PC that took either a 287 or a 387 and they overlaid the sockets so that the DIP row of the 287 just extended a few pins around the square 387 socket so that the middle pins were shared between the sockets. Pretty wild design :-)
I found an old computer with ATI's first video card and it had been outside in a field for at least 15 years. Except for the hard drive, it works!
The shirt is very fitting for the drives, but I think you got something going for the motherboard.
Phew! The battery didn't leak! That could have totally ruined it 😂
Would definitely love to see you do repairs on this board.
Hi Adrian, please do a follow up on this system and see if it can work. Fascinating stuff