There is more about GALs/PALs. As far as I know R and L is about the speed, the R version was originally to be used in high speed circuits, where L were a lot slower. However today the modern L are just as fast as R used to be and I think all you can buy new is L. But the complexity doesn't depend on R vs L, since all of the chips can work in simple, complex and registered mode. The most complicated to reverse engineer is the registered mode, since there the first pin becomes clock and internal states are then dependent on that. To reverse engineer such a chip is a NP-complete complexity and is very hard to solve with a brute force algorithm. The other modes are indeed simpler and can be reversed engineered by iteration through all the possible inputs. You just need to distinguish between a simple and a complex mode, which can differ in the set of I/O pins, but that can be detected by measuring resistance on the pins. Speaking of which, also there are differen versions of GALs with and without internal pull-ups. If I remember right the last letter B and D means with pull-ups, A and C are the ones without. But I'm not sure about the right notation.
I'm so glad the candy reviews keep coming and they go so well with retro computing. Although I feel like the Plexus is sitting like an unopened Christmas present. I'd love to see more videos of similar machines.
I love it that the C-64 lives on, and new chips continue to be developed for the machine. I have a friend with type I diabetes, who is doing well at age 85, so hang in there. If we believe it is possible, it is. If we don't believe, then it isn't.
Not just that but single chip clones of the 64 (The c64 dtv unit, that you can mod into being more or less a full c64.), the mini, maxi, c64 forever are all cool too.
@@stevenmann9769 DTV would be the closest as it's basically a hardware clone of a c64. and you can use real 1541 drives and such. I'm amazed even geos works with it. lol
For completeness....... MAY be protected. You are not required to burn the security fuse. Projects that I worked on way back in the day (dark ages), we did not burn the fuse and you could read the fuse map off of the part.
When I write my own chips, I typically don't burn the protection fuse. Though, there have been times when I have. But that was mostly down to lack of trust in specific individuals
Yep, it's a really hard thing for most folks to understand about diabetes. It doesn't mean that you have to avoid sugar like it's poison, it means that your body fails at self-regulation so you're having to drive that system manually. That means insulin when you're high, and candy or glucose drinks when you're low.
My best friend has type 2 diabetes, and he also loves pasta. So if he's going to eat pasta (high in carbs), he just adjusts his insulin pump slightly in advance of eating. He's gotten pretty good about estimating the amount of extra insulin he's going to need to process the extra sugar from the cards. He just makes sure to keep a close eye on it after eating, and adjusts as necessary.
Type 1 need to adjust glucose levels all the time and use insulin. I am type 2 which means I just avoid anything sweet or carb rich, I am never low sugar. It can be a rare treat in small doses. Thankfully I like steak and eggs more than any sweet stuff. ETA: I love Haribo Tangfastics and always have them in my car or pocket just to cure a dry mouth, but I only have 1 or 2 and not the whole packet.
The PAL for the FPU in the IBM 5170 actually stumped many cloners a couple of years. Even though it is a L version, you can use any outputs in your equations to create a latch. In addition, pins can be bidirectional. The other is a simple decoder and can be easily read out but this one requires more thought.
U130 is thankfully not too difficult to tackle. I recreated the logic in my open source ATX 286 project based on the 5170. Using the IBM manual for the 5170 which describes the I/O ports needed for controlling the coprocessor error/reset, which would automatically suggest needing a latch to store the error condition. The schematic of the COPAM PC-501 Turbo PC also shows a latch being used in their design though they also used PALs so this design is also not open.
@@rodneyknaapTechnical manuals/Programmer's guides can be such a blessing. While I haven't explored PLDs too much yet, that approach helped me in creating a circuit that is fully compatible with off the shelf parts (instead of a custom ASIC) for the Disney Sound Source without probing a single signal.
@@1337Shockwav3 Great work, recreating these closed designs is the only way to preserve history of these inventions. The creators will never leak the original designs which is a loss for computing history. I mean, look at ID Software who published their source code, because they are proud of their achievements and wanted to share their code with humanity. It's the same reason why I did the 5170 recreation project. Not only the IBM manual is a great source of technical research information, but also the Intel 286 datasheet and manual. Certain concepts described in the Intel book were also used by IBM themselves in their PC/AT. Other ideas and circuits by Intel inspired me as well in my work. These days Intel gets a lot of negative publicity, however I must compliment Intel on the excellent 80286 hardware reference manual, it contained everything I used to recreate the 82284 and 82288 controllers from scratch in my System controller CPLD design. Everyone is always bashing the 286 processor to be a bad design etc, but the point most people are missing is actually the historic importance of this Intel CPU for driving the PC evolution further. The 286 was essential and important for enabling the 16 bit PC/AT technology to become reality.
50:57 ANDs are usually represented as multiplication and ORs as additions. So, 0 AND 1 is 0 * 1 which results in 0. Similarly, 0 OR 1 is 0 + 1 resulting in 1. When using variables, multiplication symbol can be omitted (A B C D = A * B * C * D)
Adrian, the note reads: Adrian, As discussed via Patreon chat, I'm enclosing a new SID replacement, one piece for use with PWM output, the other one for use with the also included DAC. I would love to see it reviewed on your channel similar to the ARMSID review. I'm also including two Batman style riddles - hope you enjoy them. The reward is either for successfully solving the riddles or as a disclosure if you consider the riddles too silly. Kind regards, Johann.
The individually wrapped big fruit candy reminded me of the candy made in Washington state - The famous fruit and nut confections of Cashmere, Washington have been made the same way since 1921! The blossom-fresh flavor of crisp Washington apples, the tangy goodness of ripe apricots, and the nutty richness of crunchy walnuts have made their namesake Aplets & Cotlets their top seller.
Hi Adrian, if you search for UPC county codes and check the first three numbers of the barcode that should tell you where it was manufactured, or possibly, where is was packaged. The first pack of Haribos appears to be from Germany.
The first numbers of the EAN barcode used in Europe indicate the country where the barcode is registered. They do not reveal the country of manufacture or packaging.
The full length board you hold up looks a lot like an early single board computer often used in Industrial computers. These are designed to interface with a passive main boards which are often larger than 7 slots. I've seen examples with 8/16 isa, Vesa Local, Micro Channel and PCI BUS interfaces. The largest i worked with was 21 slots + the CPU board for a phone switch which supported 42 T1 circuits on DiaLogic D21/D boards. To break that out fully, each T1 supports 23 voice lines and a 9600baud control channel. So the switch maxed out at 966 simultanious concurent conversations.
10:35 seriously Adrian? The translation: As discussed via Patreon chat, I'm enclosing a new SID replacement, one piece for use with PWN output, the other for the also included DAC. I would love to see it reviewed in your channel similar to the ARMSID review. I'm also including the Batman style riddle - hope you enjoy them. The reward is either for successfully solving the riddle or as a disclosure if you find the riddle too silly.
Would be hillarious to have a C64 with reverse engineered software defined cards replacing ALL of the chips. The only original parts being the discrete parts like capacitors, resistor packs, and analog devices (like the 7805 and 7812 voltage regulators). It would be funny, because i'm pretty sure you could emulate the entire C64 on one rasberry pi.
@@tommyovesen That's true for a bool statement. However in C a | is a *bitwise OR* and & is a *bitwise AND*. See en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitwise_operations_in_C for more :)
@@SirWolf404 Yes I know. But # is not an operator in any way in C or any other language I know. I thought that was he meant. But I see I misunderstood it :)
Some really handy stuff there, Adrian :) - Get well / better, soon! As to the GAL equations - might be time to break out the digital design text(s) again, if you still have them -> have a refresher on simplifying the boolean equations. - Just gone down a similar rabbit-hole after playing "Turing Complete" on the PC and not being best pleased with a couple of items I've hacked together, rofl.
Great video! I know the feeling about diabeties - I have one of those sensors on my arm which is used in conjunction with a smart phone but I still have the manual injections. My nurse tells me to carry candy in case of lows too.
From what I remember back in late '90 when I was in college studying electrical engineering '+' = OR, '.' = AND. There is obvious many others but search for "logic function notation". As a short hand, when two letters follow each other without anything in between is also AND. So AB + CD => (A&&B) || (C&&D). The functional notation pdf from york university shows that on page 12
I have quite a lot of these Chinese Pico boards. Some of them, even if they seem completely the same size, they are not always directly pin compatible. Mostly because Chinese tried to export as many GPIO pins as possible. That gives you extra couple of pins but makes the thing not entirely compatible. But having decent USB port is worth it.
Logic Friday was outputting Boolean Algerbra from the Logic Gates. I remember doing this by hand way back in college. At the time, we learned that it could be a way of simplifying circuits. I didn't continue on with my studies to learn how to program pals or gals, unfortunately.
That python script in a few seconds likely automates weeks of manual work done by reverse engineers in the 80s who needed to RE the PALs in the 5160. These days we have so much computing power at our fingertips it is unbelievable.
Not really. The python script is super slow, any C program running on an 8088 is faster. The methods to turn a truth table into equations, and then simplyfying them is as old as boolean algebra.
If I remember my IT-lessons from mid 1980s correctly, "AND" gates are written as a multiplication and "OR" gates are written as an addition in the formulas.
Hi Adrian, I looked at Johan's letter and I think this is what it said... I know you had some difficulty with his bad penmanship but I confident this is 99% accurate except for the word disclosure in brackets: "as discussed via Patreon chat, I'm enclosing a new SID replacement, one piece for use with PWM output, the other one for use with the also included DAC. I would love to see it reviewed on your channel similar to the ARMSID review. I'm also includiung two Batman style riddle, - love you enjoying them. The reward is either for successfully solving the riddle or as a [disclosure] if you consider the riddle too silly. Kind regards, Johan [Yoh-han]"
That's what I read from it too and it didn't seem all that difficult to me? I have atrocious handwriting though so I'm used to deciphering my own chicken-scratch. I also feel like Adrian was being specifically obstinate about not wanting to solve any riddles.
any combinatorial logic can be replaced with an eeprom. (provided there are enough pins and the eeprom is large enough.) one of the interesting things that I remember from the nand2tetris course.
This is true, and i have said the same in the past. But things like PAL, GAL, and FPGA's are more advanced than an EEPROM. You can do much more with one of those devices than you can with an EEPROM. For many years i assumed PALS and GALS were just PROMS or EEPROMS, but they are more complex than that. Plenty of youtube vids that will describe the differences and why you should chose the correct device. FPGA's completely blew my mind with how capable they are.
A memory device can implement combinatorial logic but there is an important caveat. All of the outputs may glitch when any input changes. For circuits such as address decoders this is not a problem. For circuits such as clock generators they can be problematic.
@@oledave2540 yep nothing switches infinitely fast, so as waveforms propagate through the device, you are kind of at the mercy of the silicon until things stabilize. Gotta read those datasheets.
@@naikrovek The glitches I have attempted to describe are in addition to any timing constraints and are a result of memory device the architecture. HalfBurntToast has a video called EEPROM Traps! that illustrates the issue better than I can describe it.
Fun little riddle there for identifying where those ICs are intended, I probably wouldn't have gotten it either, I'm not that good at de-riddling things... :P
Digital by Helmut Neemann does the truth table stuff & can generate state machines too. it's interesting that guy took a different path to "solving" and reducing a net cuz mame has reverse engineering tools & jedutil. find any datasheet about a version of the 16V8 and it'll have a gate diagram & explain what 'registered' mode is. a pal is mostly just a crossbar into multi input OR / AND gates for summing, registered mode basically turns them into a register that can do stuff with flip flops on the outputs that feed back into the inputs. the clock and that stored state makes simplifying & understanding registered pals much more complicated. taking the huge truth table and reducing it back to a couple gates is what the original pal programming software did to generate the bit file for the gal in the first place. it's actually really neat. there's all sorts of problems you can express as a larger set of gates, for understanding the problem or other contrived reasons and the software can tell you the least amount of elements of a given type and arrangement that can embody it, or if it can't, and why
As a Type 2 its harder for me to go low than it is for you Type 1s but yeah I eat the odd sweet thing here and there (Granted I've gone from 9;4 A1C at diagnosis to 5.2 on Diet and exercise alone over the past 3 years, In fact I dropped to 5.2 in 6 months and have hung there since, I also dropped from 200lbs to 160) But Yeah you only start realizing this kind of stuff about Blood Glucose and the control of it once you start hanging around with Diabetics after becomming one. (Thanks Grandpa hahaha)
Boolean algebra can be interpreted as "sums" and "products". Just take a look at how "products" work if you only input 0 or 1. 0*0 = 0, 0*1 = 0, 1*0 = 0 and 1*1=1, so multiplying values of one and zero is the same thing as we know as boolean and. That's why a "product" of boolean values is just the logic and of those values. For sums, the equality is not as straightforward, as we have 0+0=0, 0+1=1, 1+0=1 but 1+1=2. So we need to know that everything except 0 is to be interpreted as true, and is this case, summing two boolean values is equal to performing a logical or. The syntax used by "Logic Friday" is the standard mathematical notation for formulas. If there is no operator in between two terms, this is implicitly a product. If there is a plus, it is a sum. Normal precedence rules apply: products have higher priority as sums, so "A B + C D" is "(A && B) || (C && D)" in C syntax, including the optional parenthesis. The standard PLD syntax uses "&" for and, and "#" for or. The way classic PALs work is that you write a couple of product terms, that is terms that do *only* include AND operations, but no OR operations. The amount of operands in these product terms is unlimited. so having something like "p13 = p1 & p2 & /p3 & p5 & p6 & p7 & /p8 & p9" is a single product, consisting of 8 factors. You do not have to include every input in a product term. An input not included in a product term means that input does not apply the result of the product term. If you include "p1" and "/p1" in the product term (which is possible on the lowest level of PAL programming, but your PLD parser might reject it anyway), the term is obviously false for every possible input, because "p1" and "/p1" can't be true at the same time. Basically, a product term is a pattern consisting of "must be true", "must be false" and "don't care" on the input bits. Obviously, only very simple logic functions can be expressed as a single product. That's why PAL chips allows to take the sum of up to 7 of those products to calculate a single output. This is the limit mentioned in the documentation. Furthermore, you should be aware that the OR calculation over the (up to) 7 inputs is actually implemented as NOR calculation. The output will be *low* of any of the product terms is true. So the equation for the an output pin is a list of up to 7 patterns, and if the input matches any of those patterns, the output will be low, otherwise it will be high. This is the reason why the equations all start with "!pinX = ..." to signify that you write down the condition in which the output pin is supposed to be low. More modern programmable logic chips are more flexible, for example they often have an optional inverter for each output pin, so you can choose whether your sum of products is to determine the cases in which the output is low (as in classic PALs), or the sum of products describes the list of patterns in which the output is high. There is no direct way in PALs to have equations of any other form than "sum of products", so factoring out common parts to save product terms is not possible. For example, if you want to implement !pin12 = (A # B) & (C # D) & (E # F), this is !pin12 = (A & C & E) # (A & C & F) # (A & D & E) # ..., which is a sum of 8 product terms (each product term having 3 factors). Assuming we don't have a GAL that can invert outputs and use boolean algebra magic (de Morgan rules) to swap products and sums, this equation is not directly programmable into a PAL chip - but there is one trick you can pull of: There are a couple of input pins and a couple of I/O pins. There are no dedicated output pins. If you set OE=0 for an I/O pin, it becomes an input pin. If you set OE=1, it becomes an output pin, but you can also use a single product term as OE to implement a tri-state pin. No matter how you set OE, the level at the I/O pin can be included in equations. This means you can feed back the output calculated from an (inverted) sum of 7 products back into the product terms for other pins. If you have spare I/O pins, you can use them to feed back intermediate results. For example, the !pin12 example can be implemented as "!pin13 = A # B; !pin14 = C # D; !pin15 = E # F; !pin 12 = !pin13 & !pin14 & !pin15". This obviously takes twice the propagation delay through the chip, and uses three output pins, which is obviously not desireable in many cases, but it shows how you can optimize PAL equations by extracting common subexpressions. The PAL-as-EPROM reader is unable to measure the propagation delay, which means that the analysis scripts have no idea what signals include feedback from I/O pins, so they can't pull off that trick automatically safely.
In boolean algebra, logic AND works just like mathematical multiplication. Therefore, the symbol is also the multiplication symbol, or, just like ordinary algebra, no sign means AND. Similarly, logic OR works just like mathematical addition, so its symbol is the plus sign. Using boolean algebra, you can rearrange the equations by hand using exactly the same rules as ordinary algebra. There are some additional rules that can be used, called De Morgan's laws. These laws help you convert AND to OR or vice versa. Useful if you only have a bucket full of NAND gates. In fact, it is possible to implement any logic equation using only NAND gates, or, similarly, only NOR gates.
What i found fascinating when i started looking into it, is that a lot of DTL (diode transistor logic) was basically a lot of NOR gates. Because OR gates are very easy to implement with diodes, and the transistor output inverts, so it's crazy easy to make NOR gates with early integrated circuits. IIRC, the Apollo program computer on the lander was based on early integrated circuits, and was built either mainly or exclusively with 3 input NOR gates. Copied from Wikipedia: The Apollo Guidance Computer (AGC) used integrated circuits (ICs) from Fairchild Semiconductor: Block I: Used 4,100 Fairchild Type G NOR gates Block II: Used about 2,800 ICs, mostly Fairchild's 9915 dual 3-input NOR gates Take THAT bad memory! LOL!
As far as I know, PALs with letter V have protection, those with letter L do not have protection. I am restoring a multifunction card, because I need the video part, and someone removed a PAL from it. I am waiting for a friend in Vogons who has one of those cards and should read the PAL and send me the data so I can replicate it and finish the restoration. Its a unprotected PAL. But He said he tried with a Dataman but came empty, and maybe will try with a Arduino project for reading pal , bruteforce.
Hi Adrian, If you happen to see this, I came across a song by "Weird Al" Yankovic and it's called "It's All About The Pentiums". It came up as a suggestion after I watched something else. I gave it a click and listened to it, and it made me laugh. I guess the song is now kinda retro as it was released in 1999 during the hype of the Pentium 2 and Pentium 3, and just before the release of the Pentium 4's. It's got proper subtitles so you can easily follow along with the lyrics.
Yes, Microchip still manufactures them as the ATF16V8C available in DIP. Of course there are thousands of classic ones available on eBay as new old stock.
The contact details of the Italian national organization are provided because the bag is intended for the Italian market with texts in Italian. Haribo has production facilities in several European countries, and the same product can be manufactured in multiple factories. Based on the batch code, they can determine where this specific product was made.
The note sad it had a "Batman riddle", so basically a riddler riddle for you to solve, i'm guessing. And considering the little envelopes had "To the Blackman" written on them, i'm guessing it was a play on your last name converted into a "batman" name. But yeah, reading cursive is something i am not very good at either. There was quite a bit of guessing and interpolation of meaning from the words i could make out. ^-^
You don't need ORs: putting NOT on all inputs and on the output of an AND gate you have an OR gate (DeMorgan). I think is what is done there. It is a little weird because it is common to simplify everything to a sum of products that is easier to implement and deduce.
@mikebarushok5361 No question on that, as I said, but even with nor, nand or xors you can do the sum of products that is the simpler way to implement specialty for pals, gals, cplds as it can be easily changed. And in fact all more used simplification ways end with a sum of products like Karnaugh maps
How big a problem is this "R" PAL/GAL thing, I mean coming across ones with state as opposed to straight shots? Also, what are the most common usage of such chips? I've got the inklings of a possible solve! Edit: Also, what range of capacity? How much state are we talkng?
On the dual SID topic, don't you have an Evo board? Pop a couple of real SIDs in there and listen to some tracks. Even single SID tunes sound awesome when you pair a 6581 and 8580 and put them both on D400.
31:55 If you have 130 at the end 2105 means you was born in 1975, so in 2062 you would have 87 not 90. Am I right? I think you blood sugar is low today. You broke the cypher: but subtracted it wrong! It is 87.
@ Yeah. like they did to Marques Brownlee who filmed himself briefly accelerating his Lamborghini on a road with a 35mph speed limit. Based on mean spirited interpretation of the footage, they excoriated him for doing 97mph in a school zone based on a "drive slow" sign they saw on an intersecting road, claiming he could have killed children. Some went as far as ratting him out to the NJ police who said they couldn't do anything about it. A careful watch of the footage using basic logic and math proves how shockingly stupid they are. School zones are have 15-20mph speed limits, not 35mph. The Lamborghini speedometer is in khm, not mpg. He floored it only after he passed the first yellow sign children sign and 35mph speed limit sign. He only peaked at 97khm for a split second during his two second acceleration. The road was empty with no sidewalks or homes. It was merely a backroad.
![Adrian's Digital Basement ][](http://yt3.ggpht.com/ytc/AIdro_k7CrQRe71qN6c0Ua7A1P_I8KkxjqLa70u0zYeCvdvnKw=s48-c-k-c0x00ffffff-no-rj)
![0096 Giving my Apple ][+ multiple personalities with ROMX+](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/9EDtnLRuFuU/mqdefault.jpg)
![0096 Giving my Apple ][+ multiple personalities with ROMX+](/img/tr.png)
There is more about GALs/PALs. As far as I know R and L is about the speed, the R version was originally to be used in high speed circuits, where L were a lot slower. However today the modern L are just as fast as R used to be and I think all you can buy new is L. But the complexity doesn't depend on R vs L, since all of the chips can work in simple, complex and registered mode. The most complicated to reverse engineer is the registered mode, since there the first pin becomes clock and internal states are then dependent on that. To reverse engineer such a chip is a NP-complete complexity and is very hard to solve with a brute force algorithm. The other modes are indeed simpler and can be reversed engineered by iteration through all the possible inputs. You just need to distinguish between a simple and a complex mode, which can differ in the set of I/O pins, but that can be detected by measuring resistance on the pins. Speaking of which, also there are differen versions of GALs with and without internal pull-ups. If I remember right the last letter B and D means with pull-ups, A and C are the ones without. But I'm not sure about the right notation.
I'm so glad the candy reviews keep coming and they go so well with retro computing. Although I feel like the Plexus is sitting like an unopened Christmas present. I'd love to see more videos of similar machines.
I love it that the C-64 lives on, and new chips continue to be developed for the machine.
I have a friend with type I diabetes, who is doing well at age 85, so hang in there. If we believe it is possible, it is. If we don't believe, then it isn't.
Not just that but single chip clones of the 64 (The c64 dtv unit, that you can mod into being more or less a full c64.), the mini, maxi, c64 forever are all cool too.
@@maxxdahl6062 I prefer original hardware where possible but it is great that these are around.
@@stevenmann9769 DTV would be the closest as it's basically a hardware clone of a c64. and you can use real 1541 drives and such. I'm amazed even geos works with it. lol
Age would be U87 and U130. Neat riddle
a pitty Adrien didn't get the Batman/Blackman/Riddler theme 😢
For completeness....... MAY be protected. You are not required to burn the security fuse. Projects that I worked on way back in the day (dark ages), we did not burn the fuse and you could read the fuse map off of the part.
As it should have always had been done. Good that you had integrity :-)
When I write my own chips, I typically don't burn the protection fuse. Though, there have been times when I have.
But that was mostly down to lack of trust in specific individuals
Yep, it's a really hard thing for most folks to understand about diabetes. It doesn't mean that you have to avoid sugar like it's poison, it means that your body fails at self-regulation so you're having to drive that system manually. That means insulin when you're high, and candy or glucose drinks when you're low.
My best friend has type 2 diabetes, and he also loves pasta. So if he's going to eat pasta (high in carbs), he just adjusts his insulin pump slightly in advance of eating. He's gotten pretty good about estimating the amount of extra insulin he's going to need to process the extra sugar from the cards. He just makes sure to keep a close eye on it after eating, and adjusts as necessary.
Type 1 need to adjust glucose levels all the time and use insulin. I am type 2 which means I just avoid anything sweet or carb rich, I am never low sugar. It can be a rare treat in small doses. Thankfully I like steak and eggs more than any sweet stuff.
ETA: I love Haribo Tangfastics and always have them in my car or pocket just to cure a dry mouth, but I only have 1 or 2 and not the whole packet.
i get really happy when i see a new video by you
The PAL for the FPU in the IBM 5170 actually stumped many cloners a couple of years. Even though it is a L version, you can use any outputs in your equations to create a latch. In addition, pins can be bidirectional. The other is a simple decoder and can be easily read out but this one requires more thought.
U130 is thankfully not too difficult to tackle. I recreated the logic in my open source ATX 286 project based on the 5170. Using the IBM manual for the 5170 which describes the I/O ports needed for controlling the coprocessor error/reset, which would automatically suggest needing a latch to store the error condition. The schematic of the COPAM PC-501 Turbo PC also shows a latch being used in their design though they also used PALs so this design is also not open.
@@rodneyknaapTechnical manuals/Programmer's guides can be such a blessing. While I haven't explored PLDs too much yet, that approach helped me in creating a circuit that is fully compatible with off the shelf parts (instead of a custom ASIC) for the Disney Sound Source without probing a single signal.
@@1337Shockwav3 Great work, recreating these closed designs is the only way to preserve history of these inventions. The creators will never leak the original designs which is a loss for computing history. I mean, look at ID Software who published their source code, because they are proud of their achievements and wanted to share their code with humanity. It's the same reason why I did the 5170 recreation project. Not only the IBM manual is a great source of technical research information, but also the Intel 286 datasheet and manual. Certain concepts described in the Intel book were also used by IBM themselves in their PC/AT. Other ideas and circuits by Intel inspired me as well in my work. These days Intel gets a lot of negative publicity, however I must compliment Intel on the excellent 80286 hardware reference manual, it contained everything I used to recreate the 82284 and 82288 controllers from scratch in my System controller CPLD design. Everyone is always bashing the 286 processor to be a bad design etc, but the point most people are missing is actually the historic importance of this Intel CPU for driving the PC evolution further. The 286 was essential and important for enabling the 16 bit PC/AT technology to become reality.
25:40 adrian, we're just living through the singularity. wouldn't be too surprised when we're still watching you in a hundred years
I had stereo SIDs on my C64 back in the 80s. It was so cool to show off.
That was a big flex in the 80
Logic Friday looks way cool. Thanks for showing/mentioning it.
Did you know? HARIBO stands for HAns RIgel BOnn. Sweet greetings from Bonn Germany!
50:57 ANDs are usually represented as multiplication and ORs as additions. So, 0 AND 1 is 0 * 1 which results in 0. Similarly, 0 OR 1 is 0 + 1 resulting in 1. When using variables, multiplication symbol can be omitted (A B C D = A * B * C * D)
Logic Friday is the program I never knew I needed, or existed!
My godmother's mother was a type 1 diabetic and she lived to the age of 93, so you never know...
Adrian, the note reads:
Adrian,
As discussed via Patreon chat, I'm enclosing a new SID replacement, one piece for use with PWM output, the other one for use with the also included DAC. I would love to see it reviewed on your channel similar to the ARMSID review.
I'm also including two Batman style riddles - hope you enjoy them. The reward is either for successfully solving the riddles or as a disclosure if you consider the riddles too silly.
Kind regards,
Johann.
The individually wrapped big fruit candy reminded me of the candy made in Washington state - The famous fruit and nut confections of Cashmere, Washington have been made the same way since 1921! The blossom-fresh flavor of crisp Washington apples, the tangy goodness of ripe apricots, and the nutty richness of crunchy walnuts have made their namesake Aplets & Cotlets their top seller.
Hi Adrian, if you search for UPC county codes and check the first three numbers of the barcode that should tell you where it was manufactured, or possibly, where is was packaged. The first pack of Haribos appears to be from Germany.
The first numbers of the EAN barcode used in Europe indicate the country where the barcode is registered. They do not reveal the country of manufacture or packaging.
yay another video! Thanks so much for your content Adrian. BTW I love the C64 repair videos.
Super mini mail call....56 minutes... not that I am complaining 🤣🤣
56 minutes is why it's super! 😂😂😂
Imagine what a maxi mail call would be like.
Adrian, does the SIDKICK support the paddle input?
The full length board you hold up looks a lot like an early single board computer often used in Industrial computers. These are designed to interface with a passive main boards which are often larger than 7 slots. I've seen examples with 8/16 isa, Vesa Local, Micro Channel and PCI BUS interfaces. The largest i worked with was 21 slots + the CPU board for a phone switch which supported 42 T1 circuits on DiaLogic D21/D boards.
To break that out fully, each T1 supports 23 voice lines and a 9600baud control channel. So the switch maxed out at 966 simultanious concurent conversations.
10:35 seriously Adrian? The translation:
As discussed via Patreon chat, I'm enclosing a new SID replacement, one piece for use with PWN output, the other for the also included DAC. I would love to see it reviewed in your channel similar to the ARMSID review.
I'm also including the Batman style riddle - hope you enjoy them.
The reward is either for successfully solving the riddle or as a disclosure if you find the riddle too silly.
That riddle was a very well thought idea of Johann
The github shows u130 and u87 as the two chips the project was made for!
And 2062-1975 =87 not 78
Dude this is making my mouth water, i can taste them from here
I know a type1 diabetic thats 92 years old
Would be hillarious to have a C64 with reverse engineered software defined cards replacing ALL of the chips. The only original parts being the discrete parts like capacitors, resistor packs, and analog devices (like the 7805 and 7812 voltage regulators). It would be funny, because i'm pretty sure you could emulate the entire C64 on one rasberry pi.
@43:57 The # means OR in the equations.
(Like in 'C' language ' | ')
No. OR is usually ||
@@tommyovesen That's true for a bool statement. However in C a | is a *bitwise OR* and & is a *bitwise AND*. See en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitwise_operations_in_C for more :)
@@SirWolf404 Yes I know. But # is not an operator in any way in C or any other language I know. I thought that was he meant. But I see I misunderstood it :)
But I see now I misunderstood the comment, so you are correct.
Some really handy stuff there, Adrian :) - Get well / better, soon!
As to the GAL equations - might be time to break out the digital design text(s) again, if you still have them -> have a refresher on simplifying the boolean equations.
- Just gone down a similar rabbit-hole after playing "Turing Complete" on the PC and not being best pleased with a couple of items I've hacked together, rofl.
About that "milky stuff". It's called PLAIN SUGAR ;) Really healthy.
Great video! I know the feeling about diabeties - I have one of those sensors on my arm which is used in conjunction with a smart phone but I still have the manual injections. My nurse tells me to carry candy in case of lows too.
From what I remember back in late '90 when I was in college studying electrical engineering '+' = OR, '.' = AND. There is obvious many others but search for "logic function notation". As a short hand, when two letters follow each other without anything in between is also AND. So AB + CD => (A&&B) || (C&&D). The functional notation pdf from york university shows that on page 12
I have quite a lot of these Chinese Pico boards. Some of them, even if they seem completely the same size, they are not always directly pin compatible. Mostly because Chinese tried to export as many GPIO pins as possible. That gives you extra couple of pins but makes the thing not entirely compatible. But having decent USB port is worth it.
Logic Friday was outputting Boolean Algerbra from the Logic Gates. I remember doing this by hand way back in college. At the time, we learned that it could be a way of simplifying circuits. I didn't continue on with my studies to learn how to program pals or gals, unfortunately.
Great Video Adrian !!
That python script in a few seconds likely automates weeks of manual work done by reverse engineers in the 80s who needed to RE the PALs in the 5160. These days we have so much computing power at our fingertips it is unbelievable.
Not really. The python script is super slow, any C program running on an 8088 is faster. The methods to turn a truth table into equations, and then simplyfying them is as old as boolean algebra.
Love to see Adrian doing a little dance!
If I remember my IT-lessons from mid 1980s correctly, "AND" gates are written as a multiplication and "OR" gates are written as an addition in the formulas.
Hi Adrian, I looked at Johan's letter and I think this is what it said... I know you had some difficulty with his bad penmanship but I confident this is 99% accurate except for the word disclosure in brackets:
"as discussed via Patreon chat, I'm enclosing a new SID replacement, one piece for use with PWM output, the other one for use with the also included DAC. I would love to see it reviewed on your channel similar to the ARMSID review.
I'm also includiung two Batman style riddle, - love you enjoying them. The reward is either for successfully solving the riddle or as a [disclosure] if you consider the riddle too silly.
Kind regards,
Johan [Yoh-han]"
That's what I read from it too and it didn't seem all that difficult to me? I have atrocious handwriting though so I'm used to deciphering my own chicken-scratch.
I also feel like Adrian was being specifically obstinate about not wanting to solve any riddles.
any combinatorial logic can be replaced with an eeprom. (provided there are enough pins and the eeprom is large enough.) one of the interesting things that I remember from the nand2tetris course.
This is true, and i have said the same in the past. But things like PAL, GAL, and FPGA's are more advanced than an EEPROM. You can do much more with one of those devices than you can with an EEPROM. For many years i assumed PALS and GALS were just PROMS or EEPROMS, but they are more complex than that.
Plenty of youtube vids that will describe the differences and why you should chose the correct device. FPGA's completely blew my mind with how capable they are.
A memory device can implement combinatorial logic but there is an important caveat. All of the outputs may glitch when any input changes. For circuits such as address decoders this is not a problem. For circuits such as clock generators they can be problematic.
@@jeromethiel4323 yep, I know.
@@oledave2540 yep nothing switches infinitely fast, so as waveforms propagate through the device, you are kind of at the mercy of the silicon until things stabilize. Gotta read those datasheets.
@@naikrovek The glitches I have attempted to describe are in addition to any timing constraints and are a result of memory device the architecture.
HalfBurntToast has a video called EEPROM Traps! that illustrates the issue better than I can describe it.
The Big Frut stuff has 22% fruit juice content. I really like them as well.
You just had fruittella with the Olivetti smmc!
I just have to go shopping some candy before seeing this episode. :)
AND is like multiplying, OR is like adding. '+' for OR, '*', or adjacent for AND.
those pixel candy's look good!
Fun little riddle there for identifying where those ICs are intended, I probably wouldn't have gotten it either, I'm not that good at de-riddling things... :P
Digital by Helmut Neemann does the truth table stuff & can generate state machines too. it's interesting that guy took a different path to "solving" and reducing a net cuz mame has reverse engineering tools & jedutil. find any datasheet about a version of the 16V8 and it'll have a gate diagram & explain what 'registered' mode is. a pal is mostly just a crossbar into multi input OR / AND gates for summing, registered mode basically turns them into a register that can do stuff with flip flops on the outputs that feed back into the inputs. the clock and that stored state makes simplifying & understanding registered pals much more complicated. taking the huge truth table and reducing it back to a couple gates is what the original pal programming software did to generate the bit file for the gal in the first place. it's actually really neat. there's all sorts of problems you can express as a larger set of gates, for understanding the problem or other contrived reasons and the software can tell you the least amount of elements of a given type and arrangement that can embody it, or if it can't, and why
Get well and thanx for an other adventure
6:15 Can you link to information about red #5? All I can find is stuff about red #40, which seems to be about as dangerous as peanuts.
50:07 I've used Logisim Evolution for similar things. It may be slightly more advanced, too.
Thanks for the video.
So will you try those ICs in an AT? Maybe they do soemething special or unexpected?
Imagine the alternate timeline if we sent back Adrian's Ziff64 to Commodore around 1984 🤔
I think that DAC module is also being used on the PicoMEM project for Ad Lib (and others) support?
We always called the PAL equations "terms."
I love blood orange flavored things!
As a Type 2 its harder for me to go low than it is for you Type 1s but yeah I eat the odd sweet thing here and there (Granted I've gone from 9;4 A1C at diagnosis to 5.2 on Diet and exercise alone over the past 3 years, In fact I dropped to 5.2 in 6 months and have hung there since, I also dropped from 200lbs to 160)
But Yeah you only start realizing this kind of stuff about Blood Glucose and the control of it once you start hanging around with Diabetics after becomming one.
(Thanks Grandpa hahaha)
Can the Logic Friday approach be able to be used to create new versions of the Apple iie IAU chip?
I guess "Balla-stix" sort of means Ballistics? Hence the explosion-y type grafix on the packet... (I could be wrong tho' ) . :)
Boolean algebra can be interpreted as "sums" and "products". Just take a look at how "products" work if you only input 0 or 1. 0*0 = 0, 0*1 = 0, 1*0 = 0 and 1*1=1, so multiplying values of one and zero is the same thing as we know as boolean and. That's why a "product" of boolean values is just the logic and of those values. For sums, the equality is not as straightforward, as we have 0+0=0, 0+1=1, 1+0=1 but 1+1=2. So we need to know that everything except 0 is to be interpreted as true, and is this case, summing two boolean values is equal to performing a logical or.
The syntax used by "Logic Friday" is the standard mathematical notation for formulas. If there is no operator in between two terms, this is implicitly a product. If there is a plus, it is a sum. Normal precedence rules apply: products have higher priority as sums, so "A B + C D" is "(A && B) || (C && D)" in C syntax, including the optional parenthesis. The standard PLD syntax uses "&" for and, and "#" for or.
The way classic PALs work is that you write a couple of product terms, that is terms that do *only* include AND operations, but no OR operations. The amount of operands in these product terms is unlimited. so having something like "p13 = p1 & p2 & /p3 & p5 & p6 & p7 & /p8 & p9" is a single product, consisting of 8 factors. You do not have to include every input in a product term. An input not included in a product term means that input does not apply the result of the product term. If you include "p1" and "/p1" in the product term (which is possible on the lowest level of PAL programming, but your PLD parser might reject it anyway), the term is obviously false for every possible input, because "p1" and "/p1" can't be true at the same time. Basically, a product term is a pattern consisting of "must be true", "must be false" and "don't care" on the input bits. Obviously, only very simple logic functions can be expressed as a single product. That's why PAL chips allows to take the sum of up to 7 of those products to calculate a single output. This is the limit mentioned in the documentation. Furthermore, you should be aware that the OR calculation over the (up to) 7 inputs is actually implemented as NOR calculation. The output will be *low* of any of the product terms is true. So the equation for the an output pin is a list of up to 7 patterns, and if the input matches any of those patterns, the output will be low, otherwise it will be high. This is the reason why the equations all start with "!pinX = ..." to signify that you write down the condition in which the output pin is supposed to be low.
More modern programmable logic chips are more flexible, for example they often have an optional inverter for each output pin, so you can choose whether your sum of products is to determine the cases in which the output is low (as in classic PALs), or the sum of products describes the list of patterns in which the output is high.
There is no direct way in PALs to have equations of any other form than "sum of products", so factoring out common parts to save product terms is not possible. For example, if you want to implement !pin12 = (A # B) & (C # D) & (E # F), this is !pin12 = (A & C & E) # (A & C & F) # (A & D & E) # ..., which is a sum of 8 product terms (each product term having 3 factors). Assuming we don't have a GAL that can invert outputs and use boolean algebra magic (de Morgan rules) to swap products and sums, this equation is not directly programmable into a PAL chip - but there is one trick you can pull of: There are a couple of input pins and a couple of I/O pins. There are no dedicated output pins. If you set OE=0 for an I/O pin, it becomes an input pin. If you set OE=1, it becomes an output pin, but you can also use a single product term as OE to implement a tri-state pin. No matter how you set OE, the level at the I/O pin can be included in equations. This means you can feed back the output calculated from an (inverted) sum of 7 products back into the product terms for other pins. If you have spare I/O pins, you can use them to feed back intermediate results. For example, the !pin12 example can be implemented as "!pin13 = A # B; !pin14 = C # D; !pin15 = E # F; !pin 12 = !pin13 & !pin14 & !pin15". This obviously takes twice the propagation delay through the chip, and uses three output pins, which is obviously not desireable in many cases, but it shows how you can optimize PAL equations by extracting common subexpressions. The PAL-as-EPROM reader is unable to measure the propagation delay, which means that the analysis scripts have no idea what signals include feedback from I/O pins, so they can't pull off that trick automatically safely.
Sweetarts Ropes might be like your Balla Stixx
I have this sudden urge to binge watch Richard Dreyfuss movies
In boolean algebra, logic AND works just like mathematical multiplication. Therefore, the symbol is also the multiplication symbol, or, just like ordinary algebra, no sign means AND.
Similarly, logic OR works just like mathematical addition, so its symbol is the plus sign.
Using boolean algebra, you can rearrange the equations by hand using exactly the same rules as ordinary algebra.
There are some additional rules that can be used, called De Morgan's laws. These laws help you convert AND to OR or vice versa. Useful if you only have a bucket full of NAND gates. In fact, it is possible to implement any logic equation using only NAND gates, or, similarly, only NOR gates.
What i found fascinating when i started looking into it, is that a lot of DTL (diode transistor logic) was basically a lot of NOR gates. Because OR gates are very easy to implement with diodes, and the transistor output inverts, so it's crazy easy to make NOR gates with early integrated circuits. IIRC, the Apollo program computer on the lander was based on early integrated circuits, and was built either mainly or exclusively with 3 input NOR gates.
Copied from Wikipedia:
The Apollo Guidance Computer (AGC) used integrated circuits (ICs) from Fairchild Semiconductor:
Block I: Used 4,100 Fairchild Type G NOR gates
Block II: Used about 2,800 ICs, mostly Fairchild's 9915 dual 3-input NOR gates
Take THAT bad memory! LOL!
As far as I know, PALs with letter V have protection, those with letter L do not have protection.
I am restoring a multifunction card, because I need the video part, and someone removed a PAL from it. I am waiting for a friend in Vogons who has one of those cards and should read the PAL and send me the data so I can replicate it and finish the restoration. Its a unprotected PAL. But He said he tried with a Dataman but came empty, and maybe will try with a Arduino project for reading pal , bruteforce.
Anybody notice that somebody pressed the turbo button on Adrian at about 18 minutes?
Hi Adrian, If you happen to see this, I came across a song by "Weird Al" Yankovic and it's called "It's All About The Pentiums". It came up as a suggestion after I watched something else. I gave it a click and listened to it, and it made me laugh. I guess the song is now kinda retro as it was released in 1999 during the hype of the Pentium 2 and Pentium 3, and just before the release of the Pentium 4's. It's got proper subtitles so you can easily follow along with the lyrics.
Bristol UK !!! :-) Location of the Clifton Suspension Bridge.
So you create the formula wth the truth table, neat
can you still get smaller Dual Inline Gal chips? where
Yes, Microchip still manufactures them as the ATF16V8C available in DIP. Of course there are thousands of classic ones available on eBay as new old stock.
so with FPGA software then how can you compile that graphical drawing?
Under the barcode of the Haribo package looks like an address for the Italian division.
The contact details of the Italian national organization are provided because the bag is intended for the Italian market with texts in Italian. Haribo has production facilities in several European countries, and the same product can be manufactured in multiple factories. Based on the batch code, they can determine where this specific product was made.
U90 is a SN74LS 74AN I think, right next to the AT power strip, Edge triggered Flip-Flop?
17:45 opening food with crumbs / coating right over electronics o.o
Have you tried Toblerone swiss chocolate
The note sad it had a "Batman riddle", so basically a riddler riddle for you to solve, i'm guessing. And considering the little envelopes had "To the Blackman" written on them, i'm guessing it was a play on your last name converted into a "batman" name. But yeah, reading cursive is something i am not very good at either. There was quite a bit of guessing and interpolation of meaning from the words i could make out. ^-^
Also in Bristol 🇬🇧 hi lorenzo
We need an Adrian’s digital snack bin channel which is all snacks all the time.
I'm so curious about the Haribo pixels I had to order a bag from Amazon.
You don't need ORs: putting NOT on all inputs and on the output of an AND gate you have an OR gate (DeMorgan). I think is what is done there. It is a little weird because it is common to simplify everything to a sum of products that is easier to implement and deduce.
It's possible to generate every desired logic function from NOR gates.
@mikebarushok5361 No question on that, as I said, but even with nor, nand or xors you can do the sum of products that is the simpler way to implement specialty for pals, gals, cplds as it can be easily changed. And in fact all more used simplification ways end with a sum of products like Karnaugh maps
How big a problem is this "R" PAL/GAL thing, I mean coming across ones with state as opposed to straight shots? Also, what are the most common usage of such chips?
I've got the inklings of a possible solve!
Edit: Also, what range of capacity? How much state are we talkng?
What is that ringtone of yours? I want it!
3:50 Dragolo, not Djigolo :)
On the dual SID topic, don't you have an Evo board? Pop a couple of real SIDs in there and listen to some tracks. Even single SID tunes sound awesome when you pair a 6581 and 8580 and put them both on D400.
I'm type 2 and 60 now.....
Batman style riddle
Silly rabbit, SIDKICKS are for kids! ^-^
31:55 If you have 130 at the end 2105 means you was born in 1975, so in 2062 you would have 87 not 90. Am I right?
I think you blood sugar is low today.
You broke the cypher: but subtracted it wrong! It is 87.
Please recalculate what age you will be in 2062... just saying.
If I'm still a live in 2062, I'll be 98 years old.
i know what you go through adrian my dad is a diabetic and he does the same thing and he has a pump too
I wanted to have a pump, but my doctor won't prescribe one because my a1c is too good?! I might need to start eating more candy.
@ that’s sad the pump for my dad helps him maintain better control and he watches his diet like mad
At this point just use an emulator.
It's no different, and you just need the one, rather than a handful.
Does being diabetic give a new meaning to "Lifesavers" candy?
riddle...
sidkick sounds good ❤ granted the pi has more compute power than entire NASA in 1968 😂
ITALY MENTIONED
Sorry to hear you got diabetes!
A live blood glucose monitor displayed on the corner of his videos would be so cool. 😎
@ Yeah. like they did to Marques Brownlee who filmed himself briefly accelerating his Lamborghini on a road with a 35mph speed limit. Based on mean spirited interpretation of the footage, they excoriated him for doing 97mph in a school zone based on a "drive slow" sign they saw on an intersecting road, claiming he could have killed children. Some went as far as ratting him out to the NJ police who said they couldn't do anything about it. A careful watch of the footage using basic logic and math proves how shockingly stupid they are. School zones are have 15-20mph speed limits, not 35mph. The Lamborghini speedometer is in khm, not mpg. He floored it only after he passed the first yellow sign children sign and 35mph speed limit sign. He only peaked at 97khm for a split second during his two second acceleration. The road was empty with no sidewalks or homes. It was merely a backroad.
Its not too hard to understand hope this helps
Not pin18 = pin5 and pin 8 and not pin6 and not pin 7
OR pin 3 and not pin5 and not pin 6 and not pin 7
thanks, and how does it relate to the "limit " of 7 "inputs"? please
or i could read the github...
Tech content starts at 8:37
Stop killing adam with poisonous food pls.
Who is Adam?
@@Nukle0n *Adrian. Sorry.
Stop killing Adrian.
Explain to me whats poison...
@@JohnSmith-is8nq He's a grown man who can make those decisions for himself. People only send him this stuff because he appreciates it.
@@talideon I didn't know that. Also, I was 100% serious.
who the hell live 90 LOL