What is THIS for?!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 เม.ย. 2024
- Budget Airlines are known for their added fees for seating, coffee, checking in, and probably a "Hi, how are ya" from the staff. But are these unfair and unenforceable as a matter of consumer contract law?
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I'm going to start charging them a customer payment fee, and a customer payment service surcharge, and a use of customer card/ cash fee...
I think £5 each is reasonable, so that's £15 for me every time i pay for something, anywhere at any time...
Who's with me?
I remember years ago the law was: if the fee is compulsory it MUST be included in the displayed ticket price. That seems to not be happening here.
I just commented saying exactly the same 😄
That sounds far too reasonable to be true...
I thought that was EU and UK law too!
The compulsory fees that are legally required to be included in the ticket price are the fees payable by the airline to the airport and authorities, such as duty tax, airport tax, fuel, and insurance.
These additional "compulsory" fees, like the automated surcharge, are not fees paid by the airline to the airport or governing authority and are not legally required to be included in the price of the actual ticket.
However, they do need to be clearly defined before you hit the pay/confirm button, which it seems they are.
Here's an intriguing question: Is it possible to book a ticket for the same price without utilizing the automation service? The legality of such a scenario could spark a fascinating discussion.
Airlines are disgusting, they are dishonest, all of them.
The frustration is that the advertised fare is misleading. If a service fee is always going to be added then it should be included in the calculation for the advertised fare.
Hiding fees until check out is immoral, for sure.
@@lewisgregory769if it isn’t already it should be illegal. Money/companies don’t give a damn about morals or society
Came here to make the same comment. Whilst it may not be illegal or unfair, it is an attempt to make the ticket appear cheaper than it is to encourage purchase.
If there is no way for me to avoid the additional fee, then I would argue that it should be included in the ticket price during the pricing stage and broken out as a fee at the payment stage, exactly like the administration fee is.
It's not just airlines, lots of online booking things promote a price in adverts/searches then add fees when get to checkout. The per-ticket added fees should just be considered false advertising as it is impossible to get the advertised price...
If you are buying an concert ticking a agency/booking fee is normally clear in the advertised price
When I shop at a supermarket the price of the item is what I pay. I'm not charged a "use of a cart fee" or "cashier processing fee." I don't see why airlines should be able to get away with tacking on these every passenger and every flight fees.
It's depressing that we have got to the point that any of this is reasonable. Its not reasonable to advertise a price and then throw other mandatory charges in
Having an online ordering system *saves* them money. A systems surcharge is silly. What's next, a plane surcharge?
Next charge, is for the birthday cake for Sheila who cleans the toilets at the airlines head office
Don't give them ideas
Fascinating Aida made the point in thrir Cheap Flights "If you haven't paid to use the stairs you'll have to feckin jump!"
So basically, they want customers to pay for the automated system they brought in to save them having to pay people to process bookings. Nice!
If you went to the supermarket and picked up a tin of beans labelled 45p but at the checkout you saw a 'shop lighting fee' and a 'shelf stacking fee' and a 'automated door fee' and a 'cash handling fee' plus a checkout staffing fee or 'automated checkout provision fee ' you might be right to feel aggrieved even if legally those fees were listed in tiny little letters on a poster by the entrance. These charges remind me of buying concert tickets on Ticket b****** years ago. They just invented all sorts of costs to hike up the price of the transaction.
Supermarkets are splitting businesses so the warehouse and distribution is charging their own Supermarkets. That's why shops altered their stock and reordering system to only order if shelves were empty.
It made it look like we had food shortages when all the food was in warehouses. Shops were avoiding penalty clauses.
It was a similar money grab that breweries tried on pubs.
Funny you say that as in the usa the price on the shelf isn’t the price you end up paying at the till
@@tastytechaddictsmtb not his fault that the US is a backwards country 🙂
Buy tickets from the touts outside, they maybe ripping you off less than the ticket sellers and their prices are given before you buy them no multitude of addons that you cannot remove.
The most absurd one I've seen is a "card transaction fee" in tickets applied to each ticket, not per booking. OK card transactions have a cost, but on a debit card that's the same if I buy 1 ticket or 4...
So glad this has come up. Here is another i am six eleven tall. Seat space has got smaller ie: knee leg space. I don't fit in 90% of airline seats so have to ask for the door seats which they charge more for UK to USA will cost me extra £400 return. I understand if obese person needs one should pay but i naturally of no fault of my own gets charged.😢 They should be obligated to provide a seat that fits 😊
So we get a fee for automated payment when you do it yourself online! But if you go to a check in/ service desk and speak to a human being you also get charged a fee for not using an automated system 😮
It makes me cross that the price you see isn’t the final price! The add ons are ridiculous!
Surely if you can only book using the automated system because the airline has no other way for you to book, then these charges should be part of the advertised fare as it is impossible to avoid.
Probably you can book over the phone, for probably an even larger fee... They should be required to advertise the lowest possible and state what that is (e.g. website: £0, phone: £5 surcharge)
Budget airlines promote prices as if you’re getting on a bus, . But if you want to bring a bag well you need pay, if you want a particular seat well you have to pay for it. If you want to board first (along with everyone else) you need to pay. Etc
Here's a really easy way to tell if it's fair or not. They advertise a price to get you from A to B. If you can't fly from A to B with them, without paying more than that price, then it's not fair. Simple.
Some of their charges may well be legal, but they are still misleading imo 😡 They start off quoting a 'from' price but always ends up much more by the time I pay
Crooks come in all guises 🤔 the whole process is designed to scam you. All I want is the price to fly to ‘X’; not give me a price then keep adding unavoidable costs to triple my bill 😡!
WizzAir get you to check in online beforehand. You then use an app or print your own hardcopy boarding pass. We printed hardcopies at home for an outward flight but coming home we couldn't as we could only check in within 24 hours of the flight.
We found a print shop which printed them for about 20p each!
However . it does seem to me that Rule 3.18 of the CAP code is breached if a retailer advertises a price but does not include non-optional taxes, duties, fees or charges.
Of course the airline could argue that the online fee is necessary to secure the lower fee but that, seems to be outlawed by rule 3.21.
So I think that if a price is quoted but there is no way of actually paying that price it may be a breach of the CAP code.
I was under the impression that it was now required that ALL non-optional fees had to be included in the headline rate, not hidden away until late in the booking process, no?
The "system surcharge" is a rip-off. It may be legal but without the "system" (a website etc) the company does not have a business as (potential) customers cannot buy anything. Running the website is a business expense and the costs should be incorporated into the sales price (IMHO, of course)
Exactly
The one that utterly pisses me off is Vue cinemas. If you buy multiple tickets at the same time, they shaft you by charging the 50p transaction fee PER TICKET - when only a single payment was made. I resent being had over so avoid them unless the family whinge for some "must see" film. I'd go more if they weren't salami slicing me.
I think it would be unfair if they advertise along the lines of "fly to Vienna from 58.99" if it is impossible to avoid the additional charges
Exactly that, even if the flight is at 3am and you get the broken seat. Advertising a price with no possible way to purchase at that price. They need to be pulled up on this.
Because all the airlines will have to do the same then they are not losing, just an honest price rather than surcharge on top of surcharge.
I have cancelled purchases many times because the final price in no way reflected the original advertised price. I would rather pay more from a company that publish the true price that you can actually purchase.
Wing seats are available, oxygen and straps optional extras.
@@lightwoven5326 don't give them ideas 😅😅😅
@@EHOinExile Some years back didn't the head of Ryan air suggest they might charge for using the rest room on their planes?
@@WhiteDieselShed I think I remember something like that, and developing a 'standing' seat to increase capacity but, if I recall correctly, the Civil Aviation Authority stopped that.
ALL these extra fees are unfair. Its not like you have any choice in not paying them. The advertised price for the ticket should be the final price you pay.
Last year, I flew to Thailand and back. Because of my legs, I asked for aisle seats, and was charged for them. On the first leg, I was moved to a window seat, outboard of two gents with bad coughs and no masks. On the return, last leg, I was again removed, this time to another aisle seat, but without the usual seat facilities (things were broken). I subsequently asked for refund of the relevant seat reservation fees, and, after considerable hassle, was offered half those fees. This seems a distinct rip-off.
@rchas1023 There is a certain Asian airline I used for flying to and from the Philippines (one of the cheaper airlines I might add). I have an account with the airline that I can log into to. Even though I was booking through an agency I am able to phone up the airline and add that booking added to my account, log in and select which seats I want at no extra charge. I always choose window as it gives me something I can put my cushion up against and get some shut eye.
I find companies appears to constantly miss representations with their adds online. I have issue with the company Emma Sleeping. The online product pictures and info is forms part of the purchase contract is misleading. So now I am fighting with them. How they can continue getting away it's beyond me.
Unfortunately your own profession (legal) was one of the early pioneers of this kind of rip-off charge. I had reason to consult a UK firm of solicitors on a very minor matter over 40 years ago. Apart from the fact they didn't act on time, to allow the matter to proceed, they held my upfront payment and charged an "accounting fee" with VAT on top before they would issue an invoice. Such greedy practices are nothing new and have been around for a long time.
It's false advertising, is what it is. The bottom line for a product should be the price first shown on the website. No, I don't want chips, bags, courier tips, or admin with that.
Regarding the story at the end of the gentleman who had his wheelchair lost at the airport, who is liable, the airline, the handling agent who loaded it onto the plane, subsequently lost it and presumably also damaged it in the process, or the agency (if not the airport itself) who is hired by the airport to assist PRMs (persons of reduced mobility) who left him in the terminal. If he was stuck there he most likely could not have walked off the plane and would've been assisted off by _someone_ unless the crew were particularly unhelpful and just wanted him off the aircraft.
The increase may not have been a lot, but it came to almost 20% of the original ticket price.
The ad blocker probably included a pop-up blocker. Companies know this and use this to put the additional fees on a pop up.
If I cannot avoid the fee by doing something else, then the fee is not fair, it is 100% unavoidable and so should be part of the original price and not added on later
It's not an additional fee, it part of the original price, since you cannot avoid paying it
They should be forced to include mandatory fees in the initial price. In Australia if you don't pay to choose your seat, the is no increased charge later. You get allocated a random seat
I was so pleased my Ryanair trip offered me one way at £18 and the other at £15 - so for the wife and I that's great less than £72! £180.52 was the actual price!
Because you’re adding on loads of stuff, stop aging luggage and all the other things and you get the price advertised
@@tastytechaddictsmtb Plus a fee.
Same happened to me with Ryanair £69 for a return flight, then I clicked NO on all upgrades and extras, I was then required to pick a seat, so I selected one priced at £0 (there were 12 available), the final price for my return flight was £204, I did not have any luggage.
@@darren25061965 you aren’t required to pick a seat, you have to wait until 24 hours before you fly, the system then automatically allocates you a seat
@@darren25061965 I don't beleive you. There's something you've missed or something you're not telling us
I think everything that is mandatory in the price, it should be included in the ticket. If they are going to charge those £9 no matter what, it should be included. If you could avoid them somehow, then it make sense it's a separate charge. I think they do these things so in the webpages that compare the prices with different airlines, they appear cheaper at the beginning. So I think they are unfair. Maybe they are not illegal, but we should push back against these shady practices.
I compared flights between Turin & London, found fares with BA which included luggage were lower than Ryanair after inclusion of the luggage (hand luggage and hold luggage). This excludes seat selection.
The system surcharge seems to be a compulsory charge for booking online. These sort of charges SHOULD be included in the ticket price, similar to the administration fee. It seems you cannot purchase a ticket for the "original" stated price.
If there is to be a compulsory surcharge for booking online, it should be included in the ticket price from the moment you land on their website.
How do you book wizzair without booking online ?
@@machintrucGaming unsure. All the more reason for them to include that surcharge in the price of the ticket.
@@machintrucGamingBook using their app.
You can get the price advertised by using their app.
Or be displayed as £wx.yz + fees as not all fees are fixed and will have to be calculated at the end.
They should in my opinion only be allowed to advertise the actual minimum onboard price.
Making it clear, that any additional services such as seat options and extra baggage comes with additional charges. The main point being the cost of a basic seat, random allocation of comes at an achievable fixed cost that is advertised.
I got charged an out of hours surcharge fee by my solicitor, when I questioned it they said they had woken up in the night and thought about my case!
“Crooks surcharge”
I recently travelled to Spain with my 5 yr old son on his first flight on Ryanair.
I am disabled so I get my seat free (but only in a certain area which is the last few rows at the back)
Now the advert Ryanair have in their website says (children get a free seat)
So on our outbound journey we were in seats 30a (window) and 30b (middle) as it said that the child HAD to sit next to the adult. Both seats were free.
On our return we said in seats 33a and 33b. My seat was free but I was charged £12 for my son. So I went back and tried again but this time I opted to have a normal free seat. Again it offered 30a and 30b on the outbound trip and both our seats were free and once again the return trip my seat was free and his was £12.
Yet at the top of the page the advert banner said ‘children’s seats are free! *under 10)
When I complained to Ryanair I was told just pay it!
if an airline advertises a price for a flight and it is impossible to travel at that price because they add unavoidable extras, whatever the label, then it would be safe to say that the service is not as advertised, especially when the advertised prices are amalagamated for price comparison sites, and the airline is deliberately listing lower prices than it is possible for someone to pay to get the advertised flight. They are advertising an incomplete price, purely to apear cheaper compared to other airlines. If it were any other industry, customers would find in unacceptable. If I buy a can of pop from the local store, the packaging and distribution is not added ontop of the advertised price in the store. the airline industry have already been called to task for adding airport landing fees as extras in their pricing. It sounds like they need to be taken to task again for deliberately misleading customers by not showing the actual prices they charge. You can guarentee that as their booking system is online it is impossible to order a ticket without using the "automated system". people don't mind bare bones to get cheap tickets, but the appearance of dishonesty in a supplier is another thing altogether.
I think the comparison sites pricing is the true reason behind these false prices.
WTF, they already include admin fee. This seems like a trick to make flights seem cheaper in flight price comparison services. Another option would be some kind of tax avoidance, as probably different tax for calling things something else. Absolutely dirty tricks. Surprised they didn't reduce cabin bag size again...
I do wonder how many tax loopholes there are.. I worked for a company that created another company to buy in the stationery.
So we purchased the copy paper and pens and other desk items and sold them to the main company and I was doing both jobs but paid from the main company??? Made no sense to me.
Those fees shown should ALL be illegal.
I think it's more of a search results manipulation, I bet they don't show the price after fees on it.
The US makes airlines itemize and explain all of their fees plus all of the govt taxes and fees prior to checkout. It helps a lot.
All airlines do that before the moment of payment.
The airline company I like is Yorkshire Airways. Run by Hale and Pace 😅
It is a class sketch though.
Ey up! Fish and chips for inflight meal and land back at Leeds 😊
Jet2 are are a bit like a Yorkshire Airways, as they sell Yorkshire Tea and bacon butties on board! They are based in Leeds. Very good service.
They 'MANAGE FINGS'.
The thing is the wording that they used, at £58.99 it asks you to continue with a price of that then they present a Total price of £67.99. In my view it gives you the impression that the price will be £58.99 and yes they have shown the total price later and the brake down. There are better Airlines websites who show you the current total as you move from page to page while offering additional services.
These are Illegal in Hong Kong. They were prevalent a few years ago because main airlines would make you still pay them when booking with points.
I struggle to see how an app can cost more per payment than a physical machine in a car park.
Banks charge per transaction. The parking people are just covering costs.
As others have stated if there is no way of avoiding these additional charges when a ticket is purchased then surely it must be false advertising to promote a ticket at an initial cheaper price when it can never be bought at that price. They are just hoping that by the time you arrive at the payment page and the price has increased you can’t be bothered to cancel the booking and shop around for a cheaper price. In my view all these hidden charges by the budget airlines are designed to make it impossible to do a fair price comparison 😡
Bank charges are fractions of a penny on the grand scheme of things, don't be swindled into paying ore due to "Bank charges"
@@63sgjunior Many car parks have machines where you can pay by card now, not only cash. I haven't seen a 20p surcharge on any of those....
@@63sgjunior Banks do not charge £9 for a sub £60 transaction. Yes there is a fee which is likely to vary depending on payment method but they know the ticket price so add it onto that. Where do you draw the line on surcharges?? Checkout assistant smiled at you +£5 Your bags were not thrown 30ft to the ground +£20 Your bags were not ransacked and anything valuable stolen +£50???
I flew WizzAir last month. You options are:
- Choose your seat now for a fee (eg. like their £16)
- Check-in online 24hrs before and be randomly allocated a seat (no fee)
They do it to squeeze money out of you for peace-of-mind of being sat together and having your boarding pass way in advance.
Also worth mentioning that they charge the administration fee of £8 per person per flight. So for example, they whack on £32 for two people to fly somewhere and back ... which for my flight was basically like adding another person to fly one-way with us.
Also, the system surcharge thing isn't about charging just because it's a website.
It's WizzAir attempting to discourage companies running automated scripts to run through the purchase process.
If they detect an ad blocker, they slap on £10.
When I went to buy my tickets, I had an ad blocker on and they kept showing a pop-up saying they think I'm a bot.
I do hope nobody ever takes the ashtrays from the toilets and the toilet doors. If sufficient of these things are removed the aircraft cannot fly passengers. Even more painful is if someone witnesses the missing ashtrays and reports it this to the authorities. Not for one minute am I suggesting that you should ever take these vital pieces of equipment. Possibly there is a case for rewarding passengers with a “leaving things alone” credit, equivalent to the fees and add-ons they chisel out of you when you book your flight.
I thought it was pay extra for the seat of your choice or no charge for a random seat, them charging for the random seat is pretty crazy
Ambiguous. I would assume that when you came to the point of being allocated a random seat, if you didn’t like it and wished to choose a seat, your choice would be then - maybe - be more expensive.
If you believe they are unfair... do not fly with them again... hit them in the profit pocket.
but they won't do that because they're still a lot cheaper than most mainstream airlines!
Personally I find them equally priced, since airline like ba as an example include everything in the price. Bags, seat selection etc included.
You can fly cheaper on main stream Airlines if you shop for deals
@@insightphoto You maybe surprised. They were cheap to get the headlines and people did get real bargains but once the customer base is large enough the prices start increasing. Then the sneak rubbish starts with surcharges etc.. It's not a price increase it's a surcharge... Starts with surcharges for obvious things like heavy bags and then most bags and then .... everything is extra...
In the past when considering budget airlines all the add ons brought the final cost closer to non budget airlines. Factoring in other non financial benefits of flying on non budget airlines then we tended to fly with them.
I absolutely agree that the company should be free to itemise their bill with as many arbatery charges as they wish and costs must be covered. But shorley if a product or service is offered at a price, it must be physicaly possible for a person to attain the product/ service at that price. The advent isn't advertising to sell you the thing for the price its advertising for you to get the thing for the price. And if it isn't, the devs need to patch the law.
I liked when I could fly for 2p to Norway or £5 return to Portugal. People being stupid spoiled it for me by complaining that the price advertised is not the price you pay. It actually was if you played the game.
It's a little sickening; Airlines before: "Use our digital booking and online tools to avoid extra costs like check-in desks and ticket printing"
Also airlines: "We'll tack on an automated digital handling fee instead, for your convenience".
Customers: *Pinches nose bride due to the mental pain of inconsistency and blatant lies*
Likely the seat price for unallocated won't increase. In my experience if you continue to refuse a fee for seating you will be given any remaining seat, for no charge. Their text there appears to suggest that seat allocation will be more expensive later, meaning that a £10 extra legroom seat may become £20 later. While this is true, they fail to make it clear that the free option will always remain. It feels to me like the omission of telling you there will be a free alternative is deliberate.
I paid extra £400 return to the USA from UK for extra leg room as I am so tall I don't fit in hobbit seats (no leg room)😊
Under *contract* law, yes it's legal if the fees are shown before payment.
But there are other issues under *consumer* law if a fare is advertised without the fees being disclosed.
Of course, what's legal and what's enforced are different things, as you've noted with shoplifting. But no one would say shoplifting is legal.
Ultimately only a court can decide if something is a misleading action or omission. Businesses seem to think anything goes if they add T+C's apply somewhere. But there doesn't seem to be a good basis for this belief.
I don’t understand why I have to pay for a seat! Do I have the choice to stand through the flight? Do I ride on the wing? That one really makes me mad!
You don't have to pay for a seat, a seat is included in the fare. If you want to choose a particular seat then you need to pay, but if you don't want to pay you'll still get a seat.
@@simonneep8413 if you needed to explain that to Kathy then she should not be on a plane but in a padded cell.
Some people want a particular seat. If you don’t care then it’s free.
@@fredbloggs5902 Although one low cost airline has a feature/bug such that you can get any (including premium seats) for free. That may be bordering on dishonest, but it involves nothing more than visiting their website.
You can get a free seat when you turn up on the day, whatever is left over.
The seats have different prices, which makes no sense. I normally travel with a frend(s), so we pay to sit together and choose the cheapest available.
I have heard many stories about families turning up, not having paid to sit together and expecting others to give up the seats they paid for.
By now most people know the game when dealing with budget carriers. Nickeled and dimed to death, no leg room and everything is extra. And I am glad they are competing with the full fare carriers.
As they can't sell seats they do not have, if you turn up as a solo passenger and don't care where you sit, there really should not be any charge. Like wise as there are a reducing pool of seats to choose from booking a seat should be no more expensive the day before the flight than it is a year in advance. You just have less available options the closer you leave it... UNLESS of course the airline is over-selling the plane capacity hoping that some will not turn up for the flight they paid for.
Wizzair is the worst airline
Last time I checked Ryan Air charged a fee for the convenience of online check-in but if you opted to check in at the airport you were charged a fee for the reassurance of being able to use staff to help you check in. You still had to pay extra to check in. Certainly unreasonable to me that the flight price doesn't include any allowance for actually checking in. When you fly with a family on a return flight these fees really add up as the apply to each person each way.
As you cannot board an aircraft without checking in then it should be inclusive.
Yes,there even trying to change for hand luggage now,,if you pay £6 they can guarantee you can take it on the plane,if you don't pay they cant guarantee you can take it on the plane and wil go into the planes hold
BA is notoriously bad fee seat fees. We already pay Business class tickets of £2000 and now they want an extra £94 each to choose a seat.
Why would there be ads in a booking form? More digital stalkers?
Cool polo top, about time you wore some bright colours now summer is on its way 😎.
Great video also
If you bought a tin of beans at Tesco and the checkout price was more than the shelf price then this would be illegal.
I think not.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invitation_to_treat
@@augnkn93043If the advertised price (e.g. shelf label) *always* had a fee added at the checkout, then it would be in breach of consumer laws. Invitation to treat allows for mistakes, not consistently misleading prices.
@@augnkn93043 I didn't know that, interesting
It would be legal at common law but illegal under consumer statutes.
@@MrApolloTom
It’s been a long time since I studied law.
I've taken to paying cash where practicable because I'm sick of the surcharges that cards incur. I know our tax office adores card or online transactions so they can track the accounts but it is up to the vendor to pay their taxes honestly, not me to pay additional charges to aid the tax office.
Last time I was on a plane you could still go forward and see the pilot.
Last time I was on a plane you could still smoke.
Just like in Airplane the movie
@@MikeWalls7829 34 years ago for me.
@@MikeWalls7829 I've never been a smoker, but years ago on trans-Atlantic flights I used to spend most of my time at the back of the aeroplane talking to people who were smoking there. It beat sitting in a cramped seat for twelve hours.
Was the pilot named Pontius?
Air fares are almost unbelievably cheap in recent times. I remember paying £350 for a return flight from London to Stockholm 25 years ago. Anyone who doesn't like the added extras or the bare bones service is free to use a different airline, or lease themselves a Learjet.
Prepare to be called a Boomer. "Waaah my mate flew to Barcelona for £6.50 return once"
The cost of aviation fuel, aircraft, and pilots has come *right* down since 1999, right?
Doesn't anyone question where the money to conduct these flights comes from, especially if they have EU261 provisions?
Careful, this isn’t about how much per say, this is about extras being tacked on with little to no displayed information being displayed in a clear and concise manner without reading a 350 page t&c’s. Had this been you going to a garage and been given a quote for £300 per say and come to pay a bill of 500 and on the receipt you are charged for extra materials you were never notified of you wouldn’t be a happy chap.
Saying it's ok to pad out an advertised price because it's still cheap is the flip side of saying it's ok to steal a bit from a shop if I spend a lot as well.
My mate just flew wizz air to visit me in London. He had the option 24 hours before departure to book seats again and the only options were the XL seats for £19 each. He chose to be given a random one and still got the XL seat. So sometimes checking in late gets you a better deal. Use this advise at your own risk though lol.
Surely any fee/charge that cannot be avoided must be unfair if not included in the advertised headline price - making it impossible to purchase at the advertised price.
I’m more bothered about the lack of access to premium seats if you use the disabled assistance service!
Where I live in Canada budget airlines offer minimal savings. A flight from one city to another in the same province can easily run 700 to 1000 dollars one way. If you pay a year in advance and fly both ways on inconvenient dates you can drop that by half. But they can arbitrarily cancel your flight and you have to fight to get a refund and usually you have to file a complaint with the gov to even get a response from some of them. I have had friends that were two weeks away from a dream vacation have their flight cancelled with no warning and then were told the tickets were non-refundable because they chose the cheaper seats. 5 years later they are still fighting the airlines trying to get their money back. They have been banned from traveling on that airline because they are fighting it out in court. They won the first round in the courts. On appeal it was tossed out. Now they are waiting to see if they can appeal that. Or whatever. Not really sure what is going on with that.
I booked with Singapore Airline and it gave the flight cost, upon going through with the booking it came to selecting seats which was free until I came to the final flight and that had an enforced cost to select a seat. I find the seat selection to be a poor reflection to the airline and the flight may have many passengers walking about on a flight to be with their family or friends., or the usual can I just sit there in your seat you paid for.
Well researched as usual and very relevant to anyone flying but I would love to hear his thoughts next on A coroner blasting the “inhumane and indefensible” treatment of a UK prisoner who took his own life after serving 17 years for a 23-month jail term with UK's indeterminate sentencing. A big question is why is it so hard for to resentence people who are literally now rotting in jail with no release date after relatively short sentences? (Scott Rider case, 45,) honestly this has flown under the radar but treating injustice with another injustice serves no one.
You watch, a system charge will be added to Parking fines for the use of DVLA connected systems.
Since the Pandemic,I have found that Wizzair have increased their seat reservation fees by about 400% of what they were before,even in the Winter. The only way to avoid them is to wait until 24 hours before to reserve a seat(then it is still not clear that they will not charge), randomly, or get the package including check in luggage. This has increased my regular fare with Wizzair by around 200% ,so £200 return, instead of £100 for two cabin bags. Ryanair is still still £100 for the same including standard seat reservations( with two cabin bags) for a return fare. Wizzair have lost my custom for future bookings as a result. If you are flying on a budget, like me, you have to change airlines to the best fare deal available. Now, with Wizzair fare increases, it is sometimes cheaper for me to book Lufthansa return flights,which are often cheaper, with check in luggage and no seat reservation fee.
I’m going to Albania next month for 8.99 each way, total price, stop taking 😂excessive luggage and selecting all the options. You want the base fare and nothing more
Gezuar!
It's exactly what he did ... and he was still charges 2 additional fees that came to 20% of the ticket price
@@davidioanhedges it will depend on how he booked it, if he’s not using the website or app and is using a third party app such as sky scanner etc it adds extra fees on for things like this.
@@davidioanhedges Only the 'automated' whatever charge was extra and seemingly appears randomly when booking via their website rather than via the app.
The admin fee is included in the initial ticket price and only shown as a detail in the fare breakdown in the same way as you see a price (in civilised countries anyway...) in a shop, when you pay the receipt shows how much VAT you've paid, but that's not an extra charge to the price you saw on the shelf.
@@simonneep8413 Any added charges that are unavoidable are unfair
Note you get charged an admin fee regardless and an un-automated fee ..
If an ad blocker is removing code from a website, how can the website owner be held responsible?
It would be interesting to see if, as reported by some the use of a vpn can get you a better price?
Intriguing, as it is possible to change prices dependent on the originating IP. The legality about the use of price scraping from the airline/ holiday and the use of vpn is a grey area.
Never fly with "cheap" airlines, they ALWAYS charge you for any type of fees.
Regarding seat choice - I recently booked my seat with such a system then paged backwards & forwards trying to avoid some Fee I spotted,and WoW, my seat choice is now Denied. These systems ARE RIGGED. My example was wanting a window seat and their system deliberately locks out choices, and ups fees seemingly at random.
Instead to going from Exeter to Jersey with Loganair for 157.00 single it is cheaper to go,
Exeter to London Victoria National Express
London Victoria to Poole
National Express
Condor Ferries
Poole to Jersey
Savings of 70.00
Is there a way of paying without incurring the fee?
Those who note that with all the added fees budget airlines often end up only a little cheaper than full-fare ones might want to watch this video by a commercial pilot in Europe. In the U.S. before deregulation air travel tended to be expensive. Airlines only needed to justify their charges with regulators. After deregulation in the late 1970s, competition set the prices.
That lowered prices and created budget airlines, but there was a floor to those prices. An airline that priced below costs would go out of business. There were only a few ways an airline could reduce costs to be more competitive. They couldn't reduce employee pay (including that of pilots) much, because employees would move to the company that paid better. Fuel costs were the same. The planes came from only two companies, so there was little money to be saved there.
The fact that a budget airline has almost the same operating costs as a full-fare one means that these budget airlines are driven to advertise one price but add on fees and charge another. They have to look cheaper than they are.
Here's a video that explains how deregulation changed commercial aviation, making operating costs more important and customer comfort and safety less important.
th-cam.com/video/y_zn_x2JK5Q/w-d-xo.html
I could see the airlines potentially getting into trouble with misleading advertising. E.g. if they advertise flights to Tipperary from £50, but the mandatory fees added before checkout mean that it's impossible to fly there for just £50, that would seem to be misleading advertising unless the advert makes it reasonably clear that there are mandatory fees.
In many cases it costs more to fly budget than a scheduled airline and then wait till something goes wrong...lol
I have used booking sites before.
I prefer to book online as the price is normally cheaper than going through travel agents.
The admin fee is normally to be the middleman (travel agent) liasing between you and the airline and transferring or facilitating the payment with the airline.
Now when it comes to choosing seats i dont tend to book through the booking site as they are sometimes higher than theseats through the airline so normally I book them through manage booking on the airline websites or if I am not bothered about the seat then I do at check in with no extra charge.
As for the automated fee I treat that as a fixed service charge you might see at a restaurant somewhere
So its the norm for me and I could be saving £300-£400 in some cases but sometimes the airline is cheaper its worth checking out airlines first.
'Fair and reasonable' is the laws' ticket to ride! It is totally subjective and ,therefore , unfair from the off. In this episode the scale of the system fee or the 'supply and demand' price of a seat should not be related to scale. What might be affordable and seen as farir and reasonable to one person might not be seen in the same way to someone else. I believe that air line ticket prices should be all incluse including one piece of luggage. It must include a seat and must include administration charges. That way everyone will have a basis for comparison and everyone can be treated fairly and reasonably without legal interference.
surely when your searching for a flight and your given the price for the flight you must be able to pay that price, if its the case that there's nothing you can do to ever get the flight for the original price that is false advertising, that additional £9 shouldn't even be mentioned it should be in the original price. This airline is defenatly being misleading.
If you were going to book a seat you would do it when you book the flight. Letting the airline choose your seat when checking in does not incur a charge. When I am travelling light for work, just me and a laptop, then these budget airlines are excellent, who cares where you sit. But if I have a cabin bag or hold luggage I will always go with BA. And sometimes I can get a BA flight cheaper than the budget airlines.
Just paid for my Priority more than ticket
Did it not mean that if you then wanted to choose an allocated seat later it may be more expensive but if you did nothing you would still have a randomically allocated free seat?
Funny how buying stuff online from someone like Amazon there is no added extras for goods bought only at the end a delivery charge is added.
Fees and additional costs when booking a flight is a modern phenomenon. Many years ago, such additional costs barely existed wheras today they are commonplace. I appreciate that costs need to rise over time, however the impression is that airlines do their best to hide these costs by quoting low headline prices and then nickle and diming you for all manner of extras. Let's not forget that when it comes to passenger's money, airlines are NOT the most scrupulous of companies (remember the Covid-19 refunds debacle?).
With Wizz, they'll charge that extra fee if you book on their website. Use their app and it's not applied.
So, no luggage, don't choose a seat, insurance, speedy boarding or any other nonsense and you will get the fare they advertise. But only using their app.
Look at british airways as an alternative. Baggage is included in the price, free seat selection etc.
You will fund that on lots of routes, BA is the same or even cheaper than Ryan or easy once you have selected all the add ons
I one got a flight on BA for less than 40 pound to Spain, including bags. Gotta keep an eye open for the deals
I would honestly like to see the system surcharge challenged in a court. The fact it is presented at the last possible moment, is unavoidable, and amounts to 1/5th of the ticket price, it seems excessive, especially with the admin fee too! In fact with both fees, we’re heading closer towards half of the total airfare.
If it was fair - it should be built into the price of the fare. As should the admin fee to be honest!
Would it make a difference if they were the only people running that air route, so your choice is take it or leave it?
A price quoted for a flight should be for the necessary cost of the flight and the airline can then try to bump the optional extra services it sells.
1) I can't fly without a seat, it would be illegal. Airlines know which are the most popular seats and can charge an extra fee if a pax prefers them over less popular seats, so the airline defaults to an unpopular seat that's included in the quoted price, which the pax can change for an extra fee. That's what I've seen with budget airlines and it makes sense. It doesn't make sense to quote a price for the flight that does not include a seat.
2) Extra charge for service of running website? Well, without the website I wouldn't be able to transact with the airline and buy a ticket. Running the website is the cost of doing biz.
So, if I'm quoted a price but need to buy a seat and pay for the ability to pay, what is the initial quote for? It seems it's really just a marketing ploy to offer a tempting price, get the user to navigate thru the website, which can be very time consuming and peppered with annoying adverts and then the extra prices are added at the end where the user has the option of abandoning the purchase and going to another option than the flight chosen....but that would mean starting again and the psychology is to just accept fate and buy, the sums aren't huge just annoying. Multiply by the millions of flights sold.