Why are there so few city-states?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 ก.พ. 2025
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Resources:
A. The primary source for this video is: Parker, G. (2004). Sovereign city: the city-state through history. Reaktion Books.
B. www.un.org/dev...
Produced by Dave Amos in sunny Sacramento, California.
Edited by Eric Schneider in cloudy Cleveland, Ohio.
Sorry about calling Hamburg on the Baltic and misplacing the dot for Danzig! Don't know what happened there, but I'll try to do better next time.
Well you did out in the place of Szczecin which is also a major port.
Minor errors in an otherwise flawless and very interesting video. Nice work!
Imagine liking your own comment
Also, what about using the official English name of the city? Gdansk not Danzig...
Riga's in wrong place as well
The true reason is because the Civ AI only allows a max of 64 nations/city states but with huge lag.
Seems legit 🤔
True ... and Outside City Civ AI can only handle even less. Around 16 is the max, and thats realy pushing the limits. All because there now is a seperation between Nation AI and City AI.
Shit you not, this vid made me want to play after viewing
Solution, play older versions with city states mods. My favorite older version is CivII
@@justinjanecka3203 Yup. I have hundreds of hours in Civ II
Singapore is the real city-state: It has its own mega airport (Changi) along with other aerodromes, it has its own military (air force and navy), the entire country is literally covered by rail services (Mass Rapid Transit) and it has its own seaport.
Singapore is today's Venice. A city completely devoid of any natural resource (both were swamps before humans), but with a good natural seaport and centers of commerce, technology and education.
Same with Hong Kong
@@unassumingaccount395 Hong Kong doesnt have a military of it's own. Besides it belongs to China in a way.
@@katjerouac No way are they owned by china in any literal sense.
@@unassumingaccount395 lol.
British-china agreement. Ehm
San Marino would actually be the closest thing to a "classic" city-state in the present day, as it is a city (more or less) that controls a small rural region around it. After all, it is the remnant of the Italian city-states that existed during the Middle Ages and Renaissance.
San Marino , Liechtenstein and even Luxembourg, Andorra and Malta I'd say are all functionally city states - small size dominated by one metro area.
And there's plenty of city state territories : Practically every island territory, Goa, Gibraltar....
I was thinking about San Marino as well, definitely a classical "city-state". Very cool country too, :)
It's also landlocked which kinda blows apart the "you have to be on a coast" theory.
@@ericjamieson Germany had alot of land locked city states.
@@nox5555 No it's just Berlin that acts as its own state without being on the coast and that's because it's the capital.
I liked that “Italics” on the map (3:00) was italicized.
I'm glad someone noticed. :)
the guy who put that tower in Italy thought of doing the same
Clayton Krichinak
Dang, that was really clever!
Glad I'm not the only one.👀🖒
im sorry i dont speak italics
"Greeks had no real desire to grow their cities into larger nations or empires."
*Alexander of Macedon would like to know your location*
Yeah, he seems to have completely missez that about Alexander the Great and his later offspring that would one day bring queen Cleopatra.
Alexander the Great showed the Western world what was possible. Romans mimicked the hell out of that man and his generals/governors. He shaped a lot of the world that would play out over the 1500 years that folowed him. And he did in in very few years.
Lol you just triggered all the North Macedonians, nice
Ernest van Ophuizen Athenians, in the Delian League🤨
Even before Alexander Athens and Sparta had functionally expanded their borders throughout the eastern Mediterranean, Athens had settlements in modern Turkey and Italy
"It's possible we may some day live in a future where our city is more important to our identity than our country"
Honestly I'd argue for a lot of people that is already the case, at least in the US.
More like States with different opinions.
No
@@naddarr1 It was the Civil War that started the US pride.
@@naddarr1 that's never happening. Sure while we have our different views I don't think we're splitting up. Spitting up the states would take a toll on trade and the economy. We would basically be shooting ourselves in the foot.
@@naddarr1 im not American but is state pride that significant though? id argue that the people of San Francisco and new your city have more in common with each other than they do with rural citizens of their states.
2038: Walt Disney World Resort declares independence from USA and becomes a micro-state
2039: Damned Yankees charge into Disney World and set it ablaze...
The Pirate Bay
Aristotle: No higher form of governance is possible than that of a city-state.
Rome:
Higher =/= Bigger
Aristotle knew about empires as Persia was next door.
@@MorphingReality thanks for clarifying
We should have dismantled ourselves in to city states before forming the EU lmao.
@@meneither3834 Oddly enough, I was just pondering what appears to be a natural re-emergence of the city state that is in its early stages.
The trajectory of recent technological advance has driven a lot of people out of rural areas and into cities. There was a suburbia detour but now you've got places like Dubai cropping up.
I will probably write an essay on it, but I think its reasonable to assume that trend will continue, the question is will national govts be willing to give any leeway?
@@MorphingReality
Aristotle was wrong about many things. I wouldn't be surprised if he was wrong about this one too.
@@IkeOkerekeNews That's possible, I was just clarifying his position :)
I'm from Germany. I think your representation of the three german city-states (and we still call them "Stadtstaaten") is good, considering the scope of this video. Obviously there is always a lot more nuance. Also nice use of the (german) word "Hinterland" at 2:28
Yes there a bunch of city-states in the Holy Roman Empire if I remember correctly.
In the United States we use the word Hinterlands as well, most people not knowing its German. It didn’t really jump out until I read your comment.
In Australia "hinterland" is used as well.
@@Sofus. Not just city-states, but also stuff like basically just a single farm/manor being considered for all intents an purposes independent (underneath the emperor, obviously). The HRE was weird.
@@xway2well their strangeness lasted for 1000 years and created stability in Europe
Rule 4: Don't be near large empires.
* sad hk noise *
exactly
The Indonesian Riau islands are just ~20km from Singapore & Indonesia used to be part of several large empires too e.g. Srivijaya, Majapahit. Indonesia was mad when Singapore joined Malaysia in 1963 instead of itself instead & retaliated with gurella warfare (called _Konfrontasi_ - 'confrontation' in Indonesian). The president then (Sukarno) was later ousted in a coup by Suharto though, who ended the warfare, & that might be a reason that Singapore's 1st prime minister was relatively more friendly with him. In 2014 a diplomatic row occurred when Indonesia named some new warships after marines that had bombed McDonald House in Singapore during the gurella warfare (IIRC it is because Indonesia officially/technically/legally regards them as heroes, as they died after being arrested & executed by Singapore)
More and more HKers want independence now, and need international support.
And Macau too
Like or not, Hong Kong is the part of China.
Easy guide on how to be a thriving city state:
Step 1) be a tax haven
Done.
Step 0: Be a historical footnote with some claim to independence. Otherwise you'll be rolled over by (insert empire/PRC here) and your tax haven will be useless.
How do you suppose a nation like Monaco has the power to defy US tax laws? You have to have massive political leverage to be able to offer a tax haven
@@zakadams762 Monaco does that by being very tiny. Same for a lot off micro nations there size help.
Sure the US or any nation could use military forces but it will place that nation in a bad light for attacking that small nation.
Besides they often have a powerful enough ally direct on hand. For Monaco that would be France,
The Vatican has Italy, Andorra has both France and Spain.
Step 0) Have nukes.
Monaco is essentially a tax dodging scheme set up by France. They are not an independent country, even places like Singapore depend in a massive level on importing workers, have next to no resources and very little cultural and ethnic legitimacy to be a country. Those places shouldn't simply exist.
This is the most normal comment section I have seen in my life
yeet
earth, why is your profile pic so 3d. That’s the most 3d profile pic I have ever seen. That earth was cropped so perfectly. You hav the best profile pic
@@parryplaguedoc to prove them flatties wrong
Ironically, this comment section then isn't "normal" since it doesn't follow the norm. Perhaps you mean civilized?
What is normal?
Singapore is pretty cool, I love Changi. It’s a nice airport
I see you everywhere and yes thank you for loving my city.
Yes! I'll be Singapore Jan 2... counting the hours to chili crab, chicken rice, crispy pork.....
shinnam hows Singapore?
@@shinnam singapore airport is the best airport to have a layover in.
Singapore got kicked out of Malaysia because Malay wants to be a Malay majority state and the Chinese and Indian in Singapore might ruin it.
I was wondering where Monaco's working class lived. Now I know!
In Brazil. Obviously
@@theraginginfernape9496 I'm sure you think you're funny. I just don't normally think about people commuting to work across an international border.
@@MatthewStinar In some borders (like the USA-Mexico), it's a real hassle to cross. In others (like Netherlands-Belgium), one can cross accidentally, nobody batting an eye.
In Detroit there is definitely international commuting going on. I imagine in Buffalo/Niagara Falls too. I could also see Americans living in Washington but working in Vancouver.
@@User31129 I remember my mom telling me about the commuters coming from Mexico into Texas when she lived there. It's just not something I usually picture happening.
As a Wichitan, I appreciate your mentioning Wichita’s unlikeliness to become a city-state. If it was it’d be just about the most pathetic city-state imaginable
Truly a brilliant video as always! As a student of landscape architecture with a fascination for history I really appreciate the work that goes into them so THANK YOU!
Thank YOU for watching!
4:19
"Unfortunate for the Greeks, the Empire came to them"
**cough** Persian Empire **cough** **cough** Macedonia **cough**
Exactly, I was about to point out that Alexander the Great's ambition to form an empire, left the city-states under the rule of a despot (in the Greek sense of the word). After that, Rome just came to occupy the role of "overlord" but the model of city-state was, long ago, gone
yes I was thinking about them too,
but Persian failed,
macedonia spread greek culture widely, became the new persia that feel apart after the death of Alexander the great,
thus only about 2 gereration the cities had no real power, to be regained right after. And they got to keep their specific city ruling methods like democratic Athens, and all the unique types of governance during the macedonian empire!!
While with Rome ..
they really ended any concept of real self-governance in Greece , Rome obligated the extreme central rule pointing to the emperor ..
ending all the city governance experiments right upon being forgotten about until rediscovered in the renaissance !
so only Rome really long term ended the Greek city states ..
exactly, i was thinking he will say Persian Empire came to them...instead he jumped few centuries... lol
@@JeroenJA To be honest, the Persians accomplished most of their objectives, including sacking Athens twice.
5:15, you put danzig at stettin's location
i literally came down t comments to see if anyone else pointed that out
Hmm.. yes I remember the great relocation of Danzig, quite an achievment
Danzig or War
Gdańsk had enough of Gdynia, it moved to Stettin
"It's possible we may some day live in a future where our city is more important to our identity than our country"
Laughs in italian
What does this mean? Is it already true in Italy?
@@merwan1018 It's pretty common when you ask an Italian abroad where they're from they'll say the city or region, rather than "I'm Italian."
@@merwan1018 In italy we speak in city/region language instead of state language.
Its probably the main reason italy is in such a bad economic position despite being at the center of europe.
the rise of modern city-states is extremely unlikely because the modern city-state would require a nation with a large enough territory in order to feed its people and extract resources. While yes, trade is a viable option as an alternative to growing food and extracting resources yourself, it also means that you need another nation with a large enough territory to trade with. Because of this, you can never have more city-states than the surrounding nations are capable of feeding, and the survival of the city-state is entirely dependent on the very nations with the motivation and incentive to take them over.
The city-states in Greece only survived for as long as they did because they existed at a time where their cities were small enough so that the agriculture that each city had was enough to feed a majority of its citizens. The city-states of the Rennaisance were in a unique position where any empire attempting to conquer them would see a different empire making moves to halt their advance.
Also the need for fresh water. Singapore imports 90% of its food from various countries and 50% of its water from Malaysia.
Vertical farming is still in its' early stages, but in the future it may drastically reduce the land required for agriculture, so it's easier to be used in a city centre or on its' edges.
@@TowerGuy You are forgetting mining and other resources. You can only vertically mine for so long.
Also you must take into account geopolitics - you think countries that remain big will just let it happen? They will invade you for your economic potential and tax revenue, like happened with ancient empires.
You have to understand that modern peace only exists in strong, mostly self-sufficient nations/alliances of nations.
There are constant wars in the middle east and africa because of how weak and dependent they are.
Now imagine if the middle eastern countries unified into a United Arabia - do you thinj they would still have other nations causing civil wars and invading them? No, they would be a local powerhouse, and dominate local politics, trade, and military situation.
They would have a say in everything - that is the point of nations, to unify around a shared identity and culture to become stronger on the world stage.
Are you implying that trade for needs like food and water puts your city state at risk of embargo? Presumably if you have a number of bordering nations, this wouldn't really be much of a problem.
@@KnownNiche1999 unifying into a shared identity that is not Americas or Europe will be almost impossible
After visiting New York City a few years ago, it struck me that it would be a prime candidate for city-state status. It seemed tenuously connected to its "hinterland" in New York state, and its primary economic connection appears to be the global marketplace.
I grew up near Chicago, but Chicago is the chief metropolis of an agricultural region and is more connected to a hinterland. That said, we who grew up in the area would speak of Chicagoland, while everything in the rest of Illinois was lumped together under the vague rubric of "downstate" of which we knew very little. The city shaped our identity far more than the state where it was located.
as a londoner, the vast majority of the time i feel i am a londoner first and a brit second and (having not for a second considered the implications of this) have briefly fantasised about london being a city state
Uk sucks
Same here in Los Angeles. Angeleno > Californian > American.
So many people would be crossing the border every day to go to work in London.
5:21 There is an error on the map.In place of Danzig there is a Stettin. Danzig is more or less between Stettin and Riga.
San Marino: *Exists* - Dave “Monaco and the Vatican are the only City states in the Mediterranean”
San Marino has more than one city within it. Micro nation does not mean city state.
San marino is just a small country
@@aidanmurphy7624 city state means a state (country) that is dominated by one city i would say that Luxembourg, Andorra, San Marino, and maybe Lichtenstein should be included as city states
@@ethanbrown3714A city-state is defined as an independent state that consists of one city. All 4 of these countries have more than one city. For example:
Luxembourg: Luxembourg City and Esch-Sur-Alzette
Andorra: Andorra la Vella and Encamp
San Marino: San Marino and Dogana
Liechtenstein: Vaduz and Schaan
It's not a city-state! There is 9 "castelli" in the STATE of San Marino. And the CITY of San Marino is only the third one by population!
Singapore is the only true city state left in the world. It’s a fully independent nation which has its own military, currency, UN seat, foreign policy and trade policy. None of the others have all of these things.
Getting historical and geopolitical content from this channel was actually great! Would love to see more like this :)
How can you forget San Marino?!
Although they're not true *city* states, I feel like Lichenstien, Luxembourg, Kuwait and Andorra are all small enough and centred around a singular population centre that they might fit some definition of city state.
Luxembourg City makes up 2% of the national area and roughly 20% of the population. Not a city state.
Luxembourg is also the remainder of a larger territory that kept getting carved up, rather than always being a city and suburbs.
It's not a city-state! There is 9 "castelli" in the STATE of San Marino. And the CITY of San Marino is only the third one by population! Like Vaduz isn't either the biggest city of Liechtenstein!
And gibraltar?
@@kennyvandenabeele7155 Gibraltar is not a state, but a part of the United Kingdom.
I’m reminded of the “burbclaves” in Snow Crash: suburban scale city states.
5:16 Where you placed Danzig (now Gdansk) on the map is actually the location of the city of Szczecin in Poland.
Yeah, messed that one up. Sorry!
Singapore is the only fully independent city-state as it has its own defense. If Monaco's defense lays in France, Vatican City and San Marino's lays in Italy, means that they're not fully independent.
But countries like Iceland and Costa Rica, who are many times bigger, don't have defense either, does that mean Iceland and Costa Rica are not fully independent?
@@marcellotenarta5233SM and the Vatican are enclaved in Italy, big difference.
@@lioneldemun6033 There are many enclaved countries like Lesotho, Tajikistan, Mongolia, etc. And he also mentions Monaco which is not enclaved.
@@marcellotenarta5233 MC is semi enclaved
Ah yes Danzig in Stettin
It was kinda pathetic
Indeed. Danzig is further East.
Was looking for this comment.
More city-states means political geography would be much harder to learn
Sounds fun tbh
Wendy's Twitter *cough* Holy Roman Empire *cough*
Let's face it, people aren't learning political geography all that well now lol
Or it might make it easier. Capital of the Republic of NYC is...NYC. Capital of the Republic of London is...London.
Hey there, I just wanted to mention that while you're totally right that the city-state of Carthage ignored its hinterland, that doesn't mean it couldn't be highly productive. It took a lot of development and irrigation, but North Africa under Roman rule was actually the breadbasket of the empire. This is one of the reasons why the loss of the region to the Vandals was such a big blow to Rome.
Just thought I'd mention that in case you weren't aware of it. Still a great video though!
Also idk if Carthage was rlly a city-state either, as a whole the Carthaginian empire functioned through a hugely expansive trade empire of many coastal cities, but also just having control of Sardinia, Corsica, parts of south-eastern Spain, and most of the Morocco-Libya coast. And that meant a lot of cities across the coast from Tunisia to Libya especially, and a lot of their wealth depended on exploiting the local Libyans and their land, even if outside of Carthage they didn’t expand much further than modern-day North Tunisia. They didn’t exactly have the manpower when everything they did depended on mercenaries and trade wealth, both extremely fragile compared to the huge civilian army of Rome, where they really made the best use of their large population. Carthage’s population was a lot smaller, i mean perhaps a few land-owning individuals outside of Carthage, but most of their army was all foreigners, hence the years long Mercenary War when they weren’t able to pay em after losing the First Punic War. Also super fascinating about how effectively the Romans made sure that their population was integrated into their military and politics, and not segregated, is the fact that down the line many Roman emperors could climb the ranks through military service, Constantine was likely born from an Eastern European prostitute, but he was an extremely effective commander. Also there were emperors born in Roman Africa, even a Berber emperor like Macrinus
I think Pyongyang would be a nice city state but I want to remain leader
North Korea is boring. It has no Seoul.
Kim Jong-un Pyongyang would still be the richest country in the world even if detached from the glorious democratic and free Korea!
Gleb Sokolov yes. It has the highest density of sexy leaders per kilometer.
Felix Death Holy crap, are you German? 😂 How did you find this channel and how is your English so good?!
Gleb Sokolov yes. Learned english in school. I‘m watching a lot of history and geography videos.
While Monaco has to make efforts to keep its independence, Singapore had its independence thrusted upon it. It was one of the states of Malaysia until 1965, when an anti-Chinese riot forced the Malaysian federal legislature to pass amendments to their constitution, ejecting the majority-Chinese Singapore from the federation.
Please do a video on what Orania is in South Africa is. Some say it's a town, others say it is a country or Volkstast, others say it's a colony, or even a private estate.
One could argue Brunei, Bahrein and Qatar come cery close to being city states.
Does anyone else think that Vatican City qualifies more as a neighborhood-state rather than a city-state? It's not even big enough to host many of the basic infrastructure elements and was created as a way to separate Church and State in Italy once the Italian Unification wars swallowed the Papal States.
Additionally, which major highly autonomous cities around the world would be most appropriate to transform into official city-states?
Like.. they water, sewage, security, it's all controlled by Italy
Good video.
I have visited Monaco once, and it was cool and beautiful.
The price of 4G network was over twelve times more expensive and when I looked into Real Estate bussineses, apartments usually did cost around € 20,000,000
Carthage formed a sizeable empire by subjugating neighbouring Phoenician city stated and had a sizeable hinterland in north Africa. Also, it's not like the Greek city states didn't try to form empires but the mountainous terrain of Greece made it difficult. It did happen sometimes like with the Athenian Delian league.
Athens as a city state was like a 1000sqkm larger than current day Luxembourg
As someone who lives in the US and who has studied both geography and city planning, I found this video to be timely. I've spent some time in recent years thinking about how metro areas here in the US could be given more power and better represented.
Here in the US, the next highest level of government down from the federal level is at the state level, and we have 50 states. We have several metro areas that transcend state boundaries (e.g. NYC, Philadelphia, DC, Cincinnati, St. Louis, and Kansas City). We also have federally-mandated metropolitan planning organizations (MPOs) that produce documents and conduct exercises such as scenario planning to anticipate future growth and what investments may be needed to accommodate a certain degree of growth.
Since the US doesn't recognize MPOs as a form of government, their efforts and recommendations can easily be ignored by state and local governments, effectively leading to a waste of resources that MPOs are in essence asked to expend in order to put themselves (and the local and county governments that they work with) in a position to receive federal transportation dollars. I find that the state model of governance is outdated; in the case of New Jersey (which is the state that I live in), it could even be interpreted as a conflict of interest. New Jersey is in a unique situation: It is both the most densely-populated state in the US and the only state that is bookended by two metro areas, NYC and Philadelphia. Considering that out of the 21 counties that comprise NJ, 13 and four of them are respectively considered part of the NYC and Philadelphia metro areas, how does this state government address the needs of people within these metros in a way that doesn't compromise the other population? There's only such much money available from the state government, and the NJ citizens that are considered part of the Philadelphia often seem to feel neglected by the lack of state funding sent their way.
I believe that it makes more sense to replace the state level of governance with MPOs for the sake of streamlining operations and transparency between decision-makers and citizens, and conserving resources (e.g. time, money, and human capital). Should this idea be realized, the US might see a nation of city-states.
No, I disagree. The city-state model of government failed precisely because it was worse than nation states. Look at how Germany functioned prior to Bismarck, or Japan prior to Tokugawa.
Returning to a city-state government means everybody outside the city would be completely neglected. Cities generate wealth, and it has no desire to spend it anywhere outside of the city's borders. In a worse case scenario cities would even use their wealth to war (militarily or economically) with other cities, as was the case in the Italian city-states.
In another example, modern Japan's economic collapse could largely be attributed to the city-state model. Tokyo, which houses 1/3rd (and rising) of Japan's population, made its central banks independent of the finance ministry. It artificially induced a shortage in monetary supply in the 90s, then kept the resulting financial crisis going to protect the assets of bankers, and ended up ruining the livelihoods of the majority of the population. A repeat happened in the Great Recession, which wiped out all progress in the 2000s.
City-states are non-commited to a state or national interest. It is a recipe for civil unrest, disenfranchisement, and internal strife. I do understand how having New York be part of 3 different states could be confusing. But allowing it to have autonomy would destroy the livelihoods of the majority population. Unless you want to make it "directly federal controlled" like in the case of DC.
@@jyashin Uh, what? No. Allowing large metropolitan areas to be semi-autonomous would HELP the livelihoods of the 'majority' populations. These people are regularly screwed over by the states they're in because those states gerrymander districts and break up their populations. You get states like Missouri, which ends up a completely Republican dominated state, even though 66.7% of its 6.13 million people lives in 16 urban counties, and the other 33.7% live in 99 practically empty rural counties. Citizens in cities like Kansas City and St. Louis ARE NOT REPRESENTED by the lawmakers in the state.
If we're going to continue to allow the Republican party to play political games with congressional districts, it is IMPERATIVE that cities be given their own voices.
@TheRogueX *black
"Greeks had no intention to expand city-states into larger empires."
Alexander:
1:41 Oh shit, Basel made the list! Just a head's up, Basel-Stadt is the canton (Basel, Riehen, Bettingen) while Basel is the city itself.
This is such a great explanation, I had to come back to it again.
I love thinking about how city states. Would love to see a video about how modern city states/provinces could work and what types of benefits it could create for the city but also the surrounding rural state/province that it was a part of prior to its own statehood.
In its prime, Dubrovnik was one of the richest city-states in the world. Now they are just a part of corrupt Republic of Croatia
RAGUSA
Ragusa
In Germany there are the city states: Hamburg, Bremen (including Bremer Hafen) and Berlin. Lübeck lost its status in 1935 because they were not in line with the ruling party and Hamburg was granted land at that time.
Hamburg, Bremen (Hafen, Harbor) and Lübeck are close to the sea.
Until 1990 West Berlin was an island in a different system. After West and East Berlin were united, the discussion was about integrating Berlin into the surrounding Brandenburg. That failed. But Berlin and Brandenburg have a common airport and a lot of cooperation.
This means that we have 16 federal states in Germany, three of which are actually cities.
Actually San Marino is a remaining city-state also.
Not really. San marino has multiple villages in its boundaries. Conpared to a city state like athens, sparta, or even singapore in the modern day, San Marino isn't as defined by its largest city, which isn't even San Marino. Same with Andorra and Liechtenstein
San Marino is approximately 25 times as large as Monaco. Liechtenstein is about 2.5 times the size of San Marino. And Andorra is comparatively huge at nearly triple the size of Liechtenstein. I would argue only Monaco and Singapore count.
@@larsentosh9710 San Marino is a city state, it definitely was founded as such, and just because it has a few villages surrounding doesn't disqualify it.
@@Aoderic When those "villages" are more populous than the city and the city has less than 15% of the population of the state, it's definitely not a city-state.
@@Quintinohthree So what, what defines a city state is it's government structure, a republic or oligarchy centered on it's founding city, like all the classic and renaissance city states, I would actually disqualify both Monaco and the the Vatican since they are monarchies. That's also what disqualify Andorra, Lichtenstein and Luxembourg. Anyway the Vatican is hardly a city, sure they call it so, but it's just a tiny enclave of Rome set aside for the Pope.
Time is a funny thing. The United States has only been a country for 244 years. The Roman empire lasted ~500 years. The amount of changes to come within the next 200 years is unthinkable.
I take issue with the notion that the Greek city states didn't have imperial aspirations. Athens in particular wasn't shy about expanding its political and economic spheres.
There is Luxembourg, San Marino, Lichtenstein and Monaco and if you really stretch the time the vast majority of the population of Kuwait live in a single city.
Yes but the desert part of Kuwait is big ( 17.000 sqkm , bigger than Lebanon or Montenegro)
5:18 Danzig (Gdańsk) is located about 300 km to the East from where it is in your video
Proto-states proliferated in Western Europe during the Middle Ages, likely as a result of a trend towards political decentralization and the adoption of feudalism. While theoretically owing allegiance to a single monarch under the feudal system, many lesser nobles administered their own fiefs as miniature "states within states" that were independent of each other. According to Eric Hobsbawm, at the time of the 1789 French Revolution, only half of the French people spoke some French, and 12-13% spoke the version of it that was to be found in literature and in educational facilities. During the Italian unification, the number of people speaking the Italian language was even lower. The French state promoted the replacement of various regional dialects and languages by a centralized French language. The introduction of conscription and the Third Republic's 1880′s laws on public instruction facilitated the creation of a national identity under this theory. Some nation states, such as Germany and Italy, came into existence at least partly as a result of political campaigns by nationalists, during the 19th century. In both cases, the territory was previously divided among other states, some of them very small.
Proud member of a city-state (Singapore) right here, Imagine having more than one city in your country lol
Abkhazia in my highly-controversional opinion can be considered as kind of city-state, Sukhum houses more than a third of population (and may be more), the state itself is very small (half a Montenegro or three Luxembourgs), the geographical location is almost impenetrable except from the sea. And it has its own language and culture which also prevents fast integration into either Russia or Georgia.
nah, there're few towns too
south ossetia may be more match to state-cities
Wasn't Alexander the Great's empire the one that brought an end to the first age of city-states, not the Roman Empire?
The ideal of American governance was to localize as much as possible. A return to local and state governments being more important than federal government would be a welcome shift, though I don’t imagine it happening without major disruption
The majority of the modern city state exists only because it boosts the economy of the surrounding country. Monaco for example is thanks to it's Tax heaven policy a hub for rich people. But they still have to do (or let do) their daily shopping. For that they have to go to France. Also all the frence citizen which work or live there have to pay french taxes.
Singapore is similar. Because of it's small size, it's geographical position and history it could develop to a modern power house which boosts passiv it's neighbouring countries Malaysia and Indonesia.
The Holy See is because of the number of catholics a country. Also it brings a lot of tourists to rome.
Andorra and Liechtenstein are a combination of an accident and to low importantcy.
Singapore used to be a rural island off the shores of present-day peninsular/western Malaysia, whose development accelerated later than peninsular/western Malaysia after Sir Stamford Raffles realised Singapore's value (arising from its deep waters & strategic location for maritime trade), & was thus colonised later than peninsular/western Malaysian cities I think (e.g Melaka/Malacca, Penang)
in what universe would a colony like Macau and Hong Kong count as city states in the past
5:15 Danzig (Gdansk) is in a wrong location, unless you meant Szczecin
What ungodly language puts four consonants together?
@@MeidoInHebun in Polish, "szcz" would be read like "shch", so not _that_ complicated
@@thepopulationofkazakhstan1116 Yakshemash
monaco is actually 2nd most densest country behind macau, also it has 2nd most gpd per capita behind liechtenstein
My city is already more important to me than my nation state, I live in NYC.
but the united states is not a nation state
Florian Jongejeugd New York is a state
@@Rita1984 A nation state is a state comprising only one nation the nations and nationalities within the united states are many. Therefore the US cannot be considered a nation state.
Lord he’s not using punctuation, he forgot a comma between nation and state that’s it.
Fun Fact: New York City tried to secede from the nation in 1861 under the mayor Fernando Wood. The mayor sighted that New York City was more in line with the slave-holding south than the union. And yes, the Mayor Fernando Wood was a Democrat.
You forgot about San Marino and Liechtenstein, or was that intentional? Also at 2:34 Malta is included as an example of a city-state, and Malta is still an independent country.
San Marino and Liechtenstein aren't city states
Do never tell someone from Hamburg that Hamburg is not a "real" City-State. You will regret that. Not without reason the official Title still is: FREE and Hansatic City of Hamburg.
Ja junge ihr seid trd ne stinknormale Stadt wie Köln oder München auch, nur der Flair ist besser
@@arnejanett3273 ey theoretisch haben wir genauso viel freiheit wie texas in den usa also sEi LeIsE uNd VeRgLeIcH HaMbUrG nIcHt mIt KöLn
@@guillotineschnapp3862 ich hör nur mimimi
@@arnejanett3273 hAmBuRg IsT dIe GeIlsTe StAdT dEr WeLt UnD iCh AlS hAmBuRgEr wErDe dAs 24/7 aNsPreChEn weNn Ich AußErHaLB vOn HaMBurG bIn
@@guillotineschnapp3862 BERLIN FTW!
Being from a city state (Singapore), I am open to the idea of a new age of city states. But what happens to the hinterland or rural areas? Will they be lawless, stateless "outland"? I can see a symbiotic relationship between the hinterland and the city state. The hinterland provides produce, maybe water and other resources to the city state and the city state provides... Defence? Subsidies to produce crops for the city state? Treated water? So the new age of City States need to have a solution for the Hinterland? Or will all those fall under the state or the federal govt?
Nice Danzig 5:31
What about those 4 rules for other not-real city-states, but still micro states like Andorra, San Marino, Liechtenstein, Luxembourg? Looks like none is on the coast and all have powerful neighbors.
Another great video!
I'd be interested to see a video about the potential pros/cons of a future where city-states become a bigger deal. It's difficult for me to wrap my head around it.
I get so excited when I see uploads from City Beautiful. Keep up the good work dude!
Singapore is literally the dream man. Singapore you did well. Proud of you guys. Kind of envious too
Wasn't Singapore kicked out of Malasia?
Great concept but I wish you had focused more on Singapore rather than Monaco. Monaco is just a tax haven for rich people. Singapore is a nation the size of a true major city (not just a part of one), and has its own national defense, not relying solely on its neighbors
Namely Malaysia.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but even if Hong Kong was fully independent from China it still wouldn't be a city state because Hong Kong isn't a city. I believe the capital of Hong Kong is Victoria and it has a lot of smaller communities. Hong Kong's landscape wouldn't make it ideal to have one entirely interconnected community.
Абдуллоعبدالله Victoria is the capital of British Hong Kong, though the development(with very good transportation system) over time, there is no so-called capital in Hong Kong anymore. And the people in Hong Kong have strong identity of Hong Kongers, which you can see in recent protest.
@@thegreatbeyond289 I mean having an identity doesn't necessarily determine whether it's a city or a greater land mass. For example Serbia and Armenia both are places with strong unifying identity, but that doesn't make them a super large city. In southern Ontario we have very populous area called The Golden Horseshoe, which is also largely connected by a rail system, people from Hamilton can go to work in the Toronto, but almost no one would consider The Golden Horseshoe a city.
Is their only one governing branch in Hong Kong, similar to Monaco and Singapore? Or is it divided up between small municipal governing branches?
Edit: Replaced "governing body" with "governing branch," they are two different things.
@@Абдулло-щ3е9э metro areas could be considered a "city". Its vague, but considering we loosely use the term all the time, hk could be a city-state
Hong Kong wouldn't fit the any of the four criteria presented in this video to be a valid city-state either.
1) Hong Kong is at the mouth of the Pearl River, but this area is actually Guangzhou's domain, not Hong Kong's. Yes, Cold War politics allowed Hong Kong's port to gain an artificial advantage, but as the Cold War is gone, control of the Pearl River naturally returned to Guangzhou.
2) Hong Kong is not a trade center, but a finance center. And its finance is dependent on China's finance. It's in the same situation as NYC, but with even less importance.
3) Hong Kong is not defensible at all. During China's war with the UK, Qing forces actually captured Hong Kong island and built an outpost there. When the British came to take back the island, they found it completely deserted.
4) Obviously Hong Kong is extremely close to a world power.
Абдуллоعبدالله yes, there is a Hong Kong SAR government. All the 18 districts are under administration of Hong Kong government, share same airport and port
Hong Kong use Hong Kong Money(other than Chinese RMB), applying Hong Kong law(other than China law), has our own immigration department(yes, The people from mainland China could not enter Hong Kong freely unless they apply a “visa” and cross the border control), China police cannot enforce law in Hong Kong. Furthermore, Hong Kong is a separate customs territory. In any sense, Hong Kong is a city rather than different the combination of small cities/towns.
New age of City States eh?
*La Serenisima intensifies*
I think it would be interesting to see modern city-states, or perhaps even territories composed of confederations of city-states. I'm not aware of any realistic movements in that direction at this time, but it would be fascinating.
When he said "the internet could be the new mediterranean" I imagined people going into war over the control of the internet :)
Could happen, the way the internet is structured is surprisingly political. Control over key connections and nodes could give one control over the flow of information across countries and continents.
Some cities are beautiful and awesome because of the countryside that surrounds those cities that feed and support the city and made them beautiful. you just cannot divorce the City with the surrounding countryside and say that a city by itself can be a self sufficient state. I think you think like those people who diss places around a glamorous city like New Jersey, San Fernando Valley, East Bay, and forget that these adjacent countryside helped to make the city great and beautiful. Just like we shouldn’t forget people doing thankless jobs everyday to make our lives easier.
NYC has Long Island and Upstate. NJ not needed.
New Jersey is little more than a New York/Philadelphia suburb masquerading as a state.
“When a city is more important to our identity than our country”
You picked the right city for the back drop 😂. We Chicagoans definitely have a lot of pride in our city. As it is, when firefighters or cops pass away, many are buried with a Chicago flags. I have honestly seen more people with tattoos of the Chicago flag than any other tattoo.
Yup, living in Chicago now. I don't even know what the Illinois state flag looks like, but absolutely know the Chicago flag. I wonder how many people would actually think the Chicago flag is actually the state flag.
It is a great looking flag, though.
@@OneEyeShadow Yup.
_CM Punk approves this comment_
It seems like Chicago (and possibly New York City too) have made such a strong name for themselves that the rest of their respective states are irrelevant to the global picture.
I think what is needed for a city-state aside from what’s mentioned in the video is as follows:
-A strong sense of identity (many cities that aren’t sovereign states already have that).
-Size, and I mean both in the context of population and land area, to ensure some level of expansion (though for the latter, if they really wanted more land, then they can use land reclamation like the already existing city-state of Singapore)
-Good transit. I don’t need to say more except if you want to learn more, I suggest you look into Solarpunk and urbanism.
In hindsight, I think that the corona-crisis has shown that there are definitely drawbacks to urbanisation.
The drawbacks of anything other than urbanisation is that you would need a world the size of Jupiter to accommodate 8 billion people in this idyllic, close to nature, countryside living people have an emotional attachment to
I think that was established during teh black dead and spanish flu
@@fresagrus4490 Absolutely, but it could also be argued that there are really a lot of humans compared to some other species of mammal, many of them threatened with extinction. Don't get me wrong: I'm not arguing in favour of genocide. But if you believe in metaphors (which I don't, by the way), perhaps it's Mother Nature's way of saying "slow down a little".
It’s because mansa musa is sending trade routes through Monaco for sure
4:28
Rom: "All your City-states are belong to us!"
Most city-states tend to be tax havens or have low taxes.
City states have no taxes because they are afraid of losing good productive people. Big states tax as much as they can because they think productive people can not runaway. Small states are built on defensive purposes with forts and walls. Big states are built on prison like purposes to prevent the people from running away.
London (City of London or central London) could definitely become a city state
The City of London should be abolished and turned into a regular borough of London.
8:17 I'm already in that era, since I hate my country, but I love my city, and I wish people respected me for telling them my city when they ask and not my country. Maybe it's only in my case, but there's a strong contrast between my city and the rest of the country.
I like how you represented the northern city-states with Catan lol
I'm from an area outside of Liverpool called the Wirral, but largely we identify with the 'scouser' label. There's a saying, 'Scouse not English', and it definitely echoes with a lot of people that the identity of our city is more important than that of our country. The North West has always been politically separated from the South, so we feel disconnected from it.
Nice Catan reference.
You can tell the city-states are serious because they don't waste time with sheep.
Yeah dont understand those people going for expansion over development
Some experts say that Malta also qualifies as a city state, because the whole island functions as one urban area.
5:10 Danzig is where Sczecin is!
I loved this one thanks. I think we’re on the verge of more city states.
Yeah, I think the futurw will include many city-states on the ocean and seas. Floating o artificial islands and their economy. Their economy, industey and sometimes their own existens would be heavily realying on the latest of technologies.
I actually really do want these cities to become more autonomous. I feel like it needs to happen in some areas. I lived near Chicago and Southern Illinois is FOREIGN to me, but Chicagoland is it's own boarder. This would make a few thinks easier. I agree with the Atheneans though too, government needs to be at such a scale that you can interact with it and grasp it's limits to participle
I live in "Chicagoland" and I kinda agree. I feel like maybe not different "States" but having very different sets of laws between urban and rural areas could do a lot to help our nation.
They do already. Many laws only apply to Cooks county. Same in New York State, even taxation is different if you live in NYC and Yonkers than in Upstate New york.
I think one thing to consider on the future city states is that historically many of them thrived by monopolizing a particularly valuable resource that was local to them or by closely controlling the production of desirable products. This gave them economic and thus political leverage. Increased global trade and eventually industrialization brought an end to that. In a 21st century of global information sharing, science and post-industrial production the playing field is too level for one city to completely dominate an area of resources or production that way and thus provide them with a buffer against larger states.
San Marino breaks almost every rule mentioned.
I don't think San Marino counts as a city state
I think it is categorized as a micro nation
@@merwan1018 I thought micronations were places like Sealand that didn't have UN recognition.
@@RRW359 not gonna lie I don't know and I don't feel like checking on internet so I'll take your word
The existence of a city states tends to depends on the mood of the large countries next to them...like no matter how rich/populated ur city is, a fully fledged country and it's far larger army can crush u sooner or later. Like even ur armu so far more well armed, ur lack of sufficient agricultural output, and lack of Strategic depth means any prolonged conflict will ended up horribly for the city
that map of possible American city states was rly cool
city states like states that are cities
Have you found a source for that map yet?
I am not sure where he found that picture, but there was a post on proximity one that showed the same thing but only the top 25 CSA's although it is now out of date. Looks like he might have just done the largest MSA's though.
I just took screenshot
My favorite video on TH-cam yet! Keep up the astounding work!
Which city could best make the transition to city-state? Any nominations?
Hongkong
New York City or Long Island as a whole
Cork in Ireland wouldn't be too bad. We have the second largest natural harbour in the world and would be inside of a neutral country. The biggest problem would be defense as the city is located in a flat enough area with only a few small hills.
Dubrovnik in Croatia was the maritime Republic of Ragusa before and the area of Dubrovnik is geographically separate from the rest of Croatia so it could be a great city state with lots of tourism.
City Beautiful Gibraltar. It’s right on the entrance to the Mediterranean and with Brexit happening it might be better for it to become its own city state
As a native New Yorker I identify with my city far more than my country. I am proud to say I’m from New York. Many Americans do not share my values which makes me embarrassed to be called an American.
I am from upstate NY and wonder why you New Yorkers think the world revolves around NYC? Seems rather arrogant
Brian JOnker it seems like you added your own frame to my words. However, NYC is a mega city, a world city,. It’s the only world clty in the Unitrd States. Other world cities, London, Paris, Tokyo are examples. This is not arrogance. It’s recognition that our way of life is different. But none of that has anything to do with my in initial comment.