Kamasu Killer? Is This Citizen The New Affordable Diver Benchmark?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ก.ย. 2024
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So, is the new/old Citizen Promaster the new #1 in arffordable big braqnd Japanese auto divers? Well, if you want to go diving, yes, if you just want an every day watch, probably the Kamasu still edges it. Cheers! Jody
There was a time when us Citizen die-hards always kind of knew that Seiko was a bit ahead… those days are long gone. Makes me so happy to see Citizen grabbing their new success, my favorite brand of all time.
💯
Citizen for the win!
I strongly disagree. The citizen promaster diver was always better then the skx in every way. The only thing the skx had was the brand name and modding.
@@user-qw2nd4oy3j You’re strongly disagreeing with something that wasn’t said in the comment to which you’ve replied. If I’m wrong, show me where in the comment that the SKX was mentioned.
@@zplapplap did you watch the video? The entire video is based on the skx being the standard for which all budget dive watches should strive for. My argument is that the skx was never the best in the budget dive watch category. The citizen pro master diver was always better.
Citizen has been offering excellent models lately in terms of design as well as quality.
But they're still cheapin' out on the crystal!! C'mon Citizen grow up!!
Citizen has always provided the best diver’s watches for the money. I was a PADI divemaster and we all appreciated the Citizen divers. I have more of those in my collection than any other brand.
I received a 8204 Citizen Promaster Diver’s watch NY0040-17L and love it.
why so? can you give an arguments?
I always loved Citizen, for Eco-Drive, if nothing else. Now, they are holding their own in the automatic movement world. Well done Citizen!
They are absolutely not new in automatic movements.. they have been making them for decades... They own MIYOTA.. are you new with watches? 🤨
So happy for Citizen these days. Such an underrated brand. If you’ve ever spent any time working any type of job actually in or near water you’ll find Citizen is really the only “traditional” watch brand that has held up. Long gone are the days of divers and sailors wearing Rolex, Omega, hell, even Seiko sadly, but you’ll still see at least an Aqualand or an NY0040 or two on most marinas. They really embody the power of no flash, humble word of mouth marketing.
Indeed. They are now the brand that I recommend to 'non-WIS' when asked. Just get an eco-drive, they make so much sense.
On the diver’s watch front their diver’s are still issued to some countries’s naval frogmen.
As for being underrated they certainly are. When it comes to innovative Japanese watchmaking it is Casio and Seiko never really Citizen despite some Japanese firsts such as calendar watches, shock resistance and water resistance. The international innovations such as the Citizen Chryston in 1973 which would gain or lose three seconds a year, the first solar watches in 1976, the aqualand diver in 1985 which I think is more innovative than the Seiko Arnie, atomic watches and solar diver’s in the 1990’s and most recently the 0010 calibre losing or gaining a second a year.
Citizen dive watches unlike Orient are ISO dive watches.
1960’s to 1980’s Seiko dive watches used lockable crowns rather than screw down, Citizen divers of 1960’s to 1980’s used screw down crowns.
@@OscarOSullivan not to mention the first titanium watch in 1970 with the X-8. The first water resistant watch from Japan with the Parawater in 1959 … even the watch in this very video can trace its design lineage all the way back to 1963 with the Parawater 120m, a whole two years before Seiko’s 62MAS (which this will inevitably be unfairly compared to). Hopefully someday a big visible watch publication will give Citizens history a fair retrospective as they really quietly pioneered a lot more than they’re given credit for. Till then they remain a real “if you know you know” gem in watch collecting
as someone who works on water and with boats, im still flying the flag for several brands with the Kamasu, a couple of Prospex divers and a citizen promaster
Casio waveceptor or a lineage model is also a good Choice.
I've been wearing the grey one for about 3 weeks. No complaints on my 7 3/4" wrist. Perfect dimensions.
The only problem is that the bezel action, although great when dry, sucks cock in salt water.
I took it diving twice and it really is terrible underwater.
Edit- forgot to mention it's running consistently at +4 spd.
I ended up popping off the bezel and playing with the springs that govern the ratcheting mechanism. Feels a bit better now but not really satisfactory for use in salt water.
For me this one scratches two itches - yellow watch and a 62mas style watch. Love those thick square markers. Mine has the same negative - too weak lume on hands. About the solid yellow dial someone mentioned - I think it would be worse for legibility. With this style, as it becomes darker to edges, markers are still in contrast. I use divers extension as quick adjust, very useful if wrist swells up. The case could be 1mm thinner, the bezel is too tall for no reason. And it's still hard to grip, too slippery.
There are negatives, but if Seiko made it, it would cost $400, not $250.
For those wondering : " Diver's " is an actual label part of the ISO certification, that means that every watch produced is tested for the 200M WR, compared to other dive watches, where a few watches are tested from each batch.
You will find it written on chinese brands too sometimes, but they are not submited to such procedures, it's just a word.
And must reach a specified magnetic, shock, temperature and condensation resistance.
Also 100 metres water resistance is the minimum.
Got proof to bavk up your claim about the apostrophe? I can't find that definitively outlined anywhere.
I think the dive extension is great for micro adjustments. It's really nice to just extend the clasp a click or two when your wrist swells, you don't even have to take the watch off.
I like it, but I just can’t get past the Mercedes hand. It stopped me from buying a couple of other citizen models. I know they’ve been using it for a long time, but it just looks at a place to me..
Agree, especially in combination with that dinky arrow minute hand, not into this handset at all. Such a pity, citizen always mess up the details.
Almost picked one of these up a few months ago, but not a fan of the mercedes hands. Also, no sapphire. The Kamasu is still a better option imo.
Better, as a desk diver yes. If you're going in the sea but don't wanna risk your Seamaster, or cover your forearm in a Suunto, this is absolutely the benchmark for the money, I adore mine. Best watch purchase I've made. Is it better than an SK003? No. But it's as good as everything that's not an SK003 IMO.
@@TCL_Dasler Valid! Thanks for your input 👍
@@TCL_Dasler Welp, 99% of mechanical divers are desk divers as divers mostly using diving computers nowadays, and not really interested in fragile mechanical timepieces. Submariner also doesn't have ISO certification which won't make it lesser diver watch though, the same goes for Kamasu - they are most likely will survive the same amount of sub-200m dives as Citizen.
Bought the black dial variant a few weeks ago, and I’ve been wearing it since then! Of the three models mentioned I prefer the looks of this model, case profile etc. The SKX/5KX design is also iconic, and the 38mm looks great!
I really really appreciate you playing the bezel audio in this and your last few dive watch reviews. I don't dive but I use the bezel a lot and I know what how I want it to sound and feel, and you playing that audio legitimately informs my decisions more than I care to admit.
I’m a convert already. I bought all three classic SKX’s…black, Pepsi and orange before their demise and then later a red Kamasu. Fast forward a couple years and I’ve recently added these NY012x Citizens with the blue on bracelet and the burnt orange on rubber. Do like that dirty yellow though. Thanks Jody, by following you I’ve learned to anticipate trends.
Nice, but I'm watching this while wearing an SKX, and this isn't going to replace it!
I have this clasp. The extension is great, but the sharp edges on the rounded part of the clasp hinge are rough. The first one left deep red scratches by end of day. Bad enough that I exchanged for another one, only to find the same problem. I ended up sanding the edge down. Love it otherwise.
I was saying that Citizen is the new benchmark for affordable watches since a couple of years. Amazing watch, great specs, and the price is right 👍🏽
Thanks Jody for the great video.
Can't argue with this at all. If Seiko made this it would be £600+
I just bought a "The Citizen" and holy smokes am I impressed. Stunningly beautiful and unlike GS, I can actually get a good fit on the bracelet. I can see why you like yours so much
This watch is being highly praised by everyone i know that has it. I myself have been wearing the traditional NY0040, which is absolutely wonderful. I think Citizen and Orient are the best bang-for-the-buck watch brands out there.
It’s a very good, classic looking watch! What a shame about the size… especially the lug to lug.
These are anywhere between $50-100 cheaper than the Kamasu where I am so they honestly do look more appealing to me as an option for an affordable dive watch. I also honestly kinda prefer the dial options of the Citizen over pretty much every Kamasu dial except the red.
I wish the blue came on a blue strap but I've seen these as low as £160 over here, just don't know which colour to buy😂 Could live without the day date too. Great vid as usual.
On paper 13.8mm thick doesn't sound terrible but I always think these look really top heavy! A bit of a shame really, I like everything else about it.
I like it but its too long at 50mm lug to lug. The Orient Kamasu has the same 41mm diameter but only 47lug to lug and it has sapphire and lastly its cheaper. I'll keep my Kamasu and consider a Mako 3 when that lowers to about $200.
It’s a great little watch. A good alternative to the Kamasu. “We moaned, we wailed,” we put on women’s clothing. Ah the good old days before Jody became a respectable businessman. Ha! Thanks for the great review.
😂😂😂
If this had sapphire it would be the absolute best affordable dive watch in the market. As it stands, idk. It's either the Kamasu for the sapphire or this one tor the solid endlinks and awesome clasp. I guess we (still) cant get it all at this price point.
Still happy you finally found Citizen!
Why would Citizen create a dive watch with a 50.5mm lug-to-lug? Clearly that's not what anyone is looking for these days. Otherwise it's a great watch, but they definitely need to get that L2L down in the 46mm range ASAP.
I have owned this for 6 months. The size is great for me and perfectly contours my wrist.
I love my Kamasu
Agree with your final verdict. The mineral glass is a deal breaker.
As a Seikoholic (One of my German Shepherds is named Seiko)- my last 2 watches have been Citizens.
The Challenge (Barnacle) and the NY0040-9E.
I LOVE THEM!!!!
I have owned the NY025 you previously reviewed Jody for about 2 years now I imported it from Japan. I can tell you that divers extension is a god send on a hot summers day when your wrist swells. Plus this watch looks killer on a rubber strap it really brings down the proportions.
Especially waffle
@@OscarOSullivan wear mine on a black waffle 👍🏻
Seiko forgetting why they are where they are and Citizen awakening from their design and marketing slumber to take their spot is what we all needed I reckon.
I have the blue. It is nice, it improves the bezel insert and crown over the more expensive Fujitsubo. Still I go back to the NY0040 and NY0085. Perfect size for my 7 inch wrist. This NY0120 is not too large, but it would look better with a slightly smaller dial, like the Fujitsubo. The Kamasu lugs look too thin to accommodate a 22mm bracelet. Orient Mako was my first watch of my adult life, but I like Citizen Promasters better (not all of them).
I prefer the first generation fugu’s the NY0040 series on design and size wise
Indeed I hang on to my Fugu from 2018. Sizing is perfect for me.
@@OscarOSullivan the ny0040 is not a fugu. The fugus do not have round indices. There is also the ny0140, and similar, they look like the ny0040 but 2mm larger, sapphire crystal and the hands like the fugu. All fugus are promasters, but not all promasters are fugus. The fugus’s hands mask them a bit more legible than the ny0040 promasters
So, it’s a Fujitsubo in stainless steel instead of titanium. Some minor tweaks, but it looks pretty much identical. I had the titanium version but ultimately sold it. I could never get the bracelet to fit without micro adjust and if i set it up so I had to have the extension out a little bit, the extension would always grab onto my clothes with the sharp corners. Oh well.
Its funny that this video popped up while I am wearing my green dial version of this watch. Its killer for under $200
Bought the orange one back in September. While it's a great watch in many aspects, especially for what it can offer for the pricepoint, there are bunch of tiny details that bug me.
For example, the hands feel mismatched with the dial and watch size, like, they feel just proportionally bit too small (especially the minute hand, just too thin and flimsy), and honestly if they had just used the "barnacle diver" hands/proportions on this watch, it would been perfect.
While the movement is old, at very least they had the sense of giving it the hacking function.
The glass being mineral isnt that huge deal, when its set quite recessed and is somewhat protected by the bezel, but the odd "half domed" look just gives a somewhat cheap feel, compared to sharp beveled edge like on the SKX or the Citizen barnacle.
I have no idea if these watches are actually diver's ISO rated, because having had the watch open, the gaskets are pitifully flimsy, compared to a SKX...
Really just, watch feels like a discount edition of the Citizen Barnacle, but with dial colours that should've been an option on the Barnacle.
I like my Citizen diver (without the apostrophe S). I wish I had a Kimastu, but just can’t justify that purchase when considering my other divers. I really like the convenience of the Eco-drive. I wish I had a Seiko SKX too. The size of this Citizen ultimately was my turn off.
Very nice, but I still like my Kamasu, the sapphire crystal makes the difference for me, the size, and the price. Not ISO-certified, but I don't dive anyway. I also read that professional divers don't really use dive watches anymore in their dives, it's all done by computer.
Anyway, some may like the Citizen colors, and I'm happy for them, Citizen is a great brand.
These big name companies should make sapphire standard, aliexpress watches have that mostly, sapphire or synthetic sapphire is not really expensive these days, they shouldn't make it a feature only found in their top tier lines. Citizen did come out with a low-price GMT watch with sapphire only to be found in Japan with about the price of a kamasu, but it sold out so quick and totally disappeared from sales.
Bought the blue one for myself for Christmas, what a fantastic feeling piece
I also have the Kamasu, red, and the Citizen only loses to it on the crystal not being sapphire to be honest
Not sure if my lume test at home was too accurate, but the lume on my Citizen beats the one on the Orient (which was surprising)
I think the hour markers are pressed. ISO 6425 Divers tend to have them pressed so they cannot fall off. Correct me if I am wrong.
I own the NY0129 on bracelet. I bought it from Amazon when they offered it for $199 on the special invitation deal . I love this watch. It definitely is a watch that is competing with Seiko and Orient divers .
I wish they'd have gone with solid yellow.
Would be stunning! 👏
I really like this one. I saw someone else review the same colorway recently. I like the yellow.
Jody: "I hope something can eventually de-throne the Kamasu"
Erebus: Hold my beer.....
Ha! Not quite the same category! Japanese Big Brand we ain't!
@@JustOneMoreWatch But comparing the watches side-by-side, on their own merits...?
I've got a 5KX, and a Kamasu, and I recently got this Citizen in green. They're all just different enough that one of each is nice to have.
Having had the Kamasu, I agree. The only weaknesses were the bracelet and small crown. The dial and hands were nice and legible. This Citizen's bracelet on the Kamasu would take it to the next level.
Two points that speak for the Citizen: It can be serviced (at least in Europe, there is no Orient service AFAIK). And the movement can be fine tuned to +1/+2 sec. on the wrist.
A bit too thick for my liking but looks great and I'm sure the bracelet is the best out of the 3 mentioned. I'm looking for a dive style watch with at least 200m resistance so i'll take a look at this one as well.
Plan on breaking some diving records wearing it?
@@tomskimcdouglegaming806 not really. Just need a screw down crown for peace of mind.
@@tomskimcdouglegaming806 although if I was going for a diving record i'd spend the money on an aliexpress monstrosity I saw recently that had like 25000m WR.
gotta say, this style of bracelet (it's on my bn0150 as well) is *excellent*
feels quality and not cheap at all
For me, the Citizen is the clear winner. The dial, the screw down crown, and the ISO rating win it for me. That's why I just bought it and slapped a beads of rice on it. (Mine came on rubber)
That fade dial really is appealing and it’s good to see the overall quality and feature set is competitive. Kind of a gritty movement, though… and I would hope it could be regulated to come in a bit tighter than that. Overall a serious contender I think. Cheers!
Please review the new Citizen Promaster GMT’s - they look stunning, with an aircraft fuselage inspired bezel design.
The watch is really nice and I would have bought it if it was a'little bit smaller. But the best diver around 250 is still a citizen IMHO (provided that you are OK for that price to have a solar watch) : the promaster eco drive divers are amazing (the military green and the unite blue with this very nice iridecent dial are awsome)!
Nice looking watch , like this dial if I didnt already have an SNZH55 K1( 100m no screwdown crown) and a Kamasu (really good at actually telling the time, doesn't have the massive tolerances of the Seiko or this Citizen) I could be tempted . So close.
Hi Jody. Agree with you for the Kamasu but, I sold mine (with regret) because the smallness of the crown compared to the crown guards bothered me visually. Good Sunday. 🤘
I've got this watch. It's never off my wrist. On a tropic it's outstanding. About £200 for an Auto 62MAS/SkX slayer? How could you not? It's fan tastic!!
Personally I think the Promaster logo would make a fantastic counter balance on that seconds hand or to replace the tip of the Mercedes hour hand.
I've got the bronze version on rub and it always gets compliments from watch and non-watch people.. great review as always!
Always enjoy your reviews! This one is very reminiscent of the 62mas. Unfortunately for me, I have no desire to purchase a Citizen watch. This is not based on any factual data, just my own personal preference. For some reason I don’t tend to be drawn to their watches.
how can it compare? no sapphire crystal?
For $50 extra!
Mercedes hands, too big lug to lug, mineral crystal, it's a no from me. My original version Kamasu still wins over this, although I prefer the Boderry Titanium that I picked up on Ali which is probably heresy.
This is the first watch I bought new. The orange one on rubber. Just liked it too much, coudnt wait a few months to save some cash like I usually do. Something stunning about this design I dont usually find in rhis price range
The only Citizen diver I seem to like is my blue Promaster Eco-Drive. It a great looking grab and go watch with decent lume and build quality. Every other dive watch of theirs seems to have something about it that is a complete deal breaker for me, and in this particular case it's the handset. I'm just not a fan of the Mercedes hour hand and the minute hand, to me, doesn't stylistically match the hour hand. The rest of the watch seems great, but unfortunately that handset just totally kills it for me.
But, as always, thanks for the great review!
Cool watch but not crazy about the deep dial. Not something I usually attribute to quality
Citizen eco drive never needs a battery, solar powered,awsome watch,had mine for 15years now and it's a divers watch, that's it Mrs. Doubtfire 😂.
Have the copper color case model. Love the watch but the color isn’t working out. eBay it goes, but I’ll be getting a plainer model
Nice overall package; however, my biggest complaint would be the skinny arrow minute hand
Nice diver extention on the watch band. Not as unique as the promaster with crown at 8o'clock, which rumor said is the citizen 'skx' to be discountined soon...
Kamasu is good but I think the slightly larger Triton mini is the better watch. Out of these two I'd take the Citizen. The bracelet and ISO certification offset the lack of sapphire crystal.
13.8mm thick is terrible and mineral crystal lol so fail.
It's a tool watch, mineral crystal will scratch but not shatter, which is what you want if you're spending this amount and actually using it for its intended purpose, there's a reason why Citizen is so popular at this price point with divers and people who work in the industry
mineral crystal, while more impact resistant than sapphire, will shatter. I know from first hand experience. That excuse needs to stop being used. Especially for this asking price. @@zephyrdan
Good video. I myself purchased a King Samurai. For a bit more money it serves as the "new SKX" for me. Cheers.
I think you dont remeber about the better watch than SKX - Citizen NY0040 - 3:10 - 3 watches on the right. It is also ISO certifited and is hackable and hand winding, it is better than SKX and its avaiblabe on the market. Kamasu ihas sapire but NY0040 is cheaper and has divers extensions.
Nice, but that lug to lug is just too long for me.
I wanted to do a review video of this watch on my channel but you have just done a killer job going over the details. Great little watch. I especially like the Mercedes nod on the hour hand. I might have to order one after all for the collection.
Thanks for whetting my appetite Dr Jody... I have 5 citizen dive watches.... The yellow might be my 5th👍
Please tell Citizen to increase hand length on Promaster Diver Eco-Drive. It would be the perfect watch.
Very good review as always. Everything is covered in the best way. - And the sound of the bezel action is like music to my ears. Not the best music in this case ;-) but its a budget diver and not a Tudor Pelagos. Thanks you Jody.
Hey Jodie! If you get the Chance you should Review a Guinand Watch. The Company was owned by Helmut Sinn After he sold Sinn Watches. Good stuff for a good price. Greetings from Germany.
I have a orient or two of my collection. The one I’m wanting now is the one that is the Outdoor star or something like that
Orient mako 40 would be the kamasu killer IMO.. citizen's lug to lug is quite large at 50mm.. i love Orient's 46-47mm lug to lug
Watching this review while wearing a Fujitsubo, the watch you dismissed. It’s wonderful and a nato strap monster.
This Citizen is the only that reminds me of th SKX.
Maybe the shape of the bezel?
Anyways, I like it a lot.
...
Cannot recall any ISO cert 20bar diver with sapphire on the front
and a display case back.
So no worries there.
I recognise my bias towards micros here, I like micros and own mostly micros. But they are out performing big brands across the board. I just can't see the value in a big brand especially when at this end of the price spectrum you'd lose as much, or more, on reselling this watch compared to (some) micro brands. And Helm as an example is ISO if that's your bag
Citizen & Orient (which I possess) - Great Dive watches here, but where are the GMT versions!?! 🥝🐐
Their lume is very inconsistent have a few of their divers and the hands, in particular are sloppily done. Not an even coat. Still love them though.
A nice clasp a nice clasp!!! I’m growing more and more convinced the threshold of a truly full featured, trimmed watch is $200+. What a winner! (I’m ignoring the moans and niggles for self care purposes). Nicely done Citizen. Thanks Jody!
As a long time Seiko fan, and owner of an Orient Kamasu I was taken by Citizens Eco-Drive for a pick up and go timepiece. My head was well and truly turned.. I now have a mixed collection of 20+ models from Seiko, Citizen, Nite, Orient, Casio (including G-Shocks) and most recently Christopher Ward. Apart from the Casio's the Orient feels the cheapest because it is. It's still a great watch but my Citizens are far better than the Kamasu.
Not available in the UK for some reason.
Cracking! This is what Citizen could be doing and should be doing in order to revive their bonafides with collectors and aficionados. This is a legit durable tool that has some nice good looks.
I think you can get a Divers 200 with solar quartz from Citizen for a little less money. I think that the automatic is a good price actually for what you get. Seiko Divers 200 watches are expensive for what you get, many over 1000 USD. I have a couple 200-meter water resistance watches but they are not ISO or pressure tested. The Seiko 5kx many are near 250 to over 300 for a low-end Seiko model that I think is grossly overpriced. Orient in my opinion is one of the best value watches for the money.
I was tempted to get this watch but for just $200 more I got the Fujitsubo Challnge Diver, you labeled as "Meh" ,😂 and couldn't be happier. I haven't been able to take it off my wrist since getting it from Jomashop. Great video as always Jody!
Agree with the remarks about Seiko, they're asleep. I also think Citizen makes great watches, but this one is just not for me. Love the dial, but the case is odd with that lug shape and 50+ length. It also might just be me, but the bezel steel color looks off in comparison to the case and bracelet. Great video!
I own the watch and its a fun watch. Citizen is reclaiming Seiko's spot in this segment of the market.
Jody, when you say you removed 1 and a half links, is that in total or on each side? Thanks for another great video. Congrats on the new home!
I'd be buying the seiko turtle or citizen fugu on sale in front of any 5KX, Orient or this variant of the citizen promaster every time..
Great watch, i still prefer the Kamasu aesthetically, but this is another option to consider.
i still have the ORIENT trident/neptune i think its their best
I'm just not a fan of mercedes hands. Not sure why, they just don't do anything for me. I prefer snowflake hands.
Also, any chance of a review on the San Martin Aqua Terra? (SN0113W-2) I just got one as a birthday present and I love it.
does this model comes with the famous miyota wobble,as well?