This is really good. I have watched the podcasts of Inigo with Peter Attia, Simon Hill, and GCN. This interview and presentation, for me as a Master's athlete, has been the most helpful. Again, well done and thank you!
I've heard Inigo explain Z2 on Fasttalk, Attia, GCN, and more, and always pick up a nugget. Last year I went from 175 W to 205W Z2 SS and felt strong. Unfortunately, I neglected my top end and didn't see near the improvements. ... But this year, ,💪👍. Thanks Dirk, great interview!
Big fan of Inigo. However, I wish he'd produce a chart showing his Zones. He spoke of switching gears from Zone 1 to Zone 2 at the point just past FatMax, which suggests VT-1/LT-1, which makes sense. But, then he goes on to say how important it is to train in Zone 2. This seems inconsistent. Is the threshold between Zone1 and Zone 2 or between Zone 2 and 3. A graphical representation of his zones would be very useful, IMHO. Regardless, it's always informative to listen to this amazing man.
ปีที่แล้ว +2
My interpretation is that he was talking about switching gears from Zone 1 to Zone 2 in 3 zone model where VT1 and VT2 are the separators between zones and when he said it's important to train in zone 2, that's in the 6 zone model he's using.
you guys shoud segment the videos :) i listened this in spotify, but as always need to replay few times when inigo is speaking, so much information packed into such short time..
40:45 one thing he doesn't clarify is the likelihood of burnout from too much focus on the Glycolytic pathway. Training at high intensity activates the fight or flight response and the sympathetic nervous system which if done on every ride will lead to plateau burnout and likely sickness. Hence the 80:20 distribution.
Gold interview, thank you! Would like to ask, What influance does cadance training have on different metabolic zones and how it affects our biochemistry metabolism - mitochondrial functions and so on? For example is doing a zone 2 trainging with 70-80 rpm will stimulate our musce fibres and mitochondia same as the same zone 2 trainging executed with 90-100rpm? Thanks!
for a given power, with gears, it happens this: low rpm goes along with high force & high rpm goes along with low force. it's like a paradox, since low speed goes with high strength & high speed goes with low strength... so, what is mitochondria doing, which situation likes best for getting better fuel to eat and develop? :-)
@@mirceaandreighinea ya, i got you, althought when going with lower rpm = lower bpm than going with same power and higher candence. Does this mean less lactate is produced? It's a very interesting topic, especialy since majority of best pros started doing strenght cadence traing.
@@Nick_007ia very interesting topic, indeed, since there is no consensus regarding the cadence (for a given power/speed). we see max-top riders being so different, all kind of riders (big, small, GC, time trial, flat, climb, etc, etc), and their rpm could be low as 72 or high as 98. it's not something small... the difference translates into quite higher force/speed... yep, very interesting subject... an old one that still needs to be discovered. again, not talking about bla bla bla, but what we can really see and measure - like 72 versus 98, well, that's really something.
I think it makes little to no difference based upon Z2 as he is using HR to guide the low intensity zone training sessions. So he is looking at the input metric (HR) to guide the training stimulus rather than the output (watts) - so if ride at 80 or 100 your keeping the HR in a stable zone to build the mitochondria.
Check his interview at hat Triathlon Show, episode 262. He does not believe in it, says it is a trend, it is highly stressful, and that there are no studies showing it improves mitochondria performance.
@@marcelomenezes8488 it improves the mitochondria performance at burning fatty acids and there are studies showing fasting improves mitochondrial function and efficiency and mitophagy.
First, thanks for this very interesting interview. It’s always great to listen to Iñigo. But there’s one thing that I don’t understand in his approach and that’s the testing and his focus on lactate. As he says himself it’s very indirect and you have to wait quite long for a steady state. So why not test with a CPET and focus on CO2 and O2? The Wassermann 9 plots give you a lot of information and it’s very direct as CO2 is discarded as fast as possible. Also with a breath by breath measurement you get very accurate graphs, because you have so much more data than with lactate. This is what I do as a sport physician. It’s very easy to measure the AT and RCP this way. Maybe I don’t understand his approach correctly, I would love to discuss this with him.
Hi Hans, have you posed your question to Iñigo on Twitter? He's very active on there and maybe he can give you a little insight. twitter.com/doctorinigo
@@trainingpeaks No, because I’m not on Twitter and never have been. Can you tell me if I can reach him by mail? But I also heard that he receives so much mail that he has no possibility to respond to it. So that makes it a bit hard to get into contact.
Dirk says… we gave been friends for 27 years, coming up on 30 years,,, I say my TP fitness is 32 coming up to 50 😂. TP has been an important part of my training for well over a decade, I am now recovering from heart valve repair and use TP to build my workouts, inform my workouts and manage my efforts.
So if someone new to endurance training were to get tested etc...would Inigo's advice for "really seeing improvements" via training 4+ a week for 1-1.5hrs in zone 2 - still stand? Or is that something that should be built up to even with strict adherence to their personalized zone 2?
It depends on a few things. 1) How much baseline fitness does this new athlete have coming into starting a training plan/block? 2) What are their goals and what is the timeline for those goals? 3) Maybe most importantly, does the athlete need to get into lactate testing at this point? If they are really just getting started, using rate of perceived exertion (RPE) would probably be the best starting point to build a solid base before doing anything with advanced testing like lactate thresholds since their physiology will change as they train. And there might be more significant changes in the beginning as the body adapts, devaluing that initial testing. You can learn more on the TrainingPeaks Blog too. Here's one to get started with: www.trainingpeaks.com/blog/base-training-for-beginners/
Amazing explanation by the coach, but I have a question: when I go out of the saddle for a little bit, heart rate rises pretty fast, and then goes down when I'm back on the saddle; so when I'm on a zone 2 steady ride is it better to avoid getting out of the saddle to keep the power output consistent, or that little heart rate rise is not a big deal?
There are a several factors that could be triggering the rise in your HR so these are by no means all of the answers. First and foremost is to determine if there is a medical concern, visit your physician to get any concerning rapid increases. If there's a clean bill of health from the doctor, you can then examine the on-bike physiological aspects. First, you'll be using more of your body asking more of your cardiovascular system in general , but then if you're in the same gear on the bike, you'll probably increase your cadence and could lead to that "spike." Or if you're pushing a harder gear and you have to work harder causing the "spike." Either way, as long as you're maintaining the zone, it shouldn't be that much of a concern. If you haven't already, maybe go for a proper test and get those zones dialed in and then you can start to examine those changes with more context.
@@trainingpeaks OK, thanks. I think the reason is a higher power output due to the harder gear I use when I get out of the saddle: the watts increases a little bit and the heart rate as well.
pitty that the emphasis being on lactate levels no examples where shown on charts and where to look for to divide in the 6 levels . nice interview though
Why not add a chart from the actual results from five individuals starting with average fit rider to pro riders, starting from warm-up to zone five including heart rate, watts and lactate, mm!😢😮😅
@@ProvidenceProducts I think ISM is protective of his real protocols and he does a good job talking around them without giving specific information. He conducts his interviews as a more professor instead of a coach and never really gives specifics on his methodology
I am curious how Dr. San Millán is accounting for survivor bias when looking at advanced athletes to solve for medical conditions like type 2 diabetes?
When I ride at a power that brings me mid z2 HR at 70rpm and I increase cadence to 90rpm my HR goes to upper Zone 2. I guess the reason is decreased biomechanical efficiency but also higher stimulation of nervous system due to higher movement velocity. Over time it will drift out of zone. I now have 3 options. A) dont care, B) reduce power C) reduce cadence. If I want to still optimize metabolic function, which of the 3 should I choose ?
Some of it depends on other variables too. What phase of training are you in (base, build, climbing, sprinting etc.) or what your goals are for training (race result, event finish, etc.). All things being equal, Dr. San Milan focuses on HR over power.
Tadej...during training can do zone 2 for 5hrs at 320-340 watts....crazy good numbers....but if so, why he can attack repeatedly, launch crazy long attacks...
There are lots of variables that come into play beyond just Z2 watts. Just a few: race conditions or tactics, race course, fueling, workload before the attacks, and many more. It's hard to pin his success down to one or two factors. He also has a very powerful and smart team riding in support.
@@trainingpeaks yes of course but zone 2 is the aerobic/ fat burning zone...out if the you get into your glucose....now when you do your Intervels and the body produces lactate...lactate to be cleared is converted to pyruvate and then Into the mitochondria.....and it's your zone 2 capacity that helps clear the lactate....so for Tadej who's zone 2 capacity in the 300's watt range....has tremendous ability to attack repeatedly and recover....other energy systems need to be trained....but zone 2 appears to be foundational.
What blows my mind is the fitness of the cyclists. These cyclists hold 400 watts for over an hour!! INSANE! I can hold 400 watts for 4 strokes. Elite athlete is truly and understatement
Physiology and power output are generally vary athlete to athlete. So it's hard to say if there's a "normal" ratio. It's possible to improve power output overall or in specific zones based on using particular zone training.
Somewhat annoyed by how the interviewer brushes away from the details of Dr. San Millan's blood work protocol at 15:51 only focusing on what he already understands which is the topic of decoupling. This is a consistent failure of interviewers in all of Dr. San Millan's interviews. Critically, it is this part of Dr. San Millan's work that really separates how the pros train, and we are kept in the dark.
Zone 2 training works IF you have the time. If you only have 5 hours a week to train, your time would be better spent in higher zones but your events will need to be shorter.
Doing 5hrs of high intensity per week would lead to a lot of fatigue. It has to be a mix of high and low intensity, unless you're a sprinter, and even then, a sprinter needs endurance.
@@rallyboy101 That is why Trainer Road based their entire system on Sweetspot, best bang for the buck for those with little time to train, but also has it's limitations.
@@rallyboy101 Oh I'm no fan of TR plans, I'm no Sweetspot fan either though I do train at that level for a short period in my programme. What I mean though is if your fitness level is low then SS is probably the most efficient way to get your FTP up quickly (which is why TR plans are popular) until the oint fitness plateau's. Not saying its the best way.
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I see Inigo, I click. Every time I hear him speak I learn something new.
Same here. He’s my new guru.
@clrbrk9108, sign me up! Iñigo is the man!
He just says the same thing for an hour
This is just pure gold. Thanks so much for this interview and training peaks Dirk and special thanks Dr. San Milan for educating us.
Always fascinating to listen to Dr San Milan, and such a humble and modest guy.
This is really good. I have watched the podcasts of Inigo with Peter Attia, Simon Hill, and GCN. This interview and presentation, for me as a Master's athlete, has been the most helpful. Again, well done and thank you!
Thanks for listening
I've heard Inigo explain Z2 on Fasttalk, Attia, GCN, and more, and always pick up a nugget. Last year I went from 175 W to 205W Z2 SS and felt strong. Unfortunately, I neglected my top end and didn't see near the improvements. ... But this year, ,💪👍. Thanks Dirk, great interview!
Big fan of Inigo. However, I wish he'd produce a chart showing his Zones. He spoke of switching gears from Zone 1 to Zone 2 at the point just past FatMax, which suggests VT-1/LT-1, which makes sense. But, then he goes on to say how important it is to train in Zone 2. This seems inconsistent. Is the threshold between Zone1 and Zone 2 or between Zone 2 and 3. A graphical representation of his zones would be very useful, IMHO. Regardless, it's always informative to listen to this amazing man.
My interpretation is that he was talking about switching gears from Zone 1 to Zone 2 in 3 zone model where VT1 and VT2 are the separators between zones and when he said it's important to train in zone 2, that's in the 6 zone model he's using.
He has. Look up Inigo Metabolic Map
you guys shoud segment the videos :) i listened this in spotify, but as always need to replay few times when inigo is speaking, so much information packed into such short time..
Heikki, we've added chapters to the video now. So hopefully it'll be easier to dive back into a part you need more info from. ✌🏻
Great interview. Fascinating to hear the science behind training and our bodies and the potential for future tech.
40:45 one thing he doesn't clarify is the likelihood of burnout from too much focus on the Glycolytic pathway. Training at high intensity activates the fight or flight response and the sympathetic nervous system which if done on every ride will lead to plateau burnout and likely sickness. Hence the 80:20 distribution.
Seilers words
Thanks, incredible learnings from iñigo! 🙌🙌
Awesome!! Thank you for sharing!! Z2 for the win!!
Bravo, thank you!
Great interview and also great questions! Thank you
Absolutely amazing! Thanks! 🙂
Gold interview, thank you!
Would like to ask,
What influance does cadance training have on different metabolic zones and how it affects our biochemistry metabolism - mitochondrial functions and so on?
For example is doing a zone 2 trainging with 70-80 rpm will stimulate our musce fibres and mitochondia same as the same zone 2 trainging executed with 90-100rpm?
Thanks!
yep, i wonder the same. i hope we'll get an answer on that in the near future ;-)
for a given power, with gears, it happens this: low rpm goes along with high force & high rpm goes along with low force. it's like a paradox, since low speed goes with high strength & high speed goes with low strength... so, what is mitochondria doing, which situation likes best for getting better fuel to eat and develop? :-)
@@mirceaandreighinea ya, i got you, althought when going with lower rpm = lower bpm than going with same power and higher candence.
Does this mean less lactate is produced?
It's a very interesting topic, especialy since majority of best pros started doing strenght cadence traing.
@@Nick_007ia very interesting topic, indeed, since there is no consensus regarding the cadence (for a given power/speed). we see max-top riders being so different, all kind of riders (big, small, GC, time trial, flat, climb, etc, etc), and their rpm could be low as 72 or high as 98. it's not something small... the difference translates into quite higher force/speed... yep, very interesting subject... an old one that still needs to be discovered. again, not talking about bla bla bla, but what we can really see and measure - like 72 versus 98, well, that's really something.
I think it makes little to no difference based upon Z2 as he is using HR to guide the low intensity zone training sessions.
So he is looking at the input metric (HR) to guide the training stimulus rather than the output (watts) - so if ride at 80 or 100 your keeping the HR in a stable zone to build the mitochondria.
Fascinating… I’d be very keen to hear his thoughts on fasted training for Z2 sessions
It is essential for endurance in my mind and experience.
@@richardmiddleton7770 he’s spoken about it on the videos he’s done with GCN, and doesn’t believe in them, citing high CHO intake as the way to go.
Check his interview at hat Triathlon Show, episode 262. He does not believe in it, says it is a trend, it is highly stressful, and that there are no studies showing it improves mitochondria performance.
@@marcelomenezes8488 it improves the mitochondria performance at burning fatty acids and there are studies showing fasting improves mitochondrial function and efficiency and mitophagy.
Great stuff!!
First, thanks for this very interesting interview. It’s always great to listen to Iñigo.
But there’s one thing that I don’t understand in his approach and that’s the testing and his focus on lactate. As he says himself it’s very indirect and you have to wait quite long for a steady state. So why not test with a CPET and focus on CO2 and O2? The Wassermann 9 plots give you a lot of information and it’s very direct as CO2 is discarded as fast as possible. Also with a breath by breath measurement you get very accurate graphs, because you have so much more data than with lactate.
This is what I do as a sport physician. It’s very easy to measure the AT and RCP this way.
Maybe I don’t understand his approach correctly, I would love to discuss this with him.
Hi Hans, have you posed your question to Iñigo on Twitter? He's very active on there and maybe he can give you a little insight. twitter.com/doctorinigo
@@trainingpeaks No, because I’m not on Twitter and never have been. Can you tell me if I can reach him by mail? But I also heard that he receives so much mail that he has no possibility to respond to it. So that makes it a bit hard to get into contact.
Hitzaldi oso ona, zorionak Iñigo!!
Great and smart people ... very interesting
Dirk says… we gave been friends for 27 years, coming up on 30 years,,, I say my TP fitness is 32 coming up to 50 😂. TP has been an important part of my training for well over a decade, I am now recovering from heart valve repair and use TP to build my workouts, inform my workouts and manage my efforts.
Good to hear you're on the way back!! Keep it rolling.
So if someone new to endurance training were to get tested etc...would Inigo's advice for "really seeing improvements" via training 4+ a week for 1-1.5hrs in zone 2 - still stand? Or is that something that should be built up to even with strict adherence to their personalized zone 2?
It depends on a few things. 1) How much baseline fitness does this new athlete have coming into starting a training plan/block? 2) What are their goals and what is the timeline for those goals? 3) Maybe most importantly, does the athlete need to get into lactate testing at this point?
If they are really just getting started, using rate of perceived exertion (RPE) would probably be the best starting point to build a solid base before doing anything with advanced testing like lactate thresholds since their physiology will change as they train. And there might be more significant changes in the beginning as the body adapts, devaluing that initial testing. You can learn more on the TrainingPeaks Blog too. Here's one to get started with: www.trainingpeaks.com/blog/base-training-for-beginners/
Amazing explanation by the coach, but I have a question: when I go out of the saddle for a little bit, heart rate rises pretty fast, and then goes down when I'm back on the saddle; so when I'm on a zone 2 steady ride is it better to avoid getting out of the saddle to keep the power output consistent, or that little heart rate rise is not a big deal?
There are a several factors that could be triggering the rise in your HR so these are by no means all of the answers. First and foremost is to determine if there is a medical concern, visit your physician to get any concerning rapid increases. If there's a clean bill of health from the doctor, you can then examine the on-bike physiological aspects. First, you'll be using more of your body asking more of your cardiovascular system in general , but then if you're in the same gear on the bike, you'll probably increase your cadence and could lead to that "spike." Or if you're pushing a harder gear and you have to work harder causing the "spike." Either way, as long as you're maintaining the zone, it shouldn't be that much of a concern. If you haven't already, maybe go for a proper test and get those zones dialed in and then you can start to examine those changes with more context.
@@trainingpeaks OK, thanks. I think the reason is a higher power output due to the harder gear I use when I get out of the saddle: the watts increases a little bit and the heart rate as well.
pitty that the emphasis being on lactate levels no examples where shown on charts and where to look for to divide in the 6 levels . nice interview though
Hi. Try watching some TH-cam s by Stephen Seiler. He has some very good discussions on zone breakdown relative to Lactate Turn points.
th-cam.com/video/NPwyk9B0j-s/w-d-xo.html
Inigo is a Polarised believer and only goes off 3 zones.
Why not add a chart from the actual results from five individuals starting with average fit rider to pro riders, starting from warm-up to zone five including heart rate, watts and lactate, mm!😢😮😅
@@ProvidenceProducts I think ISM is protective of his real protocols and he does a good job talking around them without giving specific information. He conducts his interviews as a more professor instead of a coach and never really gives specifics on his methodology
I am curious how Dr. San Millán is accounting for survivor bias when looking at advanced athletes to solve for medical conditions like type 2 diabetes?
Great video!
When I ride at a power that brings me mid z2 HR at 70rpm and I increase cadence to 90rpm my HR goes to upper Zone 2. I guess the reason is decreased biomechanical efficiency but also higher stimulation of nervous system due to higher movement velocity. Over time it will drift out of zone. I now have 3 options. A) dont care, B) reduce power C) reduce cadence. If I want to still optimize metabolic function, which of the 3 should I choose ?
Some of it depends on other variables too. What phase of training are you in (base, build, climbing, sprinting etc.) or what your goals are for training (race result, event finish, etc.). All things being equal, Dr. San Milan focuses on HR over power.
Tadej...during training can do zone 2 for 5hrs at 320-340 watts....crazy good numbers....but if so, why he can attack repeatedly, launch crazy long attacks...
There are lots of variables that come into play beyond just Z2 watts. Just a few: race conditions or tactics, race course, fueling, workload before the attacks, and many more. It's hard to pin his success down to one or two factors. He also has a very powerful and smart team riding in support.
@@trainingpeaks yes of course but zone 2 is the aerobic/ fat burning zone...out if the you get into your glucose....now when you do your Intervels and the body produces lactate...lactate to be cleared is converted to pyruvate and then Into the mitochondria.....and it's your zone 2 capacity that helps clear the lactate....so for Tadej who's zone 2 capacity in the 300's watt range....has tremendous ability to attack repeatedly and recover....other energy systems need to be trained....but zone 2 appears to be foundational.
So if you’re exercising not to win races, do have to do high intensity for longevity or just do zone 2?
A good place to start would be here: www.trainingpeaks.com/blog/does-polarized-training-really-work/
Which lactate devices are athletes using?
Lactate pro 2 is very good
@@luke3055thanks. I already bought that one
🙏 T H A N K. Y O U 🙏
It’s incredible to think that tadej can fly over the mountain during the tour with 80 % zone 2 training only!🤔🤐🤫🤣
May not be, His recovery and lactate clearance will be too good.
He can go too deep for more time and recover faster than others at higher intensity.
Pros consider a slope as climb when the gradient is above 15%. Also as you told at zone 2 they may be producing 3- 4.5 wt/kg which is too good.
Try doing his 20%...
What blows my mind is the fitness of the cyclists. These cyclists hold 400 watts for over an hour!! INSANE! I can hold 400 watts for 4 strokes. Elite athlete is truly and understatement
@@jimking6484 yes ,i can hold 460 w for only 30 seconds and I am pooped 🥵🤬😭
My zone 2 limit is at 100 watts and my ftp is 135 watts. Is this a normal ratio?
Physiology and power output are generally vary athlete to athlete. So it's hard to say if there's a "normal" ratio. It's possible to improve power output overall or in specific zones based on using particular zone training.
“250W in zone 2, maybe”😅😅😅
250W is my VO2 max and peak 3 minutes power. 🤣🤣🤣
I offer these metabolic services if you are in the Boston area! 💪🚴🏃♀
Somewhat annoyed by how the interviewer brushes away from the details of Dr. San Millan's blood work protocol at 15:51 only focusing on what he already understands which is the topic of decoupling. This is a consistent failure of interviewers in all of Dr. San Millan's interviews. Critically, it is this part of Dr. San Millan's work that really separates how the pros train, and we are kept in the dark.
Zone 2 training works IF you have the time. If you only have 5 hours a week to train, your time would be better spent in higher zones but your events will need to be shorter.
Doing 5hrs of high intensity per week would lead to a lot of fatigue. It has to be a mix of high and low intensity, unless you're a sprinter, and even then, a sprinter needs endurance.
@@rallyboy101 That is why Trainer Road based their entire system on Sweetspot, best bang for the buck for those with little time to train, but also has it's limitations.
@@SteveT__001 it’s best bang for your buck only according to TR. many coaches slate their plans.
@@rallyboy101 Oh I'm no fan of TR plans, I'm no Sweetspot fan either though I do train at that level for a short period in my programme. What I mean though is if your fitness level is low then SS is probably the most efficient way to get your FTP up quickly (which is why TR plans are popular) until the oint fitness plateau's. Not saying its the best way.
No.