Falkner having an extra Pokemon, only for it to end up being a severely underleveled Pidgeot is honestly a lot funnier and on-brand than I would have expected from him
I just found it so crazy that in the TV show he had a picture shot despite being the first gym went in the regular games. He just had regular under level Pokémon, but that’s because Ash still had some Pokémon from his previous team.
Even though it's a shame it makes him a pushover right before the Elite 4, I actually kinda like how the rival's team between Victory Road and Mt. Moon is really showing his character growth. His Golbat evolving into Crobat shows he learned to treat his Pokémon a lot better since it's an happiness evolution, and him managing to evolve his Haunter and Kadabra shows he actually managed to socialize without acting like a complete jerk, so he found someone to trade with.
Level 10 Pideot? Wow, they really were doing everything to avoid giving Faulkner a Hoothoot or Noctowl weren’t they? That’s the only explanation I can think of for why that was even considered.
Judging from Falkner's in-game dialogue, I assume the Pokemon he used in the Gym battle weren't even his but his dad's or if they are Falner's then a gift from his dad. Being defeated "...Darn! My Dad's cherished bird Pokémon... All right...."
I wonder if silver having rhyhorn/rhydon was made for silver to be more connected with giovanni since rhydon is giovanni ace pokemon and giovanni is silver's dad or maybe it was just a coincidence
in the manga, Silver evolves Green's Rhyhorn to a Rhyperior and uses it for a while. He also uses Giovanni's book about ground type pokémon to teach Rock Wrecker to Rhyperior, which ended up saving Giovanni's life from Giratina
Keep in mind this was long before it was confirmed Silver was Giovanni's son, so him having a Rhydon would've made for some nice foreshadowing. Such a shame they removed Rhydon from his team, as I felt it's a Pokemon that really fit him
I’m honestly shocked no one has talked about the beta teams up until now. Sure, it’s a bunch of minor stuff, but beta Falkner is low hanging fruit yet I’ve never heard so much as a jab at him
You should see the beta teams of red and blue, the rival would have Nidoking/Nidoqueen/Alakazam based on the starter , Giovanni was a flying type gym leader and Agatha was straight up an Eeveelution specialist instead of a ghost specialist
People have talked about it. Look at Giovanni's badge too. It's been a feather all this time. Hinting at his beta flying team from Red/Green. They even found out that whole team too. Erika too from her a bit different outfit. Giovanni & Misty being in the elite four in the G/S Spacworld 97 demo and such.
The most likely reason for Forretress being added to Koga's team is that it's meant to go along with his ninja theme. Similarly, the rival's original Rhyhorn was likely intended to link him to Giovanni. Bit of a shame that one was cut.
I always considered Falkner's Pidgeotto to be a reference to the Viridian Forest one in Yellow. The beta Pidgeot is hilarious though. Funny foreshadowing for Falkner's father.
I would have loved a level 9 Hoothoot as his ace, but at least we saw a Pidgeot in the anime. Seeing one in the first Gym battle would have been nerve racking. Forget Whitney, Faulkner would have made kids go nuts if it was, say, 12-14. Ten is just too low. Then again 12-14 might be too high. But if you have a team of six and one is a Geodude that you can get at the beginning of the game, you'd probably be ok.
I actually kinda like Miltank being Whitney's only Pokemon could have worked since she was strong and only needed one pokemon to do it. The Clefairy is basically a none factor anyways. The Rhyhorn on the Rival's team could have been a nice touch since if he was to be Giovanni's son in the original games then it could link the two with Silver using Giovanni's ace
Going from a Poliwrath to an Onix. Bruno was robbed! His beta team would've had all fighting types. Like a Black Belt trainer SHOULD! Why'd they even give him that?! Its like with Brock in the anime where he claimed to have been a Rock type gym leader but by Jhoto (and ESPECIALLY Hoenn), he was MOSTLY catching everything BUT rock types!
Looking at Bulbapedia, Brock started with a Geodude and Onix. His only Rock-types by the end of the series are Geodude (It didn't evolve after all that time!?) and Sudowoodo.
@@ksoundkaiju9256 and he picked the worst rock type possible. At least use Golem or Rhydon if you aren’t gonna stick to your type specialty. Even Sudowoodo would’ve been a better pick than Onix.
Faulkner's beta team is kind of interesting from a story point. There's that whole thing about Team Rocket forcing Magikarp to evolve early. Game Freak must of been thinking about what levels even mean from a non-game play perspective.
Yep. People take for granted what gen 2 did to set the Pokemon formula in stone, but it really does look like they were originally angling for a natural vs. artificial training theme with this game before dropping it in the name of consistency. The rival's general attitude, the forced evolution radio, the friendship evolutions... It honestly feels like that was the Imposter Oak angle, possibly: come to us, we'll evolve your pokemon for you. Trust me, I'm Oak.
If I had to give an explanation for Falkner's low-level Pidgeotto - as well as Pidgeot if it was included - is that it's deliberately holding back during the fight, since this is the first gym you're challenging. Like, if you challenged Falkner as your eighth gym, those birds would be going all-out instead.
The alternate idea I had was that maybe his Pidgeot - and Pidgeotto for that matter - is deliberately holding back, since this is the first gym you're challenging. Like, if this was the 8th, those birds would be going all-out.
Silver having a Haunter and Kadabra in Victory Road is a great touch for story reasons. He's a total jackass. He has no friends to trade with to evolve those pokémon. When you run into him again later, he's started to reform, so it makes sense for those pokémon to be evolved at that point. Golbat seems like a mistake though.
The rival having a Ryhorn is probably a subtle nod to his dad being Giovonni & a ground type gym leader. itd be very easy to imagine him having access/getting given a Ryhorn offscreen
@@JZJ7777 It suits his ninja theme of setting up hazards and traps. They had more than enough poison types to give him, but they chose Forretress. I’m not the biggest fan of giving a type specialist exclusively that type so it’s just my opinion.
Falkner having a level 10 Pidgeot is pretty hillarious and it absolutely suits him 😂 Honestly make the Pidgeot level 13 like his ace in HGSS and make it his ONLY Pokemon and it would be an awesome Gym fight, not balanced in the slightest but unique and memorable
The funny thing about Jhoto is that a lot of Evolutions are under their actual level. Lance gets the most attention but it's everywhere. They could have explained it away by making it that the Rocket experiment at Lake of Rage was causing Pokemon all around the region to evolve abnormally or something, but they just left us with what we got. Another explanation could be that the characters are supposed to be experienced, but bell curved to your level at the time XD
The interesting thing is that Falkner does have a Pidgeot in the anime, but it's definitely a coincidence, they probably just didn't want Ash fighting a Pidgey after facing the League edit: there's also a trainer with a level 25 Pidgeot in the final game apparently
Its long since been fanon made canon in Generations that Leaders use teams based on badge count, if that helps anything. It doesn't help Ash, but he can't be helped
@@Bird-wz7nx The problem with this is that the rest of Johto's gym leaders didn't really change that much in the anime, Falkner is just a weird exception
Yeah, it would’ve made sense having the team in the game as in the anime because Pikachu would’ve destroyed them. So I still having Charizard it makes sense to face a Pidgeot. Johto is the only game where Ash brings Pokémon from a previous generation and besides starting his journey and beginning in Hoenn when he starts all over he still has Charizard and other Pokémon so it be made challenging. Before the second gym leader, he pretty much got rid of all of his previous Pokémon, except Bulbasaur.
10:30 correction: There are enough Dark-types in Gen 2 for a full team: the 2 hounds, Murkrow, Sneasel, Umbreon and T-Tar. They could have just given Houndour as a starting mon to Karen (Bruno uses Onix after all which is arguably worse with 2 4x weaknesses to starter types), could also give her T-Tar since Lance comes after and has 3 pesudos not just 1. Could also always use dupes like Lance and Will if balance is an issue
Good Vid! Those were some interesting teams... Honestly im Glad Pidgeot wasnt on falkner's final team cuz at first i would laugh seeing a lvl 10 pidgeot lol! Then would be pissed since it would be hard to beat. Ariana's Radio Tower team was the most hilarious... Two Tangela lol! Imagine being in an intense situation where u gotta stop a person from ruining your plans and you use two tangelas! I'd laugh so hard. Anyways , you gained a sub ❤
I think Falkner's Pidgeot is supposed to show that it was his father's Pokémon, a full strength Pidgeot, but that Falkner has not enough practice with it so it underperforms severely, which is represented by the abnormally low level.
At least Fortress likes to go boom. So that kind of fits with Koga being a ninja rather then being a Posion specialist. Ninjas did use bombs. I personally like it when they give trainers Pokèmon that match what the character does like being a ninja into consideration when making their teams. You can give Koga any stealthy Pokèmon and it’ll make sense he’d have it on his team
10:12 False, she could've had a team of 5 Dark types. You're forgetting that Tyranitar is also Rock/Dark, so they could've simply replaced Vileplume and Gengar with Sneasel and Tyranitar. Granted, that might've been a bit strong for this battle and they wanted to give Tyranitar to Blue, but a 5 Pokemon Dark team would've been possible if they really wanted it.
I agree Karen deserved a Tyranitar as her Ace Umbreon as a lead if perfect alongside Tyranitar that's tough to beat It makes sense if Lance can have Illegal Dragonites why can't Keren have Tyranitar Blue didn't get Tyranitar until Gen 3 even
Whitney with just Miltank, if it had the same moveset, would definitely have been harder. Many cheese strategies rely on setting up or using rage while her Clefairy is useless and then just bulldoze the Miltank, which wouldn't be possible anymore if it was *just* the Miltank. Ironically, her Lv. 22 Miltank on hardcore rulesets would be likely easier than her lv. 20/19 Miltank since the higher level means more pokémon evolve (being unevolved against that thing being one of the reasons why it's so tough) and a few more moves might be learned.
I was hoping seeing the beta team for falkner would indirectly give insights about his baffling team, but it actually gives more questions than answers.
I've always noticed an unspoken rule that E4 members use a pokemon out of their typing to assert skill, Loreleis Slowbro, Brunos 2 Onix, Agathas Arbok and Golbat, and Lance's Non Dragons, you can see it in Gen 2's E4 in all the nods to gen 1, Even Will uses Slowbro and Jynx.
I don't mind Elite 4 members having a secondary type in addition to their main type. If anything I think it makes them a more interesting fight and separates them from gym leaders. In Gen 2 these secondary types makes sense thematically too: Bug pairs well with Poison, Poison pairs well with Dark, and and Flying pairs well with Dragon.
Morty using the Gengar line was laughable enough...but Falkner using the entire Pidgeot line with a *MASSIVELY* underleveled Pidgeot...?! Man...perhaps we were a tad bit too harsh to the final Gym Leader teams. Red and Blue's Beta team levels would've been more fair, fitting in better with GSC's infamous level curve than their Final team levels.
Koga's beta E4 team makes sooooo much more sense. Nothing against Forretress, but it always looked out of place on that team, especially as Weezing's replacement (Weezing of course being Koga's ace in Red and Blue) Silver having a Rhydon was also a huge missed opportunity the more I think about it, considering what we know about him being Giovanni's son now The funny thing about Blue's team is that even with the level drops, he would still be the strongest Kanto gym leader with his beta team Red wouldn't be as iconic and would have so much less aura if his team was in the 60s instead of in the high 70s
5:51 Sneasel's design is actually the same as in Spaceworld 97, with an updated sprite. This demo was also a few months before the final game if I'm not mistaken, meaning that the Sneasel we all know was pretty much rushed into the game. They didn't even have time to change it's pallete from the old design in Gold and Silver, as only in Crystal did they change its color palette to the one used to this day. 6:43 And yet Cyrus, the guy who absolutely hates emotions, does get a Crobat, and he didn't have to wait until the postgame to do so. 8:44 and 9:56 I'm guessing they were originally going to bring back the entire Kanto Elite 4 before dropping Agatha and Lorelei for two new characters instead. Lorelei certainly wouldn't have left her post to protect Four Island in FRLG if they went with this original plan. It'd explain why neither female Elite Four member had an explanation of where they went at the time, or why Agatha still seems to be missing without a trace after her battle against Red.
I'm surprised Karen didn't have a Tyranitar yeah it would have been illegal yet Champion Lance can have 3 Illegal Dragonites A Tyranitar would have been a Perfect Ace for Keren it's a Dark Type and a Pseudo Legendary aw well
Thank you for sharing, I do enjoy doing comparisons and thinking of the difference in not just Pokémon but basically anything that I can think of! This was nice to watch
Great vid, you have a new subscriber ^^ Quick note though you mentioned Whitney would be the only gym leader to use a single Pokémon, however Lt. Surge already claimed that honour in Pokémon yellow. You str right though that to this day he's the only one and Whitney would have been the last Also rivals golbat at l 20 would technically be legal,as you can catch level 15 golbat in the wild, in my mortar
Bugsy did in fact have a couple different team members. Even had a completely different design. Bugsys design had him wearing a white tuxedo jacket and pants. His team consisted of a metapod, ledian (it was changed drastically and looked like it could actually hold its own) and his ace was pinser. The bug type gym would have been in wat was beta goldenrod with the bug catching contest being in said city.
Yeah this seemed off compared to the beta I’ve seen, where a vast majority of the johto dex was completely different and the map layout was drastically different as well
Rhydon was a better fit for Silver because all of his Pokemon would’ve looked intimidating(with Feraligatr as his canon starter). I always saw Magneton as a “nerd’s” Pokemon, something a bully like Silver would never use.
2:42 Uhhh Yellow version Lt. Surge??? Immediately thought of him because that was where I got stuck as a kid and wouldn't beat him for 20 years (gave up on Gen 1 when I got Crystal Version). If there are any others I am not thinking of him but he was a particularly annoying boss and I will never forget how much he missed me off, all he had was his Raichu on his team
Silver probably got Magneton so he has both a Steeltype, and a Dark Type in his Team. Weezing over Gengar for Koga, Weezing was his original ace after all.
Everyone always complains about witney and her miltank, but even as a kid I never remember having an issue with her lol. I picked cyndaquil in silver and chik in gold. No idea why I never had and issue with her
I want to comment that falkner couldve caught his pidgeotto in viridian forest as the level matches up. Seeing as we know that the yellow version is technically canon due to red having pikachu.
Hoothoot is found during the night, Pidgey is found during the night- ergo, no Hoothoot on his team because Falkner has a strict curfew, and he needed an extra 2nd Pidgey he doesn’t use in battle to Fly to Viridian Forest to get the rare Level 9 Pidgeotto (Possible in Yellow). The first Pidgey is for the gym battle. Brainstormed fan theory. On a scale from 0-31, how would you rate it? 0 being Tauros-crap nonsense, and 31 meaning it’s a legit lore-nuke.
I prefer beta sneasel it looks pretty mean. GS design looked better with it actually having ice in the design like some kind of ice kunai lodged in its head
Yeah, it's the only Pseudo not on someone's team in the league Iirc aside from Kommo-O (who got his uber buffed 2 on 1 totem pokémon battle instead) Lance has Dragonite Drake has Salamence, Steven has Metagross Cynthia has Garchomp Ghetsis has Hydreigon, iirc Iris in B2W2 as champ aswell Diantha has Goodra Leon has Dragapult Hassel has Frigibax Karen not having the Tyranitar is a super weird exception in the series.
Because you get Tyranitar at level 55, Karen's strongest Pokemon, Houndoom is at level 47. They made the Dragonites underleveled for Lance because he is the Champion of the region I'd assume. Better question is why doesn't Brock have a Tyranitar, in his case the levels could easily surprass Lance as he is post-game and they do in HGSS
@@getkosiorekt8345Usually I'd say sure, would be an underlevelled Tyranitar... but... gen 2 specifically is infamous for being chock-full of blatantly underlevelled pokémon. Falkner's Pidgeotto, Morty's Haunters, Chuck's Primeape, Pryce's Dewgong and Piloswine, Petrel's Weezing... Having Karen's ace simply be an underlevelled Tyranitar would've been no problem considering Houndoom is already Archer's ace in the same game anyways.
Can you do a video about the beata teams of Red and Blue ? I always thought they were suoer interesting like Giovanni being a flying type specialist and Agatha specializing in Eeveelutions instead of ghost types
Falkner having a Pidgeot would be reference to the anime which I always thought was weird but now makes sense because I always thought it was weird that he had a Pidgeot in the anime because Ash still had his Charizard at all the other gym leaders had regular leveled Pokémon. But I guess they didn’t want to make Faulkner week when Ash still had his Kanto Pokémon.
Surge also only had 1 Pokemon in Yellow, Raichu.
Exactly
Came here to mention the same thing
It was a pretty mandatory anime reference though
Yeah, it wouldn’t be Pokémon yellow if he didn’t have one Raichu
Raichu doesn't count, obviously
Falkner having an extra Pokemon, only for it to end up being a severely underleveled Pidgeot is honestly a lot funnier and on-brand than I would have expected from him
Yeah he said guess and that's exactly what I guessed. Actually not a huge surprise if you remember he had one in the cartoon too.
@@ottav69That’s because Ash still had Charizard and is why he gets dumped soon after
This explain why Falkner in the anime episode has a Pidgeot.
I just found it so crazy that in the TV show he had a picture shot despite being the first gym went in the regular games. He just had regular under level Pokémon, but that’s because Ash still had some Pokémon from his previous team.
@@Cloudwizrd Does it matter?
Even though it's a shame it makes him a pushover right before the Elite 4, I actually kinda like how the rival's team between Victory Road and Mt. Moon is really showing his character growth.
His Golbat evolving into Crobat shows he learned to treat his Pokémon a lot better since it's an happiness evolution, and him managing to evolve his Haunter and Kadabra shows he actually managed to socialize without acting like a complete jerk, so he found someone to trade with.
Level 10 Pideot? Wow, they really were doing everything to avoid giving Faulkner a Hoothoot or Noctowl weren’t they? That’s the only explanation I can think of for why that was even considered.
At least Noctowl i think could have been found low level in headbutt trees
Honestly, I think Pidgeot is very fitting for Falkner from an aesthetic standpoint.
I wonder then if Fallners team was worked out before they knew about the HootHoot line.
@@WherearewegoinginNSW I’m pretty sure Hoothoot was in the beta.
Judging from Falkner's in-game dialogue, I assume the Pokemon he used in the Gym battle weren't even his but his dad's or if they are Falner's then a gift from his dad.
Being defeated
"...Darn! My Dad's cherished bird Pokémon... All right...."
I wonder if silver having rhyhorn/rhydon was made for silver to be more connected with giovanni since rhydon is giovanni ace pokemon and giovanni is silver's dad or maybe it was just a coincidence
in the manga, Silver evolves Green's Rhyhorn to a Rhyperior and uses it for a while. He also uses Giovanni's book about ground type pokémon to teach Rock Wrecker to Rhyperior, which ended up saving Giovanni's life from Giratina
Exactly this
Keep in mind this was long before it was confirmed Silver was Giovanni's son, so him having a Rhydon would've made for some nice foreshadowing. Such a shame they removed Rhydon from his team, as I felt it's a Pokemon that really fit him
I imagine that was intentional
@@essentiel2bye it was hinted that silvers dad was Giovanni until FR/LG post game
I’m honestly shocked no one has talked about the beta teams up until now. Sure, it’s a bunch of minor stuff, but beta Falkner is low hanging fruit yet I’ve never heard so much as a jab at him
You should see the beta teams of red and blue, the rival would have Nidoking/Nidoqueen/Alakazam based on the starter , Giovanni was a flying type gym leader and Agatha was straight up an Eeveelution specialist instead of a ghost specialist
@@conansglasses2645I feel like Giovanni being flying would have fit better with the Team Rocket motto
People have talked about it. Look at Giovanni's badge too. It's been a feather all this time. Hinting at his beta flying team from Red/Green. They even found out that whole team too. Erika too from her a bit different outfit. Giovanni & Misty being in the elite four in the G/S Spacworld 97 demo and such.
The most likely reason for Forretress being added to Koga's team is that it's meant to go along with his ninja theme. Similarly, the rival's original Rhyhorn was likely intended to link him to Giovanni. Bit of a shame that one was cut.
I always considered Falkner's Pidgeotto to be a reference to the Viridian Forest one in Yellow. The beta Pidgeot is hilarious though. Funny foreshadowing for Falkner's father.
I would have loved a level 9 Hoothoot as his ace, but at least we saw a Pidgeot in the anime. Seeing one in the first Gym battle would have been nerve racking. Forget Whitney, Faulkner would have made kids go nuts if it was, say, 12-14. Ten is just too low. Then again 12-14 might be too high. But if you have a team of six and one is a Geodude that you can get at the beginning of the game, you'd probably be ok.
I actually kinda like Miltank being Whitney's only Pokemon could have worked since she was strong and only needed one pokemon to do it. The Clefairy is basically a none factor anyways.
The Rhyhorn on the Rival's team could have been a nice touch since if he was to be Giovanni's son in the original games then it could link the two with Silver using Giovanni's ace
You say that but it ALSO knows attract and an unlucky, for the player, metronome could send the battle spiralling towards disaster.
Going from a Poliwrath to an Onix. Bruno was robbed! His beta team would've had all fighting types. Like a Black Belt trainer SHOULD! Why'd they even give him that?!
Its like with Brock in the anime where he claimed to have been a Rock type gym leader but by Jhoto (and ESPECIALLY Hoenn), he was MOSTLY catching everything BUT rock types!
Having rock types is a good means of coverage for well, flying types
Looking at Bulbapedia, Brock started with a Geodude and Onix. His only Rock-types by the end of the series are Geodude (It didn't evolve after all that time!?) and Sudowoodo.
@@TheAzulmagia He has a Golem in the manga
@@ksoundkaiju9256 and he picked the worst rock type possible. At least use Golem or Rhydon if you aren’t gonna stick to your type specialty. Even Sudowoodo would’ve been a better pick than Onix.
Faulkner's beta team is kind of interesting from a story point. There's that whole thing about Team Rocket forcing Magikarp to evolve early. Game Freak must of been thinking about what levels even mean from a non-game play perspective.
Yep.
People take for granted what gen 2 did to set the Pokemon formula in stone, but it really does look like they were originally angling for a natural vs. artificial training theme with this game before dropping it in the name of consistency.
The rival's general attitude, the forced evolution radio, the friendship evolutions...
It honestly feels like that was the Imposter Oak angle, possibly: come to us, we'll evolve your pokemon for you. Trust me, I'm Oak.
8:32 Erika is supposed to have a friend that’s part of team Rocket according to the TCG, I wonder if she was supposed to show up in the game.
Imposter Oak was supposed to show up in Gold and Silver originally back during it's Spaceworld 97 days, so its always possible.
Where?
If I had to give an explanation for Falkner's low-level Pidgeotto - as well as Pidgeot if it was included - is that it's deliberately holding back during the fight, since this is the first gym you're challenging. Like, if you challenged Falkner as your eighth gym, those birds would be going all-out instead.
Pidgeotto can also be explained by the fact you can just catch wilds Pidgeotto in gen 1.
@@sheogorath6834 That's a good point as well.
I mean, you can get a Level 3 Pidgeot in Let's Go if you're riding a Flying-type Pokémon, so, I guess it's how Falkner could've got him?
The alternate idea I had was that maybe his Pidgeot - and Pidgeotto for that matter - is deliberately holding back, since this is the first gym you're challenging. Like, if this was the 8th, those birds would be going all-out.
Silver having a Haunter and Kadabra in Victory Road is a great touch for story reasons. He's a total jackass. He has no friends to trade with to evolve those pokémon.
When you run into him again later, he's started to reform, so it makes sense for those pokémon to be evolved at that point. Golbat seems like a mistake though.
The rival having a Ryhorn is probably a subtle nod to his dad being Giovonni & a ground type gym leader. itd be very easy to imagine him having access/getting given a Ryhorn offscreen
Lt Surge has only a Raichu in Yellow
I could not imagine E4 Koga without his Forretress. It suits him so well.
Yeah, but over Weezing, his former ace Pokemon in Red and Blue? If they really wanted to give him a Forretress, they could've gotten rid of Ariados
@@essentiel2b I never mentioned Weezing at all.
@@Kivamusicchannel my bad, but you still get the point
How does it suit him?! He’s a poison specialist, and Forretress is immune to it!
@@JZJ7777 It suits his ninja theme of setting up hazards and traps. They had more than enough poison types to give him, but they chose Forretress. I’m not the biggest fan of giving a type specialist exclusively that type so it’s just my opinion.
Falkner having a level 10 Pidgeot is pretty hillarious and it absolutely suits him 😂 Honestly make the Pidgeot level 13 like his ace in HGSS and make it his ONLY Pokemon and it would be an awesome Gym fight, not balanced in the slightest but unique and memorable
The funny thing about Jhoto is that a lot of Evolutions are under their actual level. Lance gets the most attention but it's everywhere. They could have explained it away by making it that the Rocket experiment at Lake of Rage was causing Pokemon all around the region to evolve abnormally or something, but they just left us with what we got. Another explanation could be that the characters are supposed to be experienced, but bell curved to your level at the time XD
That’s because there is 16 badges so a lot of gym leaders would’ve had to have lower levels to make the gradual increase make sense.
The interesting thing is that Falkner does have a Pidgeot in the anime, but it's definitely a coincidence, they probably just didn't want Ash fighting a Pidgey after facing the League
edit: there's also a trainer with a level 25 Pidgeot in the final game apparently
Its long since been fanon made canon in Generations that Leaders use teams based on badge count, if that helps anything.
It doesn't help Ash, but he can't be helped
@@Bird-wz7nx The problem with this is that the rest of Johto's gym leaders didn't really change that much in the anime, Falkner is just a weird exception
Yeah, it would’ve made sense having the team in the game as in the anime because Pikachu would’ve destroyed them. So I still having Charizard it makes sense to face a Pidgeot. Johto is the only game where Ash brings Pokémon from a previous generation and besides starting his journey and beginning in Hoenn when he starts all over he still has Charizard and other Pokémon so it be made challenging. Before the second gym leader, he pretty much got rid of all of his previous Pokémon, except Bulbasaur.
@@ChocoLixo2 Didn't Ash still had his Charizard in that fight?
@@sheogorath6834 yeah
Falkner had a Pidgeot in the anime, so now I'm wondering if the anime writers were given the beta team when working on that episode.
10:30 correction: There are enough Dark-types in Gen 2 for a full team: the 2 hounds, Murkrow, Sneasel, Umbreon and T-Tar. They could have just given Houndour as a starting mon to Karen (Bruno uses Onix after all which is arguably worse with 2 4x weaknesses to starter types), could also give her T-Tar since Lance comes after and has 3 pesudos not just 1. Could also always use dupes like Lance and Will if balance is an issue
Maybe Silver having a Rhyhorn and later Rhydon shows his connection to Giovanni since it was confirmed the two are father and son
Good Vid! Those were some interesting teams...
Honestly im Glad Pidgeot wasnt on falkner's final team cuz at first i would laugh seeing a lvl 10 pidgeot lol! Then would be pissed since it would be hard to beat. Ariana's Radio Tower team was the most hilarious... Two Tangela lol! Imagine being in an intense situation where u gotta stop a person from ruining your plans and you use two tangelas! I'd laugh so hard. Anyways , you gained a sub ❤
I think Falkner's Pidgeot is supposed to show that it was his father's Pokémon, a full strength Pidgeot, but that Falkner has not enough practice with it so it underperforms severely, which is represented by the abnormally low level.
At least Fortress likes to go boom. So that kind of fits with Koga being a ninja rather then being a Posion specialist. Ninjas did use bombs. I personally like it when they give trainers Pokèmon that match what the character does like being a ninja into consideration when making their teams. You can give Koga any stealthy Pokèmon and it’ll make sense he’d have it on his team
For Koga they definitely threw Fortress in there as a sign to his ninja heritage and for morr Johto representation.
10:12 False, she could've had a team of 5 Dark types. You're forgetting that Tyranitar is also Rock/Dark, so they could've simply replaced Vileplume and Gengar with Sneasel and Tyranitar. Granted, that might've been a bit strong for this battle and they wanted to give Tyranitar to Blue, but a 5 Pokemon Dark team would've been possible if they really wanted it.
I agree Karen deserved a Tyranitar as her Ace
Umbreon as a lead if perfect alongside Tyranitar that's tough to beat
It makes sense if Lance can have Illegal Dragonites why can't Keren have Tyranitar
Blue didn't get Tyranitar until Gen 3 even
Whitney with just Miltank, if it had the same moveset, would definitely have been harder. Many cheese strategies rely on setting up or using rage while her Clefairy is useless and then just bulldoze the Miltank, which wouldn't be possible anymore if it was *just* the Miltank.
Ironically, her Lv. 22 Miltank on hardcore rulesets would be likely easier than her lv. 20/19 Miltank since the higher level means more pokémon evolve (being unevolved against that thing being one of the reasons why it's so tough) and a few more moves might be learned.
I was hoping seeing the beta team for falkner would indirectly give insights about his baffling team, but it actually gives more questions than answers.
I've always noticed an unspoken rule that E4 members use a pokemon out of their typing to assert skill, Loreleis Slowbro, Brunos 2 Onix, Agathas Arbok and Golbat, and Lance's Non Dragons, you can see it in Gen 2's E4 in all the nods to gen 1, Even Will uses Slowbro and Jynx.
I watch so much pokemon game lore content and this is my favorite video I’ve seen in years
I don't mind Elite 4 members having a secondary type in addition to their main type. If anything I think it makes them a more interesting fight and separates them from gym leaders.
In Gen 2 these secondary types makes sense thematically too: Bug pairs well with Poison, Poison pairs well with Dark, and and Flying pairs well with Dragon.
2:43 Lt surge had a single raichu
Morty using the Gengar line was laughable enough...but Falkner using the entire Pidgeot line with a *MASSIVELY* underleveled Pidgeot...?! Man...perhaps we were a tad bit too harsh to the final Gym Leader teams.
Red and Blue's Beta team levels would've been more fair, fitting in better with GSC's infamous level curve than their Final team levels.
I like the “illegal” evolution ideas. It kind of ties in with the theme at the Lake of Rage. Magikarp being forced to evolve etc.
Koga's beta E4 team makes sooooo much more sense. Nothing against Forretress, but it always looked out of place on that team, especially as Weezing's replacement (Weezing of course being Koga's ace in Red and Blue)
Silver having a Rhydon was also a huge missed opportunity the more I think about it, considering what we know about him being Giovanni's son now
The funny thing about Blue's team is that even with the level drops, he would still be the strongest Kanto gym leader with his beta team
Red wouldn't be as iconic and would have so much less aura if his team was in the 60s instead of in the high 70s
1:41 That would have beaten the record of Commander Mars's Purugly in Diamond and Pearl, which is 22 levels below its evolution level.
5:51 Sneasel's design is actually the same as in Spaceworld 97, with an updated sprite. This demo was also a few months before the final game if I'm not mistaken, meaning that the Sneasel we all know was pretty much rushed into the game. They didn't even have time to change it's pallete from the old design in Gold and Silver, as only in Crystal did they change its color palette to the one used to this day.
6:43 And yet Cyrus, the guy who absolutely hates emotions, does get a Crobat, and he didn't have to wait until the postgame to do so.
8:44 and 9:56 I'm guessing they were originally going to bring back the entire Kanto Elite 4 before dropping Agatha and Lorelei for two new characters instead. Lorelei certainly wouldn't have left her post to protect Four Island in FRLG if they went with this original plan.
It'd explain why neither female Elite Four member had an explanation of where they went at the time, or why Agatha still seems to be missing without a trace after her battle against Red.
falkner should have had hoot hoot natu and maby murkrow
I'm surprised Karen didn't have a Tyranitar yeah it would have been illegal yet Champion Lance can have 3 Illegal Dragonites
A Tyranitar would have been a Perfect Ace for Keren it's a Dark Type and a Pseudo Legendary aw well
Thank you for sharing, I do enjoy doing comparisons and thinking of the difference in not just Pokémon but basically anything that I can think of! This was nice to watch
Great vid, you have a new subscriber ^^
Quick note though you mentioned Whitney would be the only gym leader to use a single Pokémon, however Lt. Surge already claimed that honour in Pokémon yellow.
You str right though that to this day he's the only one and Whitney would have been the last
Also rivals golbat at l 20 would technically be legal,as you can catch level 15 golbat in the wild, in my mortar
Thanks, I appreciate it!
Bugsy did in fact have a couple different team members. Even had a completely different design.
Bugsys design had him wearing a white tuxedo jacket and pants. His team consisted of a metapod, ledian (it was changed drastically and looked like it could actually hold its own) and his ace was pinser. The bug type gym would have been in wat was beta goldenrod with the bug catching contest being in said city.
Yeah this seemed off compared to the beta I’ve seen, where a vast majority of the johto dex was completely different and the map layout was drastically different as well
The gym leaders are also taking advantage of team rockets evolution inducing broadcast, imagine if they foreshadowed that the entire game!
Falkner having Skarm and Bruno having Steelix would have been cool
I never understood why they didn’t have noctowl at night time to show Case the night and day cycle
I just started play Gold 97 reforged so I’ve been looking for videos like this haha! Cheers
That explains why Faulkner had. Pidgeot in the anime and ash fought it with his Charizard
Interesting to see the rival would have 2 pokemon with higher levels than its starter, too
Rhydon was a better fit for Silver because all of his Pokemon would’ve looked intimidating(with Feraligatr as his canon starter). I always saw Magneton as a “nerd’s” Pokemon, something a bully like Silver would never use.
interesting how some of the teams used to have a DNA of here, let's show off a whole line!
2:42 Uhhh Yellow version Lt. Surge??? Immediately thought of him because that was where I got stuck as a kid and wouldn't beat him for 20 years (gave up on Gen 1 when I got Crystal Version). If there are any others I am not thinking of him but he was a particularly annoying boss and I will never forget how much he missed me off, all he had was his Raichu on his team
Falkner not having natu or skarmory shows the devs truly hated that kid.
Skamory would have been a menace!
Silver probably got Magneton so he has both a Steeltype, and a Dark Type in his Team.
Weezing over Gengar for Koga, Weezing was his original ace after all.
Silver owning a Rhydon makes sense because Giovanni is his dad
Everyone always complains about witney and her miltank, but even as a kid I never remember having an issue with her lol. I picked cyndaquil in silver and chik in gold. No idea why I never had and issue with her
I think Red was going to originally have Mewtwo for his psychic type but they switched it out for espeon which is still a hard hitter but not as OP.
I want to comment that falkner couldve caught his pidgeotto in viridian forest as the level matches up. Seeing as we know that the yellow version is technically canon due to red having pikachu.
How do you manage to post to so many channels so often?? I'm very impressed.
I do this full time, trying to make it my job! So I make a video every day of the week!
Great video!!!
Thanks!
If you start with chikorita your supposed to grab a geodude, fight would have still been a cakewalk.
Rhydon and Alakazam being on Blue's final team is also a good reason to remove Rhydon from Silver's
So Agatha and Lorelei was supposed to be in the elite 4 originally in gold and silver wow
Hoothoot is found during the night, Pidgey is found during the night- ergo, no Hoothoot on his team because Falkner has a strict curfew, and he needed an extra 2nd Pidgey he doesn’t use in battle to Fly to Viridian Forest to get the rare Level 9 Pidgeotto (Possible in Yellow). The first Pidgey is for the gym battle. Brainstormed fan theory. On a scale from 0-31, how would you rate it? 0 being Tauros-crap nonsense, and 31 meaning it’s a legit lore-nuke.
Im still surprised Laparas isn't in Red's teams
A very interesting and informative video
Happy to hear that!
Falkner having a level 9 Pidgeotto I thought it was an Easter egg because you could catch one at level nine in Pokémon yellow
Falkner should have had
Noctowl
Xatu
Skarmory
Pidgeot
Feel like you’re too hung up on evolution levels you can encounter loads of Pokémon in the wild under the “standard” levels
I prefer beta sneasel it looks pretty mean. GS design looked better with it actually having ice in the design like some kind of ice kunai lodged in its head
Love your username. Very fun video. I subscribed, hope you keep making awesome videos
Thanks so much, I really appreciate it!
Love the video. Are you perhaps Dutch?
Yessir
@@Pichupedia, ik kon het horen aan je stem. Gaaf kanaal heb je met mooie content.
Why in the world does Karen not have a Tyranitar?
Yeah, it's the only Pseudo not on someone's team in the league Iirc aside from Kommo-O (who got his uber buffed 2 on 1 totem pokémon battle instead)
Lance has Dragonite
Drake has Salamence, Steven has Metagross
Cynthia has Garchomp
Ghetsis has Hydreigon, iirc Iris in B2W2 as champ aswell
Diantha has Goodra
Leon has Dragapult
Hassel has Frigibax
Karen not having the Tyranitar is a super weird exception in the series.
Because you get Tyranitar at level 55, Karen's strongest Pokemon, Houndoom is at level 47. They made the Dragonites underleveled for Lance because he is the Champion of the region I'd assume.
Better question is why doesn't Brock have a Tyranitar, in his case the levels could easily surprass Lance as he is post-game and they do in HGSS
@@getkosiorekt8345 this is also the same game with the level 9 Pidgeotto. There's also a random trainer with a level 20 slowbro
@@getkosiorekt8345Usually I'd say sure, would be an underlevelled Tyranitar... but... gen 2 specifically is infamous for being chock-full of blatantly underlevelled pokémon.
Falkner's Pidgeotto, Morty's Haunters, Chuck's Primeape, Pryce's Dewgong and Piloswine, Petrel's Weezing... Having Karen's ace simply be an underlevelled Tyranitar would've been no problem considering Houndoom is already Archer's ace in the same game anyways.
Can you do a video about the beata teams of Red and Blue ? I always thought they were suoer interesting like Giovanni being a flying type specialist and Agatha specializing in Eeveelutions instead of ghost types
2:40 not only whitney also yellows surge has 1 raichu
The Kanto leaders had better Johto representation than the Johto leaders 🫠
Can you make a part 2?
2:36
So, Surge using only a Raichu in Yellow doesn’t count because…?
I still don't know why the elite 4 arnt repping a full team of 6. They are meant to be the best trainers in the region yet some of them just suck 😂
Lol the dark type user name is... karen 😂
Falkner having a Pidgeot would be reference to the anime which I always thought was weird but now makes sense because I always thought it was weird that he had a Pidgeot in the anime because Ash still had his Charizard at all the other gym leaders had regular leveled Pokémon. But I guess they didn’t want to make Faulkner week when Ash still had his Kanto Pokémon.
That beta version was a thing before the episode with Falkner.
@@sheogorath6834 maybe they’re coming out around the same time. The Falkner episode was produced a year before the golden silver games came out.
Also Falkner in the Anime also Used Hoothoot yet it's not in the game Game freak totally Fumbled that
i dont understand WHY falkner doidnt had an hoothoot
pid-JOT!
Yo where the hell is Joey?? ? no Joey no Like!
awesome video.
Thanks!
I don't think the lack of Johto Pokémon is a problem
I thought that too
Gen one Pokémon yellow Lt Surge only had his Richu