Like most western counties or best years were the 50s and early 60s when our politicians thought long term and bluesky in their thinking... unlike these days where they only do what will get them reelected... projects like hydroelectric , Marsden point , the harbor bridge , geothermal power, etc would never see day light now!!!.❤️🇳🇿
@@jackdeniston6150 Reading your comment it seems, you are the example of why low 'ability' needs resources and those capable do not. *resources. *lower case (a), upper case used following a full stop. You're welcome.
Oh but everyone learns differently we were told under labour and not every race does well with tests. So lets teach however anyone wants and then not test. Be kind NZ. Nice one labour
I remember vividly as a kid in intermediate school in the 70s sitting in class well the teacher was smoking and studying the "form guide" well listing to the horse racing on a transistor radio... we've had bad teachers in our education system for a long time now!!!.❤️🇳🇿
@schlookie they committed a fallacy while accusing someone of the same fallacy and said nothing else of substance. It's such pure stupidity it's almost poetry.
I guess they misread "we've had bad teachers in our education system for a long time now" as "all our teachers have always been bad." That would make their comment logical, but it's frustrating to see people misread so badly!
@@echoromeo5879 not anymore! Welcome to charter schools. No more excuses. I hope you all make a difference to the lives of children instead of moaning and groaning about those that bother to educate.
A few years a go i was talking to a teacher of over 50 years experanc . The subject of quality New zealand in the oecd countries. We used to rank 4th or 5 th . To day we have progresed 85th. I said has the world got better ? . NO was the reply . Yes idid say NO .
Michael. We need to remember that we now live In a work place/world where incompetence is rewarded instead of punished. There is no incentive to do a good job anymore..
Thank God for your understand ing of the issues, and expressing that understanding of the issues that face our society, often described as a rant, I think on these important matters, a rant is entirely appropriate, it expresses the utter frustration many out here feel!
The "old days" of teacher training colleges (+ university for secondary) .. free of/token fees in exchange for bonding (years of work in NZ) and achievement. Today: money for "bums on seats" ahead of quality [tertiary institutes]. I have been horrified to see the childish writing of teachers charged with that very subject. It must be hard for proficient teachers working alongside incompetent "peers" and forcing a smile in the staffroom; the problem with such is the good ones will leave. Yes we did have some lazy teachers of old, but not like today. Schools with good teachers attract good teachers, "birds of a feather.." Teachers below par need to be either re-trained or directed to a different career as per other industries.
As a former Ringi of Wanganuo a name Michael does not like in 19 70s I was a boarder at the school we had some of the top teachers with oxford and Cambridge degrees but over 20 years of actual teacher experience and experience of life they were well traveled and often worked in industry before becoming teachers. We had for example Dr Harper who worked for Nasa and later come to the school to teach physics, we had Jim Wallace who taught French but was top Rugby player and coach who spent time in the uk and later came to Nz it later went to bcome an all black selector and wrote various books, we had Peter Irvine who taught math and was coach of the rowing team many of those former rowers who trained on the Wanganui river later would serve Nz in the Olympic team and became captains of industry. However we had a teacher by the name of Wilson he taught History and English. He did not have any degree but was recruilited after ww2 as former Tank Commander.. something that has been lost in history that in late 40s and early 50s there was massive shortage teachers and then always will be but in those times with expanding population of the baby boom a shortage of young men because of war.. there was a training programme of only 6 to 12 weeks to give those who come from a training background a crash course in teaching and Chesty Wilson as we called him was a brilliant English teacher .. I often wondered if those have a natural grasp of teaching, have life experience in their chosen subject from industry and generally life exp itself why are they excluded from teaching!😂
@@julianwalls1077 I was requested to teach at a tertiary institution around 2000 in programming languages they could not cover, found it enjoyable as the mostly adult students were highly attentive. Realising a number of students wanted more depth in underlying system operation, machine language, bios, and processor operation (outside of curriculum) I started a free and unpaid 1 hour class after hours and shortly found I had a full class with other tutors filling the back rows. No - I did not have a degree in teaching*. Our young kids need to be given a strong basis in reading, writing and math, LEARN HOW TO LEARN, and how x relates to "the real world" by teachers proficient in the subjects they teach. Standards, evaluation.. not just identify kids that are slipping, but get/give help. Presently Education, when viewed as an industry, is poorly performing and it's output will affecf all industry downstream and our country will suffer. Teachers need to be trained to, and achieve, a high standard. I doubt any significant number of professionals would change to teaching young children as that is a different area of expertise. Industry does not like carrying poorly performing workers - they need additional training or redirection.. the same should apply to teachers. For intermediate and secondary students - regular exposure to visits from people of industry and professions can have positive outcomes. I did poorly in class in primary, teachers gave poor reports.. the Department of Education had me evaluated, turned out I had a high I.Q. and was moved to a private college. *My backgound was military communications UHF,VHF,HF,SSB,Digital,Multiplex, etc.. programming: High level languages and had strength in low level: firmware, background processing, drivers, protocols. Was engineer and director of a company manufacturing SSB communications for exploration and military. .. time for this old kid to go play "Transport Fever 2" - now there's a game for schools.. economics, development, planning in a 3D world. 📉
Mums a (recently retired) primary school teacher.i asked her this very question the other day. Her response shocked me. Kids come to school not knowing how to count to 10, some can’t even write their own names, and many don’t even know what a book is.. seems the real issue is societal in nature, where many parents are either too busy or uninterested in teaching basic skills at home prior to their kids going to school.
You nailed it! Michael ! They cut vital programs, leaving us in the lurch. With cell phones dulling kids' minds and no homework, the basics are slipping, while schools skim over subjects. They’re more focused on feel-good vibes and climate change than core education. Teaching is super tough with behavior issues, and underfunding doesn’t help. But there’s hope-passionate kids can still make it. I failed high school, but now I’m a teacher, having re-learned math the hard way. Sadly, school management often hinders more than helps.
Yes Michael, we do have an oligarchical political system that is essentially a uniparty that does not fight and act for the people of this nation, but instead agmonst the uniparty members, fights for power to control the people of this nation.
Michael. This is for you! In my opinion the Teachers council needs to be overhauled or abolished. They also have a role in creating hoops for Teachers to jump through, many of which are totally unnecessary It has become the political power which controls the teaching profession
When corporal punishment was taken away "certain" students ran amok. When these first groups of students who never knew consequences for their actions entered college it was a violence rules system, this includes the classroom with teachers who cowered and tried to appease the low life's.
It is quite strange. I grew up in an African village in one of the top 3 poorest countries in the world. My parents could not read or write their own names in their own language. And I am not exaggerating at all. I do remember going to neighbors to help them read letters from my older brother😂. Our primary school teachers had NOT gone to university, teachers colleges where just 2 years after year 10. YET I have seen year 12 kids who cannot do the sort of math that we were doing in year 6. Like a simple quadratic equation. Or a word problem with simple linear equation in the end. I reiterate, our parents were illiterate for most part, so it was up to teachers to teach children, there was no help do homework at home cause basically after year 3, you were the genius in the family 😂😂.
I was in Mozambique in 2001 , up by the Rio save river. A bunch of young school kids came out of school and made a beeline for me ( a white guy), so quite a novelty. I had a look at their school books. I was really impressed with their written English and their arithmatic. .
@michaelholmes1805 and actually English might be their third language after their mother tongue/dialect and Portuguese. In Africa, they still teach the old school way with the teacher in charge, so kids pay attention...but also, education is the only out of poverty, so any kids learn as if their life depends on, cause it does.
Well said Michael! I completely agree. I have just retired from working as a teacher aide (support teacher we are now called) in a primary school and can say the whole education system is based on no consequences. Including for the children. They will never learn that there are consequences for your actions! The maths teaching astounds me. The children are not taught their times tables - the basic knowledge required for further maths!?
So true the new maths in primary school as a parent I could not believe it was so confusing compared to what I was taught in 60s to 70s. And these kids would have to unlearn it before entering secondary.. However still some schools push time tables in my former exp as a teacher particularly the private schools and catholic ones!😮
I remember years ago when my daughter was a lot younger so I'm going back quite a few years now. We were in the car and we heard on the radio that the government of the day. And if I remember rightly I think it was the Helen Clark government .We're going to drop New Zealand learning standards of literacy so that others could keep pace with the rest. So take out of that what you will. And I remember this happened clearly I can even remember the intersection that I was on at the time. And I just looked at my young daughter in the car and thought. Well that's our schooling just gone down the gurgler
Just follow a primary teacher around for a week and you’ll see what the problem is. Probably too much non-teaching paperwork and repeated “training” in the latest fad, plus emails etc
At my age (about to retire) i believe you are 100% on to it Michael. I am also certain that it was never like this back when we did not use our version of the MMP System. I am certain life was far more constructive here in NZ in that Big Things got done & we could see it but for some reason with the Wholesale Cancellation of Common Sense i fear that we may never be able to get back to how great our country New Zealand was....
It all fell apart with tomorrow’s schools and removal of school Cert.and UE. Etc. standards were dropped,the continued erosion of science teaching,what happened to school cert chemistry,physics ,biology maths
Politicians want to dumb down young people so that they are too stupid to see through the lies and deception when it comes to their agendas when they achieve power.
there are some good teachers however there are teachers that are not fit for purpose... never been outside of a classroom... went to school, went to teachers college and then went back to school... zero life experience and fully institutionalised
Add to this the maorification of the education system (in all its aspects). For example, take a look at the hoops one needs to jump through to achieve the $5,000 Advanced Classroom Expertise Allowance, at the top of the basic primary teaching pay scale. It is racist in the extreme!
Politicians represent the people who voted them in. Sadly Michael your comments are from an age past when the Representatives actually believed that and had experience doing something else - now our House of Representatives is populated by people straight out of left wing, woke Universities who bring their ideologies with them, untested by what happens in the real world.
A few years ago my daughter came home with some maths as homework she couldn’t understand any of it and neither could I it was simple diversion but the way she was taught to do it made absolutely no sense the answers where completely wrong and no matter what way I did it it didn’t make any sense this was the new maths.then she brought her spelling book home with words to learn and the TEACHER had got the spelling wrong!! We circled the words with red pen and spelt it correctly and wrote a note asking what the hell was going on …..no reply.most of these teachers couldn’t pass the tests they hand out to the children too busy worrying about teaching kids about LBGQT rubbish
Good to hear about the Maths. I have been concerned for several years that my grandchildren do not know their basic times tables by the end of year 4-5, as we did a couple of generations ago, and it seems that this may be because teachers do not focus on them at school. If parents don’t follow up at home., they may never know the basics - a secondary maths teacher told me that many children don’t know them when they start secondary schools.
They actively avoid teaching times tables now. Responses I've had when I ask why not generally fall back on "they have the internet and calculator in their pocket, so why bother?"
Utter nonsense. It's the fact kids are turning up to school and they don't know how to behave. Teachers spend half the time teaching them to be respectful and listen! They should be well able to do this before they arrive at school, the teachers job is not to parent but to educate!
Utter over- simplification . Don't just blame it on parenting when we've completely lost our way in politics, education, and personal standards in NZ . The liberal radicals have reeked havoc increasingly over our younger generations for too long , and now they're predominantly self entitled narcissistic ly trained activists ....fighting for their lost identity .
Well said, Michael. There’s so much to say about this. Who decided that all teachers needed to have a degree from a university to teach? Where was the proof that the three year long teachers certificate course from a Teachers Training College was an inadequate qualification to teach at primary school level? ( as a slight digression, the same question could be asked about hospital based training for nurses) Teachers unions adamant refusal to recognise that there are teachers in the system who are failing the clients has protected these incompetents for decades. Just look at the squealing from teacher unions whenever anyone suggests pay based on merit or results. For years now pupils have not been ranked on results but everyone pretends even the most intellectually challenged child has every chance of becoming a rocket scientist. Don’t want to hurt the little darlings feelings when in fact ranking might spur them on to do better - leapfrog Joe Blogs at report time. That never seems to apply on the sport field, so why aren’t the feelings of the torpids considered there too, if it is so important? How much harm has integrating special needs pupils into the classroom done? The same applies to the persistently disruptive, bullying and poorly behaved. Teachers constantly give these pupils much more attention than those who just want to get on with the lesson and actually learn. The curriculum is crowded with stuff of dubious value in the long run, and I include the time given to the Māori language in this. Concentrate on your three Rs like the countries at the top of the league tables do and leave the cultural stuff to the family. Luxon is such a disappointment and Nicola Willis is no better. Unless they stop fence sitting, trying to please everyone, they will find the political niche they should be in has been occupied by ACT and NZFirst, in much the same way as labour has moved out of their niche to try and compete with the looney far left of the greens.
As a teacher , it often infuriated me how some teachers taught at one level. Bright children held back by under-achievers. One Canadian teacher stated she preferred the class to learn laterally. In my book it made school boring and lacked stimulus and incentive to challenge and extend learning. I doubt today's pupils could complete my standard 4 math or English tests v 1970! My grandkiddies have appalling handwriting, little semantic knowledge and would have trouble writing a factual report. School has been' dumbed down'.
Yes we now know what doesn't work in Education. Lets start afresh by recruiting some people from Finland or Ireland or some other place where they have people and systems that are effective.
My grand children sing maori song's and i asked them to sing that song in english and they could not, i said to them you are singing a song and you have no idea what you are singing,what a waste of learning when the children have no idea what the hell they are singing ,its time to stop maori language and start educating the children to read write and maths,scientist
Stop Maori language you say? I think that's the crux of your complaint. Even if your grandchildren could sing the same song in English, I'd wager a bet that it would not change your views at all. I believe that your actual problem with it is purely because it's "Maori". I'm grateful that your grandchildren will never be subjected to being strapped or punished for speaking their own language on school grounds. Surely that's a good thing.
Stop Maori language you say? I think that's the crux of your complaint. Even if your grandchildren could sing the same song in English, I'd wager a bet that it would not change your views at all. I believe that your actual problem with it is purely because it's "Maori". I'm grateful that your grandchildren will never be subjected to being strapped or punished for speaking (or singing) their own language on school grounds. Surely that's a good thing.
@@Rodtang-x5z no what I was saying is sing In maori and sing in English so the children know what they are singing about, you can take from that what you want
@eileencoulter6263 There is one thing I agree with you on. While I find great delight in hearing non Maori speak or sing in Maori, I don't think it's fair on people if they feel they're having to learn a language they have no interest in learning. Forcing people to do so only breeds resentment. In my opinion, nobody should be forced to do anything they don't want to do.
My kids local school is what would be deemed a decide 10- affluent suburb, well resourced school etc. I can assure you that makes no lick of difference when the principle and many of the teachers are woefully inadequate. Parents ask and push and insist and question, and we are ignored, gaslite, pushed back on. My son is academically strong and wasn't given any attention, and the confused looks I got from his teacher and associate principle when I asked for him to be challenged was startling. Meanwhile his good friend in the same class with challenging learning needs due to autism was also woefully unsupported- lack of teaching plans, a teacher and school making excuses I could go on and on. Another friends kid who is maybe an average student but has a gift in art... also ignored and struggling. Most of the class goes to number works as a result. In other words the school isn't doing right by any of the kids- not the academic kids, not the creative kids, not the truly vulnerable kids. It's shocking and unacceptable. We are sensing my son to private school because we have all but given up, something I'd rather not do, money I'd rather not spend, but here we are.
I think private school is worth the money, particularly for boys . It is more customised and the uniqueness of the child, their strengths & weaknesses recognised . Public school too easy to fall through the gaps . That’s only my opinion , having experienced both with my children
Here are corrections and a query for your comment. It's principal not principle, gaslight not gaslite and sending not sensing; and what exactly are 'number works'? State school class sizes, in mainstream subjects, do not realistically always allow for the individualised educational delivery that you would like. Optional subjects often run as combined multilevel classes which are not easy to manage. Teacher burnout can sometimes be attributed to trying to meet those expectations, but lacking the time and resourcing to do so. Private schools have smaller class sizes and teachers have more time to attend to individual needs so it's not a fair comparison. However your children may have a better chance of being catered for there. Sadly like with most services education can be reliant on how much you are prepared to pay.
I used to flat with teachers once upon a time. They could not even add simple fractions. 1/4 + 1/2 was beyond them - So I got more cake. Since then the rot would be even worse -A quick look at the attendees of teaching training college says it all. I had friends from Hungary who were 3 years head of locals at 15 years old
It takes parents and grandparents to teach kids the basics these days before they start school. I taught my children to know the alphabet read basic words how to write their name, parents ph number and the concept of addition and subtraction, multiplication, it was up to the schools to pick up on that and take it further...I was told not to teach them too much as they would get disinterested in the classroom while other kids caught up. As a result they were mostly a year ahead of their starting class group. It's time well invested if you help your child. I am now helping my grand child with homework and I have to say I'm impressed with the reading program and math (junior level) it is challenging him which is good, we have a lot of fun.
WE need to no exactly whats going on in the class rooms ..we need CCTV cameras installed in all class rooms that will allow parents to access any time and keep in check what is or is not being taught .. and stop the branwash that gos on right now ..
Excellent idea. Not only would parents see how teachers teach, they'd also see how their perfect little darlings behave. Some parents would be in for a huge shock.
Doesn’t matter who is in government or minister of education teachers will never reach consensus on anything put forward so long as they have the backbencher salary chip on their shoulders.
Rangiora High school cost me 14 thousand a year ( 3 years ) for my son ,,, what a waste of money that was ,,They didn't even do a basic comprehension level check ( basic 101 ) and the assistant spent half the time on her cell phone
Indeed, it's a scandal in that the teachers unions have fought performance assessments for decades. Ask a teacher and they will tell you - they cannot be measured, unlike of course nearly all other professions. Since over half of the total union membership in NZ are teachers and most of the rest are PSA members, it's hardly surprising that their little hegemony has never been broken.
Teachers have to teach what they are told to teach. So the source of the problem is the person/people telling them what to teach. Essentially this comes from unelected bureaucrats and consultants in the Ministry of Education. For example, teachers don't just "decide" to not teach times tables. They were literally told not to by the Ministry, aided by weak minded principals
The message is getting around nice to hear someone who's onto it say the message is being sent takes a while to catch up on the message now...10years? Wonder how much distraction caused by smartphones have had on all of us...
Teachers can only do so much, it's up to parents to help their kids I sit down with my son 1 hour a day make sure he does his homework and help him with anything he dosent understand from his lessons
My wife’s a kindergarten teacher 3 years training with practice now replaced with A one year part time degree, ministry of education used to check on educational achievement now more interested in paperwork go figure
It's a mess. So many teachers try their best, but even the top quality ones get hamstrung by policy. Nobody in parliament would put up with the working conditions for the salary. It's a sad truth that a lot of teachers are on antidepressants and anti-anxiety medications, chain smoke/vape and/or drink. The for-profit training centres aren't exactly keeping the idiots out either. Fancy now having to PASS HIGHSCHOOL MATHS to be a teacher? Most of them don't understand science either, but that tends to get ignored. It used to be considered the third leg of the stool, alongside english and maths. Now... it's just sad. So many kids just give up in Year 9 because everything is too difficult for them when the "big jump" to prepare them for NCEA has to happen.
And you can't bring an apple for your teacher because they are so expensive. The lack of caning, strapping and sitting in the corner with a dunce cap on is a good thing. I think Michael needs a strong cup of tea and a lie down. If you carry the world on your shoulders, nobody will want to carry you. Great rants from a great mind and all sad but true!
For the past thirty years, if you have dared to criticise teachers and teaching, you will have immediately been on the receiving end of counter-criticsm: you are being negative;;you are being elitist or something;; you are overlooking the difficulties faced by all teachers who are so weighed down that they cannot do their jobs. Plenty more excuses where those came from. And, go back into news archives and check the slipperiness of the official comments upon the release of each PISA report. There are none so blind as those who WILL NOT see.
And schools which do not allow parents into the classrooms unless it’s an open day and then you are treated to a lecture from the kids on the treaty of waitangi.
Ok, so the maths attainment levels are bad. Quick, panic, act, allay the immediate concerns. What about the other outcomes? What about English, History, Science, Chem, Physics, Bio, Economics? At what point does the public get a look in to the more likely problem, that we have systemic dysfunction in education? How does the responsible minister propose to fix polytechs when there's uncertain data about the intake quals?
Uni qually teachers, it's about activism and social construct ideology and not teaching the basics, that's the thing isn't it. Get rid of the woke in the Min of Ed and the Uni's and get into the maths, the reading and writing and commonsense teaching and learning.
Hi Michael. Your antipathy to teachers generally is well-known, but you ask some good questions. Many teachers,especially those entering the middle management level (which is vast and expanding) over the last twenty years are “left” in their ideology. But the problem is their sense of themselves as “right”. Righteous, zealous, and barely pragmatic. The problem started on the other side of the ledger in 1989 with the Tomorrow’s Schools Picot report, which while intended to bring centrist ideology under scrutiny, ironically led to smaller decentralised targets for the ideologues to gain a foothold. While it sought to return choice to parents and the community, it relied on the managerial class to man it, with the attendant opportunity for ideological capture. But the robustness of the actual education system at grassroots teaching level took successive changes to be undermined/transformed (depending on your viewpoint); the introduction of NCEA, the new “curriculum” of developmental levels rather than capability hurdles from 2000, the appearance of social media and cellphones as determinants in children and parents lives, the growing confusion in roles between education/teachers and social responsibilities and welfare (parental abdication equally as culpable), the devaluing socially and economically of teaching as a profession, and the subtle change from “getting an education” to having one “delivered to the client”; these all have led to where we find ourselves. Perhaps a Reign of Terror starting at the top might give impetus to a change, but ultimately we need a plan that will revive the value of education and its practitioners. Without some leadership and focused goals we’ll just keep chopping heads until it’s our own turn for the guillotine (as a student of history I’m sure you will forgive the French Revolution analogy). Regardless of your general assumption about the quality of teachers, there are some good ones out there… the problem being that they hail largely from a time when their experience was based on a successful system, not the current one. That generation of IP is in the process of retiring over the next 5-10 years (me, humbly, included) and the percentage of worthy successors is small. Is there an answer or example to follow? Well, you could look at Finland. Also a cot case in education in the mid 70s, but now leading the world and the closest of the leaders to our social/political character. I would urge us to support positive change rather than only purge generally.
Dog whistling...who and what determines 'useless'? You? On the spectrum of international journalists from Andrew Marr, Andrew Neil downward, you are an uninformed voice in the pub.
Sound like you had the 'benefit' of a NZ education. Kids in NZ are generally as thick as those from the US. Neither country likes the reality being voiced. Stupid people are easier to manage than smart ones. You only have to see how many dummies rolled up their sleeves for the 'safe and effective' in their shoulders over the past 4 years. Some repeat the process to this day.
They need to get back to the black board not given a piece of paper, no tech book spelling and math and English. Not computer. They should be technician of DIY New Zealand
I started to learn how to teach at a local university in Wellington, I had to quit t training at this university. I went to the UK to be trained as a teacher, I got REAL teacher training there and have been offered to teach in the UK by the DfE. I hope things work out in NZ, I want to return here to teach but until things change, I am happy training in maths and science to other students in other countries.
Mediocracy. That seems to be the theme of what NZ aims for across the board. Excellence is frowned upon.
Like most western counties or best years were the 50s and early 60s when our politicians thought long term and bluesky in their thinking... unlike these days where they only do what will get them reelected... projects like hydroelectric , Marsden point , the harbor bridge , geothermal power, etc would never see day light now!!!.❤️🇳🇿
Worse, lowest ability get the resourcre, Ability gets punished.
I am not an education supporter, but one thing I do know is that St. Andrews College in Chch, do not frown on kids that get excellence.
@@jackdeniston6150 Reading your comment it seems, you are the example of why low 'ability' needs resources and those capable do not. *resources. *lower case (a), upper case used following a full stop. You're welcome.
@@saregama-r8td You are silly.
Michael....you are brilliant at what you do!!!! Your rants are my favorite to listen to. Spot on again.
Couldn’t agree more.👍🏻
@@mikeholling8830 I agree !
Incompetency is the new normal!!
Backed up by the value of "entitlement" overwhelming "ambition"
Oh but everyone learns differently we were told under labour and not every race does well with tests. So lets teach however anyone wants and then not test. Be kind NZ. Nice one labour
Teaching is like everything else to much diversity training and maorification bs
I remember vividly as a kid in intermediate school in the 70s sitting in class well the teacher was smoking and studying the "form guide" well listing to the horse racing on a transistor radio... we've had bad teachers in our education system for a long time now!!!.❤️🇳🇿
I had amazing teachers growing up in the 80's and 90's so you are not being truthful. It's just an opinion based on your experience.
@arohanui922 what an unusual comment to make.
@schlookie they committed a fallacy while accusing someone of the same fallacy and said nothing else of substance. It's such pure stupidity it's almost poetry.
I guess they misread "we've had bad teachers in our education system for a long time now" as "all our teachers have always been bad." That would make their comment logical, but it's frustrating to see people misread so badly!
@@saregama-r8td Your comment doesn't make sense.
The most important thing is that teachers can speak Te Reo and that students are force fed the same...
Good Point, WE THE PEOPLE ARE IN CHARGE ❤
What sucks more than a useless teacher …… useless teachers that think they are useful.
Please get your teaching degree and get in there bud.
@@saregama-r8td Therein lies the problem. "University based Teaching Degree"!!!
@@echoromeo5879 not anymore! Welcome to charter schools. No more excuses. I hope you all make a difference to the lives of children instead of moaning and groaning about those that bother to educate.
@@saregama-r8tddo they though?
Or is it indoctrination these days?
@@roddas26 I can't help you. Be the change.
Does the Ministry of Education require a thorough clean out ?
Absolutely
Well overdue! I am reliably informed that under the last Govt, Min of Ed staff were actually asking schools what they should be doing!!!!!!
Yes and the universities.
A few years a go i was talking to a teacher of over 50 years experanc .
The subject of quality New zealand in the oecd countries.
We used to rank 4th or 5 th .
To day we have progresed 85th.
I said has the world got better ? .
NO was the reply .
Yes idid say NO .
Most definitely.
Michael. We need to remember that we now live In a work place/world where incompetence is rewarded instead of punished. There is no incentive to do a good job anymore..
Thank God for your understand ing of the issues, and expressing that understanding of the issues that face our society, often described as a rant, I think on these important matters, a rant is entirely appropriate, it expresses the utter frustration many out here feel!
The "old days" of teacher training colleges (+ university for secondary) .. free of/token fees in exchange for bonding (years of work in NZ) and achievement.
Today: money for "bums on seats" ahead of quality [tertiary institutes]. I have been horrified to see the childish writing of teachers charged with that very subject.
It must be hard for proficient teachers working alongside incompetent "peers" and forcing a smile in the staffroom; the problem with such is the good ones will leave. Yes we did have some lazy teachers of old, but not like today. Schools with good teachers attract good teachers, "birds of a feather.."
Teachers below par need to be either re-trained or directed to a different career as per other industries.
As a former Ringi of Wanganuo a name Michael does not like in 19 70s I was a boarder at the school we had some of the top teachers with oxford and Cambridge degrees but over 20 years of actual teacher experience and experience of life they were well traveled and often worked in industry before becoming teachers. We had for example Dr Harper who worked for Nasa and later come to the school to teach physics, we had Jim Wallace who taught French but was top Rugby player and coach who spent time in the uk and later came to Nz it later went to bcome an all black selector and wrote various books, we had Peter Irvine who taught math and was coach of the rowing team many of those former rowers who trained on the Wanganui river later would serve Nz in the Olympic team and became captains of industry. However we had a teacher by the name of Wilson he taught History and English. He did not have any degree but was recruilited after ww2 as former Tank Commander.. something that has been lost in history that in late 40s and early 50s there was massive shortage teachers and then always will be but in those times with expanding population of the baby boom a shortage of young men because of war.. there was a training programme of only 6 to 12 weeks to give those who come from a training background a crash course in teaching and Chesty Wilson as we called him was a brilliant English teacher .. I often wondered if those have a natural grasp of teaching, have life experience in their chosen subject from industry and generally life exp itself why are they excluded from teaching!😂
@@julianwalls1077 I was requested to teach at a tertiary institution around 2000 in programming languages they could not cover, found it enjoyable as the mostly adult students were highly attentive. Realising a number of students wanted more depth in underlying system operation, machine language, bios, and processor operation (outside of curriculum) I started a free and unpaid 1 hour class after hours and shortly found I had a full class with other tutors filling the back rows.
No - I did not have a degree in teaching*.
Our young kids need to be given a strong basis in reading, writing and math, LEARN HOW TO LEARN, and how x relates to "the real world" by teachers proficient in the subjects they teach. Standards, evaluation.. not just identify kids that are slipping, but get/give help.
Presently Education, when viewed as an industry, is poorly performing and it's output will affecf all industry downstream and our country will suffer. Teachers need to be trained to, and achieve, a high standard.
I doubt any significant number of professionals would change to teaching young children as that is a different area of expertise.
Industry does not like carrying poorly performing workers - they need additional training or redirection.. the same should apply to teachers.
For intermediate and secondary students - regular exposure to visits from people of industry and professions can have positive outcomes.
I did poorly in class in primary, teachers gave poor reports.. the Department of Education had me evaluated, turned out I had a high I.Q. and was moved to a private college.
*My backgound was military communications UHF,VHF,HF,SSB,Digital,Multiplex, etc.. programming: High level languages and had strength in low level: firmware, background processing, drivers, protocols. Was engineer and director of a company manufacturing SSB communications for exploration and military.
.. time for this old kid to go play "Transport Fever 2" - now there's a game for schools.. economics, development, planning in a 3D world. 📉
Mums a (recently retired) primary school teacher.i asked her this very question the other day. Her response shocked me. Kids come to school not knowing how to count to 10, some can’t even write their own names, and many don’t even know what a book is.. seems the real issue is societal in nature, where many parents are either too busy or uninterested in teaching basic skills at home prior to their kids going to school.
Why can truancy be so prevalent in our government attendance in the house? Let's start there...
You nailed it! Michael ! They cut vital programs, leaving us in the lurch. With cell phones dulling kids' minds and no homework, the basics are slipping, while schools skim over subjects. They’re more focused on feel-good vibes and climate change than core education. Teaching is super tough with behavior issues, and underfunding doesn’t help. But there’s hope-passionate kids can still make it. I failed high school, but now I’m a teacher, having re-learned math the hard way. Sadly, school management often hinders more than helps.
Yes Michael, we do have an oligarchical political system that is essentially a uniparty that does not fight and act for the people of this nation, but instead agmonst the uniparty members, fights for power to control the people of this nation.
Because so many people keep believing politicians election lies!
Michael. This is for you! In my opinion the Teachers council needs to be overhauled or abolished. They also have a role in creating hoops for Teachers to jump through, many of which are totally unnecessary
It has become the political power which controls the teaching profession
When corporal punishment was taken away "certain" students ran amok. When these first groups of students who never knew consequences for their actions entered college it was a violence rules system, this includes the classroom with teachers who cowered and tried to appease the low life's.
It is quite strange. I grew up in an African village in one of the top 3 poorest countries in the world. My parents could not read or write their own names in their own language. And I am not exaggerating at all. I do remember going to neighbors to help them read letters from my older brother😂. Our primary school teachers had NOT gone to university, teachers colleges where just 2 years after year 10. YET I have seen year 12 kids who cannot do the sort of math that we were doing in year 6. Like a simple quadratic equation. Or a word problem with simple linear equation in the end. I reiterate, our parents were illiterate for most part, so it was up to teachers to teach children, there was no help do homework at home cause basically after year 3, you were the genius in the family 😂😂.
I was in Mozambique in 2001 , up by the Rio save river. A bunch of young school kids came out of school and made a beeline for me ( a white guy), so quite a novelty. I had a look at their school books. I was really impressed with their written English and their arithmatic. .
@michaelholmes1805 and actually English might be their third language after their mother tongue/dialect and Portuguese. In Africa, they still teach the old school way with the teacher in charge, so kids pay attention...but also, education is the only out of poverty, so any kids learn as if their life depends on, cause it does.
Well said, exactly on the mark
the scandel is the feminisation of the education system wiyh the incompitents of there matriarchal posion
their
Well said Michael! I completely agree. I have just retired from working as a teacher aide (support teacher we are now called) in a primary school and can say the whole education system is based on no consequences. Including for the children. They will never learn that there are consequences for your actions! The maths teaching astounds me. The children are not taught their times tables - the basic knowledge required for further maths!?
So true the new maths in primary school as a parent I could not believe it was so confusing compared to what I was taught in 60s to 70s. And these kids would have to unlearn it before entering secondary.. However still some schools push time tables in my former exp as a teacher particularly the private schools and catholic ones!😮
Exactly. WHY are they not held accountable????
Based on my experience as a school trustee, the problem is the risk of hurt feelings if a teacher is held accountable. Total BS.
There is how government is ment to be and how it is .
I remember years ago when my daughter was a lot younger so I'm going back quite a few years now. We were in the car and we heard on the radio that the government of the day. And if I remember rightly I think it was the Helen Clark government .We're going to drop New Zealand learning standards of literacy so that others could keep pace with the rest. So take out of that what you will. And I remember this happened clearly I can even remember the intersection that I was on at the time. And I just looked at my young daughter in the car and thought. Well that's our schooling just gone down the gurgler
Just follow a primary teacher around for a week and you’ll see what the problem is. Probably too much non-teaching paperwork and repeated “training” in the latest fad, plus emails etc
The job is to teach, not socially engineer.
They get a lot more days off then we used to. Teacher only days are a joke that's what holidays are for! 😢
You noticd the lack of aussies EVER rushing to nz to emigrate?
At my age (about to retire) i believe you are 100% on to it Michael. I am also certain that it was never like this back when we did not use our version of the MMP System. I am certain life was far more constructive here in NZ in that Big Things got done & we could see it but for some reason with the Wholesale Cancellation of Common Sense i fear that we may never be able to get back to how great our country New Zealand was....
It all fell apart with tomorrow’s schools and removal of school Cert.and UE. Etc. standards were dropped,the continued erosion of science teaching,what happened to school cert chemistry,physics ,biology maths
Politicians want to dumb down young people so that they are too stupid to see through the lies and deception when it comes to their agendas when they achieve power.
NZCA was introduced to pass people so no one is a failure
Right on too simple for many though
there are some good teachers however there are teachers that are not fit for purpose... never been outside of a classroom... went to school, went to teachers college and then went back to school... zero life experience and fully institutionalised
Add to this the maorification of the education system (in all its aspects). For example, take a look at the hoops one needs to jump through to achieve the $5,000 Advanced Classroom Expertise Allowance, at the top of the basic primary teaching pay scale. It is racist in the extreme!
What the hell are you talking about
Politicians represent the people who voted them in. Sadly Michael your comments are from an age past when the Representatives actually believed that and had experience doing something else - now our House of Representatives is populated by people straight out of left wing, woke Universities who bring their ideologies with them, untested by what happens in the real world.
A few years ago my daughter came home with some maths as homework she couldn’t understand any of it and neither could I it was simple diversion but the way she was taught to do it made absolutely no sense the answers where completely wrong and no matter what way I did it it didn’t make any sense this was the new maths.then she brought her spelling book home with words to learn and the TEACHER had got the spelling wrong!! We circled the words with red pen and spelt it correctly and wrote a note asking what the hell was going on …..no reply.most of these teachers couldn’t pass the tests they hand out to the children too busy worrying about teaching kids about LBGQT rubbish
Division or diversion?
Simple division, and.... did the teacher write the words wrong or did the child copy incorrectly?
Good to hear about the Maths. I have been concerned for several years that my grandchildren do not know their basic times tables by the end of year 4-5, as we did a couple of generations ago, and it seems that this may be because teachers do not focus on them at school. If parents don’t follow up at home., they may never know the basics - a secondary maths teacher told me that many children don’t know them when they start secondary schools.
Do you not have time for you're grandkids you could spend half an hour to an hour when's you meet them
Rote learning became a dirty word.
They actively avoid teaching times tables now. Responses I've had when I ask why not generally fall back on "they have the internet and calculator in their pocket, so why bother?"
Unfortunately they have been useless for the past thirty years. All by design, it will take another thirty to come right if ever.
Utter nonsense. It's the fact kids are turning up to school and they don't know how to behave. Teachers spend half the time teaching them to be respectful and listen! They should be well able to do this before they arrive at school, the teachers job is not to parent but to educate!
Utter over- simplification . Don't just blame it on parenting when we've completely lost our way in politics, education, and personal standards in NZ . The liberal radicals have reeked havoc increasingly over our younger generations for too long , and now they're predominantly self entitled narcissistic ly trained activists ....fighting for their lost identity .
We in Australia are not far behind for exactly the same reason
Well said, Michael. There’s so much to say about this.
Who decided that all teachers needed to have a degree from a university to teach? Where was the proof that the three year long teachers certificate course from a Teachers Training College was an inadequate qualification to teach at primary school level? ( as a slight digression, the same question could be asked about hospital based training for nurses)
Teachers unions adamant refusal to recognise that there are teachers in the system who are failing the clients has protected these incompetents for decades. Just look at the squealing from teacher unions whenever anyone suggests pay based on merit or results.
For years now pupils have not been ranked on results but everyone pretends even the most intellectually challenged child has every chance of becoming a rocket scientist. Don’t want to hurt the little darlings feelings when in fact ranking might spur them on to do better - leapfrog Joe Blogs at report time. That never seems to apply on the sport field, so why aren’t the feelings of the torpids considered there too, if it is so important?
How much harm has integrating special needs pupils into the classroom done? The same applies to the persistently disruptive, bullying and poorly behaved. Teachers constantly give these pupils much more attention than those who just want to get on with the lesson and actually learn.
The curriculum is crowded with stuff of dubious value in the long run, and I include the time given to the Māori language in this. Concentrate on your three Rs like the countries at the top of the league tables do and leave the cultural stuff to the family.
Luxon is such a disappointment and Nicola Willis is no better. Unless they stop fence sitting, trying to please everyone, they will find the political niche they should be in has been occupied by ACT and NZFirst, in much the same way as labour has moved out of their niche to try and compete with the looney far left of the greens.
That serfdom Michael refers to sounds like the more complicated self-serving bureaucracy found in France
As a teacher , it often infuriated me how some teachers taught at one level. Bright children held back by under-achievers. One Canadian teacher stated she preferred the class to learn laterally. In my book it made school boring and lacked stimulus and incentive to challenge and extend learning. I doubt today's pupils could complete my standard 4 math or English tests v 1970! My grandkiddies have appalling handwriting, little semantic knowledge and would have trouble writing a factual report. School has been' dumbed down'.
Yes we now know what doesn't work in Education. Lets start afresh by recruiting some people from Finland or Ireland or some other place where they have people and systems that are effective.
lol… to move to the other side of the world and work for no money… oookaaay… lol.
My grand children sing maori song's and i asked them to sing that song in english and they could not, i said to them you are singing a song and you have no idea what you are singing,what a waste of learning when the children have no idea what the hell they are singing ,its time to stop maori language and start educating the children to read write and maths,scientist
Stop Maori language you say?
I think that's the crux of your complaint. Even if your grandchildren could sing the same song in English, I'd wager a bet that it would not change your views at all. I believe that your actual problem with it is purely because it's "Maori". I'm grateful that your grandchildren will never be subjected to being strapped or punished for speaking their own language on school grounds.
Surely that's a good thing.
Stop Maori language you say?
I think that's the crux of your complaint. Even if your grandchildren could sing the same song in English, I'd wager a bet that it would not change your views at all. I believe that your actual problem with it is purely because it's "Maori". I'm grateful that your grandchildren will never be subjected to being strapped or punished for speaking (or singing) their own language on school grounds.
Surely that's a good thing.
@@Rodtang-x5zmaorification results in mediocrity
@@Rodtang-x5z no what I was saying is sing In maori and sing in English so the children know what they are singing about, you can take from that what you want
@eileencoulter6263 There is one thing I agree with you on. While I find great delight in hearing non Maori speak or sing in Maori, I don't think it's fair on people if they feel they're having to learn a language they have no interest in learning. Forcing people to do so only breeds resentment. In my opinion, nobody should be forced to do anything they don't want to do.
Good comment mate
My kids local school is what would be deemed a decide 10- affluent suburb, well resourced school etc. I can assure you that makes no lick of difference when the principle and many of the teachers are woefully inadequate. Parents ask and push and insist and question, and we are ignored, gaslite, pushed back on. My son is academically strong and wasn't given any attention, and the confused looks I got from his teacher and associate principle when I asked for him to be challenged was startling. Meanwhile his good friend in the same class with challenging learning needs due to autism was also woefully unsupported- lack of teaching plans, a teacher and school making excuses I could go on and on. Another friends kid who is maybe an average student but has a gift in art... also ignored and struggling. Most of the class goes to number works as a result. In other words the school isn't doing right by any of the kids- not the academic kids, not the creative kids, not the truly vulnerable kids. It's shocking and unacceptable. We are sensing my son to private school because we have all but given up, something I'd rather not do, money I'd rather not spend, but here we are.
I think private school is worth the money, particularly for boys . It is more customised and the uniqueness of the child, their strengths & weaknesses recognised . Public school too easy to fall through the gaps .
That’s only my opinion , having experienced both with my children
Here are corrections and a query for your comment. It's principal not principle, gaslight not gaslite and sending not sensing; and what exactly are 'number works'?
State school class sizes, in mainstream subjects, do not realistically always allow for the individualised educational delivery that you would like. Optional subjects often run as combined multilevel classes which are not easy to manage. Teacher burnout can sometimes be attributed to trying to meet those expectations, but lacking the time and resourcing to do so. Private schools have smaller class sizes and teachers have more time to attend to individual needs so it's not a fair comparison. However your children may have a better chance of being catered for there. Sadly like with most services education can be reliant on how much you are prepared to pay.
Agreed
I used to flat with teachers once upon a time. They could not even add simple fractions. 1/4 + 1/2 was beyond them - So I got more cake. Since then the rot would be even worse -A quick look at the attendees of teaching training college says it all. I had friends from Hungary who were 3 years head of locals at 15 years old
As an Austrian couple once stated it - of the average person - the "sean people" - the "shawn people" - of or pertaining to sheep
It takes parents and grandparents to teach kids the basics these days before they start school. I taught my children to know the alphabet read basic words how to write their name, parents ph number and the concept of addition and subtraction, multiplication, it was up to the schools to pick up on that and take it further...I was told not to teach them too much as they would get disinterested in the classroom while other kids caught up. As a result they were mostly a year ahead of their starting class group. It's time well invested if you help your child. I am now helping my grand child with homework and I have to say I'm impressed with the reading program and math (junior level) it is challenging him which is good, we have a lot of fun.
WE need to no exactly whats going on in the class rooms ..we need CCTV cameras installed in all class rooms that will allow parents to access any time and keep in check what is or is not being taught .. and stop the branwash that gos on right now ..
You could teach you're kids at home to stop being lazy it's not only teachers job to educate it's parents job aswell
Excellent idea. Not only would parents see how teachers teach, they'd also see how their perfect little darlings behave. Some parents would be in for a huge shock.
Doesn’t matter who is in government or minister of education teachers will never reach consensus on anything put forward so long as they have the backbencher salary chip on their shoulders.
Teachers should have to set NCEA exams every year as well as the students
Rangiora High school cost me 14 thousand a year ( 3 years ) for my son ,,, what a waste of money that was ,,They didn't even do a basic comprehension level check ( basic 101 ) and the assistant spent half the time on her cell phone
Indeed, it's a scandal in that the teachers unions have fought performance assessments for decades. Ask a teacher and they will tell you - they cannot be measured, unlike of course nearly all other professions.
Since over half of the total union membership in NZ are teachers and most of the rest are PSA members, it's hardly surprising that their little hegemony has never been broken.
Teachers need to do a test when applying for jobs in schools
It’s only going to get worse
the university system is also in rapid decline.
Teachers have to teach what they are told to teach. So the source of the problem is the person/people telling them what to teach. Essentially this comes from unelected bureaucrats and consultants in the Ministry of Education.
For example, teachers don't just "decide" to not teach times tables. They were literally told not to by the Ministry, aided by weak minded principals
The message is getting around nice to hear someone who's onto it say the message is being sent takes a while to catch up on the message now...10years? Wonder how much distraction caused by smartphones have had on all of us...
Teachers can only do so much, it's up to parents to help their kids I sit down with my son 1 hour a day make sure he does his homework and help him with anything he dosent understand from his lessons
My wife’s a kindergarten teacher 3 years training with practice now replaced with A one year part time degree, ministry of education used to check on educational achievement now more interested in paperwork go figure
It's a mess. So many teachers try their best, but even the top quality ones get hamstrung by policy. Nobody in parliament would put up with the working conditions for the salary. It's a sad truth that a lot of teachers are on antidepressants and anti-anxiety medications, chain smoke/vape and/or drink.
The for-profit training centres aren't exactly keeping the idiots out either. Fancy now having to PASS HIGHSCHOOL MATHS to be a teacher? Most of them don't understand science either, but that tends to get ignored. It used to be considered the third leg of the stool, alongside english and maths. Now... it's just sad. So many kids just give up in Year 9 because everything is too difficult for them when the "big jump" to prepare them for NCEA has to happen.
Stop using teachers as nurturers, teachers are educators.
And you can't bring an apple for your teacher because they are so expensive.
The lack of caning, strapping and sitting in the corner with a dunce cap on is a good thing.
I think Michael needs a strong cup of tea and a lie down.
If you carry the world on your shoulders, nobody will want to carry you.
Great rants from a great mind and all sad but true!
1 +1 =3
For the past thirty years, if you have dared to criticise teachers and teaching, you will have immediately been on the receiving end of counter-criticsm: you are being negative;;you are being elitist or something;; you are overlooking the difficulties faced by all teachers who are so weighed down that they cannot do their jobs.
Plenty more excuses where those came from. And, go back into news archives and check the slipperiness of the official comments upon the release of each PISA report. There are none so blind as those who WILL NOT see.
And schools which do not allow parents into the classrooms unless it’s an open day and then you are treated to a lecture from the kids on the treaty of waitangi.
Ok, so the maths attainment levels are bad. Quick, panic, act, allay the immediate concerns. What about the other outcomes?
What about English, History, Science, Chem, Physics, Bio, Economics?
At what point does the public get a look in to the more likely problem, that we have systemic dysfunction in education?
How does the responsible minister propose to fix polytechs when there's uncertain data about the intake quals?
Atleast students will be able to identify their pronouns when they leave school😂
Wow are they Maori? Sounds like a gravy train.
Toomuch bullshit on teachers not enough on the kids
Uni qually teachers, it's about activism and social construct ideology and not teaching the basics, that's the thing isn't it. Get rid of the woke in the Min of Ed and the Uni's and get into the maths, the reading and writing and commonsense teaching and learning.
Hi Michael. Your antipathy to teachers generally is well-known, but you ask some good questions. Many teachers,especially those entering the middle management level (which is vast and expanding) over the last twenty years are “left” in their ideology. But the problem is their sense of themselves as “right”. Righteous, zealous, and barely pragmatic. The problem started on the other side of the ledger in 1989 with the Tomorrow’s Schools Picot report, which while intended to bring centrist ideology under scrutiny, ironically led to smaller decentralised targets for the ideologues to gain a foothold. While it sought to return choice to parents and the community, it relied on the managerial class to man it, with the attendant opportunity for ideological capture. But the robustness of the actual education system at grassroots teaching level took successive changes to be undermined/transformed (depending on your viewpoint); the introduction of NCEA, the new “curriculum” of developmental levels rather than capability hurdles from 2000, the appearance of social media and cellphones as determinants in children and parents lives, the growing confusion in roles between education/teachers and social responsibilities and welfare (parental abdication equally as culpable), the devaluing socially and economically of teaching as a profession, and the subtle change from “getting an education” to having one “delivered to the client”; these all have led to where we find ourselves. Perhaps a Reign of Terror starting at the top might give impetus to a change, but ultimately we need a plan that will revive the value of education and its practitioners. Without some leadership and focused goals we’ll just keep chopping heads until it’s our own turn for the guillotine (as a student of history I’m sure you will forgive the French Revolution analogy). Regardless of your general assumption about the quality of teachers, there are some good ones out there… the problem being that they hail largely from a time when their experience was based on a successful system, not the current one. That generation of IP is in the process of retiring over the next 5-10 years (me, humbly, included) and the percentage of worthy successors is small. Is there an answer or example to follow? Well, you could look at Finland. Also a cot case in education in the mid 70s, but now leading the world and the closest of the leaders to our social/political character. I would urge us to support positive change rather than only purge generally.
You are blaming professional teachers who are contantly blindsided by meddling and incompetent politician
Teaching is a totally useless career full stop!
NZ needs e learning in schools
Dog whistling...who and what determines 'useless'? You? On the spectrum of international journalists from Andrew Marr, Andrew Neil downward, you are an uninformed voice in the pub.
Sound like you had the 'benefit' of a NZ education. Kids in NZ are generally as thick as those from the US. Neither country likes the reality being voiced. Stupid people are easier to manage than smart ones. You only have to see how many dummies rolled up their sleeves for the 'safe and effective' in their shoulders over the past 4 years. Some repeat the process to this day.
They need to get back to the black board not given a piece of paper, no tech book spelling and math and English. Not computer. They should be technician of DIY New Zealand
I started to learn how to teach at a local university in Wellington, I had to quit t training at this university. I went to the UK to be trained as a teacher, I got REAL teacher training there and have been offered to teach in the UK by the DfE. I hope things work out in NZ, I want to return here to teach but until things change, I am happy training in maths and science to other students in other countries.