I still like D2, I think with all the newer super steels available now, D2 has dropped in class in the eyes of a lot of knife collectors and steel nerds, but it is definitely a great tool steel! I really enjoy your videos Jef! Thanks for putting them out for us!
I still love 154cm. Wanna talk about a steel that has been dropped in class. Prime example. I could do without all the boutique stuff, and would be happy if they stuck with one decent steel, and learned how to heat treat it properly/consistently.
@@Jef That's right on, way too much emphasis is put on steel nowadays and not enough emphasis on learning how to heat treat 1 or 2 as well as possible. Steels that have been around for a while are completely adequate, 154cm for example. The never ending quest for the ultimate steel is more of a symptom of most people's inability to sharpen their knife than anything else IMO.
You are one crazy man. 15k edge on a D2 steel. Looking at how the knife was used a 320 grit finish would be just fine but we are not normal people - we like our hoby.
Mine as well. I had no clue the edge would get that nice. I didn't do anything special, or make any extra attempts to hold consistency. Funny how things just work out occasionally.
@@Jef I'm guessing the little extra refinement the 8k & 15K added helped lower the numbers, would be interesting if in some future sharpenings you used the same combo up to 15k. I bet with other steels you'd see even lower averages overall.
Always really enjoy your videos Jef! Sorry to hear you’ve been uninspired but I feel safe speaking for everyone in that we really enjoy your content. Have a great week man
Thanks for checking it out. My videos tend to be long, but recently I have been trying to trim much of the fat. I will be posting a give away soon if you are into sharpening, so keep an eye out.
Right on. Paddy's kindness needs to be rewarded. He is such a genuinely nice soul. Thanks for droppin in. I will be posting a give away soon if you are into sharpening, so keep an eye out for that video.
Congratulations on 2k! You deserve so many more subscribers lol. Seems sharpening channels sit in a weird limbo between the collectors and testers. Been having a lot of those conversations like you had about coarse stones on reddit lately.. damn you Ryky Tran! 😂 I had the tippy tip of my maxamet magically disappear recently, it’s why I gave it that second sharpening. Anyway I tried elevating the angle more and it brought back the needle point I’ve been trying to get on my other knives, mystery solved. I’ve noticed with CRoX stropping compounds you get a more consistent polish do to the stiction. Whereas with diamond and cbn you absolutely have to go further than what I have to get a perfect mirror lol. Man.. you dropped some bombs of knowledge in this video and what an edge! Really enjoyed it :)
Ehh I can't say my knowledge is truth. Just my own imaginings. Take em with a grain of salt, and test everything yourself. Results matter :p Just like your epiphany with cbn. I still haven't had mine. I do keep trying though
Right on. It was a pleasure seeing Paddy so kindly send you my way. I understand sharpening isn't everyone's niche, however. I do try to toss in a video, here and there, showing off and discussing, new knife purchases. :) Cheers!
Thanks for checking it out. Paddy is a wonderful human, who deserves our love. Thanks for checking it out. I will be posting a give away soon if you are into sharpening, so keep an eye out.
I was not aware of that. I quit watching his channel a long time ago. Anything under 200 is really sharp. Hell 450-350 is what you can normally find on most factory edge. Many of which can push cut newsprint, which is pretty darn sharp. So even at that level, it is nothing to scoff at. Not everyone can get double digits, and some of the crazy numbers that have been thrown out there, in the single digits, aren't really practical for use. Gotta keep things in perspective, and not put everything into those tests. They can be deceiving, as I have tried to emphasize many times.
Ryky seems like a nice guy but I don't listen to anything he has to say anymore about sharpening, some of the things he does and says drives me crazy. He probably can't reach those numbers because he seems to value how a stone feels to its actual ability to create truly sharp edges. The guy thinks the Cerax 320 is a great stone for god's sake.
@@AnarchAngel1 jupp the one thing that drives me totally nuts is he means thinning isnt necesarry at all... He says no you can easily sharpen away 3-4 mm up a blade and dokt feel a change thats insane the edge easily dobbels and trippels in width... He has never and i mean never felt what a good sharpend and scary thin laser of a blade is.. I always say to people on my channel thin the blade until it micro chips or rolls or get wavy etc at the edge then back it up by a few degrees and its perfect
I found when I reprofile a knife on a higher grit stone, I tend to apply more pressure. More pressure is more stress. More stress is more fatigue. Does it happen to everyone? Every steel? Every stone? I don't know. I don't even know if that actually occurs, it is just what I imagine, after I have done it myself. Take it for what it is worth, which is anecdotal. Perhaps try it yourself, and let me know. I would love to hear your thoughts on it!
@@Jef your finding is right. I've recently watch Cliffs video regarding on ultra light grinding vs a quick sharpening on spyderco fine ceramic rod. pressure can fatigue the steels. th-cam.com/video/BfbX7VXBZBs/w-d-xo.html
Exactly. I aim to get the knife sharp with minimal number of passes and with minimal amount of pressure. Sounds contradictory but the key is the use of multiple grit.
you are honest and you’re a good man I learned a lot from you but I would love to see the angles of your elbows Because all we see is your wrist and your hands if I get down pack how your elbows are I can sharpen just like you
I’ve mentioned this before, but my counter top set up does not allow enough room for me to show my elbows. What you see is the best i can manage at this time
Hi Jef I thanks for the great videos. I noticed you didn't use the 220 or the 1500. Is there a specific reason for that? I’m looking to get one of each in both of these ranges (120/220/320) (1000/1500/2000). I sharpen mostly high carbon (1095) steel blades as well as some outdoors tools like machetes and occasionally run into modern steels. Trying to buy a three stone set up from coarse medium to fine and have decided to end the upper end at 5000 just trying to figure out the two in between. Would appreciate your input as someone who's had much more experience sharpening a variety of steels than myself.
The 1500 is superfulous in this as it is so close to the 1 and 2k. It wouldn't really benefit the process throwing it in the mix. I COULD have, but honestly, I just forgot about it :p I don't own the 220. I seen how friable it is from other videos, so never purchased one. I like the 120 just fine, and the 320 cleans it up nicely.
If you want my recommendation on a 3 stone set up, with Shapton Pro, 320, 1k, and 5k. If you wanna add a little more flavor, the 2k would also help between the 1k and 5k. Those 3 stones were my first purchases, and they have an excellent synergy. You may have to spend a little more time on the 5k to clean up the 1k scratches, but it can be done. That is where the 2k can help. Good luck in your search!
I remember reading somewhere that the 220 is formulated for PM(powdered metallurgy stainless) steels and the 320 is formulated for carbon steels. Same goes for the medium stones, the 1k was formulated for stainless, wear resistant steels and the 1500 was designed for carbon steels with the 2k being for both. I personally have found that they all work well no matter the steel but I have both the 220 and the 1500 and they are good stones. 220 is very sensitive to pressure and is quite friable, although not much more than the 320 in my experience. The 1500 is a very nice stone that feels much more similar to the 2k than the 1k, it's hard and dense like all shaptons above 320 and cuts well. It gives nice toothy edges when you aren't trying to take the edge any further. In your case I would recommend 320/1500/5k. The 1k shapton pro is a very aggressive 1k that is probably closer to a 700 or something in performance IME. If you need anything coarser than the 320 I would just use a diamond stone, I don't have the 120 pro so I can't say much about it.
Jef Jewell I find M4 really nice to sharpen. A bit more wear resistant than a lot of steels of course, but the venev diamond water stones made quick work of it. M4 takes a screaming edge also. I need one of those Bess machines to measure my edges! Ironically I recorded a video for my jdavis channel sharpening the mini grip and decided not to post it. Then yours popped up! This is a nice little knife to sharpen.
@@johnd9357 Ahh yes, those Venev stones are excellent. Such a nice departure from diamond plates. I keep my tiny pocket sized versions with me, everywhere i go. Have you seen the vitrified plates practical sharpening has? I just finished up with them, although he asked me not to record them. They are floating around the US currently, making rounds. Perhaps contact him and see if he would be willing to allow you to try them out.
@@Jef Man, I have a Spyderco Manix 2 in CPM-M4 and it's far more difficult than any D2 I've come across, it's very stubborn stuff. I would imagine heat treat has more to do with that than anything, I'm not sure what hardness Spyderco brings it to. Diamonds will make short work of it but traditional water stones can have a very difficult time with it. The Kohetsu 2k from CKTG cuts it very well for a water stone I've found. Moved from that to a Shapton 5k and it felt like it was just skating across the stone, steels like that are reaching the effective limit of Shapton Pros IME.
There really is no 'best', however, the soap in water helps break the surface tension. That allows the water to spread across the entire plate and sit flush, instead of poolin up in areas. I do find it tends to help in the overall process of keeping water where I am sharpening, as opposed to chasing it around. I tend to just use whatever is handy. Oil, water, or my oil/soap/water concoction I got from Caleb McCullough.
I don't believe I own a single D2 Benchmade knife. I can't say honestly, how they hold up. Sharpening, they aren't too terrible, as long as you use the appropriate abrasive to get things set up.
I have a rat 2 in d2 as well as a crkt pilar and they hold great edges. My rat 2 is at 10° per side and doesn't roll so I'd say its treatment was pretty good. I would think benchmade would exceed them but who knows lol
@@-trmxzer0-235 I have the Rat 1 and it's decent D2. Mine chipped out a little bit with the factory edge so I put a nice low angle convex on it and it's been great... I have a real love/hate relationship with D2. It has good wear resistance but low toughness. Some people say you can't get a really fine edge with D2 but they're wrong, it just tends to take a toothy edge because of a few different reasons. It's an ingot steel high in carbides so depending on the heat treat and what not it can form large carbide aggregates(I read somewhere they're commonly over 60 microns I think) in the steel matrix that can get pulled off the edge by the stone. I find Shapton Pros give me the best edges with D2.
@@AnarchAngel1 I've always read its notoriously hard to heat treat properly that's why its either hit or miss on production knives. I guess I've been lucky so far with my examples of D2 steel. Mine are relatively simple to maintain a nice level of sharpness with a plenty of bite using just DMT coarse/fine diamond plates and a 4 micron diamond strop.
So your 15k is a Shapton Pro? I'm assuming it's the same stone also marketed as a 12k? I have the "12k" Shapton and it looks like the same stone. It took me quite a while to figure out the whole "scratchier" finish of that stone vs the 8k lol. For a while I was convinced the 8k was actually finer and I got a lemon of a 12k until I "hypothesized" the same thing about old scratches simply becoming more visible 😅 I do find the 12k to be a tad softer than the 8k...what are your thoughts there?
Yes this is labeled as a 12k in some areas and 15k in others. Why they do that, I have no idea. I agree, it feels softer, but it is because the surface texture seems to be more porous. It's odd how the brighter it polishes, the more your deeper scratches stand out.
low grit is much better and faster for shaping the edge, the rest is refining the scratch pattern and finding your preference either push cut or slicing aggression.
I have a cheapish water stone which I soaked overnight in a bath of mineral oil then used and still use as an oil stone (. Works just fine). PS. I now use oil only on everything. Water & water stones & diamonds dry my skin out badly, min oil rehydrates my skin.
Jeff says Shapton's site says oil can be used so I was totally wrong there. Wouldn't do it to a Chosera though...just looking at those things the wrong way will crack them.
Well, I guess it might be controversial but I was wondering your opinion on using that shapton pro 120 vs say atoma 140, lower grit sones of different types, for high vanadium carbide steels and when you plan on then going to progressively higher grit stones after that.
Shapton pro bs atoma? I’d take shapton all day everyday over it. Faster and leaves a better scratch pattern. For high vanadium steels i prefer to use venev diamond or gritomatics silicone carbide stones
@@Jef So in your opinion the Shapton 120 is faster than the Atoma 140? The 120 and the 30k are the only Shaptons I don't own and honestly if you think it's faster than the Atoma I kind of wanna give it a whirl and keep my Atoma on flattening duty. I really don't enjoy using it, but I'm sharpening semi-proffesionally at the moment and I kinda have to...a lot 😆 I get a lot of conflicting opinions when I ask people about the 120 ( 220 as well for that matter ). Some people complain it's way too friable and wears too quickly but I'm not sure what people expect from such a coarse stone. I used to feel the same about the 220 but I've made friends with that stone
Well keep in mind my atoma plate is pretty worn. So, yes, it is much faster imo. Maybe a new atoma would change my mind, but there it is. When dealing with large bevels, or thinning, the Shapton is leaps and bounds faster. Diamond plates dont do well in those scenarios. The 120 is friable, esp when dealing with v bevels. It comes into its own, thinning, or large bevels. As long as you take care of it, it shouldn’t wear too fast. As with all things, it will depend on use, of course. It is hard to say bc i change my opinion each time i use one or the other, but i think the shapton 120 is my favorite coarse grit. The norton coarse crystolon fights for that spot as well.
Slightly convex edge is usually what I actually shoot for with D2. It can be a little chippy and doesn't have the greatest edge stability if you don't strengthen the edge with a convex or at least a pretty significant microbevel in my experience
Slowly healing. Getting older and breaking bones are not good company. I'll be making a video in the next week or so. Other than that, just waiting to see what happens with this crazy virus stuff. How about you and yours? Everyone safe and healthy?
It's all good here, @@Jef. Thank you for asking. I look forward to seeing your next video. When you're ready. It's nice to hear from you, and get all healed up soon. Things will be back to normal, before we know it. 👍🍺🔪🍀🕟😎
At the moment i have a shapton pro 1500 and 5000. I want to go for a 3 stone lineup with the shapton 320 but i'm afraid the leap between 320 and 1500 is too big. I'm considering a naniwa 600 instead. What would you do?
I'm not a fan of Naniwa due to the cracking issues I have had with them. The Naniwa Pro 400, is a phenomenal stone, however. If you are leaning that direction, The 1500 should be able to remove the Naniwa Pro 400 scratches, though it may take a little longer, than just a 1k. Not terribly so, but maybe a few extra minutes per side. The 600 Is a decent enough stone, but the 400 is where it's at. Such a good one.
@@brentvandeputte4538 Absolutely, but if I am to be honest, the Naniwa Pro 400, is hands down, the best stone in that grit range. Coarser than you would think, and produces a finish much finer than the grit would lead you to believe. Be careful, as that is a double edged sword. It is so quick, you may over sharpen, and not realize it :)
The 120 shapton doesn’t leave as deep scratches as diamond, however, it cuts the steel faster. There are only a handful of stones that are faster than the shapton 120.
If I can make a recommendation, try the double thick Shapton Glass 500 followed by the Pro 1.5k or 2k followed by the 5k or 8k. This progression has worked very well for me. The 500 glass cuts pretty much just as fast as the Pro 320 and leaves a more refined scratch pattern. Try it...you won't be disappointed 😉
You mentioned a water/oil mixture I'm one of your videos. Can you point me to your video that explains it s little better? I enjoy your videos and information.
That man has a heart of gold. Thanks for dropping in. I mostly go sharpening videos, but if you check my channel, I do have some videos discussing knives I own. Along with a few others that were sent to me to get an opinion on. Cheers!
It's an excellent finisher. The polish is really nice. Not the best stone to remove a burr, but if the edge is fairly cleaned up before hand, it can usually do the rest. I use it often, as a touch up stone. In terms of grit rating, I think it falls around the 3-4k mark. At least that seems to be where mine lands.
Im so tired of people saying their starter stone is 800 to 1000..and using anything 120 300 range is only for reprofiling. And dont use it for inital sharpening. Like do they not understand the idea of grinding and or sanding u dont polish wood at 8k instandly u start coars and work up. Oh well
I do edge trailing only on shapton pros 5k and above. I also generally only use one of each stone type, 1 course/grinder (up to 320 in SP), 1 sharpener (1-2k in SP) and 1 finisher/polisher (5k, 8k, 12k in SP) unless like you I just want to play around with stuff. I'm a big fan of that 12k. It's very very similar to my 10K chosera which was much more expensive. They are obviously different, but about as close as 2 different stones can be.
I don’t like edge trailing. It creates a burr that can be very stubborn to remove. I know others use it for deburring, but i always found it created one 🤷♂️
@@Jef You've also got excellent control over your technique. For most mere mortals it's not hard to end up with a more polished but less keen edge on glassy finishing stones like the SP 5K and above if you're not careful with edge leading. As far as burr is concerned, you are obviously correct however I haven't found it to be an issue when it comes to such fine grit stones. If a burr is generated, say by focusing on one side too much, it's imperceptibly small and gets minimized by the way some people do it, which is generally alternating strokes at this stage. This is usually where I lose a stubborn burr when I'm starting the alternating edge trailing stokes on a finisher. For sure on anything lower grit than finishing stones, yeah it's a fast one way ticket to giant burr city.
![[2] Search for the ULTIMATE WATER STONE - [Kuromaku Blue/Black 320]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/F2bSNLuJZKc/mqdefault.jpg)
I still like D2, I think with all the newer super steels available now, D2 has dropped in class in the eyes of a lot of knife collectors and steel nerds, but it is definitely a great tool steel! I really enjoy your videos Jef! Thanks for putting them out for us!
I still love 154cm. Wanna talk about a steel that has been dropped in class. Prime example. I could do without all the boutique stuff, and would be happy if they stuck with one decent steel, and learned how to heat treat it properly/consistently.
@@Jef That's right on, way too much emphasis is put on steel nowadays and not enough emphasis on learning how to heat treat 1 or 2 as well as possible. Steels that have been around for a while are completely adequate, 154cm for example. The never ending quest for the ultimate steel is more of a symptom of most people's inability to sharpen their knife than anything else IMO.
You are one crazy man. 15k edge on a D2 steel. Looking at how the knife was used a 320 grit finish would be just fine but we are not normal people - we like our hoby.
Indeed. I got carried away :p
Awesome average you got on the tester, really good numbers. Gotta love the shapton stones, my favorites! 👍
Yes and Burrfection strugles to get chef knives under 100 😂😂🤣🤣
Mine as well. I had no clue the edge would get that nice. I didn't do anything special, or make any extra attempts to hold consistency. Funny how things just work out occasionally.
@@Jef jupp sometimes the planets align and the edge gets deburred towards true north while one prays to the knife gods hehe
@@Jef I'm guessing the little extra refinement the 8k & 15K added helped lower the numbers, would be interesting if in some future sharpenings you used the same combo up to 15k. I bet with other steels you'd see even lower averages overall.
@@NORTHWESTKNIFEGUY I’ve done that before with the opposite happening but it'd be interesting to test nonetheless. 👌
Always really enjoy your videos Jef! Sorry to hear you’ve been uninspired but I feel safe speaking for everyone in that we really enjoy your content. Have a great week man
Thank you very much! Its just laziness. Going a month without recording, and the holidays, have put me in that sort of mood. I'm sure it will pass :p
That was a great sharpening video!!! PPP sent me over, thanks for the content!!!
Thanks for checking it out. My videos tend to be long, but recently I have been trying to trim much of the fat. I will be posting a give away soon if you are into sharpening, so keep an eye out.
Paddy sent me over ,I can't understand why I haven't done it before .great video .ATB Dave
Right on. Paddy's kindness needs to be rewarded. He is such a genuinely nice soul. Thanks for droppin in. I will be posting a give away soon if you are into sharpening, so keep an eye out for that video.
Congratulations on 2k! You deserve so many more subscribers lol. Seems sharpening channels sit in a weird limbo between the collectors and testers. Been having a lot of those conversations like you had about coarse stones on reddit lately.. damn you Ryky Tran! 😂 I had the tippy tip of my maxamet magically disappear recently, it’s why I gave it that second sharpening. Anyway I tried elevating the angle more and it brought back the needle point I’ve been trying to get on my other knives, mystery solved. I’ve noticed with CRoX stropping compounds you get a more consistent polish do to the stiction. Whereas with diamond and cbn you absolutely have to go further than what I have to get a perfect mirror lol. Man.. you dropped some bombs of knowledge in this video and what an edge! Really enjoyed it :)
Ehh I can't say my knowledge is truth. Just my own imaginings. Take em with a grain of salt, and test everything yourself. Results matter :p Just like your epiphany with cbn. I still haven't had mine. I do keep trying though
Congrats on 2K! Good to see you practicing on Mini Grips hahaha. More coming your way. 🤷♂️
Thanks Jt!
Another great video - happy new year from Kjkblade
Happy new year! Hope you had a good holiday season!
Paddy sent me great channel!! subbed and notified!
Right on. It was a pleasure seeing Paddy so kindly send you my way. I understand sharpening isn't everyone's niche, however. I do try to toss in a video, here and there, showing off and discussing, new knife purchases. :) Cheers!
Glad patty sent me over, interesting video ,thanks
Thanks for checking it out. Paddy is a wonderful human, who deserves our love. Thanks for checking it out. I will be posting a give away soon if you are into sharpening, so keep an eye out.
Then fun thing here is Burrfection strugles to get under 100 on the bess test with kitchen knives hehe you are a very accomplished good sharpener mate
I was not aware of that. I quit watching his channel a long time ago. Anything under 200 is really sharp. Hell 450-350 is what you can normally find on most factory edge. Many of which can push cut newsprint, which is pretty darn sharp. So even at that level, it is nothing to scoff at. Not everyone can get double digits, and some of the crazy numbers that have been thrown out there, in the single digits, aren't really practical for use. Gotta keep things in perspective, and not put everything into those tests. They can be deceiving, as I have tried to emphasize many times.
@@Jef absoluttely just yeah not a fan of Burrfection hehe
@@knifesharpeningnorway 😜
Ryky seems like a nice guy but I don't listen to anything he has to say anymore about sharpening, some of the things he does and says drives me crazy. He probably can't reach those numbers because he seems to value how a stone feels to its actual ability to create truly sharp edges. The guy thinks the Cerax 320 is a great stone for god's sake.
@@AnarchAngel1 jupp the one thing that drives me totally nuts is he means thinning isnt necesarry at all... He says no you can easily sharpen away 3-4 mm up a blade and dokt feel a change thats insane the edge easily dobbels and trippels in width...
He has never and i mean never felt what a good sharpend and scary thin laser of a blade is..
I always say to people on my channel thin the blade until it micro chips or rolls or get wavy etc at the edge then back it up by a few degrees and its perfect
I don’t know that you would fatigue the steel on a higher grit stone, but you would certainly wear out a stone quicker with more passes!
I found when I reprofile a knife on a higher grit stone, I tend to apply more pressure. More pressure is more stress. More stress is more fatigue. Does it happen to everyone? Every steel? Every stone? I don't know. I don't even know if that actually occurs, it is just what I imagine, after I have done it myself. Take it for what it is worth, which is anecdotal. Perhaps try it yourself, and let me know. I would love to hear your thoughts on it!
@@Jef your finding is right. I've recently watch Cliffs video regarding on ultra light grinding vs a quick sharpening on spyderco fine ceramic rod. pressure can fatigue the steels.
th-cam.com/video/BfbX7VXBZBs/w-d-xo.html
Exactly. I aim to get the knife sharp with minimal number of passes and with minimal amount of pressure. Sounds contradictory but the key is the use of multiple grit.
Hey Jef, Paddy sent me over, looking forward to your channel
cheers
Thanks for checking it out. Paddy is good people. Heart of gold.
@@Jef Thats what he said about you; it's good to know there are still good people in this wicked world
Enjoyed it!~ Paddy sent me. I'm subbed!
Paddy's the best! Thanks for droppin in. I have a give away coming soon, so keep your eyes peeled for that video if you are into sharpening :)
Ready for another three year's worth of abuse. :)
Awesome job.
Thanks for the upload.
Thanks for checking it out
Paddy sent me, thanks for the content....
Thanks for checking it out! Paddy's the best!
you are honest and you’re a good man I learned a lot from you but I would love to see the angles of your elbows Because all we see is your wrist and your hands if I get down pack how your elbows are I can sharpen just like you
I’ve mentioned this before, but my counter top set up does not allow enough room for me to show my elbows. What you see is the best i can manage at this time
Hi Jef I thanks for the great videos. I noticed you didn't use the 220 or the 1500. Is there a specific reason for that? I’m looking to get one of each in both of these ranges (120/220/320) (1000/1500/2000). I sharpen mostly high carbon (1095) steel blades as well as some outdoors tools like machetes and occasionally run into modern steels. Trying to buy a three stone set up from coarse medium to fine and have decided to end the upper end at 5000 just trying to figure out the two in between. Would appreciate your input as someone who's had much more experience sharpening a variety of steels than myself.
The 1500 is superfulous in this as it is so close to the 1 and 2k. It wouldn't really benefit the process throwing it in the mix. I COULD have, but honestly, I just forgot about it :p
I don't own the 220. I seen how friable it is from other videos, so never purchased one. I like the 120 just fine, and the 320 cleans it up nicely.
If you want my recommendation on a 3 stone set up, with Shapton Pro, 320, 1k, and 5k. If you wanna add a little more flavor, the 2k would also help between the 1k and 5k. Those 3 stones were my first purchases, and they have an excellent synergy. You may have to spend a little more time on the 5k to clean up the 1k scratches, but it can be done. That is where the 2k can help. Good luck in your search!
I remember reading somewhere that the 220 is formulated for PM(powdered metallurgy stainless) steels and the 320 is formulated for carbon steels. Same goes for the medium stones, the 1k was formulated for stainless, wear resistant steels and the 1500 was designed for carbon steels with the 2k being for both. I personally have found that they all work well no matter the steel but I have both the 220 and the 1500 and they are good stones. 220 is very sensitive to pressure and is quite friable, although not much more than the 320 in my experience. The 1500 is a very nice stone that feels much more similar to the 2k than the 1k, it's hard and dense like all shaptons above 320 and cuts well. It gives nice toothy edges when you aren't trying to take the edge any further. In your case I would recommend 320/1500/5k. The 1k shapton pro is a very aggressive 1k that is probably closer to a 700 or something in performance IME. If you need anything coarser than the 320 I would just use a diamond stone, I don't have the 120 pro so I can't say much about it.
Hwy jeff those looks like light strop scratches???? Am I way off
Some perhaps, but most are stone scratches.
@@Jef 🙏
How timely. I just sharpened a mini grip in M4 today. Used venev stones. Great job!
Right on. How did you find m4 to sharpen? It reminds me a bit of D2
Jef Jewell I find M4 really nice to sharpen. A bit more wear resistant than a lot of steels of course, but the venev diamond water stones made quick work of it. M4 takes a screaming edge also. I need one of those Bess machines to measure my edges! Ironically I recorded a video for my jdavis channel sharpening the mini grip and decided not to post it. Then yours popped up! This is a nice little knife to sharpen.
@@johnd9357 Ahh yes, those Venev stones are excellent. Such a nice departure from diamond plates. I keep my tiny pocket sized versions with me, everywhere i go. Have you seen the vitrified plates practical sharpening has? I just finished up with them, although he asked me not to record them. They are floating around the US currently, making rounds. Perhaps contact him and see if he would be willing to allow you to try them out.
@@Jef Man, I have a Spyderco Manix 2 in CPM-M4 and it's far more difficult than any D2 I've come across, it's very stubborn stuff. I would imagine heat treat has more to do with that than anything, I'm not sure what hardness Spyderco brings it to. Diamonds will make short work of it but traditional water stones can have a very difficult time with it. The Kohetsu 2k from CKTG cuts it very well for a water stone I've found. Moved from that to a Shapton 5k and it felt like it was just skating across the stone, steels like that are reaching the effective limit of Shapton Pros IME.
Thank you for the tips. Is soapy water the best thing to use on diamond stones?
There really is no 'best', however, the soap in water helps break the surface tension. That allows the water to spread across the entire plate and sit flush, instead of poolin up in areas. I do find it tends to help in the overall process of keeping water where I am sharpening, as opposed to chasing it around. I tend to just use whatever is handy. Oil, water, or my oil/soap/water concoction I got from Caleb McCullough.
@@Jef thank you
I've always been curious about benchmades d2. I've got 154cm and s30v by them and they seem heat treated really well.
I don't believe I own a single D2 Benchmade knife. I can't say honestly, how they hold up. Sharpening, they aren't too terrible, as long as you use the appropriate abrasive to get things set up.
I have a rat 2 in d2 as well as a crkt pilar and they hold great edges. My rat 2 is at 10° per side and doesn't roll so I'd say its treatment was pretty good. I would think benchmade would exceed them but who knows lol
@@-trmxzer0-235 I have the Rat 1 and it's decent D2. Mine chipped out a little bit with the factory edge so I put a nice low angle convex on it and it's been great... I have a real love/hate relationship with D2. It has good wear resistance but low toughness. Some people say you can't get a really fine edge with D2 but they're wrong, it just tends to take a toothy edge because of a few different reasons. It's an ingot steel high in carbides so depending on the heat treat and what not it can form large carbide aggregates(I read somewhere they're commonly over 60 microns I think) in the steel matrix that can get pulled off the edge by the stone. I find Shapton Pros give me the best edges with D2.
@@AnarchAngel1 I've always read its notoriously hard to heat treat properly that's why its either hit or miss on production knives. I guess I've been lucky so far with my examples of D2 steel. Mine are relatively simple to maintain a nice level of sharpness with a plenty of bite using just DMT coarse/fine diamond plates and a 4 micron diamond strop.
So your 15k is a Shapton Pro? I'm assuming it's the same stone also marketed as a 12k? I have the "12k" Shapton and it looks like the same stone. It took me quite a while to figure out the whole "scratchier" finish of that stone vs the 8k lol. For a while I was convinced the 8k was actually finer and I got a lemon of a 12k until I "hypothesized" the same thing about old scratches simply becoming more visible 😅 I do find the 12k to be a tad softer than the 8k...what are your thoughts there?
Yes this is labeled as a 12k in some areas and 15k in others. Why they do that, I have no idea. I agree, it feels softer, but it is because the surface texture seems to be more porous. It's odd how the brighter it polishes, the more your deeper scratches stand out.
Come on Jef! Missing your vids SO much. Surely a crook ankle can’t hold you back!?
low grit is much better and faster for shaping the edge, the rest is refining the scratch pattern and finding your preference either push cut or slicing aggression.
I think you also wear out that 1000 grit stone trying to use it for a re-profile or repair.
Absolutely. They is an excellent point i missed.
I have a cheapish water stone which I soaked overnight in a bath of mineral oil then used and still use as an oil stone (. Works just fine). PS. I now use oil only on everything. Water & water stones & diamonds dry my skin out badly, min oil rehydrates my skin.
There ya go. Another example of how mixing oik on water stones, doesn't not 'ruin' them :) Thanks for sharing that
That might work for some water stones but i wouldn't try it on a Chosera or Shapton for example, pretty sure that would end badly.
Jeff says Shapton's site says oil can be used so I was totally wrong there. Wouldn't do it to a Chosera though...just looking at those things the wrong way will crack them.
Dude 64 is insane
I'll take it :)
Could you do a strop maintenance video?
Well, I guess it might be controversial but I was wondering your opinion on using that shapton pro 120 vs say atoma 140, lower grit sones of different types, for high vanadium carbide steels and when you plan on then going to progressively higher grit stones after that.
Shapton pro bs atoma? I’d take shapton all day everyday over it. Faster and leaves a better scratch pattern. For high vanadium steels i prefer to use venev diamond or gritomatics silicone carbide stones
@@Jef Thanks for the answer!
@@Jef So in your opinion the Shapton 120 is faster than the Atoma 140? The 120 and the 30k are the only Shaptons I don't own and honestly if you think it's faster than the Atoma I kind of wanna give it a whirl and keep my Atoma on flattening duty. I really don't enjoy using it, but I'm sharpening semi-proffesionally at the moment and I kinda have to...a lot 😆 I get a lot of conflicting opinions when I ask people about the 120 ( 220 as well for that matter ). Some people complain it's way too friable and wears too quickly but I'm not sure what people expect from such a coarse stone. I used to feel the same about the 220 but I've made friends with that stone
Well keep in mind my atoma plate is pretty worn. So, yes, it is much faster imo. Maybe a new atoma would change my mind, but there it is. When dealing with large bevels, or thinning, the Shapton is leaps and bounds faster. Diamond plates dont do well in those scenarios.
The 120 is friable, esp when dealing with v bevels. It comes into its own, thinning, or large bevels. As long as you take care of it, it shouldn’t wear too fast. As with all things, it will depend on use, of course.
It is hard to say bc i change my opinion each time i use one or the other, but i think the shapton 120 is my favorite coarse grit. The norton coarse crystolon fights for that spot as well.
And with high grit stone you gonna convex it even more with so many passes. That might be desirable in some cases, I like a convex
Indeed. Same holds true with every stone you introduce. The fewer you use, the less convex you'll see.
Slightly convex edge is usually what I actually shoot for with D2. It can be a little chippy and doesn't have the greatest edge stability if you don't strengthen the edge with a convex or at least a pretty significant microbevel in my experience
How are you doing Man? Long time, no see.
Slowly healing. Getting older and breaking bones are not good company. I'll be making a video in the next week or so. Other than that, just waiting to see what happens with this crazy virus stuff. How about you and yours? Everyone safe and healthy?
It's all good here, @@Jef. Thank you for asking.
I look forward to seeing your next video. When you're ready.
It's nice to hear from you, and get all healed up soon. Things will be back to normal, before we know it.
👍🍺🔪🍀🕟😎
At the moment i have a shapton pro 1500 and 5000. I want to go for a 3 stone lineup with the shapton 320 but i'm afraid the leap between 320 and 1500 is too big. I'm considering a naniwa 600 instead. What would you do?
I'm not a fan of Naniwa due to the cracking issues I have had with them. The Naniwa Pro 400, is a phenomenal stone, however. If you are leaning that direction, The 1500 should be able to remove the Naniwa Pro 400 scratches, though it may take a little longer, than just a 1k. Not terribly so, but maybe a few extra minutes per side. The 600 Is a decent enough stone, but the 400 is where it's at. Such a good one.
@@Jef thx! I'm gonna check that 400 one out. So a shapton pro 320 could also work?
@@brentvandeputte4538 Absolutely, but if I am to be honest, the Naniwa Pro 400, is hands down, the best stone in that grit range. Coarser than you would think, and produces a finish much finer than the grit would lead you to believe. Be careful, as that is a double edged sword. It is so quick, you may over sharpen, and not realize it :)
I have 3 dmt diamond hones im wondering on the coarse on 325’grit how it compares to the Shapton 120 Im gonna buy the 320,1k, and 5k Shapton Pro soon
The 120 shapton doesn’t leave as deep scratches as diamond, however, it cuts the steel faster. There are only a handful of stones that are faster than the shapton 120.
If I can make a recommendation, try the double thick Shapton Glass 500 followed by the Pro 1.5k or 2k followed by the 5k or 8k. This progression has worked very well for me. The 500 glass cuts pretty much just as fast as the Pro 320 and leaves a more refined scratch pattern. Try it...you won't be disappointed 😉
You mentioned a water/oil mixture I'm one of your videos. Can you point me to your video that explains it s little better? I enjoy your videos and information.
th-cam.com/video/9GDyMdrPHl4/w-d-xo.html
the formula is around the 1:35 mark, but watch the entire thing. tons of good info from caleb
Had no idea Shapton actually says you can use oil, I would have thought that would be a major no no for a magnesia based stone.
I didn't either till about a year ago :p
Paddy sent me to check your channel out wish you luck on your subs
That man has a heart of gold. Thanks for dropping in. I mostly go sharpening videos, but if you check my channel, I do have some videos discussing knives I own. Along with a few others that were sent to me to get an opinion on. Cheers!
I would like to know your opinion on using the spyderco UF as a finisher, let's say after a shapton 1k, 2k progression
It's an excellent finisher. The polish is really nice. Not the best stone to remove a burr, but if the edge is fairly cleaned up before hand, it can usually do the rest. I use it often, as a touch up stone. In terms of grit rating, I think it falls around the 3-4k mark. At least that seems to be where mine lands.
Im so tired of people saying their starter stone is 800 to 1000..and using anything 120 300 range is only for reprofiling. And dont use it for inital sharpening. Like do they not understand the idea of grinding and or sanding u dont polish wood at 8k instandly u start coars and work up. Oh well
I bet that dude ran that edge straight into a cinderblock afterwards
Why do you say that
@@Jef Haha just a guess based on people I've sharpened knives for in the past.
:p
I do edge trailing only on shapton pros 5k and above. I also generally only use one of each stone type, 1 course/grinder (up to 320 in SP), 1 sharpener (1-2k in SP) and 1 finisher/polisher (5k, 8k, 12k in SP) unless like you I just want to play around with stuff. I'm a big fan of that 12k. It's very very similar to my 10K chosera which was much more expensive. They are obviously different, but about as close as 2 different stones can be.
I don’t like edge trailing. It creates a burr that can be very stubborn to remove. I know others use it for deburring, but i always found it created one 🤷♂️
@@Jef You've also got excellent control over your technique. For most mere mortals it's not hard to end up with a more polished but less keen edge on glassy finishing stones like the SP 5K and above if you're not careful with edge leading. As far as burr is concerned, you are obviously correct however I haven't found it to be an issue when it comes to such fine grit stones. If a burr is generated, say by focusing on one side too much, it's imperceptibly small and gets minimized by the way some people do it, which is generally alternating strokes at this stage. This is usually where I lose a stubborn burr when I'm starting the alternating edge trailing stokes on a finisher. For sure on anything lower grit than finishing stones, yeah it's a fast one way ticket to giant burr city.