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Why is the Ford Focus RS Intercooler Blocked Off?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 ก.พ. 2018
- If you own a Mk3 Focus RS, you may have noticed there is a portion of the Front Mount Intercooler which is blocked off from factory.
What is it? Why is it there? Can it be removed? Answers in this video....
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I don't even plan on owning a focus rs but the sher knowledge that you take time to provide to the public is awesome and (I'm sure I can speak for everyone that watches) I really appreciate you for sharing all the research and findings that you discover!
thanks
Julius Peoples i
Great video , I learned something today
rob320is Factories have more data than we will ever get our hands on and won't make / install a part that does nothing. They do make parts that work against what some of us car people want but that's another story!
I would avoid the ford focus. The 2010 thru 2016 versions had terrible transmission and clutch issues. I had to have the clutch replaced 5 times and the transmission 2. It's a huge known problem that they refuse to permanently fix. Once you are out of warranty...you are screwed. I will never own another ford product.
The gen 1 3.5 ecoboost in the f150 has this issue under low throttle conditions as it would collect moisture in the intercooler in humid conditions, then when you stabbed the throttle for say climbing a hill it would ingest all that into the motor at once causing it to stutter and shutter bad (happened twice to me). The biggest problem was how low the intercooler was in the intake chain, it was the lowest part so water would easily collect until it was surged up into the plenum via boost on throttle and or inertia. Ways they dealt with it was blocking off parts of the cooling vanes inside the plastic caps of the intercooler, rendering the effective cooling to be slower or less efficient as stated here. However many found that drilling a weep hole in the bottom of one cap would allow a constant small pressure release that acted as a purge to push condensing water out before it could collect in any capacity, yet not a large enough hole to affect boost pressures at the manifold as the turbos nearly never hit peak load and could over take the loss. (Note that drilling the intercooler will void warranties). Best way to combat this tho, was a mild tune. It added boost more frequently in the lower rpms, which pulled through condensate before it could gather in pools. Never had a repeat after I put in a unichip. Pulled the chip after I sold the truck tho.
s1283 exactly! Spot on! You described my truck.
Is that cheap piece of rubber glued to the intercooler the same material they used for the head gasket?
Apparently yes
In short, Yes.
Ouch.
Ford screwed up the head gasket by putting the ecoboost mustang gasket on the RS. Not because of quality.
jmelzer it's fuck all to do with the head gasket and if you believe that eco boost shite your an idiot. It's the open deck that creates the gasket problem, this block is notorious for cracking at the rear behind number two cylinder and has been since production started. Perfectly fine in a family run about but a very long way from a performance bottom end. I was attempting irony with gasket comment. I've personally seen the recall replacement gasket fail after less than 1000 miles on a car that has no modifications and has only 7500 miles on the clock. Are we expected to believe the wrong gasket was ordered and fitted on a modern production line? I've seen both gasket's side by side new and used and I don't for one second think this is the cause or cure. Very close inspection of both used gasket's leads me to believe the flexing between cylinder's one and two is the problem.
VW TDIs had this same problem... they'd collect so much water in the winter time, it would turn into a slug of ice that would either starve the engine of air while driving, or melt when the car was parked and hydrolock the motor when it was restarted.
They did a service action to fit a new intercooler with a diverter valve which closes off ~40% of the fins. It gets activated at some temprature near freezing.
good stuff man, thanks for that info, pretty neat.
Yup, mine still builds up even with the Tsb performed. I’m draining it every two weeks, just to be in the safe side
Not likely. One cold air is pretty dry below freezing. Two the hot side is really hot even at idle looking at over 40c full boost could go over well 180c. Lastly if there was enough water in the IC to block it completely when it froze the IC channels would likely rupture when the water froze and expanded. So restricted maybe with some extreme weather conditions.
To get that much moisture in the system you would need a very humid condition with drastic drop in temp well below freezing. Plus the way you described the operation it wouldn't work. At normal temp it would be restricted if said blockage occurred opening them would allow normal flow until the engine reached normal operating temp. There is no chance of the ambient air temp freezing the IC while the engine is running. Whatever moisture was trapped in the IC would evaporate quickly and below freezing there isn't enough moisture in the air for it form again.
GlassTopRX7 or you might pick up some snow, and have it melt on the intake filter humidifying the intake air. There are lots of potential ways to get moisture where you don't want it.
This has more to do with the cheap ass factory IC. I run a vented hood with huge opening, no rain gutters and a exposed element. Never had an issue in humid FL with it's massive downpours. The restrictive factory IC is causing the problem in low rpm, low boast situations.
That's honestly something I never considered, but now that you've mentioned it that makes perfect sense.
It's great to see a real explanation as to why this is done.
Your current 875 likes, I suspect, are all from currently confused RS owners who indeed have suffered this misfire issue, good video that clearly explains what the problem is, big thumbs up for being clear and concise unlike your local Ford dealership
So you can take it to the shop and they say “ok I found the problem, apparently you have a blocked cooler, that’ll run you around $1100, but I’ll do it for $1050”
Ant thats ford for ya.
further more if this rubber patch were to fall off, oh wow, that like a few hundred dallors
Same intercooler as on F150 and Explorer. Some people had water condesation on a long drive in humid rainy condition (early f150 ecoboost ) so they fix the issue with sticker.
I removed my sticker on Explorer and make sure I hit full boost every time I drive - to clean out any moisture in the intercooler.
Small amount of moisture will clean carbon, large amount will cause misfire (just like seafoam engine treatment ).
I live in Michigan, humid climate, never had issues with sticker removed, but I do not baby the car...sticker is there for old people who drive light.
Hi thanks for the explanations, my rs has Revo stage 2 unit, with a huge intercooler, all silicone pipes, a mounting hard pipe, mounting cold air kit and k&n filter and I use magigas ak5 octane booster and royal purple ice mix for keeping the temp low, the car is now a real beast.
You say 'for now I'm Brett Middleton' - I was just wondering who you will be later on?
Tds DogSquad Abbreviation of "That's all for now".
He becomes mrett biddleton
Maybe he believes in reincarnation.
'getahanddown' I think my comment might have gone over your head a little bit
Kim Jong Un
Finally someone that makes me feel like the saying, "learn something new every day" actually applies to their video, and isn't just recycling someone else's crap for the millionth time.
thanks, we appreciate your feedback :)
That was fascinating, you learn something everyday. Thanks
thanks
I got my own ford corrected .... I sold it and now I am the happiest man
Thanks for the explanation! It's nice to know the reason behind this black block.
I saw quite some car reviewers including Matt Farah just said that you could simply remove it and improve your performance right away.
I know nothing bout cars nor really care about them. But this was a superb vid and extremely informative. the star was knowledgeable and well spoken. Thumbs up.
thanks
:)
great video, I wonder why my air filters never damp? if there's enough moisture to condense and form droplets surely my paper filter should be wringing wet after half an hours drive in the fog? I've never seen water corrosion on any intake path even after using steel exhaust tubing for intake piping a few times. the outside goes brown but the inside of the pipes never rusted?
So if I had this car, since I live in a climate where the humidity is basically non existent, I live in a desert in Southern California, USA, but I'd be able to removed that block off plate (don't know what else to call that floppy piece of rubber/plastic whatever it is lol) and then get a custom tune and take full advantage of what Ford originally intended until they found out about the Humidity and condensation problems? Am I interpreting you correctly? Sounds awesome too since you said cooler inlet means, the ability to advance timing, and that means more torque, and I like the idea of that since it's a 4 cylinder and the more torque the more it feels like a bigger engine.
4drturbo85 yeah instead of doing that I’d just replace the stock one with an aftermarket one
F150 EBs had a problem at first where they would run WFO and not have a problem in Arizona until that 1 rain storm per year came around. Evetually the f150a that had this problem reported would get blocked off too. That was their fix.
Hey, I also live in a desert in Southern California, USA! Imperial Valley that is.
Yung Padawan En
I do love the explanation, and it totally makes sense!
The solution is equally brilliant; and simple. :-)
Just to add complexity, it would be fun to add a variable air dam in front of that intercooler in place of the blanking panel. It can be easily varied based on information gathered by other systems.
Just knowing the relative humidity outside and the dew point would be helpful in determining whether or not the intercooler needs to be blocked at all.
At high altitudes, it would likely never need to be blocked at all; as the dew point can be below freezing even if the relative humidity is 90%+ on a 35°C day. However, at low altitudes, ot hot days, it'd likely need to be blocked all the time, as the dew point can be higher than 35°C, on a hot day.
It would be interesting to see if there’s any difference in power from removing that piece blocking the intercooler. I’d like to see someone test it on a dyno.
Ryan Lange did u even watch the video?
Nissan Mechanic There is no back to back testing in the clip and info like - remove or leave the blanking plate if your environment meets xyz conditions would be useful.
Do I make it seasonal for 30°c summer then replace for trips to the snow etc would be good info.
Nissan Mechanic I watched the whole video which is why I thought it would be interesting to see what the difference would be by removing the piece. Did you watch the video? Did you understand the video?
I haven't tested it, but my guess would be there isn't a benefit to removing the cover unless you're going to tune the ecu, or if you're already pushing the car to it's temperature limits (ie. track days)
rfayed from my experience your absolutely correct. You won't notice any change in numbers unless you tune (change)the ecu parameters because the ecu is always compensating.
Very interesting and great explanation here on a problem I'm sure most people would never think of
i have a 2014 2.0 turbo ford fusion..i live in califronia.. and the air is very dry most of the year..even in the winter so i removed that cover. a few months ago..maybe some power gain, but to little to feel..i also removed it as it was 7 years on the car.. and could not see the sun thru it..bugs, leaves etc.. so i water gun washed it forward and backwards a few time.. after i could see thru it,, reinstalled.. after that i did notice a power increase .. i shall do this once a year..its pretty easy to take off the front bumper cover
Not a Focus RS owner, but really interesting video. Great explanation.
That was well worth watching! Thanks for such a information filled and well presented video!
A bit of water injection should lower the temps, reduce knock and allow increased ignition timing. Not convinced about the trapped condensate.
I believe in sub-zero climates, the water would actually freeze and block the intercooler which was the problem.
I live in Michigan, I also removed the rubber flap that Ford glued on the intercooler and in the winter time I would make about 8 psi less boost than summer time
Lessons learned from the 1st generation 3.5 Ecoboost F150, we installed block plates over the top 1/4 of the intercooler to raise the temps of the charge air.
Quality info/channel you have here. Subscribed.
I've done the same...good share of r&d
Awesome video mate! So being in Australia, would you recommend keeping the blanking plate or will removing it be safe here in Sydney?
This is food for thought. I live in Louisiana, USA, and it gets very humid here in summer. Now I dont have a Ford or even a factory turbo car (I building a 93 accord), but I wonder if there is a way to accurately determine if the intercooler I'm using is too much and causing condensation?
This is the first I've ever heard of this issue, must strictly apply to cold weather conditions. People have been upgrading their intercoolers for decades and never have i heard that they work so well that water droplets form.
Doesn't this essentially say you can not only not remove this in certain areas of the world but that you cannot even upgrade the FMIC?
A lot of the Ford F150 with ecoboost engines have intercooler water condensation problems. People drill a little hole in the bottom of the intercooler to drain the water. They might lose a bit of boost, but there are still plenty. The turbo might just need to work a bit harder, or the waste gate don't have to release as much.
Hey, this is a lot like one of those Apple design 'Features'..
Tf2 engie!!!
Yup
Meh, a bit of carbon cleaning isn't that bad :D
Defiantly, but maybe (at the worst) a tiny bit of hesitation/ spatter, won't do any damage! ECU should rich up the mixture if it see's it go lean, it has enough adjustment to do so..Wouldn't worry about detonation.
Who clicked thumbs down. This was a great video
My B9 Audi A4 had the same deal, a plastic blanking plate clipped around the entry side of the intercooler
Love the thought they put into an intercooler. To bad they didn't do such a good job on the head gasket of the turbo 2.3 . Atleast with the old quad 4 from GM you got 70 miles out of it before it blew. Their are vids up with RS owners with less than 20k miles with the Ford turbo 2.3 that are so bad they warranty the entire drive train. Due to the gasket failing so badly it warped the head and the block deck beyond repair specs. Good video though.
My Ford Explorer 3.5 ecoboost had the same block plate on the intercooler. If I'm not mistaken all Ford intercoolers have them.
Mighty Car Mods...
In cold areas that water gets Frozen in the cooler and when it melts it can hydrolock the engine. Has happened to passat and some other vw cars.
Excellent video mate 👍 condensation... who would of thunk it
Awesome information, good on ya 😁👍
Great presentation, you have earn't a sub!
Can some type of diffuser be installed on cool side to turn the water droplets back into a mist form and simmulate a water/methanol system? Or would it have to be pressurized like a water/methanol system?
A way to take advantage of the bigger intercooler area, without dropping the inlet temps to the point where condensation would occur, would be to turn the boost up a bit. More compression = more mass flow into the engine, but a higher temperature; more intercooling drops the temperature back down to where you started. This does make the naive assumption that raising the boost pressure doesn't trip the engine into detonation - to do the proper job, you'd have to drop the engine's compression ratio a bit too, which is a lot of work and / or cost.
How about just putting a "leak off" check valve kept warm by some part of the intake air or other part of the car, so the water could just seep out? With the air flow in question, any air leakage out would be insignificant.
Similar concept to why I leave open very slightly the ball valves on a shop compressed air supply tank and downpipes to bleed off accumulated moisture.
The heat exchangers on air conditioners are WELL bellow ambient thanks to the endothermic reaction caused by evaporating the refrigerant. Intercoolers on turbo cars, besides a refrigerant based system like on the dodge demon, do not yield cold air (unless they're using cold ambient air which is much less likely to be humid). They cool the air down to near ambient temps, but cannot even get to ambient (would require 100% efficiency).
I'm not saying you cannot get condensation in the intercooler. The extremely narrow design of this particular one coupled with Ford's insistence on running ecoboost turbos well beyond their efficiency maps (generate a ton of heat) is the problem, as the temperature differential is greater than typical systems and you're running that air over an even smaller surface area.
Sub ambient temperature is possible with enough restriction. If an intercooler had a restrictor plate on the cold side, it could work like an ac condenser with the pressure difference.
@@FirstLast-ov7ch it wouldn’t. You’d create even more heat compressing the air before the intercooler further with the added restriction. This is why AC systems blow hot air when the refrigerant leaks out and the exact case you explained occurs.
@@KTMcaptain more heat energy is taken away by the intercooler if it runs hotter. Air conditioners and heat pumps work by changing air pressure and moving the heat. A weight of compressed air has the same heat energy as ambient just in a small area. The heat mostly isn't created by friction. compressed air comes out ice cold out of an ambient tank. Heat energy was removed when it was compressed.
@@KTMcaptain I don't think ac systems create pressure when they run out of refrigerant
@@FirstLast-ov7ch it’s a compressor designed to compress a gas into high pressure…. You’d have to compress the air to high enough pressures and remove the induced heat from compression to drop it into a liquid state for it to cool.
.
That’s why they use refrigerants that have relatively low boiling temperatures.
What are your thoughts on air to water inter coolers, and is it possible to make the inlet air too cold?
Very interesting. So what about all these tuners running around with huge intercoolers in humid areas? Because pretty much during the course of a year it can get humid almost anywhere
we cant determine that, but we do know the facts in this case :)
So, why does this not seem to be a problem on tuner cars modest sized turbo's maxed out with giant FMIC? Is it because with the a setup like that the post compressor air temp is much higher, thus the large FMIC isn't so over kill after all and doesn't cause the problem?
Awesome vid thank you
Fantastic informative and concise, great job👌🏻
I'm not sure about that idea. Water injection is widely used here to DECREASE detonation. Maybe under some bad or cheap gas, low or no boost, or cold weather conditions it causes knock?
Thanks for the video, very well explained.
I have up graded my st to shortin the gear shift and its the same bits thats in the trasit and the rs . And a lot of the bits on the st come from volvo . You find it out as you take the car apart .
As others have said, a tiny weep hole would eliminate water buildup while maintaining maximum cooling.
So much info. Holy crap. Good vid!!!
Really interesting and really well explained! Thanks!
Awesome video! very informative and educating! keep up the good work guys!
Is it a problem in Australia? I can understand the problem in snowy areas.
Ford had hell with this problem in the first Ecoboost F-150's sold in Florida and S. Texas. People having all kinds of hesitation, stalling and misfire problems. They finally tracked it down to the issue described here. TH-cam search "ecoboost F150 hesitation"
Is that mainly due to the direct injection?
4drturbo85
No, it was due to sucking up condensed water out of the intercooler. The "solution" was just to block off part of the intercooler and make it less efficient.
Or to drill a small 1/16th hole in the bottom on the cold side of the intercooler.
How does the water droplets cause misfire?? Spark plugs and injectors are pretty weather proofed. Where is this extra humidity causing a problem in the engine?
Is there a good alternate for areas with high humidity?
My EVO VIII MR had its shares of quirks, but nothing like this, or the deck issue on some RS models.
how much you want to bet it was a leaky head gasket that caused the misfire, and not the intercooler
kickercar it's solved and explained by Ford that many FOCUS RS received the wrong head gasket. Even though the mustang shares an engine they use different gaskets.
lmao, rip
Imleocalm that may be the case but it's still a shitty open deck design, which might work fine on your mums fiesta but not a good idea for a performance car.
Since Ford is a pretty large company with relatively good quality standards, I'm pretty sure they have competent test engineers. If they say it's the intercooler's fault, you can be pretty sure it is.
The head gasket were not leaky, they were simply wrong. Mustang engine head gasket were used on RS engines. While engines were thought same, they weren't, so the wrong head gasket was covering holes, which of course does lead to a problem. How such mistake can happen is beyond me, but car manufacturers have done much worse, so since they took action and covered the damages, that's fine.
Example - BMW never did, or did partially, cover for its mistakes with the E46 M3, a much more expensive car, that got a shot through engine (valves), because of not enough oil in part of the engine. Cars were getting the problem within 5000km ... The bad thing is, they were blaming YOU as driver. Ford stepped up and fixed it. That's huge difference.
So, except if you are an RS owner that got told to fuck off and fix it himself, I see no point of whining on YT. There are much more expensive cars around that had worse problems and not all of them were fixed by the manufacturer.
What i dont understand is how my m50 turbo with a intercooler 3 times the size of that is not causing condesation in the mountain where i live, very high humidity. When i drive it like a normal car the intercooler is cold to the touch. No issues with condesation. M50b25 forged, fmic 100mmx600x300, gt3076. And to top that off i run wmi also
The real solution is to run smaller gaps on the plugs, and to frequently change the plugs. I have the MKS EcoBoost which had the misfire before I replaced the plugs and gapped them at 028. Factory calls for 035-040. This is a common problem in turbo cars with intercoolers.
Haaaa! Factory installed water injection and carbon cleaning ! Awesome ! 😁
Do our Australian Ford Focus RS's suffer head gasket issues like the US models?
Perfectly explained.
Well,Cool thing to learn about,I live in Norway so I'm thinking of ripping it off,but still,it's there for a reason,but then again,if there is any gains why not....
It can happen in just about any region with the right conditions and really no turbo car with intercooler is immune to it to a certain degree... conditions how the water forms, strips off or is ingested will vary. The interesting part here is that it was actually thought through as a possible outcome during development. Think about how many tuners would ever think a larger or more effective intercooler is a bad thing.
Wow! Very informative,
Subscribed!
Serious question then. An aftermarket inter cooler would have the same problems no?
I do live in an extremely humid climate. Are there solutions to this problem that don’t sacrifice performance?
Possibly.............
Soo.. if you wanted a bigger cooler and had moisture to deal with.. is there another solution?
I run an rs intercooler without blocking plate on my st and it works wonders and i got it for pennies
Thanks for the video! Is there any benefits of upgrading my intercooler in a cold climate country?
Yes, our testing shows there is a benefit
MRT Performance thank you!
Did yoi dyno that RS before and after removing that block off plate?
Or they did that as a lil performance gain you can do obviously pretty easy, hidden secrets... like 1g eagle talons having 2 step in their ecu, or the lil ball in r32's that when removed give like 5 psi more
Just curiuos why then so they make intercoolers as big as a 34 in tv where you have to remove all but the bumper skin?
Don't put in a water separator. Just reduce performance. Ford does it again...
Great video, thanks for taking the time of making it :D
Thanks
Ford does the same on the F150 ecoboost trucks mine had a black plastic block off plate
I don't own a focus rs, but I live in socal and it's almost always 0% humidity, very dry where I live, so i would def take that off
will buy the next focus RS once it got a dual clutch
Ford learning from its (pick up) ecoboost engines....
Peoples usually drill a tiny hole at the bottom of the intecooler to evacuate water.
michaelovitch really??
lmfao.
Common problem and solution on pick up trucks
Eeeeerm
BWAHAHAHAHA, drilling a hole in the intercooler?! Great idea...
I would have thought that the bonus in humid areas that its free water injection for the engine
I don't buy that simply on the grounds that water injection is a high-performance engine anti-detonation strategy. The idea that humidity in the air, condensed into a mist into the intake charge would cause a misfire is pretty ridiculous
Urban Weekend Warrior It depends on the size of the water droplets. A fine mist with a small droplet size works, in the case of the Focus the amount of water was uncontrolled and there is a chance it was pooling in the intercooler and then getting sucked into the engine in large puddles which would make it run rough.
Believe it. It sucks to have a new rig and it does this shit
Are you sure it's because of this, and not because of an open deck block taking boost, relying on the gasket to keep the cylinder walls from deflecting?
Regarding a large puddle getting "sucked in all at once"- it's forced induction, there's pressure behind the intercooler coming from the compressor at all times. Gas flows the path of least resistance, so even if it were possible for a puddle to form (and not get constantly evacuated, forming droplets no bigger than the inner vanes of the intercooler), the intake charge would prefer the gas-only path for less resistance, and pull fluid from the puddle venturi style. After all, the intake pipe joins midway up the return side tank, and the puddle would have to form at the bottom.
There's another weird assumption here. Yes there is a thermal difference, but the true "cold side" is on the outside of the intercooler. The inside is getting heated via compressed hot intake charge. Measure the temperature on the outlet side, it's not exactly frigid. Coming off boost when the pressure inside drops rapidly is about the only time it would condense any amount of water, and in order to come off boost another time (to build up water), you would've been on boost which would likely evacuate the water.
@@urbanweekendwarrior7238 The Honda K20C1 also has an open-deck block, I don't think an open-deck block is a problem in itself.
Great video!
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That part is from a transit van . Ford dont make parts for one car or van . They may sell 20000 rs but 600000 vans . So when they start building somthing like an rs they look to see what they can get from a big box off bits . The geat shifter at the box is from a transit as well
Surprise, so does every other car brand.
Did you know that the Maserati Levante has interior parts coming from a Dodge Durango?
There is even a Ferrari that uses the same fuel pump as a pick-up truck.
Does a Transit use a 6-speed gtrag? That's awesome!
The V6 twin turbo transit is actually pretty fast when not carrying anything.
Neo VeNoM wrong bud. So wrong.....
havent looked at his claims but your probably wrong
This is some awesome info.
I liked the Ford Focus when it first came out but ever since I found out it's an open deck block I've changed my mind
The F150 Ecoboost has the same problem. Coincidence?
Team Neudimensions yes it does. I have a 2012. To fix it you have to do some things that Ford can't legally do.
On the F-150 it was actually a factory technical service bulletin to block the intercooler off because of water pools up inside of it
they fixed it at some point.. my 2012 did it at just below freezing temps but ive never noticed it on my 2015
Most ford’s with an eco boost engine have a TSB for that issue depending on build date
Great video 😁 always helpful
thanks,please help by re sharing our videos and be sure to subscribe
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Very informative thanks 🙏 sir
Top video as always man.
thanks, we appreciate your feedback :)
Wouldn't driving for more than 20 minutes be enough to evaporate water condensation inside the intercooler? Also from what I've read, water vapors reduces engine knock, which is why some high power turbo builds have water mist injection. Anyway I appreciate the video, and I'd remove the rubber block plate/sheet anyway hehe.
Here in Asia , ambient never drops below 30 degrees Celsius even at night , get rid of that , we need as much cooling as possible
Does Australia have as tough an emissions standards as does California?