The Real Meaning of Lucifer

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 ก.พ. 2025
  • In this video I discuss the meaning and symbolism of the title Lucifer, or the Morning Star, drawing on the Old and New Testament. How it is that this title both refers to Christ, as well as the Adversary?
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ความคิดเห็น • 408

  • @nektulosnewbie
    @nektulosnewbie 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +173

    The beginning part reminds me of in LOTR when Aragorn, Gimli and Legolas confess they thought Gandalf the White was Saruman wandering about and Gandalf reflects on it saying that he is Saruman - Saruman as he should of been fufilling his purpose to help counsel and guide the Free People's instead of trying to become a new Dark Lord.

    • @jmbyrd92
      @jmbyrd92 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +18

      This is an awesome comment. Thank you for the reference and the perspective. Tolkien’s genius was inside of his deep knowledge of the old stories and of course his faith in the Greatest Story Ever Told.

    • @justinpeter5752
      @justinpeter5752 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

      It’s a paschal hymn “Let God arise, let God arise and let his enemies be scattered.”

    • @thereturntobeing
      @thereturntobeing 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

      Synchronicity! Just saw that scene last night.

    • @SavannahSedai
      @SavannahSedai 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      I love how fantasy classics help me understand life

    • @jonah9861
      @jonah9861 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      That’s exactly what is called Positivism.

  • @PaulVanderKlay
    @PaulVanderKlay 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +136

    This is so helpful. Thank you!

    • @nawdude4292
      @nawdude4292 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      How so?

    • @lancep994
      @lancep994 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      ​@@nawdude4292 helpful for him to explain this verse to his congregation

  • @MartianMechanic
    @MartianMechanic 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

    Venus’ descent into the darkness of night then rising back into day follows the death and resurrection of Christ.
    You do amazing work!

  • @AjNotsri
    @AjNotsri 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

    As far as the use of the word Lucifer and the symbolism of the morning star in the Mazzaroth, I think your analysis is correct. I think that Latin word as now been obfuscated within todays culture and to remain true to the text I think the Hebrew word Ben Hillel Shacar fits more appropriately.
    A few counter points to consider here.
    1.) Historically, the RCC has deep roots in sun worship through its early Mithraism and syncretism of Roman paganism with Christianity at the Council of Nicaea.
    2.) The pope is considered the vicar of Christ and claims the authority of Christ in fullness on earth. This is about as negative luciferian as you can get.
    3.) The Catholic Church has a deep history in persecuting the actual Saints of Yahweh. That is very luciferian in the negative sense. This is recorded fact and was often written about by the early church fathers. By the way Yeshua and his disciples never called themselves Christians. They were called Christian’s in Antioch because that is where the new Roman pagan Christian churches were present and already at work. To go deeper, the mystery of iniquity and the anti messiah spirit was already present as stated in scripture and what is the anti messiah except a false image of the true messiah? The Roman Greco Jesus is a very different image and agent representation of Yeshua and Yahweh than the actual Hebrew messiah Yeshua representing Yahweh as his proxy agent rooted in the Hebraic faith. Nothing was done away with. Physical things were spiritually transposed including the temple and priesthood, however that did not include the sabbath, dietary laws, or feast days, which are huuuugee commandments to be kept. If you look in Isaiah you will see the judgments coming upon the earth in the last day are specifically tied to the eternal sabbath and Sabbaths covenants being rejected and ignored the son of men. I can keep going but I digress. I have references if you would like Jonathan.
    4.) The early church fathers HATED those who walk the narrow way, that is, having the testimony of Christ and keeping the (bad word here) Law (Torah) commandments, if you will. The church fathers called them “judaizers” but their actually name were Nazarenes or more accurately Natsarim. So, interestingly enough if you do the research the apostles and disciples were keeping the sabbath, dietary laws, and feast days 300 years after Christ’s ascension until there were persecuted and killed by the new Roman pagan bastardization of the faith once delivered to the saints, which by the way the early church fathers completely identified with.
    5.) Within Catholicisms Catechism there exists an admission that the RCC took it upon itself to change the Saturday Sabbath to Sunday as a worship and rest day in which there was no scriptural authority to do so. That is in their own words. Very negative Lucifer there.
    6.) The over the top sun symbolism put into the proper perspective of history and origin within the Catholic religion does lend credence to viewing those symbols as negative luciferian.

  • @tomredd9025
    @tomredd9025 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +13

    Thank you for the outstanding video. I have always been enthralled by the Morning and Evening Star. It started when I was about 5 years old. We are of Slovak heritage. My mother would send me out on my grandmother's porch on Christmas Eve to watch for the first star to come out. When I would see it and go running in the house, this would be the signal for the entire family to start the most sacred meal of the year, the Christmas Vigil meal. Of course, that star is always the Evening Star. As I got educated in Anthropology and developed a strong desire to understand symbolism, I came to realize that this star is symbolic of the Star of Bethlehem, which as you so elegantly laid out is symbolic of the incarnation of Jesus. The fact that the star is also the Morning Star, made so much sense. I think one of the most beautiful prayers in the Roman liturgy, is the "Exultet" (Exultation), which is read or preferably sung at the start of the Easter Vigil Liturgy. It beautifully names Jesus as the Morning Star.

  • @ACE-pm3gh
    @ACE-pm3gh 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +12

    This explanation of Lucifer was very illuminating

    • @galaxygur
      @galaxygur 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +7

      nice pun

    • @daniebeth
      @daniebeth 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      See what you did there

  • @MappingtheArchetypes
    @MappingtheArchetypes 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

    The easiest way for me to understand this concept is this: a torch is something that bears the light -it’s a Lucifer. It is not the light itself. If it seeks to invert the order and be the light itself, the role that gives it teleological identity is rejected, and so as it is with a literal, physical torch that is inverted: the fire it beared destroys it. Similarly, words are meant to carry meaning. If you remove the meaning of a word, it returns to dust as just sounds and shapes.
    Like these examples, the Naccash or “shining one” when seeking to BE the light, as opposed to bearing the light, rejects the teleological orientation that gives it identity and so is “cast down to crawl in the ground.” Like the example of words… the word becomes dead matter when it does not convey meaning. Conversely, a word is elevated from being simply dead matter by having the Spirit of Life breathed into it in the form of meaning. An Angel is a messenger… if it’s not carrying a message it no longer has teleological identity and is then cast down into simply being “stuff.”

  • @Bradtheartguy
    @Bradtheartguy 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +12

    Modern example that comes to mind is when Anthony Fauci proclaims "I am science!" when the power of a scientist is actually derived from natural law.

  • @JamesSmith-io8sz
    @JamesSmith-io8sz 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +51

    Beautiful description and what a way to view how followers of Christ are like the angels who are fractals of God and are used as vessels to carry out his will without disruption. And there is order within that structure

    • @kennorthunder2428
      @kennorthunder2428 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    • @smokydogy
      @smokydogy 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Beautiful way to justify any wrongdoing as a "holy misstep" like modern day pharisees and the black popes have in common

    • @alexsalinas2236
      @alexsalinas2236 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      It’s funny really, you could make an argument it’s referring to the devil and how he uses people as vessels

    • @Ledhoven
      @Ledhoven 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

      The idiom petros petra is like a Christ fractal small stones and cliff chip off the ole block.

  • @gjs512
    @gjs512 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +13

    Lucifer is the phosphorous, with the capacity for being the logos or the antilogos

  • @Akuma.73
    @Akuma.73 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    The ending of this video is what I was searching for, it was right there all the time I just somehow didn't connect the dots all the way. Thank you for this insightful video. Stay humble :)

  • @DrWolves
    @DrWolves 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +11

    I'm looking forward to this. It'll air just after midnight for me, so I'll have to tune in during my morning coffee.
    Always appreciate your work, my friend - brother. Amen.

  • @thomasw_
    @thomasw_ 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    i’m listening from kimberley bc; thank you for elucidating the polysemtic and structural nature of symbolism. all the fullness of joy and many years!

  • @TheApprentice007
    @TheApprentice007 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    Very Synodal to defend the Pope of Rome. Thank you Jonathan!

  • @ChristianHada
    @ChristianHada 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    This video didnt make much sense to me at the beginning but once I got to the middle and you explained the similarity with Moses, it just clicked. It makes so much sense now. This is a great video.

  • @ForseePilot
    @ForseePilot 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

    Speaking of heralds of the dawn, as Mr. Pageau touched on briefly here, I love the motif of "the cry of the rooster." Not only was it pivotal in St. Peter's story, but you see it crop up in folk tales: from slaying the mighty basilisk to scaring mischievous nocturnal spirits back into their holes -- as was referenced in Disney's "Silly Symphonies: The Skeleton Dance."

  • @joolz5747
    @joolz5747 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +9

    Excellent! Thank you! Love these 30 ish minutes of great info and teaching! 😊🙏👍

  • @TheWay-u1n
    @TheWay-u1n 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +44

    Lucifer only falls to Satan upon becoming self interested..
    Ego

    • @StephensCrazyHour
      @StephensCrazyHour 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +8

      Pride

    • @ancientbloodlineoflight
      @ancientbloodlineoflight 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      Exactly, when we elevate spiritually and embrace God, we walk in the title, Lucifer

    • @mkabalistic
      @mkabalistic 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      @Jdub0126yes but remember you act upon the image you choose to view yourself.

    • @midnightblue3285
      @midnightblue3285 24 วันที่ผ่านมา

      Self interest is not means ego, but it might end up like that it’s up to you, it’s your individual part

  • @sphesihlemanuel2933
    @sphesihlemanuel2933 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

    You will know them by their fruits remember

  • @cyruskayknight
    @cyruskayknight 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    brilliant explanation ! Thank you.

  • @zzzaaayyynnn
    @zzzaaayyynnn 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +12

    Have been following Jonathan P. for years, one of the ones who led to me to becoming Orthodox, I'm now living in E. Europe. Jonathan also has clean & clear insights into these Christian symbolic matters. And is it my imagination, or is he becoming brighter and more youthful, as if the truth shines from him?

    • @GioLeoLopez
      @GioLeoLopez 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      Funny.. he’s one of the ones who led me to becoming Catholic lol. May the LORD continue to bless your path, my brother

    • @GThomas-qq6mp
      @GThomas-qq6mp 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      I find it interesting. In America there are all these denominations and in Europe we have 3. It is similar to gender identity, with all these non-triune sects. It is easy, there are 2 genders and it is catholicism and orthodoxy. 😀

    • @zzzaaayyynnn
      @zzzaaayyynnn 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@GioLeoLopez ...and also yours, my brother!

  • @methylmike
    @methylmike 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Love the knowledge in here!
    Enlightening and rapturing for my blessed little ears

  • @RodrigoMera
    @RodrigoMera 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    In Aztec cosmology, Venus as a morning star is auspicious, while as an evening star marks the beginning of war season and sometimes famine and plagues. It was called Tlahuizcalpantecuhtli or the Lord of the Red Houses, which are the dawn and the sunset. There is a myth which says he challenged Tonatiuh, the sun, and was blinded by his own deflected arrow in his insolence. He descended to the underworld and became one of the Lords of the Underworld, Iztlacoliuhqui, which means something like Curved Obsidian Knife. He then became the god of frost, cold and retributive justice. He ruled over judiciary executions, like those of stoning and clubbing for adultery, etc.

  • @Cangaca777
    @Cangaca777 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    This was mind blowing for me! I never knew there were these two aspects about Lucifer/Satan.

  • @johnny5731
    @johnny5731 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    Its videos like this I wish Jonathon might respond to comments or make a follow-up addressing them. I'm pretty confident he has considered and has answers to many of the comments. Some I can easily answer myself but I'm too new to the faith to navigate these waters well so I just have to put it aside for now.

  • @gwenechotaylor96
    @gwenechotaylor96 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Wow. Amazing insight. Lots of dots connecting....

  • @ChristIsKingPhilosophy
    @ChristIsKingPhilosophy 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +19

    Excellent video. In loving our worldly fathers we love our heavenly Father, and in that manner we allow our fathers to bring us closer to the Father. The tradition that our fathers have, even if broken by sin, comes ultimately from the Father.

    • @ThePantygun
      @ThePantygun 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

      We are many. That's the problem. 😀

  • @Petter_GM
    @Petter_GM 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +10

    Always excited when i see a new Pageau post

  • @FREEAGAIN432
    @FREEAGAIN432 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    very helpful and clarifying, especially with all the subversion of meanings currently floating around the web, concerning the church. Deep Bow Jonathan

  • @MrsCheb
    @MrsCheb 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Thank you for your videos. I would like to view your website but it’s been down. You’re wonderful. One of the reasons to convince me of Christianity

  • @joshuadeleeuw
    @joshuadeleeuw 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    ah thanks for the clarification, some years ago i heard christians singing about the morningstar when i was zapping through the channels on tv but now i finally understand why they did.

  • @saltbilly
    @saltbilly 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Love these symbolism videos brother, keep it up. Praise Yahweh

  • @bumpercoach
    @bumpercoach 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Insightful overall
    and in the point of
    Moses being "God"
    to Aaron it reminds
    how Brigham Young
    said Adam is as "God"
    to mortals, but as you
    note here there's quite
    a temptation to
    misinterpret such
    relativity in language

  • @Liturgical-Living
    @Liturgical-Living 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Another banger as per usual

  • @grandmoffporkins
    @grandmoffporkins 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    I love the notion that, like Christ came as the Second Adam redeeming that person and position, He comes as The Morning Star, redeeming the name of Lucifer

  • @DenisFalqueto
    @DenisFalqueto 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

    Thank you so much for elicodate one of my biggest points of misunderstabdment!

    • @jayjaychadoy9226
      @jayjaychadoy9226 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Did it change anything for you having this being said?

  • @dmbr111
    @dmbr111 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    It's not like I want to use this video for quarreling, but I do have some well-meaning Protestant friends that try their best to convince me via the use of the term "Lucifer" that the pope is praying to the one that defied God. Until now, I have had no coherent counterargument to offer up. Thank you, Jonathan. These kinds of issues sow argumentative dissent among fellow Christians in a time when that kind of martial energy is better spent on other topics.

  • @paulr5246
    @paulr5246 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +12

    This will be an irresistible temptation for presumably rigorous clip artists cooking a gotcha feast!

  • @troothseeka4116
    @troothseeka4116 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +10

    Thank you for being a Catholic apologist in this one

  • @J.Livermore
    @J.Livermore 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

    Most excellent post. thank you!.

  • @angyt1070
    @angyt1070 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Woooooow❤ Amazingly insightful!

  • @grandsonofman
    @grandsonofman 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    0:17 if you are not saved than yes, Jesus comes as Lucifer (in your perception).
    But if your are, there is no dualistic symbolism.

  • @ognjenkabogdan8787
    @ognjenkabogdan8787 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    thank you! kisses from Serbia!

  • @tonox0
    @tonox0 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Amazing vid, man. It was indeed useful; God bless you.

  • @lzzrdgrrl7379
    @lzzrdgrrl7379 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +7

    This is where Sola Scriptura has brought us.....'>.....

  • @juditjakim1660
    @juditjakim1660 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    It seems to me this symbolism aligns with the role of Aries in astrology and setting up the spring. The figure of Aries is often a ram with a star on it’s horn and it’s positive aspect is breaking through the wall of darkness to bring the light of the sun. It’s far from Leo which is the height of the Sun during the year, but Aries sets up the return of light.

  • @connorhighland6783
    @connorhighland6783 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +43

    Is it kind of like how Gandalf the white IS Saruman, or how Saruman should have been?

  • @streamscounselling9501
    @streamscounselling9501 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Thank you, Jonathan for another very insightful symbolic perspectives. I would be very interested in having your take on some Sculptures, architecture and artwork in the Vatican.

  • @5thPROJEKT
    @5thPROJEKT 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    Have found it very helpful to think of Lucifer as a title, or designation referring to those that are a Light Bearer or bringer of sacred wisdom, instead of the name of anyone or thing. This is how it can apply to both Jesus and Satan before his fall, as well as to the planet, Venus. And other things, like steering wheels. 😂

    • @anonymoose2474
      @anonymoose2474 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Technically the exact same is true of "devil" and "Satan". Devil means slanderer and Satan means adversary, and the very first use in the Bible if "Satan" was referring to God being an adversary of the wicked. We don't know the true name of the being referred to nowadays as Satan/the devil/Lucifer

  • @BermondsayBattler
    @BermondsayBattler 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +9

    Not to split hairs but Pageaus linguistics are a bit off here.
    Lucifer was first used in thr Latin Vulgate and carried over to the KJV. The actual word in Hebrew in Isaiah is "haylel" which can be translated "day star" to refer to Venus. However, Isaiah calls lucifer "son of the morning star," NOT the morning star.
    In fact, recent scholarship has found that Hillel or Haylel Ben-shahar actually refers to a Ugaritic dawn deity, not Venus as the 4th century scribes believed. So this makes it even less likely that "Venus" was the intended meaning/metaphor.
    The septuagint translates lucifers name as eosophorus (sp?) "The "morning star" or "shining one" - a callback to the nahash (hebrew) "serpent" or "shining one" of Genesis. So there is continuity but clearly also a failed attempt to come up with a cognate greek description or translation of the Hebrew original text
    "Son of" was always used to denote someone having the characteristics of something- think James and John being called "sons of thunder" - they had the characteristics of thunder; boisterous and loud but they were not thunder itself.
    This also reveals Christ's role in the creation - being present Christ would have helped to create all the angels so while Satan is a son of God, he is also properly a "son of the morning star;" not prefiguring Christ or making way for him, but having some of the characteristics as the "shining one" who was the head of the Heavenly worship host originally
    The word for Venus in Revelation is "orthoinos" which is always and only translated as morning star/Venus. So Christ is revealing that He is the one true "morning star," the savior.
    So I am not saying Jonathon is wrong and I am not saying the Catholic church is wrong. What I am saying is that I certainly don't want to be the one saying "Whats up, Lou?" When Christ returns, thinking that it is an acceptable or even theologically correct application of the word.

    • @erri4433
      @erri4433 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Interesting comment but I cant help but love the irony at the end where you spell his name “Jonathon” while talking about getting names right lol

    • @nawdude4292
      @nawdude4292 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      All that and in the end Christ is never coming cuz he was just a man with no link to the supernatural.

    • @BermondsayBattler
      @BermondsayBattler 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      ​@erri4433 lol sorry I am a new listener of his and didn't realize that 😅

    • @user-ex2bo6ub4g
      @user-ex2bo6ub4g หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Thank you for explaining that, I never understood “son of” so I kinda just let it go in one ear and out the other. Most helpful thank you! 😊

    • @BermondsayBattler
      @BermondsayBattler หลายเดือนก่อน

      ​@user-ex2bo6ub4g you're very welcome! It's so nice to have a chance to share what I've learned

  • @ilzitek2419
    @ilzitek2419 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I appreciate your wisdom and knowledge.

  • @cathmhaoil
    @cathmhaoil 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Johnathan makes a very important point in this piece about the role of Aaron as spokesperson NOT of his own ideas, but as spokesperson for Moses who is 'god' to him as God is God to Moses. In other words the priest does not have authority himself if he departs from his role as spokes person for the higher authority. When Aaron tried to usurp such authority for himself he creates an idol for the people and in doing so removes them from a right relationship with God. Could this idea also be applied to the case where a priest choses his interpretation of the sacred Word at the consecration and its sequence? If he substitutes 'all' for 'many' or 'cup' for 'chalice' he is taking himself out from under the authority structure and presenting an idol for the people to worship rather than the revelation of God Himself.

  • @OrthoGeorge
    @OrthoGeorge 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Glory to God!

  • @alexandereggleston8893
    @alexandereggleston8893 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    Leaning into the dark side of the force with the Sith robes

  • @Raphsophomes
    @Raphsophomes 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +12

    I imagine this is how your soul and ego begin to function after you enter Gods servive through baptism. Your soul begins to communicate things to you, and its your job as an ego to speak it and convey it or act on it. Thats kind of what i imagine the holy spirit is. The holy spirit isn't a system or a philosophy or even the bible or church or any of that. So in this sense i think the church nowadays is kind of missing this tactile direct interface with the holy Spirit. We talk about it, we pretend we know what it is and that we live through it, we pretend and sometimes lie or exaggerate it's presence despite us being blind to it, but we never truly fallow it.
    I wonder if we fear losing our tradition so much that we ignore the call of the holy Spirit. Its a lack of faith. I believe our traditions will he reinforced and brought back from the dead if we stop clinging to it and trying to make it stiff and brittle, like a taxidermy animal.

    • @larryjake7783
      @larryjake7783 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

      He, not it, and I don't mean to be pedantic but it's important to understand the personal relationship he will have with you when he conveys things to you.

    • @connorohare229
      @connorohare229 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

      I ironically went through this process as an atheist
      I started with a very 2D fundamentalist Christianity that took everything literally with no awareness of the concept of 'meta' or the transcendental
      Then after realizing I would be lying to myself if I kept an arbitrary dogma that was easily challenged by evidence, I finally caved in to atheism.
      I began becoming more open and aware of things evangelical Christians wouldn't be comfortable with such as evolutionary biology and the history of the Bible as a book that would obviously disprove the idea that the book has never been changed or altered.
      But then something strange happened. My house was smoke damaged and out of it I learned about the concept of 'meta'.
      After learning everything from my atheistic phase and apply meta awareness (being able to see the binding transcendental reality above our material reality). I couldn't call myself an atheist anymore, I saw the LOGOS and how it connects to all creation as Romans would say.
      Though the books aren't perfect, the transcendental thesis statements are because reality has confirmed it. Man does have a 'fallen nature' we do need salvation from God because God IS objective reality!
      It's insane and I'm trying my best to make sense of it all with a coherent epistemology that takes into account the material IS of reality to the transcendental SHOULD of God Himself.
      Jesus Christ IS the synthesis of the material IS and SHOULD simultaneously. The WORD made flesh! I still have plenty of struggles in making sense, but have faith that the God of objective reality will help those that seek Him.

  • @acaydia2982
    @acaydia2982 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

    Thank you for doing this. I hear so much ignorance about this.

  • @alexaugustynski3620
    @alexaugustynski3620 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    I enjoy your videos. Blessings.

  • @davidpoulin6536
    @davidpoulin6536 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Venus Williams and Serena Williams is great representation of what happened in the tennis world

  • @aplcc323
    @aplcc323 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Christ is King! He is the way, the truth and the life. He is the light! Gid bless us all!

  • @Jerry-vz4ix
    @Jerry-vz4ix 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Thank you Jonathan.

  • @cbasallie
    @cbasallie 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    We actually don’t need to over think it. Some people call Baal and Molech “god” as in “THE god”. It doesn’t mean that the Creator of the Universe is on par with Baal. It’s just humans that are using language to equate things that should not be equated

  • @arosalesmusic
    @arosalesmusic 27 วันที่ผ่านมา

    I would love for you to interview Dr Bernardo Kastrup

  • @richardswatton6702
    @richardswatton6702 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Dear Jonathan, great videos i've been watching for a while. when I have time I would like do one of your courses at the Peterson Academy. Symbolism and the uses of it, are of course, many and varied. when linked to the Neoplatonic work of theurgy, it becomes sacred. then its mystical uses, sufic practices, (the interzone and work of Corbin) , its occult uses but also but not least astrology (not of the commercial type) . I mean, of course, astrology in the deepest aspect of its uses particularly the sacred arts of divination - guidance to the Good - and in when used in alignment with transformational practices such as the lectio and Jungian work. one of the great lights of astrology', and astrology's association with the work of the soul, Dr Geoffrey Cornelius recently passed away unfortunately but his work continues in those of us following this line of symbolic work. anyway I wanted to ask you if you know much about this particular use or astrology. Richard

  • @mfoley92
    @mfoley92 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Well said.

  • @sean2662
    @sean2662 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    10:50 It's like a portion of the platonic one that has been differentiated being ignorant of the conditions that give rise to its existence until it experiences its dissolution back into everything and nothing. Or something.

    • @alexandereggleston8893
      @alexandereggleston8893 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Just like the relationship of the dominant and tonic in music!
      G7 yields to no one 😂
      Except for the one who is
      C Major😂

  • @irodjetson
    @irodjetson 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    all medium of communication are polysemic, a medium is in the "middle" (which is what medium means) a medium is not the beginning nor the end thus it has that ambivalent capacity of point to one or other thing, the word "READ" can point to reading in the past or the present, so the word itself when written by itself can point to either reality, the word BAT can point to an animal or a wooden or metal club for baseball, the medium of communication is acting as something that has the capacity to carry things through from one end to the other, but what is at each end is not the medium but the reality the medium is pointing to, and this can change, mediums tend to gain a kind of "univocity" when the culture has fixated a specific meaning to that medium which is the case of the word Lucifer (light bearer).

  • @thiagonunes4294
    @thiagonunes4294 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    The time is ripe for a video on astrological symbolism

  • @MrSeanwarman
    @MrSeanwarman 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

    "a steering wheel is a small Lucifer" 😸

    • @alphabeta8284
      @alphabeta8284 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

      make a t shirt out of this

  • @cmartsolf
    @cmartsolf 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    It’s like how the word angel can mean both good and evil. Just as a brother can be good or evil, like Aaron. Looks like you’ve been reading the Life of Moses again :)

  • @Alethophoros
    @Alethophoros 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    While it is true that the word "lucifer" means "morning star" in Latin, this does not mean that every mention of a morning star in Scripture is a reference to Christ. Remember, Scripture tells us that Satan comes as an "angel of light," and therefore at times he passes himself off as the Morning Star, that is Christ. Scripture acknowledges this pattern by assigning Satan the messianic term "morning star" in a mocking manner.
    Because the phrase "morning star" (or lucifer) is used both as a description of Christ and of Satan, we must rely on the context of each use to help us determine the meaning. The rules for proper interpretation of scripture require that the context drive our understanding of the meaning of a single word; a single word doesn not drive our understanding of the context.
    In Isaiah 14:12, we read:
    Is. 14:12 “How you have fallen from heaven,
    O star of the morning, son of the dawn!
    You have been cut down to the earth,
    You who have weakened the nations!

    In the Latin Vulgate translation, the word for "star of the morning" in Isaiah 14:12 is the word "lucifer." Who is Isaiah describing in v.12? To answer that question, we must consider the entire context of Isaiah 14. As we look at that chapter, we find abundant evidence that the entire chapter is describing Satan's fall.
    For example, Isaiah 14 also calls this individual the "king of Babylon" (v.4), which is a reference to Satan and never Christ. Furthermore, this person is welcomed into Sheol to lie on a bed of maggots (v.11), which is not something prepared for Christ. Also, in v.14 Lucifer is accused of weakening the nations (not something Christ did), and in v.20 he is accused of slaying his people (not something Christ did). Simply put, it is impossible to conclude from the context of Isaiah 14 that Lucifer is a reference to Christ. We must conclude it refers to Satan.
    In summary, we must guide our understanding of the word lucifer by the context in which it appears. In Isaiah 14, the context clearly shows this word used to describe Satan. On the othe hand, 2 Peter is clearly using the term to describe Christ, as you pointed out. There is nothing surprising nor troubling about the Bible using the same word to refer to two different people or concepts.

  • @TheHouseOfBards
    @TheHouseOfBards 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Very insightful

  • @midnightblue3285
    @midnightblue3285 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    He is changing the origin story with false religion version of it and with submission of slavery

  • @Shotzeethegamer
    @Shotzeethegamer 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Looking healthy 🎉

  • @ammarelsawi8267
    @ammarelsawi8267 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Thank you my rising sign is Sagittarius

  • @cjork4999
    @cjork4999 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    thank you. so helpful :)

  • @fritzco55
    @fritzco55 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    The King James version distinguishes differences between titles of Satan/Lucifer and Jesus. It doesn't call Lucifer "the Morning star", it calls him the "son of the morning". Lucifer means "Bringer of light". The name is not found in the Greek or Hebrew, but rather the Latin. There are many that believe a lot of the newer versions of the Bible are satanic - because if people are allowed to twist the scripture, this is the same nature as the serpent in the garden. "Are Lucifer and Jesus really so different?" "You won't surely die".

  • @pirnack
    @pirnack 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Seems like metonymy is a way of being a messenger for the exemplar to which it refers. "The hand of God" is a metonymy of His power, and is also a herald/lucifer of His strength.
    In other words, the religious symbol is lucifer, but the literary term is metonymy

  • @behailumulugeta5062
    @behailumulugeta5062 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Me and my wife love what u are saying🍺

  • @AlexLGagnon
    @AlexLGagnon 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

    Thank you Jonathan. Every time I hear Jordan Peterson say "luciferian intellect", and he says it a lot, I'm a bit triggered. I take it he means arrogant, prideful, self-serving intellect.

    • @jeremycancelo9113
      @jeremycancelo9113 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Well... He's referring to the fact that we shouldn't allow our intellect to rationalize our way away from what's highest or what's right. I'm guilty of that, as well. If you're triggered, it's probably cus I recognize that attribute in yourself...

  • @Cyrus_II
    @Cyrus_II 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Jesus' ministry began right as St John went to prison. In a way he went to prison and died to not attract any more attention to himself and become a distraction. Jesus himself had to die as well.
    Like you said, It seems like a proper morning star has to die at some point. It will die either way, because when the sun comes it won't be visible anymore. The question is how will it die.

    • @barrycavett8977
      @barrycavett8977 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Yes Jesus began his ministry after being baptism by St John, who being the forerunner of Christ, also died before Him to go preach the coming of Jesus into Hades.

  • @HolographicSweater
    @HolographicSweater 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    after you said a steering wheel is a lucifer it made me think of the famous artwork by marcel duchamp

  • @justice576
    @justice576 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    In some ways, the concepts discussed by the early fathers and Pageau are nearly the same to what gnostics believed about creation.

    • @hakooplayplay3212
      @hakooplayplay3212 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +8

      Gnostics consider matter to be evil and opposed to the spiritual realm. It's nothing like that in Christianity, God made matter and saw it as good and become a man and now forever has a human flesh. Jesus defies human nature and heals it, not condemns it or destroys as the cage of the soul. When we talk about fighting flesh, we talk about evil desires, not flesh itself.

    • @justice576
      @justice576 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@hakooplayplay3212I'm sorry but gnostic beliefs cannot be utterly summed as just the belief that "matter is evil and in opposition to the spiritual realm." It is much more complex than that. Not to mention, there are a variety of competing beliefs and views within the early gnostic movement.

    • @hakooplayplay3212
      @hakooplayplay3212 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      @@justice576 in every believe system there are some list of key points. I just pointed to this one because it's obviously opposed to Christianity. Apostles and their close disciples all writes against gnosticism as one of dominant worldview of that days

  • @lynchcreekmuzzy5759
    @lynchcreekmuzzy5759 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Why is the Catholic Vatican in Italy the shape of a serpents head?; Even the inside looks like the mouth. Then throw in the background, on stage, is a statue of what looks like a fallen angel.

  • @jonboatwright7777
    @jonboatwright7777 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Excellent, Jonathan. BTW are we following the thought that Lucifer and the Satan are not one and the same re : LOS?

  • @artfabrique
    @artfabrique 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    I wonder if Plato cave allegory uses the same structure - artificial light vs sunlight

  • @user-og7eh8pv8h
    @user-og7eh8pv8h 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

    So how does rebellion position itself in the playing field? Rebellion is not per definition evil.

    • @K-A5
      @K-A5 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Hmm..children rebel to push and find the boundaries of their parents and community. Of course adults rebel against adults and systems too. Perhaps rebellion is a form or prelude to wisdom, wisdom being context and understanding of where things belong and where they begin and end?

    • @user-og7eh8pv8h
      @user-og7eh8pv8h 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@K-A5 awesome extrapolation of the child exploring meaning within an undefined playing field. However; rebelling against unjust (for example genocidal) systems. Attuning to Gods harmonious potentiality for order can mean to steer the ship against the current?

    • @onemoresmartone
      @onemoresmartone 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

      Rebelling against the good is never good, by definition.

    • @user-og7eh8pv8h
      @user-og7eh8pv8h 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      @@onemoresmartone that is true. The Good however is a transcendental.

    • @villiestephanov984
      @villiestephanov984 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

      ​@@K-A5 : the golden calf from Exodus ends up in Colossians and in the book of Revelation, John saw the bronze feet of the serpent of Numbers. I have no idea what exactly Daniel was explaining..

  • @muadek
    @muadek 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    Now how does this play into Venus being the symbol for the feminine?

  • @dylansaus
    @dylansaus 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    What do you think of the movie "Fehorlofia"?
    So much symbolism some is obvious but others more hidden. Very interesting images and story telling

  • @Cookiedon15
    @Cookiedon15 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

    When I read that passage of Isaiah sometime ago, I thought "wait, couldn't this be a reference to Jesus?" Jesus talked about how he wouldn't bring peace, but war (I'll have to find those passages)

  • @sbenkimmie9579
    @sbenkimmie9579 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    yeah i fear for ppl who try to copy me because the magic is in the magic

    • @sbenkimmie9579
      @sbenkimmie9579 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      it really helps you to understand where you came from and where you are going... also like you feel at home but you find out there are many cockroaches and rats... wtf...

    • @sbenkimmie9579
      @sbenkimmie9579 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

      like for example, the js kinda suck right? imagine them but they grew supernatural and wised up ...

  • @anatomicallymodernhuman5175
    @anatomicallymodernhuman5175 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Orthobro up in here defending Roman Catholics, and we Presbybros nodding in agreement 😂

  • @lawrencemikesell104
    @lawrencemikesell104 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    @JonathanPageau, is this somehow tied in with Matthew 12:22-31. If so, could you bring some light on how?

  • @LJ7000
    @LJ7000 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

    Is symbology taking that much precedence over everything else? I'm with you 9 times out of 10 but this video was a real struggle for me. Maybe I need to re-watch.

    • @lightoftabor
      @lightoftabor 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      No, it's not just you. There's something off about this one

    • @LJ7000
      @LJ7000 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      @@lightoftabor He seems less clear than usual about this, a bit all over the place, the logic isn't really holding together.

  • @AlphaOmegaApe
    @AlphaOmegaApe 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    In thinking that Jesus is Lucifer, Jesus rose up but then accepted his fall, trusting that god would make him, the morning star, rise again.

    • @petifogger2340
      @petifogger2340 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      God* very important to capitalize God’s name

    • @notaboutit3565
      @notaboutit3565 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      24:19
      It’s the humility of Christ that separates him as the True Morning Star.

  • @ryanteuscher7996
    @ryanteuscher7996 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

    This is masonic interpretation.

  • @Star_Biscuit
    @Star_Biscuit 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    So if I'm understanding correctly, Lucifer isn't so much a person or character, but more like a role that can be played and applied?

    • @TheDarkPrimordial
      @TheDarkPrimordial 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      It seems so! It reminds me a bit of the etymological origin of the word 'satan', which to my understanding is Judaic in origin and was a title given to something or someone 'who opposes', but was not definitively evil like we see in modern, Christian interpretations.

    • @sk2591
      @sk2591 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Satan is an actual being who has angels. He was the brother of Christ but choose evil, so then was fallen. He lives outside the realm of God. He seeks to use people to do evil, since he does not have a body. His whole purpose is to destroy the Kingdom of God.

  • @AquariusGate
    @AquariusGate 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    It is always worth reminding ourselves that in past times lives were profoundly religious. Anguish was not a great struggle beyond the physical challenges.
    Our lives are not the same we have placid lives looking to see where Gid and religion fits in. Our profound experience is the spiritual anguish that festers unspoken.
    We can all easily understand that there is a spirit in which things done or a by the book method. The spirit and letter if the law are not the same. If the sprite of the law is applies a few small discrepancies in letters can be called an indulgence, an oversight. As long as nothing tips the scales of justice the letters of law are if no consequence.
    If the law is applied by the book and letter but things have not worked out in the spirit of the law, this is not called justice.
    It seems divine justice that a species with full reason sees no reason to seek God. A plague of profound anguish accompanying the steady corruption no-one speaks up about, or resists with passion. Turned from proud women and men to a placid herd crowded to edge if oblivion and abandonment.
    God isn't found in books and words but in the living word, how everything reads in the moment.

  • @janetstahle9307
    @janetstahle9307 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    10:07 John tha Baptist was a messenger too, a morning star for a morning star?

  • @piratekingreviews8493
    @piratekingreviews8493 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Is that switch to the opponent and separating from participation is the same thing happening in romantic relationships between men and women. Men announced separation or independence from god and now women to men and perhaps children to parents

  • @constantinekarampelas9954
    @constantinekarampelas9954 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Compare this to what Ammon Hillman has been saying as of late.....Pageau, you got a voice, defend the faith.