I have seen numerous videos showing a sled with the raised edge at the back. That never made sense to me. Your way is the way common sense told me it should be done. Thanks for explaining!
Keaton - have used a very similar sled design and card shims for several years. Works well, but I've always fed with the sled lip at the back and sure enough, the board does tend to slip forward on successive passes. So thanks for showing me I've been doing it wrong all this time. Also agree with the simplicity of the sled itself - there are lots of videos on Y-T showing highly engineered sleds with multiple wedges, stops, hold-downs etc which look like you need a grizzly bear to lift back and forth. Keep it simple, stupid! Many thanks.
We're all always learning aren't we? I did it wrong with the same problem for a while until I realized it was wrong, but I agree on the over engineered sleds. Simple is best and hauling this sled with a 5 foot board is heavy enough!
Thanks!! I have been jointing this way for a long time now and I notice other with the block at the back ? I and though I was wrong and it made me think about it again
Thanks so much for helping me understand the dynamics of the cutter and rollers, and how it makes sense to have the “fence” on the leading edge. But here’s my (probably dumb) question; I see how the shims on the sides work… makes total sense… but assuming there is cup facing down on the sled, how do you shim under the workpiece for a lateral versus linear cup? In other words if you look at a board from the end and you see a cup with the concave surface downward on your sled, how you shim under that cup to keep it from compressing in the planer? The end at the back would be easy enough to shim, but what about on the leading edge and in the middle?
First off, not dumb at all. The way I shim a cup is by putting the shims down first and then placing the board on top. You can push down on the board to see if it flexes and if not it's good. If the shim is too big it'll raise the board up and cause it to rock. And to guess the size of the shim you can shim the end of the board and use ones that are the right thickness for the end in the middle. Hopefully that makes sense
Good idea. My smaller one, still 46 inches, was way lighter, but it bowed. This new one I'm storing flat on the wall so it hopefully won't bow again, but I needed a 5 foot sled for the project I'm working on. It is a beast, especially when loaded with a 5 foot 8/4 walnut board!
I do like to use scraps of paper. Playing cards would be a little slippery though right? They also might be a bit wide for this operation, but when spacing inset doors they are awesome to use
Still need to get my first planer, but I’ve been wondering about a sled with some clamps might mitigate the shims. So picture a the same sled you built, but have a moveable fence in the rear that could “clamp” the board to the front fence. I would think if the clamp pressure was tight enough, the rollers couldn’t compress the board, and it would mitigate the need for shims. Hoping to try it out once I get a planer.
That would work to some degree but you'll still need to shim. The rollers on the planer push down so hard they'll flatten the board as it goes through the cutter head. But that's a good idea to hold the board in place to make it easier to operate
No, you still need to shim. Especially if the board is long and has a twist otherwise it will just wobble in the middle. Fence either end is fine though, adds some security.
See, I'm not sure I agree with this. The rollers do pull the board through but the planer blades are going the opposite direction and can easily throw a board back at you. So with this way, you're relying on your rollers to be stronger than the motor's torque and blades digging into your board. That's why the traditional way has the fence on the back of the sled. Always better to have the sled "backwards" and use hot glue. Makes it way safer in the long run. But that's just my two cents! (And most other woodworkers)
The thing is you are always relying on the rollers to stop the cutter from kicking the board back so this is not different from the way you would typically operate a planer. The force of the rollers is working in your favor to keep the board moving forward and the shims in place.
@@keatonbeyerwoodworking that's a good point! What is stopping the work piece from shooting out using the planer normally? haha What about a drum sander? Same concept right?! 🤔
@@Voicesofjake the rollers of the planer keep the workpiece moving forward. It can shoot back if your piece is too short and can't engage at least one roller, which is why they usually say min length of 12 inches. A drum sander has the base that is sand paper and works as a conveyor belt to move the piece forward. Btw, thanks for the comments and finding my videos. I've seen your videos, they always make me laugh!
@@keatonbeyerwoodworking I just always thought with such force from the planer blades, you'd want a back cleat and not front. But it makes sense! But also the other way too sorta.. haha I just ran a warped cherry board through my drum sander and I had the cleat on the back. I think if I didn't, it would've pushed it off the sled. Since the sled was slipping on the conveyor belt too. (Fixed that with some spray rubber on the bottom of the melamine.) But that's great to hear! Thanks dude! I'm really getting into wood working now and love learning and watching all the recommended videos TH-cam throws at me! haha
If you mean the excess melamine I picked some up off a job where I replaced some melamine built ins, but I've also bought it for making concrete table tops and used the scraps off that. But any sheet good will work, MDF or plywood as long as the plywood is flat and not warped. I'd stay away from any type of sheathing plywood because that stuff isn't super flat or consistent.
Thanks for the tip, but I have a question. Most times when I'm feeding a board (doesn't matter if it's flat or not) the board starts to turn before it's finished. What am I doing wrong? Thank you.
Some boards will do that. If the wood is more dense on one side (say one side has less dense sapwood) or one side is a little thicker the machine will cut faster on the less dense/thinner side and the board will start to turn. Or say the planer hits a knot the knot will slow the machine down but particularly in that spot and cause the board to shift. On the out feed side you can help guide the board and keep it aligned as it exits the machine.
I have found that with heavy boards I can usually go without glue. However, with smaller, lighter boards the shims would sometimes vibrate out of position. I use hot glue to stabilize these shims.
That definitely makes sense. The biggest thing is to turn the sled around and put that fence in front and not behind the board. But I agree, this works well for bigger boards and glue is good for the small ones.
please help me understand why the stop should be in the front. the cutters are running towards the back so it would push the board back if it were going to slide right? the cutters aren't pushing it towards that stop. is it for the rollers? the rollers would be going forward but I just thought you were supposed to put the stop opposite the way the cutters would push it. help me understand please.
The rollers pull the board forward. If the fence is in the back then the rollers will pull the board right off the sled. That's why you see other people on TH-cam use hot glue to secure the board to the sled because the fence isn't doing anything. My method uses the fence properly. Another way to think about it, when running a board through without a sled the board doesn't have any fence in the back but it still moves forward through the machine. The rollers resist the cutter so the board doesn't kick back. The sled isn't hitting the rollers so it needs a way to move forward with the board, hence the fence in the front to drag the sled with the board. Hope that helps!
Also, why it’s important to take fine passes. If you try to take too much in a single pass the cutters will almost certainly push the board away from the stop bar.
Yes it does, you'd need an 8 foot sled for it to set your shims. Having a flat panel like this wouldn't be the best at that length either because it will bow when you pick it up so I'd suggest using hot glue in that instance to glue everything in place to help keep the jig flat as you move it and the shims in place. At 8 feet the jig and board will be pretty heavy and hard to control so you might want a second person to help you out. Mine's 5 feet which is unruly but manageable, I'd prefer shorter but I needed it that length for a project.
Usually when hot glue is used, a fence is too. The hot glue plays the role of your shims, but won't fall out. Some use wedges locked in with hot glue, but some just use the glue.
The major point is to put the fence in the front. I usually see the fences in the back which really isn't doing much. If you want to hot glue the shims so they don't move that's great. I find the glue slows down this already slow process
At the 6:00 mark I showed the board after it was flattened and mentioned it's ready to be flipped over and run through the planer to flatten/parallel the opposite side.
Try it out. It's way faster this way, especially if you're brave enough to go without hot glue to hold the shims in. It does make it trickier moving the board and sled around, especially if the board is big, but man is it easier and nicer to not deal with hot glue
That dad grunt getting up from a kneeling position at the start of the video was on point
Ha! That's how you know it's an authentic video
I have seen numerous videos showing a sled with the raised edge at the back. That never made sense to me. Your way is the way common sense told me it should be done. Thanks for explaining!
Totally, those fences in the back make sense on a jointer or table saw where person power pushed the wood through, but not on a planer
Exactly what I was looking for 😀
Board in front makes perfect sense. Thanks
Happy to help. It makes this process so much easier and faster
Keaton - have used a very similar sled design and card shims for several years. Works well, but I've always fed with the sled lip at the back and sure enough, the board does tend to slip forward on successive passes. So thanks for showing me I've been doing it wrong all this time. Also agree with the simplicity of the sled itself - there are lots of videos on Y-T showing highly engineered sleds with multiple wedges, stops, hold-downs etc which look like you need a grizzly bear to lift back and forth. Keep it simple, stupid! Many thanks.
We're all always learning aren't we? I did it wrong with the same problem for a while until I realized it was wrong, but I agree on the over engineered sleds. Simple is best and hauling this sled with a 5 foot board is heavy enough!
Thank you
Thank you! Doing floating stair steps and I am new at all of this and you made it perfectly clear how to do it! My frustration is gone! Cheers!
That's great! Awesome to hear and good luck on your stairs!
That’s why pretty clever. Thank you for the tip.
Thanks for sharing! We’re going to have to build one of these jigs soon! Great work!
Thanks! I was using it last night and I realized I too need to make a new, smaller one. Lugging around a 5 foot stretch of melamine quickly gets old!
Thanks!! I have been jointing this way for a long time now and I notice other with the block at the back ? I and though I was wrong and it made me think about it again
Thanks for your video! Super clear and informative.
Thanks so much for helping me understand the dynamics of the cutter and rollers, and how it makes sense to have the “fence” on the leading edge.
But here’s my (probably dumb) question; I see how the shims on the sides work… makes total sense… but assuming there is cup facing down on the sled, how do you shim under the workpiece for a lateral versus linear cup? In other words if you look at a board from the end and you see a cup with the concave surface downward on your sled, how you shim under that cup to keep it from compressing in the planer? The end at the back would be easy enough to shim, but what about on the leading edge and in the middle?
First off, not dumb at all. The way I shim a cup is by putting the shims down first and then placing the board on top. You can push down on the board to see if it flexes and if not it's good. If the shim is too big it'll raise the board up and cause it to rock. And to guess the size of the shim you can shim the end of the board and use ones that are the right thickness for the end in the middle. Hopefully that makes sense
Great video! I have a 30” sled and then a larger one since that melamine or MDF can be heavy.
Good idea. My smaller one, still 46 inches, was way lighter, but it bowed. This new one I'm storing flat on the wall so it hopefully won't bow again, but I needed a 5 foot sled for the project I'm working on. It is a beast, especially when loaded with a 5 foot 8/4 walnut board!
Best tip for you, sir. Ditch the shims and get a bunch of old playing cards. I use them for shims, spacers, etc..,,
I do like to use scraps of paper. Playing cards would be a little slippery though right? They also might be a bit wide for this operation, but when spacing inset doors they are awesome to use
Still need to get my first planer, but I’ve been wondering about a sled with some clamps might mitigate the shims.
So picture a the same sled you built, but have a moveable fence in the rear that could “clamp” the board to the front fence. I would think if the clamp pressure was tight enough, the rollers couldn’t compress the board, and it would mitigate the need for shims.
Hoping to try it out once I get a planer.
That would work to some degree but you'll still need to shim. The rollers on the planer push down so hard they'll flatten the board as it goes through the cutter head.
But that's a good idea to hold the board in place to make it easier to operate
No, you still need to shim. Especially if the board is long and has a twist otherwise it will just wobble in the middle. Fence either end is fine though, adds some security.
Good video 😊
See, I'm not sure I agree with this. The rollers do pull the board through but the planer blades are going the opposite direction and can easily throw a board back at you. So with this way, you're relying on your rollers to be stronger than the motor's torque and blades digging into your board. That's why the traditional way has the fence on the back of the sled. Always better to have the sled "backwards" and use hot glue. Makes it way safer in the long run. But that's just my two cents! (And most other woodworkers)
The thing is you are always relying on the rollers to stop the cutter from kicking the board back so this is not different from the way you would typically operate a planer. The force of the rollers is working in your favor to keep the board moving forward and the shims in place.
@@keatonbeyerwoodworking that's a good point! What is stopping the work piece from shooting out using the planer normally? haha What about a drum sander? Same concept right?! 🤔
@@Voicesofjake the rollers of the planer keep the workpiece moving forward. It can shoot back if your piece is too short and can't engage at least one roller, which is why they usually say min length of 12 inches. A drum sander has the base that is sand paper and works as a conveyor belt to move the piece forward. Btw, thanks for the comments and finding my videos. I've seen your videos, they always make me laugh!
@@keatonbeyerwoodworking I just always thought with such force from the planer blades, you'd want a back cleat and not front. But it makes sense! But also the other way too sorta.. haha I just ran a warped cherry board through my drum sander and I had the cleat on the back. I think if I didn't, it would've pushed it off the sled. Since the sled was slipping on the conveyor belt too. (Fixed that with some spray rubber on the bottom of the melamine.)
But that's great to hear! Thanks dude! I'm really getting into wood working now and love learning and watching all the recommended videos TH-cam throws at me! haha
Thx. Also a good idea to use a pencil to scribble over the board so you know for sure the planet has got to all parts of the surface. 👍
Great tip!
Where do you get the hose for wood scraps
If you mean the excess melamine I picked some up off a job where I replaced some melamine built ins, but I've also bought it for making concrete table tops and used the scraps off that. But any sheet good will work, MDF or plywood as long as the plywood is flat and not warped. I'd stay away from any type of sheathing plywood because that stuff isn't super flat or consistent.
Thanks for the tip, but I have a question. Most times when I'm feeding a board (doesn't matter if it's flat or not) the board starts to turn before it's finished. What am I doing wrong? Thank you.
Some boards will do that. If the wood is more dense on one side (say one side has less dense sapwood) or one side is a little thicker the machine will cut faster on the less dense/thinner side and the board will start to turn. Or say the planer hits a knot the knot will slow the machine down but particularly in that spot and cause the board to shift. On the out feed side you can help guide the board and keep it aligned as it exits the machine.
@@keatonbeyerwoodworking Thank you
My first look at your thumbnail here was oh my God, that's a young Norm Abram!
Ha! I like that. I was just learning from a Norm video the other day!
@@keatonbeyerwoodworkingWith glasses a lá Norm, you be a dead ringer!
I have found that with heavy boards I can usually go without glue. However, with smaller, lighter boards the shims would sometimes vibrate out of position. I use hot glue to stabilize these shims.
That definitely makes sense. The biggest thing is to turn the sled around and put that fence in front and not behind the board. But I agree, this works well for bigger boards and glue is good for the small ones.
please help me understand why the stop should be in the front. the cutters are running towards the back so it would push the board back if it were going to slide right? the cutters aren't pushing it towards that stop. is it for the rollers? the rollers would be going forward but I just thought you were supposed to put the stop opposite the way the cutters would push it. help me understand please.
The rollers pull the board forward. If the fence is in the back then the rollers will pull the board right off the sled. That's why you see other people on TH-cam use hot glue to secure the board to the sled because the fence isn't doing anything. My method uses the fence properly.
Another way to think about it, when running a board through without a sled the board doesn't have any fence in the back but it still moves forward through the machine. The rollers resist the cutter so the board doesn't kick back. The sled isn't hitting the rollers so it needs a way to move forward with the board, hence the fence in the front to drag the sled with the board.
Hope that helps!
Also, why it’s important to take fine passes. If you try to take too much in a single pass the cutters will almost certainly push the board away from the stop bar.
Does this work with longer boards? Like around 8 feet?
Yes it does, you'd need an 8 foot sled for it to set your shims. Having a flat panel like this wouldn't be the best at that length either because it will bow when you pick it up so I'd suggest using hot glue in that instance to glue everything in place to help keep the jig flat as you move it and the shims in place. At 8 feet the jig and board will be pretty heavy and hard to control so you might want a second person to help you out. Mine's 5 feet which is unruly but manageable, I'd prefer shorter but I needed it that length for a project.
Usually when hot glue is used, a fence is too. The hot glue plays the role of your shims, but won't fall out. Some use wedges locked in with hot glue, but some just use the glue.
The major point is to put the fence in the front. I usually see the fences in the back which really isn't doing much. If you want to hot glue the shims so they don't move that's great. I find the glue slows down this already slow process
@@keatonbeyerwoodworking You are completely right about the position and need for the fence.
If its this easy, gota try this to see for myself.
It is. You can do it. It's easier this way than using a jointer for wide boards too
This is awesome, I don't want to buy a jointer.
Totally, and you can joint boards wider than you could with a jointer anyway. I run 8+ inch wide boards with the sled all the time.
Either I missed it or you didnt show the flat/planed side. ?????
At the 6:00 mark I showed the board after it was flattened and mentioned it's ready to be flipped over and run through the planer to flatten/parallel the opposite side.
Hey, just want to let you know you’ve got organic vapor cartridges in your respirator :)
Totally did. I have since switched to P100s. Thanks for looking out for me, we don't always know everything :)
Are you sure that planer makes climb cuts?
Just got it, it's the feed rollers.
Yep. The rollers pull the board in and past the cutter. Hence fence in the back is useless
@@keatonbeyerwoodworking I've sure wasted a lot of hot glue.
I'm laughing at myself for doing it backwards for so long. Thanks!
Try it out. It's way faster this way, especially if you're brave enough to go without hot glue to hold the shims in. It does make it trickier moving the board and sled around, especially if the board is big, but man is it easier and nicer to not deal with hot glue
Well ..if anyone has tried planing on a sled finds out real fast the fence needs to be in front...it's common sense really...
And yet, every other TH-cam video on the topic shows it being done with the fence in the back.
I use hot glue on boards that are really twisted.
That does work. I find shimming to be enough but hot glue does help hold everything in place and is good for a little extra security.