Senior systems analyst here, although I haven't looked at the specifics of the two devices relating to this, this is almost certainly going to be a battery related issue. Both of these motherboards will be expecting to be connected to a specific battery size and voltage that almost certainly differs between the two models. While they can in theory boot up with either battery, Apple will have most likely locked the power requirement to be within a very specific range and as such anything out of that will not power up.
most times apple even lock the display to work only with it's original MoBo... idk, I know touch Id and security things but why I shouldn't be able to boot an OS and at least try things like old macs
@killerhakie whilst the model may be the same from a certain perspective, there will be actual differences from a technical standpoint internally. It's also likely apple have serialised the parts, meaning if serial numbers do not match for certain components, it will not boot or work. They even do this with their airpods max ear cups... it's stupid and anticonsumer
@@killerhakie Just because Apple uses the same model number does not imply that there aren't sometimes significant differences inside different machines. For example, Apple used the same model number A1286 for all of its non-Retina 15-inch MacBook Pro models from 2009 through 2012. Yet, in many cases these machines have incompatible logic boards, graphics chips, display assemblies, and so forth.
@@allthenamesrtook Yep. If you try to change a single chip on the motherboard, it will only stay at 5V instead of 20V and will not boot up. If you tried once to change anything, it will remain like this, even if you try to replace the new chip with the original, functional one, it will not want to boot anymore. Sometimes I get the feeling that we might be smart, but not smarter than Apple.
next test: swap the logic boards for two identical m1's and two identical m2's (m1 to m1 and m2 to m2). see if there are hardware locks on the other components
To anyone who doesn't know: ZIF = zero insertion force. This means that the connector doesn't need to be forced into the slot at all to be seated. These are usually accompanied by some sort of lever to clip down onto the ribbon cable.
Former Apple employee here. iBoot does a simple checksum against the hardware and everything has to match. The M1 SOC knows itself and what technology it's expected to meet,, and it basically wants to make sure the top case/battery/associated electronics say "yes in fact, we also are designed for you -- we have the same number card that matches." This has lots to do with the security of TouchID/Secure Enclave as well -- but mostly it's also for battery safety, to prevent thermal runaways and a smoky MacBook 😉 ... the M2 has a slightly different battery than the M1. One of the first things we teach Apple Store Geniuses.
hey i wanted an advice from you, how much do you expect the m1 macbook air to receive updates. Just an idea cuz you might know how they work. Thanks for reading the comment.😄
@@shenlong7890 Apple usually supports the hardware for approx 5 years after the discontinuation of sale (refurbs don’t count) and the software a bit longer still, somewhere up to 6-8 years. I’d assume the M1 models see updates through 2027.
The M2 changed the way keyboard and trackpad are connected (used to be SPI on the M1). Most likely this is the reason it refuses to boot up in the M1 chassis.
@@cristibaluta Luke broke something else apparently. iFixit did try the same and they managed to get the M2 logic board booting inside the M1 chassis. Trackpad and Keyboard did not work, of course.
@@BilisNegra When I took my Intel MBP apart it wouldn't boot without the bottom case screws in. I know, weirdest thing, but it's true. Bottom case on without screws, wouldn't boot. Put screws in, everything works just fine.
Luke, as an Electronics Engineer (who has performed many maintenance tasks and upgrades on computers over the years) I have to say, you’re crazy; but in a good way! Great video, I hope you get lots of hits for your considerable efforts.
How does an engineer go from theory of math, physics, circuits, electronics, signals, controls, communications, etc. To performing maintenance? Seems like you wasted to your 4 year degree.
It's either a hardware lock or a power issue. The power consumption between the M1 and M2 chips are different so the batteries are going to be designed differently to handle the different loads. It would be interesting to see if that is actually the case
Maybe voltage and ampere of the battery are different. Or the capacitors are different. The M2 has a slightly higher watt consumption with consistent battery lifetime to the m1
I just imagined an alternative universe where Apple offered upgrades, like say you can get your M1 Macbook upgraded to M2 for 500$ but when they introduce major feature revisions you have to do the full upgrade. Because as it stands most people will keep their Mac through maybe 2-4 model iterations before upgrading. The old boards could be refurbished or put into repaired laptops. That could actually be a way to capture a bit of revenue from users who won't spend 1200$+ for the next version. It's a win win
Processor upgrades like that existed in the PowerPC era but they were never that profitable even for 3rd parties that offered them. A couple of companies went out of business and Sonnet just barely hung on.
One possible cause may be that the displays might need different firmware drivers and when you swap out the boards, it is likely that the boards detect an incorrect hardware conf for which it has no firmware and fails to boot
The M series as well as iOS Devices are serialized, meaning there is a gatekeeper within the computer that is loaded with a random group of serials, if one is missing and a new one is installed, it won't work. Same as what happened to the iphone. it's Software related. There is a dedicated chip for this.
that's really weird. I haven't gotten my hands on any m2 machines yet but with the m1 you can get a bare logic board to boot with nothing but the charger plugged in (you can confirm it booted based on the current draw using a usb-c power meter). So you could've started disconnecting things from the board until it would boot. I agree it's most likely the keyboard/trackpad that was the issue, although I also wouldn't be surprised if they did something funny with the battery. Fantastic video and great idea overall, would love a follow-up where you try to find out the culprit
on iPhones they do tie the battery to the logic board with a battery serial number. if you don't go through an authorized apple repair you would loose the battery health monitoring features. Probably something similar.
@@ThatOneGuyGreggers thankfully so far I haven't seen any issues with battery replacement even on newer macbooks. my theory was more that they might've made some small unnecessary change to the battery and therefore given it a new part number, which the other board won't recognize and will therefore refuse to boot. Either way, I wouldn't be too surprised if it's just more Apple serialization BS as usual
I feel like Luke has gotten much more comfortable with being on camera over the years. i see much more of his personality in this video than I would have seen in a video from three years ago. i love watching the channel grow :)
Mutiple componets have their own ids, and i believe the massive amounts of differnt ids may have prevented it from booting too. (Display id, battery, etc.)
It is probably some parts pairing between the logic board and the 1. Display 2. keyboard 3. Trackpad 4. Battery BMS 5. Lid position sensor or some combination of these.
It’s confusing yes but at the same time it’s a simple answer. Apple made their boards to only work with the certain chasis. They did this on purpose just like their phones. This is another example of Apple not accepting right to repair.
I used to work at a UBreakiFix. Every damaged apple device we’ve received, during my presence at least; were brought in due owner neglect and/or the user consecutively depleting the battery to 0% between charge cycles. Withholding battery replacements, I think right to repair is becoming blown out of proportion, maybe even to a Marxist degree. I’ve made an iPhone 6s last for nearly 4 years without it needing repairs. I brought it to Apple for a battery replacement and the tech was shocked by its near mint condition, telling me “we don’t get devices like this.” BUT STILL, God forbid a little personal responsibility…
Right.... in the same way that Intel doesn't accept right to repair because they changed the socket on their 12th gen. I'm not saying Apple loves right to repair... but being able to swap major components from a significantly changed or revised version of a product, that happens to be in the same model line, into an older one is *not* an indication of such, it just isn't.
@@dregenius Socket types will evolve, for example; due to the differing GPIO layout of the next generation chip. And assuming, you're referring to desktop chips, those are typically user accessible. I don't think succeeding intel socket types are a good example of undermining right to repair.
@@Jake-ix1od Yay, a new perspective! 👏🏼 I still wish that they would at least let people do something as simple as _upgrading RAM/storage_ on a whole chonkin' laptop, but that's the limit. Hearing your statement, I do agree that sometimes Right to Repair is exaggerated by a lot of people, to the point that it's become a mere buzzword 😓
@@prayagsuthar9856 Apple plays to their benefit here; Integrating everything reduces manufacturing costs and they'd rather get the money first hand for increased ram/storage. I don't think this approach is that unreasonable. 30 years ago, computers in general were atrociously more expensive when considering inflation. Despite those early computers typically being user upgradable and easily repairable, I don't think they usually reached a level of reliability or a useful life expectancy anywhere near that of what our modern computers can reach. Apple clearly isn't concerned with providing us the capability to increase the usefulness of their machines down the road. However I do think Apple is concerned with providing us long term reliability. That said; just because a computer is reliable doesn't mean it's useful, but at least it wasn't designed to fail. I'm willing to be wrong but that's how I think I understand this shit so far.
Did you place the screws back in before booting? Cause some laptops use screws to complete the circuits in logic board. Also other companies make sure their logic board works only with the original chassis. How? idk. I could very easily find out if i had such devices to play around with and time. I completely love disassembling laptops much more than desktops. Great work.
This video was awesome. I loved the energy and genuine shock when the M2 board didn't boot. There are a few minor component differences and I am sure it was something with initial BIOS load validation or some such nonsense. Either way, extremely entertaining, cheers.
Two options are either voltage or failure of some device. You can try to use the M2 power supply unit (then we will bypass the battery). But I think most likely the "Bios" of a Mac (of a specific generation) is able to work only with a narrow list of hardware - after all, they don't need more.
I’m surprised it didn’t work considering that nearly the entire computer is on that logic board. Also if Apple were to offer an “upgrade” logic board it would still be very expensive since all of the core components are within that single board. It’s more like replacing the computer than “upgrading”.
This is happened by the battery. The newer MacBooks don’t start without a plugged battery. They also don’t start with a wrong battery ID like changing battery’s in iPhones. But in your iPhone you get a message, your MacBook won’t boot.
It looks like Apple has gone to tremendous lengths to make sure people can't just swap parts in these computers making people have to buy a new machine if a part fails or to have Apple fix it for a charge if out of warranty!
Your problem is, you want the thief to have your hardware. Now it doesn't make sense to steal a Mac or iPhone. Even to replace parts and that is great news.
They've had all this time, and yet they've failed to make the MBP in a manner that can be upgraded. Almost 10 years now. And then the company tells us how much they care about the environment....if that were really the case, the logic board or the SSD or CPU would be upgradeable by now. They've had 10 years to make a thin and light laptop which doesn't need to have everything soldered. Does every upgrade really NEED a new display, housing, keyboard, etc which comes with a whole new laptop?
Ex-Genius here. 1. The screw you removed from the heat sink we call it "super screw" 2. The swap didn't work because you don't have access to System Configurator (not to be confused with Apple Configurator). System Configurator is only available through AST2 and must be run on all post 2018 macs that had the MLB replaced.
What this could be useful for is when the M3 MBA13 comes out in October of this year but the 15 inch doesn't come out for another 1 months after that, then a M3 MBA 13 logic board swap into an existing M2 MBA 15 would be a real treat?
It may be that some of the connection points have different pin configurations from the M1 unit to the M2 unit. It would only need to take a few differences to prevent the M2 logic board from working in the M1 unit. Also additionally, the bios microcode might not allow such a change.
macs dont use bios, its the fact that its a different screen, trackpad, whatever assembly that stopped it. its called part out protection so no one, even if they have the mac, they cant steal your data.
It could be that one of the reasons why you made the video, (and why we expected it to work) is because the Space Gray color of the macbook with the M1 is more beautiful than the computer with the M2, So, because you would buy a new one in space gray with m2, when you can move from m1 to m2?
Foam cover over wi-fi antennas is so that if you squeeze / dent the bottom case in your school bag and generally mistreat it, the metal bottom case doesn't short on the wi-fi antenna's causing reduced reception. (I'd guess)
The problem is the serial number check on boot. Every single part has a serial number where is coded on the board. You can only change the component Serial numbers or a Apple Technician must be configuring in the Repair Tool Website from Apple.
Mac OS generally works by doing a scan for expected hardware and checking it can make system calls to it before continuing boot. I’m guessing Apple has made each config SUPER specific. This is as opposed to previous Apple hardware. My 2015 iMac is is composed on 95% the same hardware as my late 2014 iMac. My guess is that the parts on each upgrade for M series macs has, at the very least, slightly different hardware ids My question remains “can this be hacked around?” Here is my experience, again with the iMacs I own. You can swap displays on these things, and they are “backwards compatibles” for RAM modules and other things. The only trick is because of that system call test issue, you can hit boot issues. But if you add hardware IDs to opencore (the boat loader for older macs that allows you to boot newer versions of Mac OS, as long as the OS itself supports your hardware. Example, 2012 and earlier macs recently got bumped down because Mac OS removed support for a specific codec that the intel chips of that era and before need to boot properly (something to do with graphics) so those won’t run. Anything newer will run fine, as long as you have reasonable expectations for your hardware. My Late 2015 is kind of just on the edge of not running Ventura all that well. But good enough for me ymmv, but anything newer than that is going to work fine.) My question is, once hackers get access to M1 in the same level as they have intel Macs, could the ID numbers for relevant parts in the old Mac and if that would facilitate the upgrade. Given the priorities of Apple Software, it would. It surprise me at all if the old system check method was still the exact way the new Macs worked.
There are a few parts I may guess could be the culprit: screen, battery, keyboard, trackpad, maybe even the WiFi connection via the cables. I recently swapped the motherboards of two old Dell laptops for fun and it refused to display an image because of the screen. The issue was I had to fully drain the CMOS battery and then it would boot. I have no doubt Apple found any way possible to lock down the MacBooks from being upgraded/repaired.
Very like they are doing the same as in the iPhone, they might be adding ID for each component and creating a encrypted handshake at boot, if you have components that the firmware doesn’t whitelist, it won’t post to the next step and will kill the boot sequence. This way they can prevent people upgrading modules like camera, touchpads, maybe battery that should only be available in a newer chipset gen, even that they are compatible and would perfectly work in older M models.
I'm curious if you can add another 256 Gb module in the empty space and upgrade it to a 512 Gb. Would it be possible? maybe get it from another dead MacBook Pro.
Would run into the same problem various experimenters did with trying to swap the flash chip modules on the Mac Studio. Without reprogramming the controller itself with the parameters of the new storage layout, it will not function at all, or at best you'd still only be access the original amount of flash.
Fyi there could be a voltage difference between the circuits in the m2 chip that could require either less or more power. The total reason could be the supply of voltage going to the main power board causing a voltage miscommunication that interferes with initializing the new m2 board. In addition there would be several components that are not compatible with the board just like any other laptop. Yes it may be apple but they want you to buy a new laptop instead of fixing your broken or current one. Usually when the system boots it does a system check to see if any components are compromised then boots once validation is complete. But if you didnt here the fans spin on startup thats because there is a voltage issue.
Did you happen to try connecting the MacBooks to an external display to verify that there was no power and not just a simple case of no video signal to the displays?
Try swapping the battery’s as well. Apple serialized the batteries in their phones. It probably won’t work without the proper battery. Test it by unplugging the battery and connecting power to see if it turns on.
Just like the iPad or iPhone the touch if memory is different for each Mac or book,you’ll need both unique finger prints for it to work and don’t press when logging in and remember what fingerprints to use
Hey Luke. I've been following you for a while from the UK. I do repairs and tried the same thing in a customer's machine. It's actually possible to swap the board, but you must swap the trackpad in order to turn it on. The keyboard and other components are actually fine. I just thought to let you know. I love your videos on content. Keep up the good work.
You have to consider which devices are security locked. I know on iPhones, that means the camera is locked to the motherboard so swapping the camera stops features from working for security reasons, so if its the same in the MacBook, then changing the touch ID and motherboard won't work, you'd have to extract the camera module and swap them over too. A bit like those people that swapped their Mac Studio modules and wondered why the Studio wouldn't boot.
I can tell you right now it’s not for security reasons, it’s so apple stops you from replacing and repairing your own phone. Apple just loves serializing parts of the iPhone to stop independent repair. For that matter I’m 100% sure that apple made it so the device won’t boot because there is some identifier in the hardware saying it belongs to m1 (like diff voltages within the hardware or different pin outs) or some serialization denying the possibility of booting if the parts don’t quite match.
Dealing with Apple for over 25 years on the technical side I knew that wouldn’t work. There are some identifiers on the Logic boards which verify the type of machine you are using. If those identifiers don’t match, it’s a no go.
The "Power-up" problem could have been then Touch Bar, since the touch bar logic is an iPhone processor that also controls Security of the MacBook Pro. Not sure...
Potentially Apple may have done what they did to iPhones, and paired the logic board to the screen, so in the event the screen gets damaged, they have to use their magic proprietary software to get the logic board paired to the new screen in order to boot?
Yeah...The gates love to come off of those zif connectors. I use a spudger like that, but I also put my finger over the gate so it doesn't pop off. When they pop off I hate soldering another on. Getting that gate back on is a pain in the ass.
The parts are all serialized to go with a specific Mac. You ain't getting around that unless if you are creating a repair on GSX, Luke. Good luck being an authorized service provider just so that you can create a repair on that one.
I baby my M1 MacBook Air so hard. The couple times it’s left my bedroom it’s been in a sleeve and I kept it in the passenger seat of my car lol. I’d never be able to take the bottom plate off unless it was broken and that was my only option… even then I’d probably be weary and do it in a room with zero dust/wind and spend like 8 hours doing it as delicate as possible. I don’t even have a smart TV anymore.. gave my nice Samsung 4K to my nieces, this MacBook is legit my home entertainment. Paired with my AirPods Pro 2 it’s seriously better than a TV anyways. If they made the 15” back in 2020 though, I’d have definitely bought that since I’m dang near legally blind wo my glasses on. This was neat to watch, we live vicariously through Luke on breakdowns 😂.
Apparently the configuration of one of the zifs is reversed which causes the board to shorten so it does not turn on at all. Did you try to turn it on only with a screen and electricity and a battery? Have you checked the battery connection configuration?
I'm honestly not sure why you thought this would work. I would assume Apple links most of the hardware at the most base level. Also, it is possible that there is just one little chip in the screen assembly or keyboard/trackpad or even the speakers that Apple somehow checks on boot or power and won't boot without "Seeing" said chip. But I appreciate your devotion to the attempt. Went above and beyond for sure.
Me suffering and worrying for fear of breaking the RAM clips in my dad’s 2011 ASUS and this guy opening and playing around with two laptops worth several thousands each 😂
the reason it failed to boot up bc its got older generation screen and battery that doest support m2 logic board. logic board needs on board configured wattage for it run boot operations
If it is a different interface on the keyboard and trackpad, you could try not plugging in the zif ribbon cables for the keyboard and trackpad. Assuming you can still plug in the power button/fingerprint reader, the computer should boot up without any keyboard and trackpad connected, although you obviously would not be able to login unless you plugged in a usb keyboard. Do not respond to impostors of this channel who reply here. They will take all of your money. Be careful.
Is it possible for Apple to consider this idea in the near future, to help meet you reducedr carbon goal quicker? I've always wondered by Apple doesn't have a program for customers to return their current M1 or M2 MBPs and have Apple swap out and upgrade their existing laptop to the latest M3 chip? Rather than manufacturing millions more of the new laptop with the same M1 and M2 chassis only to house the latest M3 chip inside? It seems counter intuitive because I don't think the ratio of users returning machines through your current recycling program comes close to the rate at which you manufacture all new MBP chassis and components? The recycling program only really salvaged the aluminum correct? Now let's do M2 ro M3 16" MBP since they are even more closely similar ????? These are rhe best !!!
Maybe it don't worked because, despite having the same amount of connectors, it doesn't mean the parts are electrically the same, you were lucky that nothing was damaged
Its probably the screws that are not placed back. If I never remembered wrongly, Apple did close the connection with the screws back in place. Meaning if you didnt put it back (the first re-assembly) it would be an open connection and thus not boot up. There was a Linus Tech Tips video on it. where they tried to figure out why their macbook wouldnt boot up, turns out apple had their circuit designed with the screws included.
I would almost entirely wager this is based on keyboard/trackpad if either of those are different. Signals for power on/power off can come from either of these and if pin outs on the connectors, or the signal voltages differ on those lines, or communication protocols are different, I would absolutely expect this sort of behavior. I LOVE these kind of expiriments. And even if it doesn't sound relevant now, I know in a year or so it might be, once the used market is a bit more saturated. I would be more likely to wonder if the opposite is true (M1 board in the M2 chassis).
"Today's video is dumb, pointless and frankly serves no real purpose" dude say no more. I'll watch it to the end
You must not value your time at all.
@@porvoonosho bro this was a year ago not a lot people value their time especially last year
@@porvoonosho its a joke
@@porvoonosho you must be fun at parties
@@MultiNakir Well, to be honest, he could've just said "It doesn't work".
Senior systems analyst here, although I haven't looked at the specifics of the two devices relating to this, this is almost certainly going to be a battery related issue. Both of these motherboards will be expecting to be connected to a specific battery size and voltage that almost certainly differs between the two models. While they can in theory boot up with either battery, Apple will have most likely locked the power requirement to be within a very specific range and as such anything out of that will not power up.
How can this be true?
They are both modelled as “a2338”, and the same batter model is been used inside🤔
most times apple even lock the display to work only with it's original MoBo... idk, I know touch Id and security things but why I shouldn't be able to boot an OS and at least try things like old macs
@killerhakie whilst the model may be the same from a certain perspective, there will be actual differences from a technical standpoint internally.
It's also likely apple have serialised the parts, meaning if serial numbers do not match for certain components, it will not boot or work.
They even do this with their airpods max ear cups... it's stupid and anticonsumer
@@killerhakie Just because Apple uses the same model number does not imply that there aren't sometimes significant differences inside different machines. For example, Apple used the same model number A1286 for all of its non-Retina 15-inch MacBook Pro models from 2009 through 2012. Yet, in many cases these machines have incompatible logic boards, graphics chips, display assemblies, and so forth.
@@allthenamesrtook Yep. If you try to change a single chip on the motherboard, it will only stay at 5V instead of 20V and will not boot up. If you tried once to change anything, it will remain like this, even if you try to replace the new chip with the original, functional one, it will not want to boot anymore. Sometimes I get the feeling that we might be smart, but not smarter than Apple.
next test: swap the logic boards for two identical m1's and two identical m2's (m1 to m1 and m2 to m2). see if there are hardware locks on the other components
Was just going to suggest that.👍
I am pretty much 100% there will be lockouts.
That'd be nice to see.
There are two actually.
1. TouchID
2. TrueTone
@@Miguel-fm8xh didn’t know they had software locks just like iPhones
To anyone who doesn't know: ZIF = zero insertion force. This means that the connector doesn't need to be forced into the slot at all to be seated. These are usually accompanied by some sort of lever to clip down onto the ribbon cable.
Like AMD processors or old laptops, or epromm flashing devices
Former Apple employee here. iBoot does a simple checksum against the hardware and everything has to match. The M1 SOC knows itself and what technology it's expected to meet,, and it basically wants to make sure the top case/battery/associated electronics say "yes in fact, we also are designed for you -- we have the same number card that matches." This has lots to do with the security of TouchID/Secure Enclave as well -- but mostly it's also for battery safety, to prevent thermal runaways and a smoky MacBook 😉 ... the M2 has a slightly different battery than the M1.
One of the first things we teach Apple Store Geniuses.
Damn ok
Ok so in theory, If I got myself an M1 battery to replace my M2 faulty one... it won´t work?
@@JuliDC7xz Correct, it should not work.
hey i wanted an advice from you, how much do you expect the m1 macbook air to receive updates. Just an idea cuz you might know how they work. Thanks for reading the comment.😄
@@shenlong7890 Apple usually supports the hardware for approx 5 years after the discontinuation of sale (refurbs don’t count) and the software a bit longer still, somewhere up to 6-8 years. I’d assume the M1 models see updates through 2027.
The M2 changed the way keyboard and trackpad are connected (used to be SPI on the M1). Most likely this is the reason it refuses to boot up in the M1 chassis.
This is fake
Wouldn't make sense to continue to boot? You can use an external keyboard
@@cristibaluta Luke broke something else apparently. iFixit did try the same and they managed to get the M2 logic board booting inside the M1 chassis. Trackpad and Keyboard did not work, of course.
@@chinamobilemag Broke what? The two machines are OK again after being reassembled with their proper boards.
@@BilisNegra When I took my Intel MBP apart it wouldn't boot without the bottom case screws in. I know, weirdest thing, but it's true. Bottom case on without screws, wouldn't boot. Put screws in, everything works just fine.
nice anti repair move Apple.
Anti modification mb?)
What specifically are you referring to?
Because I think you’re just saying stuff.
Luke, as an Electronics Engineer (who has performed many maintenance tasks and upgrades on computers over the years) I have to say, you’re crazy; but in a good way! Great video, I hope you get lots of hits for your considerable efforts.
Yep
It’s track pad at fault here m2 trackpad is different than m1 trackpad keyboard is still same try this again and just swap the trackpad
No, because it’s not a new MacBook with m cpu - he opened old ones and no one saw it? How about the pro people around? 😂🎉🎉
How does an engineer go from theory of math, physics, circuits, electronics, signals, controls, communications, etc. To performing maintenance? Seems like you wasted to your 4 year degree.
Oh, let's see how hard Apple made this. 😏🍿
Seems like Apple is really going out of their way to prevent anyone from using broken machines for spare parts.
guess this is the most upgrade part on new MacBook Pro
It's either a hardware lock or a power issue. The power consumption between the M1 and M2 chips are different so the batteries are going to be designed differently to handle the different loads. It would be interesting to see if that is actually the case
nah apple definitely coded something strange into their software
I see the problem: the case color doesn’t match making them incompatible!🤓
Maybe voltage and ampere of the battery are different. Or the capacitors are different. The M2 has a slightly higher watt consumption with consistent battery lifetime to the m1
I just imagined an alternative universe where Apple offered upgrades, like say you can get your M1 Macbook upgraded to M2 for 500$ but when they introduce major feature revisions you have to do the full upgrade. Because as it stands most people will keep their Mac through maybe 2-4 model iterations before upgrading. The old boards could be refurbished or put into repaired laptops. That could actually be a way to capture a bit of revenue from users who won't spend 1200$+ for the next version. It's a win win
Absolutely a good idea
Who cares, just stop buying apple products and buy company's which does offer upgrades
@@maharaj8460 How about we not be fascists who tell other people what to do. ^_^
The ram is already soldered to board so why not allow to upgrade the cpu and the ram
Processor upgrades like that existed in the PowerPC era but they were never that profitable even for 3rd parties that offered them. A couple of companies went out of business and Sonnet just barely hung on.
Try upgrading an intel macbook to m1
There is nothing called intel macbook
@@Mekaram8790 2019 macbook pro has an intel core i7, hence the name "intel macbook"
@@Mekaram8790wudm actually there is alought of Intel Mac books
@@venomplayzs4674 still there is nothing called intel MacBook yes it has a i9 but it is called a MacBook without intel
@@Mekaram8790 don't be so f stupid, he didn't say "intel MacBook" as a model name, he just said intel MacBook, meaning MacBook with Intel processor
What were you expecting? It’s Apple.
and its new tech with new tech needed for that to power
Can I swap my brain for an M2?
😭
Try it!
Oh nah dawg
One possible cause may be that the displays might need different firmware drivers and when you swap out the boards, it is likely that the boards detect an incorrect hardware conf for which it has no firmware and fails to boot
I wonder if they are using an external set of resistors to set the firmware id.
The M series as well as iOS Devices are serialized, meaning there is a gatekeeper within the computer that is loaded with a random group of serials, if one is missing and a new one is installed, it won't work. Same as what happened to the iphone. it's Software related. There is a dedicated chip for this.
that's really weird. I haven't gotten my hands on any m2 machines yet but with the m1 you can get a bare logic board to boot with nothing but the charger plugged in (you can confirm it booted based on the current draw using a usb-c power meter). So you could've started disconnecting things from the board until it would boot. I agree it's most likely the keyboard/trackpad that was the issue, although I also wouldn't be surprised if they did something funny with the battery. Fantastic video and great idea overall, would love a follow-up where you try to find out the culprit
on iPhones they do tie the battery to the logic board with a battery serial number. if you don't go through an authorized apple repair you would loose the battery health monitoring features. Probably something similar.
@@ThatOneGuyGreggers thankfully so far I haven't seen any issues with battery replacement even on newer macbooks. my theory was more that they might've made some small unnecessary change to the battery and therefore given it a new part number, which the other board won't recognize and will therefore refuse to boot. Either way, I wouldn't be too surprised if it's just more Apple serialization BS as usual
@@ThatOneGuyGreggers u can program it but the message still on i think
I feel like Luke has gotten much more comfortable with being on camera over the years. i see much more of his personality in this video than I would have seen in a video from three years ago. i love watching the channel grow :)
Why because he cursed in the middle lol
Mutiple componets have their own ids, and i believe the massive amounts of differnt ids may have prevented it from booting too. (Display id, battery, etc.)
It is probably some parts pairing between the logic board and the 1. Display 2. keyboard 3. Trackpad 4. Battery BMS 5. Lid position sensor or some combination of these.
Me thinking you're actually gonna swap the M1 and M2 chips... Stupid me...
There is a LID ANGLE SENSOR at the top right corner, it has a chip paired to the logic board that's why I didn't turned on, cheers
It’s confusing yes but at the same time it’s a simple answer. Apple made their boards to only work with the certain chasis. They did this on purpose just like their phones. This is another example of Apple not accepting right to repair.
I used to work at a UBreakiFix. Every damaged apple device we’ve received, during my presence at least; were brought in due owner neglect and/or the user consecutively depleting the battery to 0% between charge cycles. Withholding battery replacements, I think right to repair is becoming blown out of proportion, maybe even to a Marxist degree.
I’ve made an iPhone 6s last for nearly 4 years without it needing repairs. I brought it to Apple for a battery replacement and the tech was shocked by its near mint condition, telling me “we don’t get devices like this.”
BUT STILL, God forbid a little personal responsibility…
Right.... in the same way that Intel doesn't accept right to repair because they changed the socket on their 12th gen. I'm not saying Apple loves right to repair... but being able to swap major components from a significantly changed or revised version of a product, that happens to be in the same model line, into an older one is *not* an indication of such, it just isn't.
@@dregenius Socket types will evolve, for example; due to the differing GPIO layout of the next generation chip. And assuming, you're referring to desktop chips, those are typically user accessible. I don't think succeeding intel socket types are a good example of undermining right to repair.
@@Jake-ix1od Yay, a new perspective! 👏🏼 I still wish that they would at least let people do something as simple as _upgrading RAM/storage_ on a whole chonkin' laptop, but that's the limit. Hearing your statement, I do agree that sometimes Right to Repair is exaggerated by a lot of people, to the point that it's become a mere buzzword 😓
@@prayagsuthar9856 Apple plays to their benefit here; Integrating everything reduces manufacturing costs and they'd rather get the money first hand for increased ram/storage.
I don't think this approach is that unreasonable. 30 years ago, computers in general were atrociously more expensive when considering inflation. Despite those early computers typically being user upgradable and easily repairable, I don't think they usually reached a level of reliability or a useful life expectancy anywhere near that of what our modern computers can reach.
Apple clearly isn't concerned with providing us the capability to increase the usefulness of their machines down the road. However I do think Apple is concerned with providing us long term reliability. That said; just because a computer is reliable doesn't mean it's useful, but at least it wasn't designed to fail.
I'm willing to be wrong but that's how I think I understand this shit so far.
I think the reason it didn’t work is because of the display and other peripherals are serial locked to the logic boards maybe 🤔
11:50 for your answer
Did you place the screws back in before booting? Cause some laptops use screws to complete the circuits in logic board.
Also other companies make sure their logic board works only with the original chassis. How? idk. I could very easily find out if i had such devices to play around with and time. I completely love disassembling laptops much more than desktops. Great work.
This video was awesome. I loved the energy and genuine shock when the M2 board didn't boot. There are a few minor component differences and I am sure it was something with initial BIOS load validation or some such nonsense. Either way, extremely entertaining, cheers.
BIOS is specific to non-Apple Intel computers. Macs, including Intel Macs, have never used BIOS.
Two options are either voltage or failure of some device. You can try to use the M2 power supply unit (then we will bypass the battery). But I think most likely the "Bios" of a Mac (of a specific generation) is able to work only with a narrow list of hardware - after all, they don't need more.
I’m surprised it didn’t work considering that nearly the entire computer is on that logic board. Also if Apple were to offer an “upgrade” logic board it would still be very expensive since all of the core components are within that single board. It’s more like replacing the computer than “upgrading”.
when I see the title, I'm imagining a swap arm processor from M2 to M1 board, but yeah, just swap the logic board
Great video so interesting and fun to watch. I remember old laptops when you could replace almost everything.
U can also do that now just not with apple things cuz u know
do not connect the lcd screen cable. Connect to an external monitor. display output pin is re-programmed, which could short one of the power rail.
The editing is getting stronger and stronger with each new video lately. Nice work,@Luke Miani!
This is happened by the battery. The newer MacBooks don’t start without a plugged battery. They also don’t start with a wrong battery ID like changing battery’s in iPhones. But in your iPhone you get a message, your MacBook won’t boot.
It looks like Apple has gone to tremendous lengths to make sure people can't just swap parts in these computers making people have to buy a new machine if a part fails or to have Apple fix it for a charge if out of warranty!
Your problem is, you want the thief to have your hardware. Now it doesn't make sense to steal a Mac or iPhone. Even to replace parts and that is great news.
Planned obsolescence and capitalism. Thief exist because capitalism
They've had all this time, and yet they've failed to make the MBP in a manner that can be upgraded. Almost 10 years now. And then the company tells us how much they care about the environment....if that were really the case, the logic board or the SSD or CPU would be upgradeable by now. They've had 10 years to make a thin and light laptop which doesn't need to have everything soldered. Does every upgrade really NEED a new display, housing, keyboard, etc which comes with a whole new laptop?
Ex-Genius here.
1. The screw you removed from the heat sink we call it "super screw"
2. The swap didn't work because you don't have access to System Configurator (not to be confused with Apple Configurator). System Configurator is only available through AST2 and must be run on all post 2018 macs that had the MLB replaced.
No T2 chip on M1 or M2
Wait. So you are no longer a Genius. How does that work??. Like how do you go from Genius to dumb??
@@lonnygallant827 Thanks for the correction. I meant to say all post 2018 macs
@@Wilbur-em1hw Hahahahaha
So this actually could have worked if it wasn't for Apple's dickheadery in allowing user upgradability?
The m1, m2 and m3 macbook pros are with the notch, are these macbook airs? No, because the m2 was also a notch one
You need to swipe the T2 chip, which stores the unique signature of the whole system in the "secure enclave", not the touch id button alone.
there is no more T2 chips in Apple Silicon macs, the secure enclave is now built into the M2/M1 chip itself
What this could be useful for is when the M3 MBA13 comes out in October of this year but the 15 inch doesn't come out for another 1 months after that, then a M3 MBA 13 logic board swap into an existing M2 MBA 15 would be a real treat?
Luke, that was really weird. I wonder what Apple did to lock down the boards?
Just Framework, you can swap what ever you want and it will work and you can even buy enclosure for your old board and use it as standard PC
Next video: making a m2 12 inch MacBook!
You should get a fan spin on the naked board. Start attaching cables until it fails. There is a problem.
It may be that some of the connection points have different pin configurations from the M1 unit to the M2 unit. It would only need to take a few differences to prevent the M2 logic board from working in the M1 unit. Also additionally, the bios microcode might not allow such a change.
macs dont use bios, its the fact that its a different screen, trackpad, whatever assembly that stopped it. its called part out protection so no one, even if they have the mac, they cant steal your data.
It could be that one of the reasons why you made the video, (and why we expected it to work) is because the Space Gray color of the macbook with the M1 is more beautiful than the computer with the M2, So, because you would buy a new one in space gray with m2, when you can move from m1 to m2?
Foam cover over wi-fi antennas is so that if you squeeze / dent the bottom case in your school bag and generally mistreat it, the metal bottom case doesn't short on the wi-fi antenna's causing reduced reception. (I'd guess)
The problem is the serial number check on boot. Every single part has a serial number where is coded on the board. You can only change the component Serial numbers or a Apple Technician must be configuring in the Repair Tool Website from Apple.
It’s funny how Luke is being a little more sassy than ever 🤣
Mac OS generally works by doing a scan for expected hardware and checking it can make system calls to it before continuing boot.
I’m guessing Apple has made each config SUPER specific.
This is as opposed to previous Apple hardware. My 2015 iMac is is composed on 95% the same hardware as my late 2014 iMac.
My guess is that the parts on each upgrade for M series macs has, at the very least, slightly different hardware ids
My question remains “can this be hacked around?”
Here is my experience, again with the iMacs I own.
You can swap displays on these things, and they are “backwards compatibles” for RAM modules and other things. The only trick is because of that system call test issue, you can hit boot issues.
But if you add hardware IDs to opencore (the boat loader for older macs that allows you to boot newer versions of Mac OS, as long as the OS itself supports your hardware. Example, 2012 and earlier macs recently got bumped down because Mac OS removed support for a specific codec that the intel chips of that era and before need to boot properly (something to do with graphics) so those won’t run. Anything newer will run fine, as long as you have reasonable expectations for your hardware. My Late 2015 is kind of just on the edge of not running Ventura all that well. But good enough for me ymmv, but anything newer than that is going to work fine.)
My question is, once hackers get access to M1 in the same level as they have intel Macs, could the ID numbers for relevant parts in the old Mac and if that would facilitate the upgrade. Given the priorities of Apple Software, it would. It surprise me at all if the old system check method was still the exact way the new Macs worked.
There are a few parts I may guess could be the culprit: screen, battery, keyboard, trackpad, maybe even the WiFi connection via the cables. I recently swapped the motherboards of two old Dell laptops for fun and it refused to display an image because of the screen. The issue was I had to fully drain the CMOS battery and then it would boot. I have no doubt Apple found any way possible to lock down the MacBooks from being upgraded/repaired.
this isnt for apples gain, its called part out protection.
Very like they are doing the same as in the iPhone, they might be adding ID for each component and creating a encrypted handshake at boot, if you have components that the firmware doesn’t whitelist, it won’t post to the next step and will kill the boot sequence. This way they can prevent people upgrading modules like camera, touchpads, maybe battery that should only be available in a newer chipset gen, even that they are compatible and would perfectly work in older M models.
I'm curious if you can add another 256 Gb module in the empty space and upgrade it to a 512 Gb. Would it be possible? maybe get it from another dead MacBook Pro.
Would run into the same problem various experimenters did with trying to swap the flash chip modules on the Mac Studio. Without reprogramming the controller itself with the parameters of the new storage layout, it will not function at all, or at best you'd still only be access the original amount of flash.
Fyi there could be a voltage difference between the circuits in the m2 chip that could require either less or more power. The total reason could be the supply of voltage going to the main power board causing a voltage miscommunication that interferes with initializing the new m2 board. In addition there would be several components that are not compatible with the board just like any other laptop. Yes it may be apple but they want you to buy a new laptop instead of fixing your broken or current one. Usually when the system boots it does a system check to see if any components are compromised then boots once validation is complete. But if you didnt here the fans spin on startup thats because there is a voltage issue.
Did you happen to try connecting the MacBooks to an external display to verify that there was no power and not just a simple case of no video signal to the displays?
You’d have clickable trackpad, starting noise, lit keyboard if that worked
Yeah, I had it connected to apple configurator
Me: Tim (Cook), what's the point of MBP13 with only chip upgrade?
Tim: The new models are more Luke Miani-proof.
Luke: cracking his knuckles.
Could it be the display's plug pinouts are different which somehow causes a short and prevents the machine to power on?
Ive stopped at 00:40 . Apple made sure you cant upgrade the internal storage of the Mac Studio… no way this will work.
Try swapping the battery’s as well. Apple serialized the batteries in their phones. It probably won’t work without the proper battery. Test it by unplugging the battery and connecting power to see if it turns on.
It’s like trying to switch presidents it just doesn’t work.
Finally a girlfriend appears from the cracks in the walls! The 'Luke Miani is probably gay' rumours are finally over. Love your videos Luke! 👍
Just like the iPad or iPhone the touch if memory is different for each Mac or book,you’ll need both unique finger prints for it to work and don’t press when logging in and remember what fingerprints to use
Isn't every component on a modern Mac serialized? My guess the board detected that the generations were not matching up.
Hey Luke. I've been following you for a while from the UK. I do repairs and tried the same thing in a customer's machine. It's actually possible to swap the board, but you must swap the trackpad in order to turn it on. The keyboard and other components are actually fine. I just thought to let you know. I love your videos on content. Keep up the good work.
You have to consider which devices are security locked. I know on iPhones, that means the camera is locked to the motherboard so swapping the camera stops features from working for security reasons, so if its the same in the MacBook, then changing the touch ID and motherboard won't work, you'd have to extract the camera module and swap them over too. A bit like those people that swapped their Mac Studio modules and wondered why the Studio wouldn't boot.
I can tell you right now it’s not for security reasons, it’s so apple stops you from replacing and repairing your own phone. Apple just loves serializing parts of the iPhone to stop independent repair. For that matter I’m 100% sure that apple made it so the device won’t boot because there is some identifier in the hardware saying it belongs to m1 (like diff voltages within the hardware or different pin outs) or some serialization denying the possibility of booting if the parts don’t quite match.
Dealing with Apple for over 25 years on the technical side I knew that wouldn’t work. There are some identifiers on the Logic boards which verify the type of machine you are using. If those identifiers don’t match, it’s a no go.
The "Power-up" problem could have been then Touch Bar, since the touch bar logic is an iPhone processor that also controls Security of the MacBook Pro. Not sure...
Boards are setup very different in terms of components, more then 1 major difference, but still differences none the less
M2 can consume 6W more than M1, maybe some other component checks the wattage of the logic board.
Potentially Apple may have done what they did to iPhones, and paired the logic board to the screen, so in the event the screen gets damaged, they have to use their magic proprietary software to get the logic board paired to the new screen in order to boot?
Loved the video Luke! It felt different than the normal video out there and I really enjoyed it.
Perhaps a iFix it tear down will answer your questions as too why the switch didn’t work!
iFixt tried this and failed too
Please do the framework laptop upgrade just to show how easy it is possible for companies to actually make swappable boards.
Good idea
Yeah...The gates love to come off of those zif connectors. I use a spudger like that, but I also put my finger over the gate so it doesn't pop off. When they pop off I hate soldering another on. Getting that gate back on is a pain in the ass.
The parts are all serialized to go with a specific Mac. You ain't getting around that unless if you are creating a repair on GSX, Luke. Good luck being an authorized service provider just so that you can create a repair on that one.
I mean yeah apple does this with the newer iPhones but where did you find out that this is the case here aswell?
I baby my M1 MacBook Air so hard. The couple times it’s left my bedroom it’s been in a sleeve and I kept it in the passenger seat of my car lol. I’d never be able to take the bottom plate off unless it was broken and that was my only option… even then I’d probably be weary and do it in a room with zero dust/wind and spend like 8 hours doing it as delicate as possible.
I don’t even have a smart TV anymore.. gave my nice Samsung 4K to my nieces, this MacBook is legit my home entertainment. Paired with my AirPods Pro 2 it’s seriously better than a TV anyways. If they made the 15” back in 2020 though, I’d have definitely bought that since I’m dang near legally blind wo my glasses on.
This was neat to watch, we live vicariously through Luke on breakdowns 😂.
No one, not a single soul
Luke’s brain “I wonder if I can put an M2 chip in the M1 pro”
Apparently the configuration of one of the zifs is reversed which causes the board to shorten so it does not turn on at all. Did you try to turn it on only with a screen and electricity and a battery? Have you checked the battery connection configuration?
I'm honestly not sure why you thought this would work. I would assume Apple links most of the hardware at the most base level. Also, it is possible that there is just one little chip in the screen assembly or keyboard/trackpad or even the speakers that Apple somehow checks on boot or power and won't boot without "Seeing" said chip. But I appreciate your devotion to the attempt. Went above and beyond for sure.
Because it worked with older MacBooks. You could put a 2012 MacBook Pro logic board into the 2011 model.
If I had to guess, its the TPM module not liking how the s/n's didn't match up
Luke seems more animated than usual in this video. I can only come to the conclusion he was hitting his sponsor’s sauce before recording. 🍸
Mobo even checks the model of the screen, if you connect it to a different one like you did, it will not boot up.
Me suffering and worrying for fear of breaking the RAM clips in my dad’s 2011 ASUS and this guy opening and playing around with two laptops worth several thousands each 😂
the reason it failed to boot up bc its got older generation screen and battery that doest support m2 logic board. logic board needs on board configured wattage for it run boot operations
If it is a different interface on the keyboard and trackpad, you could try not plugging in the zif ribbon cables for the keyboard and trackpad. Assuming you can still plug in the power button/fingerprint reader, the computer should boot up without any keyboard and trackpad connected, although you obviously would not be able to login unless you plugged in a usb keyboard.
Do not respond to impostors of this channel who reply here. They will take all of your money. Be careful.
Is it possible for Apple to consider this idea in the near future, to help meet you reducedr carbon goal quicker?
I've always wondered by Apple doesn't have a program for customers to return their current M1 or M2 MBPs and have Apple swap out and upgrade their existing laptop to the latest M3 chip?
Rather than manufacturing millions more of the new laptop with the same M1 and M2 chassis only to house the latest M3 chip inside?
It seems counter intuitive because I don't think the ratio of users returning machines through your current recycling program comes close to the rate at which you manufacture all new MBP chassis and components?
The recycling program only really salvaged the aluminum correct?
Now let's do M2 ro M3 16" MBP since they are even more closely similar ?????
These are rhe best !!!
Swap individual components one at a time to see what is causing the issue
You missed something,
You need to swap the only keyboard with the logic, then look what happened.
Because
It’s identical from old 2016 retina models.
For someone with a repair shop I think its a great video. Customers do usually have some crazy requests
My guess is it's the bios is not set up to support the new CPU. It needs a hacked bios flash.
The ssd only having 1 module instead of two makes the ssd speeds substantially slower
This comment makes no sense
@@PedroPauloAmorim Makes a lot of sense you just don't know what you're talking about. 2 drives in raid 0 will have faster speeds than 1 drive.
Maybe it don't worked because, despite having the same amount of connectors, it doesn't mean the parts are electrically the same, you were lucky that nothing was damaged
The question now, can you downgrade an M2 to an M1? 🤔
Its probably the screws that are not placed back. If I never remembered wrongly, Apple did close the connection with the screws back in place. Meaning if you didnt put it back (the first re-assembly) it would be an open connection and thus not boot up. There was a Linus Tech Tips video on it. where they tried to figure out why their macbook wouldnt boot up, turns out apple had their circuit designed with the screws included.
Everyone else: M2 MBP IS BORING lol
Luke: imma swap da boards baybee
I would almost entirely wager this is based on keyboard/trackpad if either of those are different. Signals for power on/power off can come from either of these and if pin outs on the connectors, or the signal voltages differ on those lines, or communication protocols are different, I would absolutely expect this sort of behavior.
I LOVE these kind of expiriments. And even if it doesn't sound relevant now, I know in a year or so it might be, once the used market is a bit more saturated. I would be more likely to wonder if the opposite is true (M1 board in the M2 chassis).
I fully expect every part to be serialized, from the cameras, to the screen, and the battery, requiring a complete swap.
I was thinking the battery as well
Interesting, checking some voltages on the board would have made this more informative :)