Motorcycle technique: Counterbalance VS Lean (Road Race Style)
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 ก.ค. 2024
- Quinn Redeker explains (and demonstrates on-bike) the benefits and hard limitations of these primary motorcycle cornering styles
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I've been riding for many, many years. This finally makes sense now. Thank you for helping the light bulb over my head turn on.
@@vansonmafeet734 hey that’s great!!! Awesome to hear and much appreciated buddy👍
Well explained. So many riders think leaning is for taking the bike lower when actually, it is to do the opposite.
Good vid Quinn. Let me add, another advantage of leaning in and keeping the bike more vertical is the suspension works far better. Counterbalancing with the bike tilted far over- the tire is still tracking a horizontal surface, but the suspension (forks especially) are not vertical which is their optimum axis to compress and extend. Indeed, the farther over you push the bike- the less ability the forks have to do their job keeping the tire mated to the pavement- instead, a bump in the road (who has those anymore?) will sling the tire straight up, not in a fork compression stroke, and that means less weight on that contact patch. Not sure I wor=smithed this well, I hope the point comes across. Ride safe all.
Thank you! The video of you showing how counterbalancing works is worth 1000 words! I feel like I understand it better now. 👍
That’s awesome! I love hearing that! Very 😎 cool👍
I'm a new rider. I went and practiced going in 40 ft circles and counterbalancing as I dared to let the bike lean under me. I want you to know that by doing that I leaned the bike more than I ever have before. That's the highest praise I can give you! 👍
@@gregm9230 hey that’s absolutely awesome! Well done Greg! And thank you
Great video, thanks for sharing.
This is where people get it confused. Thanks for making this video.
A master class if ever there was one. Superb!
Excellent video…!
Lots of useful information.
Great presentation as always. After you've explained techniques they seem obvious and I feel I've always known them! ;)
Amazing video!
Great demonstration Kudos!
Great info. Thank you! - MXD
Excellent video
Great video. Appreciate the clarity between both techniques
Hey man thanks👍 appreciate the support
This was very helpful
Good one buddy great explanation!!!
Great video Quinn you are an extremely knowledgeable and well spoken guy.
Hey thanks buddy, I appreciate it!
Perfect explanation! Thanks Quinn! I came to the same conclusion after concentrating on riding cones for a couple of years and then attending Yamaha Champ School this summer. But there is no way I could explain it as clearly as you just did!
bravo
I don’t know what Quinn is better at, communicating or riding. Really enjoying the channel.
Great video and commentiing.. It's interesting to watch how motocycle behaviour and various techniques applied change as the speed increases.
Hey thanks for the positive feedback. And yes, speed absolutely changes things!
Great.
Basic physics:
As the speed drops and turning radius tightens, gravity beats centrifugal force. Then I need to counter balance.
As the speed significantly increases, centrifugal force beats gravity in corners. Then I need to hang off, to a certain extent with my limited skils😊.
Yes- what he said! Hey btw, maybe we hang out together sometime and you could do all the talking, I’m pretty confident we would sound much smarter!👍 thanks buddy
Thank you for the eloquent explanation. I would like to have seen a stationary outside camera angle, possibly superimposed in the corner, while you were demonstrating the transitions between the techniques. Nonetheless, I'm sure this video will help many who had any doubts about either technique!
Agreed, normally I would have had my drone up, but it’s packed and on its way to another event. definitely, I will make an effort to cover more angles in the future 👍
Would you consider doing a video about grip or traction in the wet PLEASE?
Good riders don't have to pick one over the other: they seamlessly adopt the correct posture to maximize the joy of riding. When you can do that intuitively you enjoy the experience on a different level.
Ben, can you make a video talking about the lack of training in police motor units? Tell us about liability, and why we are hurting ourselves. I think it’s important that motors start seeking outside training since it’s not being provided to us.
Brilliant explanation as always! One question about counter balancing: when you are doing a tight U-turn to the left for example, doing the counter lean, on which footpeg do you apply pressure? In this scenario turning to the left, applying pressure to the left footpeg helps the bike to turn and lean. What confuses me is, if we apply our weight to the right footpeg this will make it harder for the bike to lean in. Some instructors say pushing as hard as you can on the outside peg (in this scenario the right one) is what makes the counter balance work, which doesn't make sense to me. Why fight the bike? Are you pushing on the inner left footpeg while also counter balancing your upper body, as well as moving your but a bit to the right side? That makes sense to me. You are pushing on the left footpeg helping the bike to turn and lean while also counter balancing with your upper body to the right. Sorry if my question is confusing I am beating my head trying to figure this out.
First of all, I appreciate the support. As for your question, it’s important to note you do not need to use your feet. Counterbalance does not require feet in the equation, so just have that in your head when you are turning.
Regarding the foot pressure, you are correct, pushing on the inside peg or the direction of the lean will help the bike fall in and drop over. There is a common practice related to putting your weight on the outside peg when the bike is leaned over , but that in my experience is related to off road, where the outer edge of the tire can get more traction by force supplied to the outside peg if that makes sense?
The only time the bike is pushed on the outside foot peg is when I’m trying to pick it back up. So whatever direction you are leaning, push that inside peg to improve the drop in. When you are ready to get out, you would get your weight up and over the outside peg and put force to it .
I just did an article in Rider Magazine called “left foot right foot heavy foot light foot. “ I talk about this very technique and explain it in a bit better detail. If you can get a hold of that, check it out, it’s floating around and might be on my Facebook page Police motor training with quinn redeker
@@PoliceMotorTraining thank you very much Quinn, you finally cleared the confusion in my head! I will definitelly check out that article. Have a great one!
Excellent video, my Q, is... depends on the model of motorcycle ? "BMW 1250 GSA'' Pistons are sticking out too much..
Riding technique fundamentals don’t change, the difference between motorcycles may accentuate aspects of the various techniques, but it doesn’t really change anything. In other words, one model with more ground clearance might allow more counterbalance before it drags hard parts or another motorcycle might have less ground clearance and require more aggressive Road race style at a given speed in order to keep it from scraping. The parallel twin engine or boxer associated with the BMW can be problematic at high speeds on a road race track where lean angles are significant. Granted, fast guys will figure out how to go fast, but it’s not necessarily the best tool for that job based on my experience with the 2007 R12S sport bike model I used to ride track days on.
Great video..bravo..👍..i d like to ask a question..i usually use counterbalancing..what is the safe top limit of speed while counterbalancing on the road(as what i got from you when u ride fast u r in favor if lean in)
I think the simplest way to answer that would be counterbalance for first gear or off-road and once you click second gear and beyond use a lean-in technique. 👍
@@PoliceMotorTraining thanks for the answer
Hi Quinn. When you lean to the inside, are you also applying pressure to push the bike away from the ground, controlling the distance between ground and bike?
And, (newbie 3yr rider question here 😁), since speed equals radius and you're demonstrating the inside lean while in second gear, would it be correct to say that the inside technique is better suited to wider more sweeping turns while the counter lean, as we know, is ideal in slow speed control situations?
The short answers (If I understand them correctly):
-When I lean to the inside, I am not struggling or forcing or any such input. I simply move from counterbalance and trade my upright position with the motorcycles lean-in position, so NOW I'm down, the bike it up. That said, this is really not an appropriate or useful forum to communicate all the little things to do and think about in order to smoothly have a bike drop into a corner comfortably and precisely. Check out these guys:
www.totalcontroltraining.net
As for your second question- Yes, 2nd gear/wider turns. But think about it more in terms of momentum (how fast am I going) than a specific gear or radius of a turn.
Slow (1st gear)=Counterbalance
Faster (2nd-6th)= Lean-In (Roadrace) style
@@PoliceMotorTraining
Thanks Quinn. Yep, definitely understand that it's a momentum thing. Thanks for the reply. Love your channel.
What happens if you do neither? I can see the use of the low speed counterbalance, but at higher speeds you often see cops in the UK just sitting neutral in the saddle, controlling the bike by contersteer. How does that compare, I wonder?
Great question- If you neither counterbalance, nor lean-in, and are basically just sitting neutral on the bike when in a high or low speed lean angle, your bike will work "OK" in either situation. Not optimal, not terrible. And in fact there are great reasons to just adopt a "sit centered in the middle of the bike for all situations" technique; 1) Its easy to learn and apply, 2) It's easy to teach newer riders, 3) It will work more or less everywhere.
I use both techniques because they absolutely work better than an always-in-the-midle-of-the-seat technique for specific situations, of which I am experienced in. But if you don't have the knowledge and seat time to use them efficiently and appropriately, they can do more harm than good.
In the first minute or so you were talking about counterbalancing without telling us which way you're turning. At no point do you turn the handlebars or tell us whether you're turning right or left. Showing us that you're leaning one way or the other with no indication of which way you are turning doesn't help to understand what you are doing. I could not continue to watch.
Hey buddy, my apologies it did not make sense for you, I generated the video to essentially articulate the reasons you would shift from one style to the next- when speeds pick up, you start dragging hard parts and then, when you transition to the lean in style, you can actually carry more speed and still not drag hard parts. That was the demonstration, so I did not so much feel the need to explain the way to perform styles, but rather why to employ them I assumed the viewer had that part sorted, so that’s on me.