Testing Gains From Bifacial Panels | Round 1
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 ต.ค. 2024
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I am trying to select the best panels to mount with a ballast system on my flat roof. Since the membrane is white I would expect I should be able to harvest a bit more power from bifacial panels even when only mounted at a 10-degree angle. I will run a test to see what the actual gains are on a normal day with a mix of sun and clouds.
Round 2 Testing: • Testing Gains From Bif...
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The bifacials would benefit GREATLY from gaps between the panels to allow direct sunlight to pass between the panels and reflect back off of the roof. In this test there were no gaps.
Also because the front of the panels were resting on the roof you killed 100% of the light that would normally jump up from in front and refract directly onto the back. The front and the back of these panels should be lifted for max benefit.
I believe a solar pergola would be an ideal use case for bifacial solar panels. With the panels so high off the ground, they would benefit from reflected light from 360 degrees around.
Thanks for the feedback 👍
👍👍👍 Re: solar pergola… also excellent thought, perhaps with solar tracking mirrored table. Just don’t picnic while tracking, or fit all plates & utensils with suction-cups ;-)
Agreed. My thoughts exactly, whilst viewing this setup.
I was about to post the same.
I have the Bifacial panels, two separate DIY ground mounts, that can follow the sun and tilt, with a mobile reflective system underneath, I have great results..35% gains in colder weather..Your panels are too close to the roof..Bifacial is better for ground mounts..
Dang, that sounds like a setup. Thanks so much for sharing your results 👍
My CC 525 bifacial gets same wattage in all positions.
@@2hotscottpro You need something several feet under the panel to reflect the light to the underside..
I have4 sets of 4 485w q cell bifacials on the brightmounts mounted on a 14' 2" pipe usikg u bolts on a 6" top post 5' out of the ground so each is fully adjustable in all directions and I get over 100% rated output pretty much every cold or full sun day
@@tjmooney4181 only for a split second I seen 443 watts. Hovered 400 for a minute.All day between 280-340.And I tried all positions.Pmax rated 70% +/-5%
Same as Qcell 410’s to 485’s.
I thought you’d never get 100% unless in a lab test sight.
There's been a lot of talk lately about vertical bifacial panels collecting more than your standard angled panels.
I think blue tape lets light through. Put a piece on a bright window and you should see light passing through it.
I like that you're doing these comparisons, but ya... more space between them and the ground/roof would be good. Also, please do these tests (or at least updates) on a sunny day.
TH-cam expert here! The Bifacial panels need light to bounce to gain a (usually 7-12%) maximum ~20((30))% increase. For that they might need to be "higher up" (from the roof so light bounces on the backside), there might need to be distance between panels (10-30 cm), so that light get "in under", 3) you can reflect light in behind by reflecting material (foil paper or some white painted plank).
There are articles that state not to put Bifacial solar panels onto roofs of houses, the backs of panels will be too heavily shaded on the roof which kills most of the production from the back, as DialedN_07 said create some gaps between the Bifacials will help some but I would also suggest placing Mirrors or Chromed metal sheeting (online or from Lowes or Home Depot type stores) and place under the Bifacial panels gaps to reflect the sunlight to the back of the panels and they will pop. ------ Ground Mounted with Bifacial panels is the way to go and put a layer of white gravel rock under them to reflect indirect sunlight to the back sides of the Bifacial panels or have gaps for sunlight between panels and lay down mirrors or chromed metal sheeting as I mentioned for the roof. Thin Chrome Metal Sheeting can be fairly inexpensive.
Bifacials shine in ground mounts or when elevated enough in a white rooftop. If you had lifted the bottom part, you might have seen 6-10% gains in that kind of day. The black frame does not help much either.
Thanks for testing this issue on our behalf.
Really like these comparison vids - recently watched another similar vid where the creator also mentioned how much better solar production was when the ground is snow covered
I set up my panels on top of emergency Mylar blankets & it works great. Layout the blankets, secure them down with wooden strips on all of the ends, then set up the EcoFlow 220W Bifacial panels on top.
other users are testing them mounted vertical in a north/south mounting position to get better morning and evening results.
This is a poor test. You need to block the back better with something more solid. That blue tape still lets light through. Then, the Bifacial panels would benefit more with an ALL DAY test. When the sun is lower in the sky the reflection would be greater and you'd have more bounce light reaching the backside. Redo and report back please!
I think I will run another round once I get the iron ridge bx ballasted system. Then I will have the exact height, angle, orientation. I will also get a better tape/film to be 100% confident nothing is coming through on the back side. Stay tuned 👍
Great test setup and data. I might try the same test with one change, a 6-12 in. light gap between the panels. My understanding is the would allow more reflected light to reach the back side of the panels. The same gap at the head and toe of the panel may also aid in producing more reflected energy.
Love your videos, always give great information. I bought the bifacial panels from ecoflow when they were on sale. Kind of disappointing in their performance but it gets the job done for how I use them on my ecoflow delta 2's and delta max 2000.
I put a space blanket on the ground behind the panel.
I think bifacials shine most with vertical arrays. No shading if the ground, so allows max reflection of light, esp in snow or white ground material
I been watching plenty of clips on TH-cam for these type of panels. And straight away there better for ground mount. And not the best angle and you need some more height to them and of course have some reflective metals behind and try some angles. But still. What you did is an eye opener really as not the best condition but shows there doing actually tad better then I personally thought they do. And another cracking clip. Keep them coming.
My PV2 is 2790 watts ,465x6 bi facial, feb19 pv2 was at 3162 watts . In thick clouds 465 becomes 105 watts. Thess #s are south facing 90 deg straight vertical ground mount with snow. 62 bonus watts per panel. With 27 panels that is 1674 watts as a bonus.
Jinko Solar JKM465M-7RL3-TV 465W, Bifacial
For a test, I would have gone with 2 vertical mounts. Put a tape and untapped panel on each vertical mount. And alternate the the front/back panel on each vertical.
Interesting. I think the wooden mount support blocked lots of light from getting to the back of the panels. Build some kind of standoff that would get them off the deck at least 6 inches especiall in the front. Good Luck.
The panels need to have more space and a reflective area under them. Something like using them as an awning for a patio with light colored things under it. The way you have them situated for this video, there is not enough area/light on the underside. After I install my white PVC privacy fence on my north property line, I will be mounting 15 bifacial panels in front of it. The area along the fence has a 4' border of white sea shells on the ground. The north property line has no issues with shade all day so that will be a great location for solar power production.
I'd be curious about a comparison where the panels are mounted vertically (e.g. 90 degrees, like walls or fencing) for applications where the area needs to be more passable. The first time I saw these, the researchers were giving examples of applications where tall farm equipment was running between aisles of crops.
suggest you re run this test jack up the panels where you actually get sun shining under the panels.. as you have them in this test you might as well have just left them flat on the roof deck..
I think your mounting system here, had a massive impact on the potential of the panels. Not enough space to allow light in underneath, and the beam blocked a lot where the panel was elevated the most
Yeah, I agree having some light coming through the front side would be ideal.
You need to lift the panel at least by 1 meter off the ground and 30% slope angle i get 50% more production in very heavy clouds and about 10-15% better on average.
That seems reasonable. I wanted to test this setup as we are being proposed something similar for a commercial property with a similar membrane roof using the iron ridge ballast system. Thanks for the feedback.
I was freaking out (on your behalf) until you said 'just a temporary solution'...
Yes, definitely not a permanent solution. I think I will go with these from iron ridge. I like the design www.ironridge.com/flat-roofs/ballasted/
I don't think you're getting much reflection into the other side. If you raise them on a reflective surface or mount vertically East-West, and run the whole day you can compare the 2 products.
Bi-Facial panels should be mounted so that NO part of them contact the roof itself . You need to get more light under the panels . IF roof mounted , I would suggest the lowest end of the panel be mounted at 1 foot and the other end mounted higher as needed to get your 10 degree angle . A more reflective surface would also improve performance .
Couple things. 1. Bifacial panels really benefit the most when the sun is low on the horizon since the sun can shine directly on the white roof below the panels and thus reflect onto the backside of the panels. Honestly the fact that you saw a 4% gain while the panels had a shadow under them is impressive. I'd run this test again but run it from dawn till dusk. I bet you'll see your best gains in the morning and evening. 2. Maybe paint your roof with an aluminized reflective coat. Especially underneath the panels and a foot or so around the edges too. Increased reflectivity can only improve whatever gains you get and are cheap with 0 maintenance. I'm installing bifacial panels on my black asphalt roof and had considered painting my roof under my panels with aluminized roof paint but gave up on the idea since I'd only have 3 inches of gap between the bottom of the panels and the roof. Honestly if I could get 4% gains just from painting my roof it would be well worth it. Especially if my roof was already white to begin with and I wouldn't have to worry about the aluminized paint looking funky compared to the rest of the roof. Just something to chew on.
Be a bit careful about the weight of the panels. Bifacials tend to be rather heavy which can be a problem depending on the type of roof. They are usually used on ground mounts (also with more background light), rather than on roof mounts. Cost is also an issue.
That is a valid concern. I didn't compare to non bifacial but when i was doing some fuzzy math on the max amount of panels my pole barn could fit on the south facing side it came out to like 2500 lbs just in panels
Good job but at 10% you don't have any slope to expose back to light. This is probably not good for southern areas. In far north where mounting is at 45 degrees or more far more light would be availabe to back of panels. The sweet spot for these might be in north, vertical to get rid of lessened power when snow covered, as high on property as possible to be exposed to the sky as much as possible. Yes 30 feet up on a roof you get more sky exposure than in ground, especially if there are trees. Indeed, the brightest area of sky, greastest sky glow during the day is in the NORTH
If you're going to put your panels right on your roof, then bifacial will not change energy output much. Your panels were set too close to the roof to benefit much from the bifacial feature. If you had mounted it higher at about 30º, I'm think it would have been much different.
I was trying to do a quick test of a more permanent solution like this www.ironridge.com/flat-roofs/ballasted/
I have just bought Seraphim SRP-440-BTD-BG 440Ah BiFacial panels. I'm fitting 2 of these on davits on my catamaran. Underneath is either a dinghy with a grey cover (making a white one) or the water below if the dinghy is not in the davits. Looking forward to seeing just how much the underside adds.
To block the underside, what about fitting cardboard from a tv carton within the aluminium tracks?
I want a Catamaran 👍
The ones with the tape would also be hotter and less efficient
Wouldn't a taller mount with space between panels help the bi-facial panels work better? Maybe elevate them 2' up with maybe 1' between them...??
More is more 😮
try reflective tape on the bottom!
Have you tried standing them up vertical and not directly facing the sun.
I thought bifacials were supposed to be mounted vertically and face east/west?
set the panels vertical offset from south and on the ground with reflective materials (rocks metal ect ) just laying them on a roof is non productive and forget taping the backside since they are already flat on the roof . I have 3 bifacials 37,5 voc 13.8 oc in parallel on a roof but they are mounted vertical due south I have them mounted on plywood painted with high gloss enamel and that is covered with 1/4 inch reflective sheets I paid $109.00 a panel for 10 new in a box. on a ideal day they produce 45a with 36 v
Hi, nice video and test...but would you get better results by leaving gaps between bifacial and having really thin supports at the top...to get more light in? Worth another try, I think. Cheers!
I'm ignorant or confused, because I don't understand the point of testing bi-facial panels when you've only given them a tiny gap on the bottom. Aren't they supposed to be vertical? Even saying that, maybe (as you mentioned) these panels would benefit most from tilting the panels automatically? I don't know... sorry, just not getting this.
I would love to get solar... wanted it for years, and seems like I'm always waiting for that next big breakthrough.
blue painters tape is not a good way to block light. I tried using this tape to block the leds on my Bluetti b300 batteries and after putting four layers on i went and got some black electrical tape! I could still see the leds even during the day. I would try the test again with something that would actually block the light to the rear of the panels, you may find that 10% you were looking for.....or more.
Yeah, completely blocking the light would be good but not sure I would get much more separation with the panels so low and the front of the panels right on the roof. More testing to come 👍
Blanking the back of bifacials still lets diff wavelengths go through.
If you're playing around with the solar panels for fun and you got the money then go for it, if you think for 1 minute that's spending 50 grand to get enough solar panels and batteries and charge controllers to take you off grid for long periods of time but you might as well hang that s*** up if you consume a lot of power. With solar you're one severe hail storm away from being in the dark again. Solar is fun to play around with if you have money, solar is a good option for people that do not consume a lot of power, but if you consumer a lot of electricity on a daily basis it will not be worth the amount that you're going to pay to install solar, you might as well just pay the electric company
I think your angle of tilt was to shallow to allow light to hit the white roof.
This is not the correct angle to install bifacial panels. Also the masking tape will likely lead to an increase in temperature of the panel and reduction in its performance.
Bifacial panels will be interesting in vertical south east orientation. So many areas they can be installed. And you only lose like 10-15% than an angled monofacial panel. But we have to wait for true bifacial panels since now the back side peak output is around 60% of the peak output of the front.
How do bifacials compare with tracked monofacocial panels?
I’ve got a delta pro + extra battery. I would like to expand my system to two delta and four extra batteries eventually. How many panels could I use and how would I connect these to my current system? Sorry for my ignorance I’m new to solar and just learning. Thanks!
First I would compare your desired expansion to the new Delta Pro Ultra offering. The solar input capability on the Ultra is dramatically more. For a Delta Pro to get the most out of the 1600W solar input capability I would put 3 of these in series and then 2 sets in parallel. That would keep you below the 150V max but when the sun was out your current would be limited to 15 Amps max.
@@everydaysolar what panels and configuration would you recommend to get the 1600 watts of solar to charge my Delta Pro.
The panel is throwing shade on the roof...of course it won't work. 😅
The way you are mounting them is not ideal for bifacials.
If you mounted them so the leading edge was up at least a foot you would let light under the leading edge and to the bottom of the panels
Agreed, thanks for the feedback.
Do i get this right, the bifacial solar panels on average are more efficient than the standard.?
Yeah, but not by much especially with this setup. If mounted on ground mounts and tested over multiple weeks the bifacials should show more gains over the standard panels.
@@everydaysolar not ideal on camper or car roofs.
You should have repeated the same experiment at least twice on other days.
Duh.
You need to let light hit the back of the panels.
There too low. The sun can't get behind them.
You lose too much money on grid tie panels
I saw a video of someone who put bifacial panels vertical to the ground and pointed them east to west. Here's the video if you're curious:
th-cam.com/video/5AVO1IyfA9M/w-d-xo.htmlsi=G252mgnLy0Y6K76A
Blocking a lot of the reflected light with large blocks of wood makes the whole video useless.
You also seem blissfully unaware of just how much heat reduces panel efficiency.
ie: Get your panels off the roof by at least a foot in such a way that:
1: Reflected light can actually get underneath from all sides.
2: Any breazes can actually survive under the panels and cool them.
Is the roof painted with a paint that actually reflects the frequencies of light used by the solar cells?
Barium Sulphate? Titanium Dioxide? Calcium Carbonate? What???
in short: Know the theory before you decide to make a fortune from TH-cam vids or you are nothing more 'fake news'
P r o m o S M
Brah your ladder climb gave me anxiety 😭