My Hourly Wage as a Corporate Lawyer - The SURPRISING Truth
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 เม.ย. 2021
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I earn an incredible salary as a trainee corporate lawyer (£48,000 to be exact)! BUT what does that actually boil down to as an hourly wage? And then how much do I actually end up with when you take into account tax and the cost of living in London? Let's do the relatively basic (but now, embracing my lawyer life, somewhat strenuous) maths 🧐
Money is very much not the be-all and end-all of life. But it is an important part of why anyone does any job, and so I wanted to see how good what seems like an amazing salary on paper ACTUALLY is. Hopefully you enjoy and let me know what you think peeps 🤗
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Who I am:
I'm a trainee lawyer studying in London. I graduated from Cambridge, speak French and Spanish and don’t believe in “natural talent” 😮 BUT... I do believe that TOGETHER, WE ARE ALL CAPABLE OF POSITIVITY, PRODUCTIVITY AND SUCCESS.
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Disclaimer:
Information, views and opinions depicted in this video are my own. Information visible on screens or in documents does not relate to my work as a lawyer for clients.
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according to u which feild of law is good like taxation criminal coorporate property etc
My question is do Barristers(British term for lawyers)have different responsibilities than american lawyers or is there no real substantial difference? I feel that you have better supports than legal professionals here in the states.
Love the transparency with this - us brits aren’t the best about being open with money, but it’s so important to be!
It's universal, no one want/like/comfortable to share their income
@@lillysmith4040 i was thinking the same because here in France we also say that money is tabou
The pay is great but the unearthly hours aren’t justified, I’d much rather get to switch off each day at 5.30, not work weekends and take a slight pay cut
yup. A 20% pay rise for like 50% extra work. Unless you REALLY LOVE this sort of work, it will just burn you out....
@@method341 In those after graduation positions at big or renowned companies it is expected you work long hours for not so great pay but once you get few years in you are going to see huge improvements. After you graduate those jobs aren't as lucrative but they for sure have way higher ceilings than average jobs. And it is huge learning opportunity too. Law schools don't really prepare you for the real job so for certain time there still needs to be someone who will check your work and help you improve and so on. But once you are 5 to 10 years in the difference usually grows massively.
@@Sharakad it doesn't get any easier after a few years. The more money you earn the more responsibilities you have. Instead of grinding away you just end up dealing with management politics and people management. So the physical stress is just replaced by the mental stress the higher up you go.
Don't forget to make a similar video again after 5 years! after you get one or two promotions! :)
... Will do... if I'm not too busy working to get promoted 😂😂😂
@@liam.porritt - Ha ha! :D
I just found your channel and I love it! I've completed my LLB and I'm nearly done with the LPC but with no training contract so as overwhelming it has been your channel is very refreshing and makes me feel motivated to get to work!!
So so glad Sandra! Best of luck with the end of the LPC and I really hope I can continue to help you as you move towards working in law 🤗😊
Lpc and no training contract. You got done by the Lpc provider. They just want yo money. And the teachers at uni who allowed you on to a law course... They too just want to money. Now you in debt. And now you gotta sell ya booty to pay that shit back. Society may have just fucked ya. Good luck kid.
I loved that graphic of you writing the hours down and doing the math that way!
Thanks so much Demetri!!
Dude, you are the finest and the best social media lawyer period.
I really like you breaking this down!!! I dont actually keep track of my hours so I'm going to try to next week and see how much my hourly wage would be!!
Thanks Sam - oooh, yeh do! Would love to hear how your hourly wage compares when you've done it!? :)
Just found the channel today, instant sub! Currently finishing 2nd year of law at Sussex and sending out so many applications. Your videos seem like a real glimpse into the future!
I am very happy to see that my mobile wallpaper and cover are exactly the same as yours! 👍
love your videos thanks for all the lovely content
Glad you like them! Thank you!
Keep the records for the future too. I have mine (written, not video) from the 1980s onwards and it is fascinating to see how things change and how things were. I had a baby as a trainee without maternity leave and worked full time. We spent 50% of each of our net pay in that first year on full time childcare costs and most of the rest on commuting costs (could not afford rent close to work sadly in those days) and food and housing. That baby and the others were worth it, though. When I moved to working for myself and in effect keeping the hourly rate it is even better.
It is so nice and ambitious seeing you smiling for real after such a long time of hard work and studies. Your efforts are being paid of!! Personally, it gives me motivation to keep going on!! I study Physics!
Thank you so much 😀 Keep going bud!!
Love your voice, very soothing.♥️
Thanks for the video, it was so informative and well-structured!! This is a bit random, but do you think you can do a video talking about Law Apprenticeships? And whether they are better ot worse than the traditional route? I think it could be a cool video!!
Thanks so much Aseel! And thank you for the recommendation - ummm, I mean I can try and find someone who has done a law apprenticeship to talk about that as I'm a bit embarrassed to say it's not something I really know anything about! I'll look into it :p
@@liam.porritt Thank you so much!! That would be so helpful, its usually because a lot of people don't ever know that you have other options besides university, so I think the idea of being able to choose an equally respectable road that isn't university is actually cool!!
This is flawed really because you cannot account for the cost of living in london and accomodation, without recognising the increase in salary ratio. You would not be on 48k as a trainee outside of london so it's a bit of a moot expense.
I decided at the grand old age of 28 that I’m going to study a bachelors degree in law with the Open University in October! (I live in the west of Scotland) And I have got to say, after watching a lot of vids (good and bad)...
I really still want to do it!!
When all of a sudden the passion for study comes out of genuine interest (especially when I hated it before) it’s gotta be for a reason! Haha I’m starting my journey a little later on than most but sometimes it takes a little longer to figure things out I reckon 😜 lol cheers for the video’s Liam. I thought I’d share a wee bit with you since you’ve shared so much with us!
Keep up the good work pal 👍🏻
David
Good luck David :)
Hi David. The age of 28 is not old at all. Go for it!
Great news David and the greatest of luck to you!!!
Big up T Wells 😊🙌🏻
respect for holding a corp law job and doing TH-cam too, that's a sub from me!
There is a very high attrition rate amongst corporate lawyers in London. Probably half the trainee lawyers at Magic Circle firms will not be in corporate law after 10 years……
They've usually made a shed load of money by that point that's why...
@@veyblu7 enough to probably start a business and probably enough competency to run it lol
As an ex Londoner now living in Canada. 48K is nothing for that type of job. I left England 28 years ago and i earned 30K as a low level manager for a major retailer. I'm shocked but well done. I subbed you..
He will make ~100k once his training ends tho
@@eagleeye7853 that was trainee salary ? Wow
Even with the 100k bump up in pay and the 70 hour weeks seems like a low hourly rate for the amount of work and sacrifice.
This is really why you have to work for your passion and not for someone else.. because really working these hours for someone else doing something you DONT ABSOLUTELY love is just really a waste of life... just my opinion though..... plus a two week leave in a year, it really is kind of a trap
But this is for a Trainee though. His vacation days could increase when he actually qualifies.
In the UK the minimum annual leave is 28 days. 8 of those are "bank holidays" which have to be taken on fixed days - and the other 20 days are essentially 4 weeks you can take whenever you want (although there's often an obligation to use quite a few of those at Christmas because the office will be shut). I wouldn't be surprised if this kind of company offers fractionally more than the minimum 28 days. His hours honestly don't sound that bad considering what he's being paid at such a young age. He can do this for a few years, get onto that big money (£100k type money) and then he'll have the choice to make an exit into a more cushy job if he wants to - perhaps as part of a big company's internal law department which might involve fewer hours and good holiday etc. He's on a good path. I think it's really the US firms that really rinse people - obligation to work 70+ hours and little holiday.
@@scrumpoxjnr I’m pretty sure when a company says “annual leave” it doesn’t include public holidays. That was just be strange.
@@hellow4130 Lots of companies could require you to work on the "bank holidays" though - for example in retail or in hospitality. They still have to give you 28 days though. So that is the minimum annual leave
brb just going to go and work out mine now haha, you've sparked my curiosity 😂
😂😂... And!? Are you richer or poorer than me Simran!? 😝
@@liam.porritt defo poorer ahahaha 😔🤟🏽
@@simranjeetkmann
But you're a trainee corporate lawyer? Does the salary vary across law firms?
@@craigsamuel7320 yuppp it varies! mine is lower than Liam's
@@simranjeetkmann
Oh wow, what law firm do you work at?
Do you know why there's a variation across law firms, when it comes to salaries?
What's terrible is that the law firm charges you out at £300/hr
The level of investment these firms put in trainees definitely offsets the negative connotations of this
That 300 per hour will also cover floor space and support staff salary, so a paralegal, maybe a secretary. The firm probably also pays a decent pension contribution, and obviously some profit has to be made at the end.
You inspire me to be a hospitality lawyer
That's very interesting. Should take it one step further and calculate billable hours and hourly rate. At the end, you can determine if you want to continue working for a firm or start your own practice after training period.
well now im tempted to move to london
I was an E5 in the US Military in the early 2010s stationed near London, making around $2400/month and had my housing covered, and still felt broke in London.
Same thing for chartered accountants,, but it is all about future earnings. Thanks for “brilliant”.
Informative viewing ! I’m Graduating soon & I really hope you’re enjoying it x
This was super interesting because I looked up average pays between London and Seattle, USA, and Londoners are so much less compensated compared to Seattle residents adjusted for the currency differences. Cheers man thanks for the video.
But he's just a trainee though
@@dopamineforyou5341 Sure. I looked up actual income distributions in general and for specific jobs.
Forgot to charge them for rental of your office space.
Being a beginning lawyer is like being a beginning medical doctor. In fact most nurses make more than a 1st year medical doctor, most don't realize that - at least here in the states. In the US after medical school there is a 5 year residency. During the residency the medical doctor is paid about $55,000 per year, £40,965. However, the earning potential post 5 years, is much greater... so in the beginning it is a financial sacrifice, however it does pay off in the end.
it's wild watching this with the US perspective of how much income inequality there is here. A starting teacher might make like $40k in a major city, while a starting lawyer depending on public vs. private sector would be $50k - $120k. And my god a dentist would be way above that.
As a dentist I disagree. I am from Australia (Melbourne) and have worked as a private dentist ever since graduating ie 8 years ago and how much each private dentist earns really varies but I would say I make on average $60-80k maximum per year if I am lucky, much less last year due to covid so we had 7-8 lockdowns. Personally I spend half/more of my income on courses and other work related expenses like income insurance, professional indemnity, work instruments and radiation licenses etc.. but I don’t have kids and while I live with my partner we have no mortgage yet as I insisted it wasn’t be worth it at the moment. So in summary I think while it is helpful sometimes to stereotype different professions into how much they earn I do find it annoying how a lot of people seem to think dentist earn a lot but fail to realise unlike eg a GP medical doctor there a lot of fixed expenses dentist have to pay for a like a dental assistant or professional indemnity etc..
Starting lawyer at a big law firm in the states would make anywhere from 150-200k a year with a 10-20k bonus yearly bonus on top. But the trade off is about 100k or so in debt for law school and a working around 60 hours a week on average.
No way, you lived in Tunbridge Wells! I currently go to Skinners.
Haha - love it Matthew :)
Thats crazy, here in America i make 21 an hour(other job) and after tax i only take home 2200 at the end of the month
$205,000 per year, or 150,000 pounds, first year associate at Skadden Arps at all their US offices. But hours will be longer, maybe 60 to 80 hours per week.
more like 100 hours a week
Thank you so much for sharing with us the reality. I'm also curious if a 60-80 working week (not billing hr) is normal for a trainee in big law. That means a potential 10hr workload for each day. 😳How about the actual billing hour for that week?
This is very enlightening.I always thought lawyers make tons of money. What are the current working hours like and do you have to work from home?
Be sure to maintain the work-life balance and give us more interesting insights into the legal profession.
Yep - working from home at the moment :) It has been a tough last month or so, with the hours having been even more intense than what I said in this video - we're talking 60-80 hour weeks, which I've found really difficult at times! But trying to make sure I have some time to see friends and relax over the weekend, balancing life with my channel and job :) Thanks as always and I'll definitely try to make more videos sharing insights into my job!
he used post-tax salaries though... which is a bit weird.
At true, but regional lawyers are paid nowhere near as much as London lawyers...
Yep - agreed, I was just trying to factor in how much of my salary goes on living in London :)
Love you
Could you share the link for your blue light block glasses?
Next up, how much it costs to run a law firm...because the fee earner gets a small proportion of fees earned. A lot of law firms have huge loans and overdrafts and it is just a cash flow business ie can you service your commitments from your earn rate.
Man when its broken down hourly it really doesn't seem worth the pain
God, and I complain about my Swiss salary as a cross-border. I lived in London for 14 years and I barely survived working for a medium-sized law firm. I wish I had your energy, Liam. Well done.
Hi! I am LLM student in Finland. At this moment 1st year associates earn about 4400 euros (3800 pounds in current rates) at bigger law firms in Helsing. Associate trainees about 0,75 of that. Salary/costs of living ratio are about the same as you have with your partner. However, you can get mortgage soon after graduation and pay about same amount of money in monthly loan payments instead of rent with 20-25 years loan. Bonuses are about 0,5 - 3 x monthly salary. I was surprised how much you have to pay taxes and insurance with that salary in England.
This is really insightful - thanks so much for sharing :)
Ouch those hours… was hoping the pay would make up for it
Now imagine what it's like for someone trying to live in London on minimum wage
Yes, being a lawyer or solicitor in U.K. doesn’t earn you a fortune, never will. If we were to make a fortune in terms of a job, running own business or being an investor will be the route. My friend being a business owner for a restaurant, he works 6 days a week from 9am to 9 pm, within 5 years time, he purchased two houses in Cornwall.
So yes, being a solicitor is good in social status and fame. In end, we work for a cause, not entirely for money, however, most of us forgot why we chose this profession or any other profession in the beginning, sadly to say. 💪👍
So I think it’s vital to know what you get and what you lose by what we do for work, and why as well as if it’s worth it.
stupid, there is nothing like working for a cause, and he will be earning like double when his training ends, stop trying to justify the fact that others are more successful than you will be
Hey, thanks for doing the math. Knowing that you’ll earn £100K next year must be great :D. But I’ve got a question, how big is your law firm(employee wise) and are you working in big law?
He's employed in the biggest law firm in the world by size (Clifford Chance). Currently, in my opinion, he is a under a trainee solicitor contract and it'll convert next year paying him almost 2.5 times the current salary. :)
Interesting! Thanks for sharing. I'd love to know how you track your time at work?
Read the book "The Apprentice", real good insight on how lawyers start. I rather be software dveeloiper
Hi, just wondering does 'Goldam and Co Solicitors' employ Corporate lawyers?. I don't know how to figure it out and hope you do.
You should rly do a discounted cash flow calculation for your earnings over the next 20 years 😂
It does not really matter how much money you make, but how much everything costs around you.
If you earn blah and the cost of living is very high, about as high as your salary, then you are essentially living paycheck to paycheck. No savings. No investment. Heck, not even retirement.
Now, cost of living can range widely. Some people are satisfied with a very minimalistic lifestyle, while others just have to spend the extra costs on stuff.
But, in general, please just post a video about this in relation to your cost of living and whether lifestyle makes you happy.
Those 3 things (salary, cost of living, personal happiness) are very important factors.
You can make a high salary, but your cost of living is also sky-high, which decreases your happiness.
You can make a low salary, but it is just enough to support your lifestyle, and you are happy right where you are.
So, it varies.
Well if some of the work hours are for training, then it’s a gain
Mate - you live in T Wells then you have to add in c.£417 (out if your net salary) a month for the train a month plus tube out to CW. That’s not pricing in the arseache of the commute. Trust me - London is worth the £ (until you get sprogging).
Wait? nurses in the UK get paid a only 12 pounds/hr? OMG! Thats so sad. In the US (in my state) a new nurse gets paid $32/hr which is about 22 pounds/hr. And this is the pay for nurse in med/surg. ICU, ER, NICU get paid so much more. CRNA gets paid around 130,000 pounds/yr. It is so cheap being a nurse in the UK.
Nurses in the USA make alot. If they did Nursing as an undergraduate degree, they then need to take a State licensed exam. They can make 6 figures here easily.
Because it’s public sector unlike the US.
That would be junior entry level nurse in UK.
hello! i got to hear that corporate lawyers in big law firms (Magic Circle ones) have little to no work/life balance, is that true?
Liam, do you know if there is a way we can find how much Cliford pays in other countries? Such as Belgium? In the website of Cliford in other countries there is no record from what i have seen.
Damn, salaries in Britain are crap all around. $29.50/hr. to be a dentist? That's a dental assistant's salary in the US. You're also living in London. Do people there live in 200 sq. ft. boxes?
Yes the accommodation sucks too. Healthcare roles are primarily public-sector due to the NHS.
Very interesting, I thought you were pay x hour and not a fixed amount. Is there any limitation in hours per week/month or they could potentially make you work as much as they need? Have a great evening🤗
Thank you! Nope - a fixed amount, and not really - they can kinda make us work as much as they want, except that obviously they want us to keep working there, so have to try and balance getting us to work hard with not making us miserable and not want to continue in the profession :p
4k more than me!
Did you pass the Bar to get that job?
Why is it that the same role in the US pays 4 times as much?
That looks like $64,000/year. Is the cost of living that low in London? Because here in America, a lawyer of your status would make $220,000/year.
What is your hourly charge-out rate?
Your work time is that from when you arrive at the office.
It bad so a nine your day then..
That’s quite easy to be honest..
I honestly hate law - did a module in my master's in real estate finance - trying to get into private equity now, but find these money and career videos interesting. One thing for sure is UK salaries suck compared to US. I am currently in UK.
Are you genuinely happy?
I've got some further bad news...there are more than 4 weeks in a month!
That sounds about the same as what I've heard. The money is about the same in Paris. Tbh £2800 in London really isn't great, especially considering that all solicitors have to go through 1 year of LPC where you get paid nothing. It's tough.
Why would you need to get paid during the LPC? It’s a part of your schooling to become a solicitor.
@@hellow4130 Well technically you've graduated from college when you do the LPC so it's normal that people want to get paid.
These hours shock me, not gonna lie....
These are pretty average I think in corporate law, and it definitely can fluctuate down to more like 40 hours a week, but also up to 80 :)
Really? These hours are on the low side.
Bro my cousin work free as a lawyer for someone. ( Training ) . In india this is life 😞
This is similar to the situation here in South Africa, most graduates are struggling to secure Training contracts so they're opting to do their articles for free just so they could get admitted as legal practitioners... pretty sad
That is really tough and a sad situation for all - the world is crazily competitive and it feels to me, hearing stuff like this, that things can't continue to put pressure on the very bottom of the chain to make ever greater sacrifices!!
And that’s why no one likes india
@@texasowl5356 well atleast our kids don't shoot each other in schools.
Could you please help.me by answering my query that can an Indian law graduate could apply to a london based law firms? And if yes than how
You’d most likely have to pass a certain test to be able to practice law in the UK
i don't understand how you make £4k a month on a 48k salary after tax.
I've added up on a salary calculator and it doesn't add up
Obviously gross income. Probably nearer 2.5k after tax/student loans etc
meanwhile -> a deliveroo driver works....
Work life balance is ridiculous in corporate law
48K pounds or 65K usd per year is considered low income in the San Francisco Bay Area. In the Bay Area many corp lawyers are earing 230K usd or 169K pounds per year. Cost of living must be cheap where you are living.
He’s trainee
It's a completely different system in England for legal training.
Gosh...this pay is not good.
lol what. I made MORE as a non skilled assistant in construction.
Hi . Are you still in your trainee year
Anyone know where he went to Uni?
Im a student in university who works as a part time security officer in the United States and I make 18 Dollars a hr. Never did I in a million years think a corporate lawyer make a 48000 salary
well thats 66,5k$ and he is a TRAINEE, he is not a fully independent lawyer yet, and his taxes include free health care
@@glancestewart3955 cost of living in the UK is also much lower than in the US. A 50k salary in the UK is probably comparable to a 100k salary in the US.
@@isseahmed3324 don't understand what you're talking about? First, our currency in the UK is pounds not euros. Secondly I was talking about equivalent salaries vs cost of living, not direct currency conversion. For example, groceries and food are ridiculously cheap in the UK compared to the US.
@@glancestewart3955 you’re right that makes sense but the base salary even for a trainee in the US for example engineering my major is 65k which still isn’t that bad. I was just thinking about how a single person could get by you when added the cost of living and expenses.
@@SamJ596 I have family which live in the UK and have visited the country many times. Cost of living is very high compared to the US. Besides major city like New York, California and Houston ever other major city is cheap, healthcare is free and students which are residents are given free grants to attend college.
00:10 "I dont know why I decided to see my hourly wage compared to others".. Well... The reason is is that our whole life is based on comparison with others... We want to know what we are worth and what is our value and sadly we base this upon others... I am worth more and so I am better than him... And that is our sad life.... We have been taught comparison from school to uni to work... To be better means I am worth more... Why do we compare.... Because really we are nothing and so we compete to become someone and sooner or later we will realise we are just an empty shell.
We also compare because we feel others are taking advantage of us... The partners of Clifford Chance are taking advantage... But don't worry... Their lives are also insecure in bringing in the money and competing with other partners... Their insecurity trickles down and becomes your insecurity.
Get out quick. They cannot value someone who can think for themselves... Hahaha.
Quick question. Do you have to fill in time sheets at the end of each week?
You make $27.50 an hour. Fast food workers in the US make $20 in some places. I make $57 an hour in law enforcement and I pay less per month to own a much larger house. That's insane.
He's a trainee lawyer. He's gonna make 100k as a starting wage in a few months.
My friend earned more working in retail. lmao
@Liam Porritt can I get in touch with you sir?
Will you please be my mentor please 🙏
imagine being on a computer and getting up to get a calculator
Lol
Is this typical of an entry-level Lawyer? Do you know if US Lawyers make more or less? I am asking because my brother is thinking about law school, and asked me to research the career opportunities. To me this seems very low, even for entry level, but I am not sure if it works different in the UK versus the US. Or am I wrong in my conversion? Is 48k pounds is just under 70k USD?
@Dnomyar Akunawik Oh I see, is school still 7 years?
@@brianjdyck5541For law? No, in England a law degree takes 3 years to complete.
💸
Ever speak to the client lol?
That’s salary isn’t that much tbh, below average for someone your age in the city
48k ??!?!!? Yeah there is no way I am putting graft blood sweat and tears into my law degree to be earning that IM DROPPING OUT
He's a trainee, qualified lawyers get 100k plus
Just be a public defender or Assistant judge it will wayyyyyy better because you name your price and the more the is corrupt a country is and has high crime rate the more you will be wealthy.
Is 48k good?
48k is jack shit dude. I made over 100k a new grad software engineer. 50k and you are living in poverty in London.
I don’t envious of your stressful job. However I am glad you enjoy your job . The corporate office environment is so overrated ..
hunk!
Are u working remote / hybrid / Office 100%