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Invalidating Trans Men: Why I Dislike Leslie Feinberg
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 มี.ค. 2022
- A critique of Leslie Feinberg, Amos Mac and other authors whose works try to water down the experiences of transgender men throughout history.
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![In the Life: Interview with Kate Bornstein, Leslie Feinberg [unedited footage]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/K_Aqmaq_a2U/mqdefault.jpg)
![In the Life: Interview with Kate Bornstein, Leslie Feinberg [unedited footage]](/img/tr.png)
stone butch blues is not "representation for trans men". it's based off of feinberg's own experiences and throughout the book jess NEVER identifies as a man. she repeatedly feels uncomfortable with the fact that she's forced to pass as a man for her own safety. it's not a glorification of detransition because jess isn't a trans man, nor is she ever wrong about her wants and needs. she wants hormones and surgery for her dysphoria and she needs to pass to survive.
and butch and femme are not heteronormative, holy shit, what exactly about two women (or two men, as it happened in different scenes) is heteronormative? the negative aspect of the roles, as in their rigidity, is the one thing that's rejected by the end of the book. in the last two chapters jess apologises for questioning frankie's butchness for being into other butches and it's mentioned that grant, who was the one most obsessed with butch and femme being rigid roles, is also into butches and possibly bisexual. on page 300 it's even mentioned that jess is into femme men!
top and bottom and femme and butch (which don't always coincide, another thing that is addressed in the book) are just preferences and identities that not everyone fits into.
go after the people who portray leslie as a trans man, not after leslie hirself.
Omg! Thank you! Why would anyone dislike hir? Ze was wonderful 😢
There was a Trans Man in the book that Jess looked upto and wanted to be like. Leslie wrote that the person in the book had taken hormones and had top surgery even way back then. I feel sad that Women feel the need to mutilate thier beautiful bodys as a lesbian. I love butch woman and wish there were more in this world. I came out of the book hoping Jess would finally find a fem to thaw out her cold stone.
@@samsalamander8147 are you lost
@@LacerationGravity no, I’m talking about Stone Butch Blues I just read it. There was a part in the book where Jess falls in love with her friends girlfriend because her friend tells her the reason she left her was because she wouldn’t let her touch her and the woman who left prides herself on always thawing stone butches but the woman she fell in love that was her friends girlfriend that left her had a previous lover that would come looking for her often and he was a trans man. It distinctly said in the book that Jess looked upto to him because he was on hormones, had a beard and had his breasts surgically removed. If anything Leslie was inclusive to trans people in her book and I’m wondering what this person is even mad at? Leslie was part of the reason camp Mich was shut down she left and joined Camp trans across the street in solidarity. My comment was essentially agreeing with you but furthering the conversation. I’m sorry did you forget how a comment section works or did you forget what the video was about because you watched it 5 months ago and have some type of memory issue?
@@samsalamander8147 no need to get snarky, i misunderstood your comment because usually when people say "I feel sad that Women feel the need to mutilate thier beautiful bodys" they mean it in a transphobic way
The utter disrespect you have for the people that built the movement that modern day trans and gnc benefit from!
Damn did you even read the book? -a transgender man
Why would you expect a book called Stone Butch Blues to be about the experiences of trans men? Leslie Feinberg is clearly not writing from that perspective, nor is SBB intended to do so. If someone else told you that SBB is about that, that's not Leslie Feinbergs fault.
I don’t know anything about the Mack guy you’re talking about, as far as Leslie goes, I feel you’ve misunderstood Stone Butch Blues, it wasn’t written to be seen as Prime Example for trans men, it was about the complex identities of a gnc butch transitioning for safety and navigating identity in a time period in which being butch wasn’t safe either, if anything it explores how gnc people are sometimes forced into life paths based on the bigotry of society. I also find the splitting of hairs in the trans community to be useless as far as man/masc woman/fem because from my experience the hatred and discrimination I experience is something I have in common with gnc folks, other trans men, trans mascs, and trans women alike. There are definitely conversations and spaces meant for people talking about there particular experiences like hrt or legal discrimination, but to say that transmascs and transmen should be divided and distinct continues to erase and marginalize those who hold more complex spaces and identities. I have some pretty radical ideas in general though that aren’t always popular opinion either.
Exactly
100%
Hey trans guy here! I think you may have misinterpreted a lot of Leslie’s work. Maybe read some of their other work? In no way does she invalidate transmen but highlights the overlap between lesbianism and the fluidity of masculinity and gender in general.
this person seems very wrapped up in their own experiences and their own terminology preferences
The book was rather about Transmasculinity within Lesbian Culture, Gendernonconformity & Butchness. I think everyone, Lesbian or not, should give it a read, because it highlights the complex experiences of what many other Butches such as Leslie had to go through at the time. Feinberg never idendified as a man throughout her life. The people who mistake the book as representation for trans men, are getting caught up in their own Interpretation and are missing the point of what Stone Butch Blues is supposed to represent.
This, she in no way invalidates trans men, she simply had a very different experience based on time period and sexuality and how that interfaces with her own sense of gender
I’m sad to see this video. She stood up for trans people for decades. The book is a novel. 👎🏿👎🏿👎🏿👎🏿👎🏿
stone butch blues isn't meant to be a representation of trans men, throughout her life feinberg never idenditied as a man. go after the people who misinterpret her as a trans man, not leslie feinberg herself. also, the book was set in a completly different time, gender terminology & spaces for queer people have evolved over the past years. it's the 21st century now and much of what has been in the past can't be applied to today anymore.
Your video doesn’t justify the title at all. Have you read stone butch blues???
Butch-Femme dynamics have nothing to do with heteronormativity - that's a superficial heteronormative uninformed reading. Plus not even every cis man likes other men, that has nothing to do with being a man. Plus Leslie is dead - so Leslie doesn't talk for anyone anymore. Being critical with manhood is a feminist thing, so.. Also
Leslie didn't went to Michfest, look it up. Here's a video on TH-cam where Leslie talks about about the Michfest.
I think there is a confusion about the term "trans masc," at least what it's meant whenever I've seen it used. Trans masc is short for trans masculine, and it includes all gender that fall under the masculine umbrella. This includes trans men without excluding trans people who have a relationship with masculinity that society didn't force on them. The term is one that's meant for community, not further division.
I would encourage you to read more about the context around stone butch blues and the time period it was set in, as well as more about Leslie’s life and hir politics, like checking out some lectures or talks leslie gave. Like some other commenters have said stone butch blues just might not resonate with you and that’s fine.
People should really do their research before they form baseless opinions that hold no weight or water in reality. Your own projections and lack of research, understanding, and education are why people are upset with what you’re saying.
Dislike 👎
They beating you up in these comments lil bro😭
I might be wrong but isn't every trans man also trans masc? I thought trans men fall under the category of trans masc
wow... i was looking for people discussing stone butch blues because i have nobody to talk with about it and value critical opinions. this is probably the coldest and least thoughtful take i could have found. have you read the book? it sounds like you're passing judgments on the author based on someone else's retelling of the plot. leslie feinberg was an activist and wrote a lot more than one novel. maybe you should do some more research.
Im so late but thank you for being reasonable and normal unlike everyone else
Thank you! I will never understand the cult of Leslie
Really interesting video ! As a French guy, Stone Buch Blues doesn't have the same impact here but yeah, reading it I never felt like I was reading the story of a trans man, more like a nb butch/trans masc lesbian. Never really understood why they were talked about as such a great trans icon. For me the book is interesting in matter of lesbian history and gender non-conformity at the start of medical transition, not in trans history or even representation.
Like you, I think the difference between trans masc and trans men need to exist more clearly. Too many trans men are in a relationship of hate/defiance towards men, as if they weren't part of them. As if they were profoundly different because of their og assignation. Hearing that sort of discours feel a lot like hearing "trans men are not real men". Perhaps letting themself be trans masc instead would let the place to trans men to explore and integrate men spaces, instead of like, constantly mocking and criticizing them ? Idk if I'm clear
Thankfully Stone Butch Blues is mostly now in the internet, rather spread wide as it once was, but this being the internet, had to be discussed. I see your point, I was told that it's an important trans man piece and should be treated as such, maybe if I saw it with different eyes, another outcome would be made. But alas, I'm not reading it again.
I know what you mean, I have heard that plenty of trans people prefer to idenitify as NB in order to not mingle with binary cis people. I don't know or understand why. Personally, I feel like there should be a place for binary dudes, nb and binary, nb only and well, whatever else is needed:) but either way no one should be policing the other, even though we're all guilty of it sometimes.
@@plasticveinsbible Stone Butch Blues is a very raw and real story. These lines with gender nonconformity and being trans are not hard lines, stone butch blues is a representation of an important part of trans and queer history even if they arent experiences you identify with. You complain that people should speak for themselves but you want to tell others how they can use these terms for themselves or how they can write about their experiences.
you do know you can be lesbian and still be trans right... specifically transmasc. they were still a trans icon regardless of whether or not you agree with their specific classification.
YOU ARE FABULOUS!!!!
Thank you!!!