QUESTION: Would any of you know if the RWS decks from the 1909-1920s were the first to be commercially available in England (by "commercial" I suppose they mean "for the masses"?), as well as in the world in general? If only in England, does anyone know who or what was the first internationally?
I prefer the whole RWS, too, although I know I sometimes drop one of the names when I'm talking quickly without thinking too much! I know people are getting in to the "Smith Waite" as a compromise, but to me that refers specifically to the Smith-Waite Centennial deck, not the RWS in general. I enjoyed hearing about the importance of Rider in how presentation and distribution.
My facts are all secondary so far :) From Helen Farley's book, Cynthia Giles', and the people at Waite Smith dot org as well as World of Playing Cards dot co dot UK. They seem to have done their research properly from what I can see :D I am always open to be convinced otherwise of course :D That is the only way to add to one's understanding of things I'd say :D But for now, yeah, I am comfortable with my choice :D You know what, I actually find it easier to say "Rider Waite Smith" because that is a total of four syllables (I think?). While RWS is five LOL :P
I really did want to know why :-) In a word, synergy, I think you are saying is what I've finally come to as well. So I have gone from RWS to Smith-Waite to Waite-Smith and now back to RWS. My argument in the past would've been these three issues: (1) Pamela not being mentioned until page 67 in "The Pictorial Key to the Tarot", but mentioned none the less (2) The Fool card description on page 114: "...he surveys the blue distance before him--it's expanse of sky..." yet the sky is always some shade of yellow, so in my meager mind I took that to mean that Pamela embraced her own thoughts and designs ignoring Art (that old fuddy-duddy, lol) (3) Pamela's last name is Smith ... say no more :-) Thank you for sharing this ... it sure took a while to get back to where I was already.
Heh :P Yes, synergy. Somehow, I have always felt from the very beginning, (which is not that long ago, only 3.5 years ago), that it is appropriate for all three to be immortalized in this manner. I can understand that it is trickier to treat the name of a company or a corporation in the same manner, as names of corporations can extend to more years than any humans' can. So much so that it often experienced enough evolution to render it so far removed from the original, that it might as well be called something else. But. Personally, for me, from the limited understanding that I have of the story of the RWS, Mr. Rider (and sons?) seemed to have sufficiently earned himself a position in history, beyond the brand name that he seemed to have became (especially now under Random House).... I dunno.... I am just one woman thinking out loud, as I always say :)
It was very well thought out for "just one woman thinking out loud" ... when I do that words go flying every which way but never match what I was really thinking :-)
The benefit of wrestling in the Liberal Arts department for many years speaking, reading, and writing in a language that was not my own. Ha! And they say Liberal Arts qualifications were not worth the paper they were printed on! :P (They probably aren't!) :D
Are you telling me not everyone refers to this particular artwork as Rider-Waite-Smith? In my fairly shallow but long interest on the tarot (almost 2 thirds of my life, I'm barely a quarter of a century) I have never not referred to this deck as RWS except for the radiant, universal and albano which I only started to differentiate around 9 years ago when I decided it really wasn't the style of deck for me.
Some use the term "Rider" tarot, some "Rider Waite", some "Waite Smith" :) I sometimes say "Waite's Tarot" when talking in relation to "Crowley's Tarot" (instead of "Thoth Tarot" or "Crowley's Thoth" because I am not sure if there is another kind of "thoth tarot", namely Etteilla's :)
I have to laugh at some people ( mostly indoctrinated feminist ) who take an issue with "craftsmen" or any of the clearly obvious heavy work skills or ( non heavy work) where it's a males natural talent & strengths ( there are differences in the genders natural abilities, we both have our roles ) to get the job done due to physical & certain mental strengths in both genders. Even the word "mankind" and how our Bible uses the word MAN to describe both MAN & woMAN. The silly unresearched feminist who take issue with such gender titles & how they are used says more about their own level of knowledge & logic...they fallen into the trap of division. It's all petty storm in a tea cup. Pamela Coleman Smith gets more recognition then Rider Waite or whatever there correct names are. I see & hear more about Pam the Artist then Rider Waite the designer.... Feminists will never be happy.
Hello. This is a 4 year old video and I can’t remember what I said or what position in terms of tarot I still hold today, or not. But thank you for the comment. A few things: (1) There are feminists and there are “feminists”. Not to mention the generational separation within feminism and what each stood for, and stands for. (2) English is my second language, and I grew up in a non English non European non western culture. Language is culture coded in words. For a moment English speaker which mother tongue priced higher the importance of age and social hierarchy rather than gender, the English language can stand out very much in their emphasis on gender separation. So within this context, my awareness of the gendered English terms has more to do with the differences in world views between my own and that of the English language. (3) I have A LOT to say about English Bible translations. But this isn’t the right forum. Thank you for the conversation!
QUESTION: Would any of you know if the RWS decks from the 1909-1920s were the first to be commercially available in England (by "commercial" I suppose they mean "for the masses"?), as well as in the world in general? If only in England, does anyone know who or what was the first internationally?
hmm interesting question. I wonder if Mary K Greer has info o this.
PS you are such a tease showing the decks and not doing a comparison yet..lol ;-P
LOL I actually have started uploading that comparison video and somehow it failed to upload so I am trying again now :D
I prefer the whole RWS, too, although I know I sometimes drop one of the names when I'm talking quickly without thinking too much! I know people are getting in to the "Smith Waite" as a compromise, but to me that refers specifically to the Smith-Waite Centennial deck, not the RWS in general. I enjoyed hearing about the importance of Rider in how presentation and distribution.
My facts are all secondary so far :) From Helen Farley's book, Cynthia Giles', and the people at Waite Smith dot org as well as World of Playing Cards dot co dot UK. They seem to have done their research properly from what I can see :D I am always open to be convinced otherwise of course :D That is the only way to add to one's understanding of things I'd say :D But for now, yeah, I am comfortable with my choice :D You know what, I actually find it easier to say "Rider Waite Smith" because that is a total of four syllables (I think?). While RWS is five LOL :P
Oh yes, I say "Rider Waite Smith", but write RWS, too!
:D
I really did want to know why :-) In a word, synergy, I think you are saying is what I've finally come to as well. So I have gone from RWS to Smith-Waite to Waite-Smith and now back to RWS. My argument in the past would've been these three issues:
(1) Pamela not being mentioned until page 67 in "The Pictorial Key to the Tarot", but mentioned none the less
(2) The Fool card description on page 114: "...he surveys the blue distance before him--it's expanse of sky..." yet the sky is always some shade of yellow, so in my meager mind I took that to mean that Pamela embraced her own thoughts and designs ignoring Art (that old fuddy-duddy, lol)
(3) Pamela's last name is Smith ... say no more :-)
Thank you for sharing this ... it sure took a while to get back to where I was already.
Heh :P Yes, synergy. Somehow, I have always felt from the very beginning, (which is not that long ago, only 3.5 years ago), that it is appropriate for all three to be immortalized in this manner. I can understand that it is trickier to treat the name of a company or a corporation in the same manner, as names of corporations can extend to more years than any humans' can. So much so that it often experienced enough evolution to render it so far removed from the original, that it might as well be called something else. But. Personally, for me, from the limited understanding that I have of the story of the RWS, Mr. Rider (and sons?) seemed to have sufficiently earned himself a position in history, beyond the brand name that he seemed to have became (especially now under Random House).... I dunno.... I am just one woman thinking out loud, as I always say :)
It was very well thought out for "just one woman thinking out loud" ... when I do that words go flying every which way but never match what I was really thinking :-)
The benefit of wrestling in the Liberal Arts department for many years speaking, reading, and writing in a language that was not my own. Ha! And they say Liberal Arts qualifications were not worth the paper they were printed on! :P (They probably aren't!) :D
Are you telling me not everyone refers to this particular artwork as Rider-Waite-Smith? In my fairly shallow but long interest on the tarot (almost 2 thirds of my life, I'm barely a quarter of a century) I have never not referred to this deck as RWS except for the radiant, universal and albano which I only started to differentiate around 9 years ago when I decided it really wasn't the style of deck for me.
Some use the term "Rider" tarot, some "Rider Waite", some "Waite Smith" :) I sometimes say "Waite's Tarot" when talking in relation to "Crowley's Tarot" (instead of "Thoth Tarot" or "Crowley's Thoth" because I am not sure if there is another kind of "thoth tarot", namely Etteilla's :)
Nobody Here that was fast :) you have a lovely voice by the way, currently literally watching another of your videos
hector roberto contreras miranda Haha yah I need to get a life 😝 Spending too much time online 😬
Considering there will be a different "Waite" deck available in the near future, the descriptive distinction seems extra practicle;)
Not just practical, but EXTRA practical :P
I have to laugh at some people ( mostly indoctrinated feminist ) who take an issue with "craftsmen" or any of the clearly obvious heavy work skills or ( non heavy work) where it's a males natural talent & strengths ( there are differences in the genders natural abilities, we both have our roles ) to get the job done due to physical & certain mental strengths in both genders. Even the word "mankind" and how our Bible uses the word MAN to describe both MAN & woMAN. The silly unresearched feminist who take issue with such gender titles & how they are used says more about their own level of knowledge & logic...they fallen into the trap of division. It's all petty storm in a tea cup. Pamela Coleman Smith gets more recognition then Rider Waite or whatever there correct names are. I see & hear more about Pam the Artist then Rider Waite the designer.... Feminists will never be happy.
Hello. This is a 4 year old video and I can’t remember what I said or what position in terms of tarot I still hold today, or not. But thank you for the comment.
A few things:
(1) There are feminists and there are “feminists”. Not to mention the generational separation within feminism and what each stood for, and stands for.
(2) English is my second language, and I grew up in a non English non European non western culture. Language is culture coded in words. For a moment English speaker which mother tongue priced higher the importance of age and social hierarchy rather than gender, the English language can stand out very much in their emphasis on gender separation. So within this context, my awareness of the gendered English terms has more to do with the differences in world views between my own and that of the English language.
(3) I have A LOT to say about English Bible translations. But this isn’t the right forum.
Thank you for the conversation!