Love this! After 8 years working for international organisations, I quit and after two years I am now working with an organisation composed of 99% academics. I have found the egos, narrow mindedness and unwillingness to be a part of something bigger than their own individual worlds quite shocking. At first I was feeling so wowed to be a part of it, now I just feel like these geeks fell off the pedestals I had placed them on. I honestly feel like the world is a mess ‘cos the smart people we are looking up to for solutions are involved in a totally different game all together. We need solutions and they are looking at having one citation more than their nemesis. 😂this world is complex.
Thanks for making this honest, helpful video. I've been working in academia for almost two decades now but am seriously looking to exit and do something else. The only thing I like about it is being able to open the minds of young people.
I thought I’d miss that, but actually find I can make a stronger influence in the real world when not having to exist within the confines of academia! Good luck xx
New follower conquered. I really love the way you explain your ideas. I left my 20-year job last year; it was no longer sustainable. It was the best decision I could have taken. Thank you for sharing
Amazing video as always Cheryl. I’m in academia and feeling like quitting every day 😂 Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts and experience in this video. I enjoy watching all your videos. See you in next video hehe.Som
@cherylhurst I look forward to your videos too!!! Tbh, I tried applying for jobs in industries in my country, but they seem to think PhDs are overqualified, and the only place to be is academia - how sad. But you're way way better academic than me!! I spent my most of phd time doing Zumba 🤣🤣 Anyway, seeing your videos make me miss u so much!!!
I totally agree with you and remember you’re not your job ! Corporate world most of the time do not care about the academic researches and it’s outcome the way you think , they are only interested in parts of it only when it’s helping their motto and the end result which is profit. That could be the reason why it’s highly guarded. Honestly, the corporate world and various government agencies has taken enough advantages of the Psychological and sociological field, only to push their ideas and profit margins which makes me so sad! Narcissists are everywhere and you have to face them or they run you out just remember not to make friends at work and share your ideas and goals outside of work related topics. Co workers are not your friends only in rare occasions true friendship can happens. Please don’t stay in a place when they don’t match your personality or your values especially when it comes to teachings.
While I have a blend of attended schooling and obtained a Psyd at a non-name brand school, it’s hard to believe misunderstanding in academia of what it means to be published? I learned something new! Thanks for sharing.
oh my word this is the exact video I need I am in the same position I left academia 18 months ago too I would love to pick your brain more if possible! I have so many questions that have been pressing on my mind incredible useful and important video!
Ah I’m glad to hear it! I’m definitely going to make more videos about how I made the switch and what it’s been like because I know a few people have left and feel a bit lost
@@cherylhurst i look forward to seeing them! Even all the ones currently have been a great help so thank you. Do you have a point of contact e.g. an email address or insta page where I could perhaps share some more thoughts on the matter if that is ok?
I just finished my masters degree last month, and though I have applied for open positions in universities in roles that seem interesting to me, I am not set on academia at all like many peers are (academia is standard for my fields of study). Part of it, and something I have seen discussed in videos similar to yours, is the hard fact that academia is essentially a pyramid scheme that is legal for some reason. Adjuncts and grad students in particular do 95% of the work at a university all while making wages fit for living out of their car. Meanwhile, they must pour money into the universities for degrees and the simple possibility of maybe advancing to upper echelons. Sounds familiar, no? While this is happening, most of the actual money in universities is funneled to administrative bulk, presidents, deans, etc., and excessive spending on supplies that is tied up in contracts with private companies. This is not a sustainable model for education and eventually all the academics who haven’t drank the exploitative kool-aid will leave for something at least marginally better (though the non-academic sector is just as exploitative in somewhat different ways).
@@cherylhurst something else that is striking about academia (as well as nonprofit work) is how hypocritical it is in terms of the career process. I mean going past adjunct level and to tenure track (though all hires should be tenure track, which is part of the point haha). For example, universities and NGOs always make a big deal about diversity, equity, and political change. However, the hiring process and work itself is rather conservative. In order to even become a teacher of an entry level course, one will often need a PhD and in some cases be “established” in the field. Similarly, in many nonprofits you need extensive paid work experience, not just volunteer history. The establishment aspect is fairly classist because it means resumes or CVs that list blue-collar work histories (for example, working while studying as many must do) are automatically eliminated by filters. This is completely antithetical to the stated goals of an institution that is meant to create equity of opportunity. The only question that should really matter is, “is this person a good teacher?”/“does this person bring a valuable knowledge to the institution?” not “how famous/established/academically-accomplished is this person?” That’s not to say that minimum requirements aren’t important. Degrees exist for a reason. However, work histories should actually be ignored or only be evaluated in context. Shouldn’t people with “inadequate” histories be considered on principle simply because of their differing perspectives on the world? Is there no value in hiring a “blue-collar academic” into a faculty or NGO? That’s actually a rather important perspective to have.
How about having something in your name in academia vs industry? In academia you have your own public appearance through papers and conference talks, while in industry, in most cases, you are just behind the scenes.
Yup that can definitely be true, but you can also do talks etc and make a name in industry. Very few people outside of academia care about papers anyway, so either way your “name” is typically in a small circle.
I was not naive about toxic people and long hours when I started looking for industry jobs, but I did underestimate how I would be treated because of my degrees. After several years of working part-time and applying to jobs, I finally got an entry-level engineering job. Basically, people at work treat me like I am Albert Einstein, or I am just book-smart and have no real-world experience. I do not think any work is below me, I really like working with my hands, but that's all they will let me do. The projects they have me on are off the clock for training and learning experience. I recently came across an interview a Howard Stern interview did with comedian Jerry Seinfeld. Seinfeld basically said life is torture and to find the torture that you are comfortable with. So I have been thinking of going back to academia. My graduate school experience was so rough I would hate myself if I put my students through that. To be fair, quite a bit of was not the fault of my advising faculty. Our department was the target of some pretty corrupt politics. I think one of my co-chairs, who was actually the subject matter expert of my dissertation, had a stroke due to the stress of the whole ordeal.
I like that bit about Seinfeld, it’s definitely true. I’ve also experienced the “you have a PhD so know nothing about the world” thing… it’s odd, for sure! I’m so sorry your graduate experience was so awful. I feel very lucky that mine was overall really good - best of luck with whatever you do next!
I think technology is big reason academia and the workforce are the way they are. The more we innovate the more what we think is higher productivity becomes the norm. Plus, some technology decreases the learning curve or barrier of entry to some jobs, thus more competition. I think the biggest danger of Large Language Models (LLM) like ChatGPT and other AI tools is making the workplace more demanding and competitive.
After two Masters (Msc in behavioral ecology-bioacoustics in frogs and neuroethology -neuro motor control in electric fish) and a PhD (in neurobiology-multimodal integration during learning and memory in bees) I’m done with academia (I’m trying to find a secure job… kind of difficult more difficult after all a saturated job market) I want to apply my data analysis skills (statistics, R, python, SQL, excel, SPSS, tableau), knowledge (biology, neuroscience, experimental design) and communication skills (writing papers, grants, teaching) in a industry… and help in solving problems with immediate effects on people… any advice?
Wow sounds like a really interesting field! I totally get why you’d want out of academia after this job market. With your experience you could do roles like government or non profit research which you’d probably like more, but ultimately so much depends on your interests! There’s biotechnology, environmental consulting, pharmaceuticals… I recommend you find a few people from your research area who left academia and see where they are now and really dive into the career paths they took
I'm in academia and think about quitting every minute of it, but it is not that easy because there's a lot of sunk cost (which I know I have to fight it). I am exhausted with academia where a lot of tasks are 'charity' like. For example, I was supposed to work on a certain project for a few months, was required to do certain assessments and publish one paper; and toward the end of the project, I was asked to do another task and publish another paper, like, what?! But I am at the bottom of the food chain academia hierarchy I can't say no. This type of 'charity' work in academia is common 🥲
Yes I know what you mean. I had a really good team of a few people around me who looked out for me, I recommend you see if you can find some strong mentors or even just friends who can help you navigate that and be a listening ear! Hope it works out x
Thank you for pointing out money as the first factor. I have burden to support my parents and my spouse and kids. Also, the time spend should be translated well into your compensation.
I work in finance but in more of an HR/people role than actual finance. I have a friend who left academia and is a data scientist so I’m going to get him on soon 😊
Toxic people are everywhere, but in academia i) being toxic gets you promoted ii) in academia tenured staff don’t get fired for being toxic
This is probably true unfortunately, lots of job security is not always good!
Love this! After 8 years working for international organisations, I quit and after two years I am now working with an organisation composed of 99% academics. I have found the egos, narrow mindedness and unwillingness to be a part of something bigger than their own individual worlds quite shocking.
At first I was feeling so wowed to be a part of it, now I just feel like these geeks fell off the pedestals I had placed them on.
I honestly feel like the world is a mess ‘cos the smart people we are looking up to for solutions are involved in a totally different game all together. We need solutions and they are looking at having one citation more than their nemesis.
😂this world is complex.
🤣
Refreshing to see someone opening up about this - thanks for sharing!
Thanks Preet. With practice and time I’ll be able to edit like you can, maybe!
Thanks for making this honest, helpful video. I've been working in academia for almost two decades now but am seriously looking to exit and do something else. The only thing I like about it is being able to open the minds of young people.
I thought I’d miss that, but actually find I can make a stronger influence in the real world when not having to exist within the confines of academia! Good luck xx
Thank you for being transparent about your thoughts after moving on from academia!
I’m happy it resonated!
Always so proud of you and inspired by your willingness to talk about this stuff!
New follower conquered. I really love the way you explain your ideas. I left my 20-year job last year; it was no longer sustainable. It was the best decision I could have taken. Thank you for sharing
Thanks so much and I’m so happy for you! I hope others who commented can have the same outcome because we are definitely not alone.
Amazing video as always Cheryl. I’m in academia and feeling like quitting every day 😂 Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts and experience in this video. I enjoy watching all your videos. See you in next video hehe.Som
Som! I always look forward to your comments ☺️ I hope it starts to get better for you! You were always a better academic than me!
@cherylhurst I look forward to your videos too!!! Tbh, I tried applying for jobs in industries in my country, but they seem to think PhDs are overqualified, and the only place to be is academia - how sad. But you're way way better academic than me!! I spent my most of phd time doing Zumba 🤣🤣 Anyway, seeing your videos make me miss u so much!!!
I totally agree with you and remember you’re not your job ! Corporate world most of the time do not care about the academic researches and it’s outcome the way you think , they are only interested in parts of it only when it’s helping their motto and the end result which is profit. That could be the reason why it’s highly guarded. Honestly, the corporate world and various government agencies has taken enough advantages of the Psychological and sociological field, only to push their ideas and profit margins which makes me so sad! Narcissists are everywhere and you have to face them or they run you out just remember not to make friends at work and share your ideas and goals outside of work related topics. Co workers are not your friends only in rare occasions true friendship can happens. Please don’t stay in a place when they don’t match your personality or your values especially when it comes to teachings.
Thank you for the great content! Very insightful video!
Glad it was helpful!
While I have a blend of attended schooling and obtained a Psyd at a non-name brand school, it’s hard to believe misunderstanding in academia of what it means to be published?
I learned something new! Thanks for sharing.
It isn’t typically those in academia, it’s people who aren’t in academia who get confused or misunderstand 😊
@@cherylhurst I agree. There’s definitely a “gap” between those w degrees and those without. Thanks for sharing. Great content!!!
oh my word this is the exact video I need I am in the same position I left academia 18 months ago too I would love to pick your brain more if possible! I have so many questions that have been pressing on my mind
incredible useful and important video!
Ah I’m glad to hear it! I’m definitely going to make more videos about how I made the switch and what it’s been like because I know a few people have left and feel a bit lost
@@cherylhurst i look forward to seeing them! Even all the ones currently have been a great help so thank you. Do you have a point of contact e.g. an email address or insta page where I could perhaps share some more thoughts on the matter if that is ok?
I just finished my masters degree last month, and though I have applied for open positions in universities in roles that seem interesting to me, I am not set on academia at all like many peers are (academia is standard for my fields of study).
Part of it, and something I have seen discussed in videos similar to yours, is the hard fact that academia is essentially a pyramid scheme that is legal for some reason. Adjuncts and grad students in particular do 95% of the work at a university all while making wages fit for living out of their car. Meanwhile, they must pour money into the universities for degrees and the simple possibility of maybe advancing to upper echelons. Sounds familiar, no? While this is happening, most of the actual money in universities is funneled to administrative bulk, presidents, deans, etc., and excessive spending on supplies that is tied up in contracts with private companies.
This is not a sustainable model for education and eventually all the academics who haven’t drank the exploitative kool-aid will leave for something at least marginally better (though the non-academic sector is just as exploitative in somewhat different ways).
I definitely have on my list to make a video “is academia a pyramid scheme?” 😅 because it really feels like it! Good luck on your job search!
@@cherylhurst something else that is striking about academia (as well as nonprofit work) is how hypocritical it is in terms of the career process. I mean going past adjunct level and to tenure track (though all hires should be tenure track, which is part of the point haha). For example, universities and NGOs always make a big deal about diversity, equity, and political change. However, the hiring process and work itself is rather conservative. In order to even become a teacher of an entry level course, one will often need a PhD and in some cases be “established” in the field. Similarly, in many nonprofits you need extensive paid work experience, not just volunteer history. The establishment aspect is fairly classist because it means resumes or CVs that list blue-collar work histories (for example, working while studying as many must do) are automatically eliminated by filters. This is completely antithetical to the stated goals of an institution that is meant to create equity of opportunity. The only question that should really matter is, “is this person a good teacher?”/“does this person bring a valuable knowledge to the institution?” not “how famous/established/academically-accomplished is this person?”
That’s not to say that minimum requirements aren’t important. Degrees exist for a reason. However, work histories should actually be ignored or only be evaluated in context. Shouldn’t people with “inadequate” histories be considered on principle simply because of their differing perspectives on the world? Is there no value in hiring a “blue-collar academic” into a faculty or NGO? That’s actually a rather important perspective to have.
Just a quick message to let you know that these videos are being helpful to me. On my journey to leave academia.
Thanks for saying that and I’m so happy to hear it! I plan to make more soon, corporate life keeping me very busy 😅
How about having something in your name in academia vs industry? In academia you have your own public appearance through papers and conference talks, while in industry, in most cases, you are just behind the scenes.
Yup that can definitely be true, but you can also do talks etc and make a name in industry. Very few people outside of academia care about papers anyway, so either way your “name” is typically in a small circle.
I was not naive about toxic people and long hours when I started looking for industry jobs, but I did underestimate how I would be treated because of my degrees. After several years of working part-time and applying to jobs, I finally got an entry-level engineering job. Basically, people at work treat me like I am Albert Einstein, or I am just book-smart and have no real-world experience. I do not think any work is below me, I really like working with my hands, but that's all they will let me do. The projects they have me on are off the clock for training and learning experience.
I recently came across an interview a Howard Stern interview did with comedian Jerry Seinfeld. Seinfeld basically said life is torture and to find the torture that you are comfortable with. So I have been thinking of going back to academia. My graduate school experience was so rough I would hate myself if I put my students through that. To be fair, quite a bit of was not the fault of my advising faculty. Our department was the target of some pretty corrupt politics. I think one of my co-chairs, who was actually the subject matter expert of my dissertation, had a stroke due to the stress of the whole ordeal.
I like that bit about Seinfeld, it’s definitely true. I’ve also experienced the “you have a PhD so know nothing about the world” thing… it’s odd, for sure! I’m so sorry your graduate experience was so awful. I feel very lucky that mine was overall really good - best of luck with whatever you do next!
I think technology is big reason academia and the workforce are the way they are. The more we innovate the more what we think is higher productivity becomes the norm. Plus, some technology decreases the learning curve or barrier of entry to some jobs, thus more competition.
I think the biggest danger of Large Language Models (LLM) like ChatGPT and other AI tools is making the workplace more demanding and competitive.
After two Masters (Msc in behavioral ecology-bioacoustics in frogs and neuroethology -neuro motor control in electric fish) and a PhD (in neurobiology-multimodal integration during learning and memory in bees) I’m done with academia (I’m trying to find a secure job… kind of difficult more difficult after all a saturated job market) I want to apply my data analysis skills (statistics, R, python, SQL, excel, SPSS, tableau), knowledge (biology, neuroscience, experimental design) and communication skills (writing papers, grants, teaching) in a industry… and help in solving problems with immediate effects on people… any advice?
Wow sounds like a really interesting field! I totally get why you’d want out of academia after this job market. With your experience you could do roles like government or non profit research which you’d probably like more, but ultimately so much depends on your interests! There’s biotechnology, environmental consulting, pharmaceuticals… I recommend you find a few people from your research area who left academia and see where they are now and really dive into the career paths they took
I'm in academia and think about quitting every minute of it, but it is not that easy because there's a lot of sunk cost (which I know I have to fight it). I am exhausted with academia where a lot of tasks are 'charity' like. For example, I was supposed to work on a certain project for a few months, was required to do certain assessments and publish one paper; and toward the end of the project, I was asked to do another task and publish another paper, like, what?! But I am at the bottom of the food chain academia hierarchy I can't say no. This type of 'charity' work in academia is common 🥲
Yes I know what you mean. I had a really good team of a few people around me who looked out for me, I recommend you see if you can find some strong mentors or even just friends who can help you navigate that and be a listening ear! Hope it works out x
Thank you for pointing out money as the first factor. I have burden to support my parents and my spouse and kids. Also, the time spend should be translated well into your compensation.
Agreed… I think people shy away from saying it’s about money but I wanted to be comfortable and now I am (and spend more time with my family!)
You are super smart, but I would also love to « down to earth » things like gardening. Good luck for the rest!
I’m desperately trying to keep my plants alive.. but you’re right, gardening would be a great idea 😅
One problem with academia is tenure.
Yesss 100%. I didn’t get to that point 😂
Good video Cheryl.
Thank you!
Very interesting video. You are right.
Glad you liked it!
Academia is an _industry._ That is why it has lost respect, that is why it has become a toxic work environment.
Yes definitely an industry!
Some will only leave academia feet first and dead.
True!
Its been almost a year wow! Would love an update.
I should! I will…..
A lot of truths shared here.
Happy some of it connected!
What industry did you go into?
I work in finance but in more of an HR/people role than actual finance. I have a friend who left academia and is a data scientist so I’m going to get him on soon 😊
Would love to know what your industry day to day tasks are compared to academia!
Ummm.... "when I left academia" is really vague.
Nice observation re: "publish"
Omg thanks so much for the helpful feedback!!!!!
Suspiciously never tell you what she studied 🤣🤣🤣
I said a few times I wasn’t in natural science, I’ll have another video soon on critical thinking you might enjoy
You are smart and brave. T.
That’s very kind, thanks!