20:34 Wasn't there a comic where Lex made an ai to figure out Superman's secret identity and it zeroed in on Clark Kent but Lex rejected it saying no God-like figure would deign to be a geeky mid level reporter.
I'm just picturing the bit in the Simpsons with Chief Wiggum and the 555 number. Lex: "Beautiful, computer, did you figure out Superman's secret identity?" Computer: "Sure did Lex" Lex: "Clerk Kent... Aw geez, that's gotta be phony."
I know it's a joke, but the idea of Bruce Wayne adopting an orphan who lost her parents to the Zod fight, training her to be Robin? Can you imagine the stories that could come from a Robin who's anti-kryptonian? A Robin who acts as a constant reminder to Batman and Superman about the dangers of superpowered beings who don't think about the collateral damage? I mean, Snyder loves misunderstanding the Dark Knight Returns, so why not a Carrie Kelley?
Though likely unintentional on Snyder's part, it'd also be an interesting twist on a Robin given that Dick Grayson, in most continuities, greatly admires Superman and usually gets the Nightwing name from him.
@@DepressedFishey123 It is actuallt even a good reason to have a child be trained almost as a soldier and would even fit zack snyder's tone for his movies
Zack Snyder: "You're living in a dream world!". Superman: "Good! Dreams save us. Dreams lift us up and transform us into something better. And, on my soul, I swear that until my dream of a world where dignity, honor, and justice are the reality we all share, I'll never stop fighting! Ever!".
Superframe actually used that quote from Supes to respond to Snyder refusing to understand Superman. Not sure if that's where you got this, but yeah. Hopefully Corenswet gets the opportunity to give us that hopeful optimistic Superman we deserve.
@@gennybaratta2460 and its really one of the few times where batman truly feels like batman in the entire movie and he's not even in the bat costume yet
Love the moment in CW's COIE when Cryer Lex meets Smallville Clark Kent. First, even after hopping across the multiverse, even with a Clark Kent who was Superman right in front of his face, Lex still denies that his Superman could ever have a human identity. Second, I love that Lex is dumbfounded that Clark would give up his superpowers. Cryer really sells Lex's disbelief and rage that someone with the powers of a god could just walk away from it with zero regret.
It wasn't that he denied the possibility of his Superman having a human identity, it was the idea of his Clark Kent secretly being Superman that he found impossible.
the icing on that cake is when Smallville Clark flat out says to Cryer "you're no Lex Luthor" like DAMN even without heat vision Clark can still leave that bad of a burn on someone.
Just to note, "The First Avenger" was added in order to give foreign markets an option for a secondary title in case that market thought "Captain America" would be too problematic.
@@daelen.cclark Cause the golden age doesnt just refer to comics and isnt specific to Marvel? Where as The First Avenger is, I guess. *shrug* I dont know, I'm just guessing here
The best way to fix the whole "Jimmy Olson" debacle: retcon it so that the CIA guy was a completely different person who was using "Jimmy Olson" as a cover alias. Then you can introduce the real version somewhere down the line.
I'd honestly be tempted to have him be an important character as well as Clark's down to earth pal JUST to annoy the guy who thought HIS use of the name was "fun."
When they said that his codename was Agent Talon, I thought about the Court of Owls. It would be nice if they actually used it by stating that he really was a member of the Court of Owls, and he took the name of Jimmy Olsen because, in that universe, he's a very renowned photographer
@@notmyrealname453 She could just develop into a more accurate version. When i watched Birds of Prey, I thought "hey, I really want to see how THIS Cassandra Cain becomes the character we know and love"
@@NIDELLANEUM hmmm, I don't know court of owls beyond them being a secret society of the rich based out of Gotham. Do you think they could anchor a movie as main villains?
Honestly this Lex feels more like TOYMAN! I mean his looks, red long hair His personality, he's a manchild and treats Superman, Batman and Doomsday like toys In fact it wouldve been better if he was Toyman because the characterization would be accurate and theyre brining in an obscure Superman foe as the main villain
The guy in the wheelchair could have also been turned into METALLO! Metallo would have been more fitting for the movie's final boss, instead of bringing in Doomsday too early (and in such a dumb way).
The thing is, he would have been an excellent Riddler. I could see Nigma as this nervously awkward, manic super genius pulling the strings behind a massive conspiracy to get Batman and Superman to both go completely insane and kill each other. He would have worked perfectly as the character in a Christopher Nolan Dark Knight movie. But as Lex Luthor, everything is all wrong. When I think Lex Luthor, I think of a more restrained, conniving presence who gives off an abandon all hope air, even when he's being jovial. A calm and collected figure, who's constantly waiting to see things go terribly and already thinking of how to profit or benefit from it in some way, especially if it makes Supes look bad or gets in his head. This one just has an air of probably has dozens of restraining orders out against him. Yeah, he is like The Joker. Unfortunately, it's the Jared Leto one. I'm SOOOO glad they didn't have any scenes together.
"I want them to bring back lemon Jolly Ranchers as part of the main line, and not as a separate, harder to find candy." THANK YOU! FINALLY SOMEONE GETS IT!
I love how Synder tried to 'modernise' Lex Luthor from being a 'rich, bald industrialist'...has anyone ever showed Zack a picture of Jeff Bezos?! Hell, just cast someone to be a pastiche of Bezos and he'd work as Lex Luthor.
No billionaire in our world would fit Lex. Lex is evil, but does good things as long as they benefit him, and he has shown ethical behavior from time to time, like in the DCAU. Bezos, Musk, Kotick, et al are straight up boring supervillains, at worst Ted Faro from Horizon.
The best way to describe BvS is the shot(no pun intended) of the gun shooting Martha in the opening, and how apparently Snyder never thought once "Huh. Maybe using Tom Holkenborg's DJ name 'Junkie XL' in the credit over this dramatic moment could distract and detract from this scene". Snyder is just so preoccupied with showing his vision, he almost never stopped to think out anything around the film BUT the visuals.
"It's entirely possible they just assumed they'd be fired for leaving the office even if the building was destroyed and half the staff killed." You know, 6 months down the line, the whole thing with the Kentucky Hurricane and the candle factory/amazon just makes the statement depressingly accurate.
I think Captain America The First Avenger works in the sense that Cap’s the first real hero in the MCU. The first hero from the past whose legacy stretches to the modern day, an inspiration for millions of people to keep fighting despite the odds.
11:36 "How do you feel about the name Robin?" Actually, Batman adopting that little girl as the next Robin would have been a great addition to the story. Imagine if SHE had confronted Superman.
@@erickamakeeaina1649 Yes, at least that'd put Bruce in constant contact with someone who'd actually suffered from the Kryptonian beatdown from MoS, and give him personal reasons to be suspicious and distrustful of Superman.
"How do you like the name Robin?" Actually, that might've been an interesting thing to do for the film. Have the girl Bruce saves at the beginning be Carrie Kelly and have her be the DCEU's take on Robin. That would help give Bruce some personal investment in his conflict with Superman and maybe have her act as his moral center who stops Bruce from going too far.
I'll be honest I don't like Carrie kelley, how about Stephenie brown or Cassadra cain either are in my humble opinion much better Robin than Carrie who is just there.
@@kazinadbiralamadit6905 honestly, Cassandra would be too good for a movie like this. she has too much introduction and development that she NEEDS to go through before she can be part of just a regular movie. Maybe a tv show could've pulled it off, but no way in hell could this film.
@@grumpysphinx4911 That's because it is. It's a reference to a film called "The Incredibly Strange Creatures Who Stopped Living and Became Mixed-Up Zombies." Mystery Science Theatre 3000 did a riff on it. It's weird to say the least.
13:21-13:37 Not to mention simple forensics tests could easily determine those guys were burned by a flamethrower based on the pattern of burning and chemical residue.
What's funnier about your talk of how Lex would balk at Superman having a secret identity, is that one time, he actually found out Superman's identity thanks to a hired profiler. And fired her. Because she found out Clark was Superman, but Lex was so deadset in the idea that Superman would not lower himself to such a low human being like Kent. He had his nemesis' secret identity in his hands, and his own ego would not allow him to believe such.
My favorite reason for why Lex hates Superman is that he’s projecting on him *hard.* Because he’d abuse such power, he assumes Superman is too, he’s just sly about it.
This version of Lex felt more like Arcade from Marvel than anything else. I feel a new Batman film that establishes how he fits into the world before the crossover would have helped. Maybe one that implies he's only fought mob-boss-with-gimic villains before now, but a step forward in tech thanks to kryptonian wreckage has led to the creation of his powered enemies, leading to him blaming kryptonians for the worsening situation in Gotham.
I'm not overly fond of this Luthor either...as Luthor. As Toyman, he would've been AMAZING. Nobody does Toyman anymore. S:TAS and Justice League the animated series used him quite a bit, but he's the *perfect* villain for this sort of thing.
Yeah but this is Classic Luthor A petty egotistical narcissist with delusions of Grandeur and Daddy issues. STAS toned down a lot of Lex's negative qualities so they could have them flair up at times for shock value. But Then I grew up with this guy th-cam.com/video/icBG4FchaQ0/w-d-xo.html
Yeah, kind of would be interesting to have the Toyman in a modern film. Maybe give him a bit of a Jigsaw vibe (assuming they didn't already do that with the Riddler in The Batman), and kind of have him develop all sorts of tricks and traps for his enemies. Possibly even have him "play a game" with Superman, involving him kind of testing his powers and overall good nature, to see if he can basically save certain people on time, kind of like when Kessler did a bit of a moral test for Cole in the 1st infamous game.
Heck. They even did an episode of Static Shock with Toyman as the villain where he made big toys that had Kryptonite mixed into their plastic for crying out loud.
I thought it was related to the sci-fi series V. Which makes me wonder which of them are the lizard aliens. My money is on Batman. Mostly because his mind is on another planet.
“Dawn of Justice” is right up there with “The Faces of Evil” in the realm of subtitles they thought sounded deep and poetic and meaningful but were actually just stupid.
5 minute segment in the movie: "I am a man!" "No, I am a man!" "No, I am a man!" "No, I am a man!" "No, I am a man!" "No, I am a man!" "No, I am a man!" "No, I am a man!" "No, I am a man!" ...
Everytime I hear the "Do you bleed" line I just think of Rich Evans talking about what Ant-Man would have been like if Zack Snyder directed it. "Ant-Man, do you bleed tiny blood?" "You WIIIIIIILLLLLLLLLLLL"
The problem with Zack is that he seems to focus on the style more than the substance and then decides to go overboard with the darkness in both a literal and figurative sense which is why we have Superman breaking a guys neck, and Pa Kent doing his whole "the world isn't ready for heroes" shtick and telling Clark not to use his abilities to save lives (right before he told the Firemen and beach Lifeguards to just turn a blind eye and watch some TV instead).
Zack Snyder is a capable cinematographer, but if you hand him one decision surrounding that cinematography, then his abilities will be wasted, guaranteed. Also he’s an Objectivist, and it is extremely rare for Objectivists to make anything good.
What happened to Zack Snyder during the development was Justice League and how WB handled his movie was awful and something I wouldn't wish on any filmmaker. That being said, people should understand that it doesn't mean his current and previous work is now suddenly immune from criticism.
@@DinoDave150 😂😂😂😂😂well said mate.. These idiots were even praising Army of the Dead just cause Synder directed it. He ruined DC but only these idiots never realized that
@@tanime_man6535 I'll still maintain that Zack Snyder's Justice League is actually pretty good, but it still does have its Snyder-isms and the only reason characters like Batman or Superman were better in that film than in BvS was that the plot didn't allow for pontificating on Superman's godlike status or give Batman a chance to shoot anyone.
When I heard that Jesse Eisenberg was casted,I figured that they would use the character in The Social Network but have him be unambiguously evil. I have no idea what this performance was about.
I actually agree. That's basically what I thought, and while I'm not sure it would have been the best take on Lex, it would have been better than the shit we got.
@@3DSDF Nigma is a manic nut obsessed with leaving clues. Which is exactly what Lex does for the entire film. As films I enjoyed the Snyderverse but for a guy that “loves” the Dark Knight he really screwed up the character. Really watch Zach Snyder’s justice league. Batman literally has Wonder Woman pointedly explain what his nightmare message from the Flash means. He just says no, I think it’s something darker. By that point what he witnessed with his own eyes should have told him that she was right. Yet, he denies it. Which leads directly to the Nightmare future. This film , Batman v Superman, is really where the movies start to make the Worlds greatest detective a complete idiot.
"Batman Values Superman." Actually, the V always made laugh because that's how court cases are recorded, so it's like the climax of the film should be the two suing each other in court.
I wonder if Snyder's adoration of Atlas Shrugged is the reason Luthor isn't a traditional billionaire CEO in this, but a wacky, "modern" one, while Bruce - the hero - is very much the type.
Linkara when reviewing Batman v Superman: "Truth be told, I kinda wish I was reviewing Man of Steel instead." Linkara when reviewing Man of Steel: "THAT WAS NOT AN INVITATION!"
Another problem with the “god” dialogue is that is inconsistent First Lex says “Devils come from the sky” obviously referring to Superman. But then later “If the man can´t kill god, the devil will do it” So what is Superman? A god or a devil? Lex Luthor entire motivation is explained in metaphors but the metaphors are not consistent And he´s making a clear distinction between gods and devils so you can´t even argue that he´s saying they are one in the same or something in those lines
Yeah, and I really hate the constant comparisons between superheroes and gods. Not only is it melodramatic and pretentious but its inaccurate. Superheroes aren't the gods from classic myths, they're the heroes. They're the new King Arthurs, Hercules, Odysseus and Atlantas'.
@@edstevenskw5542 that's hardly unique though, the Greek deities interacted with mortals all the time. Zeus sure liked interacting with the mortal ladies. The gods generally don't have the humanity of the mortal (or semi mortal) heroes and don't really go though the same character growth or usually have the same struggles even when they are the central characters to a story. They pretty much are just the same as they don't have to change.
@@edstevenskw5542 Exactly. The gods and goddesses of Norse myths are more like humans than most other gods. Thor's adventures are more like those of Hercules or Odyesseus. And the Justice League aren't like the Olympian Pantheon, they're the Knights of the Round Table. The only time the heroes of the DC universe being compared to gods actually worked was in Kingdom Come, and that was more due to the circumstances and the fact the heroes like Superman and Wonder Woman had become so removed from regular society by cutting themselves off from the rest of the world. And the story was how they learned to reconnect with people.
It’s say something when Alan Moore is more about the parallels between superheroes and gods and monsters. Incidentally please keep sunder away from miracle man.
In an alternate universe, Batman/Superman: Dawn of Justice has just released in theaters. We pan in on an audience staring raptly at the screen where Clark and Bruce argue. A child speaks, “Mom, why aren’t they kissing yet?” His mother responds, “Timmy, a romance needs to be built up. Be patient.” End scene.
Lex Luthor being a CEO is the best idea ever to the character. It makes him the greatest villain - good PR, human supremacist and corrupt. We need Lex Luthor as THE proper antagonist he needs to be, because he is the wildcapitalist who would ruin everything, even the world economy, for selfish goals.
I think a combination of mad scientist and CEO is the best approach. Luthor should be dangerous with or without money, and I like the idea that if Superman exposes Luthor for who he is and finally gets him in prison, Luthor will simply no longer hold back and invent stuff like his power suit to directly fight Superman.
@@Oturan20 Precisely. That's why DCAU Luthor is one of the best, if not the best, Lex Luthors in media. I do love how they started him off as a successful corrupt businessman who ends up adopting the life of a rogue mad scientist once he gets exposed as a criminal by the Justice League.
@@evanbao93 Bolstered by Clancy Brown's perfect voice for the character. There's a reason why he's been voicing the character so many times (both in the DCAU and outside of it).
@@SiRenfield At least Universal can say they’re *smarter* then WB because they at least pulled the plug and said “nope! We need to step back and reconsider this idea!” That got us the 2020 Invisible Man, which is good
@@NoahDaArk Fair enough. Granted I’m in the category of “the DCEU got BETTER” (loved Birds of Prey and James Gunn’s Suicide Squad) that’s not to say that they’re perfect ,but at least it’s a sign that they’re learning from their mistakes even if not necessarily enough to redeem it entirely. And I understand Lewis being ST BEST hesitant to watch the ones after it because even the ones I mentioned can be somewhat tied back to Man of Steel thanks to both being sequels to Suicide Squad 2016 even if even they’re trying to distance themselves from that movie by making it as accessible for people who haven’t or refuse to see that one LOL
Zack Snyder to me feels like a *Hollywood version of Rob liefeld* where you can tell he has a *intense enthusiasm* for what he's doing but at the same time there is a underbelly of *disdain and embarrassment* for what he's in charge of, *his Batman is Crazy Steve* and his *Superman is Dr. Manhattan* After finding your channel last summer I've grown an appreciation respect and love for the characters and when I watch Zack Snyder ruin these characters in only makes me hate him as a director, and I asked this question what's so wrong with truth, justice and the American way?
I pretty much agree. Snyder is someone who wants to write dark stories but fails to understand that he is working with a fundamentally optimistic genre. Superhero stories are always going to have an undercurrent of hope in them and silliness that makes all attempts to make them dark just come off edgy.
@@paulbutkovich6103 he's a guy who has a "vision" without eyes or any awareness, when I see that people want him to come back I actually am disappointed with the audience because they are saying that they like Zack or embarrassed and hate the genre that they love at the end of the day this is for kids and if you have to tell your young son he can't go see a Superman movie because he kills a guy among countless others is under bullshit. He had his chance it's time to give it to somebody who actually loves the material, Superman and Lois is excellent in the only good Superman media out now that gets and loves The Source material
Given how he claimed to have been inspired by Watchmen, I feel it's more accurate to say his Batman is Rorschach. He said in an interview how Watchmen influenced his ideas about writing superheroes, missing that the characters killing people in Watchmen was supposed to be a sign they weren't heroes. Rorschach wasn't the badass who finds the truth like he thought he was. He was a failure who couldn't get anywhere trying to uncover Ozymandias' plot and got his ass kicked when he faced Ozymandias. The comic basically said edgy murderers will get their asses kicked if they face traditional superheroes or supervillains.
@@voiceofreason467 th-cam.com/video/6uY4adDqerQ/w-d-xo.html You can look at Snyder's own words here. He responded to people having an issue with his Batman killing people by INSULTING them. He outright states if you have an idea that your heroes don't do terrible things that "you're living in a fucking dreamworld." Seriously go watch that. Snyder makes it clear he just loves violence for its own sake. The Watchmen movie goes out of its way to make the acts of violence in his movie much more flashy and impressive. This is done because Snyder enjoys the violence. He talks about what Watchmen said about superheroes, saying they were "broken." He missed that the comic wasn't saying superheroes would be like this, it was saying they COULD and that they SHOULDN'T be.
Ok so the Son of Sun thing is really funny to me. Because theres a Kamen Rider, Black RX, who gets his powers from the sun. And he calls himself "Taiyo no Musko" Literally Son of the Sun. Though fans normally like to use Child of the Sun for a simple reason. THE DIRECT TRANSLATION IS CLUNCKY AS HELL
So... Jimmy Olsen is introduced in this movie, and five seconds later he's dead? Kinda hard for me to decide which modern version got his character wrong the most: BvS, or Supergirl.
Killing off characters can be fun if you're a sadistic writer, but you have to make sure there's a narrative purpose for it or dark humor to be had from it. If you're just doing it for shock value, you're lazy and possibly a sociopath.
The CIA Agent Reveal and Shooting Jimmy Olsen, as a "gag", are just two ideas essentially at odds. If you're going to dark comically kill Jimmy Olsen with gunfire, he has to be an actual photographer, and that bullet has to hit him through the camera.
what about when in deadpool 2, brad pitt agreed to make his cameo apperance as an invisible character whose main purpose is to die just for the minimum wage and a cup of coffee
@@ianr.navahuber2195 there was a narrative purpose there, namely to mock cheap cameos and all the other lame Rob Liefeld creations who were not Deadpool and Cable.
As much as I like Batman v Superman and the Snyder cut, I disagree with his vision for the DCEU as a whole and I’m glad it’s going in a different direction.
I personally would’ve gone with a subtitle like “World’s finest”, or “Trinity formation”, or “Knights of tomorrow”, or “Brave and the Bold”, or even a different nonsense name like “Knightly returning”. (With tons of rewrites, of course.)
This movie doesn't deserve the title of "World's Finest". Since the heroes here ain't at their finest! Though I agree could've used the "Trinity" title
Hell I would’ve just dropped the Batman v Superman part of the title and keep Dawn of Justice as the title. Yes it’s basically still obviously showing how this is a painfully obvious catch-up movie but at least it’s more succinct.
I liked how Bruce was perched in a corner in the beginning of the film, all out of focus like a horror movie monster. Batman being presented like a dark creature to everyone except his friends and allies is something I always enjoy. That’s a positive that’s stuck with me.
If they wanted a Lex Luthor that was maniacal, Machiavellian and a bit manic, they should have really cast Nicolas Cage given how he can pull off stuff like that and gets the character because he's a massive comic nerd (plus it would be a good way for him to make up not getting the chance to play Supes in the cancelled 'Superman Lives' movie). Also, Snyder thought he was making TDKR, but he ended up being one "I'm the Goddamn Batman" away from making the cinematic equivalent of ASBAR.
8:17 No pushback regarding the ending; a criticism I've always had about Man of Steel was the ending. I LOVE movies that take their time with their respective endings so we can process the entire movie around the time it ends. However, after Superman's breakdown over killing Zod, we don't really get to see Clark process that he's the last son of Krypton. We only get about 2 - 3 minutes of an ending, so there's no time to process Clark's journey in the entire film.
yeah. at least something. like he talking to his dad's grave about wondering if this is right or wrong. and he saying something like "i might be the member of another planet, but honestly, i just see myself as another human"
@@ianr.navahuber2195 One scene I also wish Man of Steel included was a scene similar to the first Raimi Spider-Man film where Peter, after his high school graduation, missed Uncle Ben and said "I can't help thinking about the last thing he said to me. He tried to tell me something important and I threw it in his face." Hell Zack Snyder openly admitted in March 2019 during an event about him that Sam Raimi's Spider-Man is his favorite Spider-Man!
@@EricGraham94 yeah. sure it might make jonatahn's actions of letting himself die look weirder but it could be an interesting dilemma that clark actually feels conflicted of obeying jonathan's order of letting him die. thinking "I should have ignored him and rescue him. Why I didn't?". Heck, Maybe even discuss it with AI Jor-El about "was my dad in the right by letting himself die just so i wouldn't expose myself?". I am prety sure AI Jor-El would have something to say Maybe even have clark apologizing to his dad's grave about how he is gonna show himself to the world and try to help and be a better man (show a montage of superman helping people either with stuff as mudnane as rescuing a cat out of a tree, OR helping recosntruct metropolis after zod's invasion) but in his own way (have clark say "showing one side of me to the people, but keeping a side for myself. one that can just be just like everyone else", showing him arrive to the Daily Planet). And saying something like "I might stumble, I might fall, but maybe tomorrow, i might help others accomplish wonders." (which would be a kinda obvious, in the nose but good way to have clark not see himself as a god or an alien, but just as a human being) while he is going to the daily planet (maybe even have him literally stumbling a little) and then after lois' "welcome to the planet" dialogue, haveclark over black screen saying in voice over "I hope you can be proud of your son when that happens". AND JUST THEN cut to the "Man of Steel" titles It would have been a contrast to raimi's spider man where peter caused the death of his uncle by inaction and because he didn't listen to him. and it would make man of steel's ending better. replace that part of superman destroying the satellite, have the montage of superman helping people and it would improve man of steel way more. it would be a good contrast to the overwhelming sense of bigger dangers out there with something hopeful at the end. it can even be a way to have this clark not be a true superman, but still be learning. and i say that as someone who likes man of steel. it is good as it is, but the ending after superman kills Zod could be WAY more better.
Again, there's something certainly off when Jon Cryer and The CW do Lex Luthor's megalomania better than Hollywood. I mean he's REALLY good as Lex on Supergirl.
It's because Jon Cryer is a HUGE comic book nerd, owns and read everything. He wants to do Lex justice. That is what we need in comics movies and shows, the actors to give a shit.
I worked at a theater and we held a late-night employee screening when the theatrical version came out. We ended up standing around for an hour after the movie was over, picking apart the entire thing together because there was SO MUCH to criticize about it.
"I will never approve of a Patreon review of the Snyder Cut of Justice League." ... Alright, Linkara, how much do you mean by "never"? [Reaches for wallet.]
It was Lex in the movie. i know they changed it later, but I remember the original ads and marketing material called him Lex. That's backtracking of the highest magnitude.
Funny you should mention that, because in the Noah Da Ark Cut of Batman & Superman (because V is stupid), I actually draw heavily from the DC Animated Universe. For example: -the terrorist incident at the start of the film would be similar to the scene in Worlds Finest where Superman stops the plane high jacking. -Lex Luthor would straight up be the DCAU version of Lex who simply passes himself off as a quirky young CEO to hide his true self from the public (and he has a much better plan to boot only wanting to create a mind control device to use on Superman). -After having a Heroic Blue Screen of Death and realizing how evil he had started to become, Batman would have ditched the Dark Knight outfit in favor of one more akin to the New Batman Adventures look. And those are just a few of the ideas I’ve had!
Top 5 Things "V" means in Batman V Superman: 5) Batman Votes Superman: The Kryptonian Candidate 4) Batman Vows Superman: An Epic Proposal 3) Batman Vacationing Superman: Weekend At Lexie's 2) Batman Validates Superman: Parking In Rear 1) Batman Violates Superman: Dawn Of Groping Come up with your own in the comments.
Snyder also said his Batman could get “raped in prison” …so ya know…maybe not the best guy for this material. The scripts he chooses are also not nearly as smart as he thinks.
Agreed. I really don't get why people want to see Snyder's "vision" for the DC universe. When its just more of his nihilistic and depressing angst fests.
@@seventhbracken4466 during an interview for watchmen he said this : “Everyone says that about "Batman Begins." "Batman's dark." I'm like, "Okay, no, Batman's cool." He gets to go to a Tibetan monastery and be trained by ninjas. Okay? I want to do that. But he doesn't, like, get raped in prison. That could happen in my movie. If you want to talk about dark, that's how that would go.”
@@stefanfilipovits21 Thanks for the clarification. That said I was kinda hoping for a link. Now, if it's from an article which has been deleted or you otherwise can't provide the original source, then that's understandable. But if you can it would be of great help to me.
@@seventhbracken4466 hey, I get it. You hear that in passing or in a comment section and of course you’d go “uhhhhhhh what?” and need some clarification. It’s a pretty weird thing to say lol.
@@thatonea-hole HOLD IT! You imagined an Ace Attorney type game with these characters, (Slams hands on desk) *but did you consider who the prosecutor would be?*
Minor spoilers for the My Hero Academia manga but a recent chapter in that had its own version of the "False God" vandalism scene, with a statue of All Might having a sign hung from its neck reading "I am not here". That line makes it sound so much goofier and yet it actually works better for MHA than it did in BvS.
The scariest part is that while Superman and Batman’s characterization in these films (The first two at least) can raise a lot of eyebrows, this isn’t even as far as they’ve gone in the past. Evil Superman seems yo be the go-to for most elseworlds (and Injustice, I’m surprised you never brought that game’s questionable plot lines up) and then there’s Crazy Steve, who you have brought up…and he’s so bad that he has his own page on the Villains Wiki…which actually says that DCEU Batman is actually a step up…Yeah…
I’m just saying if BvS Batman had taken in Carrie Kelly (aka the little girl from the prologue) at least he wouldn’t make her eat rats or make sexually suggestive comments about her unlike Crazy Steve
I dunno if anyone remembers, but the DCAU gave us basically Batman V Superman done right - World's Finest.... in fact, that could've been a better title - DC World's Finest!
Batman: Do you bleed? You will! Superman: (flies back) What was that? Batman: Nothing! Nothing!! (Superman flies up and falls back down and wreaks the batmobile even more, and flies up) Batman: OH REAL MATURE!!!
I love how any time a TH-camr has anything critical to say about any of these movies, they feel a need to frontload a 'CALM DOWN, I'm not saying YOU can't love it' disclaimer because it's so widely acknowledged that the more rabid element of the DCEU's fanbase is both highly reactionary and unable to grasp concepts until they are made glaringly obvious. Which kind of explains why they love these movies so much in the first place.
I never understood why Luthor’s main henchmen in this is KGBeast, even though he uses a flamethrower and is based in Gotham City. He should’ve been Firefly!!
This Batman is insane enough that I can buy that he just killed all of his rogues gallery. I actually consider the Joker being alive in this universe a plot hole.
Wait waht!? He was!? Why was it any specific Batman villain? Then again, it's like how he "had fun" with Jimmy. Answered my own question there I guess.
@@williamcronshaw5262 well calender man did make a cameo in the suicide squad movie and black mask was in bird of prey although he died but wasn't killed by batman
I thought that using "v" as an abbreviation for "versus" was pretty normal. But some quick googling tells me that (at least in America) it's really only used in legal cases. So this movie really should have been about Batman suing Superman for...I don't know, trespassing into Gotham or something. Actually "Dawn of Justice" would probably make more sense as a title for a courtroom drama too.
In regards to that comment Snyder said about not having room for Jimmy. I say, then don’t include Jimmy at all! Make that agent a nameless redshirt given his only purpose is to die
Funny how 2016 had both DC and Marvel doing vs. movies for their cinematic universes. No surprise Marvel's was better and had it make sense why the heroes were at odds.
I think a big reason for that is that Marvel took the time to build up their characters in their solo movies before bringing them all together for the big crossovers. DC, in an effort to not get left behind, rushed to the big crossover without fully developing all of its characters individually. Also: Hello there, General Kenobi.
@@thegreatstoneddragon9432 Hello there! Yes, that is very much the reason. Also, the whole Captain America vs. Iron Man is treated as much more a tragedy than just two heroes punching each other. You have two former friends fighting, one driven by revenge the other to protect someone close to him. Civil War is the end of the Avengers. What really results from Superman and Batman's fight?
I've made a big analysis of the Snyder Cut of Justice League and the work of Snyder overall and... I argue in it that Snyder dosen't understand the theme and iconographie. Sure, he put Theme and iconographie... but just because he thinks it's cool, not because he want to comment about the place of gods and super heroes in our culture or anything. Even in Watchmen, he treat it supperficially, sometime saying the exact opposite of what Alan Moore was saying originally. The best example being the black suit superman in this movie which... is a last minute décision to reference Death and return of Superman without understanding why this suit was originally black, because Superman colors was taken by imposters like Cyborg Superman and he have to get it back by prooving he is the real Superman... which never happen in the movie, everyone already think he is the real Superman and no one tries to replace him or anything. Plus, all the political theme are gone in Justice League, so all this stuff was probably from David S Goyer rather than Snyder.
@@dragonstormx I mean I understand why he wore cuz I read the comics *it's supposed to absorb solar radiation really fast and easy and store it so whenever he wears it he's always really powerful* but it's not explained well
@@K1ng1995 yeah. i wish it was said. maybe also said the original blue costume was still damaged, giving extra reason to say why he picked the black costume. just small explanations are enough
@@K1ng1995 They would’ve explained it in the film, but WB didn’t want Superman to wear the black suit. So Snyder had it darkened a bit so that if they ever gave him the okay, he could go back and change the coloring to make it look black.
I think Snyder considered the secondary mortal supporting cast irrelevant. His blabbering about gods via Luthor the loon and use of "pantheon" suggests a disinterest in the hero's normal lives and friends not directly tied to the heroic personas he's trying to deify.
I hate this movie but the only thing I disagree with is that “Son of Sun vs Knight of Night” sounds worse than “Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice” to me “Son of Sun vs Knight of Night” sounds just goofy enough for me to love
I don't hate it, but if we'd end up with same movie, that'd probably be the tipping point cause wasted potential that such title doesn't seem to match up
You know, I think you summed up Zack Snyder as a director in the first 5 minutes:- "Pretentious at best, moronic at worst." He's a competent visual director, able to craft a shot and composition for a visual spectacle. Only he's a poor storyteller. So obsessed with doing something "new" he doesn't realise the reason these things weren't done before wasn't a lack of vision, but the fact that it was never going to work in the first place. Except his ego has blinded him to this fact. Effectively he's William Shatner on the set of Star Trek V. Only somehow worse. How Snyder's career survived Sucker Punch I have no earthly idea
Won’t lie, I did get a laugh out of “Together, we can be justice” line. Since it was brought up, did anyone else notice that a version of the “we’ve always been criminals” line was also used in Captain America Civil War when Hawkeye was talking to Tony in the prison? Don’t know if it was an intentional reference or not, but it always stood out to me.
I'm in a weird place with this movie because I *like* it, but the more Zack Snyder talks about it, the more I feel like my *reasons* for liking it are the opposite of why he expected people to like it
I mean... to be fair, Linkara. "X v Y" is commonly how court cases are titled. So the title pretty much implies that Batman is taking Supes to court to sue him XD
It's kind of sad how WB/AT&T is getting their Ass kick by MCU and they don't even own all of their characters. Imagine if the MCU had the rights to ALL of their characters from day one.
@@savagedarksider5934 sadly that’s highly accurate however one thing I will give the mcu because even though they didn’t had all there characters they at least had a plan and build up there universe organically with the characters they had and it actually worked, while wb/dc on the other hand yeah while they did had all of there characters they were trying to rush there universe to catch up to marvel which unfortunately didn’t work and blew up in there face literally. Which is sad because the dc universe is one of those universe that could be great for a cinematic universe but nope wb rushed it and now we have no idea what they are doing with this universe now.
@@savagedarksider5934 yeah that’s true and sadly wb and there stupidity are still doing this crap for a lot of there dc films, well okay that’s kind of not true because they did finally give us the justice league Snyder cut though then again that could’ve been more AT&T then wb themselves which makes sense. Now as for wb still being embarrassed about there superhero movies even now I can see that argument being legit.
@@TevyaSmolka I suggest you watch A couple of Videos made by Sam Reviews on DCEU. They're old but his points still stand. He go by the name Samuel Gavin.
I used to really like this movie. I had watched tons of reviews against it like how Batman kills people and that's bad. But I'd just remember the time Michael Keaton Batman strapped a bomb to a man and smirked. So stuff like that just really didn't bug me. But then I saw a clip I'd seen more than a few times. Superman smashes the Batmobile and says. "Next time they shine your light in the sky, don't go to it. The bat is dead, consider this mercy." And I was like. "Clark would never say that." And I don't know. I've seen that scene countless times but that particular time it just really rubbed me the wrong way.
*peeks around the corner holding a copy of the “Batman & Superman: The Noah Da Ark Cut” script which instead has Superman simply picking up the Batmobile so he can talk with Batman peacefully* If only I was allowed to make this movie…
The Keaton/Burton Batman is a great Golden Age Batman movie. During the Golden age Batman killed a lot of criminals... The [No Killing Rule] became hard coded later.
Back then I wasn't a comic book then I was maybe 14, But as I left the theatre I remember thinking I didn't like what I saw. And I wondered how these characters have become iconic this is what they were likely, After becoming a comic fan these past decade I've learn Zac Snyder was the last person they should have hired for DC Comics.
Linkara: Truth be told, I kind of wish I was reviewing Man of Steel instead.
Monkey's Paw: *curls one of it's fingers*
Batman vibrates Superman...
"Heroes don't do that."
Unless you're a yaoi fan girls.
nice bro!
@@joshuafranklin5636 🤣 pretty much. Superbat is a baby ship for shippers.
@@katherinealvarez9216
Have those shippers ever heard of “Midnight and Apollo”?
And YOU win the internet today, sir!
„How do you feel about the name Robin“ as Batman‘s default response to orphans is a good bit.
Follow up question "How do you like the taste of rats?"
@@TeknoBoy "He likes chips!"
@@katherinealvarez9216 Hooray I understood that reference!
@@Kid_Spitfire 👍
It'd be funny if he said that to a girl who hated birds
To be fair, they couldn’t call it “World’s Finest”because it would be false advertising.
Pretty much. I like BvS but the Timmverse version is light-years above it.
Yeah but I feel "Dawn of Justice" is also false advertising.
How? they both fine men
How about “Brave and the Bold”?
And people do not know what it means if not comic fans. And it’s kind of cheesy and silly.
20:34
Wasn't there a comic where Lex made an ai to figure out Superman's secret identity and it zeroed in on Clark Kent but Lex rejected it saying no God-like figure would deign to be a geeky mid level reporter.
Yes, the second issue of Superman post-crisis by John Byrne. Great run until it went off the rails
I'm just picturing the bit in the Simpsons with Chief Wiggum and the 555 number.
Lex: "Beautiful, computer, did you figure out Superman's secret identity?"
Computer: "Sure did Lex"
Lex: "Clerk Kent... Aw geez, that's gotta be phony."
"Bruce Wayne? I know Bruce Wayne! If he's Batman, then I'm the Queen of England!" ~Two-Face, Batman TAS
Heroes used to be clever
Reminds me of that moment in JL animated where Flash and Lex switch bodies and when Lex takes off the mask, he has no idea who Barry Allen is 🤣
@@Roserae16 *Wally West
I know it's a joke, but the idea of Bruce Wayne adopting an orphan who lost her parents to the Zod fight, training her to be Robin? Can you imagine the stories that could come from a Robin who's anti-kryptonian? A Robin who acts as a constant reminder to Batman and Superman about the dangers of superpowered beings who don't think about the collateral damage? I mean, Snyder loves misunderstanding the Dark Knight Returns, so why not a Carrie Kelley?
That's actually a really cool idea
Though likely unintentional on Snyder's part, it'd also be an interesting twist on a Robin given that Dick Grayson, in most continuities, greatly admires Superman and usually gets the Nightwing name from him.
@@DepressedFishey123 It is actuallt even a good reason to have a child be trained almost as a soldier and would even fit zack snyder's tone for his movies
@@ianr.navahuber2195 Don't mean to be a dick but fix your grammar I can't understand what you're trying to say.
That would have been a far more interesting movie
Zack Snyder: "You're living in a dream world!".
Superman: "Good! Dreams save us. Dreams lift us up and transform us into something better. And, on my soul, I swear that until my dream of a world where dignity, honor, and justice are the reality we all share, I'll never stop fighting! Ever!".
Zack Snyder: *so angry he left and sent his rapid fans to attack Superman**
"What's so Funny About Truth, Justice, and the American Way" is easily one of my top 3 Superman stories.
@@samcyphers2902 I haven't read it, but I have seen the animated movie based on it, 'Superman VS The Elite'.
@@Optimegatrongodzilla The adaptation improves on the comic in quite a few ways, but is worth reading on its own. Only 1 issue.
Superframe actually used that quote from Supes to respond to Snyder refusing to understand Superman. Not sure if that's where you got this, but yeah. Hopefully Corenswet gets the opportunity to give us that hopeful optimistic Superman we deserve.
I actually like the moment when Bruce hugs the little girl to comfort her after her Mom died, that feels like something Batman would do
Oh 100%. To quote Red from OSP: “If you can’t imagine your Batman comforting a scared kid, then I’m sorry but you have the Punisher in a silly hat”
@@gennybaratta2460 and its really one of the few times where batman truly feels like batman in the entire movie and he's not even in the bat costume yet
Love the moment in CW's COIE when Cryer Lex meets Smallville Clark Kent. First, even after hopping across the multiverse, even with a Clark Kent who was Superman right in front of his face, Lex still denies that his Superman could ever have a human identity. Second, I love that Lex is dumbfounded that Clark would give up his superpowers. Cryer really sells Lex's disbelief and rage that someone with the powers of a god could just walk away from it with zero regret.
Cryer got a lot better with his Luthor parts over time.
It wasn't that he denied the possibility of his Superman having a human identity, it was the idea of his Clark Kent secretly being Superman that he found impossible.
the icing on that cake is when Smallville Clark flat out says to Cryer "you're no Lex Luthor" like DAMN even without heat vision Clark can still leave that bad of a burn on someone.
So from what I can tell Zack Synder really wanted this to be called Dayman vs Nightman.
Champion of the Sun.
@@wstine79
Knight of darkness
Master of Karate and Friendship for everyone
So... Moon Knight vs Sun King? Nah, that's Marvel and would probably actually be amazing. Particularly if Marc is well cast.
I'm taking this for myself.
Just to note, "The First Avenger" was added in order to give foreign markets an option for a secondary title in case that market thought "Captain America" would be too problematic.
Then why not call it “The golden age”, or something?
@@daelen.cclark Cause the golden age doesnt just refer to comics and isnt specific to Marvel?
Where as The First Avenger is, I guess.
*shrug* I dont know, I'm just guessing here
It could also be to differentiate that other Captain America film that came out in the early 1990’s.
@@brandonlyon730 oh yeah THAT Captain America movie.
We don’t speak of it
@@pokejoseph I mean, it Stars the Grandson of the Writer of 'Catcher in the Rye.'
What's not to love?!?
The best way to fix the whole "Jimmy Olson" debacle: retcon it so that the CIA guy was a completely different person who was using "Jimmy Olson" as a cover alias. Then you can introduce the real version somewhere down the line.
I'd honestly be tempted to have him be an important character as well as Clark's down to earth pal JUST to annoy the guy who thought HIS use of the name was "fun."
While we’re at it, do something like that with Cassandra Cain from Birds of Prey.
When they said that his codename was Agent Talon, I thought about the Court of Owls. It would be nice if they actually used it by stating that he really was a member of the Court of Owls, and he took the name of Jimmy Olsen because, in that universe, he's a very renowned photographer
@@notmyrealname453 She could just develop into a more accurate version. When i watched Birds of Prey, I thought "hey, I really want to see how THIS Cassandra Cain becomes the character we know and love"
@@NIDELLANEUM hmmm, I don't know court of owls beyond them being a secret society of the rich based out of Gotham. Do you think they could anchor a movie as main villains?
Honestly this Lex feels more like TOYMAN!
I mean his looks, red long hair
His personality, he's a manchild and treats Superman, Batman and Doomsday like toys
In fact it wouldve been better if he was Toyman because the characterization would be accurate and theyre brining in an obscure Superman foe as the main villain
I thought of him as a knock off Riddler from Forever, but I can agree on him being more Schott
I've always felt he was like a weird mashup of the campy 60s Joker and The Riddler, but I do like the idea of him being Toyman
The guy in the wheelchair could have also been turned into METALLO! Metallo would have been more fitting for the movie's final boss, instead of bringing in Doomsday too early (and in such a dumb way).
To bring Him up (won't mention by name), he portrayed Lex as Joker.
The thing is, he would have been an excellent Riddler. I could see Nigma as this nervously awkward, manic super genius pulling the strings behind a massive conspiracy to get Batman and Superman to both go completely insane and kill each other. He would have worked perfectly as the character in a Christopher Nolan Dark Knight movie. But as Lex Luthor, everything is all wrong. When I think Lex Luthor, I think of a more restrained, conniving presence who gives off an abandon all hope air, even when he's being jovial. A calm and collected figure, who's constantly waiting to see things go terribly and already thinking of how to profit or benefit from it in some way, especially if it makes Supes look bad or gets in his head. This one just has an air of probably has dozens of restraining orders out against him. Yeah, he is like The Joker. Unfortunately, it's the Jared Leto one. I'm SOOOO glad they didn't have any scenes together.
"I want them to bring back lemon Jolly Ranchers as part of the main line, and not as a separate, harder to find candy."
THANK YOU! FINALLY SOMEONE GETS IT!
There was lemon jolly rancher ?
@@daryltor7608
Yeah, there were.
I love how Synder tried to 'modernise' Lex Luthor from being a 'rich, bald industrialist'...has anyone ever showed Zack a picture of Jeff Bezos?! Hell, just cast someone to be a pastiche of Bezos and he'd work as Lex Luthor.
No billionaire in our world would fit Lex.
Lex is evil, but does good things as long as they benefit him, and he has shown ethical behavior from time to time, like in the DCAU.
Bezos, Musk, Kotick, et al are straight up boring supervillains, at worst Ted Faro from Horizon.
@@shis1988 If anything he's closest to Bill Gates. Did and probably still does a lot of shady stuff, but throws money at philanthropy either way.
I think he was trying to go for a more Elon Musk type of CEO.
@@carloszapata847 "i've got you now, superman! that tesla you're in has kryptonite in the trunk, and the automatic locks have trapped you inside!"
@@carloszapata847
Glass Onion’s Miles Bron did that CEO type better.
The best way to describe BvS is the shot(no pun intended) of the gun shooting Martha in the opening, and how apparently Snyder never thought once "Huh. Maybe using Tom Holkenborg's DJ name 'Junkie XL' in the credit over this dramatic moment could distract and detract from this scene".
Snyder is just so preoccupied with showing his vision, he almost never stopped to think out anything around the film BUT the visuals.
ohh wow how sarcastic
"It's entirely possible they just assumed they'd be fired for leaving the office even if the building was destroyed and half the staff killed."
You know, 6 months down the line, the whole thing with the Kentucky Hurricane and the candle factory/amazon just makes the statement depressingly accurate.
I think Captain America The First Avenger works in the sense that Cap’s the first real hero in the MCU. The first hero from the past whose legacy stretches to the modern day, an inspiration for millions of people to keep fighting despite the odds.
I agree. People always oversee that or misunderstand the title to the first Captain America!
Yup, he predates the other Avengers. He is literally the first Avenger.
Yeah
11:36 "How do you feel about the name Robin?" Actually, Batman adopting that little girl as the next Robin would have been a great addition to the story. Imagine if SHE had confronted Superman.
I actually wish they did that, i mean they take inspiration from TDKR wich had Carrie Kelly, a female Robin. Just tweak her origin a bit and Boom.
Yeah, maybe have her be a young Betty Kane or Stephanie Brown.
@@erickamakeeaina1649 Yes, at least that'd put Bruce in constant contact with someone who'd actually suffered from the Kryptonian beatdown from MoS, and give him personal reasons to be suspicious and distrustful of Superman.
@@erickamakeeaina1649 maybe snyder could make a dkr adaptation wear he says Bruce did adopt her but she just stayed inside the room bruce Wayne.
@@YSL8704 I can see it
"How do you like the name Robin?"
Actually, that might've been an interesting thing to do for the film. Have the girl Bruce saves at the beginning be Carrie Kelly and have her be the DCEU's take on Robin. That would help give Bruce some personal investment in his conflict with Superman and maybe have her act as his moral center who stops Bruce from going too far.
I mean hell they're already throwing a lot of Dark Knight Returns homage in this. Why not go all the way?
@@tomhur1
agreed
Quite a good idea, honestly.
I'll be honest I don't like Carrie kelley, how about Stephenie brown or Cassadra cain either are in my humble opinion much better Robin than Carrie who is just there.
@@kazinadbiralamadit6905 honestly, Cassandra would be too good for a movie like this. she has too much introduction and development that she NEEDS to go through before she can be part of just a regular movie. Maybe a tv show could've pulled it off, but no way in hell could this film.
The Incredibly Strange Batman who stopped living and Became Giant Superman's All-Out Attack! And that's still not half as stupid as the actual title.
That sounds like one of those old cheesy low budget 50s scifi movies lol
@@grumpysphinx4911 That's because it is. It's a reference to a film called "The Incredibly Strange Creatures Who Stopped Living and Became Mixed-Up Zombies." Mystery Science Theatre 3000 did a riff on it. It's weird to say the least.
*started killing
Batman v. Superman: Cry for Justice. "Together we can be justice!" More evidence this is not the worst timeline.
oh dear god
Then what is the worst timeline?
@@dragonstormx the timeline where we don’t have Linkara
@@treyurbach2550 I see.
@AT Productions still not as stupid a title as 'Son of Sun' and 'Knight of Night'
"People called Superman, they go to the house"?
*THIS* is why I continue to watch you, Linkara! You get it!
"What have the Justice League ever done for us?!"
13:21-13:37 Not to mention simple forensics tests could easily determine those guys were burned by a flamethrower based on the pattern of burning and chemical residue.
What's funnier about your talk of how Lex would balk at Superman having a secret identity, is that one time, he actually found out Superman's identity thanks to a hired profiler.
And fired her. Because she found out Clark was Superman, but Lex was so deadset in the idea that Superman would not lower himself to such a low human being like Kent. He had his nemesis' secret identity in his hands, and his own ego would not allow him to believe such.
My favorite reason for why Lex hates Superman is that he’s projecting on him *hard.* Because he’d abuse such power, he assumes Superman is too, he’s just sly about it.
This version of Lex felt more like Arcade from Marvel than anything else.
I feel a new Batman film that establishes how he fits into the world before the crossover would have helped. Maybe one that implies he's only fought mob-boss-with-gimic villains before now, but a step forward in tech thanks to kryptonian wreckage has led to the creation of his powered enemies, leading to him blaming kryptonians for the worsening situation in Gotham.
I'm not overly fond of this Luthor either...as Luthor.
As Toyman, he would've been AMAZING. Nobody does Toyman anymore. S:TAS and Justice League the animated series used him quite a bit, but he's the *perfect* villain for this sort of thing.
Yeah but this is Classic Luthor A petty egotistical narcissist with delusions of Grandeur and Daddy issues. STAS toned down a lot of Lex's negative qualities so they could have them flair up at times for shock value. But Then I grew up with this guy th-cam.com/video/icBG4FchaQ0/w-d-xo.html
Yeah, kind of would be interesting to have the Toyman in a modern film. Maybe give him a bit of a Jigsaw vibe (assuming they didn't already do that with the Riddler in The Batman), and kind of have him develop all sorts of tricks and traps for his enemies.
Possibly even have him "play a game" with Superman, involving him kind of testing his powers and overall good nature, to see if he can basically save certain people on time, kind of like when Kessler did a bit of a moral test for Cole in the 1st infamous game.
I thought he'd have made a decent Riddler. I kept waiting for him soout off "Riddle me this" so often.
Heck. They even did an episode of Static Shock with Toyman as the villain where he made big toys that had Kryptonite mixed into their plastic for crying out loud.
@@retrogamelover2012 agreed and would be nice to see other superman villains other than Lex and Zod( although this movie did use doomsday)
"If the V doesn't stand for versus, then what is it supposed to stand for?"
I'm partial to "Batman venmos Superman: Dawn of Interest"
I thought it was related to the sci-fi series V. Which makes me wonder which of them are the lizard aliens. My money is on Batman. Mostly because his mind is on another planet.
Isn’t it kind of common it sport to just put v instead of verses?
Batman Venerials Superman
I mean, given Bruce bought the Kent Farm in Justice League for Clark - there is an argument for such a title
@@irishnonsensegaming This is the best response. I didn't even think of that.
“Dawn of Justice” is right up there with “The Faces of Evil” in the realm of subtitles they thought sounded deep and poetic and meaningful but were actually just stupid.
Hell, Jonathan Kent could have walked gingerly to the storm shelter and survived.
But didn’t he injure his leg?
@@skibot9974 yeah there's that but clark could have saved him without using his powers
@@jadenbryant9283 Ah but Clark shouldn’t…maybe he should? I don’t know maybe a Man of Steel fan can condescendingly fill me in on it
@@skibot9974
Jon could lean on Clark’s shoulder as they walk together.
Batman VS Superman: Together we can be Justice….I’m not sure it I improved the title or made it worse you decide
Justice or *Just us?* 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
@@sebastianemond5313 Or just ice?
5 minute segment in the movie:
"I am a man!"
"No, I am a man!"
"No, I am a man!"
"No, I am a man!"
"No, I am a man!"
"No, I am a man!"
"No, I am a man!"
"No, I am a man!"
"No, I am a man!"
...
@@drachasor *when fighting Doomsday*
"We are both men!"
Wonder Woman: "I am a woman, but cool!"
Better
Linkara: "Tell me, Miller. Do you bleed ink?"
Miller: "I bleed. I bleed booze"
@@thatonea-hole no no, you forgot the random emphasis.
I *bleed.* I bleed *booze* and *bigotry.*
Everytime I hear the "Do you bleed" line I just think of Rich Evans talking about what Ant-Man would have been like if Zack Snyder directed it.
"Ant-Man, do you bleed tiny blood?"
"You WIIIIIIILLLLLLLLLLLL"
The problem with Zack is that he seems to focus on the style more than the substance and then decides to go overboard with the darkness in both a literal and figurative sense which is why we have Superman breaking a guys neck, and Pa Kent doing his whole "the world isn't ready for heroes" shtick and telling Clark not to use his abilities to save lives (right before he told the Firemen and beach Lifeguards to just turn a blind eye and watch some TV instead).
Zack Snyder is a capable cinematographer, but if you hand him one decision surrounding that cinematography, then his abilities will be wasted, guaranteed. Also he’s an Objectivist, and it is extremely rare for Objectivists to make anything good.
What happened to Zack Snyder during the development was Justice League and how WB handled his movie was awful and something I wouldn't wish on any filmmaker. That being said, people should understand that it doesn't mean his current and previous work is now suddenly immune from criticism.
Seriously it seems like it's become a law on the internet to kiss his ass regardless of his work not being that great.
@@DinoDave150 😂😂😂😂😂well said mate.. These idiots were even praising Army of the Dead just cause Synder directed it. He ruined DC but only these idiots never realized that
@@tanime_man6535 I'll still maintain that Zack Snyder's Justice League is actually pretty good, but it still does have its Snyder-isms and the only reason characters like Batman or Superman were better in that film than in BvS was that the plot didn't allow for pontificating on Superman's godlike status or give Batman a chance to shoot anyone.
@@brycebitetti1402
Well said.
When I heard that Jesse Eisenberg was casted,I figured that they would use the character in The Social Network but have him be unambiguously evil.
I have no idea what this performance was about.
I think he thought he was playing Edward Nigma, aka The Riddler.
@@matthewrosenthal753 a hopped up puzzle and riddle enthusiast who does crime?
That makes way too much sense.
I actually agree. That's basically what I thought, and while I'm not sure it would have been the best take on Lex, it would have been better than the shit we got.
@@matthewrosenthal753 How was he playing Nigma? Nigma used riddles. Lex never did in BvS.
@@3DSDF Nigma is a manic nut obsessed with leaving clues. Which is exactly what Lex does for the entire film. As films I enjoyed the Snyderverse but for a guy that “loves” the Dark Knight he really screwed up the character. Really watch Zach Snyder’s justice league. Batman literally has Wonder Woman pointedly explain what his nightmare message from the Flash means. He just says no, I think it’s something darker. By that point what he witnessed with his own eyes should have told him that she was right. Yet, he denies it. Which leads directly to the Nightmare future. This film , Batman v Superman, is really where the movies start to make the Worlds greatest detective a complete idiot.
"Batman Values Superman."
Actually, the V always made laugh because that's how court cases are recorded, so it's like the climax of the film should be the two suing each other in court.
I wonder if Snyder's adoration of Atlas Shrugged is the reason Luthor isn't a traditional billionaire CEO in this, but a wacky, "modern" one, while Bruce - the hero - is very much the type.
No Ayn Rand fan should be allowed within a mile of Batman.
@@Dreigonixno any rand fan should be allowed near anything
I just realized how much of the DCEU takes inspiration from the New 52
Explains a lot, actually
It does, it does indeed.
cough cough "modern Harley Quinn" cough cough ush aadhuou NHEF HWEO
It’s a Möbius strip of edge-filled stupid.
@@Pikachu2Ash
Yes, but at least they give a somewhat good reason for her in her N52 suit.
A statement of her getting away from the joker.
If they took more inspiration from the Year One issues, I feel like a lot could’ve been better. Maybe
Linkara when reviewing Batman v Superman: "Truth be told, I kinda wish I was reviewing Man of Steel instead."
Linkara when reviewing Man of Steel: "THAT WAS NOT AN INVITATION!"
Another problem with the “god” dialogue is that is inconsistent
First Lex says “Devils come from the sky” obviously referring to Superman.
But then later “If the man can´t kill god, the devil will do it”
So what is Superman? A god or a devil? Lex Luthor entire motivation is explained in metaphors but the metaphors are not consistent
And he´s making a clear distinction between gods and devils so you can´t even argue that he´s saying they are one in the same or something in those lines
Yeah, and I really hate the constant comparisons between superheroes and gods. Not only is it melodramatic and pretentious but its inaccurate. Superheroes aren't the gods from classic myths, they're the heroes. They're the new King Arthurs, Hercules, Odysseus and Atlantas'.
@@GeneralKenobi75 yeah unless your from the Norse mythology who interact with mortal often in most of their stories
@@edstevenskw5542 that's hardly unique though, the Greek deities interacted with mortals all the time. Zeus sure liked interacting with the mortal ladies.
The gods generally don't have the humanity of the mortal (or semi mortal) heroes and don't really go though the same character growth or usually have the same struggles even when they are the central characters to a story. They pretty much are just the same as they don't have to change.
@@edstevenskw5542 Exactly. The gods and goddesses of Norse myths are more like humans than most other gods. Thor's adventures are more like those of Hercules or Odyesseus. And the Justice League aren't like the Olympian Pantheon, they're the Knights of the Round Table. The only time the heroes of the DC universe being compared to gods actually worked was in Kingdom Come, and that was more due to the circumstances and the fact the heroes like Superman and Wonder Woman had become so removed from regular society by cutting themselves off from the rest of the world. And the story was how they learned to reconnect with people.
It’s say something when Alan Moore is more about the parallels between superheroes and gods and monsters. Incidentally please keep sunder away from miracle man.
In an alternate universe, Batman/Superman: Dawn of Justice has just released in theaters. We pan in on an audience staring raptly at the screen where Clark and Bruce argue. A child speaks, “Mom, why aren’t they kissing yet?” His mother responds, “Timmy, a romance needs to be built up. Be patient.” End scene.
The Superman statue kind of looks like he is bowling.
I can't picture this Superman bowling. At least not with a smile.
FALSE GOD (of bowling)
Lex Luthor being a CEO is the best idea ever to the character. It makes him the greatest villain - good PR, human supremacist and corrupt. We need Lex Luthor as THE proper antagonist he needs to be, because he is the wildcapitalist who would ruin everything, even the world economy, for selfish goals.
I think a combination of mad scientist and CEO is the best approach. Luthor should be dangerous with or without money, and I like the idea that if Superman exposes Luthor for who he is and finally gets him in prison, Luthor will simply no longer hold back and invent stuff like his power suit to directly fight Superman.
@@evanbao93
cool
@@evanbao93 Like the DCAU Lex Luthor? That merged the businessman and mad scientist into a single character.
@@Oturan20 Precisely. That's why DCAU Luthor is one of the best, if not the best, Lex Luthors in media. I do love how they started him off as a successful corrupt businessman who ends up adopting the life of a rogue mad scientist once he gets exposed as a criminal by the Justice League.
@@evanbao93 Bolstered by Clancy Brown's perfect voice for the character.
There's a reason why he's been voicing the character so many times (both in the DCAU and outside of it).
Batman V Superman: How not to start a Cinematic Universe
Agree albeit
Universal: “hold my not!wine” LOL
Still better that the Mummy.
@@Prisoner_of_Gravity Oh yeah we can all agree on that at least
@@SiRenfield At least Universal can say they’re *smarter* then WB because they at least pulled the plug and said “nope! We need to step back and reconsider this idea!”
That got us the 2020 Invisible Man, which is good
@@NoahDaArk Fair enough. Granted I’m in the category of “the DCEU got BETTER” (loved Birds of Prey and James Gunn’s Suicide Squad) that’s not to say that they’re perfect ,but at least it’s a sign that they’re learning from their mistakes even if not necessarily enough to redeem it entirely. And I understand Lewis being ST BEST hesitant to watch the ones after it because even the ones I mentioned can be somewhat tied back to Man of Steel thanks to both being sequels to Suicide Squad 2016 even if even they’re trying to distance themselves from that movie by making it as accessible for people who haven’t or refuse to see that one LOL
Zack Snyder to me feels like a *Hollywood version of Rob liefeld* where you can tell he has a *intense enthusiasm* for what he's doing but at the same time there is a underbelly of *disdain and embarrassment* for what he's in charge of, *his Batman is Crazy Steve* and his *Superman is Dr. Manhattan*
After finding your channel last summer I've grown an appreciation respect and love for the characters and when I watch Zack Snyder ruin these characters in only makes me hate him as a director, and I asked this question what's so wrong with truth, justice and the American way?
I pretty much agree. Snyder is someone who wants to write dark stories but fails to understand that he is working with a fundamentally optimistic genre. Superhero stories are always going to have an undercurrent of hope in them and silliness that makes all attempts to make them dark just come off edgy.
@@paulbutkovich6103 he's a guy who has a "vision" without eyes or any awareness, when I see that people want him to come back I actually am disappointed with the audience because they are saying that they like Zack or embarrassed and hate the genre that they love at the end of the day this is for kids and if you have to tell your young son he can't go see a Superman movie because he kills a guy among countless others is under bullshit.
He had his chance it's time to give it to somebody who actually loves the material, Superman and Lois is excellent in the only good Superman media out now that gets and loves The Source material
this is why the whedon cut is better than the snyder cut. Whedon at least tried
Given how he claimed to have been inspired by Watchmen, I feel it's more accurate to say his Batman is Rorschach.
He said in an interview how Watchmen influenced his ideas about writing superheroes, missing that the characters killing people in Watchmen was supposed to be a sign they weren't heroes. Rorschach wasn't the badass who finds the truth like he thought he was. He was a failure who couldn't get anywhere trying to uncover Ozymandias' plot and got his ass kicked when he faced Ozymandias.
The comic basically said edgy murderers will get their asses kicked if they face traditional superheroes or supervillains.
@@voiceofreason467 th-cam.com/video/6uY4adDqerQ/w-d-xo.html
You can look at Snyder's own words here. He responded to people having an issue with his Batman killing people by INSULTING them. He outright states if you have an idea that your heroes don't do terrible things that "you're living in a fucking dreamworld."
Seriously go watch that. Snyder makes it clear he just loves violence for its own sake.
The Watchmen movie goes out of its way to make the acts of violence in his movie much more flashy and impressive. This is done because Snyder enjoys the violence.
He talks about what Watchmen said about superheroes, saying they were "broken." He missed that the comic wasn't saying superheroes would be like this, it was saying they COULD and that they SHOULDN'T be.
Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice makes it sound like a lawsuit.
Ok so the Son of Sun thing is really funny to me. Because theres a Kamen Rider, Black RX, who gets his powers from the sun. And he calls himself "Taiyo no Musko" Literally Son of the Sun. Though fans normally like to use Child of the Sun for a simple reason. THE DIRECT TRANSLATION IS CLUNCKY AS HELL
Imo calling sups "child of the sun" sounds kind off ok
You've just reminded me that they announced Kamen Rider Black Sun and now I'm hyped again
So thats why Synder fumbled the DCU so bad, he wanted to do a Kamen Rider movie and was upset he was stuck with dumb superheroes.
@@Future_Vantas No! None of that! Shame on you.
In honestly if Snyder was given a Rider series to adapt I say Faiz would be good. That season was very grimdark
(whispers) "And together, we can _be_ justice!"
...that was ten years ago, that review...gods, we're so old...
10 years?? God, Feels like it was yesterday.
*JUSTICE!*
What review?
@@Krmelj1308 Cry for Justice
@@Krmelj1308 Cry for Justice, naturally.
So... Jimmy Olsen is introduced in this movie, and five seconds later he's dead?
Kinda hard for me to decide which modern version got his character wrong the most: BvS, or Supergirl.
This version. Supergirl at least let Jimmy do stuff.
@@tomhur1
😆
*THANK*
*YOU*
@@tomhur1 yeah, not to mention he at least gets a pass with the fact he's an amalgamation with The Guardian
Ok, not even finished with the video but....that line about the lemon Jolly Ranchers hit me man. Jeez I want those back.
Killing off characters can be fun if you're a sadistic writer, but you have to make sure there's a narrative purpose for it or dark humor to be had from it. If you're just doing it for shock value, you're lazy and possibly a sociopath.
The CIA Agent Reveal and Shooting Jimmy Olsen, as a "gag", are just two ideas essentially at odds. If you're going to dark comically kill Jimmy Olsen with gunfire, he has to be an actual photographer, and that bullet has to hit him through the camera.
what about when in deadpool 2, brad pitt agreed to make his cameo apperance as an invisible character whose main purpose is to die just for the minimum wage and a cup of coffee
@@ianr.navahuber2195 there was a narrative purpose there, namely to mock cheap cameos and all the other lame Rob Liefeld creations who were not Deadpool and Cable.
@@Volvagia1927 Yeah but even THAT feels mean-spirited and pointless...
@@Vesperitis And Domino too
As much as I like Batman v Superman and the Snyder cut, I disagree with his vision for the DCEU as a whole and I’m glad it’s going in a different direction.
Oh, Alec and Shanna being CIA agents is the least of our worries; in the DCEU, Ms. Wilson's the Anti-Monitor.
Wait, Alexander luthor jr….
Oh my god! please don’t let Jesse eisenberg get antimatter power in a later film. It’s bad enough We had the cw crisis.
@@changvasejarik62 don't worry, Snyderverse died
Wait, really?
I personally would’ve gone with a subtitle like “World’s finest”, or “Trinity formation”, or “Knights of tomorrow”, or “Brave and the Bold”, or even a different nonsense name like “Knightly returning”.
(With tons of rewrites, of course.)
This movie doesn't deserve the title of "World's Finest". Since the heroes here ain't at their finest! Though I agree could've used the "Trinity" title
Hell I would’ve just dropped the Batman v Superman part of the title and keep Dawn of Justice as the title. Yes it’s basically still obviously showing how this is a painfully obvious catch-up movie but at least it’s more succinct.
@@thatonea-hole
Good point.
@@incitossol
I suppose so.
But it still sounds dumb to me.
World's Finest gets my vote
I liked how Bruce was perched in a corner in the beginning of the film, all out of focus like a horror movie monster. Batman being presented like a dark creature to everyone except his friends and allies is something I always enjoy.
That’s a positive that’s stuck with me.
If they wanted a Lex Luthor that was maniacal, Machiavellian and a bit manic, they should have really cast Nicolas Cage given how he can pull off stuff like that and gets the character because he's a massive comic nerd (plus it would be a good way for him to make up not getting the chance to play Supes in the cancelled 'Superman Lives' movie).
Also, Snyder thought he was making TDKR, but he ended up being one "I'm the Goddamn Batman" away from making the cinematic equivalent of ASBAR.
Great, now I have the image of Nicholas Cage doing the rant about god being tribal.
@@Metrion77 and he would have made the "candy in that man's mouth" scene look terrifying with the way he acts
That would be a fun casting gag since he was originally going to play Superman years a ago.
I would've loved that movie If Nicholas Cage had been in it, especially as Luthor.
Snyder could've still used the "peach tea jar" scene, in fact it would've been more believable with Cage as Luthor.
8:17 No pushback regarding the ending; a criticism I've always had about Man of Steel was the ending. I LOVE movies that take their time with their respective endings so we can process the entire movie around the time it ends. However, after Superman's breakdown over killing Zod, we don't really get to see Clark process that he's the last son of Krypton. We only get about 2 - 3 minutes of an ending, so there's no time to process Clark's journey in the entire film.
yeah. at least something. like he talking to his dad's grave about wondering if this is right or wrong.
and he saying something like "i might be the member of another planet, but honestly, i just see myself as another human"
@@ianr.navahuber2195 Maybe even a scene where Lois asks Clark where he's going; Clark responds by saying "I have to visit my father."
@@EricGraham94 the emphasis of Clark's Bond With his dad would Even fit the Snyder cut justice league theme of fatherhood
@@ianr.navahuber2195 One scene I also wish Man of Steel included was a scene similar to the first Raimi Spider-Man film where Peter, after his high school graduation, missed Uncle Ben and said "I can't help thinking about the last thing he said to me. He tried to tell me something important and I threw it in his face." Hell Zack Snyder openly admitted in March 2019 during an event about him that Sam Raimi's Spider-Man is his favorite Spider-Man!
@@EricGraham94 yeah.
sure it might make jonatahn's actions of letting himself die look weirder but it could be an interesting dilemma that clark actually feels conflicted of obeying jonathan's order of letting him die. thinking "I should have ignored him and rescue him. Why I didn't?".
Heck, Maybe even discuss it with AI Jor-El about "was my dad in the right by letting himself die just so i wouldn't expose myself?". I am prety sure AI Jor-El would have something to say
Maybe even have clark apologizing to his dad's grave about how he is gonna show himself to the world and try to help and be a better man (show a montage of superman helping people either with stuff as mudnane as rescuing a cat out of a tree, OR helping recosntruct metropolis after zod's invasion) but in his own way (have clark say "showing one side of me to the people, but keeping a side for myself. one that can just be just like everyone else", showing him arrive to the Daily Planet).
And saying something like "I might stumble, I might fall, but maybe tomorrow, i might help others accomplish wonders." (which would be a kinda obvious, in the nose but good way to have clark not see himself as a god or an alien, but just as a human being) while he is going to the daily planet (maybe even have him literally stumbling a little)
and then after lois' "welcome to the planet" dialogue, haveclark over black screen saying in voice over
"I hope you can be proud of your son when that happens". AND JUST THEN cut to the "Man of Steel" titles
It would have been a contrast to raimi's spider man where peter caused the death of his uncle by inaction and because he didn't listen to him.
and it would make man of steel's ending better. replace that part of superman destroying the satellite, have the montage of superman helping people and it would improve man of steel way more.
it would be a good contrast to the overwhelming sense of bigger dangers out there with something hopeful at the end. it can even be a way to have this clark not be a true superman, but still be learning.
and i say that as someone who likes man of steel. it is good as it is, but the ending after superman kills Zod could be WAY more better.
Again, there's something certainly off when Jon Cryer and The CW do Lex Luthor's megalomania better than Hollywood. I mean he's REALLY good as Lex on Supergirl.
Jesse Eisenberg’s acting choices in this movie are so baffling to me. Even years later.
And he was Lenny Luthor for crying out loud. That is range.
And Cryer started as an annoying sidekick to Luthor in quest for peace.
It's because Jon Cryer is a HUGE comic book nerd, owns and read everything. He wants to do Lex justice. That is what we need in comics movies and shows, the actors to give a shit.
@@jlev1028 Eh, depends on the depiction. He was growing a beard in the DCAU when Braniac kidnapped him to endlessly work on repairing him.
I worked at a theater and we held a late-night employee screening when the theatrical version came out. We ended up standing around for an hour after the movie was over, picking apart the entire thing together because there was SO MUCH to criticize about it.
"I will never approve of a Patreon review of the Snyder Cut of Justice League."
... Alright, Linkara, how much do you mean by "never"? [Reaches for wallet.]
Let's say... triple or quadruple the standard rate?
@@bthsr7113 I don't think that's gonna be enough...
I do agree; BvS was a **slight** step above MoS. I pin it mostly on Jeremy Irons being the finest Alfred yet committed to film.
Eh. I kinda prefer Michael Caine's Alfred but Jeremy Irons does a good job
@@thatonea-hole Michael Caine was awesome. My personal favorite was Efrem Zimbalist Jr. (Animated Series Alfred)
Okay I would kinda like to see the Snyderverse Tandy Computer Wiz Kids. Morbid fascination, you understand.
#ReleaseTheComputerWizKidsCut
Probably NSA agents.
It was Lex in the movie. i know they changed it later, but I remember the original ads and marketing material called him Lex. That's backtracking of the highest magnitude.
Honestly, I prefer the Timmverse, much more color, much less edge lord.
Funny you should mention that, because in the Noah Da Ark Cut of Batman & Superman (because V is stupid), I actually draw heavily from the DC Animated Universe.
For example:
-the terrorist incident at the start of the film would be similar to the scene in Worlds Finest where Superman stops the plane high jacking.
-Lex Luthor would straight up be the DCAU version of Lex who simply passes himself off as a quirky young CEO to hide his true self from the public (and he has a much better plan to boot only wanting to create a mind control device to use on Superman).
-After having a Heroic Blue Screen of Death and realizing how evil he had started to become, Batman would have ditched the Dark Knight outfit in favor of one more akin to the New Batman Adventures look.
And those are just a few of the ideas I’ve had!
Top 5 Things "V" means in Batman V Superman:
5) Batman Votes Superman: The Kryptonian Candidate
4) Batman Vows Superman: An Epic Proposal
3) Batman Vacationing Superman: Weekend At Lexie's
2) Batman Validates Superman: Parking In Rear
1) Batman Violates Superman: Dawn Of Groping
Come up with your own in the comments.
Batman Vomits Superman: Dawn Of Regurgitation.
Batman Vindicates Superman: Overlooking Kryptonian Flaws
Batman Verbs Superman: How to Excel at English
Batman Vents Superman: Turn the Air Conditioning on, stat
@@jaredsamples6969
Lex Luthor is sus
Batman Vivisects Superman: Superhero Surgeon Simulator
Also, to the whole modernize Luthor by making him a young hip, tech-mogul….Bezos is bald
Snyder also said his Batman could get “raped in prison” …so ya know…maybe not the best guy for this material. The scripts he chooses are also not nearly as smart as he thinks.
Agreed. I really don't get why people want to see Snyder's "vision" for the DC universe. When its just more of his nihilistic and depressing angst fests.
Um... could we maybe get a source for that quote please. I'm not doubting that Snyder said that, I'm just curious about what the context is.
@@seventhbracken4466 during an interview for watchmen he said this :
“Everyone says that about "Batman Begins." "Batman's dark." I'm like, "Okay, no, Batman's cool." He gets to go to a Tibetan monastery and be trained by ninjas. Okay? I want to do that. But he doesn't, like, get raped in prison. That could happen in my movie. If you want to talk about dark, that's how that would go.”
@@stefanfilipovits21 Thanks for the clarification. That said I was kinda hoping for a link. Now, if it's from an article which has been deleted or you otherwise can't provide the original source, then that's understandable. But if you can it would be of great help to me.
@@seventhbracken4466 hey, I get it. You hear that in passing or in a comment section and of course you’d go “uhhhhhhh what?” and need some clarification. It’s a pretty weird thing to say lol.
Every time I saw the title of Batman v Superman, I make a joke about it actually being a court case. The Dawn of Justice subtitle fits it too.
Now I'm imaging an Ace Attorney type game, except with Batman and Superman
@@thatonea-hole HOLD IT!
You imagined an Ace Attorney type game with these characters, (Slams hands on desk) *but did you consider who the prosecutor would be?*
@@CrowTR0bot Objections! Why yes Crow. There is a prosecutor. **dramatic pose with the photo of Batman** It’s Batman of course
Minor spoilers for the My Hero Academia manga but a recent chapter in that had its own version of the "False God" vandalism scene, with a statue of All Might having a sign hung from its neck reading "I am not here". That line makes it sound so much goofier and yet it actually works better for MHA than it did in BvS.
That actually has context. All Might is always saying, "I am here!" or a variation thereof. Not to mention [SPOILERS THAT I WILL NOT DIVULGE TO LEWIS]
Now that’s pretty funny.
The scariest part is that while Superman and Batman’s characterization in these films (The first two at least) can raise a lot of eyebrows, this isn’t even as far as they’ve gone in the past. Evil Superman seems yo be the go-to for most elseworlds (and Injustice, I’m surprised you never brought that game’s questionable plot lines up) and then there’s Crazy Steve, who you have brought up…and he’s so bad that he has his own page on the Villains Wiki…which actually says that DCEU Batman is actually a step up…Yeah…
Crazy Steve has his own page? Is he listed as "Crazy Steve" or "Batman (ASBAR)"?
@@kimifw58 the latter. Not sure if it’s still up, Villains Wiki had gotten rather restrictive lately
@@kimifw58 he’s listed under Batman (Frank Miller)
I’m just saying if BvS Batman had taken in Carrie Kelly (aka the little girl from the prologue) at least he wouldn’t make her eat rats or make sexually suggestive comments about her unlike Crazy Steve
I dunno if anyone remembers, but the DCAU gave us basically Batman V Superman done right - World's Finest.... in fact, that could've been a better title - DC World's Finest!
Calling this move “World’s Finest” would be a billion-dollar lawsuit case of false advertising though.
Batman: Do you bleed? You will!
Superman: (flies back) What was that?
Batman: Nothing! Nothing!!
(Superman flies up and falls back down and wreaks the batmobile even more, and flies up)
Batman: OH REAL MATURE!!!
Nostalgia Critic reference.
That video is better than the movie itself
@@darthcinema4262 That I agree with you on.
@@darthcinema4262 No
Just
No.
@@darthcinema4262
When Doug Walker is considered better, something is wrong.
"Truth be told I kinda wish I'd be reviewing Man of Steel..."
I bet now somebody will sponsor that review :D
They did.
@@daelen.cclark :D
I love how any time a TH-camr has anything critical to say about any of these movies, they feel a need to frontload a 'CALM DOWN, I'm not saying YOU can't love it' disclaimer because it's so widely acknowledged that the more rabid element of the DCEU's fanbase is both highly reactionary and unable to grasp concepts until they are made glaringly obvious. Which kind of explains why they love these movies so much in the first place.
I know right? He didn't do this with the Prequel reviews since us Prequel fans are used to this kind of criticism. The DCEU fans are die-hard.
22:48, And that's my favourite joke in that part of the review. I'm a huge fan of Monty Python
I never understood why Luthor’s main henchmen in this is KGBeast, even though he uses a flamethrower and is based in Gotham City. He should’ve been Firefly!!
*SHRUGS* IDK
This Batman is insane enough that I can buy that he just killed all of his rogues gallery. I actually consider the Joker being alive in this universe a plot hole.
Wait waht!? He was!? Why was it any specific Batman villain? Then again, it's like how he "had fun" with Jimmy. Answered my own question there I guess.
@@williamcronshaw5262 well calender man did make a cameo in the suicide squad movie and black mask was in bird of prey although he died but wasn't killed by batman
@@williamcronshaw5262 and I just now remember riddler was supposed to be in ben Affleck's batman movie before it was cancelled
I thought that using "v" as an abbreviation for "versus" was pretty normal. But some quick googling tells me that (at least in America) it's really only used in legal cases. So this movie really should have been about Batman suing Superman for...I don't know, trespassing into Gotham or something.
Actually "Dawn of Justice" would probably make more sense as a title for a courtroom drama too.
I kind of want a Phoenix Wright game starring or at least including Batman.
I saw a TikTok joking about how this movie should be a court drama while Kramer vs Kramer should be a death match 😂
Bruce Wayne: I am here today gentlemen to Sue Superman for all his worth for the destruction of metropolis and manslaughter of thousand of civilians.
OH
I see it’s an American issue of the V thing🤔
Can I just say I love the “continued in part two” music. It matches the silliness of the subject
In regards to that comment Snyder said about not having room for Jimmy. I say, then don’t include Jimmy at all! Make that agent a nameless redshirt given his only purpose is to die
Funny how 2016 had both DC and Marvel doing vs. movies for their cinematic universes. No surprise Marvel's was better and had it make sense why the heroes were at odds.
I think a big reason for that is that Marvel took the time to build up their characters in their solo movies before bringing them all together for the big crossovers. DC, in an effort to not get left behind, rushed to the big crossover without fully developing all of its characters individually.
Also: Hello there, General Kenobi.
@@thegreatstoneddragon9432 Hello there! Yes, that is very much the reason. Also, the whole Captain America vs. Iron Man is treated as much more a tragedy than just two heroes punching each other. You have two former friends fighting, one driven by revenge the other to protect someone close to him. Civil War is the end of the Avengers. What really results from Superman and Batman's fight?
I've made a big analysis of the Snyder Cut of Justice League and the work of Snyder overall and... I argue in it that Snyder dosen't understand the theme and iconographie. Sure, he put Theme and iconographie... but just because he thinks it's cool, not because he want to comment about the place of gods and super heroes in our culture or anything. Even in Watchmen, he treat it supperficially, sometime saying the exact opposite of what Alan Moore was saying originally.
The best example being the black suit superman in this movie which... is a last minute décision to reference Death and return of Superman without understanding why this suit was originally black, because Superman colors was taken by imposters like Cyborg Superman and he have to get it back by prooving he is the real Superman... which never happen in the movie, everyone already think he is the real Superman and no one tries to replace him or anything.
Plus, all the political theme are gone in Justice League, so all this stuff was probably from David S Goyer rather than Snyder.
Also the black outfit looks dumb in live action. The coloring worked in comic form but in live action it just looks silly.
@@dragonstormx I mean I understand why he wore cuz I read the comics *it's supposed to absorb solar radiation really fast and easy and store it so whenever he wears it he's always really powerful* but it's not explained well
@@K1ng1995 yeah. i wish it was said. maybe also said the original blue costume was still damaged, giving extra reason to say why he picked the black costume.
just small explanations are enough
The best and worst thing about Zack Snyder is that he is like an extremely talented 15 year old boy given a massive budget.
@@K1ng1995 They would’ve explained it in the film, but WB didn’t want Superman to wear the black suit. So Snyder had it darkened a bit so that if they ever gave him the okay, he could go back and change the coloring to make it look black.
Popcorn at the ready! Let's do this!
Oh Eisenberg, what a deluded trainwreck of a performance you gave us...
I take it back. This thumbnail is Viga’s finest work.
I think Snyder considered the secondary mortal supporting cast irrelevant. His blabbering about gods via Luthor the loon and use of "pantheon" suggests a disinterest in the hero's normal lives and friends not directly tied to the heroic personas he's trying to deify.
The Moment they kill Jimmy and made Superman and Batman into killers, all Faith for the Snyderverse was Lost
He said "How do you feel about the name Robin?" and all I could think was Panda Redd's "Alfred, call the guy!"
I hate this movie but the only thing I disagree with is that “Son of Sun vs Knight of Night” sounds worse than “Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice” to me “Son of Sun vs Knight of Night” sounds just goofy enough for me to love
Same.
Yeah, it's goofy and silly and honestly, it's very Silver Age honestly. ...which is the exact opposite of this movie in tone but still.
“Son of Sun vs. Knight of Night” sounds less like a movie title and more like an event comic.
I don't hate it, but if we'd end up with same movie, that'd probably be the tipping point cause wasted potential that such title doesn't seem to match up
I honestly think that it sounds like the title of someone's fanfic
You know, I think you summed up Zack Snyder as a director in the first 5 minutes:- "Pretentious at best, moronic at worst."
He's a competent visual director, able to craft a shot and composition for a visual spectacle. Only he's a poor storyteller. So obsessed with doing something "new" he doesn't realise the reason these things weren't done before wasn't a lack of vision, but the fact that it was never going to work in the first place. Except his ego has blinded him to this fact.
Effectively he's William Shatner on the set of Star Trek V. Only somehow worse.
How Snyder's career survived Sucker Punch I have no earthly idea
Or it _has_ been done before and no one liked it or people got sick of it quickly and he doesn't know because he hates the genre he's writing for.
Won’t lie, I did get a laugh out of “Together, we can be justice” line.
Since it was brought up, did anyone else notice that a version of the “we’ve always been criminals” line was also used in Captain America Civil War when Hawkeye was talking to Tony in the prison? Don’t know if it was an intentional reference or not, but it always stood out to me.
Although there it made I guess a little sense
I've loved your work since back in the CA days, thank you for bringing the smiles for so long!
I'm in a weird place with this movie because I *like* it, but the more Zack Snyder talks about it, the more I feel like my *reasons* for liking it are the opposite of why he expected people to like it
Batman Vibrates Superman. As George Takei would say, "Oh My!"
I mean... to be fair, Linkara. "X v Y" is commonly how court cases are titled. So the title pretty much implies that Batman is taking Supes to court to sue him XD
Frankly that sounds more interesting
I mEaN TOBEY FAAAAIIIRRREE
@@AquaLantern Tobey Faire sounds like the name of an Ace Attorney character.
Yay it’s finally here the Batman v Superman ultimate edition review this should be tons of fun
It's kind of sad how WB/AT&T is getting their Ass kick by MCU and they don't even own all of their characters. Imagine if the MCU had the rights to ALL of their characters from day one.
@@savagedarksider5934 sadly that’s highly accurate however one thing I will give the mcu because even though they didn’t had all there characters they at least had a plan and build up there universe organically with the characters they had and it actually worked, while wb/dc on the other hand yeah while they did had all of there characters they were trying to rush there universe to catch up to marvel which unfortunately didn’t work and blew up in there face literally. Which is sad because the dc universe is one of those universe that could be great for a cinematic universe but nope wb rushed it and now we have no idea what they are doing with this universe now.
@@TevyaSmolka I agree. One thing you left out was that WB was/ and still is kind of Embarrass to be Associate with Comic Book Flims.
@@savagedarksider5934 yeah that’s true and sadly wb and there stupidity are still doing this crap for a lot of there dc films, well okay that’s kind of not true because they did finally give us the justice league Snyder cut though then again that could’ve been more AT&T then wb themselves which makes sense. Now as for wb still being embarrassed about there superhero movies even now I can see that argument being legit.
@@TevyaSmolka I suggest you watch A couple of Videos made by Sam Reviews on DCEU. They're old but his points still stand. He go by the name Samuel Gavin.
I used to really like this movie. I had watched tons of reviews against it like how Batman kills people and that's bad. But I'd just remember the time Michael Keaton Batman strapped a bomb to a man and smirked. So stuff like that just really didn't bug me. But then I saw a clip I'd seen more than a few times. Superman smashes the Batmobile and says. "Next time they shine your light in the sky, don't go to it. The bat is dead, consider this mercy." And I was like. "Clark would never say that." And I don't know. I've seen that scene countless times but that particular time it just really rubbed me the wrong way.
Clark has said similar stuff before in cartoons and comics. Here, he’s just trying to scare Batman into retiring peacefully.
*peeks around the corner holding a copy of the “Batman & Superman: The Noah Da Ark Cut” script which instead has Superman simply picking up the Batmobile so he can talk with Batman peacefully*
If only I was allowed to make this movie…
The Keaton/Burton Batman is a great Golden Age Batman movie. During the Golden age Batman killed a lot of criminals... The [No Killing Rule] became hard coded later.
I like the idea of the opening too. It's nice seeing Bruce be a hero out of costume
"Also Baragon was there too"
*Insert video of Baragons suit actress making little roaring noises here*
its a sad time when people think that superman smiling is terrible.
Batman Vibrates Superman sounds like a porn comic
Batman Vomits Superman is just straight up Silver Age clickbait
The day I saw this movie was in the early afternoon and I ended up yawning when exiting said movie
I saw it in 3D at night, it was an awful experience
@@thatonea-hole I also watched the Flash x Supergirl crossover that same week which was WAY better
Back then I wasn't a comic book then I was maybe 14, But as I left the theatre I remember thinking I didn't like what I saw. And I wondered how these characters have become iconic this is what they were likely, After becoming a comic fan these past decade I've learn Zac Snyder was the last person they should have hired for DC Comics.
I saw it early opening day while wearing a Batfleck shirt, for some reason...
I also saw Suicide Squad in theaters, again for some reason.
I was upset and cried when Superman died and distraught because I never recovered from THAT jumpscare.
Fuck that movie.