Thank you! Someone gets it! So many comic book fans I know complain about the show being too silly, to which I respond, "You haven't read a pre-1980's DC comic before, have you?"
I think most people can agree the real love-letter to the silver-age of DC is titled "Batman: The Brave and the Bold." Batman's wearing his silver-age outfit, they give the show a sort of retro feel, there's a lot of silver-age characters spotlighted in it, etc.
vcom741 I'd say so. I've enjoyed just about every episode in the series so far. I think my favorite might be the one where it starts with Darkseid taking a space taxi... And yes it's as dumb and fun as it sounds
Worst of all is that everything Jean Loring did could be easily explained by later comic book events. She's supposed to become the third Eclipso (Spectre's enemy, an evil angel that can manipulate people into doing horrible things out of wrath and take them as hosts) so it could all be explained by just saying that Eclipso manipulated her into doing this whole plan without leaving a trace, and then take her as a new host.
I can add two more things that are bad with Identity Crisis. 1) It was what lead to ruining Zatanna as a character by staring her down the road as being the Justice League’s go to girl whenever they need to do some mind crime to someone. Including what happened to Cat woman. 2) Green Arrow’s argument falls apart. At the end of Identity Crisis we have Green Arrow making some speech to The Flash about why this incident is why they need to wear the mask and protect there identity. Not just to protect themselves but there loved ones too. But at the end of the day it wasn’t some supervillain like Dr Light, Deathstroke, Shadow thief, or Captain Boomerang that was the culprit for everything. It was the Ex-wife of one of the hero’s. There was no contingency for someone that was already associated with one of there own going rouge and going after the loved ones of other members. Except maybe never getting married and living lives of solitude forever.
The Deathstroke Lantern Ring thing could have been cool. If it showed that he and Kyle wills 'briefly' struggling for dominance over the thing with the Ring letting out a blast knocking them both back. Kyle still has it on and makes a comment along the lines of. "So that's the security lock." before getting up and back into the fight. There could even be a narration box saying. "Slade Wilson did have a strong will. But the Ring didn't choose him." Both look cool and Deathstroke doesn't appear overpowered.
@@fugitivehunter i kinda liked that It showed Deathstroke is not a push over but this is just way too much for deathstroke. I also liked they made a darker approach to the story
And it’s clear that Flash and Green Lantern were throwing the fight. That’s the only explanation for why they became completely braindead in that Slade fight.
It's not so much that the MCU movies are lighter, just more varied in tone. I mean on one end you've got Guardians of the Galaxy and on the other you have Winter Soldier. On one hand there's Spiderman Homecoming, on the other there's Infinity War. Thor Ragnarok vs WandaVision. And then there are the films that are more neutral in tone like Iron Man 1, Captain America The First Avenger, and Black Panther.
21:32 - I agree with Linkara's point but goddamn. That art though. It's Robin being embraced by the comforting darkness that is Batman. It couldn't have looked better than it did in that artwork, holy shit.
When I first read this, I was convinced Jean Loring's confession was a red herring. Because it's literally conflicting with so much evidence from the earlier parts, and a huge plot point was about people having their memories altered, I thought that Dr Light had was somehow gonna be revealed to have secretly recovered his memories before Sue's death, found a way to mess with Jean's mind, and set this whole thing in motion to cause pain for the heroes' loved ones: Tim's dad died, Sue died, Jean was left insane, Lois Lane was threatened. In the flash back, he even threatens to hurt the League's loved ones. It all feels like it was set up to have the bad guy win, Light gets away with it because everyone accepts Jean as the murderer. But they didn't? So, in the end, it's just real unsatisfying.
I mean we've also gotten a story about what happens if you mess with Superman's loved ones...not gonna lie Joker, that was not one of your brightest moments; though one can certainly argue that Joker has been intentionally pushing their buttons in a convoluted indirect insane way of committing SUICIDE, because in the end Joker always gets the last laugh.
@@GokuSS400 the injustice universe is it's own thing though, I don't really consider those characters to be the same interpretation as the standards. I mean, it doesn't paint superman in a good light to be one dead loved one away from becoming super-Hitler, but it's especially bad for wonder woman, who had none of superman's motivation for becoming a mass murdering despot, but does so with about twice the gusto.
@@swguygardner To play devil's advocate for Injustice Wondy and Supes being...Injustice Wondy and Supes. The second game does imply she's being influenced by the Anti-Life Equation. (Her pre-battle dialog with Darkseid is what I'm referring to) So it's slightly...slightly excusable if you assume she was like that from the beginning of that series. It's also worth pointing out that Injustice Supes doesn't initially go full tyrant until the end of year one, at least if we're counting the comics at least. And while it's still pretty silly for him to go that route for Superman in the main universe, Injustice Superman faced Lois' death, his parents being kidnapped by the government, and Darkseid invading earth in a single year.
The part where you talk about rape in this video was very important for my formation back in the day. I remember when it came out, it was the first time I've seen it being adressed this way. After your explanation here, I started seeing rape in media with other eyes and got to despise people who use it lazyly as a plot device like that. And actually give it the importance and weight it needs to have, not only in media, but in my life, in discussions. Yeah, you helped a dumb teenager understand some really important thing years ago. Again, you're awesome.
My experience with Dr. Light before this video was the Teen Titans show, where Raven was going evil and dragged him into her cloak where he left curled up, beaten and bruise, and again later where Raven acted like she was going to do it again before he turned himself in. Needless to say, this was quite a whiplash for me.
@@jamieterrill The sad thing is that Dr Light *remained* a joke. Only this time the joke was that he's a card-carrying serial rapist. Small wonder he's one of few mainstay supervillains the Spectre actually got to off
@@redjirachi1 I love _Final Crisis: Revelations,_ (the comic where Spectre kills Doctor Light, for anyone wondering about the context), particularly the introspection about the roles of the Spectre and the Spectre's host, and the introduction of a counterpoint to the Spectre in the form of the Radiant. Spoilers ahead: Although, the whole "Vandal Savage is Cain" thing was confusing. Was it just the reality warping powers of the Spear that when thrust into Vandal Savage, created a dissociative identity as Cain, or did the Spear actually awaken an alternate personality?
Wait...Batman has photogenic memories, meaning his mind is able to rememeber almost everything he's ever seen or done in his life. Wiping 10 minutes of Batman's mind would cause him to question things, since he would find it wierd that he rememebers going into the JLA Watchtower, then being in a completly diffrent place at a diffrent time, making himself ask what happened
1:30 DC has actually done this for a really long time. I saw a Stan Lee interview where he talked about how (around the silver age I believe), many Marvel and DC authors/writers/etc knew each other and saw themselves as friends or colleagues. Apparently the DC/Marvel relationship was more of a friendly rivalry than a hatred as it's generally seen. DC was thinking that their sales lagged behind Marvel because their covers were more eye-catching. They thought "Marvel uses a lot of red on the covers, let's try that" or "Marvel's covers use dialogue, let's put dialogue on all of ours". Marvel, in response, would then do the opposite, like using as little red as possible or having no speech bubbles and still outsold them. Proving that Marvel knew how to write interesting characters and good plots instead of having to rely on marketing tactics.
Elongated man in blackest with the atom about that: Atom: It was an accident black lantern elongated man: She brought a flame-thrower "just in case"......tdfw
I hate the whole idea that, darker makes something more mature. It's shallow, and is obviously the result of someone trying to act mature, but in reality has no idea what real maturity is. A story can be light, or have comedy, and still tackle complex issues. Avatar the last Airbender is the pinnacle of this. It's why I'm not a fan of DC's coming movie universe. Because it look like like it's going full steam with that idea. Making everything 90's level dark and gritty to try and pass it off as mature.
shadowspider9 You do know know Avatar: the Last Airbender and the Legend of Korra both a have mix of comedy and drama, right? I think you forgot to say serious in the third sentence.
So with brainwashing Dr Light, why not make him heroic instead of an incompetent? Don't get me wrong, they're both morally outrageous but the former is also productive
real reason: it's a retcon they didn't give that much thought on aside explain where the vile from the villain went comic possible reason: Would kind of suck for dibny and plastic man that they have to work with him brainwashed or not and as mean spirited as it sounds I can see a few heroes who wants to see the guy get punched in the face. I also assume they can't turn him into a normal guy since it's too much part of his identity
I haven't read it, but I read the mind-wipe was a side effect. However, it's that it's later retconned that they DID brainwash Flash rogues and Catwoman to be more heroic, but not the Joker, cause murdering people for shits and giggles is one thing, but how can they just let guys like Trickster run around STEALING stuff!!
***** ... That's the explanation they went it? Cause man, that's lame. Either way, Ra's Al Ghul, Vandal Savage, Lex Luthor and such? Nah. Fucking Prankster tho? As someone pointed out, this is like US president authorizing nuclear strike to get rid of Westboro Babtist Church.
Markus Criticus well that's usually the explanation for when guy like the specter or anyone doesn't kill or stop Joker despite their power, as for the other I always figured it was because it's too close to their identity (hence why Light was still a criminal despite brainwashing) like you can try making them more heroic but they needed to have some standard first (lot of the flash rogue gallery are somewhat decent). I mean heroes fights off brainwashing all the time why villains would be different?
Firestorm blowing up at all is a huge problem. He's called "The Nuclear Man" because he can re-arrange atoms, not because he's a nuclear reactor. The guy who blows up if you stab him is Captain Atom, not Firestorm!
@@RenaldyCalixteyou could argue that since Firestorm was caught off guard, he couldn't become intangible fast enough. The fact he still went Ka-Boom is dumb though! I've seen him in situations where he's forced to discharge lots of energy similar to a nuke, but it was never a "poke a hole in me and I die"!
Now I want them to reintroduce Ronnie from Future's End and make HIM the new Monarch. Like how DC finally turned Captain Atom into Monarch in Battle For Bludhaven. After the plan to do so in Armageddon 2001 didn't happen thanks to a leak in regard to people figuring who it could be due to the comics that were slated to end. (Oh. Just re-watched the 500th episode and Ronnie DID go kaboom. OK)
@@masedaace5473This reminded me of Ultimate Nightcrawler's demise in Ultimatum. People asked how it happened since he could teleport. But someone else pointed out the limitation of it. And that he could've been caught off guard and didn't have enough time to concentrate and teleport away (Can't believe I'm playing demons advocate in regard to a hero demise in a different bad event)
I like how Blackest Night makes fun of Jean's motivation. With her Black Lantern form taunting Ray, saying obviously it was premeditated. In a book that was pretty grim (though I still loved it) that made me burst out laughing.
***** Yep! I wonder where it falls in crossover/event lists? I know he prefers the JLA/Titans as his number one, but I wonder if Blackest Night is in his top 5?
Honestly I think that it is the rape of Sue side plot line that makes me not want to read this. I live by the philosophy that unless it is 100% needed and a major part of the story, rape should be avoided in the story you are telling. Also when it is in your story it should be done in a respectful manner, not something to make your story edgy. Like give a lot of attention to the victim going through the trauma they will have because rape is a horrifying experience, don’t ignore what the victim will go through in the aftermath of the rape. It is pretty obvious that this is only used to be edgy and shocking for the sake of being edgy and shocking.
I actually did wait till I read Identity Crisis to watch this video (just bought and read it today actually), and... Jesus H. Christ! This thing was dark, and it did not let up. There were many points where reading through this book was a bit of a strain with how twisted it got. But what really drove it home for me were two things in the book; the super heroes (particularly Green Arrow) and the stuff with Sue Dibny. There are no repercussions for all the mind wiping the superheroes did, and the fact they did it to Batman, a big namer and their friend/teammate, really pissed me off. My only solace was that stories after Identity Crisis rightfully call them out for this. And as for Sue... Good God. Her death alone would have been sad and tragic, but to show her be RAPED by Dr. Light felt despicable, and as for her death scene... When they showed the pregnancy test... And it was positive... I was speechless. I almost put the book down right then and there. That moment alone, combined with the recent info released by one of the creators, just showed me that all they wanted for this story was be as dark as they could get. And I wasn’t proven wrong. As such, nice video Linkara. While there were a couple points I would disagree with you on, overall, I think you covered what was wrong with this book very well.
"For a crazy person, she seemed pretty functional in her actions" and the Arkham thing: Law & The Multiverse has pointed out multiple times that there is a major difference between MEDICAL insanity and LEGAL insanity. One that most people and DC obviously do NOT get. Take the Joker, DC's textbook example of "not guilty by means of insanity". There is absolutely no question that the Joker is loco in the coco. However, the definition of legal insanity, I.e. admissible as a plea, requires that the defendant NOT UNDERSTAND THAT THE ACTIONS WERE WRONG, or WHY they were wrong. The Joker obviously does. Loring seems to me to straddle the line. She knows she murdered Sue-she knows the THAT-IS-WRONG part-but doesn't seem to grasp the WHY-IS-WRONG part, since a part of her plan that Linkara skips is "make them appreciate what they have". The murders force the heroes to draw closer to their loved ones, so she doesn't get why that's bad.
One of my favorite moments in JLA Vol. 3 was that bit in the Injustice Gang storyline where a blond guy with a giant, bushy beard shows up to yell at the heroes about collateral damage and the importance of the little people. The best part? He's not Green Arrow (who was dead at the time). Not only does it make for a pretty good throwaway moment in-story, but the creators flat-out said that they wanted to imply that the reason no one could figure out GA's secret identity was that there were several loud-mouthed leftist crusaders with blond Robin Hood beards wandering around Seattle. (See, DC? Comedy can be interesting and clever, too.)
I let out an actual sigh of relief when he mentioned Jack Drake. His murder, unless I'm terribly mistaken, was totally unnecessary to the greater murder and investigation plot. Edit: OK, maybe it was tangentially related, but he still didn't have to die.
Why has Arkham Asylum not been permanently shut down and replaced by a far better institution with top security advancements and trustworthy and competent staff that aren't easily tricked? Oh yea, gotta have an excuse for Batman's villains constantly escaping.
There multiple reasons varies from author to continuity, Bruce try to shut down Arkham and built a better place but something something mob something something villain.
Any story that uses a minor character's rape as a prop for an unrelated character to mine drama out of is a story that is poorly written. I'm sorry but if you're going to do something as disgusting as retcon Sue as the victim of a brutal rape in the same story she's killed off in just to give Batman trust issues, you are a fucking terrible writer. The aftermath of what Sue and Ralph felt after that is not explored it can never be explored because Sue was killed and because it's a retcon. I try to forget this story exists because it is a story trying way too hard to be edgy and failing at even providing entertainment.
"I try to forget this story exists because it is a story trying way too hard to be edgy and failing at even providing entertainment. " Casually summing up the majority of the DC Universe Live Action movies in a very nice succinct sentence.
If I was to be honest, I think it's a really compelling story. I'm just can't help but to hate it for how they treated Sue Dibny. She was reduced into a prop.
If I wrote a love letter to the silver age it'd have shit like the Joker literally pulling a giant mech out of his ass to terrorize Gotham, Dinosaur riding space pirates, and Green Arrow firing arrows loaded with jars of chili as their heads
+Ferris Welker If you want to read a truly great love letter to the silver age read "Justice" by Jim Krueger and Alex Ross. A truly epic story with a huge ensemble of heroes and villains and beautifully drawn to boot.
I hate how so often it seems like they need to make whoever Batman's sidekick is be just like him. Tim Drake father dying is probably the best example of that. But the one that angered me the most is Dick Grayson. And how they were like yeah him and Starfire can never work out why because Dick Grayson is also a playboy just like Bruce is. So at the end of it they wrote it as Dick was more so just always sexually lusting after Starfire instead of ever truly being in love with her. Which my god did that drive me insane. Like really nothing I had read up to that point lead me to believe anything other than that Dick truly loved Starfire and that if he was ever gonna settle down with anybody it would be her. But nah just erase all those facts because if we write it as Dick never truly loved her that much then that must be the case damn all the proof you have seen in the past that contradicts that. As none of that matters anymore. It made my wish that Kingdom Come was actually the real DC universe as at least in that timeline Dick and Starfire had a daughter together.
One of the best uses of rape in a story I've read was in issue #118 of Invincible. Not only was it a man who was raped instead of a woman, but the story it took time to explore the psychology of the experience. Invincible was acting weird whenever his wife tried to make sexual contact with him and eventually he revealed that he was raped. He then said that the most traumatizing thing about it was that he could have done something yet didn't, which left him wondering whether he was subconsciously enjoying it.
Zeke Payne Ha! Good one. :P But now that that's out there, what I mean is that, like Linkara said, rape is usually interpreted as something that happens to women, yet the fact that Robert Kirkman wrote about a man being raped shows he's intelligent enough to realize rape happens to all genders.
Pretty much every defense of the Jean Loring reveal I've seen pretty much just ends up being "well she's crazy, so OF COURSE what she's doing doesn't make any sense". Did she go to the Doctor Doom school of convoluted plans? What made her think that just because Sue was attacked/killed that Ray would immediately get back with her? I don't know if this was the intention beforehand, but it really just seemed like a super lackluster way to get Jean into a position where she could become Eclipso.
I just realized this and now I'm laughing at just how stupid that "clever" twist was. Linkara was right. It is amazing that comic writers not only expect us to believe this kind of sheer level of dumb, but that they keep on coming up with it.
The worst part is that it worked. The "revelation part", the _cui bono_ part is among the worst resolusions ever "who benefits? the families of the other heroes". WHAT?
+LRM23936 Justice by Alex Ross. I would gladly sell ten years off of my life span to see that comic done well live action. It would be a miniscule price to pay for that privilege.
*Spoilers for Secret Six below!!!* Ralph and Sue Dibny are alive in the New 52, and as far as I can tell, Sue was never raped in the new universe by Doctor Light. Doesn't make up for this, mind you, just happy these two are able to be happy in the new universe.
I'm...Conflicted now. What happened with the Dibny's was just gross, crass, and fucking sleazy and greasy as hell and the general darkening that came from it was terrible(unrelated, but breaking up Stargirl and Captain Marvel/Billy Batson is another huge fucking sore point) so this great GREATLY pleases me. But damn near everything in this new universe has been complete ass in some way.
What happens? Feel free to spoil it man it's all good. Also, as good as things seem(YAY, Wally's back!!!), I find it incredibly sad that DC needed to do TWO Crisis Crossover events(Convergence and now this one) to un-fuck up their universe. Like, if they had just not gone this direction they'd have saved themselves a LOT of problems.
Read it. My throat damn near collapsed when Linda didn't recognize Wally since I'm reading their arcs right now. Also shed manly tears with the scene between Wally and Barry. I'm FINALLY invested in this new universe(though I do want to read Batgirl and a few other things).
doomrider7 As disappointed as I was that Stephanie Brown was no longer Batgirl, the New 52 Batgirl book IS worth reading, although the Batgirl Wanted arc was a little aggravating to me personally.
Fun Fact, you can't be declared legally insane, even if you have a mental disorder of some kind, if you can be shown to be able to think rationally and still be able to recognize what the law is. The definition of legal insanity is super specific. The fact that her plan has a certain amount of logic to it - even if it is poorly planned - and that she knew she was breaking the law and made a willful choice to disregard it means she's not legally insane. This is especially true if they imply that she was capable of manipulating the murder scene to cover up her crime.
In all honesty it surprises me when ever a company that KNOWS how to do serious materiel, doesn't end up doing it properly. There's no reason to kill off characters "just cuz" Hell, sometimes you don't even need to kill anyone! A character death only means something if it has a lasting affect, and felt like it meant something. Some of them dying meant nothing, and the affects it did have weren't satisfying. Plus not every super hero needs SOMEONE TO DIE in their family! Tim drake's dad could've been around, but nope they killed him. Why? Just cause the other robin's lost their birth parents. That's it.
Dylan Trent and IF a writer really does plan on killing off a hero, I'm going to quote Linkara here "Make it their crowning moment of awesome" make it the epic Heroic Sacrifice where it has meaning and is felt by the other heroes and motivates them to keep being heroes. As for kid heroes, having their parents alive and well and ACCEPTING of the fact that their kid is a superhero can provide for great support. They don;t have to hide the fact that their crime fighting and when the strain gets to them, they can turn to their mom and dad for support.
Chocobo0Scribe Yeah that's another thing; not every superhero needs to do the same things as others. Sure maybe a hero can have a secret identity from the public; but not from his loved ones since well.. it's perfectly LOGICAL they should know. Hell some heroes like Ironman do fine not HAVING a secret identity, even if some ill affects do happen with it. Plus i always dislike how heroes never get a LASTING relationship, or even get married anymore. Because some how "there's no story there." when in fact it has MUCH more potential than what is usually done.
Dylan Trent Speaking of that...of someone told me they wanted to do a run of Spiderman with Spiderman and Spidergirl as a father/daughter crime fighting team I'd say "That sounds awesome! Do it!" Heck you could have a family of superheroes and get some nice stories out of it as their crime fighting life starts to overlap with their day to day life.
Chocobo0Scribe Okay; i would literally buy physical copies of that comic. That is freaking awesome! Spidey is like my all time favorite superhero so that'd be awesome
Dylan Trent And considering that Spidergirl had a huge fanbase, imagine how successful that comic could be. And for the folks at Marvel who think that an adult Peter Parker can't be relatable...haven't you heard of "Being a Kid at Heart"?
One of the things that annoyed me about this and what followed is how Green Arrow so vigorously defended the mind wipes. First, he voted against it. I can MAYBE see him agreeing to go along with the majority, but there's no way he'd really ever approve of it. He'd more likely have quit the League in the immediate aftermath, while still keep silent out of obligation to his friends. It might even explain his time in Seattle.
BizarroPhoenix Having the characters face an internal dilemma that makes them question their own morality? Pfft! How stupid! Everyone knows that the only way to create conflict in a story is by killing off a character in a brutal fashion or having them be sexually assaulted.
Tyler Shewchuk This same storyline could have been carried out (and executed with a bit more finesse and sensitivity perhaps) by someone who's much more capable of committing a rape, someone more disturbed like Scarecrow or the Joker (even though they don't seem to show any interest in sex as far as I've seen) or any supervillain that more likely has the more violent and depraved crimes on their rap sheet, but Dr. Light??
***** ***** But does he? We never get any real confirmation that he does (that I've seen) because when Harley tries to "get his clown car started" so to speak, he always pushes her away in favour of something job-related. Wearing nothing but her headpiece and a red negligee? Rejected: gotta plan to kill Batman. Covered in pie cream from head to toe with a debatable lack of any clothing underneath? Rejected: too busy finding some bozo stealing my clown-shtick. While I'm not outright denying he doesn't take an interest now and again, I haven't seen any damning evidence as of yet.
Meltzer meant a "love letter to the Silver Age" by way of "showing that those so called innocent stories were darker than we thought." And this is true because mind-wiping a villain was so casual, it was commonplace. Batman and Superman would hypnotize themselves after time travel stories. But this is no justification for the rape scene which would never have happened.
I find it ironic now that both heroes in crisis and identity Crisis have the same problems because they both involved murder mysteries stories that make no sense what’s so ever and have good artwork but none of the clues are lining up but that’s just my opinion.
I kinda have to wonder... why didn't they just say Sue Dibny was cooking when Jean attacked her? That way you could have Jean running away in a panic as she realizes what she's done, whatever was cooking starts burning after a while, and the apartment goes up in smoke. Or if you MUST have Jean burning Sue's corpse, have her deliberately cause the food to burn, in order to make it seem like it was all an accident. Makes more sense than her literally packing heat, in this case a flamethrower...
I'm not a big DC reader but I was really into Chuck Dixon's Robin comics when I was a teenager. In a way Tim Drake was my "Spider-Man" I guess, the teenage hero I related to. Part of the reason I liked him is because he was a very Marvel-like character with a lot of normal human concerns that moonlighting as a super hero got in the way of. It's kind of ironic that the attempt by Identity Crisis to be more like Marvel just made Tim Drake more like the Batman instead. On Firestorm I really hate when writers think they need to kill off a character before they can pass the mantle down to someone else. Have them get de-powered or have them retire or whatever. At least then you don't have to jump through as many hoops when to inevitably bring them back. Killing a character meaninglessly is not dramatic. It adds nothing to a story and just complicates things later.
I really hate this death because like with the death of the 2nd Atom Ryan Choi the death of the OG Firestorm was an insulting death only put in for shock.
Hahaha! The bumper joke at the end just reminded me. In one issue of the comic, Oliver Queen's secret identity is exposed--- and nobody cares... because they didn't realize that it was supposed to be a secret BECAUSE of the beard. XD
The OG Firestorm's death pisses me off for the same reasons as Ryan Choi's death mostly because it was a shock death that was insulting and served no real purpose.
Good news! Identity Crisis has been entirely wiped from canon! (A couple years ago, in Justice League of America #17, actually, but I'm just finding out about it). And thank Rao, too, since Ray Palmer deserved to *finally* get a happy ending.
Banchoking I may be looking at things the wrong way, but I feel that some of the folks at DC (particularly the top-brass types) are a bit embarrassed that they're making superhero stuff, so they try to crowbar in a load of angst to try to make it seem more serious.
Some people might say it's hypocritical that Linkara is against dark retcons when he did one regarding the Magic Gun... but personally I think it's actually kind of heartwarming. Throughout this whole show, Linkara has always had Margaret on his side.
The magic gun was played for two jokes before its backstory IIRC. First it was called a "suicide pistol" IIRC. In otherwords textbook black comedy. The end of the Magic Gun's backstory arc took that same idea and took it seriously, taking what was previously a "funny" gag and looking at what it actually takes to force someone that far into a corner. Given that, there needs to be something that provides that dramatic context to begin with, and the horror story behind the gun served that well. The other was "It's magic, I don't need to explain it." And actually explaining it actually enhances that joke, especially given that Linkara runs a little review show, and yet puts more thought into plot elements than Quesada did. The Miller Time watch is just used for a simple gag on how often Linkara goes back to reviewing Miller comics. While you could give it a dark retcon, it would only serve to make that gag really awkward in hindsight.
That's a really good way of looking at Marvel and DC's lineups and I'm mad I never thought of it before. Marvel's heroes are the teens with attitude, DC's are the mythological beings brought to life. One saves the day and then takes you to lunch, the other saves the day and makes sure you're staying in school.
35:17 Q: "So as a murder mystery, this is not a story that ends with smiles, is it?" *What?* B: *"Is there ever a happy ending at the end of a murder mystery?"* *WHAT???* Murder Mysteries have had happy endings since the very beginning. Do you know why? Because a murder mystery almost always ends up w/ the killer being revealed, caught, and brought to justice. The happy ending is that good triumps over evil. If that wasn't the case then Murder Mysteries wouldn't be so popular b/c there's no appeal in being drawn into a mystery and following it closely only for the killer to never be revealed or get caught. It'd make people feel like they wasted their time b/c it WOULD be a waste of their time.
The thing with Ray Palmer's wife wanting him back is doubly stupid because I think SHE was the one who pushed the divorce in the first place because she was seeing another man. If she really wanted him back all she had to do was say so. He never wanted to split up in the first place. I could see the mind wipe of Dr. Light being a good excuse for his personality change but the rape part was not required. His infiltrating their base and just attacking Sue would've been plenty. Also, as Linkara pointed out, the Batman thing was dumb as he could've just found out in the story and distrust them from then on. I can give them Arkham as Ivy Town might be too small to have it's own mental hospital but I have to take away points since she's just a person and ANY mental hospital would do. It also sounds like a lot of the side stuff was just put in it because it needed to happen somewhere and they couldn't figure out where else to put it. To me killing off Firestorm to introduce a new one should've been done in the first few issues of the new Firestorm title. Hell, they could've kept who killed him a secret and made the new Firestorm finding out the whole first storyline. As for Boomerang I would guess it was to make way for the son to take over but that story SHOULD'VE happened in the the, then, current "Flash" series.
Another issue with Firestorm's death, not much actually happens when you puncture a nuclear reactor. A fission reactor is a big pile of solid matter, like uranium or plutonium pellets, graphite bricks, movable cadmium control rods or similar neutron-absorbing material to moderate the reactor's speed. You can't really puncture a fission reactor. You can only puncture a container, like a balloon, or a gas tank. The effect is nothing more than to let out what is contained. A punctured object is simply no longer useful as a container. Commercial fission reactors are immersed in a heat transfer medium. Puncturing the cooling vessel could produce a rapid loss of cooling medium. This could lead to a meltdown if the reactor's dampening mechanisms also broke at the same time. An implosion-type fusion reactor also cannot be punctured for the same reason as a fission reactor, it's a solid-state apparatus. You can, however, puncture a plasma fusion reactor. The result is a rapid quenching of the reaction. There might be mechanical effects, too, because the puncture would also let out some hot dense gas and maybe collapse the magnetic field, and a decent amount of energy would drop into the local environment. But it would only wreck the plasma vessel and the room it's in. In none of these cases would you actually get a nuclear explosion. At worse, there'd be an explosion of radioactive material, but it wouldn't be a big Fat Man-level explosion. web.archive.org/web/20120206063519/www.whiterose.org/howlingcurmudgeons/archives/006974.html The original web page for this article is dead so the Wayback Machine was the only way for me to get it. The author of this article is a physicist, unlike the superheroes involved in that scene and apparently, Brad Meltzer, too.
I can somewhat understand Jean not directly going to Atom to reconcile because most people who regret breaking up don’t want to “crawl back.” But her method of getting Atom’s attention is so dumb and “she’s crazy” is such a lazy excuse
As a fan of forensics, yeah, the "mystery" falls apart really quickly. A woman is found burned in her apartment. Burning makes it hard to tell an accurate time of death. Which means phone records and internet records are the first thing that would be looked at, since a dead person can't check their emails or chat with friends (unless there is a Ouija board attached to a phone or something). Given that Jean Loring was the last person on the phone with the victim, it would not have even gone to casing offenders or people with motive. Even if Loring torched the place for evidence, the torching itself leaves evidence, as many gasoline-based propellents have chemical tracers to allow for police to track gasoline back to its delivery truck. They would identify what gas stations were distributing the specific gasoline used for the flamethrower, and a detective would take photos of primary suspects to the cashiers and attendants. As soon as one of them recognized Loring, or Loring showed up on tape, she'd have a detail on her 24/7. No hits, no faked suicide. A search warrant would be issued for her house and if there was evidence of gasoline on any clothes, or even in the shower drain, or evidence of clothes being burned, Loring would get the full investigative treatment. That's just how badass we mere mortals are. No fancy superpowers, just an investigation policy that has been refined over the thousands of years of people murdering each other.
It's like there's two major stories here that got shoved together. Sue's murder kinda/sorta kicked off the mind wipe thing, but as shown. Dr. Light probably would have remembered eventually, anyway. We later learned that Batman HAD already recovered his memories. It also ruined Ralph and Sue because they could never again be Ralph and Sue, even with a resurrection. This changes who they are/were on such a fundamental level and they're not even the focus of this story or much of what came after. Reading an old JLE/JLI issue with them working alongside the female Dr. Light feels wrong. At least 52 made an attempt to fix it without hitting the reset, but it's sill a loss because they'll never be quite that fun again. I'll always point to "What's So Funny About Truth, Justice, & The American Way" as a truly adult comic that addresses "dark heroes". It gives a glimpse at how frightening Superman would be if he truly cut loose and reaffirms that his code of honor and conduct are correct. Identity Crisis is just another example of what I the call dark=asshole method of lazy writing.
I appreciate what What's So Funny was trying to do for superhero comics...I just hate that story. Manchester Black feels like a plot device to explain why dark anti heroes are bad instead of a fully fleshed out character. He also is too easily outsmarted by Superman. But I appreciate the story criticizing comic editors and publishers obsession with edgy characters.
I read the trade of this when it came out, during that time period about 3 to 4 years DC was getting "SERIOUS FICTION AUTHORS" to write some books, Meltzer was one of those as was Jodi Picoult who did Wonder Woman Love and Murder. I was working in a book store at the time and was thinking "why are you having these folks write it? Even if they are fans they're not professionals in this media"
i love deathstrook but god that pissed me off, i mean he overwilled a GL, ya green arrow ya i can see that but the over will and knowing were the flash is going to be...don't care that's just dumb, oh and that part about him saying he has "90%" of his brain working....even in 04 that was just dumb
TheMetalwolf77777 And this is the same guy who has so often got his ass beat by Nightwing you can see his knuckle imprints. Hell, he was once overwhelmed by Beast Boy...BEAST...BOY...
TheMetalwolf77777 He did. Deathstroke was hired to kill a woman Dick needed alive to testify. However since Deathstroke's only motivation for the kill was the contract Dick was able to stop him by paying one cent more then what the original guy payed for the kill. It was actually kind of clever actually.
laz kar I know he told them off in an issue of Young Justice when the Justice League went all super parent. Basically telling them, stop helicopter parenting. It's also usually him or Alfred who chews Bruce out when Bruce makes a huge mistakes that ends up hurting people in the end.
laz kar It's why Dick is my favorite hero honestly. He's got the Batman skill set, but he's more open with his emotions and better at interacting with people then Bruce.
Just read it. It's a compelling story and it would be even more if not written poorly. Certain parts are interesting, but the other ones are either shock value or bad writing. A few examples: Sue Dibny as a plot prop, gratuitous deaths (i.e. Tim Drake's father), subplots that are nothing to do with the main plot (i.e. Boomerang's son), Jean Loring' s nonsensical revelation, certain mature topics tackled in not a sensitive way (only to be edgy) and of course, some badly executed retcons. Excellent case, Linkara, excellent case.
Ok, I’m not against deathstroke messing with the lantern ring like that, but make him WORK for it. It takes absolutely all his concentration and he can only do it for a few seconds.
Casually using rape as a plot device: They might just as well have the writer kick the victim down the stairs after she served her purpose as he goes "Duurhnhur hur we mature 8D"
One of my lest favorite comics. I totally agree with the problems. From unnecessary rape that became a plot that didn't matter to killing Sue Dibney (who I always liked more then her husband) to stupidly making Atom's ex wife the villain. Which still years later makes no sense. Almost feels like they had no other idea as who should have been murderer. Oh hell they wasted Jean in time afterwords before killing her. Just stupid. Not mention they didn't just mind wiped Batman and Dr Light. They went after other villains like Catwoman and Piped Piper. Which ruined decades of character developmental and slap Mark Waid's run on flash. Firestorm was just killed so they can replace him with a new one and he was character that was well liked. Had long run of comics in 80s and they finally brought him back prop just few years later kill him. They seemingly killed Ted Kord just so they can introduce that stupid one Infinite Crisis. At least Teds death meant something.
+SuperMutant2099 Ted's death was actually well done and Jaime Reyes does work well as Blue Beetle. But assassinating Max Lord's character by having him be the guy that killed him was just fucking stupid along with everything else you listed.
The only reason to drive characters apart is to bring them back together in a triumphant way, except dc is not that smart. In either comic form or their screened material.
And honestly I found great comedy stories far more mature dark and realistic then all these bad attempts to try to be that. As linkara stated it's like these writers only know how to make angst and nothing more than that. And if that's the case they really need to be forced out of their comfort zone because sooner or later they're going to be forced out of it!
The reason Drop Dead Fred is my favorite movie, aside from Rik Mayall's fantastic performance as the title character, is the way they handle Elizabeth's issues. The film treats Elizabeth's issues seriously, and is more about Elizabeth getting over the abuse of her overbearing mother and her dickish ex-husband than Drop Dead Fred's antics. The reason I brought this up is to show how you don't have to be dark and gritty in order to be mature. You can tackle difficult subjects, and tell an interesting story, while still being enjoyable. Identity Crisis is not like Drop Dead Fred. It's dark, disgusting, ugly, and not Mature in the slightest. Still better than ASBAR, though.
This shift is busier than usual and I'm tired, so I'll keep this comment brief for now, but I just wanted to say that I agree with you say here. Though I admire your neutral expressions in this video, I have to say I HATE, HATE *HATE* this comic. The horrible things done to Sue and Ralph, the shear exploitation of women's suffering, the moronic "mystery" structure, KILLING FIRESTORM, killing Captain Boomerang (my favorite Flash villain), killing Jack Drake, super-exagerated-maxi-extreme-ultra Deathstoke (something that stayed with the character for years after this)... so much to hate. I do, however, agree with your points on its strengths as well. The art is good, I do enjoy seeing the whole superhero community come together, I like the character of Owen Mercer (wish they'd had him become a hero) and I particularly love the exchange between Firehawk and Green Arrow towards the beginning. It had good character moments, I suppose. Even making Jean Loring a villain wasn't the worst thing: she had already had two bouts of insanity (admittedly, caused by aliens) in the 60's and 70's, and her cheating on Ray in the mid-80's really tarnished her character. I think there could have been a genuinely good character evolution here if it focused more on her mental illness (in a serious way), how that doesn't excuse being a crappy person, how it affects others, and how sometimes it's best to move on (I'm speaking as a medical professional whose family has also dealt with real-life mental illnesses). There could have been a lot of competent thought and analysis done on relationships and how superheroes affect families. But whatever, that's something somebody else will eventually be able to explore well. Hopefully. As far as the mindwiping goes, that incident with the Secret Society was not the first time it was hinted at, or outright shown, in the Pre-Crisis continuity. In Action Comics #247, Superman hypnotized an elderly criminal couple who had discovered his secret identity by impersonating the Kents (long story). I think the most egregious example, however, is from Earth-148. In World's Finest Comics #148, Superman and Batman visit a world where Lex Luthor and Clayface are great superheroes, and Batman and Superman are supervillains. Batman and Superman can't abide by this, so not only do they help defeat their villainous counterparts, but also "rewrite" their minds to make them heroes, feeling they had a right to that since they were technically the same person. That story has not sat well with since that day, and I actually think it's kind of hilarious that Silver Age, Pre-Crisis Batman was perfectly alright with that, wheras Post-Crisis Batman was absolutely against the idea. I grew up in the Silver Age, love the Bronze Age and will always prefer Pre to Post Crisis. But I readily admit there were many stories and ideas that were better left to the passage of time. However, as somebody who is from and loves the era this comic claims to be a tribute to, I can absolutely say this story sucks. It fails in any way to capture the spirit of those comics, for good or bad, and just makes all the worse for it's unseemly commentary on issues as sensitive as bodily exploitation and traumatic violation of autonomy (I'm sorry, I have no idea what the TH-cam rules are for the r-word in comments), or mental illness. It is a depressing, albeit beautifully illustrated story that I personally think would have served better was an Elseworlds story, or just a blip. At least, like you always said, Lewis, good writers can tell good stories from bad ones. Many writers were able to make good stories from these events, so in the end, that's the best possible commentary it gives about personal trauma: life can always go on if you let it. I guess I had more time than I thought for this comment. Thank you once again for your patience and inciteful commentary!
That panel you keep showing of the Justice League all posed and smiling reminds me of one other specific, and rather well known, comic where a similar picture of better times is used ironically in a similar manner. In other words, Identity Crisis thinks it is the Watchmen, doesn't it?
Yes sir. They got characters dying, heroes mistrusting each other, rape, and a mystery about a superhero who gets killed where the killer stages an attack on himself to fool everyone.
Deathstroke disabling Kyle's ring via his own will has precedence: Aquaman did the same thing when the Brain stole Hal Jordon's arm (long story) to use his ring way back in _JLA: Year One_ by Mark Waid. Great story. A+ material.
Depends on the writer. During the _JLA Foreign Bodies_ one-shot where the Kobra Cult switches all the brains of the League members around and Steel can't use Kyle's ring because he said there were safeguards installed. The only way they were able to workaround this was by using the J'onn J'onnz telepathy to create a link so Steel could use the ring. Like I said, depends on the writer so that's why I'm a bit easier on mistakes.
Firestorm's death made me cry. This entire BOOK made me cry. I loved it, but it also taught me to hate Fridging characters more than ever, like, this was the LAST time it had impact. This book taught me more about fridging than the ACTUAL FRIDGE DEATH COMIC!
In high school, as part of a reading class we read "The Kite Runner." _That_ book portrayed rape in a very mature and respectable way. It's a plot point, it shows how it affected everyone, _including_ the victim, and it didn't come _completely_ out of nowhere. It wasn't used for shock, to be "edgy," nor be dark and gritty for the sake of being dark and gritty. Keep in mind, I read this in _high school,_ and yet I _still_ see stories that use rape poorly despite being for adults! Heck, my classmate's story that I read in Writing Fiction weeks ago was more respectable to the topic than this!
I hear the new Heroes in Crisis story is being really grim dark too. It seems like if you see the word “Crisis” in a DC crossover series, you should stay away.
Two things One: if want something that is an actual love letter to the silver age with DC characters, go watch Batman: the Brave and the Bold. Two: if you want an actually better DC Comics murder mystery story that is 100 times better than Identity Crisis, and that the true murderer is not an idiot who just wants to get back together with someone by a murder just for the sake of the story being a dark and depressing story, go read Batman: Long Halloween.
Okay having re-read Identity Crisis the only way I can see for Jean to have been able to pull all this off is if Ray Palmer knew what she was planning to do, confronted her, and that's what led to Sue's death, and he was trying to cover it up, until he finally knew she'd lost her mind, and was guilt ridden over the role he played hence why he fled into the Multiverse
It's things like Identity Crisis wiping Batman's mind that make me wonder why they were all so uppity about Tower of Babel? I know Identiy Crisis was released after Tower of Babel, but as said in the video, retcons put past stories in a whole new light.
Because one was set on fire why the other one just got a short amnesia? Also even more contrasting the heroes brainwash people wasn't leaked unlike the here how to incapacitate and kill leaguers
Okay, now whenever I watch a Millar Time episode of Atop the Fourth Wall, I think of a little 13 year old Linkara on Christmas morning opening his presents and getting an awesome pocket watch. Yay for good retcons!!! (Even though that was an actual thing that happened.)
Confession time, for anyone willing to read it. I have a series that I make on DeviantArt. Nothing special, and mostly just knock-offs of what have already been done before. However, in January 2017, I made a short story of my main protagonist (a female named Athena) being sexually assaulted by a female super villain. What was the purpose? I wanted to show that my protagonist suffers trauma from that, since a backstory I made for her involves being raped as a child, which inadvertently awoke her powers and she slaughtered her rapist. In the story in question, Athena suffers trauma by becoming a sadistic vigilante and either maiming or slaughtering rapists and other criminals, and ultimately is on the verge of murdering her rapist after a brutal beating. that is until her son (male genetic clone) interferes and begs her to stop, which she eventually does. Afterwards, i never explore the psyche of Athena, and instead I "Mary Sue" her into overcoming her trauma, and her molester now lives in fear of Athena. Why am I telling the people this? Because I now realize how I botched it up. I made that story because I thought rape was the "nuclear warhead" of drama devices, and I wanted to Mary Sue my main protagonist. (Can Mary Sue be used as a verb?) Anyways, suffice to say that I was dumb. I thought it would be COMPELLING DRAMA and crap like that, but the thing is... I don't know what I'm writing, much less how I'm going to explore what I have written. Quite frankly, I could have done things differently. No one who read it hates that story or anything, but I'm starting to be uncomfortable with it myself...But I'm not taking it down. I have written it and posted it on the internet, and so it's there forever, for better or worse. I've recently "rebooted" my series, starting from the beginning and making new (knock-off) stories, and I'm exploring new ideas to my series, or ideas that have existed that I have yet explore. And you can count on me to keep rape out of the new picture. Sure, I'll have some bad guys threaten other characters with rape, but for some reason I have this obsession with castration of rapists. However, I'll try to keep that to a minimum at worst, and a rarity at best. As for actual rape itself, I won't ever bring it into my stories, since quite frankly I don't know squat about how to handle such a subject with the care it demands. Anyways, that's it. Hopefully I've learned from my mistakes and I won't repeat it. Good day to you all.
Well, good for you, pall. Your tale shows that, if you aknowledge you own flaws, you can see where you did wrong and learn from the experience. Something I doubt the higher ups in the comic book industry can do.
I love the thumbnail image of the AT4W characters costumes arranged in a manner similar to the Identiy Crisis cover. That would make a really cool poster.
When everyone is a basic-ass Batfanboy who has never picked up a damned comicbook without "Bat" in the title in their lives, THAT is how you get these stories, and then the present day scenario where a bunch of edgy dudes really think DC is the "dark and mature" universe. DC is the home of the larger than life, prototypical, idealistic, hopeful superhero. DC are superheroes that Marvel's heroes would look up to if they read about them. Not some edgy cringelords ripping off old Judge Dredd villains (looking at you "BaTMaN wHO laUGhs") or arriving 15 years late to the Zombie fad.
I feel great DC stories take heroes to dark places so that they can overcome darkness and get into the light. Personal triumphs like that make DC heroes worth looking up to.
This is one of those reviews I come back to from time to time. I love the ones where Linkara is truly passionate about how bad a comic is and the DC heroes really seem to be the ones he's most passionate about. The whole thing was a misstep from the start. First there's the very idea of a locked room mystery in the DCU. Magic, aliens, teleportation, and time travel are all things that everyone knows exist. The fact that no one can tell a chemical fire from an energy blast is one thing. However, the fact that it was a flamethrower would in no way exonerate Doctor Light. Just because he HAS energy powers doesn't mean he has to USE them. The fact that Sue's murderer apparently didn't want to be identified could indicate they'd use something other than their normal M.O. Then there's the whole problem with Sue Dibny as the chosen victim, BOTH TIMES. She's the publicly known wife of a publicly known superhero. Ralph has no secret identity AND he actually seeks attention and publicity. Why would the heroes believe Dr. Light's boast about finding their loved ones and raping them too? He has/ had no special insight into their identities. He raped Sue (again publicly known wife of publicly known hero) WHILE SHE WAS ON THE JLA SATELLITE!!! She just happened to be there when he invaded. He wasn't even looking for her and there wasn't anything to indicate he could have found their home or wanted to. Yet, they're willing to cross a moral event horizon when there's no indication Light knows anything AND don't consult with Sue and Ralph about how THEY want to handle the crime.
I think part of the reasoning behind making Dr Light a bumbling villain was the popularity of the teen titans animated series at the time. He was never treated as a series villain in that. And since they felt they needed a joke char to make dangerous the imported the animated version and made him rapey
![[LIVE] : ONE ลุมพินี 87 วันนี้!! คู่เอก "ก้องชัย vs โชคปรีชา"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YN6e7HVnekw/mqdefault.jpg)
"A love letter to the silver age?"
yeah, no. Batman: The Brave and the Bold was a love letter to the silver age. This is just awful.
Thank you! Someone gets it! So many comic book fans I know complain about the show being too silly, to which I respond, "You haven't read a pre-1980's DC comic before, have you?"
Or the New Frontier.
Conrad Kujur
I remember that show! It was basically my introduction to the wider DC universe
That show was great.
Tyler Leach True story that show made me love blue beetle see aquaman as an awesome character and introduced me to everything in the dc universe.
I think most people can agree the real love-letter to the silver-age of DC is titled "Batman: The Brave and the Bold."
Batman's wearing his silver-age outfit, they give the show a sort of retro feel, there's a lot of silver-age characters spotlighted in it, etc.
I am hearing Justice League Action is in the same vein to that show. Is it any good?
vcom741 I'd say so. I've enjoyed just about every episode in the series so far. I think my favorite might be the one where it starts with Darkseid taking a space taxi... And yes it's as dumb and fun as it sounds
I love that show
I agree completely.
Batman the Brave and The Bold was lit
Worst of all is that everything Jean Loring did could be easily explained by later comic book events. She's supposed to become the third Eclipso (Spectre's enemy, an evil angel that can manipulate people into doing horrible things out of wrath and take them as hosts) so it could all be explained by just saying that Eclipso manipulated her into doing this whole plan without leaving a trace, and then take her as a new host.
Eclipso sounds like a weirdo
“Love letter to the silver age” that’s a funny way of spelling out “We wanted to be just like Watchmen.”
So many comic book writers try to emulate watchmen. But they always leave out what made watchmen work.
Even the new frontier did a better job of it
Jaden Bryant
Indeed.
I wouldn't be surprised if DC's new title would be : "Who justices the Justice League?"
Oh, wait, Countdown happened...
captain Rockatron agreed man
I can add two more things that are bad with Identity Crisis.
1) It was what lead to ruining Zatanna as a character by staring her down the road as being the Justice League’s go to girl whenever they need to do some mind crime to someone. Including what happened to Cat woman.
2) Green Arrow’s argument falls apart. At the end of Identity Crisis we have Green Arrow making some speech to The Flash about why this incident is why they need to wear the mask and protect there identity. Not just to protect themselves but there loved ones too. But at the end of the day it wasn’t some supervillain like Dr Light, Deathstroke, Shadow thief, or Captain Boomerang that was the culprit for everything. It was the Ex-wife of one of the hero’s. There was no contingency for someone that was already associated with one of there own going rouge and going after the loved ones of other members. Except maybe never getting married and living lives of solitude forever.
Good observation. While I think Identity Crisis is written rather well, this is a stupid part of the comic's writing.
Why didn't Green Arrow have a downward spiral culminating with Black Canary rejecting his marriage proposal?
"A wizard did it."
"I WANT AN APB ON THE WIZARD SHAZAM!"
The Deathstroke Lantern Ring thing could have been cool. If it showed that he and Kyle wills 'briefly' struggling for dominance over the thing with the Ring letting out a blast knocking them both back. Kyle still has it on and makes a comment along the lines of. "So that's the security lock." before getting up and back into the fight. There could even be a narration box saying.
"Slade Wilson did have a strong will. But the Ring didn't choose him."
Both look cool and Deathstroke doesn't appear overpowered.
Avenger85438 I have heard that Deathstroke was immediately nerfed in DC Rebirth because of this fight scene in the graphic novel.
This shows that the writers weren’t just incompetent, but also lazy.
@@fugitivehunter i kinda liked that It showed Deathstroke is not a push over but this is just way too much for deathstroke. I also liked they made a darker approach to the story
What you said should happen in the comics if it hasn’t already. Maybe have it with Jon Stewart and Deathstroke or Lobo.
And it’s clear that Flash and Green Lantern were throwing the fight. That’s the only explanation for why they became completely braindead in that Slade fight.
"Marvel's doing dark comics? Do dark DC comics!"
"Marvel's doing light movies? Do dark DC movies!"
spartan117825 it would have Blood,Sex,& Swearing Galore and not jusy have them say Bastich or Frag
spartan117825 That would be the most gloriously rediculous thing ever.
It's not so much that the MCU movies are lighter, just more varied in tone. I mean on one end you've got Guardians of the Galaxy and on the other you have Winter Soldier. On one hand there's Spiderman Homecoming, on the other there's Infinity War. Thor Ragnarok vs WandaVision. And then there are the films that are more neutral in tone like Iron Man 1, Captain America The First Avenger, and Black Panther.
21:32 - I agree with Linkara's point but goddamn. That art though. It's Robin being embraced by the comforting darkness that is Batman. It couldn't have looked better than it did in that artwork, holy shit.
When I first read this, I was convinced Jean Loring's confession was a red herring. Because it's literally conflicting with so much evidence from the earlier parts, and a huge plot point was about people having their memories altered, I thought that Dr Light had was somehow gonna be revealed to have secretly recovered his memories before Sue's death, found a way to mess with Jean's mind, and set this whole thing in motion to cause pain for the heroes' loved ones: Tim's dad died, Sue died, Jean was left insane, Lois Lane was threatened. In the flash back, he even threatens to hurt the League's loved ones. It all feels like it was set up to have the bad guy win, Light gets away with it because everyone accepts Jean as the murderer. But they didn't? So, in the end, it's just real unsatisfying.
swguygardner that would have been a better ending
It's a more coherent plot, with a more satisfying payoff than what we actually got.
I mean we've also gotten a story about what happens if you mess with Superman's loved ones...not gonna lie Joker, that was not one of your brightest moments; though one can certainly argue that Joker has been intentionally pushing their buttons in a convoluted indirect insane way of committing SUICIDE, because in the end Joker always gets the last laugh.
@@GokuSS400 the injustice universe is it's own thing though, I don't really consider those characters to be the same interpretation as the standards. I mean, it doesn't paint superman in a good light to be one dead loved one away from becoming super-Hitler, but it's especially bad for wonder woman, who had none of superman's motivation for becoming a mass murdering despot, but does so with about twice the gusto.
@@swguygardner To play devil's advocate for Injustice Wondy and Supes being...Injustice Wondy and Supes. The second game does imply she's being influenced by the Anti-Life Equation. (Her pre-battle dialog with Darkseid is what I'm referring to) So it's slightly...slightly excusable if you assume she was like that from the beginning of that series. It's also worth pointing out that Injustice Supes doesn't initially go full tyrant until the end of year one, at least if we're counting the comics at least. And while it's still pretty silly for him to go that route for Superman in the main universe, Injustice Superman faced Lois' death, his parents being kidnapped by the government, and Darkseid invading earth in a single year.
The part where you talk about rape in this video was very important for my formation back in the day. I remember when it came out, it was the first time I've seen it being adressed this way. After your explanation here, I started seeing rape in media with other eyes and got to despise people who use it lazyly as a plot device like that. And actually give it the importance and weight it needs to have, not only in media, but in my life, in discussions. Yeah, you helped a dumb teenager understand some really important thing years ago. Again, you're awesome.
I love this comment, be proud of yourself ❤️
Linkara helped me form my view of how rape is used in stories as well so I definitely relate to this
Yeah. Berserk this is not.
My experience with Dr. Light before this video was the Teen Titans show, where Raven was going evil and dragged him into her cloak where he left curled up, beaten and bruise, and again later where Raven acted like she was going to do it again before he turned himself in. Needless to say, this was quite a whiplash for me.
From what i can tell, Dr. Light was DC's go-to joke villain before identity crisis came out.
@@jamieterrill The sad thing is that Dr Light *remained* a joke. Only this time the joke was that he's a card-carrying serial rapist. Small wonder he's one of few mainstay supervillains the Spectre actually got to off
@@redjirachi1 I love _Final Crisis: Revelations,_ (the comic where Spectre kills Doctor Light, for anyone wondering about the context), particularly the introspection about the roles of the Spectre and the Spectre's host, and the introduction of a counterpoint to the Spectre in the form of the Radiant.
Spoilers ahead:
Although, the whole "Vandal Savage is Cain" thing was confusing. Was it just the reality warping powers of the Spear that when thrust into Vandal Savage, created a dissociative identity as Cain, or did the Spear actually awaken an alternate personality?
And then in Infinite Crisis. Dr Light is part of the group of villains who slaughtered Uncle Sam and the Freedom Fighters.
They character assassinated him from being a goofy minor villain to a creepy sexual deviant.
Batman: “ OH NO, they’re making me love rock n roll! NOOO!!!”
I know that Fortunate Son isn't canon but dammit I love that so much I see Batman actually hating rock n roll because of that.
It's a hilarious running joke uwu
Wait...Batman has photogenic memories, meaning his mind is able to rememeber almost everything he's ever seen or done in his life.
Wiping 10 minutes of Batman's mind would cause him to question things, since he would find it wierd that he rememebers going into the JLA Watchtower, then being in a completly diffrent place at a diffrent time, making himself ask what happened
Add it to the list
It's magic, I don't need to explain
An event comic with a rape scene is apparently a "tribute" to the Silver Age? Whoever said that must be suffering from a really bad hangover.
Maybe the guy who said that only has experince with the silver age through silver age superman cover's.
My guess is that Brad was just trying to rationalize why he agreed to this in the first place.
1:30 DC has actually done this for a really long time. I saw a Stan Lee interview where he talked about how (around the silver age I believe), many Marvel and DC authors/writers/etc knew each other and saw themselves as friends or colleagues. Apparently the DC/Marvel relationship was more of a friendly rivalry than a hatred as it's generally seen. DC was thinking that their sales lagged behind Marvel because their covers were more eye-catching. They thought "Marvel uses a lot of red on the covers, let's try that" or "Marvel's covers use dialogue, let's put dialogue on all of ours". Marvel, in response, would then do the opposite, like using as little red as possible or having no speech bubbles and still outsold them. Proving that Marvel knew how to write interesting characters and good plots instead of having to rely on marketing tactics.
No, DC always had more intresting books. I found a lot of marvels characters to be quite unlikable.
Elongated man in blackest with the atom about that:
Atom: It was an accident
black lantern elongated man: She brought a flame-thrower "just in case"......tdfw
I was going to give this a thumbs up but it's a 52 right now. :P
@@TheComicArchivist Well now it's at 72 so how 'bout it?
To be fair, if i were preparing to shrink and go inside someone, i would bring weapons too. White blood cells.
@@JaelinBezel but why a flamethrower? Something that is known to spread
@@Predator20357 She had more than one weapon. Ratchet packs around a whole arsenal, the Pyrocitor being only one of a wide variety.
I hate the whole idea that, darker makes something more mature. It's shallow, and is obviously the result of someone trying to act mature, but in reality has no idea what real maturity is.
A story can be light, or have comedy, and still tackle complex issues. Avatar the last Airbender is the pinnacle of this.
It's why I'm not a fan of DC's coming movie universe. Because it look like like it's going full steam with that idea. Making everything 90's level dark and gritty to try and pass it off as mature.
shadowspider9 You do know know Avatar: the Last Airbender and the Legend of Korra both a have mix of comedy and drama, right? I think you forgot to say serious in the third sentence.
Xavier 89
That's what i meant. Last Airbender and Kora have both comedy and drama. It mixes light and fun moments with darker mature moments.
shadowspider9 Also, "granny"? Did you meant to say gritty or edgey?
Xavier 89 opps. fixed.
shadowspider9 Yeah, It's like DC is trying to be Marvel.
So with brainwashing Dr Light, why not make him heroic instead of an incompetent? Don't get me wrong, they're both morally outrageous but the former is also productive
real reason: it's a retcon they didn't give that much thought on aside explain where the vile from the villain went
comic possible reason: Would kind of suck for dibny and plastic man that they have to work with him brainwashed or not and as mean spirited as it sounds I can see a few heroes who wants to see the guy get punched in the face. I also assume they can't turn him into a normal guy since it's too much part of his identity
I haven't read it, but I read the mind-wipe was a side effect. However, it's that it's later retconned that they DID brainwash Flash rogues and Catwoman to be more heroic, but not the Joker, cause murdering people for shits and giggles is one thing, but how can they just let guys like Trickster run around STEALING stuff!!
Markus Criticus well Joker is semi immune to any mind attack due to being to irredeemably fucked in the brain
*****
... That's the explanation they went it? Cause man, that's lame. Either way, Ra's Al Ghul, Vandal Savage, Lex Luthor and such? Nah. Fucking Prankster tho? As someone pointed out, this is like US president authorizing nuclear strike to get rid of Westboro Babtist Church.
Markus Criticus well that's usually the explanation for when guy like the specter or anyone doesn't kill or stop Joker despite their power, as for the other I always figured it was because it's too close to their identity (hence why Light was still a criminal despite brainwashing) like you can try making them more heroic but they needed to have some standard first (lot of the flash rogue gallery are somewhat decent).
I mean heroes fights off brainwashing all the time why villains would be different?
Firestorm blowing up at all is a huge problem. He's called "The Nuclear Man" because he can re-arrange atoms, not because he's a nuclear reactor. The guy who blows up if you stab him is Captain Atom, not Firestorm!
Lazy writing I agree. Can't firestorm became intangible like Martian Manhunter? So why was he stabbed?
@@RenaldyCalixteyou could argue that since Firestorm was caught off guard, he couldn't become intangible fast enough. The fact he still went Ka-Boom is dumb though! I've seen him in situations where he's forced to discharge lots of energy similar to a nuke, but it was never a "poke a hole in me and I die"!
Now I want them to reintroduce Ronnie from Future's End and make HIM the new Monarch. Like how DC finally turned Captain Atom into Monarch in Battle For Bludhaven. After the plan to do so in Armageddon 2001 didn't happen thanks to a leak in regard to people figuring who it could be due to the comics that were slated to end.
(Oh. Just re-watched the 500th episode and Ronnie DID go kaboom. OK)
@@masedaace5473This reminded me of Ultimate Nightcrawler's demise in Ultimatum. People asked how it happened since he could teleport. But someone else pointed out the limitation of it. And that he could've been caught off guard and didn't have enough time to concentrate and teleport away (Can't believe I'm playing demons advocate in regard to a hero demise in a different bad event)
I like how Blackest Night makes fun of Jean's motivation.
With her Black Lantern form taunting Ray, saying obviously it was premeditated.
In a book that was pretty grim (though I still loved it) that made me burst out laughing.
Sousabird Oh man, I loved Blackest Night as well. Personally, I found the Black Lantern Fridge to be pretty amusing.
***** Yep! I wonder where it falls in crossover/event lists? I know he prefers the JLA/Titans as his number one, but I wonder if Blackest Night is in his top 5?
...personally I loved the fridge creeping up on Kyle with the Black Lantern magnet
I love it when companies make fun of their crappy stories.
@@BodySprayMan they had a fridge was in a character or was it like their version of the lantern
Honestly I think that it is the rape of Sue side plot line that makes me not want to read this. I live by the philosophy that unless it is 100% needed and a major part of the story, rape should be avoided in the story you are telling. Also when it is in your story it should be done in a respectful manner, not something to make your story edgy. Like give a lot of attention to the victim going through the trauma they will have because rape is a horrifying experience, don’t ignore what the victim will go through in the aftermath of the rape. It is pretty obvious that this is only used to be edgy and shocking for the sake of being edgy and shocking.
I actually did wait till I read Identity Crisis to watch this video (just bought and read it today actually), and... Jesus H. Christ!
This thing was dark, and it did not let up. There were many points where reading through this book was a bit of a strain with how twisted it got. But what really drove it home for me were two things in the book; the super heroes (particularly Green Arrow) and the stuff with Sue Dibny. There are no repercussions for all the mind wiping the superheroes did, and the fact they did it to Batman, a big namer and their friend/teammate, really pissed me off. My only solace was that stories after Identity Crisis rightfully call them out for this.
And as for Sue... Good God. Her death alone would have been sad and tragic, but to show her be RAPED by Dr. Light felt despicable, and as for her death scene... When they showed the pregnancy test... And it was positive... I was speechless. I almost put the book down right then and there. That moment alone, combined with the recent info released by one of the creators, just showed me that all they wanted for this story was be as dark as they could get. And I wasn’t proven wrong.
As such, nice video Linkara. While there were a couple points I would disagree with you on, overall, I think you covered what was wrong with this book very well.
What were the points you disagreed with
"For a crazy person, she seemed pretty functional in her actions" and the Arkham thing: Law & The Multiverse has pointed out multiple times that there is a major difference between MEDICAL insanity and LEGAL insanity. One that most people and DC obviously do NOT get. Take the Joker, DC's textbook example of "not guilty by means of insanity". There is absolutely no question that the Joker is loco in the coco. However, the definition of legal insanity, I.e. admissible as a plea, requires that the defendant NOT UNDERSTAND THAT THE ACTIONS WERE WRONG, or WHY they were wrong. The Joker obviously does. Loring seems to me to straddle the line. She knows she murdered Sue-she knows the THAT-IS-WRONG part-but doesn't seem to grasp the WHY-IS-WRONG part, since a part of her plan that Linkara skips is "make them appreciate what they have". The murders force the heroes to draw closer to their loved ones, so she doesn't get why that's bad.
What?
+KidSnivy69 Which part do you not understand? He is absolutely right.
***** I just don't understand what he is saying, don't get your panties in a twist
Ok. What don't you understand, and we'll start there.
Dr. Dhoom
Backed up by doctors.
"A love letter to the Silver Age.’
Brad Meltzer must keep a minimum of 60 yards away from the Silver Age.
Maybe Brad Meltzer probably really meant to think of it as an love letter to the dark ages of comic books instead.
One of my favorite moments in JLA Vol. 3 was that bit in the Injustice Gang storyline where a blond guy with a giant, bushy beard shows up to yell at the heroes about collateral damage and the importance of the little people. The best part? He's not Green Arrow (who was dead at the time).
Not only does it make for a pretty good throwaway moment in-story, but the creators flat-out said that they wanted to imply that the reason no one could figure out GA's secret identity was that there were several loud-mouthed leftist crusaders with blond Robin Hood beards wandering around Seattle. (See, DC? Comedy can be interesting and clever, too.)
At less Batman: The Brave and the Bold was a better love letter to the Silver Age rather than this.
A wizard killing Sue Dibny makes more sense than Jean Lorring. There are several evil wizards in the DC Universe that would gladly kill a hero’s wife.
Here's a better idea, how about not have this crap at all.
I let out an actual sigh of relief when he mentioned Jack Drake. His murder, unless I'm terribly mistaken, was totally unnecessary to the greater murder and investigation plot.
Edit: OK, maybe it was tangentially related, but he still didn't have to die.
Why has Arkham Asylum not been permanently shut down and replaced by a far better institution with top security advancements and trustworthy and competent staff that aren't easily tricked? Oh yea, gotta have an excuse for Batman's villains constantly escaping.
There multiple reasons varies from author to continuity, Bruce try to shut down Arkham and built a better place but something something mob something something villain.
Dr. Arkham in the new 52 universe says that no one else will take his patients
@@Smartalic10 yeah I was going to say that........... No one wants the Joker in their building surrounded by possible recruits.........
And also the American healthcare system being crap.
I think the lands just cursed
Any story that uses a minor character's rape as a prop for an unrelated character to mine drama out of is a story that is poorly written. I'm sorry but if you're going to do something as disgusting as retcon Sue as the victim of a brutal rape in the same story she's killed off in just to give Batman trust issues, you are a fucking terrible writer. The aftermath of what Sue and Ralph felt after that is not explored it can never be explored because Sue was killed and because it's a retcon.
I try to forget this story exists because it is a story trying way too hard to be edgy and failing at even providing entertainment.
"I try to forget this story exists because it is a story trying way too hard to be edgy and failing at even providing entertainment.
" Casually summing up the majority of the DC Universe Live Action movies in a very nice succinct sentence.
If I was to be honest, I think it's a really compelling story. I'm just can't help but to hate it for how they treated Sue Dibny. She was reduced into a prop.
Nothing personal, but it’s amazing where even the people who like this story don’t like certain parts of it.
If I wrote a love letter to the silver age it'd have shit like the Joker literally pulling a giant mech out of his ass to terrorize Gotham, Dinosaur riding space pirates, and Green Arrow firing arrows loaded with jars of chili as their heads
was he using the jars of chili to feed the poor or needy or to hurt his opponents like with pepper spray?
I don't know.
+Ferris Welker If you want to read a truly great love letter to the silver age read "Justice" by Jim Krueger and Alex Ross. A truly epic story with a huge ensemble of heroes and villains and beautifully drawn to boot.
+Ferris Welker Saints Row
+Ferris Welker I'd read it.
I hate how so often it seems like they need to make whoever Batman's sidekick is be just like him. Tim Drake father dying is probably the best example of that. But the one that angered me the most is Dick Grayson. And how they were like yeah him and Starfire can never work out why because Dick Grayson is also a playboy just like Bruce is. So at the end of it they wrote it as Dick was more so just always sexually lusting after Starfire instead of ever truly being in love with her. Which my god did that drive me insane. Like really nothing I had read up to that point lead me to believe anything other than that Dick truly loved Starfire and that if he was ever gonna settle down with anybody it would be her. But nah just erase all those facts because if we write it as Dick never truly loved her that much then that must be the case damn all the proof you have seen in the past that contradicts that. As none of that matters anymore. It made my wish that Kingdom Come was actually the real DC universe as at least in that timeline Dick and Starfire had a daughter together.
One of the best uses of rape in a story I've read was in issue #118 of Invincible. Not only was it a man who was raped instead of a woman, but the story it took time to explore the psychology of the experience. Invincible was acting weird whenever his wife tried to make sexual contact with him and eventually he revealed that he was raped. He then said that the most traumatizing thing about it was that he could have done something yet didn't, which left him wondering whether he was subconsciously enjoying it.
Mount C That is pretty good. Obviously not the rape, but the way they handled it. Very professional.
Mount C Wait..what? There the story was better because a man was raped instead of a woman? how sexist are you?
Zeke Payne Ha! Good one. :P But now that that's out there, what I mean is that, like Linkara said, rape is usually interpreted as something that happens to women, yet the fact that Robert Kirkman wrote about a man being raped shows he's intelligent enough to realize rape happens to all genders.
Mount C oh ok
Well, I read about a Nightwing comic where he got raped and the story is considered crap. So yeah, but I do like your argument"
Pretty much every defense of the Jean Loring reveal I've seen pretty much just ends up being "well she's crazy, so OF COURSE what she's doing doesn't make any sense". Did she go to the Doctor Doom school of convoluted plans? What made her think that just because Sue was attacked/killed that Ray would immediately get back with her? I don't know if this was the intention beforehand, but it really just seemed like a super lackluster way to get Jean into a position where she could become Eclipso.
I just realized this and now I'm laughing at just how stupid that "clever" twist was. Linkara was right. It is amazing that comic writers not only expect us to believe this kind of sheer level of dumb, but that they keep on coming up with it.
Not even Doom would come up with such a foolish plan. Doom would be more sophisticated and straight forward with his schemes.
@Drexel Petrone She's a Dibnybot
The worst part is that it worked. The "revelation part", the _cui bono_ part is among the worst resolusions ever "who benefits? the families of the other heroes". WHAT?
And how is Ralph Dibny supposed to get closer to HIS wife when she’s murdered?!
Darwyn Cookes New Frontier is a REAL love letter to the Silver Age.
***** It sure is. One of my favorite Morrison books.
+LRM23936 ah the new frontier; still on of the best comics I've ever read.
+LRM23936 Justice by Alex Ross. I would gladly sell ten years off of my life span to see that comic done well live action. It would be a miniscule price to pay for that privilege.
Alex Ross is a genius. Both as a writer and an artist.
hell new frontier is one of the best dc animated movies too
*Spoilers for Secret Six below!!!*
Ralph and Sue Dibny are alive in the New 52, and as far as I can tell, Sue was never raped in the new universe by Doctor Light. Doesn't make up for this, mind you, just happy these two are able to be happy in the new universe.
I'm...Conflicted now. What happened with the Dibny's was just gross, crass, and fucking sleazy and greasy as hell and the general darkening that came from it was terrible(unrelated, but breaking up Stargirl and Captain Marvel/Billy Batson is another huge fucking sore point) so this great GREATLY pleases me. But damn near everything in this new universe has been complete ass in some way.
doomrider7 Might wanna read DC Universe Rebirth #1. :)
What happens? Feel free to spoil it man it's all good. Also, as good as things seem(YAY, Wally's back!!!), I find it incredibly sad that DC needed to do TWO Crisis Crossover events(Convergence and now this one) to un-fuck up their universe. Like, if they had just not gone this direction they'd have saved themselves a LOT of problems.
Read it. My throat damn near collapsed when Linda didn't recognize Wally since I'm reading their arcs right now. Also shed manly tears with the scene between Wally and Barry. I'm FINALLY invested in this new universe(though I do want to read Batgirl and a few other things).
doomrider7 As disappointed as I was that Stephanie Brown was no longer Batgirl, the New 52 Batgirl book IS worth reading, although the Batgirl Wanted arc was a little aggravating to me personally.
Fun Fact, you can't be declared legally insane, even if you have a mental disorder of some kind, if you can be shown to be able to think rationally and still be able to recognize what the law is. The definition of legal insanity is super specific. The fact that her plan has a certain amount of logic to it - even if it is poorly planned - and that she knew she was breaking the law and made a willful choice to disregard it means she's not legally insane. This is especially true if they imply that she was capable of manipulating the murder scene to cover up her crime.
The DCU definition of being legally insane is different from the real world, otherwise Joker would've already been executed for the shit he's done.
The comic is dark just to be "edgy", not to actually talk about dark themes with maturity.
A spiritual prequel to “Heroes in crisis”, if you will.
In all honesty it surprises me when ever a company that KNOWS how to do serious materiel, doesn't end up doing it properly. There's no reason to kill off characters "just cuz"
Hell, sometimes you don't even need to kill anyone! A character death only means something if it has a lasting affect, and felt like it meant something. Some of them dying meant nothing, and the affects it did have weren't satisfying.
Plus not every super hero needs SOMEONE TO DIE in their family! Tim drake's dad could've been around, but nope they killed him. Why? Just cause the other robin's lost their birth parents. That's it.
Dylan Trent and IF a writer really does plan on killing off a hero, I'm going to quote Linkara here "Make it their crowning moment of awesome" make it the epic Heroic Sacrifice where it has meaning and is felt by the other heroes and motivates them to keep being heroes.
As for kid heroes, having their parents alive and well and ACCEPTING of the fact that their kid is a superhero can provide for great support. They don;t have to hide the fact that their crime fighting and when the strain gets to them, they can turn to their mom and dad for support.
Chocobo0Scribe Yeah that's another thing; not every superhero needs to do the same things as others.
Sure maybe a hero can have a secret identity from the public; but not from his loved ones since well.. it's perfectly LOGICAL they should know. Hell some heroes like Ironman do fine not HAVING a secret identity, even if some ill affects do happen with it.
Plus i always dislike how heroes never get a LASTING relationship, or even get married anymore. Because some how "there's no story there." when in fact it has MUCH more potential than what is usually done.
Dylan Trent
Speaking of that...of someone told me they wanted to do a run of Spiderman with Spiderman and Spidergirl as a father/daughter crime fighting team I'd say "That sounds awesome! Do it!"
Heck you could have a family of superheroes and get some nice stories out of it as their crime fighting life starts to overlap with their day to day life.
Chocobo0Scribe Okay; i would literally buy physical copies of that comic. That is freaking awesome! Spidey is like my all time favorite superhero so that'd be awesome
Dylan Trent
And considering that Spidergirl had a huge fanbase, imagine how successful that comic could be.
And for the folks at Marvel who think that an adult Peter Parker can't be relatable...haven't you heard of "Being a Kid at Heart"?
One of the things that annoyed me about this and what followed is how Green Arrow so vigorously defended the mind wipes. First, he voted against it. I can MAYBE see him agreeing to go along with the majority, but there's no way he'd really ever approve of it. He'd more likely have quit the League in the immediate aftermath, while still keep silent out of obligation to his friends. It might even explain his time in Seattle.
I HATE what they did to Dr. Light. Rape is WAY out of character for him.
But they needed DRAMA and the only way you could possibily create DRAMA is through rape.
BizarroPhoenix Having the characters face an internal dilemma that makes them question their own morality? Pfft! How stupid! Everyone knows that the only way to create conflict in a story is by killing off a character in a brutal fashion or having them be sexually assaulted.
Tyler Shewchuk This same storyline could have been carried out (and executed with a bit more finesse and sensitivity perhaps) by someone who's much more capable of committing a rape, someone more disturbed like Scarecrow or the Joker (even though they don't seem to show any interest in sex as far as I've seen) or any supervillain that more likely has the more violent and depraved crimes on their rap sheet, but Dr. Light??
He revs up his Harley on a regular basis, if you catch my drift.
***** ***** But does he? We never get any real confirmation that he does (that I've seen) because when Harley tries to "get his clown car started" so to speak, he always pushes her away in favour of something job-related. Wearing nothing but her headpiece and a red negligee? Rejected: gotta plan to kill Batman. Covered in pie cream from head to toe with a debatable lack of any clothing underneath? Rejected: too busy finding some bozo stealing my clown-shtick. While I'm not outright denying he doesn't take an interest now and again, I haven't seen any damning evidence as of yet.
Meltzer meant a "love letter to the Silver Age" by way of "showing that those so called innocent stories were darker than we thought." And this is true because mind-wiping a villain was so casual, it was commonplace. Batman and Superman would hypnotize themselves after time travel stories. But this is no justification for the rape scene which would never have happened.
I find it ironic now that both heroes in crisis and identity Crisis have the same problems because they both involved murder mysteries stories that make no sense what’s so ever and have good artwork but none of the clues are lining up but that’s just my opinion.
You’re on the spot there actually, both do have the word “crisis” a crisis in “WTH is going on here?”
@@vwin9112 indeed and you're right about that
I will always be in the minority for loving both of them lol
@@cwjedi i can understand that
Yeah I mean everybody hates Chris (a typo)
I kinda have to wonder... why didn't they just say Sue Dibny was cooking when Jean attacked her? That way you could have Jean running away in a panic as she realizes what she's done, whatever was cooking starts burning after a while, and the apartment goes up in smoke. Or if you MUST have Jean burning Sue's corpse, have her deliberately cause the food to burn, in order to make it seem like it was all an accident.
Makes more sense than her literally packing heat, in this case a flamethrower...
I'm not a big DC reader but I was really into Chuck Dixon's Robin comics when I was a teenager. In a way Tim Drake was my "Spider-Man" I guess, the teenage hero I related to. Part of the reason I liked him is because he was a very Marvel-like character with a lot of normal human concerns that moonlighting as a super hero got in the way of. It's kind of ironic that the attempt by Identity Crisis to be more like Marvel just made Tim Drake more like the Batman instead.
On Firestorm I really hate when writers think they need to kill off a character before they can pass the mantle down to someone else. Have them get de-powered or have them retire or whatever. At least then you don't have to jump through as many hoops when to inevitably bring them back. Killing a character meaninglessly is not dramatic. It adds nothing to a story and just complicates things later.
Am I the only one who thinks the writer who killed firestorm thought he had the same weakness as Captain Atom?
Prof. Loophole No.
I really hate this death because like with the death of the 2nd Atom Ryan Choi the death of the OG Firestorm was an insulting death only put in for shock.
Hahaha! The bumper joke at the end just reminded me.
In one issue of the comic, Oliver Queen's secret identity is exposed--- and nobody cares... because they didn't realize that it was supposed to be a secret BECAUSE of the beard. XD
RyutheWeredragon That's awesome.
The OG Firestorm's death pisses me off for the same reasons as Ryan Choi's death mostly because it was a shock death that was insulting and served no real purpose.
At least Jason was a great Firestorm and brought a lot of intetesting things. Well at least until Countdown and the Gehena subplot
I didn't care for either the new Firestorm or Atom I much prefer Ronnie and Ray.
Good news! Identity Crisis has been entirely wiped from canon! (A couple years ago, in Justice League of America #17, actually, but I'm just finding out about it). And thank Rao, too, since Ray Palmer deserved to *finally* get a happy ending.
DC needs to stop trying to shoehorn angst into perfectly functioning characters. They are REALLY bad at it.
Can they also stop shoehorning in cycisim?
KidSnivy69 Yeah, superheroes are supposed to inspire hope, hard to do when they are constantly talking about how hopeless their mission is....
Some comic writers are under the delusion that every superhero is Batman.
***** Even Batman's brooding has gotten worse.
Banchoking I may be looking at things the wrong way, but I feel that some of the folks at DC (particularly the top-brass types) are a bit embarrassed that they're making superhero stuff, so they try to crowbar in a load of angst to try to make it seem more serious.
Some people might say it's hypocritical that Linkara is against dark retcons when he did one regarding the Magic Gun... but personally I think it's actually kind of heartwarming. Throughout this whole show, Linkara has always had Margaret on his side.
Exactly-no matter how dark his storylines get, they have happy endings.
The magic gun was played for two jokes before its backstory IIRC. First it was called a "suicide pistol" IIRC. In otherwords textbook black comedy. The end of the Magic Gun's backstory arc took that same idea and took it seriously, taking what was previously a "funny" gag and looking at what it actually takes to force someone that far into a corner. Given that, there needs to be something that provides that dramatic context to begin with, and the horror story behind the gun served that well.
The other was "It's magic, I don't need to explain it." And actually explaining it actually enhances that joke, especially given that Linkara runs a little review show, and yet puts more thought into plot elements than Quesada did.
The Miller Time watch is just used for a simple gag on how often Linkara goes back to reviewing Miller comics. While you could give it a dark retcon, it would only serve to make that gag really awkward in hindsight.
Tareltonlives the don bluth philosophy
That's a really good way of looking at Marvel and DC's lineups and I'm mad I never thought of it before.
Marvel's heroes are the teens with attitude, DC's are the mythological beings brought to life. One saves the day and then takes you to lunch, the other saves the day and makes sure you're staying in school.
RE: all comments about "yellow gloves"--Kyle's ring didn't have the yellow impurity, especially at this point, pre-Rebirth.
35:17
Q: "So as a murder mystery, this is not a story that ends with smiles, is it?"
*What?*
B: *"Is there ever a happy ending at the end of a murder mystery?"*
*WHAT???*
Murder Mysteries have had happy endings since the very beginning. Do you know why? Because a murder mystery almost always ends up w/ the killer being revealed, caught, and brought to justice. The happy ending is that good triumps over evil. If that wasn't the case then Murder Mysteries wouldn't be so popular b/c there's no appeal in being drawn into a mystery and following it closely only for the killer to never be revealed or get caught. It'd make people feel like they wasted their time b/c it WOULD be a waste of their time.
The thing with Ray Palmer's wife wanting him back is doubly stupid because I think SHE was the one who pushed the divorce in the first place because she was seeing another man. If she really wanted him back all she had to do was say so. He never wanted to split up in the first place.
I could see the mind wipe of Dr. Light being a good excuse for his personality change but the rape part was not required. His infiltrating their base and just attacking Sue would've been plenty.
Also, as Linkara pointed out, the Batman thing was dumb as he could've just found out in the story and distrust them from then on.
I can give them Arkham as Ivy Town might be too small to have it's own mental hospital but I have to take away points since she's just a person and ANY mental hospital would do.
It also sounds like a lot of the side stuff was just put in it because it needed to happen somewhere and they couldn't figure out where else to put it. To me killing off Firestorm to introduce a new one should've been done in the first few issues of the new Firestorm title. Hell, they could've kept who killed him a secret and made the new Firestorm finding out the whole first storyline.
As for Boomerang I would guess it was to make way for the son to take over but that story SHOULD'VE happened in the the, then, current "Flash" series.
That picture at 4:51 just really gets to me. Seeing Ralph in utter despair over the loss of his wife just sends a powerful message.
Another issue with Firestorm's death, not much actually happens when you puncture a nuclear reactor.
A fission reactor is a big pile of solid matter, like uranium or plutonium pellets, graphite bricks, movable cadmium control rods or similar neutron-absorbing material to moderate the reactor's speed. You can't really puncture a fission reactor.
You can only puncture a container, like a balloon, or a gas tank. The effect is nothing more than to let out what is contained. A punctured object is simply no longer useful as a container.
Commercial fission reactors are immersed in a heat transfer medium. Puncturing the cooling vessel could produce a rapid loss of cooling medium. This could lead to a meltdown if the reactor's dampening mechanisms also broke at the same time.
An implosion-type fusion reactor also cannot be punctured for the same reason as a fission reactor, it's a solid-state apparatus. You can, however, puncture a plasma fusion reactor. The result is a rapid quenching of the reaction. There might be mechanical effects, too, because the puncture would also let out some hot dense gas and maybe collapse the magnetic field, and a decent amount of energy would drop into the local environment. But it would only wreck the plasma vessel and the room it's in.
In none of these cases would you actually get a nuclear explosion. At worse, there'd be an explosion of radioactive material, but it wouldn't be a big Fat Man-level explosion.
web.archive.org/web/20120206063519/www.whiterose.org/howlingcurmudgeons/archives/006974.html The original web page for this article is dead so the Wayback Machine was the only way for me to get it. The author of this article is a physicist, unlike the superheroes involved in that scene and apparently, Brad Meltzer, too.
Very impressive. Do you study nuclear physics?
I can somewhat understand Jean not directly going to Atom to reconcile because most people who regret breaking up don’t want to “crawl back.” But her method of getting Atom’s attention is so dumb and “she’s crazy” is such a lazy excuse
Avengers Dissassembled is pretty much the Marvel equivalent of this story.
When did that comic come out?
KidSnivy69 2004. Same year as Identity Crisis.
*****
Thank You
***** That's a scary irony. BMB (Brian Michael Bendis) done fucked up the Scarlet Witch.
***** was Avengers Dissassembled the story that lead into the House of M event comic?
As a fan of forensics, yeah, the "mystery" falls apart really quickly. A woman is found burned in her apartment. Burning makes it hard to tell an accurate time of death. Which means phone records and internet records are the first thing that would be looked at, since a dead person can't check their emails or chat with friends (unless there is a Ouija board attached to a phone or something). Given that Jean Loring was the last person on the phone with the victim, it would not have even gone to casing offenders or people with motive.
Even if Loring torched the place for evidence, the torching itself leaves evidence, as many gasoline-based propellents have chemical tracers to allow for police to track gasoline back to its delivery truck. They would identify what gas stations were distributing the specific gasoline used for the flamethrower, and a detective would take photos of primary suspects to the cashiers and attendants. As soon as one of them recognized Loring, or Loring showed up on tape, she'd have a detail on her 24/7. No hits, no faked suicide. A search warrant would be issued for her house and if there was evidence of gasoline on any clothes, or even in the shower drain, or evidence of clothes being burned, Loring would get the full investigative treatment.
That's just how badass we mere mortals are. No fancy superpowers, just an investigation policy that has been refined over the thousands of years of people murdering each other.
That last bit you said is both awesome, and dark when you think about it. I agree though, years of science and experience has taught us plenty.
That just shows how incompetent the JLA are in this story.
I feel like this event only exists to set up Blackest Night, which itself was a great event & got me hooked on the Green Lantern mythos.
It's like there's two major stories here that got shoved together. Sue's murder kinda/sorta kicked off the mind wipe thing, but as shown. Dr. Light probably would have remembered eventually, anyway. We later learned that Batman HAD already recovered his memories.
It also ruined Ralph and Sue because they could never again be Ralph and Sue, even with a resurrection. This changes who they are/were on such a fundamental level and they're not even the focus of this story or much of what came after. Reading an old JLE/JLI issue with them working alongside the female Dr. Light feels wrong. At least 52 made an attempt to fix it without hitting the reset, but it's sill a loss because they'll never be quite that fun again.
I'll always point to "What's So Funny About Truth, Justice, & The American Way" as a truly adult comic that addresses "dark heroes". It gives a glimpse at how frightening Superman would be if he truly cut loose and reaffirms that his code of honor and conduct are correct. Identity Crisis is just another example of what I the call dark=asshole method of lazy writing.
I appreciate what What's So Funny was trying to do for superhero comics...I just hate that story. Manchester Black feels like a plot device to explain why dark anti heroes are bad instead of a fully fleshed out character. He also is too easily outsmarted by Superman. But I appreciate the story criticizing comic editors and publishers obsession with edgy characters.
Zatanna and Kyle should have known that mages belong in the back.
I read the trade of this when it came out, during that time period about 3 to 4 years DC was getting "SERIOUS FICTION AUTHORS" to write some books, Meltzer was one of those as was Jodi Picoult who did Wonder Woman Love and Murder. I was working in a book store at the time and was thinking "why are you having these folks write it? Even if they are fans they're not professionals in this media"
This comic suffers from an identity crisis.
I get it
Ohhhh...BURN!
@@vwin9112Just like Sue
i love deathstrook but god that pissed me off, i mean he overwilled a GL, ya green arrow ya i can see that but the over will and knowing were the flash is going to be...don't care that's just dumb, oh and that part about him saying he has "90%" of his brain working....even in 04 that was just dumb
TheMetalwolf77777
And this is the same guy who has so often got his ass beat by Nightwing you can see his knuckle imprints. Hell, he was once overwhelmed by Beast Boy...BEAST...BOY...
Did't nightwing pay him off once....no i really think that happen
TheMetalwolf77777 He did. Deathstroke was hired to kill a woman Dick needed alive to testify.
However since Deathstroke's only motivation for the kill was the contract Dick was able to stop him by paying one cent more then what the original guy payed for the kill.
It was actually kind of clever actually.
laz kar
I know he told them off in an issue of Young Justice when the Justice League went all super parent. Basically telling them, stop helicopter parenting.
It's also usually him or Alfred who chews Bruce out when Bruce makes a huge mistakes that ends up hurting people in the end.
laz kar
It's why Dick is my favorite hero honestly.
He's got the Batman skill set, but he's more open with his emotions and better at interacting with people then Bruce.
Oh yes i remember the mind-wiping bs... and the shit that got pulled off with catwoman, undermining her character development
Just read it. It's a compelling story and it would be even more if not written poorly. Certain parts are interesting, but the other ones are either shock value or bad writing. A few examples: Sue Dibny as a plot prop, gratuitous deaths (i.e. Tim Drake's father), subplots that are nothing to do with the main plot (i.e. Boomerang's son), Jean Loring' s nonsensical revelation, certain mature topics tackled in not a sensitive way (only to be edgy) and of course, some badly executed retcons. Excellent case, Linkara, excellent case.
Ok, I’m not against deathstroke messing with the lantern ring like that, but make him WORK for it. It takes absolutely all his concentration and he can only do it for a few seconds.
28:30 I was really hoping he would say “GRANNY GOODNESS”
Looks like this detective Linkara hired believes Felix Faust did it.
Casually using rape as a plot device: They might just as well have the writer kick the victim down the stairs after she served her purpose as he goes "Duurhnhur hur we mature 8D"
One of my lest favorite comics. I totally agree with the problems. From unnecessary rape that became a plot that didn't matter to killing Sue Dibney (who I always liked more then her husband) to stupidly making Atom's ex wife the villain. Which still years later makes no sense. Almost feels like they had no other idea as who should have been murderer. Oh hell they wasted Jean in time afterwords before killing her. Just stupid. Not mention they didn't just mind wiped Batman and Dr Light. They went after other villains like Catwoman and Piped Piper. Which ruined decades of character developmental and slap Mark Waid's run on flash. Firestorm was just killed so they can replace him with a new one and he was character that was well liked. Had long run of comics in 80s and they finally brought him back prop just few years later kill him. They seemingly killed Ted Kord just so they can introduce that stupid one Infinite Crisis. At least Teds death meant something.
+SuperMutant2099 Ted's death was actually well done and Jaime Reyes does work well as Blue Beetle. But assassinating Max Lord's character by having him be the guy that killed him was just fucking stupid along with everything else you listed.
They could’ve used Bito Wladion, aka Sonar, as a red herring. Sue singlehandedly stopped him twice from taking over Europe, so he would want her dead.
Lawlz Number 7 indeed being "Eww this was too unique a spin on the character, we gotta cut and paste!
The fact that you could leave out Jack Drake’s and Firestorm’s deaths in that quick summary shows just how needless they are
The only reason to drive characters apart is to bring them back together in a triumphant way, except dc is not that smart. In either comic form or their screened material.
you clearly don't read comics then.
Sorry, the only good reason. And yes I do read comics.
Lee Anderson DC Rebirth? DC is that smart, it seems.
Lee Anderson i disagree wholly . You have to do more research. You are generalizing there
And honestly I found great comedy stories far more mature dark and realistic then all these bad attempts to try to be that. As linkara stated it's like these writers only know how to make angst and nothing more than that. And if that's the case they really need to be forced out of their comfort zone because sooner or later they're going to be forced out of it!
The reason Drop Dead Fred is my favorite movie, aside from Rik Mayall's fantastic performance as the title character, is the way they handle Elizabeth's issues. The film treats Elizabeth's issues seriously, and is more about Elizabeth getting over the abuse of her overbearing mother and her dickish ex-husband than Drop Dead Fred's antics. The reason I brought this up is to show how you don't have to be dark and gritty in order to be mature. You can tackle difficult subjects, and tell an interesting story, while still being enjoyable. Identity Crisis is not like Drop Dead Fred. It's dark, disgusting, ugly, and not Mature in the slightest.
Still better than ASBAR, though.
Linkara gets let down by DC so often that sometimes it's surprising that he still considers them his favourite company.
In a That's All I'm Saying video I remember him talking about DC having his favorite roster of hero's.
Titans and by extension DC was his introduction to comics, so that explains a lot.
Buddy, NOBODY hates DC more than DC fans.
Markus Criticus
Amen.
I prefer DC more than Marvel, but that's because I grew up on old comics from the Silver Age. They're a disgusting shadow of their formal selves now
This shift is busier than usual and I'm tired, so I'll keep this comment brief for now, but I just wanted to say that I agree with you say here. Though I admire your neutral expressions in this video, I have to say I HATE, HATE *HATE* this comic. The horrible things done to Sue and Ralph, the shear exploitation of women's suffering, the moronic "mystery" structure, KILLING FIRESTORM, killing Captain Boomerang (my favorite Flash villain), killing Jack Drake, super-exagerated-maxi-extreme-ultra Deathstoke (something that stayed with the character for years after this)... so much to hate. I do, however, agree with your points on its strengths as well. The art is good, I do enjoy seeing the whole superhero community come together, I like the character of Owen Mercer (wish they'd had him become a hero) and I particularly love the exchange between Firehawk and Green Arrow towards the beginning. It had good character moments, I suppose.
Even making Jean Loring a villain wasn't the worst thing: she had already had two bouts of insanity (admittedly, caused by aliens) in the 60's and 70's, and her cheating on Ray in the mid-80's really tarnished her character. I think there could have been a genuinely good character evolution here if it focused more on her mental illness (in a serious way), how that doesn't excuse being a crappy person, how it affects others, and how sometimes it's best to move on (I'm speaking as a medical professional whose family has also dealt with real-life mental illnesses). There could have been a lot of competent thought and analysis done on relationships and how superheroes affect families. But whatever, that's something somebody else will eventually be able to explore well. Hopefully.
As far as the mindwiping goes, that incident with the Secret Society was not the first time it was hinted at, or outright shown, in the Pre-Crisis continuity. In Action Comics #247, Superman hypnotized an elderly criminal couple who had discovered his secret identity by impersonating the Kents (long story).
I think the most egregious example, however, is from Earth-148. In World's Finest Comics #148, Superman and Batman visit a world where Lex Luthor and Clayface are great superheroes, and Batman and Superman are supervillains. Batman and Superman can't abide by this, so not only do they help defeat their villainous counterparts, but also "rewrite" their minds to make them heroes, feeling they had a right to that since they were technically the same person. That story has not sat well with since that day, and I actually think it's kind of hilarious that Silver Age, Pre-Crisis Batman was perfectly alright with that, wheras Post-Crisis Batman was absolutely against the idea.
I grew up in the Silver Age, love the Bronze Age and will always prefer Pre to Post Crisis. But I readily admit there were many stories and ideas that were better left to the passage of time.
However, as somebody who is from and loves the era this comic claims to be a tribute to, I can absolutely say this story sucks. It fails in any way to capture the spirit of those comics, for good or bad, and just makes all the worse for it's unseemly commentary on issues as sensitive as bodily exploitation and traumatic violation of autonomy (I'm sorry, I have no idea what the TH-cam rules are for the r-word in comments), or mental illness. It is a depressing, albeit beautifully illustrated story that I personally think would have served better was an Elseworlds story, or just a blip.
At least, like you always said, Lewis, good writers can tell good stories from bad ones. Many writers were able to make good stories from these events, so in the end, that's the best possible commentary it gives about personal trauma: life can always go on if you let it.
I guess I had more time than I thought for this comment. Thank you once again for your patience and inciteful commentary!
That panel you keep showing of the Justice League all posed and smiling reminds me of one other specific, and rather well known, comic where a similar picture of better times is used ironically in a similar manner. In other words, Identity Crisis thinks it is the Watchmen, doesn't it?
Yes sir. They got characters dying, heroes mistrusting each other, rape, and a mystery about a superhero who gets killed where the killer stages an attack on himself to fool everyone.
Deathstroke disabling Kyle's ring via his own will has precedence: Aquaman did the same thing when the Brain stole Hal Jordon's arm (long story) to use his ring way back in _JLA: Year One_ by Mark Waid. Great story. A+ material.
wdcain1 I guess the whole borrowed arm thing makes a difference, doesn't it?
Depends on the writer. During the _JLA Foreign Bodies_ one-shot where the Kobra Cult switches all the brains of the League members around and Steel can't use Kyle's ring because he said there were safeguards installed. The only way they were able to workaround this was by using the J'onn J'onnz telepathy to create a link so Steel could use the ring. Like I said, depends on the writer so that's why I'm a bit easier on mistakes.
Hold on you dont just drop the fact that the brain stole Hal's arm and leave.
What is the context?
this whole series makes an episode of Teen Titans where Dr Light kidnaps a young girl, JUST FUCKING WRONG!!!!!!!
+Andrew-V/Ellnats In defense for Teen Titans, Dr Light wasn't a rapist in that series... thank god for that!
true but fans will try their hardest to make that happen
FUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
+laz kar To quote the Cinema Snob, "You're complaining about things the villain did."
okay yeah good point
I still don't get why Jean wanted to scare Sue to come back with Ray Palmer. There a story between the three that I don't know?
Firestorm's death made me cry. This entire BOOK made me cry. I loved it, but it also taught me to hate Fridging characters more than ever, like, this was the LAST time it had impact. This book taught me more about fridging than the ACTUAL FRIDGE DEATH COMIC!
In high school, as part of a reading class we read "The Kite Runner." _That_ book portrayed rape in a very mature and respectable way. It's a plot point, it shows how it affected everyone, _including_ the victim, and it didn't come _completely_ out of nowhere. It wasn't used for shock, to be "edgy," nor be dark and gritty for the sake of being dark and gritty. Keep in mind, I read this in _high school,_ and yet I _still_ see stories that use rape poorly despite being for adults! Heck, my classmate's story that I read in Writing Fiction weeks ago was more respectable to the topic than this!
I hear the new Heroes in Crisis story is being really grim dark too. It seems like if you see the word “Crisis” in a DC crossover series, you should stay away.
This comic is the definition of “But why? Bracket is no mad dog killer, he is after something”
With how convoluted that mystery was, you might as well say it was Col. Mustard in the library with a candle stick.
Two things
One: if want something that is an actual love letter to the silver age with DC characters, go watch Batman: the Brave and the Bold.
Two: if you want an actually better DC Comics murder mystery story that is 100 times better than Identity Crisis, and that the true murderer is not an idiot who just wants to get back together with someone by a murder just for the sake of the story being a dark and depressing story, go read Batman: Long Halloween.
I read and watch both of those stories and I have not read this story.
Okay having re-read Identity Crisis the only way I can see for Jean to have been able to pull all this off is if Ray Palmer knew what she was planning to do, confronted her, and that's what led to Sue's death, and he was trying to cover it up, until he finally knew she'd lost her mind, and was guilt ridden over the role he played hence why he fled into the Multiverse
It's things like Identity Crisis wiping Batman's mind that make me wonder why they were all so uppity about Tower of Babel? I know Identiy Crisis was released after Tower of Babel, but as said in the video, retcons put past stories in a whole new light.
Because one was set on fire why the other one just got a short amnesia? Also even more contrasting the heroes brainwash people wasn't leaked unlike the here how to incapacitate and kill leaguers
Okay, now whenever I watch a Millar Time episode of Atop the Fourth Wall, I think of a little 13 year old Linkara on Christmas morning opening his presents and getting an awesome pocket watch.
Yay for good retcons!!! (Even though that was an actual thing that happened.)
“AND THEY DONT FIND A DAMN THING”
Confession time, for anyone willing to read it.
I have a series that I make on DeviantArt. Nothing special, and mostly just knock-offs of what have already been done before. However, in January 2017, I made a short story of my main protagonist (a female named Athena) being sexually assaulted by a female super villain. What was the purpose? I wanted to show that my protagonist suffers trauma from that, since a backstory I made for her involves being raped as a child, which inadvertently awoke her powers and she slaughtered her rapist. In the story in question, Athena suffers trauma by becoming a sadistic vigilante and either maiming or slaughtering rapists and other criminals, and ultimately is on the verge of murdering her rapist after a brutal beating. that is until her son (male genetic clone) interferes and begs her to stop, which she eventually does. Afterwards, i never explore the psyche of Athena, and instead I "Mary Sue" her into overcoming her trauma, and her molester now lives in fear of Athena.
Why am I telling the people this? Because I now realize how I botched it up. I made that story because I thought rape was the "nuclear warhead" of drama devices, and I wanted to Mary Sue my main protagonist. (Can Mary Sue be used as a verb?)
Anyways, suffice to say that I was dumb. I thought it would be COMPELLING DRAMA and crap like that, but the thing is... I don't know what I'm writing, much less how I'm going to explore what I have written. Quite frankly, I could have done things differently. No one who read it hates that story or anything, but I'm starting to be uncomfortable with it myself...But I'm not taking it down. I have written it and posted it on the internet, and so it's there forever, for better or worse.
I've recently "rebooted" my series, starting from the beginning and making new (knock-off) stories, and I'm exploring new ideas to my series, or ideas that have existed that I have yet explore. And you can count on me to keep rape out of the new picture. Sure, I'll have some bad guys threaten other characters with rape, but for some reason I have this obsession with castration of rapists. However, I'll try to keep that to a minimum at worst, and a rarity at best.
As for actual rape itself, I won't ever bring it into my stories, since quite frankly I don't know squat about how to handle such a subject with the care it demands.
Anyways, that's it. Hopefully I've learned from my mistakes and I won't repeat it. Good day to you all.
abridgedfan100 I would like to see it, at my own risk, where’s the link?
+abridgedfan100
Good luck on that! Hopefully you can make something better.
Well, good for you, pall. Your tale shows that, if you aknowledge you own flaws, you can see where you did wrong and learn from the experience.
Something I doubt the higher ups in the comic book industry can do.
I love the thumbnail image of the AT4W characters costumes arranged in a manner similar to the Identiy Crisis cover. That would make a really cool poster.
When everyone is a basic-ass Batfanboy who has never picked up a damned comicbook without "Bat" in the title in their lives, THAT is how you get these stories, and then the present day scenario where a bunch of edgy dudes really think DC is the "dark and mature" universe. DC is the home of the larger than life, prototypical, idealistic, hopeful superhero. DC are superheroes that Marvel's heroes would look up to if they read about them. Not some edgy cringelords ripping off old Judge Dredd villains (looking at you "BaTMaN wHO laUGhs") or arriving 15 years late to the Zombie fad.
I feel great DC stories take heroes to dark places so that they can overcome darkness and get into the light. Personal triumphs like that make DC heroes worth looking up to.
This is one of those reviews I come back to from time to time. I love the ones where Linkara is truly passionate about how bad a comic is and the DC heroes really seem to be the ones he's most passionate about. The whole thing was a misstep from the start. First there's the very idea of a locked room mystery in the DCU. Magic, aliens, teleportation, and time travel are all things that everyone knows exist. The fact that no one can tell a chemical fire from an energy blast is one thing. However, the fact that it was a flamethrower would in no way exonerate Doctor Light. Just because he HAS energy powers doesn't mean he has to USE them. The fact that Sue's murderer apparently didn't want to be identified could indicate they'd use something other than their normal M.O.
Then there's the whole problem with Sue Dibny as the chosen victim, BOTH TIMES. She's the publicly known wife of a publicly known superhero. Ralph has no secret identity AND he actually seeks attention and publicity. Why would the heroes believe Dr. Light's boast about finding their loved ones and raping them too? He has/ had no special insight into their identities. He raped Sue (again publicly known wife of publicly known hero) WHILE SHE WAS ON THE JLA SATELLITE!!! She just happened to be there when he invaded. He wasn't even looking for her and there wasn't anything to indicate he could have found their home or wanted to. Yet, they're willing to cross a moral event horizon when there's no indication Light knows anything AND don't consult with Sue and Ralph about how THEY want to handle the crime.
9:28 sounds like EVERY BAT FAN EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I think part of the reasoning behind making Dr Light a bumbling villain was the popularity of the teen titans animated series at the time. He was never treated as a series villain in that. And since they felt they needed a joke char to make dangerous the imported the animated version and made him rapey