fr the only reason people say he beats characters who are not on his level like sanji is jus bc he's cool but in terms of power he isn't as strong as we think he is now
To my knowledge Monster Point Chopper had never taken a loss prior to Big Mom. We were never told the exact strength of Monster Point, so it's totally plausible that he could scrap with Queen. I think the main problem was that although he was extremely powerful in terms of raw power he was slow, and couldn't control it pre time-skip.
The katakuri disrespect is crazy bro, if you wanna powerscale feats cool but when it comes down to it narratively speaking you cannot tell me that katakuri a first commander loses to anyone of tobbiropo. That just legitimately makes no sense
literally 90% of the people fighting in wano haven't shown their full power before so how is it a power up ?? its a power reveal for most of them and the ones who got a power ups are the monster trio and law which was needed and made since law knew he needed to get ready for a yonko fight after doffy and gaining an awakening isn't crazy for someone who mastered his df like him and luffy is the mc who has a lot of potential and great understanding of haki his power ups makes since and are needed and both zoro and sanji got their power ups naturally one got a stronger sword and the other awakened his germa DNA and fairy tail is a power of friendship amp its not the same its literally going against someone a 100 times stronger than u then u get a vision of your friends that gives them a 200 times amp which goes away after the fight lmao its not the same at all
My problem with Oda atm is why was it so hard to not gice the other strawhats Haki? Haki isnt special anymore, atleast at this level. The fact Robin, Franky, Chopper, and Nami aren't confirmed to be using haki at this point in the story is absolutely absurd. And Ussop is worse, he has haki but rarely uses it😂 wtf oda?
the crew werent meant to all be fighters some didnt even train physically and also who was gonna teach them haki only robin had people who can teach her haki and she ended up with a version of haki taught by sabo and koala the others got power ups that fits them more the only problem is usopp he still didn't learn how to use observation but he unlocked it in dreasrosa I'm fine with that as long as he learns it in elbaf because u cant just use haki out of nowhere u have to train it usopp in dreasrosa just unconsciously used it in dreasrosa
You seem to have one piece misunderstood. It’s not an anime that mainly focuses on fighting like dragonball where one person gets super saiyan and then every one else gets it. Oda has other aspects to focus on, like the story and character writing. Most of the straw hats aren’t natural born fighters like Luffy Zoro and Sanji are, so they won’t be as proficient with haki as they would. Learning haki would most likely be too hard/take too much time/ or it just wouldn’t be in their character to learn haki. The story wouldn’t be interesting if they just gave everyone advanced haki and they automatically win every fight
@@PlushiePirate shut up. I never said they should get ADVANCE HAKI, stop fabricating arguments to disprove. I'll concede that Chopper, Nami, and Robin don't need to know how to use Haki, but Ussop should 100% be the observation master of the crew. I'm not saying he should have future sight, but he should have the farthest reaching observation of the crew, but he does nothing. Haki is not the Super Saiyan transformation, that's such a terrible comparison. Not every Z fighter is a Saiyan, but EVERY strawhat can learn Haki.
@@DirtyBobBojangles Observation is used more defensively rather than for accuracy. Usopp is still the best sniper on the crew regardless, it’s just the the monster trio have stronger observation haki cause it benefits them more in fights. Also I’m pretty sure Usopp doesn’t even know what Haki is, or atleast he doesn’t have an understanding of it like the monster trio does.
The powerclifing in Wano is so crazy that even People like kinemon who are Fodders compare to the top tiers like kaido can beat Characters like Smoothie and Cracker who were supposed to be Yc2 and 3 of the big mom Pirates
I mean Neko and inu were tied with a 3rd commander and needed the sulong power up to beat him and perospero. And they're the strongest scabbards so could fucking kinemon really beat them😂yeah they have ryou but in the grand scheme of things theyre still kinda weak.
Narratively perospero(not even a sweet commander) is shown to be on the same level as jack seeing as they both got mid diffed by the minks so unless you have perospero>kat this comment makes no sense
“Narratively perospero(not even a sweet commander) is shown to be on the same level as jack” He really isn’t; Jack was already heavily wounded when he got beaten by a Sulong Inu, while even before Neko went Sulong he was already strong enough to put a relatively healthy Perospero on the backfoot.
The issue is that people like yourself think everybody is fodder, and you need to define what fodder actually is. Fodder to me is the random low-ranked marines by the thousands. Kinemon isn't Fodder, he's just goofy. He's at least 3rd Yonko Commander. Seems to me that people think fodder means under Admiral level, which makes no sense.
Kinemon like most of the scabbards had everything to lose, the more you have to lose the the stronger your resolve as your resolve grows the stronger your will does as your will grows because of what you have to fight for to keep, especially if their are personal stakes at play... Then you get Kinemon survive Kaido's thunder bagua, because he can't afford to die right now, add the fact that he was still split from law since never put him back properly....then you get him tanking that thunder bagua. People sleep on kinemon but people need to realize this was at the time their arc and story, their personal history and personal stakes are what mattered here. And look they got help from an outside force but that doesn't diminish what was their current tale!
I think the power creep is overblown. People are just realising the most powerful characters just aren't as untouchable as they once seemed. If Oda wants characters to be capable, he makes it so. Like Crocodile in Marineford. People now would call him fodder based on how they perceive his strength but he was still useful in that battle. Granted it isn't perfectly balanced, some power ups are deus ex machina and and sometimes characters are handicapped for no given reason.
@@DeBean970bro Nami low-key stronger then every warlord (except mihawk) at the beginning of the series and would would whoop Katakuri the strongest member of a yonko crew I don't care how overblown power creep is in your eyes this does not make sense
In fairness to Franky, Egghead is showing us that tech *can* make some major differences in power Robin also reveals she’s been training Fishman Karate and awakened (?) her fruit (we still don’t know wtf Demonio is)
@@SuperiorIronMan0 you can’t prove to me definitively that it isn’t, I can’t prove definitively that it is…..but I’m sure we could give pretty good reasoning for each Which is why I added the “(?)”
@@siddhantchauhan1975 I don’t think so tbh….comparing the panel to other panels of armament Haki, it looks like Demonio is a lighter color with dark shadows rather than the dark color with shine
Saying the Queen is stronger than Kat cause he caught a half-assed punch from base Luffy is fucking wild, but definitely par for the course in this fandom lmao.
Keep in mind chopper is not set a condition in terms of where his strength stacks up with the rest of the crew unlike Usopp who Oda stated before he wants to remain the weakest strawhat, so Chopper was never the weakest strawhat if Usopp is already established to be in that position no matter what happens to the strawhat crew
I think the problem of the Power Creep is due to Imu. When Oda introduced us Imu, i think it set up a stage here. Any enemy that Luffy will fight is going to be weaker than Imu. Because Imu is the man that killed Joyboy. And i highly believe Joyboy was so OP he used his ability to encase Wano. He stretched the land around Wano to create a Wall. This is the problem. Oda is trying to show us that the Legends of the Past were capable of feats the current Legends cant even fathom. But the main villain of the series is a Legend from the Past, so this means he has no choice but to exponentially grow Luffy's abilities. I think Joyboy and Imu are the main reason for the Power Creep. These 2 characters were so Powerful that its ridiculous the level of power they have. So Oda has no choice but to give Joyboy's full skillset to Luffy as fast as possible.
@@user-on1qc5gg9t Oda has the Sun God Nika ability as a trump card. In fact the way Toei animation did it, show us that Luffy when in Nika Stage can somehow hear the dreams and wishes of his allies, and that makes him stronger. But i also believe that the Nika Fruit passively makes Luffy's allies stronger. Zoro did mention to Usopp once that Usopp may not have noticed, but they become stronger after each island they visit. Sure they train. But i highly believe the Nika Fruit exponentially increases their growth. Specially because they are Luffy's crew, and they believe in him to the point of putting their life on the line. Whenever a Straw Hat states that Luffy will become Pirate King, the Nika Fruit probably boosts their strength. Its like a constant hidden buff. Things generally go Luffy's way. And luck is also on his side. Those are all side effects of the Nika Fruit. It is the most ridiculous power in the world.
One of my least favorite thing about Wano is that we saw nothing from Ussop. Like u said, Nami got Zeus, and Chopper damaged Queen, but we didn’t see anything from him, even though in dressrosa he could’ve arguably been the strongest of the trio.
6:20 for Chopper he literally did that though, he explained why he can use monster point so effectively thanks to Ceasar. And regardless have we really seen most of the strawhats go all out prior to Wano? Maybe Franky and Brook against big mom but thats pretty much it and Franky didn't even use General Franky and probably got stronger after his fight with Senor Pink. Namis power jump was mostly just Zeus lol.
@@lusakomanda4235 100% not, toxic recency bias!!!! Its like saying Bonney can beat Hancock just because we saw her more recently. You lost your mind completly!!!
@@arturw5556Katakuri would get one shot because Gear 5 is above base Kaido which one shot a gear 4th form more durable than Snake- Man. But at least Lucci didnt and could clash with Gear 5 Luffy which is something Katakuri wouldn't be able to do. Hence why he outscales Katakuri.
Ulti isn't the weakest tobiroppo, she's the strongest or the second strongest just behind who's who. And nami just could beat her because she was already with 1 HP because of big mom's combined attack
Also for this whole thing remember X Drake matched post udon Luffy. We talking the same Ulti who’s relative to X Drake? Who Jack says even near death the tobiroppo can’t beat the scabbards. After getting dogwalked by Kaido Izo kills a Cp0 member and injured another one, in a 2v1. X Drake with the help of Apoo and giants got cooked in a 2v4 against Cp0. X Drake even healed snuck up on the Cp0 agent and got blitzed by him. Izo>Ulti with Ulti being relative to X Drake. Nekomamushi got bullied by Perospero before Sulong. The same Nemomamushi who’s above Izo. Which means Perospero>tobiroppo. Also has relative portrayal to Jack. Cracker is stronger than Perospero. Which would put him over Jack. Smoothie is stronger than Cracker. Ap wise G4 Luffy in WCI made Big Mom use armament to block his attack. Let me repeat that Big Mom thought it was necessary to use armament against G4 WCI Luffy. Unless you think the tobiroppo durability and even queen durability>big mom. Then Katakuri> queen and the flying 6 Ap wise. Which also means Katakuri can damage the top commanders of the beast pirates. You know how Persopero is stronger than X Drake. Well that same X Drake is going bar for bar with a post udon g4 Luffy attack wise. Perospero>that X Drake which in turn puts the rest of the sweet generals>tobiroppo So with all that being said King> Katakuri> Queen= Smoothie>Cracker> Jack=Perospero> Cat Viper> XDrake and Ulti
G4 luffy making big mom use armament doesn’t scale him anywhere, and it DEFINITELY doesn’t scale katakuri anywhere Anyway, considering how badly kat took not only a base wci luffy’s kick BEFORE growing in battle, but also a wci g4 boundman luffy’s hit, it’s not outrageous to say in pure power, wci boundman > katakuri Also, no clue how you got kat above queen
@@immortalRob8791 Nah on the WCI Boundman, Kat's CoA directly outclassed Luffy in power directly. Kat completely outclassed Luffy in every category at the start of their fight.
I think a lot of people overestimate Ulti's power and overestimate the statement Kaido made about Jack and Doflammingo. Yes, Ulti hurt base Luffy. Does that mean she is stronger than Katakuri? I dont think so. Luffy could have beaten her in base form. She was no threat. And with Kaido.. Of course he is going to call is own subordinate strong because he respect his (strong) subordinates. Doflammingo was a trading partner who lost. So he is going to call him weak... When certain characters clash and make statements.. that does not automatically reveal the exact power scaling in the verse. Another example from Egghead: Luffy clashed in gear 5 with luccy. the clash was only for showcase. next chapter luffy clapped luccy.. so i would take certain clashes or statements too seriously
Ulti walked off a a Thunder Bagua from Yamato, who at the very least scales to Jimbei and Zoro, a Thunderbolt Tempo, and a Maser Canon from Big Mom, who was able to temporarly knock-out Queen with a simple punch, before a Zeus enchanced Thunderbolt took her out. I'd actually say people underestimate her. She easily had the best showing of the Tobiroppo, most of whom were taken out by the non-combat specialists Strawhats.
@@Verebazssomething that is ignored at times is that endurance and power are not a 1 to 1 relation in most cases. Ulti is extremely resilient, but her attack power may not be nearly as impressive as her defensive power. Ulti could be the weakest Tobi Roppo offensively and still be the most resilient out of them all. The type of linear scaling used in this video is prone to a lot of logic leaps that at times make no sense but considering the limitations of power scaling in general, it is to be expected.
@@imatiu Oh yeah, because Black Maria had impressive offensive feats...wait she didn't. She just wrecked the castle around herself. Sasaki was also such an unstoppable steamengine....oh wait Franky Shogun easily slapped him around. Whos-Who broke Armament Haki infused his finger-guns on Jimbei's own Armament Haki. Page-5 couldn't even touch Sanji. X-Drake and Ulti were the only ones who had any sort of offensive feat to brag about. Although I do agree power-scaling is kind of stupid in general.
You really can't make an argument for any Tobiroppo beating Katakuri when we see Perospero being displayed in a relative manner to Jack (stated stronger than every Tobiroppo) and Katakuri is ranked above Peros
Perosperos isn't relative to jack, Both of those fights were amongst characters that were severely weakened so it's unfair to really judge their power at that moment
Claiming that Ulti is probably stronger than doflamingo is crazy. Luffy uses g4 all the time in the raid even when they destroyed that boat. He doesn't need it to defeat her at all.
@rosaeruber225 No, he did not, lmfao all he did was say he was going into gear fourth. It is in no way required, unless you believe base Luffy truly is that weak, which was proven objectively false.
In my opinion the only in your face power creep that One Piece had was Kaido. Gear 4 was already able to damage Katakuri but future sight made it impossible to tag him that's why Luffy had to grow his observation haki Katakuri's durability is no way closer to that of Cracker's hax. Luffy himself pointed it out when Katakuri lost his composure he said I quote:" So you can get hurt". People sometimes ignore how a match up can be disadvantageous because of hax(Nami being a prime example) . We can come up with a strategy on how Katakuri could defeat Ulti however if she manages to catch him offguard pin him down and headbutt him to death it's gg. It's more so about fighting to your advantages until monsters of durability like Kaido and King(lunarian) show up.
3:37 Page One: I'm a joke to you? Ulti is actually on the Top 5 of Beast Pirates based on feats, more especifically, durability feats. I think she is the second strongest after Who's who. But she couldn't shine because all her fights where shit.
The most Insane power creep is gonna be Koby. If he ever fights Luffy again and it’s anything more then a No Diff Luffy W. That’ll be one of the few times Oda shows a lack of building and power scaling.
Stop reading if you are not caught up to the manga. I mean, Coby just displayed a big ass attack with Advanced CoC. If Luffy can become stronger than his gear 4 in base within like an hour, it won't be surprising for Coby to be a Low-Mid Diff for Luffy.
@@yaknowdis8668 Currently waiting for 1091. Seen how Luffy was talking to Saturn last chapter ? 😭 What a fucking Dawg !! Next chapter gonna be 🔥 I hope, I seen what Koby did and didn’t like it then and still don’t. He has 0 feats fr but he’ll somehow keep up with Luffy ? Even in Gear 5 😅 Just from… Training lol Doesn’t sit right with me. That’s like Helmeppo going toe to toe with Mihawk. You would question it I’d hope ? That’s Luffy Vs Koby.
@@yaknowdis8668 There isn’t one reason Koby should be anywhere near Luffy other then Narrative and it being “cool to see”. Like feel free to tell me how many Warlords Koby took out ?? Or Yonko ? Last time he pulled up to a Warlord island he got kidnapped 😭 It’s not even close but it’ll probably happen smh
@@jojobravo3829 Dawg, he didn"t even fight Boa nor BB. Not saying he woulda won against a yonko, but he allowed himself to be captured. If Garp grew to be Roger's level, then his desciple is gonna be strong.
I see when ty said: the powercreep comes from katakuri losing to luffy who gets one shotted by kaido. It's not the first time we see this in one piece. Oda's incosistency with the powerscaling makes people start questioning between narrative and feats.
Luffy didn’t cleanly beat Katakuri, he left the fight once Gear 4 wore out and likely would have lost if Katakuri didn’t injure choose to injure himself as well. At that point it was debatable whether or not he was cleanly above Katakuri, the same way people fell like it’s debatable whether or not he’s above Kaidou. Luffy getting one-shot by Kaidou was also because he recklessly charged at him. Seeing Shanks one-shot Kidd & Killer should tell you that if your guard is down and a Yonkou gets a clean hit, they can take you out.
I can't wait to see Akainu approach the Sunny and casually explode a massive mountain in the background. "Yeah, I could have oneshotted Kaido this whole time."
@@Archonus Yeah I agree it is funny but its also an issue because itll create a situatuation where it looks like the entire arc of marineford seems pointless cause any one of the admirals could have one shoted whitebeard (due to pwerclifing not narrative). Marineford was hype they brought in every asset the navy had at their dispossal just for whitebeard now well just look dumb for bieng hyped about that arc even though in terms of narratve whitebeard was tthe strongest in the world powerclifing will contradict that.
Katakuri no diffs every Tobi Roppo, low diffs Jack, mid diffs Queen, and arguably extreme diffs King. He's so "power cliffed" that Kaido reveals he has future sight in the 9th inning of his fight as the ace up his sleeve, and Shanks also gets revealed as a proficient user. Scaling Katakuri to Tobi Roppo level is objectively wrong, since Perospero is scaled to Jack, who's above all the Tobi Roppo, meaning you're claiming that Katakuri is weaker than Perospero lmao.
nah chopper power creep is normal so is nico robins. you got to remember that choppers monster point is mimicking awakened zoan. As seen from pigeon guy and the prison guards the diffrence in awakened zoans who can control their power by staying sane and those who go insane is massive. and chopper littearly doubled his monster point time since fishmen island. As for nico robins she has never actually used her devil fruit to the full potential and only recently used mega sized nico robin clones and even added karate to the mix.
The problem is people are scaling one piece like its dragon ball were essentially anyone can beat villains goku has fought in exactly the same way See if its katakuri vs king the battle would be completely different because of abilities, fighting style, morales and goals even though king will win the battle still wont be in the same manner as zoro vs king The battles in one piece arent like dragon ball How the battle is fought and won will completely depend on the people fighting And people dont seem seem to realize that almost every one piece character has their own way if fighting if gear 4 luffy challenged sanji to a leg clash who would win its sanji its the same with luffy vs ulti Luffy challenged her in what shes most proficient at
That's one of my main grievances with power scaling in general. People think everything scales like Dragon Ball. For example: AP must scale to durability and speed, or character A must be two times stronger than character B because character A couldn't hurt him. You know how in DBZ, being two times stronger is enough to pretty much makes you invulnerable? People apply the same logic to other anime. In anime like One Piece, even an attack that's 20 times weaker than you might knock you back or make you bleed but won't do any significant damage, you don't necessarily tank everything that's weaker than you. Something like saying anyone who can damage Kaido is stronger than Gear 4 in his first fight with Kaido is valid though.
Yes and no if a character in his base form is objectively preforming feats better than there most powerful form than there has been a massive jump in stats. King and Kat would be close if not for the scene with Kaido and gear 4 luffy, it makes Kat look worse because king does way better against characters stronger than gear 4 luffy post WCI. If king and Kat were relative than yeah powers and hax would matter but going of feats alone king is far better and if you add in narrative than it’s more even
@@bullettime1116 okay? Going off narrative king and Kat should be relative but if you only go off feats a showings Kat just does not stack up in the later half of Wano. G4 bound man getting one shot by Kaido makes Kat look so bad in the grand scheme of things. Even things like future sight can be by passed by being faster than the user Kaido does this to a stronger luffy during their fight. Haxs can only last so long on a fight if the stats gap is huge
@@FlawlessWallace3350 it isn't dragon ball, it doenst work that way, and I'm done arguing about it. If one piece was like dragon ball I would've stopped watching a long time ago. Power sclaers ruin literally every community they belong to
One issue is that you look at it in a "power level" way. Just the fact that the characters have grown in between East Blue and Enies Lobby for example doesn't necessarily mean that Zoro went from 100 to 1000 and Luffy from 1000 to 2000, it simply means that they've all grown stronger by steadily improving in a more "realistic way". Sanji did increase in terms of combat skill and strength over those passing arcs, but that doesn't mean that Bon Kurey is twice as strong as Arlong's fishman Karate practitioner and that Jabra was twice as strong as Bon Kurey. Their opponents were clearly stronger with each arc, but not by astronomical levels. This can also explain the Chopper issue. We never got to see how strong Monster point actually was. He easily destroyed Kumadori and easily defeated fishmen, but we never got to see him go 1vs 1 against a really strong guy to determine what his actual limits were. Also haki blooming, again, it wasn't stated that a character grows twice or ten times stronger, maybe it's just a stady growth that could stop at 1% or 5% or 10%. Even Luffy managing to stop Kaido in base is not because his body or haki were now so much stronger than they were in Gear 4 a few minutes ago, it's simply because he was finally able to use the advanced haki efficiently and now it was more effective. One thing that really annoys me though, is that it's confirmed by Kaido that Doflamingo is "weak". Considering that his bounty was almost 400 mill YEARS AGO when it was taken out by the government, means that he could have been considered a much more serious threat during Dressrosa. Not to mention that bounties are not about strength, but danger level, so they could have said that Queen's bounty wasn't so big because he was close to King, but because he can recreate deadly disease and use them as war weapons.
Ngl i think brook is the biggest culprit of this, he was struggling with zombie ryuma on thriller bark, but suddenly after spending two years on tour he's become a really reliable fighter
Post wci gear4 luffy who got one shotted wasn’t in his calm state due to him seeing his whole crew basically getting blasted off by kaido so dude wasn’t in same level as the best luffy that fought kat (can’t use future sight if you’re not calm, maybe even the normal observation)
love someone from this fanbase actually uses his brain for once even adding to this the fact that luffy didn't even beat kata with snake man because he still stood up in fact katakuris worst injury was stabbing himself and his not a durable beast like luffy so that made him lose if they both never were stabbed luffy would've lost the fight even with snake man
Once Katakuri makes a return he will prove he’s gotten stronger which imo wouldn’t make an ounce of sense unless he’s had a high-extreme diff fight since fighting luffy
@@vegetacultminorityhunteronly thing I’ll give is AP when kat isn’t using the spear and durability but kat is 10x smarter, has future sight, range, and hax over ulti
@@idontusecolgate he didn't ask his fans to scale him did he? He didn't bitcy out from anything neither did he trash talk anyone he jut went out with honor and you call him a fraud
i think people overthinking it. The power difference between characters like Katakuri and Queen not in multiples. They are about the same. That just means that Luffy didnt grow as much as we think he did and the powelevel doesnt rise exponentialy.
Wano has no crazy power cliffing imo (at least not with Luffy, Law is a different story. Idk when he got so strong). People simply misunderstand the nature of Luffy's level up in Wano. That Ulti take is a giveaway that you are getting it wrong... Early Wano Luffy could have probably wrecked most of the Beast Pirates 1v1. If Sanji had been kidnapped by the Beast Pirates instead of the BM pirates, Luffy would have snuck up in there, and kicked some zoan ass. He could have certainly destroyed any Tobi Roppo, and with the same lenience he was afforded in WCI of fleeing fights vs commanders when needed (as he did vs Cracker and Katakuri ), he could have beaten at least Jack and Queen by pushing himself a little. Beasts are Luffy's area of expertise. He designed G4 specifically to be able to punch the shit out of very strong beasts. He would have had a blast on Wano, as long as he could use Gear 4. King might have been too much due to his insane dura, but Luffy being Luffy, he would probably find a goofy way to hit him flame off and have a CoA haki bloom (he'd probably learn ryuo). He would have come up with Rhinoman instead of Snakeman, and ryuo gatlinged the shit out of him. Zoro's ACoC folded King in three hits. I believe Luffy has stronger haki than Zoro overall, so his ryuo is not too far below Zoro's ACoC in destructive capability. Damage accumulates. If Luffy could hit King with like fifty or so ryuo punches, like say a Red Roc gatling, or Kong Gatling with ryuo, I'm sure King would be wrecked. Then, Luffy would have to flee before Kaido, like he fled before Big Mom, cause he wasn't there strength wise just yet. People act like Luffy couldn't have kicked ass on Wano, cause he got ridiculed by big boss Kaido. Kaido was HIM. His subordinates are nowhere near his strength, save maybe King in terms of durability. A serious base Kaido probably folds King mid diff. If you assume Luffy got like 10 times stronger in every stat after Udon then yeah, the power cliff looks crazy. Here's a better way to look at what happened on Wano, in my opinion : Luffy was already able to beat up almost everyone, save for the two Yonkou on Wano, and maybe King (he would have needed a haki bloom, like against Katakuri). So he had to level up. He boosted his resistance by training with sea stone on, a substance that naturally weakens him. And then, he learned a trick, a more lethal way to use haki, which allows him to bypass Kaido and Big Mom's insane body toughness. That's it. He didn't get "exponentially stronger". He toughened up a bit in jail (jail would do that 😏) cause of course he trained his body under harsh conditions...but mostly, he learned a new trick, that allows him to do internal damage, or parry stronger blows than he couldn't before. And that's enough to make a huge difference in the way a fight looks. No, save for ryuo and its internal damage, Luffy didn't come out of Udon stronger in base than he was previously with G4 transformations. When he fought Ulti, he was only using his old bag of tricks, basic armament coating, with his slightly tougher base body. He kept the good stuff for rooftop. And yet, Ulti in her strongest form (hybrid) couldn't harm that repressed Luffy using base form and basic CoA. Without ryuo, that base Luffy was nowhere near prior G4 power levels, just a bit more resistant. So when he said he wanted to use G4, that's a G4 only a bit tougher than before thanks to the jail buff up. Not a crazy gap with the Luffy that couldn't do shit to Kaido. Had he decided to use ryuo, he could have packed Ulti in base, cause ryuo hits different, and is more lethal. When you look at it this way, it all makes sense. You realize how the Big Mom Pirates can be relative to the Beast Pirates, and only the Captains are far higher than the rest. P.S.: Red Roc is not base Luffy, it's G3 + ryuo, with even hints of G2 Red Hawk.
@@AmondraLive I like to make the following analogy : - base form = skinny teenager form - training in Udon = hitting the gym for a month - G4 transformation = getting a wrestler's body and strength, for 10 minutes - ryuo = getting a bowie knife - ACoC = getting a jackhammer That analogy even explains why he still relies on G4 to do more damage with ryuo or ACoC.
@@ale3for913 the ACoA stackup was mostly him learning ryuo, and in my analogy, that corresponds to him getting a bowie knife. The 1 month at the gym was abt resistance boost, he trained with sea stone on, his natural weakness.
I feel this is the most comprehensive analogy and analysis of how Luffy's level ups worked going from WCI to Wano. He leveled up but moreso in the fact he gained new tools rather than new strength. Ryou and Aconq are tools he gained from learning how they work and training in prison. Additions to his Kit that help him in situations where his base strength doesn't cut it. G2-4 are the actual powerups since they directly affect Luffy's stats while Acoa and Conqs are augments to those strengths. G5 further increases his strength and his resistance and versatility but I believe, not by much, moreso that it adds a *debuff* to whoever he's fighting against since they are now directly affected by his abilities and can be physically manipulated by him. And it's for that reason why we see Luffy in Egghead clap Lucci w/o using Haki. Cause he doesn't need to. His base strength esp with G5 is enough.
The power scaling in One Piece makes no sense. Kinemon without getting any buffs lost to pre-punk hazard Law. Dressrosa Law lost to Doflamingo and Doflamingo got far eclipsed by start of Wano Luffy yet that Luffy in gear 4 couldn't make Kaido bleed yet Kinemon could and even went onto remain conscious from attacks from Kaido when Lufy got one hit. On top of this, Ulit got a showing that is arguably better than Katakuri's yet Perespero who is the fifth commander of the Big Mum Pirates (Snack was the 4th sweet general before he was defeated and demoted) got a parallel showing to Jack who is above all the Tobi Ropo we saw. So this suggest that Big Mum's 5th commander is similar to Kaido's 3rd or is at least not multiple tiers below him. At some point Oda needs to stop fucking with the power scaling and needs to stop trying to hype up new characters by using Luffy as a punching bag since it completely diminishes past characters.
@@Starkor990power scaling is important whether you like it or not. It’s a battle Shounen for a reason. If you completely ignore the power scaling you’re basically giving the author an excuse to completely throw away the foundation he laid for hierarchy and just create a mess
@@Starkor990 no that is quite obviously a massive inconsistency that the author has put in. You can appreciate a work but still call out obvious plot holes. This is especially true with power scaling since Oda is writing a Shonen which revolves around characters strength yet he often will hype up new characters by making them challenge Luffy even though this directly contradicts narrative.
Lets just ignore the fact that kaido was having pstd when fighting the samurai and also ignore the fact that luffy wasnt in the right state of mind when he got 1 shot. Also, Kinemon's form in armament haki doesnt stop any of law's abilities so of course law beat him. But again, lets just ignore all that and then say oda is bad at power scaling because we ignore the clear info he puts for us
Have you (and all the people complaining about the massive power creep) ever considered the possibility that a character can become better at a single thing and change the outcome of a fight? A character doesn't necessarily need a boost in every single stat to match a previously stronger one. For example, luffy suddently keeping up with kaido was thanks to a single new hax (advanced conqueror's haki), not a boost in every single stat that makes him stronger The strawhats' main goal in the timeskip was to get stronger, and we've seen countless times that they actually improve and develop new moves even when we don't see them actually train, so franky and robin being that strong could is at least plausible. The Chopper and nami arguments don't really make sense: we've seen with kaido and the scabbards that drawing blood doesn't necessarily equate to dealing significant damage, and he's a zoan, so strenght and durability should be his strongest trait Nami has got decent attack power but nothing else really, she would have gotten folded by ulti if she wasn't already on her last legs after tanking big mom's attack. The Ulti argument (which I've seen a lot in powerscaling discussions) is a contender for dumbest take in the series. Luffy was trying to get on the roof as fast as possible, so it's much less far fetched to say that he was going into gear 4 to destroy her quickly rather than her being stronger than katakuri. Also she is a zoan, so strenght and durability are her best traits, and her holding luffy and tanking big mom's attack are strenght and durability feats, she could suck at anything else for all we know. My point is that these power creep discussions seem to try their hardest to put the series in a bad light while disregarding how the power system actually works at the same time
I still cannot understand that Law, who was afraid and absolutely bodied by Donflamingo. Went on to fight two Yonko without fear in just one month. Entire time from Dressrosa to Wano is about a month. Dressrosa to Zou: 1 week Zou to Totland: ~1 week Time in Totland: 4 days Totland to Wano: 2 weeks Time in Wano until invasion, 2 weeks. Donflamingo was bodied by Luffy Gear 4 with ease. Gear 4 Luffy fought Cracker for 11 hours before winning with hard aid by Nami. So Donflamingo was weaker than Cracker, who in turn is massively weaker than Big Mom. But Law still manages to fight her (and Kaido) in almost equal standing, tanking many more attacks than he did from Donflamingo... Why are the Yonko so feared if rookies weaker than your third commander can raise to their level in merely one month?
You're missing one thing. Law could beat Dolflamingo it's just he was afraid of him. Think of it like a son afraid of fighting their father even though they could theoretically win on paper it would be wrong to underestimate the emotional turmoil they'd be going through. Law wasn't afraid of Big Mom and thus could fight closer to his full potential.
I don't think the Tobiroppo are that strong, I don't think any of them come close to Katakuri in terms of strength(excluding the All Stars of course). I don't think Ulti "forces" Luffy to use Gear 4, I think Luffy just wanted to end the fight immediately, just like how Shanks immediately obliterated Kidd with Divine Departure. Luffy base form can hold down a struggling Yamato and Yamato can destroy Ulti, and this is literal minutes after Ulti holding Luffy so you can't argue that "Luffy got a power boost". I understand how you can say that Doflamingo is a major victim of power creep, because of how Doflamingo during Marineford was seen as stronger than Yonko Commanders like Jozu yet after Dressrosa, Upper Yonko Commanders like Cracker or Katakuri are now stronger than the Gear 4 that defeated Doflamingo. But I think your scaling just bad if you think any of the Tobiroppo are stronger than or even close to as strong as Doflamingo or Katakuri. I think Doflamingo is roughly similar power to Jack, and Katakuri is a bit weaker than King but is beyond Queen. I don't get where your idea of Queen>Katakuri came from but it is just not true if You looked at One Piece in an objective manner. I think your weird power scaler mindset and recency bias is falsely interpreting immense power creep even though it is somewhat reasonable in my view. Even though you think I'm "in denial", you are taking little feats and overexaggerating it. Chopper blocking a Big Mom hit is impressive but Big Mom doesn't always hit with full force. Big Mom had to hit the gate of the Wano prison multiple times to break it, yet it took Kidd one punch to break the same gate. This either means Kidd's offense>Big Mom's offense or Big Mom is just not trying when doing causal attacks. Sometimes Oda just downgrades Yonko level character's attacks just so some of our Strawhats just don't die 1000 times over, like when Sengoku becomes the Buddha and punches Gear 3 Giant Balloon Luffy during Marineford or when Jinbei could block Akainu's attacks using the Leidenfrost effect also during Marineford.
Power cliffing isnt such a problem, it more about what Oda wants to say, if it improves the story or adds to it. People cant enjoy the story beczuse they keep caring and looking at powerscaling, and Tylernead keeps forgetting narrative, what oda wants to show, he neglects that and acts like it math where it is a lot more complex than just "luffy gear 4 in wcl is than..."
its all about creating suspense and exploring themes, if the enemies seem insurmaountable its more suspsenseful because we're interested to see how characters overcome these odds while also giving oda opportunities to explore themes like inherited will, overcoming onself and so on. logic, maths, flow of time isn't as important as emotions and being able to relate the contents of the story to one's own life. people punch battle ships to increase their physical strength, trying to powerscale is a pointless endeavor.
I'm sick of these Ulti takes, seriously. She holds base Luffy for a minute, and everybody starts overrating her. Luffy wasn't even using any of his new stuff against her. He was totally repressed. Base, no ryuo... base Luffy is never more powerful than G4 Luffy, even prior G4 Luffy. It's a transformation designed specifically to give an insane power boost. Sure, he could do more damage in base with ryuo or ACoC, but that's only due to it doing internal damage. That's not being stronger per se. Against Ulti, he was using none of that, strength and basic armament only.
I just avoid being overly reliant on power scaling when it comes to fights within One Piece. At the end of the day, the narrative takes more priority over power scaling. For example, I still think WCI Luffy would either need G4 to beat Doflamingo, or it would be a very close fight if he just used G2 + 3 as that is the way I see Doflamingo being presented narratively.
U know i agree with ur scalling chain no doubt but from a narrative standpoint it just doesn't make sense. We know Big Mom and Kaido have been rivals for decades and it only makes sense for them to have fought each other in that time. We also know that Kat and King have been the top guys of their crews for decades too, so for the Big Mom crew to be so much weaker it just isn't compatible with the story told. Everyone on Big Moms crew thinks Kat is invincible there is no way the flying six are on the same power lvl. Again from what is shown i completely agree that it should be the case but on that one i just have to go with the narrative so that it makes sense.
shes the strongest and with a big difference even the second strongest(drake) lost to a finger pistol while ulti tanked 2 thunder bagua easily and like u said took 1 of big moms storngest attacks and kept moving
Ulti should never be up for consideration for weakest tobi roppo when Page One exists. If anything she could be debated to be the strongest, at least durability wise, cause she is way above them, except maybe Drake. She got hit by BM and got back up to fight a little more, meanwhile the rest went down and stayed down from attacks from the mid-tier strawhats.
drake lost to a finger pistol while ulti took 2 thunder bagua and was fine and then took 1 of big moms strongest attacks after the 2 thunder bagua and was still moving she's easily the strongest toppi robo and its not even close even fighting base luffy without ryuo makes her above all the others
He would’ve lost if he didn’t have a whole country to protect him he couldn’t beat doflamingo in 10 minutes so he couldn’t beat him at all at that time
@@qdakid7776 as I said, only limited by time, when he was in G4, Doffy didn't do anything to Luffy while each of his attacks were devastating Doflamingo
another thing we gotta mention as well regarding the Power Creep is how much time has actually passed in the One Piece World since Luffy started his Journey. Including the 2 years timeskip, Luffy has been a Pirate for just 4 years. And now he is Yonkou Level. That is the true power creep. Then again, Luffy is like a historical figure in the One Piece World, like Alexander the Great or Napoleon Bonaparte. People that suddenly pop up and in a few years completely change how the World works.
@lordyeezusberry3968 it's not about beeing a mythical Zoan, just a matter of beeing a protagonist ahah. Zoro isn't a Mythical Zoan or a genetic freak and is one of the strongest in the world right now
luffy was already strong and had feats against some strong people but his biggest problem was not having haki so learinig haki from a haki master for 2 years adding the experience from fighting the likes of katakuri and training his haki even more in wano makes his power ups not that crazy especially in shonen logic u literally have 15 year old kids with 2 months of training get to the point of being the strongest in the verse
@@Spirall445doflamingo could easily do the same for a few hits befote getting trashed like chopper did, I don't understand you power sclaers. One piece isn't dragonball
this shit is why i dont respect power scalers fr, this whole video is goofy and people who sit around debating who could beat who need to learn to have fun and enjoy their cartoons lmao
@@oregonnnnnnnnnnnn the problem with your scaling is y’all forget Perospero was still On onigashma and was directly compared to Jack who is stronger than Ulti. Katakuri is said to be stronger than Pero even by the rest of the BM pirates when they were discussed if BM died who would take over
That's head cannon lol katakuri is in his prime and has been in his prime for a while have you ever considered the possibility that's he's just reached his limit 😂
@@CR7ThorntonHeathyep i believe that crocodile and lucci were at prime in pretime skip but lucci got awakened and croc has yet not used his haki or maybe he don't have any haki left
I believe one piece will have at least 2 more moments of power creep before the end 😂. One probably when Mihawk, shanks and Dragon show what they are capable of... And during the last battle against the final villian
@@animoments8969 yeah . I think the admirals have to show their full strength at a point . Black Beard in my opinion Seems like a candidate for end game villians ..along side Imu.. Whoever it is I think it's gonna be epic
@@gman8477 At some point there will be a dozen or more Kaido level(ish) fighters duking it out, so that'll definitely be one case of power creep. And likely another once Imu rocks up with gloves off. So yep, at least 2 seems about right.
Interesting video, but I didn’t think the idea holds all that well to be honest. Consider crocodile, who was beat by base luffy + a water bottle. Oda wanting him back in the story made him survive Marineford, despite so many characters there theoretically being able to one shot him based on the previous scaling There is also Shanks losing an arm to fodder. Ace’s power being all over the place and Marco being a completely different beast between Marineford and Wano The scaling of power in one piece is relative to the arc as far as I can tell. Katakuri was in the second tier during whole cake just after big mom, if he was teleported to Wano somehow he’d also be in the second tier there and be on par with king, because that’s what the plot would demand. Basically power in one piece is determined by what the story needs, not just previous feats
Crocodile only really used his ability in marineford people overhype tf out of his feats and clashing with doffy who wasnt serious at all he didnt even use haki
I have no excuse for shanks, Aces power isnt "all over the place" when we barley saw him fight only against bb and bb aint weak at all, Marco has always been a beast, basically what im saying is you are only right about the shanks one
Saying that there is a Power Creep in One Piece are for those who dont understand how power level trully are in this world Implying that Chopper would easely beat Queen with the picture you choose to use to select the video is already a clue that you don't get the power levels of the manga
You might want to get your facts straight to get your point across better. No implication was made that Chopper could beat Queen. What was stated was that Chopper was able to draw blood against Queen which he shouldn't be able to do since Queen scales higher than Dressrosa Doffy.
I thought zoro said they just get naturally stronger through each island they go to and just wrote it off as anime logic bcz most anime power creeps are fucking insane
This, combined with Haki Blooming and the passive boosts in strength they are supposed to get from Sanji’s attack cuisine, although we don’t see it that often.
This entire argument gets disproven by Katakuri > Perospero. Because katakuri simply has to be > him narratively. And perospero is portrayed as a parallel to jack against neko and inu. By your own logic tobiroppo members should be no where near jack and thus katakuri should fold any of them. But This interpretation is just wrong because katakuri isnt below or even equal to snakeman luffy. He perception blitzes him, is faster, stronger, and literally does more damage to himself by stabbing himself than luffy did to him the entire fight so is heavily fatigued DUE TO HIS OWN ATTACK. Katakuri is > Snakeman luffy. Queen doesnt restrain luffy at all... in fact he gets one shotted by bigmom WHILE HES TRANSFORMED and it wasnt even a named attack like thunder bagua. Mind you luffy contends bigmom during wci... and bigmom as no reason to get stronger. He also blocked her attack during udon in gear 3. Idk where you got that udon luffy is like much stronger than wci that's never shown, implied, or stated to be the case. So katakuri just unironically has better feats than queen. Lastly ulti being the weakest tobiroppo member makes me question if we read/watched the same fights she blatantly does better than page one against luffy. Has the best durability feat out of any of kaidos crew besides MAYBE king via bigmoms attacks. She perception blitzes nami who should have similar perception and reactions to every straw hats but zoro sanji and maybe jinbe. And she overpowered base luffy likely scales to gear 2 luffy. You can make the argument luffy got stronger that doesnt mean much since katakuri was never a equal to him he was always stronger so that alone doesnt mean luffy > katakuri. That being said the absolute worse case for katakuri still puts him over jack definitively and probably over queen as well. But in actuality hes king level
actually cracker and smoothie are both stronger than perospero and kata is stronger than both by a big difference so yeah that just add ups to make this guys argument even worst
I think its not a situation of "oh that guy is hitting stronger than before"is a situation of circunstantial fighting,a fight is not just about strenght Kaido is ridicously strong yes,but his main thing is his OVERWHELMING RESISTANCE,kaido is already durable but in dragon form his "scales" make him a living tank,also kaido main way of ofense on dragon-mode is fire wich is not as effective as cutting or slashing,he is also so massive that he cant dodge on that form,later we see him using his hibrid form so he can focus on hitting with his spikes/haki,and so he can keep atleast tryng to dodge while maintaining part of the scales durability,and the lightning of kaido doesnt work on luffy. I would argue that for a big part of the fight kaido wanst haki-blooming too,he only even began to struugle on the middle of the fight,while luffy was training and strugling the whole fucking arc. Like i genuinely believe that rob luccy would struggle against kaido on hybrid form,luccy main thing is his tactical power and speed,kaido can controle the espace with his lighting, fire and tornados,pressuring him for a pure-strenght and resistance fight where considering kaido keep his ground against gear 5 luffy,he would have a decent shot againt luccy
It’s all fun and games till perospero pulls up and him beating neko who is stated to be above the tobiropo is still stated weaker than kata so kata beats any tobiropo member
In defense of these strawhats, minus Brook, not everyone’s full potential was shown or realized (minus Usopp who hasn’t really gotten any stronger past Dressrosa). The power creep, I will not deny, but also I won’t say it doesn’t add up
he loves making shit up the fact that doffy negged sanji proves his logic wrong because even base sanji before the germa power up wont lost to a toppi robo
Chopper was literally doing 0 damage to Queen lol what are you talking about. Also Doffy is wayyyyy stronger than the toby ropo, he would be part of the all stars if he was an actual crew member. Def exagerating
Weird cherry picked examples. Some good points but overall this vid just misses the mark tbh. The Ulti clash was nothing, Luffy just underestimated the need to us any of his power. Katakuri is destroying Ulti 1 on 1.
I think its about time we just admit katakuri is just not him
I think he is a cool character, strength doesn't really matter tbh for a good character, Vivi is a good example.
fr the only reason people say he beats characters who are not on his level like sanji is jus bc he's cool but in terms of power he isn't as strong as we think he is now
@@muhammedyaseen5781 I'm talking about writing not powerscaling
he stopped being him when he took damage to base luffy wci
Katakuri suffers from not having plot on his side. In an indeal world Kat would clap the shit out of either kid or law.
To my knowledge Monster Point Chopper had never taken a loss prior to Big Mom. We were never told the exact strength of Monster Point, so it's totally plausible that he could scrap with Queen. I think the main problem was that although he was extremely powerful in terms of raw power he was slow, and couldn't control it pre time-skip.
Didn{t he lose against the Pacisifta?
@@emiliohugues315 nah, only kuma send him flying, and that is df shenanigans
kuma beat it
He lost a fight against trees
Chopper wasn't able to keep his senses aka mind pre time skip
The katakuri disrespect is crazy bro, if you wanna powerscale feats cool but when it comes down to it narratively speaking you cannot tell me that katakuri a first commander loses to anyone of tobbiropo. That just legitimately makes no sense
Bcuz he dont,its just inconcistency and speculation(bcuz Oda like to make power lvls of some characters unclear)
But he definetly loses to King
In Wano oda was handing out power ups like candy on that fairy tail wave
Yeah dude fr
Act 3 Wano was generally really messy, a shame really.
Thankfully he gave us egghead islands and I'm just going to say is one of the best arcs I've seen my opinion
@@lividellis2757 the best arc … yea I said it !
literally 90% of the people fighting in wano haven't shown their full power before so how is it a power up ?? its a power reveal for most of them and the ones who got a power ups are the monster trio and law which was needed and made since law knew he needed to get ready for a yonko fight after doffy and gaining an awakening isn't crazy for someone who mastered his df like him and luffy is the mc who has a lot of potential and great understanding of haki his power ups makes since and are needed and both zoro and sanji got their power ups naturally one got a stronger sword and the other awakened his germa DNA and fairy tail is a power of friendship amp its not the same its literally going against someone a 100 times stronger than u then u get a vision of your friends that gives them a 200 times amp which goes away after the fight lmao its not the same at all
My problem with Oda atm is why was it so hard to not gice the other strawhats Haki? Haki isnt special anymore, atleast at this level. The fact Robin, Franky, Chopper, and Nami aren't confirmed to be using haki at this point in the story is absolutely absurd. And Ussop is worse, he has haki but rarely uses it😂 wtf oda?
the crew werent meant to all be fighters some didnt even train physically and also who was gonna teach them haki only robin had people who can teach her haki and she ended up with a version of haki taught by sabo and koala the others got power ups that fits them more the only problem is usopp he still didn't learn how to use observation but he unlocked it in dreasrosa I'm fine with that as long as he learns it in elbaf because u cant just use haki out of nowhere u have to train it usopp in dreasrosa just unconsciously used it in dreasrosa
1 you can't just learn haki it time a good teacher and a hostile environment
You seem to have one piece misunderstood. It’s not an anime that mainly focuses on fighting like dragonball where one person gets super saiyan and then every one else gets it. Oda has other aspects to focus on, like the story and character writing. Most of the straw hats aren’t natural born fighters like Luffy Zoro and Sanji are, so they won’t be as proficient with haki as they would. Learning haki would most likely be too hard/take too much time/ or it just wouldn’t be in their character to learn haki. The story wouldn’t be interesting if they just gave everyone advanced haki and they automatically win every fight
@@PlushiePirate shut up. I never said they should get ADVANCE HAKI, stop fabricating arguments to disprove. I'll concede that Chopper, Nami, and Robin don't need to know how to use Haki, but Ussop should 100% be the observation master of the crew. I'm not saying he should have future sight, but he should have the farthest reaching observation of the crew, but he does nothing.
Haki is not the Super Saiyan transformation, that's such a terrible comparison. Not every Z fighter is a Saiyan, but EVERY strawhat can learn Haki.
@@DirtyBobBojangles Observation is used more defensively rather than for accuracy. Usopp is still the best sniper on the crew regardless, it’s just the the monster trio have stronger observation haki cause it benefits them more in fights. Also I’m pretty sure Usopp doesn’t even know what Haki is, or atleast he doesn’t have an understanding of it like the monster trio does.
The powerclifing in Wano is so crazy that even People like kinemon who are Fodders compare to the top tiers like kaido can beat Characters like Smoothie and Cracker who were supposed to be Yc2 and 3 of the big mom Pirates
I mean Neko and inu were tied with a 3rd commander and needed the sulong power up to beat him and perospero.
And they're the strongest scabbards so could fucking kinemon really beat them😂yeah they have ryou but in the grand scheme of things theyre still kinda weak.
Narratively perospero(not even a sweet commander) is shown to be on the same level as jack seeing as they both got mid diffed by the minks so unless you have perospero>kat this comment makes no sense
“Narratively perospero(not even a sweet commander) is shown to be on the same level as jack”
He really isn’t; Jack was already heavily wounded when he got beaten by a Sulong Inu, while even before Neko went Sulong he was already strong enough to put a relatively healthy Perospero on the backfoot.
The issue is that people like yourself think everybody is fodder, and you need to define what fodder actually is. Fodder to me is the random low-ranked marines by the thousands. Kinemon isn't Fodder, he's just goofy. He's at least 3rd Yonko Commander. Seems to me that people think fodder means under Admiral level, which makes no sense.
Kinemon like most of the scabbards had everything to lose, the more you have to lose the the stronger your resolve as your resolve grows the stronger your will does as your will grows because of what you have to fight for to keep, especially if their are personal stakes at play... Then you get Kinemon survive Kaido's thunder bagua, because he can't afford to die right now, add the fact that he was still split from law since never put him back properly....then you get him tanking that thunder bagua. People sleep on kinemon but people need to realize this was at the time their arc and story, their personal history and personal stakes are what mattered here. And look they got help from an outside force but that doesn't diminish what was their current tale!
I think severe underestimation of katakuri is going on
I think the power creep is overblown. People are just realising the most powerful characters just aren't as untouchable as they once seemed. If Oda wants characters to be capable, he makes it so. Like Crocodile in Marineford. People now would call him fodder based on how they perceive his strength but he was still useful in that battle. Granted it isn't perfectly balanced, some power ups are deus ex machina and and sometimes characters are handicapped for no given reason.
@@DeBean970bro Nami low-key stronger then every warlord (except mihawk) at the beginning of the series and would would whoop Katakuri the strongest member of a yonko crew I don't care how overblown power creep is in your eyes this does not make sense
@@hassanhassan-os5oqshe... Wouldn't though
@@ethanwescott6330 she's is comparable to ulti who made base Luffy struggle and that base Luffy is stronger then gear 4snake man Luffy Vs Katakuri
@@hassanhassan-os5oq Shes not comparable to Ulti. You people are stupid as hell. She's always eat weaker than the opponents she beats
In fairness to Franky, Egghead is showing us that tech *can* make some major differences in power
Robin also reveals she’s been training Fishman Karate and awakened (?) her fruit (we still don’t know wtf Demonio is)
Also was the black colouring haki I still don’t know
@@siddhantchauhan1975it wasn't haki holy shit you guys are dumb
Not an awakening
@@SuperiorIronMan0 you can’t prove to me definitively that it isn’t, I can’t prove definitively that it is…..but I’m sure we could give pretty good reasoning for each
Which is why I added the “(?)”
@@siddhantchauhan1975 I don’t think so tbh….comparing the panel to other panels of armament Haki, it looks like Demonio is a lighter color with dark shadows rather than the dark color with shine
Saying the Queen is stronger than Kat cause he caught a half-assed punch from base Luffy is fucking wild, but definitely par for the course in this fandom lmao.
Shut up 😂 lil bro you’re not listening 😂😂😂😂
@@Kryss_collects after 11 months i forgot a lot about this.
But thats still a retarded argument.
Grow a brain.
Keep in mind chopper is not set a condition in terms of where his strength stacks up with the rest of the crew unlike Usopp who Oda stated before he wants to remain the weakest strawhat, so Chopper was never the weakest strawhat if Usopp is already established to be in that position no matter what happens to the strawhat crew
I think the problem of the Power Creep is due to Imu.
When Oda introduced us Imu, i think it set up a stage here.
Any enemy that Luffy will fight is going to be weaker than Imu. Because Imu is the man that killed Joyboy.
And i highly believe Joyboy was so OP he used his ability to encase Wano. He stretched the land around Wano to create a Wall.
This is the problem.
Oda is trying to show us that the Legends of the Past were capable of feats the current Legends cant even fathom.
But the main villain of the series is a Legend from the Past, so this means he has no choice but to exponentially grow Luffy's abilities.
I think Joyboy and Imu are the main reason for the Power Creep.
These 2 characters were so Powerful that its ridiculous the level of power they have. So Oda has no choice but to give Joyboy's full skillset to Luffy as fast as possible.
I bet my left nut Imu won't even be that powerful.
@@user-on1qc5gg9t Oda has the Sun God Nika ability as a trump card.
In fact the way Toei animation did it, show us that Luffy when in Nika Stage can somehow hear the dreams and wishes of his allies, and that makes him stronger.
But i also believe that the Nika Fruit passively makes Luffy's allies stronger.
Zoro did mention to Usopp once that Usopp may not have noticed, but they become stronger after each island they visit.
Sure they train. But i highly believe the Nika Fruit exponentially increases their growth.
Specially because they are Luffy's crew, and they believe in him to the point of putting their life on the line.
Whenever a Straw Hat states that Luffy will become Pirate King, the Nika Fruit probably boosts their strength.
Its like a constant hidden buff.
Things generally go Luffy's way.
And luck is also on his side.
Those are all side effects of the Nika Fruit.
It is the most ridiculous power in the world.
Oda already said on SBS, being higher rank doesn't equally being strong.
One of my least favorite thing about Wano is that we saw nothing from Ussop. Like u said, Nami got Zeus, and Chopper damaged Queen, but we didn’t see anything from him, even though in dressrosa he could’ve arguably been the strongest of the trio.
6:20 for Chopper he literally did that though, he explained why he can use monster point so effectively thanks to Ceasar. And regardless have we really seen most of the strawhats go all out prior to Wano? Maybe Franky and Brook against big mom but thats pretty much it and Franky didn't even use General Franky and probably got stronger after his fight with Senor Pink. Namis power jump was mostly just Zeus lol.
"luffy had to use gear 5 to beat lucci, lucci is stronger than katakuri confirmed" 💀💀💀💀💀💀💀
Luffy was showing off his new suit thats it😂he probably couldve handled lucci in base with coc attacks
Lol but he is, current lucci>>whole cake katakuri. Not because of the gear 5 thing but, c'mon isn't it obvious
@@lusakomanda4235 100% not, toxic recency bias!!!! Its like saying Bonney can beat Hancock just because we saw her more recently. You lost your mind completly!!!
Luffy just doesn't like holding back in fights and one shooting his apponets
@@arturw5556Katakuri would get one shot because Gear 5 is above base Kaido which one shot a gear 4th form more durable than Snake- Man. But at least Lucci didnt and could clash with Gear 5 Luffy which is something Katakuri wouldn't be able to do. Hence why he outscales Katakuri.
Ulti isn't the weakest tobiroppo, she's the strongest or the second strongest just behind who's who.
And nami just could beat her because she was already with 1 HP because of big mom's combined attack
4th strongest.
@@duncan3998 in feats she's the strongest
Also for this whole thing remember X Drake matched post udon Luffy. We talking the same Ulti who’s relative to X Drake? Who Jack says even near death the tobiroppo can’t beat the scabbards. After getting dogwalked by Kaido Izo kills a Cp0 member and injured another one, in a 2v1. X Drake with the help of Apoo and giants got cooked in a 2v4 against Cp0. X Drake even healed snuck up on the Cp0 agent and got blitzed by him.
Izo>Ulti with Ulti being relative to X Drake. Nekomamushi got bullied by Perospero before Sulong. The same Nemomamushi who’s above Izo. Which means Perospero>tobiroppo. Also has relative portrayal to Jack. Cracker is stronger than Perospero.
Which would put him over Jack. Smoothie is stronger than Cracker. Ap wise G4 Luffy in WCI made Big Mom use armament to block his attack. Let me repeat that Big Mom thought it was necessary to use armament against G4 WCI Luffy. Unless you think the tobiroppo durability and even queen durability>big mom.
Then Katakuri> queen and the flying 6 Ap wise. Which also means Katakuri can damage the top commanders of the beast pirates. You know how Persopero is stronger than X Drake. Well that same X Drake is going bar for bar with a post udon g4 Luffy attack wise. Perospero>that X Drake which in turn puts the rest of the sweet generals>tobiroppo
So with all that being said King> Katakuri> Queen= Smoothie>Cracker> Jack=Perospero> Cat Viper> XDrake and Ulti
couldnt have said it better myself
Exactly, it wouldnt make sense for all the commanders in the beast pirates to be stronger than kat
G4 luffy making big mom use armament doesn’t scale him anywhere, and it DEFINITELY doesn’t scale katakuri anywhere
Anyway, considering how badly kat took not only a base wci luffy’s kick BEFORE growing in battle, but also a wci g4 boundman luffy’s hit, it’s not outrageous to say in pure power, wci boundman > katakuri
Also, no clue how you got kat above queen
@@immortalRob8791 Nah on the WCI Boundman, Kat's CoA directly outclassed Luffy in power directly. Kat completely outclassed Luffy in every category at the start of their fight.
@@ZaneBlalock his CoA outclassed base luffy and snakeman, but boundman was able to damage kat and send him flying when breaking his guard
I think a lot of people overestimate Ulti's power and overestimate the statement Kaido made about Jack and Doflammingo. Yes, Ulti hurt base Luffy. Does that mean she is stronger than Katakuri? I dont think so. Luffy could have beaten her in base form. She was no threat. And with Kaido.. Of course he is going to call is own subordinate strong because he respect his (strong) subordinates. Doflammingo was a trading partner who lost. So he is going to call him weak... When certain characters clash and make statements.. that does not automatically reveal the exact power scaling in the verse. Another example from Egghead: Luffy clashed in gear 5 with luccy. the clash was only for showcase. next chapter luffy clapped luccy.. so i would take certain clashes or statements too seriously
Ulti walked off a a Thunder Bagua from Yamato, who at the very least scales to Jimbei and Zoro, a Thunderbolt Tempo, and a Maser Canon from Big Mom, who was able to temporarly knock-out Queen with a simple punch, before a Zeus enchanced Thunderbolt took her out. I'd actually say people underestimate her. She easily had the best showing of the Tobiroppo, most of whom were taken out by the non-combat specialists Strawhats.
@@Verebazssomething that is ignored at times is that endurance and power are not a 1 to 1 relation in most cases.
Ulti is extremely resilient, but her attack power may not be nearly as impressive as her defensive power.
Ulti could be the weakest Tobi Roppo offensively and still be the most resilient out of them all.
The type of linear scaling used in this video is prone to a lot of logic leaps that at times make no sense but considering the limitations of power scaling in general, it is to be expected.
@@imatiu Oh yeah, because Black Maria had impressive offensive feats...wait she didn't. She just wrecked the castle around herself.
Sasaki was also such an unstoppable steamengine....oh wait Franky Shogun easily slapped him around.
Whos-Who broke Armament Haki infused his finger-guns on Jimbei's own Armament Haki.
Page-5 couldn't even touch Sanji.
X-Drake and Ulti were the only ones who had any sort of offensive feat to brag about.
Although I do agree power-scaling is kind of stupid in general.
its not like ulti would touch any strawhats @@Verebazs
luffy said he needs gear 4 keep coping bro.
You really can't make an argument for any Tobiroppo beating Katakuri when we see Perospero being displayed in a relative manner to Jack (stated stronger than every Tobiroppo) and Katakuri is ranked above Peros
Perosperos isn't relative to jack, Both of those fights were amongst characters that were severely weakened so it's unfair to really judge their power at that moment
I feel like Wano is when One Piece went full on battle shounen with the power ups.
Claiming that Ulti is probably stronger than doflamingo is crazy. Luffy uses g4 all the time in the raid even when they destroyed that boat. He doesn't need it to defeat her at all.
stop. Luffy disagrees with you. He specifically stated he needed gear 4 against her.
@rosaeruber225 No, he did not, lmfao all he did was say he was going into gear fourth. It is in no way required, unless you believe base Luffy truly is that weak, which was proven objectively false.
@@pokekiller787x Him going into gear 4 was specifically a react to Ulti's coming attack. Luffy was shook.
Hence, he needed gear 4.
Ulti and every Tobbi roppu unironically no diff Doflamingo
@robchamp8556 Bro the Tobi Roppo needed help to not get mid diffed by the straw hats. You're saying current Franky mid diffs doffy?🤣
In my opinion the only in your face power creep that One Piece had was Kaido. Gear 4 was already able to damage Katakuri but future sight made it impossible to tag him that's why Luffy had to grow his observation haki Katakuri's durability is no way closer to that of Cracker's hax. Luffy himself pointed it out when Katakuri lost his composure he said I quote:" So you can get hurt".
People sometimes ignore how a match up can be disadvantageous because of hax(Nami being a prime example) . We can come up with a strategy on how Katakuri could defeat Ulti however if she manages to catch him offguard pin him down and headbutt him to death it's gg. It's more so about fighting to your advantages until monsters of durability like Kaido and King(lunarian) show up.
3:37 Page One: I'm a joke to you?
Ulti is actually on the Top 5 of Beast Pirates based on feats, more especifically, durability feats.
I think she is the second strongest after Who's who. But she couldn't shine because all her fights where shit.
The most Insane power creep is gonna be Koby. If he ever fights Luffy again and it’s anything more then a No Diff Luffy W. That’ll be one of the few times Oda shows a lack of building and power scaling.
Stop reading if you are not caught up to the manga. I mean, Coby just displayed a big ass attack with Advanced CoC. If Luffy can become stronger than his gear 4 in base within like an hour, it won't be surprising for Coby to be a Low-Mid Diff for Luffy.
@@yaknowdis8668 Currently waiting for 1091. Seen how Luffy was talking to Saturn last chapter ? 😭 What a fucking Dawg !! Next chapter gonna be 🔥 I hope, I seen what Koby did and didn’t like it then and still don’t. He has 0 feats fr but he’ll somehow keep up with Luffy ? Even in Gear 5 😅 Just from… Training lol Doesn’t sit right with me. That’s like Helmeppo going toe to toe with Mihawk. You would question it I’d hope ? That’s Luffy Vs Koby.
@@yaknowdis8668 There isn’t one reason Koby should be anywhere near Luffy other then Narrative and it being “cool to see”. Like feel free to tell me how many Warlords Koby took out ?? Or Yonko ? Last time he pulled up to a Warlord island he got kidnapped 😭 It’s not even close but it’ll probably happen smh
@@jojobravo3829 Dawg, he didn"t even fight Boa nor BB. Not saying he woulda won against a yonko, but he allowed himself to be captured. If Garp grew to be Roger's level, then his desciple is gonna be strong.
Oda thankfully doesn't give a single flying fuck about power scaling, also it is absolutely in world building to be this strong at this point
I'm convinced that Tylearned, Superior IQ and Restless Gambler are bros
I see when ty said: the powercreep comes from katakuri losing to luffy who gets one shotted by kaido.
It's not the first time we see this in one piece. Oda's incosistency with the powerscaling makes people start questioning between narrative and feats.
Luffy didn’t cleanly beat Katakuri, he left the fight once Gear 4 wore out and likely would have lost if Katakuri didn’t injure choose to injure himself as well. At that point it was debatable whether or not he was cleanly above Katakuri, the same way people fell like it’s debatable whether or not he’s above Kaidou.
Luffy getting one-shot by Kaidou was also because he recklessly charged at him. Seeing Shanks one-shot Kidd & Killer should tell you that if your guard is down and a Yonkou gets a clean hit, they can take you out.
@@PandaDonG even if katakuri did not stab himself, even if kaido fought luffy 1v1 with no help, luffy will beat them both for oda's narrative.
@@mohammed44_power scaling doesn't mean jack shit in one piece and I despise those who try to treat it like dragonball
@@mohammed44_well yes but that didn't happen. Luffy had a LOT of help with Kaido
I can't wait to see Akainu approach the Sunny and casually explode a massive mountain in the background. "Yeah, I could have oneshotted Kaido this whole time."
Lol thsts so funny but thats the issue power cliff creates
@@animoments8969 I don't think it's an issue, I think it's funny as hell.
kizaru is about to show why he wanted to 2v1 Kaido and Big mom lol
@@Archonus Yeah I agree it is funny but its also an issue because itll create a situatuation where it looks like the entire arc of marineford seems pointless cause any one of the admirals could have one shoted whitebeard (due to pwerclifing not narrative). Marineford was hype they brought in every asset the navy had at their dispossal just for whitebeard now well just look dumb for bieng hyped about that arc even though in terms of narratve whitebeard was tthe strongest in the world powerclifing will contradict that.
Katakuri no diffs every Tobi Roppo, low diffs Jack, mid diffs Queen, and arguably extreme diffs King. He's so "power cliffed" that Kaido reveals he has future sight in the 9th inning of his fight as the ace up his sleeve, and Shanks also gets revealed as a proficient user. Scaling Katakuri to Tobi Roppo level is objectively wrong, since Perospero is scaled to Jack, who's above all the Tobi Roppo, meaning you're claiming that Katakuri is weaker than Perospero lmao.
King > Katakuri
I'll have you know that future sight negs everything and Katakuri solo's all of one piece and your favourite verse , L+ratio.
Katakuri fodder, he’s a chopper victim 🗿
@@Mono_303 I have your address.
🤣
@@Fred123-u4i 😟
I can't stop laughing 😂
Good joke man
Nobody says ulti is one of the weakest, fear wise she is one of the strongest Tobi roppo, Jack is garbage, the Tobi roppos all get slammed by doffy
Still Jack >>> Tobi roppos
nah chopper power creep is normal so is nico robins. you got to remember that choppers monster point is mimicking awakened zoan. As seen from pigeon guy and the prison guards the diffrence in awakened zoans who can control their power by staying sane and those who go insane is massive. and chopper littearly doubled his monster point time since fishmen island.
As for nico robins she has never actually used her devil fruit to the full potential and only recently used mega sized nico robin clones and even added karate to the mix.
Pigeon guy 😂
The problem is people are scaling one piece like its dragon ball were essentially anyone can beat villains goku has fought in exactly the same way
See if its katakuri vs king the battle would be completely different because of abilities, fighting style, morales and goals even though king will win the battle still wont be in the same manner as zoro vs king
The battles in one piece arent like dragon ball
How the battle is fought and won will completely depend on the people fighting
And people dont seem seem to realize that almost every one piece character has their own way if fighting if gear 4 luffy challenged sanji to a leg clash who would win its sanji its the same with luffy vs ulti
Luffy challenged her in what shes most proficient at
That's one of my main grievances with power scaling in general. People think everything scales like Dragon Ball. For example: AP must scale to durability and speed, or character A must be two times stronger than character B because character A couldn't hurt him. You know how in DBZ, being two times stronger is enough to pretty much makes you invulnerable? People apply the same logic to other anime. In anime like One Piece, even an attack that's 20 times weaker than you might knock you back or make you bleed but won't do any significant damage, you don't necessarily tank everything that's weaker than you. Something like saying anyone who can damage Kaido is stronger than Gear 4 in his first fight with Kaido is valid though.
Yes and no if a character in his base form is objectively preforming feats better than there most powerful form than there has been a massive jump in stats. King and Kat would be close if not for the scene with Kaido and gear 4 luffy, it makes Kat look worse because king does way better against characters stronger than gear 4 luffy post WCI. If king and Kat were relative than yeah powers and hax would matter but going of feats alone king is far better and if you add in narrative than it’s more even
@@FlawlessWallace3350power scaling clowns refusing to listen to one piece logic when that's what they've been watching for 2 decades
@@bullettime1116 okay? Going off narrative king and Kat should be relative but if you only go off feats a showings Kat just does not stack up in the later half of Wano. G4 bound man getting one shot by Kaido makes Kat look so bad in the grand scheme of things. Even things like future sight can be by passed by being faster than the user Kaido does this to a stronger luffy during their fight. Haxs can only last so long on a fight if the stats gap is huge
@@FlawlessWallace3350 it isn't dragon ball, it doenst work that way, and I'm done arguing about it. If one piece was like dragon ball I would've stopped watching a long time ago. Power sclaers ruin literally every community they belong to
Perospero = Jack in wano, meaning big moms commanders should be relative to Kaidos narratively
One issue is that you look at it in a "power level" way. Just the fact that the characters have grown in between East Blue and Enies Lobby for example doesn't necessarily mean that Zoro went from 100 to 1000 and Luffy from 1000 to 2000, it simply means that they've all grown stronger by steadily improving in a more "realistic way". Sanji did increase in terms of combat skill and strength over those passing arcs, but that doesn't mean that Bon Kurey is twice as strong as Arlong's fishman Karate practitioner and that Jabra was twice as strong as Bon Kurey. Their opponents were clearly stronger with each arc, but not by astronomical levels.
This can also explain the Chopper issue. We never got to see how strong Monster point actually was. He easily destroyed Kumadori and easily defeated fishmen, but we never got to see him go 1vs 1 against a really strong guy to determine what his actual limits were.
Also haki blooming, again, it wasn't stated that a character grows twice or ten times stronger, maybe it's just a stady growth that could stop at 1% or 5% or 10%. Even Luffy managing to stop Kaido in base is not because his body or haki were now so much stronger than they were in Gear 4 a few minutes ago, it's simply because he was finally able to use the advanced haki efficiently and now it was more effective.
One thing that really annoys me though, is that it's confirmed by Kaido that Doflamingo is "weak". Considering that his bounty was almost 400 mill YEARS AGO when it was taken out by the government, means that he could have been considered a much more serious threat during Dressrosa. Not to mention that bounties are not about strength, but danger level, so they could have said that Queen's bounty wasn't so big because he was close to King, but because he can recreate deadly disease and use them as war weapons.
Ngl i think brook is the biggest culprit of this, he was struggling with zombie ryuma on thriller bark, but suddenly after spending two years on tour he's become a really reliable fighter
Post wci gear4 luffy who got one shotted wasn’t in his calm state due to him seeing his whole crew basically getting blasted off by kaido so dude wasn’t in same level as the best luffy that fought kat (can’t use future sight if you’re not calm, maybe even the normal observation)
love someone from this fanbase actually uses his brain for once even adding to this the fact that luffy didn't even beat kata with snake man because he still stood up in fact katakuris worst injury was stabbing himself and his not a durable beast like luffy so that made him lose if they both never were stabbed luffy would've lost the fight even with snake man
To be fair chopper’s monster point was never shown it’s peak till queen while ever one has been afraid to get hit by that thing
6:25 i’m seeing a pattern on oda drawing name...
Long ass video to say katakuri gets fodderized by ulti 😭 🙏
Which is wrong.
Once Katakuri makes a return he will prove he’s gotten stronger which imo wouldn’t make an ounce of sense unless he’s had a high-extreme diff fight since fighting luffy
That is arguable
But she damn sure has better AP, durability, and endurance.
@@vegetacultminorityhunter Lol no
@@vegetacultminorityhunteronly thing I’ll give is AP when kat isn’t using the spear and durability but kat is 10x smarter, has future sight, range, and hax over ulti
always good to see fraudakuri getting powercreeped
he's a fraud how?
@@XAsh_blackhe isn’t TH-cam one piece fans call anyone they don’t like frauds😂
@@sauce6265he is a fraud he gets slapped by ulti💀
@@XAsh_blackcuz he’s Tobi roppo level and people want to pretend like he can even touch sanji
@@idontusecolgate he didn't ask his fans to scale him did he? He didn't bitcy out from anything neither did he trash talk anyone he jut went out with honor and you call him a fraud
i think people overthinking it. The power difference between characters like Katakuri and Queen not in multiples. They are about the same. That just means that Luffy didnt grow as much as we think he did and the powelevel doesnt rise exponentialy.
smh rip katakuri
Oh my god it’s the GOAT
the myth
Midkuri 🗣️🗣️
Wano has no crazy power cliffing imo (at least not with Luffy, Law is a different story. Idk when he got so strong). People simply misunderstand the nature of Luffy's level up in Wano. That Ulti take is a giveaway that you are getting it wrong...
Early Wano Luffy could have probably wrecked most of the Beast Pirates 1v1. If Sanji had been kidnapped by the Beast Pirates instead of the BM pirates, Luffy would have snuck up in there, and kicked some zoan ass. He could have certainly destroyed any Tobi Roppo, and with the same lenience he was afforded in WCI of fleeing fights vs commanders when needed (as he did vs Cracker and Katakuri ), he could have beaten at least Jack and Queen by pushing himself a little. Beasts are Luffy's area of expertise. He designed G4 specifically to be able to punch the shit out of very strong beasts. He would have had a blast on Wano, as long as he could use Gear 4.
King might have been too much due to his insane dura, but Luffy being Luffy, he would probably find a goofy way to hit him flame off and have a CoA haki bloom (he'd probably learn ryuo). He would have come up with Rhinoman instead of Snakeman, and ryuo gatlinged the shit out of him. Zoro's ACoC folded King in three hits. I believe Luffy has stronger haki than Zoro overall, so his ryuo is not too far below Zoro's ACoC in destructive capability. Damage accumulates. If Luffy could hit King with like fifty or so ryuo punches, like say a Red Roc gatling, or Kong Gatling with ryuo, I'm sure King would be wrecked.
Then, Luffy would have to flee before Kaido, like he fled before Big Mom, cause he wasn't there strength wise just yet.
People act like Luffy couldn't have kicked ass on Wano, cause he got ridiculed by big boss Kaido. Kaido was HIM. His subordinates are nowhere near his strength, save maybe King in terms of durability. A serious base Kaido probably folds King mid diff.
If you assume Luffy got like 10 times stronger in every stat after Udon then yeah, the power cliff looks crazy.
Here's a better way to look at what happened on Wano, in my opinion : Luffy was already able to beat up almost everyone, save for the two Yonkou on Wano, and maybe King (he would have needed a haki bloom, like against Katakuri). So he had to level up. He boosted his resistance by training with sea stone on, a substance that naturally weakens him. And then, he learned a trick, a more lethal way to use haki, which allows him to bypass Kaido and Big Mom's insane body toughness. That's it.
He didn't get "exponentially stronger". He toughened up a bit in jail (jail would do that 😏) cause of course he trained his body under harsh conditions...but mostly, he learned a new trick, that allows him to do internal damage, or parry stronger blows than he couldn't before. And that's enough to make a huge difference in the way a fight looks.
No, save for ryuo and its internal damage, Luffy didn't come out of Udon stronger in base than he was previously with G4 transformations. When he fought Ulti, he was only using his old bag of tricks, basic armament coating, with his slightly tougher base body. He kept the good stuff for rooftop. And yet, Ulti in her strongest form (hybrid) couldn't harm that repressed Luffy using base form and basic CoA. Without ryuo, that base Luffy was nowhere near prior G4 power levels, just a bit more resistant. So when he said he wanted to use G4, that's a G4 only a bit tougher than before thanks to the jail buff up. Not a crazy gap with the Luffy that couldn't do shit to Kaido.
Had he decided to use ryuo, he could have packed Ulti in base, cause ryuo hits different, and is more lethal.
When you look at it this way, it all makes sense. You realize how the Big Mom Pirates can be relative to the Beast Pirates, and only the Captains are far higher than the rest.
P.S.: Red Roc is not base Luffy, it's G3 + ryuo, with even hints of G2 Red Hawk.
"jail would do that" lol. very solid points
@@AmondraLive I like to make the following analogy :
- base form = skinny teenager form
- training in Udon = hitting the gym for a month
- G4 transformation = getting a wrestler's body and strength, for 10 minutes
- ryuo = getting a bowie knife
- ACoC = getting a jackhammer
That analogy even explains why he still relies on G4 to do more damage with ryuo or ACoC.
@@almy-qy1lf Base to Udon is not 1 month of the gym, 1 year of hitting the gym doesn't even stack up to the ACoA powerup
@@ale3for913 the ACoA stackup was mostly him learning ryuo, and in my analogy, that corresponds to him getting a bowie knife. The 1 month at the gym was abt resistance boost, he trained with sea stone on, his natural weakness.
I feel this is the most comprehensive analogy and analysis of how Luffy's level ups worked going from WCI to Wano. He leveled up but moreso in the fact he gained new tools rather than new strength. Ryou and Aconq are tools he gained from learning how they work and training in prison. Additions to his Kit that help him in situations where his base strength doesn't cut it. G2-4 are the actual powerups since they directly affect Luffy's stats while Acoa and Conqs are augments to those strengths.
G5 further increases his strength and his resistance and versatility but I believe, not by much, moreso that it adds a *debuff* to whoever he's fighting against since they are now directly affected by his abilities and can be physically manipulated by him.
And it's for that reason why we see Luffy in Egghead clap Lucci w/o using Haki. Cause he doesn't need to. His base strength esp with G5 is enough.
The power scaling in One Piece makes no sense.
Kinemon without getting any buffs lost to pre-punk hazard Law. Dressrosa Law lost to Doflamingo and Doflamingo got far eclipsed by start of Wano Luffy yet that Luffy in gear 4 couldn't make Kaido bleed yet Kinemon could and even went onto remain conscious from attacks from Kaido when Lufy got one hit.
On top of this, Ulit got a showing that is arguably better than Katakuri's yet Perespero who is the fifth commander of the Big Mum Pirates (Snack was the 4th sweet general before he was defeated and demoted) got a parallel showing to Jack who is above all the Tobi Ropo we saw. So this suggest that Big Mum's 5th commander is similar to Kaido's 3rd or is at least not multiple tiers below him.
At some point Oda needs to stop fucking with the power scaling and needs to stop trying to hype up new characters by using Luffy as a punching bag since it completely diminishes past characters.
Or maybe instead of blaming thr author, it's the fans who are trying way too hard with the powerscaling
@@Starkor990I agree that the story is more important but the thing is wano was so fighting oriented that you can’t help but notice in consistencies
@@Starkor990power scaling is important whether you like it or not. It’s a battle Shounen for a reason. If you completely ignore the power scaling you’re basically giving the author an excuse to completely throw away the foundation he laid for hierarchy and just create a mess
@@Starkor990 no that is quite obviously a massive inconsistency that the author has put in. You can appreciate a work but still call out obvious plot holes. This is especially true with power scaling since Oda is writing a Shonen which revolves around characters strength yet he often will hype up new characters by making them challenge Luffy even though this directly contradicts narrative.
Lets just ignore the fact that kaido was having pstd when fighting the samurai and also ignore the fact that luffy wasnt in the right state of mind when he got 1 shot. Also, Kinemon's form in armament haki doesnt stop any of law's abilities so of course law beat him. But again, lets just ignore all that and then say oda is bad at power scaling because we ignore the clear info he puts for us
Have you (and all the people complaining about the massive power creep) ever considered the possibility that a character can become better at a single thing and change the outcome of a fight? A character doesn't necessarily need a boost in every single stat to match a previously stronger one. For example, luffy suddently keeping up with kaido was thanks to a single new hax (advanced conqueror's haki), not a boost in every single stat that makes him stronger
The strawhats' main goal in the timeskip was to get stronger, and we've seen countless times that they actually improve and develop new moves even when we don't see them actually train, so franky and robin being that strong could is at least plausible.
The Chopper and nami arguments don't really make sense: we've seen with kaido and the scabbards that drawing blood doesn't necessarily equate to dealing significant damage, and he's a zoan, so strenght and durability should be his strongest trait
Nami has got decent attack power but nothing else really, she would have gotten folded by ulti if she wasn't already on her last legs after tanking big mom's attack.
The Ulti argument (which I've seen a lot in powerscaling discussions) is a contender for dumbest take in the series. Luffy was trying to get on the roof as fast as possible, so it's much less far fetched to say that he was going into gear 4 to destroy her quickly rather than her being stronger than katakuri. Also she is a zoan, so strenght and durability are her best traits, and her holding luffy and tanking big mom's attack are strenght and durability feats, she could suck at anything else for all we know. My point is that these power creep discussions seem to try their hardest to put the series in a bad light while disregarding how the power system actually works at the same time
I still cannot understand that Law, who was afraid and absolutely bodied by Donflamingo. Went on to fight two Yonko without fear in just one month.
Entire time from Dressrosa to Wano is about a month.
Dressrosa to Zou: 1 week
Zou to Totland: ~1 week
Time in Totland: 4 days
Totland to Wano: 2 weeks
Time in Wano until invasion, 2 weeks.
Donflamingo was bodied by Luffy Gear 4 with ease.
Gear 4 Luffy fought Cracker for 11 hours before winning with hard aid by Nami.
So Donflamingo was weaker than Cracker, who in turn is massively weaker than Big Mom. But Law still manages to fight her (and Kaido) in almost equal standing, tanking many more attacks than he did from Donflamingo...
Why are the Yonko so feared if rookies weaker than your third commander can raise to their level in merely one month?
That time is completely wrong
Awakened law and forget he did start the fight with doflamingo and Fuji.
You're missing one thing. Law could beat Dolflamingo it's just he was afraid of him. Think of it like a son afraid of fighting their father even though they could theoretically win on paper it would be wrong to underestimate the emotional turmoil they'd be going through.
Law wasn't afraid of Big Mom and thus could fight closer to his full potential.
@@langadube9611nicely said
Does that mean we can stop with trying to put people on tiers of strength as the main way to gauge MUs and instead judge them via their abilities?
I don't think the Tobiroppo are that strong, I don't think any of them come close to Katakuri in terms of strength(excluding the All Stars of course). I don't think Ulti "forces" Luffy to use Gear 4, I think Luffy just wanted to end the fight immediately, just like how Shanks immediately obliterated Kidd with Divine Departure. Luffy base form can hold down a struggling Yamato and Yamato can destroy Ulti, and this is literal minutes after Ulti holding Luffy so you can't argue that "Luffy got a power boost". I understand how you can say that Doflamingo is a major victim of power creep, because of how Doflamingo during Marineford was seen as stronger than Yonko Commanders like Jozu yet after Dressrosa, Upper Yonko Commanders like Cracker or Katakuri are now stronger than the Gear 4 that defeated Doflamingo. But I think your scaling just bad if you think any of the Tobiroppo are stronger than or even close to as strong as Doflamingo or Katakuri. I think Doflamingo is roughly similar power to Jack, and Katakuri is a bit weaker than King but is beyond Queen. I don't get where your idea of Queen>Katakuri came from but it is just not true if You looked at One Piece in an objective manner. I think your weird power scaler mindset and recency bias is falsely interpreting immense power creep even though it is somewhat reasonable in my view. Even though you think I'm "in denial", you are taking little feats and overexaggerating it. Chopper blocking a Big Mom hit is impressive but Big Mom doesn't always hit with full force. Big Mom had to hit the gate of the Wano prison multiple times to break it, yet it took Kidd one punch to break the same gate. This either means Kidd's offense>Big Mom's offense or Big Mom is just not trying when doing causal attacks. Sometimes Oda just downgrades Yonko level character's attacks just so some of our Strawhats just don't die 1000 times over, like when Sengoku becomes the Buddha and punches Gear 3 Giant Balloon Luffy during Marineford or when Jinbei could block Akainu's attacks using the Leidenfrost effect also during Marineford.
Yeah, Luffy also went Gear 4th against a battleship and a Number during the raid. It really doesn't mean anything.
sorry to tell you but ulti is probably the second strongest tobi roppo after who's who definitely njot the weakest one
Power cliffing isnt such a problem, it more about what Oda wants to say, if it improves the story or adds to it. People cant enjoy the story beczuse they keep caring and looking at powerscaling, and Tylernead keeps forgetting narrative, what oda wants to show, he neglects that and acts like it math where it is a lot more complex than just "luffy gear 4 in wcl is than..."
Odas powerscaling is clean, all this smack talk just proves people cant power scale correctly!!
its all about creating suspense and exploring themes, if the enemies seem insurmaountable its more suspsenseful because we're interested to see how characters overcome these odds while also giving oda opportunities to explore themes like inherited will, overcoming onself and so on.
logic, maths, flow of time isn't as important as emotions and being able to relate the contents of the story to one's own life.
people punch battle ships to increase their physical strength, trying to powerscale is a pointless endeavor.
@@Killerbee_McTitties I completely agree
i hate that this isn't the general consensus of the community
@@ab7755 I think it isn't but the active community online is a lot more power scaled focused, my friends irl are way more chill about it
Not to mention Usopp became a literal God xD Man...Just imagine how strong Sogeking must be by now o.O
It gets even worse when we start talking about law and kid
I feel sorry for Usopp
I'm sick of these Ulti takes, seriously. She holds base Luffy for a minute, and everybody starts overrating her.
Luffy wasn't even using any of his new stuff against her. He was totally repressed. Base, no ryuo... base Luffy is never more powerful than G4 Luffy, even prior G4 Luffy. It's a transformation designed specifically to give an insane power boost. Sure, he could do more damage in base with ryuo or ACoC, but that's only due to it doing internal damage. That's not being stronger per se. Against Ulti, he was using none of that, strength and basic armament only.
I just avoid being overly reliant on power scaling when it comes to fights within One Piece. At the end of the day, the narrative takes more priority over power scaling. For example, I still think WCI Luffy would either need G4 to beat Doflamingo, or it would be a very close fight if he just used G2 + 3 as that is the way I see Doflamingo being presented narratively.
U know i agree with ur scalling chain no doubt but from a narrative standpoint it just doesn't make sense.
We know Big Mom and Kaido have been rivals for decades and it only makes sense for them to have fought each other in that time. We also know that Kat and King have been the top guys of their crews for decades too, so for the Big Mom crew to be so much weaker it just isn't compatible with the story told. Everyone on Big Moms crew thinks Kat is invincible there is no way the flying six are on the same power lvl.
Again from what is shown i completely agree that it should be the case but on that one i just have to go with the narrative so that it makes sense.
Luffy needed to inflate in gear 4 to get out of the grab, not to defeat her
3:38 Ulti is arguably one the STRONGEST tobi roppos wtf. She took one the the strongest Big Mom attack...
shes the strongest and with a big difference even the second strongest(drake) lost to a finger pistol while ulti tanked 2 thunder bagua easily and like u said took 1 of big moms storngest attacks and kept moving
Ulti should never be up for consideration for weakest tobi roppo when Page One exists. If anything she could be debated to be the strongest, at least durability wise, cause she is way above them, except maybe Drake. She got hit by BM and got back up to fight a little more, meanwhile the rest went down and stayed down from attacks from the mid-tier strawhats.
drake lost to a finger pistol while ulti took 2 thunder bagua and was fine and then took 1 of big moms strongest attacks after the 2 thunder bagua and was still moving she's easily the strongest toppi robo and its not even close even fighting base luffy without ryuo makes her above all the others
I wanna know what your hairline looks like with all this ammount of headcannon gyatdam
lets go new tylearned video
G4 Luffy didn't "barely beat Doflamingo" bro was destroying him with almost no sweat, je was only limited by time
He would’ve lost if he didn’t have a whole country to protect him he couldn’t beat doflamingo in 10 minutes so he couldn’t beat him at all at that time
@@qdakid7776 as I said, only limited by time, when he was in G4, Doffy didn't do anything to Luffy while each of his attacks were devastating Doflamingo
another thing we gotta mention as well regarding the Power Creep is how much time has actually passed in the One Piece World since Luffy started his Journey.
Including the 2 years timeskip, Luffy has been a Pirate for just 4 years.
And now he is Yonkou Level.
That is the true power creep.
Then again, Luffy is like a historical figure in the One Piece World, like Alexander the Great or Napoleon Bonaparte.
People that suddenly pop up and in a few years completely change how the World works.
Pre and post timeskip are both 3 months more or less, so that's 6 months, not 2 years
He's been a pirate for less then 3 years and less then a year or active pirating
@lordyeezusberry3968 it's not about beeing a mythical Zoan, just a matter of beeing a protagonist ahah. Zoro isn't a Mythical Zoan or a genetic freak and is one of the strongest in the world right now
@@CR7ThorntonHeath even more reasons to explains the Power Creep.
luffy was already strong and had feats against some strong people but his biggest problem was not having haki so learinig haki from a haki master for 2 years adding the experience from fighting the likes of katakuri and training his haki even more in wano makes his power ups not that crazy especially in shonen logic u literally have 15 year old kids with 2 months of training get to the point of being the strongest in the verse
Completely agree
Most people before wano are now chopper victims 💀💀💀💀💀
Nah he’s still hakiless and still isn’t over Doflamingo
@@itsukifrfr7222 hakiless..... and clashed with big mom and held off commanders.
@@Spirall445doflamingo could easily do the same for a few hits befote getting trashed like chopper did, I don't understand you power sclaers. One piece isn't dragonball
@@Spirall445
Doflamingo: stomps the middle trio and weak trio
Jack: low diffs middle trio and no diffs weak trio
Katakuri solos all strawhats except monster trio
Cracker blitzes Chopper
Garp got fatally injured dishonourably
what if its not linear like you think lol. In real life the top fighters facing each other is never x>y its always a toss up.
Wow great theory unfortunately this is NOT real life LMFAO
LOOOOL I know its not real life, but i just used it as an example to show you what i ment by not linear. @@Tylearned
You should do a video of Enel vs Rob Lucci I've seen alot of people hyping up Enel again and he needs to be put in his place
My guy said Enel needs to be put in his place. Poor Enel 😂😂
I thought it was crazy when chopper blocked Big moms attack in WC while she was chasing them on a boat
Is Ulti really the weakest Tobi roppo?
Also didn't Queen admit he was just putting on a show when he got hit by chopper?
Bro. Just bc ulti grabbed luffy doesn’t mean she scales to katakuri lmao
this shit is why i dont respect power scalers fr, this whole video is goofy and people who sit around debating who could beat who need to learn to have fun and enjoy their cartoons lmao
Bro really wildin off that one instance.
dawg its as simple as ulti >prerooftop base luffy>>>>>act1 g4 luffy > katakuri
@@oregonnnnnnnnnnnn the problem with your scaling is y’all forget Perospero was still On onigashma and was directly compared to Jack who is stronger than Ulti. Katakuri is said to be stronger than Pero even by the rest of the BM pirates when they were discussed if BM died who would take over
It’s like they read with their eyes closed😂
Just no. It isnt power creep its been running for years and this level of power has always been the goal if he is to become king of the pirates
remember show not tell? so we're not gonna show you and im not telling shit, it just is my guy. - oda 2023
lost me when saying Ulti is the weakest tobi roppo
Why doesn't anyone even considers the possibility that Katakuri got stronger since WCI
We haven't seen him since then, it's totally possible
That's head cannon lol katakuri is in his prime and has been in his prime for a while have you ever considered the possibility that's he's just reached his limit 😂
@@CR7ThorntonHeathyep i believe that crocodile and lucci were at prime in pretime skip but lucci got awakened and croc has yet not used his haki or maybe he don't have any haki left
but thats just ur head cannon there is no proof u have to back it up you could say arlong is now yonko level but that would be head cannon
@@ishami5004 Btruh no one would consider arlong has younku level not even your
@@Animessloth its an example u cant understand that
I believe one piece will have at least 2 more moments of power creep before the end 😂.
One probably when Mihawk, shanks and Dragon show what they are capable of...
And during the last battle against the final villian
Also blackbeard and akainu
@@animoments8969 yeah . I think the admirals have to show their full strength at a point .
Black Beard in my opinion Seems like a candidate for end game villians ..along side Imu..
Whoever it is I think it's gonna be epic
@@gman8477 At some point there will be a dozen or more Kaido level(ish) fighters duking it out, so that'll definitely be one case of power creep. And likely another once Imu rocks up with gloves off. So yep, at least 2 seems about right.
@@welshlout3400 I guess so
People really like to hate the loved characters
Anything loved will recieve hate its laws of the universe examples bieng anime
Interesting video, but I didn’t think the idea holds all that well to be honest.
Consider crocodile, who was beat by base luffy + a water bottle. Oda wanting him back in the story made him survive Marineford, despite so many characters there theoretically being able to one shot him based on the previous scaling
There is also Shanks losing an arm to fodder. Ace’s power being all over the place and Marco being a completely different beast between Marineford and Wano
The scaling of power in one piece is relative to the arc as far as I can tell. Katakuri was in the second tier during whole cake just after big mom, if he was teleported to Wano somehow he’d also be in the second tier there and be on par with king, because that’s what the plot would demand. Basically power in one piece is determined by what the story needs, not just previous feats
Crocodile only really used his ability in marineford people overhype tf out of his feats and clashing with doffy who wasnt serious at all he didnt even use haki
I have no excuse for shanks, Aces power isnt "all over the place" when we barley saw him fight only against bb and bb aint weak at all, Marco has always been a beast, basically what im saying is you are only right about the shanks one
The fight starts and Sanji disappears 🥶
Bruh I’m pretty sure ulti isn’t the weakest. And the only straw hats that can actually beat her is probably franky, jinbei, and monster trio
🤓“Well you actually have to take into account individual powers”🤓
Ur the 🤓
One Piece powerscalers really do be looking for any explaination besides a narrative driven fight
If there’s one thing about anime it’s that it’s not consistent. Straw hats will struggle again and mfs will say that opponent was stronger than kaido
Saying that there is a Power Creep in One Piece are for those who dont understand how power level trully are in this world
Implying that Chopper would easely beat Queen with the picture you choose to use to select the video is already a clue that you don't get the power levels of the manga
You might want to get your facts straight to get your point across better. No implication was made that Chopper could beat Queen. What was stated was that Chopper was able to draw blood against Queen which he shouldn't be able to do since Queen scales higher than Dressrosa Doffy.
@@redroman4214 dude this was like a year ago 🤣
@@stevecavalle yeah but I just saw it now so just treat it as if it wasn't a year ago or you can move on with your life
I thought zoro said they just get naturally stronger through each island they go to and just wrote it off as anime logic bcz most anime power creeps are fucking insane
This, combined with Haki Blooming and the passive boosts in strength they are supposed to get from Sanji’s attack cuisine, although we don’t see it that often.
@@PandaDonG lol
I agree with the concept but putting ulti above doffy is crazy.
I guess decided to not read Chopper's explanation of his power increase both in Fishman island arc and in Wano.
This entire argument gets disproven by Katakuri > Perospero. Because katakuri simply has to be > him narratively. And perospero is portrayed as a parallel to jack against neko and inu. By your own logic tobiroppo members should be no where near jack and thus katakuri should fold any of them. But This interpretation is just wrong because katakuri isnt below or even equal to snakeman luffy. He perception blitzes him, is faster, stronger, and literally does more damage to himself by stabbing himself than luffy did to him the entire fight so is heavily fatigued DUE TO HIS OWN ATTACK. Katakuri is > Snakeman luffy. Queen doesnt restrain luffy at all... in fact he gets one shotted by bigmom WHILE HES TRANSFORMED and it wasnt even a named attack like thunder bagua. Mind you luffy contends bigmom during wci... and bigmom as no reason to get stronger. He also blocked her attack during udon in gear 3. Idk where you got that udon luffy is like much stronger than wci that's never shown, implied, or stated to be the case. So katakuri just unironically has better feats than queen. Lastly ulti being the weakest tobiroppo member makes me question if we read/watched the same fights she blatantly does better than page one against luffy. Has the best durability feat out of any of kaidos crew besides MAYBE king via bigmoms attacks. She perception blitzes nami who should have similar perception and reactions to every straw hats but zoro sanji and maybe jinbe. And she overpowered base luffy likely scales to gear 2 luffy. You can make the argument luffy got stronger that doesnt mean much since katakuri was never a equal to him he was always stronger so that alone doesnt mean luffy > katakuri. That being said the absolute worse case for katakuri still puts him over jack definitively and probably over queen as well. But in actuality hes king level
actually cracker and smoothie are both stronger than perospero and kata is stronger than both by a big difference so yeah that just add ups to make this guys argument even worst
"Ulti is the weakest member of the Tobi Roppo"
Based on what!?! This video is insane.
Whachu mean ulti is the weakest💀
I think its not a situation of "oh that guy is hitting stronger than before"is a situation of circunstantial fighting,a fight is not just about strenght
Kaido is ridicously strong yes,but his main thing is his OVERWHELMING RESISTANCE,kaido is already durable but in dragon form his "scales" make him a living tank,also kaido main way of ofense on dragon-mode is fire wich is not as effective as cutting or slashing,he is also so massive that he cant dodge on that form,later we see him using his hibrid form so he can focus on hitting with his spikes/haki,and so he can keep atleast tryng to dodge while maintaining part of the scales durability,and the lightning of kaido doesnt work on luffy.
I would argue that for a big part of the fight kaido wanst haki-blooming too,he only even began to struugle on the middle of the fight,while luffy was training and strugling the whole fucking arc.
Like i genuinely believe that rob luccy would struggle against kaido on hybrid form,luccy main thing is his tactical power and speed,kaido can controle the espace with his lighting, fire and tornados,pressuring him for a pure-strenght and resistance fight where considering kaido keep his ground against gear 5 luffy,he would have a decent shot againt luccy
Every island they go to they get stronger
It’s all fun and games till perospero pulls up and him beating neko who is stated to be above the tobiropo is still stated weaker than kata so kata beats any tobiropo member
i love Katakuri slander.
Ong
He is well written compared a lot of antagonists so I'm not sure why, its like slandering good quality food because of the smaller quantity
@@stilljakernoobbecause of his fanbase who thinks he can beat wano opponents
@@infamousknight6265he can seeing as his weaker brother was doing just fine
And another pages is added to ‘mangakas are not powerscalers’
In defense of these strawhats, minus Brook, not everyone’s full potential was shown or realized (minus Usopp who hasn’t really gotten any stronger past Dressrosa). The power creep, I will not deny, but also I won’t say it doesn’t add up
Where did you get the idea that the Tobi Ropo are “many times more powerful” than Doffy that’s ridiculous
he loves making shit up the fact that doffy negged sanji proves his logic wrong because even base sanji before the germa power up wont lost to a toppi robo
Where did you get ulti is the weakest tobi roppo member from?😭😭 she’s literally the strongest
What?😭
@@Tylearned she has the best feats out of all of them, facing bm and luffy and yamato
@@Tylearned she also doesn’t fear kaido
Chopper was literally doing 0 damage to Queen lol what are you talking about. Also Doffy is wayyyyy stronger than the toby ropo, he would be part of the all stars if he was an actual crew member. Def exagerating
Weird cherry picked examples. Some good points but overall this vid just misses the mark tbh. The Ulti clash was nothing, Luffy just underestimated the need to us any of his power. Katakuri is destroying Ulti 1 on 1.
So that means rob lucci and kaku is extremely powerful then and whomever the straw going to fight next.