Filtertrons Vs Humbuckers What Is The Difference
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Filtertrons Vs Humbuckers What Is The Difference
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Thanks so much to everyone who joined us recently. Thank you to everyone who has been a subscriber for a long time. I have contacted the potential winner of the 30,000 sub contest and I'll announce probably on monday once I hear back. We will be doing this again soon. We will also be doi.g another smaller giveaway at the end of the month. Thanks for your support. If you want to help out Patreon.com/dylantalkstone thanks again. This is JIST GETTING STARTED
I watched this video 3 times and I still don't understand how a Filtertron is constructed. Maybe I'm just dense. I don't get it, held together by friction? Huh? Friction where? You seemed to just ramble on about a bunch of different pickups but didn't concentrate on the filtertron and left me with more questions than answers.
Thanks for watching it three times!!!
@@DylanTalksTone Ok, I'm kind of getting after the 4th time, maybe. I didn't get much sleep and I'm still working on my first cup of coffee, lol. Maybe I'll have a smoke and try it a 5th time, haha! If you just laid out all the parts on a table I'm sure I would have gotten it the first time. That red arrow is pointing to an airspace, or is there something between coils? God, I must be dense.
tiki trash I don’t quite understand how they are held together by friction of the screws (pole pieces) are also holding it together. That would be a mechanical construction versus a friction construction. In case if the rest, I understand the inherent differences between the ‘tron style and the PAF. I think you probably understand the difference but aren’t getting the concept of the construction itself and that’s what’s getting you confused? Seems like the difference is in the construction and we know what the method is with smaller coils and a huge magnet. Maybe a separate vid that is just about the construction would help clarify it more.
good one to cover
I wonder if someone looked outside their window, saw a person filming, and said, "I'll bet he's talking about different types of hum cancelling guitar pickups."
Or maybe they're sitting beside their window staring at him
with the music blasting in the background pretending he conducting the oyster because he looks Lawrence Welk.
It'd be interesting to see you compare regular Fender single-coils with the Noiseless stuff they put in the Ultra and Deluxe series
I second this
I really don't like the noiseless ones. Takes away from tge strats charm imo
@@SirEnVo Somehow you are right. I have used Kinmans exclusively for many years, and they sound very good, but they don´t sound like real Strats.
Agreed!
I'm looking at getting the Fender Noiseless for a Thinline 69 style Tele I am building. Haven't decided yet on Alnico II or Alnico V.
I can’t stop seeing that tree as your hair. Ha! Anyway, how about you do a video on the DeArmonds?
Lmao
Haha
Thank god! I was wondering if i was just weird or if anybody else noticed it... Most likely I'm weird and others noticed it as well.
MostlyTorso the tree makes his hair look like Buzz Osbourne. But I do think he should do a vid of DeArmonds
Like he electrocuted himself ☺
Please cover the "Gold foil" issue.
It's been pissing me off since they were "rediscovered" and suddenly became "boutique"...with the associated price.
ravenslaves I've seen cheaper gold foils on eBay but not sure they are actually build the way Teisco or whoever made them made them !
Wow, learned so much. Have a Gretch with them. Totally unique sound, lower output yes but that is what the amp volume is for. Buttery beautiful cleans and low gain
Oh Dylan I was that guy requesting this! Thank you! 🎸
I wonder what how Dylan's neighbors react to seeing him standing near the curb, gesturing, and talking enthusiastically...
...to no one.
Neck position of a Telecaster - YES. I have the TV Jones Filtertron style neck pickup in my Tele, and combined with a very bitey Tele bridge pickup ('62 imitation) they just sound amazing.
I think the music industry blew up was because we had an enormous amount of trained personnel leaving the service. These guys repaired all kinds of electronics for the service and we had the manufacturing facilities to make anything that could be sold. That and the celebration of the war being over that lit up the music world, radios and speakers got better and the audiophiles were born. My father in law helped the Navy in two special projects. First, as a matter of necessity was surface contact radar, which allowed destroyers to hunt German Uboats at night when they were running on the surface to charge their batteries. Then he worked on radio ranging and triangulation to help aircraft find their targets or their way back home after their nighttime bombing runs. After the war he worked for RCA where he and his partner designed a transistor for them. Having completed their job 6 months ahead of schedule, RCA gave the men the use of their lab to do whatever they wanted for six months, or they could just go home and take six months pay. They chose to take time in the lad and they invented the Op-amp. The work they did was the property of RCA, and the company thought it was far too advanced for any device they could market, so they shelved. In the mean time my father in law and his partner had worked with the University of Pennsylvania to make the semi conductor material for the products they had designed, so when RCA shelved their Op-Amp the Professor they had been working with published a paper on the design. A few years later and Texas Instruments took that design, modified it, patented their variation on the Op-Amp and started pumping calculators which led to the IBM computer and on to the PC that sits in every household. I believe similar things happened everywhere in the electronics industry, including pickups for guitars!
Thanks for another great video explaining the difference between filter trans and humbuckers, and I like your idea of running one in the middle of a tele! I’d want a 5 way switch so I could split the coils like this. Position 1, the neck pick up. Position 2, the neck pickup and the upper coil of the filtertron. Pos3, both coils of the filter tron. Pos4 the bottom coil of the tron and the bridge pickup. And position 5, the bridge pickup by itself. That sounds like a fun way to go!
Congrats on all the new subs Dylan, you’ve helped me feel confident doing work on my own guitar, and you’ve given me a wealth answers to the “whys” and “hows” that I wouldn’t have ever thought to ask. Thanks!
This is now my favorite guitar tech talk on the net.. Thank you Dylan!
and right on camera a fedex truck skips to a parallel universe at 3:26 and reappears a minute later in opposite direction. Magic!
It jumps back through the wormhole at 4:28, lol
Can you please do a video on the difference a cover makes on a humbucker?
I have one of the Gretch's with the pickups you're talking about.
They're called "Broadtrons" I think, and it's basically a box-y PAF type pickup.
I actually *LOVE* them in the bridge, but find them very dull in the neck because it's just the same exact pickup.
Great for adding thickness on big overdriven parts in the studio.
I have these in my streamliner (great value for money guitar, check it out) and took half the pole pieces out the neck pickup, brightens it up lots!
I love my broadtrons 🤷
Really like this video series. Probably the best presented info on the more esoteric pick-up types available.
Wow, great video, I recently got a TMG Tele with a a p-90 in the bridge and I want to put a Filtertron in the neck. So thanks for mentioning that configuration, Im excited to try that!
I won't be able to watch this, when it goes live because of work, but i just wanted to say YESSSS!
Dylan! Since I just discovered your channel this year, 2022, I have a lot of your content to view. You have a knack for de-mystifying, describing, and explaining in detail how things work. Thank you for posting!
Thanks for describing the inside of the Tron, some odd stuff going on there. But but you never said why a regular humbucker is not just a wider tron.
I always appreciate the info. Im kind of drawn towards small humbuckers. They sound right for my playing. So I might have to give these a try..i thought I had. But you showed exactly the guitar I tried them on. My first guitar had (awful) top mount pickups no routing! My first real guitar had carvin m22 distortion pickups still have and love them. I don't know why people hate on low output pickups though amps have plenty of drive these days.
From Leo: I have Filtertron equiped Gretsch's. that are back to early 1960's. The collector price of the 1954/1955 Chet Atkins models with the hand wound Ray Butts pickups are way above my comfort level. The HiLo (single coils) are amazingly articulate and loud, especially compared to other single coils of the time. I still like them. String height adjustment on a Filtertron (or DeArmond) is done with proper spacers, not springs and sponges. The covers pretty much hold the Filtertron together. I do adjust the screws if I need to balance the volume. Never had one fall apart or rattle. Most of them are solid mounted to the wood, so it cannot move. You are correct about some of the Streamliner series having the Fender influenced humbuckers. They even mount like a regular humbucker, they are voiced for a more crisp, open sound leaning toward a Filtertron. The new BroadTrons on the Gretsch Jet guitars are shaped and sized like a FIlterTron, but are clean voiced more like a 1960's humbucker. The is a little disappointing to a Gretsch fan, but they do make the guitars appeal to a far wider group of customers. It is fun to look at all the different ways that people figured out to make magnetic pickups over the years. I have taken apart vintage Japanese pickups where they did not even have a magnet, just a bunch on magnetized iron dust in a blob of glue on a paper wound coils
Filtertron clean in the bridge it's both crispy and sweet and jangly. It's like taking a 1950's Telecaster bridge pickup and making it noiseless.
"Fight me in the comment." Lmao - I love that. Good information here.
I have a 1959 Gretsch with 1 Hi/low Tron. I thought something was wrong when I try and use it in a effect pedal to tune. It is so weak the tuner cannot pickup much. I check its ohms, 3.2. Wow, but when I run through a boost, with some reverb and effects, sound is SO BIG. Love it.
My next guitar will be a 6120 T Brian Setzer 59 Smoke. I'm getting rid of everything except my 1950's Tele. Thanks for the vid. Your feeding the fire! Fan the flames!
I have G2622T and yes, filtertrons are not the same size as the broadtron pickups. Such a hassle to swap them out.
I would be interested in going deeper into types of Filtertrons such as the differences between a TV Jones Classics and Gretsch Filtertron and also the differences between Blacktop Filtertron and TV Jones Powertron. Thx.
Pete Townsend used a Gretsch 6120 on Won't Get Fooled Again. Pretty much the complete opposite tone that we normally associate with a Filtertron equipped guitar.
Thanks for another great video. I really appreciate the way you take subjects that could easily digress in to tech talk that would lose the average "Joe" in a minute or two, and keep to basic, common terms that just about anybody can understand. That's a trait of a good teacher.
Here’s a great video idea.. can you dissect what makes “gold foils” gold foils. Maybe some information about different types. I know there are dozens of types.
As a devout vintage Harmony enthusiast, that video would make me tingly in my nethers. There's a lot of people selling "gold foils," and none of them sound very authentic. I haven't tried the lollar version, but that's a stupid amount of money to pay for a recreation of something that you can still occasionally find for cheap at a flea market, and I'm not willing to front that.
robotsongs how would you describe the tone?
@@carlosu1021 To what, the originals? If so, I'd say very strong, very clear, somewhat glassy, excellently balanced when you roll the tone back a bit. In some ways and in some situations they sound like piezos - very "acoustic" - which can be good or bad depending on the setup. Gold foils are a lot like the guitars that originally had them-- they can be temperamental, difficult, and can take effort to make work, but when they do, goddamn watch out. You want to hit that funky 70s Motown or late 60s lo-fi jazz-funk sound? They're your ticket.
as far as i'm aware of, there are two unrelated families of pickups that are "gold foils", one is the DeArmond/Harmony type, the other is a Japanese/Teisco type... Almost all of the newer gold foils are trying to be like the second type. I think Curtis Novak might be the only one doing a repro of the DeArmond type.
lunarpollen I love both kinds. If I had to describe their sound I’d say they have the output of p90s but with a clearer high end that can be very chimney style times.
As usual fantastic content. Dylan you have made so much sense and built my confidence in building my guitars. I'm so happy with them.
Its special to play something you've put together, no need for high priced guitars.
I really wanted this one. Always very curious to know the difference between 'trons and regular humbuckers.
I think you gave the right explanation bout the difference between Filtertrons and PAF's. At least someone that was able to tell these differences... Good job man !
Thanks for the detail; I've been trying to find out what the guts actually were.
Mini-humbucker footprints, in their various types, are great stuff. (Gibson minis, Filtertrons, Hot Rails, etc.) You can get a big sound AND the string definition from a narrow sensing area.
Was waiting for this. Thanks so much. Great info. Yes, please do a gold foil episode. I would also love to see the difference between Bass and Guitar pickups. What is different between a single coil (Jbass/start), humbucker(Pbass/Music Man/PAF), etc. Thanks Dylan, am loving your channel so much.
Hi Dylan, do you have an opinion on Guitar Fetish (GFS) pickups? They make a filtertron style that i want to try but I'm afraid it might just be a regular humbucker
The reason I'm afraid these GFS "GF'Tron" pickups might be regular humbuckers is the high DC output. Their vintage spec set is wound to 6.2k bridge and 5.8k neck with A2 magnets
I have been looking at upgrading my stock ceramic pickups and have had so many questions about what the difference is with the different types of humbuckers and what makes them sound different-- and why some of the budget models don't actually sound the way they are supposed to.
I know with my Gretsch G2220 bass, the "humbuckers" didn't have bobbins, they were just rail magnets with a single overwound pickup and two ceramic magnets underneath.
Dylan, what makes the different ‘tron pickups different from one another? There’s the filter, dyna, fidela. There are others too but is there something specific that makes these different from one another or is it just the amount of winds on there or something?
Yeah, I still don't get it. This video was really vague he just seemed to ramble on about a whole bunch of stuff that seemed to have no relevance to Filtertrons and I still don't get how the F-Tron is constructed. Why couldn't he just concentrate on the pickups Gretsch used? That would have made a lot more sense to me. Basically, he was trying to tell us how a Creative MP3 player is constructed by telling us how an iPod is constructed.
tiki trash no, he did get into the construction and it helped greatly, really. Maybe you didn’t finish the video? My question was what is the difference between the different types of ‘trons. I do get the difference between them and regular humbuckers, now, but amongst themselves what is the difference you know. That’s what I’d like to know now that we know the difference between a ‘tron and a PAF.
I have a home build Jupiter Thunderbird with vintage Filtertrons, and i love that sound. Thanks for the video!
What's the deal with G&L's Z coil pickups?
Very interesting & informative. Can you compare Rickenbacker 50's & 60's toaster pickups and the "Hi Gain" post 1970 pickups please ?
DeArmond pups on the 5126 are among the best single coils ever featured on electric guitars regardless of cost. The sparkle silver 5126 have long been discontinued and now valued at twice their retail when new if you could find one for sale.
what's the difference between a broadtron and filtertron sound wise?
Jim B I’m no expert but to my ear broadtrons sounds similar to a traditional paf humbucker and a filtertron sounds spanky and twangy close to a telecaster.
Christopher Kaesemeyer
yeah I thought that might be the case. I've removed half the pole pieces to take away the lack of definition in the hope that it sounds closer to a filtertron. sounds loads better but don't know if it sounds like a filtertron!
Thanks so much for covering this dude!! Been so keen to see this video ❤
Congrats on hitting 30k! Thanks for explaining all the cool pickup specs.
Rickenbacker invented a hum bucking pickup back in the 1930’s but they didn’t bother parenting it because they felt it distorted the signal too much.
does not matter it's still a pickup ...
A Filtertron in the neck of a Tele is amazing! I did it on a Squier HH tele. I swapped the humbuckers for a GFS Retro-tron (similar idea, I'm sure not as good as the real deal) and a GFS surf 90, which remind me of the DeArmond pickups I had in an instrument I stupidly sold years ago. Anyway, I would love to see you do a video of those in a Tele. It's a sick combo, and people need to know about it! :)
GFS really deserves a lot more cred
Pete T recorded who’s next with the Gretsch, so the filtertrons deff rock,
Here’s a good question for you: are all acoustic bridge pins generally the same size? Can you swap out for whatever you’d like? Is there a standard size? Does it vary by manufacturer?
Thanks!
Nope they're not. Bridge pins often are about the same size, but almost never the same. They even vary from guitar to guitar by the same manufacturer (at least to a teeny minimal extend). If you're thinking about swapping them, check the manual (often available online) of the pins. It often contains the measurements. If in doubt: Ask your local guitar-workshop. Sometimes they can modify the pins or the pin-holes. Hope it helps.
You answer a lot of questions I've always had on your channel. I feel that finding you on TH-cam was a very lucky thing
Drinking game: Every time Dylan says the word HOLE, you take a drink. HOLE word count: 5! I'm drunk already.
I’ve learned so much from your videos wish I found these earlier on. Keep crushing it!
I agree the old stuff is well old. You would be the one to build goodbpick ups. I allways thaught it was bad sounding to unscrew the pick up screes
What do you think about Gretsch's MegaTrons? The ones they put in the G5135 Corvette.
To me, they are not really filtertrons but I really love them. They have sound somewhere in the middle of the road between a Tele and an SG, at least to my ears.
Yep. FACT! Impedance does NOT determine how hot your pickup is. My HS is only 4.7 but it will kick a lot of humbuckers.
The tree behind you( I'm not saying it's aliens....but)😂🤣😅
beginning guitarist here..luv yur channel, my mum bought me a schecter ultra 3, seems like a GREAT guitar 👍🙋
Thanks Dylan. Another awesome video. Great info.
Loved this video! Got here because I'm debating between a Gretsch White Falcon 55 and a 59. Essentially comes down to the TV Jones vs the Filtertrones pickups. I find the TV Jones incredible and the Filtertrones great as well. However the Filtertons doesn't have the rich and crisp top end and definition of the TV Jones's which I absolutely love. I guess that's due to the fact that the TV Jones are just single coils?
Dang, I missed the 30k subs contest by 50k subs and 3 years.
What about the Megatrons - what are those in relation to Filtertrons? Not to be confused with the TV Jones Magnatrons, Megatrons were factory installed in the Gretsch Electromatic Corvettes/CVTs. But I'm not sure what makes them distinct.
Gibson just barely got the patent first, and Butts just barely finished his prototype first.
It's not really cut and dry. It's also not like Edison taking credit for the lightbulb, either. Lover and Butts were literally working on their designs at the same time, with no chance of anyone taking the other's ideas. In fact, they both came up with such similar ideas simply because of basic electrical theory, tbh.
GREAT clip - super informative.
Thank you very much.
Keep 'em coming !!!
Mostly the amount of wire and the magnet. The geometry is a bit different too.
That was my question in the last vídeo! Thanks Dylan!
well since you mentioned it - a video about gold foils would be really helpful - they have some interesting tonal characteristics..
Thank you for a brief and very accurate description of these pickups
What is the different between all Gibson different humbuckers that have used over the years in a Les Paul guitar?
You just need to look at the old cheap catalogue guitars (teisco, audition, etc.) For pick ups that aren't as they seem, some 'humbuckers' were just a single coil in a chromed boxed with wood to take the excess space where the second coil 'wood' have gone lol
Hi Dylan! I like your videos and i found it is very informative! Im wondering how pickup works on semi hollow guitar, do they pickup sound of acoustic resonance? Does tonewood affect semi hollow guitar?
Can you review the Tim Shaw Custom Shop Filtertron pickup that was featured in the Fender Rarities Koa top Stratocaster? It has what almost looks like a P-rail configuration, and I can't find any specs for this thing. Would love to know more about that and the gold foils that are used in the neck and middle positions as well! Thanks!
Tesla and Edison debate comparatively
I'd rather hear the difference between 2-stroke and 4-stroke outboard motors on a quiet mountain lake on a Summer morning.
Lol. I'm down for a 2 stroke and 4 Stroke Dirtbike. No w that's a video I can get behind.
Why are you wasting your time here. Do what you want, unless you're in the Pen! And as far as your comment goes I'd rather hear the distant sound of oars as opposed to a 2 or 4 stroke oil slick producing outboard on a clear mountain lake!!! I'm crazy like that, I think oil and water aren't a good mix for the environment.
I have an old harmony rocket from 68 with the mustache pickup, single coil, and the high e string seems weaker. Could I get away with raising the height on that thing using the screw?
Actually, a Filtertron doesn't quite fit in the same space as a HiLotron- the second bobbin/screw assembly requires a bigger hole to accommodate. I found this out when, years ago, I installed Filtertrons in my 1966 Tennessean. After discovering, to my horror, that routing would be required, I trusted my guitar to my very capable friend Greg, who masterfully fired up the router while I closed my eyes and prayed. When the sawdust had settled, I saw that there were now 2 perfect Filtertron sized holes in the top of my Tennessean. The rest, by comparison, was easy. The sound was magic, and I now had what I considered to be the perfect Tennessean.
[Having sharpened the tines on their pitchforks, the angry mob lights their torches. This sacrilege cannot stand. "Heretic! Blasphemer!
Witch! Wiiiiiiiiiiiitch!"]
Ok, got to (literally) run! They're getting close...
I replaced the humbuckers in my g5120 with filtertrons. Had buy new mounting rings and fabricate an adapter to mount them. It was a nice upgrade. I still desire to move the bridge pickup closer to bridge. Would have modify the guitar. It probably won't happen.
Great video. The skinny Les Paul Deluxe pickup (not the P90)... Is it a humbugging pickup? They always seem to sound very clean. Same pickup on the original Epiphone Riveria. What is the story with it?
Hi Dylan! Can you compare a regular strat single to a Dano lipstick pickup? That'd be great!
I really enjoyed this video. I'm just learning to play guitar and I dig both the twangy early country/rockabilly sort of sound that seems to go along with hollow-body guitars and Humbuckers, but I also really like the twangy reverb of surf guitar and Stratocasters. I bought two kit guitars of each type to build, but it's the Humbuckers that sent me down a rabbit hole. I wanted to put better pickups in the hollow-body so I was wondering about the difference between Humbuckers and Filtertrons, and then I was seeing Humbuckes with two rows of screws like the cheap pickups that came with my kit, then I'm seeing ones with only one row of screws but they say they're dual coil, then there's ones that are single coil but look like those dual coil ones, and WOW, I'm confused! Your video explained the difference so well and I really liked the little history lesson worked in there. There's a lot of terminology that I don't understand, but I'm a history nerd and I do love that early twangy sound and the later surf-style offshoot. Thanks - I subscribed!
I see plenty of complaints that gretch humbuckers don't sound like their filtertrons. But, how are they vs say, a PAF?
Why doesn't Gretsch put Filtertrons in their lower guitars or something closer than a generic humbucker pickup? I assumed it was Filtertron because looks like it
Another great video & wow that is ALOT of diffrence between the 2 styles of pickups !!
Please please please do a video on gold foil pickups or lace pickups and their design.
These are really great and informative videos. Thanks!
Today its all about underwound, weak out put pick ups.
Vintage PUPs around 4K from Rick's are worth a fortune.
The underwound pickups produce demonstrably better
mid range magic, Once the bass reponse from the power
of a PUP is reduced the "Jangle" and "Chime" are automatic.
Filtertrons sound so much better.
How do the humbicker sized filtertrons compare with the gretch ones, and humbuckers?
I have a Les Paul melody maker coming with a single humbucker in the bridge.. personally I love the Malcolm young tone , saw that there's a humbucker size filtertron called the psyclone. Wanted your opinion on this if that would get me in the realm of that Raw tone I'm chasing after, I know they're different guitars completely, but all things being equal a slab of wood n a neck with strings attached, with A pickup and a volume control, do the psyclone pickups live up to the hype? Thanks!!
Something like a Filtertron I came across by chance that might interest pickup people: 70s Maxon “staple”:pickups. Not quite a visual copy of a Filtertron, but that size, and judging by the sound at least parallel wired, if not a full Filtertron copy inside. I am not going to strip mine to see what is inside them, but, as they are far and away the best pickups I have ever had, I am curious about them. I did read of somebody trying to strip one and finding it thoroughly wax potted, be that factory original or an owner mod. Anyone know much about them?
Whoa! You mean wretch guitars don't really use filertrons? I have a 5422 and it says on the web site that they are filertrons. Are they ripping everyone off?
bummed that this video didn't cover what the title said... great information but I was in search of the information about what makes the humbucker and the filter'trons different... obviously not this video.. perhaps a title change would keep people on the right path. cheers.
Hey Dylan ty for all that information. I would like to ask if is posible to try a split coil in a filtertron, just in theory. I'm not sure if the result gonna be good, but just in theory is that posible? Ley say that it came from the factory whit the 4 cables, or because of how it was builded is not posible even in theory??
Plus one for the gold foil video here and please cover the Guyatones in that video as well.
Also another video idea would be to explain the term “microphonic” and the voodoo that seems to be associated with wax potting to eliminate that noise.
Obviously some of that noise is desirable as you referred to your guitarist chasing that super loud clean tone around on stage. I have my ideas of why wax potting solves the microphonic issues, but an explanation from the ground up about the issue and then the solution would be phenomenal!
Thanks for all you do to educate us simpleton guitar players...LOL
Have you ever talked about gold foil pickups?
I see you don't appear to be making these anymore. Do you have another source you would recommend to get some more period correct filtertrons?
Gold foil pickup video...yes, please!
Can you recommend which mini-humbucker would be best for the AC/DC 'Mal' Sound? Some signature models are using the Powertron and others the Gretsch Vintage type Filtertrons. I was considering a TV Jones classic. Can you advise? Thanks.
Cool video but sound of pickups would have been cool to hear with info.