How the "Old Ladies N' Hijinks" Subgenre Became a Thing
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 ต.ค. 2024
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In this video I take a look at an emerging subgenre: BOOK CLUB CINEMA...Otherwise known as the "old ladies n' hijinks' ensemble comedy. Where did this subgenre come from? Why are we seeing so many of them now? What does it offer (or not offer) women as they age? I tackle all of the above and more, so check it out!
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I really do think the Golden Girls is the model for this type of movie. A group of (typically 4) older women, thrust together by circumstance, bonding over sex and life experiences, and becoming closer because of it
I totally agree and don't understand why she's calling it book club when she should just call it Golden Girls ... or something similar to this .
Hell, GG did it comong ans gojng. You can make the argument Sex in the City was GGs for women in their 20s.
And now those same women are the ages of the GG actresses and have transitioned to old lady hijinks territory
This might be of interest to you: Anna Bogutskaya referenced Be Kind Rewind's Bette Davis video on her book Unlikaeble Female Characters. Interesting to see that video essays are finally becoming accepted in this way.
Be Kind Rewind makes some good videos.
Sounds like a really interesting book, will have to check it out!
BKR is a marvelous video series which is very carefully thought out and delivered.
I agree. I teach undergrad classes (3000-level and upwards) and many students refer to stuff like video essays in their papers. The citation systems have caught up with the times. So, it is possible to cite these types of, for the lack of a better word, 'popular' material in college-level papers too. In other words, academia has started to become more accepting of the usage of non-traditional material in academic work.
Awesome! Thanks for sharing! BKR takes the time and work to research, put together and edit these wonderful video essays and it's glad to see their impact.
Watching ‘grace & Frankie’ genuinely brought me so much peace and hope as a 25 year old woman. I feel this pressure to live my life perfectly or not to “miss out” because life is just over at 32, and you’re dead at 40. Logically I know this is not true but I really have internalised this fear that excitement, individuality, opportunity and vivaciousness is a has an expiry date as a woman and that society believes once that’s gone a woman has no value and is just barely accepted as a dumpy homely mother. Seeing older woman killing it makes me feel safe, exited and connected to the sisterhood of support
Grace and Frankie forever 😊
I feel the same dread even though I’m young but too busy and burnt out to do anything “fun”.
Just a note on Sally Field playing Tom Hanks' mother in 'Forrest Gump' despite being only 10 years older than him; she does play her role as the young Forrest's mother from the start of the film, only appearing in aged make-up for her scenes with him as an adult (instead of casting an older actress) so, while it does not invalidate the point you are making, it is not the best example of it.
So I was going to make a comment about how the genre kinda started with Grace and Frankie, and then right at the end of the video BKR just threw out a single sentence to exactly that effect. So I would like to flesh out that argument here, even though it's TV and not film. Grace and Frankie was a huge factor in the renewed popularity of Jane Fonda and Lily Tomlin as major stars, and it did something really interesting and complicated with the "husbands betraying main characters in the first act" plot set-up, and crucially Grace and Frankie are not already friends at the start of the show. And that premise really gives Fonda and Tomlin something a bit meatier to work with (betrayal, forgiveness, and a growth arc of coming together), and would make studios want to copy and try to cash in on, but not be able to imitate exactly. And the theme of sexuality is still there. It has a lot of the same hallmarks, just a different medium. But I think the added complexity and the serialized, peak-TV, sitcom format helps it sidestep some of the shortcomings of the genre that BKR highlights towards the end of this video. Thank you for coming to my TED talk.
I love this Ted Talk
I'm hitting midlife and this is becoming my favorite genre. It's just nice to see women over my age having adventures as oppose to films where the moms of teenagers are 29 😂😂
Same! I'm 42 & these are a delight for me as Golden Girls was as a little girl. Golden Girls & Oprah's 40th birthday episode have made me see aging as a fun adventure. I'm so excited to finally have gray hair!
@@nilawarriorprincess Same... Frankie from G&F makes me want to grow out my grey hair more. I can kinda get how some ppl might take issue with this, but also... Why??? All they're doing is living their best life... Why is it suddenly "infantilizing" for older women to be happy with their lives and celebrate friendships? Not every movie featuring older actors need to be dark and sad. For gosh sake, we are living in a sad world right now. I would rather be comforted by movie grandmas than sit through a boring movie about someone's sad life. There are good challenging parts that don't have to be serious AND some challenging parts that are serious, but also have their light-hearted moments
Try French movies.
Isabelle Huppert is older than you, right?
I think these films about female friendships go even further back -- like to the "three girls" pictures of the 1920s and '30s. It just took several decades for a generation of Hollywood-created stars to mature into a genre that could resemble "Book Club" via their age. And TV certainly helped -- women-led ensemble comedies (starting, in my mind, with THE MARY TYLER MOORE SHOW) have accelerated in every decade since the 1970s, so that by the late 2010s, groups of funny women -- now four or five -- became a template. We see it in non-scripted programming as well.
Such a good point - MTM is still one of the best shows featuring women and authentic friendships that aren’t centered on male attention
True..and it seems like in the 80s we jad alot pf those shows or at least we had a few of good quality like Designing Women and of course GG.
Kind of fitting that Jean Smart gets a shout out in this video when she co starred in Designing Women
I love the movie Whales of August because it was worthy of the actresse's talents, and didn''t diminsh their abilities. Or shove them into some bizarre hagsploitation flick. It gave Lillian Gish, Bette Davis and Ann Sothern, robust, stimulating material. And it is litterally the only movie i can think of where a female actress over 90 (Gish was 93) is given a proper acting role, and not just a gimmicky grandmother role.
Such a fantastic film, and I wish it was talked about here
@@HamishDownie, thanks, Hamish. You've just sold it to me.
I just watched that the other day.
Too bad she followed it up with a movie supposedly so bad the director later blamed himself for her death.
Yes! I love Whales of August so much. Bonus that there’s a fleeting glimpse of Mary Steenburgen at the beginning of it. 💫
Calendar Girls is an excellent movie. But I will say I think we see more older actresses in British film than we do in American films. I think it’s slightly less of an issue here than in American. Only slightly. Judi Dench will continue to work in anything and everything she wants in Britain. I think we’re more impressed by pedigree of actor here so if someone has a Damehood then there will continue to be options. Maggie Smith is another good example of that.
Totally! I definitely noticed this while doing the research.
There was a documentary called Nothing Like a Dame, which is Judi Dench, Maggie Smith, Joan Plowright and Eileen Atkins talking about their lives. I think it was Joan Plowright who said the roles she still got were usually whatever Judi Dench turned down. 😂
Agree a 100. And the BBC and British cinema also had older women and more diversity. In American media it always smacks of tokenism. Thankfully Shonda Rimes turned shtz around with Bridgerton, and now it’s less tokenism.
@@marlbboro8091I somehow keep forgetting that that show is a ShondaLand production, dunno why 🤔🤷
Can anyone recommend a Margie Smith movie where she isn't playing a prim and proper type? I love her work, but it seems she is always typecast and I would like to see her do something else. It's like how Mads Mikleson is always the villain in movies.
Love this, may I suggest Golden Comedies as a more all-encompassing name.
As mentioned, the comedy of The Golden Girls works as a blueprint for the most common jokes and archetypes in these movies. While in the abstract, it zeros in on the most consistent theme at the heart of these films, celebrating the third act years for the gift that they can be.
It can also remove itself from the simplicity of it’s most successful entities, and be pushed further while still holding onto that positive message.
No one expected that show to become a runaway success like it did. There hadn’t been a hit sitcom where the entire cast was over 50, so that in itself was a risk.
@@Attmay it’s oldhat now, but was revolutionary at the time
Yea Book Club doesn’t feel like the genre’s origins
TV definitely seems to be where the prestige roles are going at the moment. People of all ages were slotted into Succession or House of the Dragon or Schitt's Creek and we didn't blink twice. They were simply their characters
Ah yes, one of my favorite sub-genres: the one liners, easy to identify tropes, countless quizzes trying to figure which cast member you are, press runs teeming with charisma… it makes me think of a quote from the TV show Cybill.
*”My god, it’s like Fellini directed an episode of The Golden Girls.”*
I’m obsessed!
I think Golden Girls on the Silver Screen is what I'd call this genre
😂😂 that quote!! Hahahaha!
If you haven't read them already, I recommend Terry Pratchett's Witches series. Written in the late 80s and early 90s the books were a reaction to this "older women can't lead a story" trope. Pratchett cast two older women in the main roles with the younger woman being, still a great character, but also a bit of a wet hen. As the series progresses each character goes on an incredible journey with age being something to look forward to, not run away from - this is especially true in Lords & Ladies. He continued the series with the Tiffany Aching books, looking at a new generation of witches as they grow up and once again focusing on the idea that age is something to look forward to. Age makes you strong, smarter, wiser, better, and you can still retain a youthful spirit - should you want to - even into your senior years!
Granny Weatherwax, Nanny Ogg, Magrat Garlick, Tiffany Aching, and Anges Nitt will forever be roll models for me and I hope my future children should they ever exist. Highly recommend!
I'm glad that the industry is starting to explore this genre more. There is a market for older women and movies like Book Club are certainly proof of that!
Me too, and even as a lady in her 30s, I love these movies. The criticisms she levels at them are accurate but they’re fun popcorn flicks with unbelievably good acting
@@sonorasgirl couldn't agree more, and I'm in my 20s.
you didn't finish watching the video, right?
@@CosmicDancer589 I did comment before I finished the video (as you can tell by the time I posted my comment) but I kept watching after that and yes, I also saw the (valid) criticism and stand by my comment.
I mentioned Book Club because it did pretty well at the box office & was rather well-received by audiences. Me enjoying these movies as light-hearted comedy doesn't negate the fact that older actresses deserve to have more challenging roles instead of being stuck in one genre.
I know Fonda did Our Souls At Night, which was a beautiful film imo, but there is clearly a need for more diverse stories for older women. There has been a recent wave of Book Club Cinema movies, which leads me to hope that they might experiment more in the future, seeing how there is clearly public demand for older actresses on film.
Despite there being a lot of issues still, I think Mary made a good point about what these movies could potentially help achieve for women in the industry.
Stan ayu
I can't help but feel part of this is an extension of the success of films like "The Sunshine Boys," "Going in Style," and later, "Grumpy Old Men." Hollywood eventually finally realized older women were more hungry for representation than older men and were potentially more easily exploitable at the box office.
Grumpy Old Men felt revolutionary at the time. Old men? Having lives and sexual desires?!
Going out on a limb here, but I suspect it's because older men don't see themselves as older men. I mean, the mid-life crisis trope had always been there, but as guys age they tend to be portrayed as being just as (if not more) desirable. Men are still valued for their experience, considered attractive (or distinguished), and considered "mature," instead of "washed up," or "past her prime."
However I see that changing lately. Men are now being held to the impossible standards that women have been. There used to be lots of everyman characters like Bruce Willis. Now they're all Thor, and Captain America, and let's be honest, no one looks like that. Maybe the demand for that genre will be increasing here soon. Who knows.
I'd add The Bucket List and Last Vegas
The Sunshine Boys wasn't about old men and hijinks. It was about old men facing their obsolescence and realizing that all they have is each other.
Anybody ever watched These Old Broads starring Shirley MacLaine, Joan Collins, Debbie Reynolds, and Elizabeth Taylor? That’s an awesome one. Written by Carrie Fisher
Of COURSE WE WATCHED THESE OLD BROADS! It was Carrie’s valentine to her mom & Liz ( from the bed!) x
In India, one of the best Elderly Ladies having a fab time is ‘Sonata’ by Aparna Sen. However, it’s more a chamber piece than a ‘hijinks’ movie.
Best Exotic Hyderabad Hotel
Lipstick under my burkha partially?
@@nigelhenriques1298 Maybe
Another interesting hallmark that I think should be discussed is the genre’s visual style. Very rooted in traditional studio comedy and sitcoms rules about lighting and blocking (light bright, light soft, light pretty, and no setups that dictate what the actors can and can’t do) but even more bright and diffused so as to make the older women’s skin and faces and flattering and flawless as possible (and some going as far as digital skin smoothing in post). On top of just leading to kind of bland imagery, I think it also says something about how that fear of any sign of imperfection is still there in the background. Also, modern digital cameras are so sharp and hold so much information that this ultra bright style of lighting ends up looking really flat and garish compared to the older films that inspired the look. It also ends up unintentionally revealing things like cheap VFX or stock locations.
They look like 90-minute pharmaceutical commercials.
"Ask your doctor if 80 for Brady is right for you".
Thank you! You described exactly why all these films look the same to me!
Growing up in the 60’s & 70’s there was always a mystique about how women communicated and solve problems. When the aunts or the ladies group wanted to solve a problem, we all noticed. The movie, film, cinema formats at times capture a piece of that dynamic that was always so mysterious, especially to us young males. Again, thank you for creating an experience. We don’t get anywhere else. Another great review and point of view.
There was a movie by alan alda called the four seasons that i feel might be an example of what you're talking about, was it one of those movies that helped reveal the magic of that communication? one of many examples but the only one i can come up with now
My favorite subgenre. I always called it the “Older White Lady” films because of the casts and the audience. When you’re the only MAN under the age of 55 in the audience at every single one of these, you have to develop a sense of humor about it.
I’m shocked Annette Benning has never done one of these. Seems like she’d be perfect for it.
@@tatehildyard5332 She is not old enough yet, give it some time...
@@tjh12473She's 65. Angela Bassett did one of these when she was like 62.
@@tatehildyard5332 Jerry and Marge Go Large was kinda this
Given how easy it is to find actresses for this, I don't get why it isn't more of a thing.
10:00 That's a great point about being able to cast multiple women of the same age in the same project. I remember when Ian McKellen and Patrick Stewart were doing Waiting for Godot and No Man's Land together and asked why they didn't work together more often - to which the response was "there aren't many projects with two older men in prominent roles". And no doubt it's been worse for women! So glad this is changing 🥰
I agree with you! Sometimes to me these can feel infantalizing, i enjoy them but some of the jokes/skits/storylines can feel pandering, like the audience can't handle more, nor can the actors. Grace and Frankie had a lot of positive impacts but also missed so so much in that, plus the issues around alcoholism as a "quirk" bothered me
To answer your question, I love Steel Magnolias and go back to that movie annually, would love to see more book club movies of that calibre. I haven't seen these old broads or 45 years but now i must!
I agree and also feel like the novelty of Jane and Lily as a team has kind of worn itself out a little... it no longer feels like something special because they can only be "reteamed" so much. Its one reason why the 9 to 5 sequel plans falling through never really bothered me all that much because they do so much together anyway that there's not really a huge cry for a follow-up of the original thing that first brought them together. I kind of suspect that Dolly waiting to guest on Grace and Frankie until the final season was her instinctively knowing that you don't want to wear something that special out and should do it sparingly as possible so that when it happens it can be really appreciated...
*Steel Magnolias* was written by a Gay man as a tribute to his sister who died similarly to Shelby. What’s coincidental about that is how it came out the same time as *The Little Mermaid,* also written by a Gay man, which deviated from the source material as it spared Ariel and gave her a husband.
I recommend Grandma because that movie is light-hearted, but Lily Tomlin's character is a bit more challenging because she is playing a character that is dealing with grief and has a lot of internal anger problems. Her character is always there for ppl she loves. It's also a wonderful film that features an older LGBTQ leading part (Lily's character as Elle/Grandma) and the importance of your bodily autonomy (abortions in this case), and it actually deals with complicated family relationships. You still get that quirky sense of humor from Lily, but it's balanced out more
@@AttmayBecause if you wanna get someone who understands the mind of women, you get an incredibly gay man
It would be interesting to see if the scripts for this genre improve if there are more women writers of the same vintage as the stars in the writers' room.
I also really want to see Richard Osman's detective books, set in a retirement community, adapted for TV or film. (They wouldn't really fall in this genre but would be excellent roles for older actors)
I wonder if Grace and Frankie counts. Written by Martha Kaufman (her first big project since Friends) and it’s a lot of the same humor and cast as this genre. Although it spends a considerable amount of time with the ex-husbands and their kids.
@@tatehildyard5332I'd say Grace and Frankie is the gold standard
Steel Magnolias is underlooked as being this genre, and the criminally underwatched/underrated "Cookie's Fortune" (1993), directed by Robert Altman!
I did and do want to see films made with older women in them, and I really appreciate your exploration of the subgenre. I do agree with Jane Fonda in that an actor at any age should be challenged, and these roles aren't exactly challenging. But, her presence as well as the presence of other legends in this subgenre is changing the industry, it just needs to advance to the next step.
Also, I do hope that films can be made featuring non-tokenized women of color in ensemble dramas/dark comedies too.
This. Every bit of it. There's no reason women with this kind of acting experience should be side characters in other people's stories. There's so much more to them than older women friendship flicks too. The movies aren't bad, but after you clone them five or six times they aren't exactly good either.
This might be slightly off topic, but fascinating and complex older female characters always brings we to GRRM's A Song of Ice and Fire series. There are so many examples of an older woman being the smartest and most interesting person in a scene, who is in touch with the complexities and consequences of their world in ways everyone else around her are just oblivious to unless she enlightens them. We got to see Olenna Tyrell on screen from these examples and warching Diana Rigg chew up that role was an absolute pleasure. She became a real fan favorite and everyone got to experience what a mature female actor can do with a substantial role.
If books and TV can please huge audiences of people with this kind of portrayal, why can't movies? I feel like it is indeed a horrid Hollywood problem. They are so out of touch with what actual cinema lovers crave.
It's interesting watching Sex and The City slowly turn into this genre.
They all move to Florida and become the Golden Girls. 🤣🤣
Love it
Wasn't it ALWAYS a Golden Girls remake? I didn't watch it while it was on air, but I thought it was the same show in a different city. Weren't they always over 40?
@@nilawarriorprincessthe only one over 40 in season 1 was samantha at 45. Carrie was 32 on season 1. Why do I know this?
@EMILIO-rr4jd Interesting.😅 I surprise myself by knowing random trivia at times too. Idk why I've always considered GG & SITC the same show in different states.
If you were to put Judi Dench, Maggie Smith, Lily Tomlin, Cher and Joan Plowright together in a film…… it becomes the quintessential book club movie.
I would love to watch that movie if they make that happen today (again)
Glad to see someone else mention (or, I guess, not mention lol) Tea with Mussolini, because it's definitely my favorite ensemble out of this subgenre. It's not as “basic” or as comedic as most of the recent entries mentioned in this video, but considering the very valid critiques of the quality of the “Book Club movie” material, that may be a good thing?
@@jayswift9945 Oh my God! I forgot to mention the actual movie!!!! 😂😂😂
I just posted the same thing. Glad I'm not alone! The story is that Maggie Smith and Judi Dench were both in Italy visiting Franco Zefferelli. Both were complaining about no good roles, and he said, 'Relax, I'm working on something right now that will put us all back in the spotlight.' When Cher got the script she called her agent in the middle of the night and said "I'm in." I think also she hadn't even finished it yet. I watch it every once in awhile just to remember what good movies are like.
@@tricivenola8164 Truly one of my favourite movies….. thanks for that background!
I didn't think I gave a damn about this particular topic until I watched this. Your essays are always great, but this one might be my favorite. Thanks for being so thoughtful and thorough.
thank you for articulating my frustrations with this genre for me! it’s a fun style of movies, but it’s disappointing that it’s the only major option. it’s just frustrating generally how films about older people (and esp women) are often only willing to be comedies if the joke centers around their age (“how funny that older people enjoy sex!”, as if that’s not totally normal), or only willing to be sad if the tragedy centers around them coming to terms with their death. both we as audiences and these actresses deserve material that is funny, sad, moving, scary, etc without that emotion being at their expense!
Poetry (2010) is a great movie about a grandmother raising her grandson while also trying to discover new passions. No, it's not about a group of women and yes, it can be a real downer at times, but it is a great character study made my a great director.
YESSSSSS. As a long time fan of BKR i love that youre now evolving to the point where you can curate youre own genres!
Id nominate a genre ive seen come into being in the last 10 or so years which might be called the 'MomVenge' genre-action movies starring well established actresses over 30 playing characters who are both soulful as well as ass kicking near superheroines-Long Kiss Goodnight might be the start but id include Salt, Peppermint, Everly, The Mother, Lou, The Protege, Sentinelle, The Rythym Section, Proud Mary, Interceptor, Kate, Ava,
All those movies suck, BKR is too high brown in their cinephilia to explore such bad bad movies. Long kiss Goodbye is perhaps the best one and only one worth of he watch.
A movie that I think is often forgotten is "Let Them All Talk." It stars Candice Bergen, Dianne Wiest, and (exception to the rule) Meryl Streep. It was directed by my fave Steven Soderbergh and it came out pretty recently. It deals with fame, creativity, and the writing process. It whiffs of wealthy yt women fussing over nothing, but it's a breeze of a movie to get through. And it's more a dramedy that's more dignified. Because one of the things I don't like about this genre is the "kooky ol' ladies doin' stuff" is in and of itself worth watching. I know these actors are far more capable than the material they're given, and I think "Let Them All Talk" does this well.
Ahhh!!! She’s back and this looks to be EXCELLENT
Where to begin? I'm a 71 year old Gay man in FL. (I know. Pray for me!) Anyway, I've been binge watching your "Be Kind Rewind" TH-cam videos over Labor Day weekend & I am smitten. Your organizational & analytical skills are astonishing! As a film school graduate from U.T. waay back in 1973, your channel is the sort of thing I dreamed about back then. Of course, it didn't exist & now I fear the parade has passed me by. Regardless, I wish you the best & look forward to devouring your future content
I dunno. Jean Smart has been getting some good roles. I loved her in Hacks. Legion, and Watchmen were amazing even if she was a side character. She deserves more, but she's still getting good work, and she's honestly at the top of her game at this age. She's really put all that experience to good use. I want to be her in 20 years!
I just love Jean in Hacks, top tier acting and writing! Id have a dreama bout kissing her too if I was Ava
She and Delta Burke made Designing Women and when they left it basically doomed the show. I mean granted it was always going to be seen as a younger GOlden Girls knockoff to start but Jean just leant Charlene this wonderful charm and sincerity that it was a great gateway drug to follow in just about everything else and it was a backdrop to appreciating her full versatility
But for some reason, that kind of increasingly good rep on TV isn't making it to the movies so much.
@@Trixtah I really thought Babylon was going to be her ticket to an Oscar nom - we all know how THAT worked out lol
She was decent in Babylon and Mare of Eastwood too. She's been acting a lot.
"The Good Liar" starred Helen Mirren and Ian McKellen and it was a legit good movie without pandering to any one demographic.
Omg that movie was a nice surprise. I enjoyed it - what a ride it was 😂😂😂
As a woman in her sixties, my main feeling about any of these movies I've seen (or, to be honest, I've seen the first twenty minutes or so of before I give up) is that they are so stupid. My friends and I are not stupid. These actresses are not stupid. Why can't they play smart, sophisticated people in a comedy? Yes, older women do tend to joke about sex, but in the way that people who have been having sex for fifty years do, not in the middle school way I see in these comedies. Anyway, know what I'd really like to see? A "Tea with the Dames" type movie, with American actresses of the same calibre.
AMEN!!!!!
This genre is so demeaning and insulting, imho - really not a fan at all.
Does Soderbergh’s “Let Them All Talk”, staring Meryl Streep, Diane Wiest and Candace Bergen count in this? Love your videos, always look forward to new content. Keep up the amazing work. ❤️👍🏻
BKR is back. This is not a drill. Gird your loins. STAY F**KING CALM!
P.S. The Press Tours are the best.
😆
I'm currently reading "The Thursday Murder Club", which is a mystery novel about 4 residents of a British senior living village solving a murder. It's apparently getting made into a movie by Spielberg's production company.
I wonder if it will be an extension of Book Club Cinema. Half of the main cast is male, but it seems to share a lot of the tropes of Book Club Cinema, mixing them in with elements of "cozy" murder mysteries. It's a fun, light read, that is much more about the characters and their lives as seniors. The murder mystery is almost secondary, as it's very much an excuse for the characters to hang out and do something.
I personally feel like “Poms” is the golden example from the genre. Ticks all the boxes, but in a fun way that doesn’t feel insulting to the audience.
Something about the way you introduced this made me think of the 1939 film The Women. I feel like we've been doing ensemble female films forever, and everytime everyone thinks it's groundbreaking because it never seems to stick and be taken seriously as a genre.
The Women with Norma Shearer, Joan Crawford, et al. is the Creme de la Creme of this genre. Witty, touching, tender, catty. A+
Dinner at Eight is perhaps the first book club genre films with all these legends like Billie Burke, May Robson and Marie Dressler.
26:16 Aaaah! So glad you mentioned Grace and Frankie! I was thinking about whether it would count, as an unfortunate amount of time is spent on the exes and kids, and even a lot of both Grace's and Frankie's story lines is about finding, keeping or leaving men, the true story there is about their friendship. Recently rewatched the two first seasons, oh how I love it when the story focuses on just the two of them and their relationship!
I find it kind of ironic that Angela Lansbury, the best known example of Hollywood de-aging, is...was...is known for her works as an older woman, like Mrs. Potts, Mrs. Lovett, and J.B. Fletcher.
The transition to the add for nebula was so slick i almost slipped on it. Spectacular content, as always!
As someone who actually works in a cinema I can say that the popularity of this genre comes down to simple representation.
No matter your demographic, you will come out to see people who look like you.
It's that simple
"These Old Broads" is an amazing movie. I wish it was a theatrical release
YES! I love Elizabeth Taylor. I think she was 'allowed' to age & work on Hollywood as long as she wanted to.
I'm 65. I personally cannot imagine ever wanting to watch one of these movies. I'm all about the writing. They're formulaic.
That being said, I don't have any problem with anyone else enjoying watching these.
You’re not like other girls, right?
@@tananario wut?
Great video as always. I have a soft spot for 70s Disaster movies and these were a genre that tended to cast older Hollywood legends in supporting roles. This starts with Airport (1970) which casts Helen Hayes as a sweet seeming older lady conning her way to getting free flights. Hayes won a best supporting actress Oscar 39 years after winning her first for Best Actress in 1931. This is despite Hayes role being relatively small.
This set a template for older stars to be cast in these films. Shelly Winters in the Poseidon Adventure, Gloria Swanson and Myrna Loy in Airport 75, Fred Astaire and Jennifer Jones in The Towering Inferno, Olivia de Havilland and James Stewart in Airport 77 etc.
Sometimes these roles actually a bit meatier. Shelly Winters pretty much steals the show in The Poseidon Adventure. Fred Astaire is the best thing apart from the effects in the Towering Inferno.
This made commercial sense too. With the death of the old studio system and the coming of new Hollywood these movies appealed to be made by veterans of the old system have stars of the 50s and 60s as leads and were marketed to an older audience through their casting of a panoply of stars.
Besides “Event Cinema”, a large demographic of moviegoers is made up of senior citizens who go every week and these easy-watch comedies reflect that.
But you’re right. There is something disheartening about the fact that 3 or 4 Oscar winners all have the time and can get together to phone in a matinee comedy.
Movies for the generation that can’t figure out the Smart Tv should be made. But Jane Fonda deserves another goddamn Oscar and better wigs.
I was hoping you'd mention Mary Steenburgen on Keep It! Loved that interview. When will you guest there, because you and Louis would have the best conversation about women in film.
OMG THANK YOU for giving "Stepping Out" a shout out💖
My favourite example of a gender reversal of the age gap is Sextette where Mae West at 85 was 53 years older than her on screen husband Timothy Dalton.
Brilliant video and such an interesting analysis, thank you!
Hasn't Dalton considered that film to be one of the biggest regtets of his Career?
I avoid these types of movies like the plague, yet I watch all your essays because you always have an interesting insight no matter the topic.
When I last visited my parents in May, we watched 80 for Brady (Mom's choice) with Lily Tomlin, Jane Fonda, Rita Moreno, and Sally Field. After the movie was over, and after we mentioned how amazing Jane Fonda continues to look, my mom and I talked about how nice it was to see older women in movies like this. That is, it's nice to see older women in movies which center on them, their desires, and their, well, hi-jinks. My mom talked about how she grew up with these actresses. So did I, but in a different way. Obviously, The Golden Girls entered the conversation.
You raise so many excellent points. It’s ok if these wonderful actresses want to do the occasional fun fluff - but we expect and want so much more!
I love this so much!!! I sent this to my mom who loves this sub genre to see what she thinks lol - I’ll report back! I didn’t realize there were so many movies in this canon and now I want to check out more of them.
Also OMG you made me want to zap into 2070 for a hot second just to see that candy colored Coppola-Dunst collab - like I’m ready for that already
The very first thing I thought of: Do Not Fold, Spindle or Mutilate (1971), this wacky TV movie with Helen Hayes, Myrna Loy, Sylvia Sidney and Mildred Natwick! At least I'm fairly sure it fits into this genre despite it's basis being more like a Miss Marple plot. Recommended!
I loveee this video and I'm obsessed with niche subgenres like this. Nice video!
Great video, I always wondered what to call this genre. I would also put Sex & The City's 2 films and the And Just Like That series in this category too.
Just watched the rankings on nebula and just wanted to note that I would genuinely love for you to talk more about the first wives club!
If you’re not interested in it, all good! But as a millennial, this was genuinely one of my favourite movies growing up and it had such an influence on me!
I loved this video so much. However I would add the Jane Austen Book Club (that would be earlier than the aforementioned book club) and How to make an American quilt, that is one of my favourites.
OMG! I LOVE AMERICAN QUILT. I LIVED to see an unhinged Anne Bancroft that also got to smoke weed in the beginning of the movie. Her character is my fav, but all of them were amazing
Thanks for giving me a new movie playlist
I never realized how many of these were out there and now I will have to go and watch them
I’m so glad you mentioned ‘finding your feet’. It’s one of my favourite films
the community theatre in my area almost exclusively does these kinds of plays. whenever i see a movie like this come out i just wait for it to be adapted by them haha. i'm glad there's an audience and opportunity for it, but i do wish the genre was more diverse both in terms of subject matter and the cast. also, it's hard for me to find roles i'm age appropriate for, lol!
Mamma Mia definitely counts. I think Single Mom Club may be considered. Also what about The Women? I like this genre because I find it refreshing to see these genres more because I like the actresses and the more projects they get the better recognition they get for the new generation. However, I understand where Jane is coming from about still wanting to have challenging and complex roles. The only reason I didn't want watch 80 for Brady is because I hate Tom Brady. I don't even like football, I just can't stand him.
Thank you for your sharing Nebula with your audience! I haven't heard of that site until this video, and sure I'll be looking into this very soon!
My 30-something daughter calls this genre "40/50/60 and fabulous". "Bridesmaids" is an infant version of this as is the black equivalent "Girls Trip". I watched a YT video that claimed that female ensemble comedies were really profitable but aren't sufficiently exploited by Hollywood, preferring remakes, male-led goofball movies, and superhero films that constantly flop.
Gunpowder Milkshakes is the only action type movie I've seen with an all female cast. Plus it stars minority women over 55 including Angela Bassett.
Joy Ride seems to be this for Asian women and I feel like Crazy Rich Asians also neatly fits in this box as like a proto bookclub cinema thing
More fabulous old ladies = more fun! Bring it on! Also, Diane Keaton is a legend.
It's like you know exactly when I'm about to start having "content withdrawals" and come in to save me just in time before I have to check into rehab LOL
I watched so many of these types of movies growing up. I watched Steele Magnolias and First Wives Club so much my dad hid the tapes.
Im gay now. Thanks Sally Field.
OMG! A Stepping Out shout out! I only saw that shown once in TCM, it was so good!
BKR talking about multiple beloved icons at once? Lezzgo.
Leaving that La Roche Posay sunscreen ad in...chef's kiss.
just watched book club for the first time today and I love it, so much media scares people from aging and acts like it’s a curse but movies like Book Club really make you if anything look forward to that free time and friendship you can have if you look positively at retirement and aging
Loved the ranking video on Nebula. More please. You are so freaking funny.
This was so needed today…..
Could’ve sworn you said “Butt Plug” cinema around the 15 minute mark 😂
I love LOVE how everything on your channel seems to come back to classic cinema lol yaaaasssss
They are all attempting to emulate the charm and success of television's Golden Girls to varying degrees of success. They are the female equivalent of the male 'buddy-movie'.
Very much feels like the female equivalent of those movies with old actors such as Robert De Niro and Morgan Freeman committing hijinks in vegas or of a similar vein
Gurl! I'm surprised you didn't mention or talked about my favorite " Harold and Maude"!
Also, Book Club Cinema makes Queer People very happy. We Stan Screen Icons colliding on screen.
As a gay male who's 41, but feels and sometimes feels he looks 81, I worry about ageing, especially as I've had many mental and physical health problems. To me, I know women most certainly experience ageing in many difficult ways, and they certainly suffer misogyny and ageism, I still think there is a disparity with how that ageing is treated in wider society. I think older women are given more permission to express themselves, be the fun grandma, wear bright colours, wear makeup, be considered glamorous, date younger men, go to nightclubs, and almost be considered an icon for doing so. If older men do anything out of the ordinary, or try to be fun, they are seen as creepy, wrinkly weirdos, and should just stick to feeding ducks in the park.
Great video. Thanks for always being respectful around Crawford.
Tea with Mussolini, a 1999 masterpiece that pre-dates much of this new stuff, with Maggie Smith, Judi Dench, Joan Plowright, Lily Tomlin all cast with Cher who was 54. And in TV: huge applause for Ryan Murphy and his All-Out Diva Parade in American Horror Story and Ratched: Sara Paulson, Jessica Lange, Kathy Bates, Judy Davis, Cynthia Nixon, Sharon Stone, Angela Basset, Frances Conroy, and that's just off the top of my head.
I don't know if you've seen Fried Green Tomatoes but it is an absolutely excellent addition to this genre.
Oh my goodness I LOVE this!! I'm only a minute thirty into the video already and I'm psyched you showed clips of the Marigold Hotels and Finding Your Feet. This is *exactly* my favourite genre! Where is the Book Club Cinema squad, we need to share movie suggestions and have discussions online! (Hoping we get to this part later in the video where that's all set up and linked in the description xD)
Omg I forgot about Calendar Girls!! I love that movie!!
The Woody Allen joke was aces.
Before I see this video. I've been watching your older videos all morning. Happy to see a new one Today. Now time to watch.
These films weren't my cup of tea until you elevated them to be scrutinized on your BKR channel. Thank you! Also a lot of those stars of the 40s 50s etc. were guest stars on TV shows in the 70s like Love Boat or Love American Style
I was literally praying for a new video last night…you never disappoint
I love seeing these seasoned actresses working because they want to. What I do not like are the silly plots and the hazy camera work to help them not look so old. They are old embrace every wrinkle ladies. Some of them are so blurred they look like a walking smudge.
I wish they had something more interesting to deal with serious issues. These are Oscar winners they deserve much better. Think out of the box Hollywood get your head out of the comic books
I half agree with you about showing them age naturally, but there's nothing wrong with them being in movies like this with "silly plots" because it's all in good fun and fluff. I enjoy seeing older women have fun and make jokes. I somewhat understand why some might take issue since it's now becoming more of a trope, but at the same time, I don't see us questioning men if they were in movies like this too (that is if there were more movies about positive older male friendships, haha). Plus, it's not like these ladies haven't done recent movies with more serious parts. For example, I LOVED Rita's beautiful performance as Valentina from the new WSS.
YES YES YES! I was waiting, like.. "Is she going to mention 45 Years?" And you did! I've literally done the same thing. If anyone asks for a movie recommendation, I tell them to watch that.
I just wanted both of your most recent videos on Nebula. I really appreciate your breakdown of the Book Club genre of movies. I knew a few of them. Some of them that you put in the last tier were ones that I already was avoiding because I figured they wouldn't be as good as the trailer. I definitely found some that I did not know about that I will be checking out.
I wondered if you maybe you had heard about Quartet. It is a movie that came out in 2012. I will be honest that I didn't see it until the lockdown. When I saw it, I really enjoyed it. It stars Maggie Smith, Billy Connelly, Pauline Collins, Tom Courtenay amongst others. It is about a home for retired musicians who are getting ready to put on an annual concert. Yes, there is a concert happening and the audience gets to watch all everyone practicing and preparing. I found that part entertaining but it may be a little slow at first. Mostly the audience is watching folks living their lives in this nursing home. At some point or another, all of the musicians have worked together in their past. Maggie Smith's character was a bit of a diva. I think they do a great job of handling the tragedies that can happen in older adults lives. I also liked the way they handled a character's battle with dementia/Alzheimer's. It looks like it's available to stream on Max. I would love to hear your thoughts on it.
One of my favorite videos I’ve watched recently
“I’m Older and I’ve got more Insurance.” 🤣
Ugh, I wish it wasn't 50 Shades that was the book serving as the catalyst for this. Like... it's some of the worst erotica ever. Women everywhere and especially these legendary ladies deserve so much better.