Two other important reasons for the success of MK9 which had nothing to do with the holy grail that is pro input were ... 3D fighter fatigue Nostalgic desire for something that resembled MK2. These factors moved casuals to buy the game more than any pro player input
Great commentary Bill. The line about casuals wanting everything and nothing is spot on. These dudes were not around when you couldn’t just patch things out of games.
Competitive doesn't matter. Nor does casual. Fun should win every time in game development. Worrying about making a game for the competitive scene is exactly how we got MK11.
But how do you dictate what fun is? Cause fun is subjective. And if competitive don't matter nor does casual, then for who are they making the game? The inbetween? Cause I'm sure like 97% are inbetweens......the casuals will play the story, finish invasions and go back to FIFA, COD, or leave it all, watching some movies or shit........ The more I listen to these" I want everyone to be broken" arguements cause it's "fun" that way: the more I'm convinced that all in favor just want to easy wins by steamrolling their opponents. It must feel good but on the other end they are not having fun. So how do you deal with that problem from a developer's standpoint? And the thing about casuals finding things annoying and complaining about it.... even pros have complained. They all agree shit is annoying. But when a pro loses, the character is annoying; and when a casual player loses, he needs to git gud....
Great discussion. Ive had much more fun with MK1 then MK11 gameplay wise. I pretty much only play kasual & ranked now.. despite getting frustrated with myself for dropping kombos among other things i still really enjoy the game & hoping for the necessary improvements to keep this game alive for a good while for the Kompetitive & Kasual community.
I think the biggest problem with this whole debate has been the term casual, you & fate are talking about completely different things when you both say casual, honestly I think we should break up the player base into more terms, I would suggest tourists (98% of players who will try out the game & leave within a few months) casuals (1% of player base who will stick to the game but won’t try to go competitive) & competitive (1% of players who go competitive). Feel free to suggest more if you have any ideas.
You hit the nail on the head with this one in fact this needs to be a pinned comment across this topic of FG's. i defintely do feel there are more terms that needs to be used in fighting games between casual and competitive does seem limited on where to lable a player like how you brought up the term tourist should be one because the casuals will still stick around they just aren't invested into the getting better&learning aspect they care about single player stuff and just playing with friends so they can't really be put in the same category as players that just comes and go play a FG lose a few times then leave to another game so you're absolutely correct bro i agree.
I always believed the worst thing devs could do work balancing was nerf characters to the ground. A fun and greatly competitive fighting game to me is one where all characters are strong. Make characters ridiculously powerful in what they are good at. There will always be one character better than another, but to nerf a character to the point where they can feel drastically outplayed by other characters is horrible balancing.
Honestly, I think that as long as there is counterplay, let it rock. Nerf or buff as needed. Let skill and decision making in the clutch be what matters.
that is how i feel about tekken 8 when playing the beta. all characters feel strong, so i realy cant comain about getting beaten. my Main vharacter has strong tools. of course ones will have better moves than others but it makes me not complain haha. whereas in mk1 i do complain.
If the game is made for competitive purposes, they failed. If they made it for casuals, they also failed. No casual in the history of the world want cosmetics tied to rank. (Which subtly contributes to why KL is so aids and the worst ranked system on the market) And the competitive players could care less if cosmetics in ranked because they are gonna play the game no matter what, no matter how good or bad, no matter the balance, no matter the netcode. Competitive ranked players are going to play the game NO MATTER WHAT. The thing that will retain the most players, is if they went all in on making the game as least frustrating as possible and as fair as possible. If the game is fair and isn't super frustrating casuals will stick around. But since this game is neither, people play 3 games online and hop off. Theres no consistency, theres no over-arching design philosophy, you can tell just from playing the game, there is no "Big Boss" at NRS, who sits everyone down and goes "this is the direction we want gameplay to go and this is what we are looking for". Its very clearly a game that was designed by comittee with no real boss who had the final say. Just a bunch of devs who went "i think this is a good idea" and went with it.
@@obsolescentmystic2527 And competitive players wont tell you if something is unfair or actually broken because they want they precious online points and virtual wins, which the system NRS built actually incentivizes this. See the probelm? And Casual doesnt equal "a clueless idiot who doesnt know how fighting games work" get a grip man. A good chunk casual fighting game fans nowadays are just people who play multiple fighting games, so if a fighting game is objectively bad like MK1, they just wont play it.
@@georgealvarez1195Kompetitive players would nerf all of the fun elements out of the game in the name of balance if they could. Kasuals just wanna have fun options to do to their friends and randos. Mid lvl players which are the majority of people logging in everyday and are the ones getting screwed over the most. This isnt just a mk1 problem but a pvp game issue spanning the entire industry
@@georgealvarez1195that’s def not true lmao pro players and content creators that grind rank are often the most vocal group when something is broken or overturned or underwhelming. It’s that to the casual player they think everything is broken and use that as an excuse to not learn the game properly. Mk is not a bad game bro that’s your opinion that’s probably tied to your ranked success rather then just having fun playing the game .
@@georgealvarez1195 I play every fg franchise besides vs games and I know if you played me in any of them you'd be making these exact same complaints. You ruin games for the people that have passion for them. Go play a moba or something.
You know that meme where all the spider-men are blaming and pointing at each other, that's how I feel about it. I think everyone is at fault in one way or another and whether or not it all gets fixed one day is yet to be seen.
I feel like I'm in the silent majority of Mortal Kombat fans; the intermediate playerbase. I've been playing and practicing fighting games for way too long to be considered casual, and I lab stuff and look up frame data and guides and optimal combos without ever reaching high ranks or going to tournaments. I have a hell of a lot of fun with these games, MK1 included, and I can't wait to see more characters in the future. The only time I will call for nerfs are when there are outliers that are so powerful that it feels like a 1-player game (like how Baraka/Cyrax was, and how Johnny and Kung Lao Low Hat feel right now.) great video, and I also think FATE is wrong in assuming he's part of the casual playerbase
Yeah im right there with you. I personally love the game despite the flaws.. been playing MK ever since i was small. I lab alot and try to get better every time. I play kasuals & ranked all the time.. i main sub zero & Reiko.. excited for Ermac, Homelander & peacemaker
I, too, am enjoying the game...my only 2 complaints are the no cross play. im an xbox user based in Australia, so a lot of times, i might be playing the same 5 players all the time. no joke, i played 4 consecutive sets in a row on KL to the same player. So we need crossplay to widen the player base on KL.. Also, JC is OP. Other than that, i really enjoy the game. I would put it up there with mk9 and Mk Trilogy
Honestly spitting brother. I feel like the intermediate players across all fighting games are kind of an invisible group. At the point where beginner advice does nothing for you but you don’t really have any resources to learn how to get to that high level
You cannot blame the removal of options or the change in design philosophy in each game on only the casual audience. Everyone had the same complaints about each game. Pro players hated 50/50s in MKX, pro players hated zoning in Injustice 2, pro players hated breakaway in MK11. Those were complaints that everyone had so they were changed or nerfed.
You know was most ironic, casuals love mkx, especially pre last patch with armor launchers and other stuff. Breakaway was simply the nrs fault, they did same mechanic better in injustice 2 . And i never heard from any pro player they hate zoning in injustice or something like that
You just said yourself “Pros” and “Hardcore” gamers wanted that and mostly for their own personal benefit of having a main, and pros get payed for this so they can talk about wanting the game harder because they are at a whole other level of play, so as much shit as every pro talked about MK11 I didn’t listen to any of that bs because these pros still chose the most 3 broken characters in the game anyways to win every tournament 😂 Casual does not mean a whole new player to fighting games, Casual means your not trying to go pro so no your not gonna invest 3 whole weeks to learn a simple juggle combo and if it takes that much to learn it the game is getting put down
i would categories MK players as: Casuals: The majority of people who buy MK. they mainly there for the story modes, towers, skins, crystals etc. they will play 1v1 against friends or family. will dabble in KL before getting absolutely smashed and realising they aint about that life. Competitive Casuals: This is the majority of online KL players. kombantant to GM rank. Probably the group that complains the most. especially when it comes to fighting mechanics. Competitive players: Demi god to elder god. These are players that start to know the true mechanics of the game. who really only care about KL and the balances that have to do with that. Pro players: those who compete in professional tournaments and have a bigger enough knowledge of the game to know if something is truly OP.
As a former casual (i uninstalled like 2-3 weeks ago), my complaint is lack of moveset variety. You don't get the sense or feeling of variety. (mix-ups, particularly reptile) To define some words: string: any 3+ attack buttons that flow together combo: any combination of strings There's no means to variate strings together into combos for _most_ fighters. You pick almost any fighter and it feels like you are stuck having to do * string-1 into string-3 or * string-2 into string-3. You can't seem to do * string-1 into string-2 into string-3, * or string-2 into string-1 intro string-4 * or string-1 into string-2 intro string-4 * or string-2 into string-1 intro string-3 (with balancing limitations such as string-3/4 always being combo enders) On top of a whole pile of other small mechanical complaints, I hate the lack of moveset variety.
How many combo routes with you like? I can always find at least 4-5 different ways to get into a combo and it depends on which kameo you use as well @@lionellrichards3456
Theres no quality of life put into the game. All anyone talks about is fighting game mechanics so we feel that the pros are being catered to because the only discussion is fighting game mechanics. Theres no chess, motor kombat. No krypt no konquest. No variations no factions. The background of the game does not change ever. These are the quality of life options missing from the game that is 100 percent casual friendly. Skin and bones game no content only thing going for it is raw dog no foreplay gameplay and a painfully obvious prioritization of monetization character releases every month. MK1 makes me feel like a trick giving my money to a low performing prostitute that i have authentic feelings for that is used and abused by her pimp.
Why does everyone always split the game into only pro and casual. The majority of the consistent player base is neither casual nor competitive. Most of the consistent players are committed to the game beyond the level of a casual player but aren’t at the skill level of a pro player. We understand the mechanics conceptually but don’t fully grasp applying them in game time scenarios. For example my defense is terrible, but I don’t write that off as the games defensive mechanics being poor, I attribute to my own personal defensive tool kit being weak. I think part of the issue lies in the fact that inexperienced or unskilled yet committed players are being grouped in with casuals when the “majority of players” is being talked about. But what I will refer to as the “unskilled middle” tends to be more reserved when speaking on balance because we understand we aren’t of the skill level to fully speak on it. However the truly casual audience has no issue complaining because they haven’t put in enough time to understand the game isn’t unfair, they’re just not good at the game yet. Like most things it’s the voices on the far ends of each spectrum that tend to be the loudest while those in the middle make up the majority.
The one thing I dont understand is how did sub zero get reduced to a keep away character. This was the first mk ive bought since trilogy sub zero to me is a offensive power house whose power deals with ice i feel so bad for what the character has been reduced to
I can’t tell you the number of times I’ve started a match with the other person backing up and throwing projectiles, only for them to get on the mic and start cursing me out when I do it back to them.
That's just one sect of casuals. Casuals are also imo those who are like "wanna play some mk?" and just play the game with their friends like they're kids and dont take it too seriously. This is also just one sect.
The bit on stream about combos really nailed the issue imo. Combos used to be harder and casuals couldn't do them consistently. Naturally, casuals wanted combos to be easier, so NRS made them easier. Casuals are now getting hit by big combos from lower level players, so casuals want combos to be harder and/or shorter. You can't make casuals happy with gameplay bc they don't want to put the time into getting better and labbing. It's a moving target. They will move on after a month no matter what concessions you make for them. Replace combos with zoning, rushdown, ice clone, etc and the metaphor still stands. Casuals need characters, modes, unlockables, and other rewards to stay motivated. When all you have is invasions (one of the worst single player offerings in NRS history), a 4 hour story, and boring towers, casuals are gonna go online, get crushed, and then ask for nerfs and gameplay adjustments... then you get MK11 (which, coincidentally, had a much better single player offering/rewards and still has decent player numbers on steam).
Its not the lengths of the combos, its the level of damage they do. I got hit with a 700+ combo with Johnny/Sonja in KL and that was without a fatal blow. That's stupid. That level of damage shouldn't exist.
If you can’t just have fun playing matches and you need all that extra shit, game might not be for you. It’s nice to have, but the meat of the game is the competive ranked system. That’s the whole point of practicing these damn games. If I wanted to play an easier genre of game and rank up I would. But the whole point is learning combos, gaps, flawless blocks etc. if you’re not willing to put the time into the lab and then complain about getting cornered you’re full of crap. That simple.
I went a rewatched a e3 demo interview and yu can see how much love and fan service went into the making the detail was spot on even the tag team that wasn't used as much had such beautiful detail mk1 was not the first that had the team's do special outros when tagged in and out they need that love again but money is a mf man.
I'm a casual player & I agree with you 100%. But I fell off the Mortal Kombat scene way back, like I mean back during the UMK3 days. A seriously long time ago. I briefly tried playing MKX & hated it because of the players that were able to pull off what felt like infinite combos, where I made one move & I'd get rocked from one side of the screen to the other (I'm looking at you Triborg). For me, that wasn't fun feeling like I couldn't do anything at all. The thing that brought me back to MK was MK11. I really liked MK11's play style & mechanics. The pace felt more natural & felt like I was actually given a chance. I liked it because it was possible to win a match without memorizing a huge combo string & just being good with a character by thinking on your feet was possible & I didn't have to worry (for the 😊most part) that I was going to be in a situation where my opponent could lock me up by performing combo strings that never let me get back to neutral. So, as a casual player it kind of baffled me why so many competitive players hated MK11 & my impression was that it's because those never ending combo strings weren't possible anymore. Surprisingly, I find myself not liking MK1 for many of the same reasons the pro players dislike it, among many other fairly common reasons. I guess my point is that you're right, casual players can't be pleased because in many ways they don't know what they want from the game either. BUT I'm not one of those casuals that only want to utilize mechanics & don't want to deal with those she things when it's done to me. I actually hate those kinds of players. I also want a balanced game & enjoy the challenge of coming across a more highly skilled opponent because I take it as an opportunity to learn from my opponent. The thing I dislike THE MOST about MK1 is that the gameplay is so repetitive. I don't like seeing or performing the same combo string over & over & OVER again. I like being able to adapt to my opponent on the fly but without NEEDING to ultimately rely on the same sets of combo strings to get the win. I hate the formulaic nature of what MK1 had become. MK11 allowed me to adapt on the fly & still win without needing to resort to the same moves or combos over & over again. But that's just me & I know most other casuals are, unfortunately, those players that just want you steamroll you while you do nothing. Otherwise they have a tantrum over the mic & accuse you of being trash when you are able to beat that one demential playing style. It's a real problem. But you're absolutely right, these types of players have the loudest voice thanks to social media & they're the ones NRS seems to be trying to cater to & falling, making this game worse for everyone. Anyway, thanks for the video. Have a good one.
Yeah, this guy fate is wrong. Here's the thing about casuals.. They don't understand the game, thats why they are casual... You make the gameplay good from the hardcore players perspective and the casuals fall into place, because the game is good regardless. . The two audiences want different things, but if the gameplay isn't good no one is happy. Most of the time casuals have no idea if the game is good or not they just like fluff and if theres alot of it they will be happy regardless of the actual gameplay. The vast majority of the casual fan base have already left for the next shiny cloud, only the serious players remain so you cater to them post-release...
I vehemently disagree with this idea that "casual" = "a cluess idiot whose never played fighting games before and doesnt know how fighting games work or function". Thats called a new player, not a fking casual. Casuals do know when something is objectively good or bad, but instead of constantly complaining, theyll just leave. Are they gonna give NRS 3 page essay on whats wrong with the game and how to fix it? Probably not. You dont have to be a weatherman to know when the weather is shit and you should probably stay inside.
You can still keep both audiences, but you'd rather be a closed-minded elitist and watch them go to the other better game for them. It's no wonder the Steam charts are lower than SF6.
Yeah no dude your wrong af like someone else said casual doesn’t mean a totally new player, compared to SonicFoxx and Waz you yourself are a casual, if your not in tournaments on the literal live EVO and others your a casual too, when you cater to the niche then you screw your self, so you said they will all fall in line?? Well look at how wrong you are because reported on Steam Charts 91% of MK players stopped playing which means over 2,700,000 were Casuals that found the game lacking, or bad
FATE could be the biggest scam artist I've ever seen. He probably rivals Tom at this point when he ripped off his fans to pretend he was going to a tournament. The fact the this FATE idiot has created the following he has with his lack of knowledge and how shit he is is amazing. Tom should be proud
the online is ridiculous. no training while waiting for matches, slow loadings, slow character select, slow victory/loss screen, and some other stuff that makes the game soooo boring. i like this game but i dont have so much will to play it for long time
FATE doesn't realize that the even the casual community is improving, while he is not. The proof of this, is the fact that there are even several discussions about this. He needs to get his Game Up, not his Blame Up
I think a majority of mk9 love is nostalgia glasses. MK9 was my first competitive game ever and I was awful. My entire experience was just getting zoned by kabals.
And MK9 had 50-70% combos. And one of the main things that annoys casuals is "MK1 has long 40-50% combos". Lmao. At least pros understand all mechanics, while casuals just want to press buttons.
@@efarjeonfgc Please. What are YOU talking about? There are many top players who are saying SF6 is a joke. Drive rush is so miserable to play against you have Justakid, one of the best Juris in the world, playing the character with one of the best drive rushes in the game, complaining about it. MenaRD thinks the game is scrubby. SF6 has massive mechanical problems which is why actual high level players are down on it and it hasn't even been out half a year.
To me Casual means just having fun. Variety of things to do offline. Competitive means to get better, rank, and win online. For Casuals, FUN is everything. For Competitives, WINNING is everything....
This is 100% true. The perfect example for the competitive vs casual discourse ruining a fighting game has to be smash bros brawl/3DS. The moment nintendo went back to a similar formula (melee) the game blew up way beyond the previous 2 entries. It’s also a million times more fun than the casual focused mechanics of brawl/3ds.
You should have mentioned the term spamming it's a casual term used to describe an annoying strategy deemed unfair and dishonest commonly known to pros as zoning.
Its commonly confused with zoning, spamming is the term used for doing the same move over and over with 0 thought behind it. Which I have been called a spammer over just doing the same combo more than once.
Man, i’ve never wanted to refund a game more than MK1. The game is literal garbage. Why does NRS cater to casuals who dont know squat about fighting games and complain about every little thing that’s even slightly hard to learn?
Because they make more money off of the casuals. I am VERY happy that I refunded this garbage game on day 1. NRS/WB needs to do MUCH better if they want my money
@@magicmamba915 no it didn’t because MKX was all 50-50s. You are wrong and most likely got wiped in MK9. Just because you sucked doesn’t mean it was bad.
@@JakePhillips-yr2hq i told you the truth about combo system, and this do nothing about 50/50s. You dumb or what?? I prefer mk9 over X anyday, but combos in mk9 are not good. Smoke spam s32 4 times into f4 ex bomb it's not a cool combo, same with liu kang who spams b312 4 times into b24 into bicycle kick.
In injustice 2 sub zero had the fastest ice clone he has ever had and the reason for it was too get casual mk players to play the fuckin game, I had to always take a loss with my main captain cold and forced to play with aquaman in order to counter his ice clone
You’re lumping the crybabies and true casual players together. You think all these other games don’t have a bunch of people crying to developers on Twitter about how unfair something? Causal are complaining left and right about the prices, and skins. You see NRS changing anything??? I was around during MKU/TYM Internet forums. I promise, NRS didn’t listen to us then. NRS have always done whatever they wanted. You know this, Tom.
Did you enjoy the content where he lied to his fans pretending he needed money for a tournament only to no show and use the money for a brand new PS?! Yeah Toms great at ripping off his fans
I liked playing through mk9's challenge tower and online rooms. The story was also better. And no insane microtransactions. Mk9 was still a part of a time in gaming history where players could earn their reward instead of being milked and made to purchase everything. When there was dlc it was within reason.
Very insightful video, I think a lot of people forget that they buy a "copy" of the game, they don't onw the actual game, but the NRS have to make it suit the biggest player base, In order to make the game keep running, and potentially attracting more people to the game, so that they can keep making money so that they can pay their staff to keep up with updates and what not. I would love some more variety in the game, even for the aspect of fun, but I also think we live in a day and age where people like to complain more then they like to adapt !! and I hope some of the so called casuals would try and adapt more then complain, there are videos and champion guide of all characters in the game online, if they would just spend more times on those videos then they complaining about the game and it's current state, maybe then we all could have fun :) And yes I do agree I really hope that they will address the online play situation, not being able to punish or taking "your" turn in some situation is very sad and should be a top prio. Thanks for you video and input as always :)
I’m in that ”competitive” catagory of players who could win a round or 3 against a pro in a first to 10 but I’d still consider myself a “casual”. There different layers in between competitive and Casual imo. You got people who are casual but WANT to improve, and they are eager to learn, get slapped around 30 times in a row just to learn to respect plusframes. And then there are the filthy casuals. You know the people who only care for the lore, skins and characters. Give them an autocombo and they’d spam it. Maybe learn some special move inputs and that’s were it ends. It ain’t about the depth for them, it’s about roleplaying the powerfantasy that is being Scorpion for them. When they don’t get to live their powerfantasy when they go online they start crying. These people don’t want to learn by losing. Not just in the game. Also in their mentality towards pro’s. They don’t get it. They are usually the type of people who never had to work hard and take a beating to get somewere. It’s almost pointless to discuss with them. They want everything they like. They don’t want anything they don’t. Withoit realising sometimes you have to eat shit for a while and reap the rewards after.
I was in kasual and played a shang who was lao hat zoning hard. So? I swapped to sub kameo and reverse zoned. The guy hopped on the mic, cursed me out for playing "lame" and quit. THAT is the casual audience
My favourite was MKX and I love MK1 i win online with General Shao and I also lose games I don’t cry when I lose I love playing better players because it makes me better I’m a casual but love watching the pros and learning..
Honestly, I felt like flawless block attacks were a good defensive mechanic when you were under pressure, and it took alot of skill to master and learn certain strings That can be flawless blocked. I felt that should’ve made its return.
FATE is a content farmer fro YT. All his talking points are nothing more than overly ridiculous hot takes and above all else he knows this. Look how tries to refer to Brusk a shill over a tweet about Tanya's face. I listened to his debates and also looked at some of his videos and he does what so many do. Constant goal post shifting, consistently interrupts people and makes bold claims that are not even provable. He does what he does BC he knows it will get attention and that is it. He generates a audience that is hostile to anyone that goes against his words and if u notice lately his videos have been getting ruined in the comments sections talking down his stupid. I do agree with all you sad here BC u are correct and its been stated multiple times throughout every NRS game life cycle. I applaud ur ability to be patient in speaking with this klown.
I think this game shows the holes in the community and NRS alike. Something happened? How did we get so outta touch with the community and NRS with us? Think about what happened to the heart of MK and calmly discuss matters of how we can contribute to making fighting games as a whole not just MK better for everyone. Thank you, Tom, for voicing your opinions and likes and dislikes about this game and the community. Very much appreciated.
What it all boils down to is that EVERYONE WANTS THEIR OWN VERSION OF A MK GAME THAT FAVORS AND CATERS TO THEM AND ONLY THEM WITHOUT LEARNING AND ADAPTING!!!!!!THAT'S THE ISSUE!!!!! AS LONG AS THEY "WIN" THEY HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH THE GAME BUT AWWW SHIT IF THEY EVER LOSE WATCH OUT.......
Your MK9 history lesson is interesting but it sort of falls down on its face. Your assertion was its popularity was primarily due to pro player input in the absence of social media. If that is truly the case then one could say mk4 through 8 sucked due to that same input from pro players. This would suggest that pro player input is equally as flawed.
There are 3 types of players. Casual, Non-Pro and Pro. The casual players are the ones who love the series, buy it and play it for a month and then move on. The Non-Pro players are players who love the franchise, buy it on release and continue to play it regularly for the life of the game. The Pro player is like the Non-Pro except they play the game at the highest level and break down all the elements of the game for the best ways to compete and win at the highest level. MK tries to cater for all 3 but as you have said in this video, the Pro Player is at the bottom of the pecking order.
I think my issue with Kameo's is that all the characters can end up with the same attributes/attack types. I think MK11 had a greater variety with grapplers, all rounders, zoners etc.
They need to Buff the Motaro teleport. I’ll read a projectile fullscreen and by the time I teleport behind my opponent m, they have time to block again!!!
His projectile parry should also only be 1 version and walk with the character instead of spending the whole bar for him to walk a bit and disappear after 1.7 seconds
The biggest problem is the get off my yard mentality from some pro players and the this is too hard from casuals that do t want to take time to learn it… shit is hard to get right because both sides don’t want to give each way
Bro when are we getting some buffs for the lower end character and kameos. We need it. I wanna see reptiles running around, and like motaro and Sonya rising.
I don't think you're talking about casuals. I think you're talking about scrubs. Casuals won't mind if someone or something is good. The scrubs who want to mash and win but don't have the execution or strategy or calm mind who don't know how to relax and learn from a loss are the ones vocalizing complaints on social media. They now have a platform to get attention by complaining. Often, people who discuss things online never even participate. It's just a topic of conversation. Companies need to learn socializing online is the new activity. It has nothing to do with their products or customers.
You made a lot good points Tom. I remember in the era of MK9 there was no bitchin' youtubers (all knowing experts) about this and that. Games were annoying against Cyrax, Sonya, Kabal, Cage but we exploited every possibilities to make those match-ups less stressful. Occasionally some scrubs made it to TYM, cry about this and that, post got closed and we moved on. I stopped playing MK9 online once MKX came out, and it was the only game I had over 12K played games. locally the online even wasnt that bad as I remember. Went back and installed in on PC about year and half ago when we couldnt look at MK11 anymore. Jesus Christmas that game was a cluster f#ck. You have to understand that all the complaining is coming form the "Entitled Generation" aka Gen Z, which are used to get things done easy. Coming from COD or some other games like LOL or God knows what else Mortal Kombat (as easy as it is in the FG games) is still a challenge. At some point without proper lab time there is no way to pass through some stuff, and there is the problem. Lack of patience, instant gratification etc... Looking back things were much harder. Online content was not as powerful as it is now, and yet it is not enough. As you said "this is annoying" gets things changed. I've seen a lot of new eager to play the game in our local community when the game was on the horizon (those who started with MK11) thinking they will do as good as they did in Mk11, but they didnt. A lot of complaining there. The meter not generating, three sticks or bar for a breaker (oh these kids were furious). The truth is with time they will sell the game at some point sooner rather than later and go back to whatever they were playing before. MK1 has a lot of issues, seems like a half way though finished product. I personally had the game since day one and I havent played the story mode, tower or anything else yet. I simply dont care for it. Fact is the online is an embracement, and its really like playing two different games. I really hope NRS will patch things up as the time goes by.
Stop with Fatal Blows and comeback mechanics. And if one character is stupid, make them all stupid. Stop giving 3 characters 100 useful strings with no gaps/plus frames galore/weird things that give unnecessary advantage to an already OP character (“Johnny has an automatic stunt person that helps him in the match if he connects 2 straight shadow kick… just because!”) but give everyone else 2 strings (total!) with caps and 2 specials. This isn’t tier talk. For instance, you give Johnny “Star Power”… then give Scorpion “Flame” or something so he gets covered in flames and does more damage when close. Stop having this major imbalance in your games NRS.
Fate thinks anyone who does a 17 hit B&B is cheating and using hacks. I'm super casual. I don't have time to practice hardcore because of work and kids. I like MK1 but i don't play as much anymore because every other fights is like pressing a slideshow. Nothing i practice in the lab works in most figures because of input delay. I hated mk11 because it was easier to start offense by getting knocked down and fighting off the floor. Fate doesn't speak for me
Casuals like myself would like to play the game and not have to sweat or spend hours practicing moves etc in order to play. Fighting games don’t necessarily need a huge skill gap (far as knowing every move and the frame rate of the moves) otherwise you’re separating the player base. I didn’t buy MK1 because i knew it’d be all about these long pro level combos ..and that atrocious looking tag team fighting was a complete turnoff.
I feel like there could be a simple fix, we just need two modes. Similar to Fortnite has done with building and no building. All we need is an alternate mode that has limited combo options so that casuals can just go online and beat on each other without having to worry about a highlevel player juggling them for so long. They could have the mode Labeled as "Klassic" it could play like the old school mk games but with the new shiny graphics and whistles. boom done, casuals get a fun brain dead option and high level players can continue as planned.
My opinion , the word "pro" in gaming terms is silly because most dont make pro money , so it actually is a substitute for the word "better" . So yes the better player should win and mechanics should be geared towards that
MK9 is overrated, you giving it as an example of a good game says a lot. It didn't just have its "problems", it was a broken mess so how can it then be a good game? Because you can chip people to death with your plus on block strings as a, lets say, Johnny? You give Fate as an example and say Kabal was his fave in MK9/11. Cool, another player who loved his broken (especially MK9 Kabal) characters lol. MK1 is 10x the game MK9 was, especially in terms of balance. Of course, there's room for improvements. Yes, games are catering more and more towards casuals and casuals don't really know what they want but I rather have that than have anything close to MK9 if thats what pro players want.
I agree with the critique of the systems but asking casuals to change thier behaviour is self defeating. They're not engaged, thats what makes them casuals. We should be directing our energy at the devs, encouraging them not to make gameplay changes on behalf of an audience they wont retain regardless. They should honestly know better.
Oh I agree with Socallhoneybadger not every character needs Overheads Highs Mids and Lows but there are and u can tell characters are PURPOSELY lacking and missing strings and Buffs they would normally have to complement this kameo system. Yes I understand meter management also. I have to do it in Street Fighter. Tom I've been playing game since I was 8 years old. I'm no pro but im not ignorant either. I also take Pro's advice. Use it as a template and make it my own. I agree with Fate on scrapping. But I also agree with Pro's. Fundamentals footsy meter management and so on. I get both sides
I’ll say this. There certain plights, for lack of a better word, that certain gamer archetypes won’t understand. Meaning sometimes casuals are right, and sometimes competitive players. Likewise there are times when both archetypes are wrong simply BECAUSE they are that archetype. I can never fully submit the direction of changes in a game to Pros, nor casuals. At a certain point, we ask ourselves do game developers even GAME for real??
yo, how do you guys deal with striker grenades after a shadow kick or a slide or tele, i feel like I’m not thinking clearly because I’m so focused on trying to punish a move that so negative Not thinking about the assist after. What do you guys do in those situations? it really bothers me to miss a punish on something like that you know, but it’s not really a punishable because of the assist so am i being too impatient?
@@spacemanju7 i don’t armor every time but like just on instances where the higher grenade won’t hit me, but ok coo im dog shit trying not to be tho… It just seems like striker is always ready to go, but he’s a good assist so…gotta find a way and be better thanks for replying 🙏🏿
As a long time competitive player whos only played MK im about to put the game down if they dont fix this johnny/lao issue. Game is not fun at all both casuals and ranked you fight nothing but johhny lao and gotta sweat your ass off its getting old
Oh I'm with u on buffing characters up to par with other characters also. I hate Nerfs unless something is truly broken. Besides that u should learn the fundamentals basics. Full offensive and defensive options, footsy spacing, data excetra 100% agree with u
And the most annoying insanely stupid bullshit about this: Those same casuals complaining, then play characters Sub was supposed to counter. In the exact way sub was supposed to be countering them
I'll end the competition vs casual players right here. It needs to be like tekken. Where you can play any character you want and have simple combos for them and play the character in a very simple way. But have a high skill sealing..like Kazuya I can do wgf but the better I get his wgf will turn into ewgf. What then turn into pewgf..you don't need any of those to win it just makes the character grow with you..heck I know some blue ranks that rarely ever use ewgf..they just are defensive and punish more..
this debate is dumb the fact is the casual player pays the bills they are the majority of yalls views in Tournaments. Competitive players give us hype moments but how long have Competitive screamed they are broke and our scene should get bigger... okay then. We NEED EACH OTHER or yall can keep asking the developers to put more money in yalls Tournaments.
I’ve been playing MK since the 90s casually on and off for years I played a little bit of MK9 and played abit of MKX which was my favourite one I played a little of MK11 but I didn’t like it but I absolutely love MK1 and I play it everyday in ranked grand master and I’m trying to reach god I’ve never complained if I lose I’m like okay cool I need to improve and I’ve improved so much by just watching the pros and seeing what they do. I play with General Shao/Kung Lao and Raiden/Jax and have so much fun win or lose casuals are the annoying people who can’t handle losing and them crying about it
I’m just so glad the crybabies don’t get their way with Tekken. I used to play alot of FPS games Rainbow Six siege was one of my favorite games but it’s yet another game that was destroyed by crybabies. The devs reduced the damage, the speed, the movement options, removed grenades, removed weapons, etc etc now the game is just a sad pathetic shell of it’s former self.
It’s even worse because everything these people complain about has an answer. If you labbed for even five seconds. The 3 major complains i hear are easily solved. C: Chip is too prevalent! S: Learn flawless blocking C: I keep getting trapped in the corner by Johnny and Sub-Zero! S: You can upblock johnnys overhead launcher and punish. Sun Zero has you cornered? Be patient - don’t press buttons and get ice cloned. Wait for him to make a mistake. THEY ALL PRESS BACK 2 EVENTUALLY. C: I can’t play the game! It’s never my turn! S: you’re most likely getting jailed. Into a safe block string. I would recommend going into the lab and finding gaps you can armor or poke through. This way you can disrupt there offense and take your turn back by poking into a grab or going into you own block string. You exploiting that gap with a armored move and rest the neutral.
As an aggro subby who also likes Cyrax Mk9 was really good but I didn't like the campiness it allowed. There were just situations where I wanted to do my thing with sub and setup some aggressive openings and I just get camped out and I'm like "welp time to go Cyrac so I can actually play". I'm fine with subby wubby having some bad MUs that I'll cover with another character, but that one gripe I had with mk9 was just that. Getting camped in that game felt like shit.. I don't think of MK as a game to camp someone in, go play call of duty for that lmao
I agree and disagree, 18:31 it’s just the new era/the human way to complain in wine because when lose in a fighting game you only can blame yourself, people can’t accept that. Deadshot, Centrion, Grand master sub, zodd etc. I seen plenty of pro players whining on social media as well as casuals.
I don’t think pro players are ruining the casual experience I think the internet is. Even during the mk9 and even MKX era casuals usually stayed squarely in the casual roll. They may have looked uo some TH-cam combo videos but that was about it. Now even casuals are watching streams, watching tournament players watching hour long guide videos with setups etc. So now casuals and randoms online who have no intention of ever sniffing a tournament are able to do combos and setups like tournament players but they don’t have the neutral or defensive skills of those players. In my kind that’s what’s ruining the casual experience . Everybody wants to play the broken stuff as if their playing in a tournament or training for a tournament when their just an online casual . And it’s not just an Mk problem it’s an every fighting game problem .
Most important thing, casuals are only imposters, they just copy pro players meta and give the mental dmg for their selfs because they meet another casual in KL
i dislike how cosmetics are tied to kombat league, i have to get creative in how to rank up easiest. i can rank up to the third tier without participating in a match, which I appreciate. generally i just take losses to rank up, seems strange, but it works.
Let me be fair. I'll tell u what I don't like about Street fighter and why. I don't want Ken, JP or Luke Nerfed. Instead bring up other characters to par with them. I think the Moden controls are a hand holding system. If players want to play the game. They need to learn the fundamentals, imputs, footsy, spacing, safe and unsafe moves, meter management and so on Not just the combo's but the fundamentals of the game. I agree with Pro players on this. I don't want the game to be easy. I want a challenging game. I'm a Gen X just like u Tom. We didn't have patches back then. U had to get good. Street Fighter is also dipping it's toes in the ESG, Diversity representation, political, Trans bull shit. But besides that. Street Fighter keep the core and foundation of the game. Stuff I was doing in 1991 I can still do today. They still have a One v One system. They added Drive System. No I don't know it that well yet but I'll learn it. Characters have full move kits. Not all of them have Overheads Highs Mids and Lows. They don't need them like Socallhoneybadger explained in his video. In his video. But they have a full move kit. U know what I mean Tom. Even thou I think Moden controls are Bull shit a hand holding system. They still have classic controls. If MK had One V One system and characters we're purposely lacking moves to complement this kameo system. If the imputs we're cleaned up, On line wasn't shit. I can't tell u how much the game freezes when I played in Rank. If they would for example revert Sub Zero give him his classic Ice Ball. Make it where Ice clone u could at least block. After u do it like u explained. I 100% agree with u on your Sub Zero video Tom. This game has the potential. It has the best aspects of MK Deception, MK9 and MK11. I think the combo's are great WITHOUT the kameo system. I don't even think the kameo system would be relevant. If characters had the moves they were purposely lacking to complement this kameo system. Another Example Scorpion Buff his forward 3,2. Fuck make it like Omni Man. He has the same dam move. Buff his teleport like any other MK game and his Hell Fire. Give him a Low starting string. He'd be a complete character Liu Kang is much better then Scorpion. But no Low string. Part of the reason Kung Lao low hat is so popular. Give Liu Kang a low string. He's complete. There characters dont need much at all. They are good characters for the most part. The ones I know and played with add Kitana. It's the Kameo System and lack of moves. That I hate. I know they won't implement a one v one system and they won't give characters moves there purposely lacking because of the philosophy of this MK1 system. So I'm no longer interested in the game. I'd rather go to Street Fighter or Tekken. Yes they have new systems too. I'm going to have to learn get good at. But they have One v One system. I fucking hate assist games. Never have liked them. I bought MK1 because I hope in the future they'll implement a One v One or a Tag system. Theres hope because the leaks says there a fully functional Tag system in the files. If that gets implement. I'd come back to MK but as it stands. I'm simple not interested in an assist game. I'd rather move on. MK not the same Mk game I grew up playing. Oh to make it clear. Keep the Kameo System. For those who like assist games. I'm glad it was implemented. My issue is unlike Street Fighter and Tekken that added new systems also. MK took out the fundamentals core system. One v one system. Tekken and Street Fighter didn't do that. They added and stuck to traditional. This game has the potential. But I don't see it coming to fruition. Its going in a different direction. One im not interested in. That's why I quit. Its just not the game it use to be in my opinion. I still love MK just not this one. I've supported for 30 year. My favorites are Mk MK2 Mk3 Trilogies MK9 MKX MK11. I agree with Both u Fate, Foxy Grandpa, Socallhoneybadger,Ninjakiller and Tweedy. On a lot of things . This games just not for me. Thats the realization I've come too. I can look past issue that could be fixed in the future. I can even look past the other bull shit to a point. But I simple hate assist games. In my opinion it will be the down fall of MK1. They never be able to balance this game. Its a conflict of interest. Kameos vs non kameos. In my opinion. NrS seems to be committed to this Kameo system. So I'd advice them to just go with it. U can't please everyone. Your going to loose player. But thats something they'll have to lean and accept. The game would have been so much better if they had a One v One system. Only thing I can think of is separate balancing and having both One v One system and Kameo system. But thats not going to happen. So just stick with the Kameo System and go with it. The games going to be broke as fuck all assist games are. So just make it fun and accept your looses. Thats the best NRS can do.
"Mankind knew that they cannot change society. So, instead of reflecting on themselves, they blamed the beasts"
YEEEEAAASSS
HAHAHA
Two other important reasons for the success of MK9 which had nothing to do with the holy grail that is pro input were ...
3D fighter fatigue
Nostalgic desire for something that resembled MK2.
These factors moved casuals to buy the game more than any pro player input
Great commentary Bill. The line about casuals wanting everything and nothing is spot on. These dudes were not around when you couldn’t just patch things out of games.
It not being able to be patched out doesn't mean they were okay. They released other versions of the same game, patching out the problems.
@@jeslucas2515 yeah, It’s still not a patch. In the arcades they were revisions & on consoles they were updated entries that you had to buy btw.
@@KARS215 sounds like a patch to me.
That's why MK was looked at as a joke for a LONG time. UMK3 was probably the most loved MK till MK9.
@@jeslucas2515you wouldn’t get it you had to be there. School doesn’t teach comprehension skills anymore, so I couldn’t tell you to go back.
Competitive doesn't matter. Nor does casual. Fun should win every time in game development. Worrying about making a game for the competitive scene is exactly how we got MK11.
But how do you dictate what fun is? Cause fun is subjective. And if competitive don't matter nor does casual, then for who are they making the game? The inbetween? Cause I'm sure like 97% are inbetweens......the casuals will play the story, finish invasions and go back to FIFA, COD, or leave it all, watching some movies or shit........
The more I listen to these" I want everyone to be broken" arguements cause it's "fun" that way: the more I'm convinced that all in favor just want to easy wins by steamrolling their opponents. It must feel good but on the other end they are not having fun. So how do you deal with that problem from a developer's standpoint?
And the thing about casuals finding things annoying and complaining about it.... even pros have complained. They all agree shit is annoying. But when a pro loses, the character is annoying; and when a casual player loses, he needs to git gud....
Fighting 10 Johnny/Lao players in a row in kombat league is not fun
Great discussion. Ive had much more fun with MK1 then MK11 gameplay wise. I pretty much only play kasual & ranked now.. despite getting frustrated with myself for dropping kombos among other things i still really enjoy the game & hoping for the necessary improvements to keep this game alive for a good while for the Kompetitive & Kasual community.
All you can do is play online 😂
@@JustSendMeLocation lol yea invasion is kinda meh. When we gonna get a mk kart racing mode again 😭
@@JustSendMeLocationit’s a fighting game that’s what you suppose to do go online and fight
I think the biggest problem with this whole debate has been the term casual, you & fate are talking about completely different things when you both say casual, honestly I think we should break up the player base into more terms, I would suggest tourists (98% of players who will try out the game & leave within a few months) casuals (1% of player base who will stick to the game but won’t try to go competitive) & competitive (1% of players who go competitive).
Feel free to suggest more if you have any ideas.
I would 100% agree. I think that’s something that professional players who debate have been missing for a long time.
You hit the nail on the head with this one in fact this needs to be a pinned comment across this topic of FG's. i defintely do feel there are more terms that needs to be used in fighting games between casual and competitive does seem limited on where to lable a player like how you brought up the term tourist should be one because the casuals will still stick around they just aren't invested into the getting better&learning aspect they care about single player stuff and just playing with friends so they can't really be put in the same category as players that just comes and go play a FG lose a few times then leave to another game so you're absolutely correct bro i agree.
I always believed the worst thing devs could do work balancing was nerf characters to the ground. A fun and greatly competitive fighting game to me is one where all characters are strong. Make characters ridiculously powerful in what they are good at. There will always be one character better than another, but to nerf a character to the point where they can feel drastically outplayed by other characters is horrible balancing.
Honestly, I think that as long as there is counterplay, let it rock. Nerf or buff as needed. Let skill and decision making in the clutch be what matters.
that is how i feel about tekken 8 when playing the beta. all characters feel strong, so i realy cant comain about getting beaten. my Main vharacter has strong tools. of course ones will have better moves than others but it makes me not complain haha. whereas in mk1 i do complain.
If the game is made for competitive purposes, they failed. If they made it for casuals, they also failed. No casual in the history of the world want cosmetics tied to rank. (Which subtly contributes to why KL is so aids and the worst ranked system on the market) And the competitive players could care less if cosmetics in ranked because they are gonna play the game no matter what, no matter how good or bad, no matter the balance, no matter the netcode. Competitive ranked players are going to play the game NO MATTER WHAT. The thing that will retain the most players, is if they went all in on making the game as least frustrating as possible and as fair as possible. If the game is fair and isn't super frustrating casuals will stick around. But since this game is neither, people play 3 games online and hop off. Theres no consistency, theres no over-arching design philosophy, you can tell just from playing the game, there is no "Big Boss" at NRS, who sits everyone down and goes "this is the direction we want gameplay to go and this is what we are looking for". Its very clearly a game that was designed by comittee with no real boss who had the final say. Just a bunch of devs who went "i think this is a good idea" and went with it.
Casuals are literally incapable of knowing what's fair and what's not
@@obsolescentmystic2527 And competitive players wont tell you if something is unfair or actually broken because they want they precious online points and virtual wins, which the system NRS built actually incentivizes this. See the probelm? And Casual doesnt equal "a clueless idiot who doesnt know how fighting games work" get a grip man. A good chunk casual fighting game fans nowadays are just people who play multiple fighting games, so if a fighting game is objectively bad like MK1, they just wont play it.
@@georgealvarez1195Kompetitive players would nerf all of the fun elements out of the game in the name of balance if they could. Kasuals just wanna have fun options to do to their friends and randos. Mid lvl players which are the majority of people logging in everyday and are the ones getting screwed over the most. This isnt just a mk1 problem but a pvp game issue spanning the entire industry
@@georgealvarez1195that’s def not true lmao pro players and content creators that grind rank are often the most vocal group when something is broken or overturned or underwhelming. It’s that to the casual player they think everything is broken and use that as an excuse to not learn the game properly. Mk is not a bad game bro that’s your opinion that’s probably tied to your ranked success rather then just having fun playing the game .
@@georgealvarez1195 I play every fg franchise besides vs games and I know if you played me in any of them you'd be making these exact same complaints. You ruin games for the people that have passion for them. Go play a moba or something.
You know that meme where all the spider-men are blaming and pointing at each other, that's how I feel about it. I think everyone is at fault in one way or another and whether or not it all gets fixed one day is yet to be seen.
It's hilarious to have people complain about defense in a game where Sento stance exists.
Yea kenshi has 2 assist which is ridiculous. While kenshi is blocking sento shouldn't be able to move
The pros will say it’s balanced and call you a complaining casual who is ruining the game.
@@spacemanju7play other puppet characters in games, that's the whole point of puppet characters. While spirit is out, kameo is unavailable
@@magicmamba915 Name one. Because that shit doesn't exist for puppet characters even in anime games.
@@ItsJustTeddington eddy can hit you while zato is blocking, no?
I feel like I'm in the silent majority of Mortal Kombat fans; the intermediate playerbase.
I've been playing and practicing fighting games for way too long to be considered casual, and I lab stuff and look up frame data and guides and optimal combos without ever reaching high ranks or going to tournaments. I have a hell of a lot of fun with these games, MK1 included, and I can't wait to see more characters in the future. The only time I will call for nerfs are when there are outliers that are so powerful that it feels like a 1-player game (like how Baraka/Cyrax was, and how Johnny and Kung Lao Low Hat feel right now.)
great video, and I also think FATE is wrong in assuming he's part of the casual playerbase
Yeah im right there with you. I personally love the game despite the flaws.. been playing MK ever since i was small. I lab alot and try to get better every time. I play kasuals & ranked all the time.. i main sub zero & Reiko.. excited for Ermac, Homelander & peacemaker
Most people watching these videos is like that. I have no idea who these casual are that they’re talking about.
I, too, am enjoying the game...my only 2 complaints are the no cross play. im an xbox user based in Australia, so a lot of times, i might be playing the same 5 players all the time. no joke, i played 4 consecutive sets in a row on KL to the same player. So we need crossplay to widen the player base on KL.. Also, JC is OP. Other than that, i really enjoy the game. I would put it up there with mk9 and Mk Trilogy
Johnny Cage for me is the only character right now that needs a nerf his plus frames are ridiculous and annoying
Honestly spitting brother. I feel like the intermediate players across all fighting games are kind of an invisible group. At the point where beginner advice does nothing for you but you don’t really have any resources to learn how to get to that high level
You cannot blame the removal of options or the change in design philosophy in each game on only the casual audience. Everyone had the same complaints about each game. Pro players hated 50/50s in MKX, pro players hated zoning in Injustice 2, pro players hated breakaway in MK11. Those were complaints that everyone had so they were changed or nerfed.
You know was most ironic, casuals love mkx, especially pre last patch with armor launchers and other stuff. Breakaway was simply the nrs fault, they did same mechanic better in injustice 2 . And i never heard from any pro player they hate zoning in injustice or something like that
You just said yourself “Pros” and “Hardcore” gamers wanted that and mostly for their own personal benefit of having a main, and pros get payed for this so they can talk about wanting the game harder because they are at a whole other level of play, so as much shit as every pro talked about MK11 I didn’t listen to any of that bs because these pros still chose the most 3 broken characters in the game anyways to win every tournament 😂
Casual does not mean a whole new player to fighting games, Casual means your not trying to go pro so no your not gonna invest 3 whole weeks to learn a simple juggle combo and if it takes that much to learn it the game is getting put down
@@DrippleDragon simple juggle learning time is 10-15 minutes, wtf are you talking about?)
I beg to differ. MKX is my favorite game because its the closest thing we got to MK3. Imo MK3 was the ultimate MK classic that defined MK in that era.
i would categories MK players as:
Casuals: The majority of people who buy MK. they mainly there for the story modes, towers, skins, crystals etc. they will play 1v1 against friends or family. will dabble in KL before getting absolutely smashed and realising they aint about that life.
Competitive Casuals: This is the majority of online KL players. kombantant to GM rank. Probably the group that complains the most. especially when it comes to fighting mechanics.
Competitive players: Demi god to elder god. These are players that start to know the true mechanics of the game. who really only care about KL and the balances that have to do with that.
Pro players: those who compete in professional tournaments and have a bigger enough knowledge of the game to know if something is truly OP.
As a former casual (i uninstalled like 2-3 weeks ago), my complaint is lack of moveset variety. You don't get the sense or feeling of variety. (mix-ups, particularly reptile)
To define some words:
string: any 3+ attack buttons that flow together
combo: any combination of strings
There's no means to variate strings together into combos for _most_ fighters.
You pick almost any fighter and it feels like you are stuck having to do
* string-1 into string-3 or
* string-2 into string-3.
You can't seem to do
* string-1 into string-2 into string-3,
* or string-2 into string-1 intro string-4
* or string-1 into string-2 intro string-4
* or string-2 into string-1 intro string-3
(with balancing limitations such as string-3/4 always being combo enders)
On top of a whole pile of other small mechanical complaints, I hate the lack of moveset variety.
Very limited combo routes I agree. The game feels lazy and uninspired. The game is totally passionate about the message and monetization though.
This has been NRS though since MK3
lack of move set up and mix up is not true. The game offers up a ton of different ways to combo into stuff with your character with different kameos.
How many combo routes with you like? I can always find at least 4-5 different ways to get into a combo and it depends on which kameo you use as well @@lionellrichards3456
@@lionellrichards3456 That is the dumbest thing I've read all day.
Theres no quality of life put into the game. All anyone talks about is fighting game mechanics so we feel that the pros are being catered to because the only discussion is fighting game mechanics. Theres no chess, motor kombat. No krypt no konquest. No variations no factions. The background of the game does not change ever. These are the quality of life options missing from the game that is 100 percent casual friendly. Skin and bones game no content only thing going for it is raw dog no foreplay gameplay and a painfully obvious prioritization of monetization character releases every month. MK1 makes me feel like a trick giving my money to a low performing prostitute that i have authentic feelings for that is used and abused by her pimp.
Why does everyone always split the game into only pro and casual. The majority of the consistent player base is neither casual nor competitive. Most of the consistent players are committed to the game beyond the level of a casual player but aren’t at the skill level of a pro player. We understand the mechanics conceptually but don’t fully grasp applying them in game time scenarios. For example my defense is terrible, but I don’t write that off as the games defensive mechanics being poor, I attribute to my own personal defensive tool kit being weak.
I think part of the issue lies in the fact that inexperienced or unskilled yet committed players are being grouped in with casuals when the “majority of players” is being talked about. But what I will refer to as the “unskilled middle” tends to be more reserved when speaking on balance because we understand we aren’t of the skill level to fully speak on it. However the truly casual audience has no issue complaining because they haven’t put in enough time to understand the game isn’t unfair, they’re just not good at the game yet. Like most things it’s the voices on the far ends of each spectrum that tend to be the loudest while those in the middle make up the majority.
This is me 100% perfectly said
The one thing I dont understand is how did sub zero get reduced to a keep away character. This was the first mk ive bought since trilogy sub zero to me is a offensive power house whose power deals with ice i feel so bad for what the character has been reduced to
A keep away character with the shittiest keep away damage
I can’t tell you the number of times I’ve started a match with the other person backing up and throwing projectiles, only for them to get on the mic and start cursing me out when I do it back to them.
Casuals are people that tell you to "get good" when they can do something right, but the minute it's turned on them they cry "unfair".
That's just one sect of casuals. Casuals are also imo those who are like "wanna play some mk?" and just play the game with their friends like they're kids and dont take it too seriously. This is also just one sect.
I call these casuals “scrubs.”
The bit on stream about combos really nailed the issue imo. Combos used to be harder and casuals couldn't do them consistently. Naturally, casuals wanted combos to be easier, so NRS made them easier. Casuals are now getting hit by big combos from lower level players, so casuals want combos to be harder and/or shorter. You can't make casuals happy with gameplay bc they don't want to put the time into getting better and labbing. It's a moving target. They will move on after a month no matter what concessions you make for them. Replace combos with zoning, rushdown, ice clone, etc and the metaphor still stands.
Casuals need characters, modes, unlockables, and other rewards to stay motivated. When all you have is invasions (one of the worst single player offerings in NRS history), a 4 hour story, and boring towers, casuals are gonna go online, get crushed, and then ask for nerfs and gameplay adjustments... then you get MK11 (which, coincidentally, had a much better single player offering/rewards and still has decent player numbers on steam).
Its not the lengths of the combos, its the level of damage they do. I got hit with a 700+ combo with Johnny/Sonja in KL and that was without a fatal blow. That's stupid. That level of damage shouldn't exist.
If you can’t just have fun playing matches and you need all that extra shit, game might not be for you. It’s nice to have, but the meat of the game is the competive ranked system. That’s the whole point of practicing these damn games. If I wanted to play an easier genre of game and rank up I would. But the whole point is learning combos, gaps, flawless blocks etc. if you’re not willing to put the time into the lab and then complain about getting cornered you’re full of crap. That simple.
I went a rewatched a e3 demo interview and yu can see how much love and fan service went into the making the detail was spot on even the tag team that wasn't used as much had such beautiful detail mk1 was not the first that had the team's do special outros when tagged in and out they need that love again but money is a mf man.
Tom's main in MK9 was Subzero? I don't believe that for a second.
This is a good troll lol.
I'm a casual player & I agree with you 100%. But I fell off the Mortal Kombat scene way back, like I mean back during the UMK3 days. A seriously long time ago. I briefly tried playing MKX & hated it because of the players that were able to pull off what felt like infinite combos, where I made one move & I'd get rocked from one side of the screen to the other (I'm looking at you Triborg). For me, that wasn't fun feeling like I couldn't do anything at all.
The thing that brought me back to MK was MK11. I really liked MK11's play style & mechanics. The pace felt more natural & felt like I was actually given a chance. I liked it because it was possible to win a match without memorizing a huge combo string & just being good with a character by thinking on your feet was possible & I didn't have to worry (for the 😊most part) that I was going to be in a situation where my opponent could lock me up by performing combo strings that never let me get back to neutral.
So, as a casual player it kind of baffled me why so many competitive players hated MK11 & my impression was that it's because those never ending combo strings weren't possible anymore.
Surprisingly, I find myself not liking MK1 for many of the same reasons the pro players dislike it, among many other fairly common reasons.
I guess my point is that you're right, casual players can't be pleased because in many ways they don't know what they want from the game either.
BUT I'm not one of those casuals that only want to utilize mechanics & don't want to deal with those she things when it's done to me. I actually hate those kinds of players. I also want a balanced game & enjoy the challenge of coming across a more highly skilled opponent because I take it as an opportunity to learn from my opponent.
The thing I dislike THE MOST about MK1 is that the gameplay is so repetitive. I don't like seeing or performing the same combo string over & over & OVER again. I like being able to adapt to my opponent on the fly but without NEEDING to ultimately rely on the same sets of combo strings to get the win. I hate the formulaic nature of what MK1 had become. MK11 allowed me to adapt on the fly & still win without needing to resort to the same moves or combos over & over again.
But that's just me & I know most other casuals are, unfortunately, those players that just want you steamroll you while you do nothing. Otherwise they have a tantrum over the mic & accuse you of being trash when you are able to beat that one demential playing style. It's a real problem.
But you're absolutely right, these types of players have the loudest voice thanks to social media & they're the ones NRS seems to be trying to cater to & falling, making this game worse for everyone.
Anyway, thanks for the video. Have a good one.
Yeah, this guy fate is wrong. Here's the thing about casuals.. They don't understand the game, thats why they are casual... You make the gameplay good from the hardcore players perspective and the casuals fall into place, because the game is good regardless. . The two audiences want different things, but if the gameplay isn't good no one is happy. Most of the time casuals have no idea if the game is good or not they just like fluff and if theres alot of it they will be happy regardless of the actual gameplay. The vast majority of the casual fan base have already left for the next shiny cloud, only the serious players remain so you cater to them post-release...
I vehemently disagree with this idea that "casual" = "a cluess idiot whose never played fighting games before and doesnt know how fighting games work or function". Thats called a new player, not a fking casual. Casuals do know when something is objectively good or bad, but instead of constantly complaining, theyll just leave. Are they gonna give NRS 3 page essay on whats wrong with the game and how to fix it? Probably not. You dont have to be a weatherman to know when the weather is shit and you should probably stay inside.
You can still keep both audiences, but you'd rather be a closed-minded elitist and watch them go to the other better game for them. It's no wonder the Steam charts are lower than SF6.
@@CabreraAparicio-xm1gsliterally only 3000 players on average in MK1 lol
Yeah no dude your wrong af like someone else said casual doesn’t mean a totally new player, compared to SonicFoxx and Waz you yourself are a casual, if your not in tournaments on the literal live EVO and others your a casual too, when you cater to the niche then you screw your self, so you said they will all fall in line?? Well look at how wrong you are because reported on Steam Charts 91% of MK players stopped playing which means over 2,700,000 were Casuals that found the game lacking, or bad
That fate guy is like cancer negativity in the mortal Kombat community. People like that want to win by mashing all buttons
Yeah he’s Fkn cringe
FATE could be the biggest scam artist I've ever seen. He probably rivals Tom at this point when he ripped off his fans to pretend he was going to a tournament. The fact the this FATE idiot has created the following he has with his lack of knowledge and how shit he is is amazing. Tom should be proud
the online is ridiculous.
no training while waiting for matches, slow loadings, slow character select, slow victory/loss screen, and some other stuff that makes the game soooo boring.
i like this game but i dont have so much will to play it for long time
FATE doesn't realize that the even the casual community is improving, while he is not. The proof of this, is the fact that there are even several discussions about this. He needs to get his Game Up, not his Blame Up
I think a majority of mk9 love is nostalgia glasses. MK9 was my first competitive game ever and I was awful. My entire experience was just getting zoned by kabals.
And MK9 had 50-70% combos. And one of the main things that annoys casuals is "MK1 has long 40-50% combos". Lmao. At least pros understand all mechanics, while casuals just want to press buttons.
The sad part is that sf6 is a better game, but no one will say that out loud cos it's not mk
As a hardcore MK fan, you're right.
SF6 is a terrible game at the moment too. No one is winning in this generation of fighting games.
@@kaosblatteso hyped for Tekken !!
@@kaosblatteno lol, what are you talking about? Sf6 is great.
@@efarjeonfgc Please. What are YOU talking about? There are many top players who are saying SF6 is a joke. Drive rush is so miserable to play against you have Justakid, one of the best Juris in the world, playing the character with one of the best drive rushes in the game, complaining about it. MenaRD thinks the game is scrubby. SF6 has massive mechanical problems which is why actual high level players are down on it and it hasn't even been out half a year.
I'm going to tell you like I told BruskPoet and Foxy Grandpa. You all need to get with Fate once a week and do a debate. It can be huge for you all.
Brusk is really lame but foxy is the man for sure.
1:08 This guy does not rep casuals. . .i have seen his videos and he's a strange dude.
To me Casual means just having fun. Variety of things to do offline. Competitive means to get better, rank, and win online. For Casuals, FUN is everything. For Competitives, WINNING is everything....
This is 100% true.
The perfect example for the competitive vs casual discourse ruining a fighting game has to be smash bros brawl/3DS.
The moment nintendo went back to a similar formula (melee) the game blew up way beyond the previous 2 entries. It’s also a million times more fun than the casual focused mechanics of brawl/3ds.
Very good video! I love the point about social media.
You should have mentioned the term spamming it's a casual term used to describe an annoying strategy deemed unfair and dishonest commonly known to pros as zoning.
Its commonly confused with zoning, spamming is the term used for doing the same move over and over with 0 thought behind it. Which I have been called a spammer over just doing the same combo more than once.
Man, i’ve never wanted to refund a game more than MK1. The game is literal garbage. Why does NRS cater to casuals who dont know squat about fighting games and complain about every little thing that’s even slightly hard to learn?
Because they make more money off of the casuals. I am VERY happy that I refunded this garbage game on day 1. NRS/WB needs to do MUCH better if they want my money
Mk9 was the best game. It had the best combo system.
Just spam launch string 4 time is not the best combo system, mkx and 1 has the best combos
Mk9 the GOAT. It's meter system is superior and variations are garbage. You also being hyperbolic about Mk9 combo system.@@magicmamba915
@@magicmamba915 no it didn’t because MKX was all 50-50s. You are wrong and most likely got wiped in MK9. Just because you sucked doesn’t mean it was bad.
@@JakePhillips-yr2hq i told you the truth about combo system, and this do nothing about 50/50s. You dumb or what?? I prefer mk9 over X anyday, but combos in mk9 are not good. Smoke spam s32 4 times into f4 ex bomb it's not a cool combo, same with liu kang who spams b312 4 times into b24 into bicycle kick.
@@JakePhillips-yr2hqBro MK X was 50/50s BUT it still had the best combos aswell
In injustice 2 sub zero had the fastest ice clone he has ever had and the reason for it was too get casual mk players to play the fuckin game, I had to always take a loss with my main captain cold and forced to play with aquaman in order to counter his ice clone
I'm high end begginer/ low end intermediate playing a low mid tier character and the game feels great.
You’re lumping the crybabies and true casual players together. You think all these other games don’t have a bunch of people crying to developers on Twitter about how unfair something? Causal are complaining left and right about the prices, and skins. You see NRS changing anything???
I was around during MKU/TYM Internet forums. I promise, NRS didn’t listen to us then. NRS have always done whatever they wanted. You know this, Tom.
Just wanna say hi and I always enjoy your content.
Did you enjoy the content where he lied to his fans pretending he needed money for a tournament only to no show and use the money for a brand new PS?! Yeah Toms great at ripping off his fans
I liked playing through mk9's challenge tower and online rooms. The story was also better. And no insane microtransactions. Mk9 was still a part of a time in gaming history where players could earn their reward instead of being milked and made to purchase everything. When there was dlc it was within reason.
Very insightful video, I think a lot of people forget that they buy a "copy" of the game, they don't onw the actual game, but the NRS have to make it suit the biggest player base, In order to make the game keep running, and potentially attracting more people to the game, so that they can keep making money so that they can pay their staff to keep up with updates and what not.
I would love some more variety in the game, even for the aspect of fun, but I also think we live in a day and age where people like to complain more then they like to adapt !! and I hope some of the so called casuals would try and adapt more then complain, there are videos and champion guide of all characters in the game online, if they would just spend more times on those videos then they complaining about the game and it's current state, maybe then we all could have fun :)
And yes I do agree I really hope that they will address the online play situation, not being able to punish or taking "your" turn in some situation is very sad and should be a top prio.
Thanks for you video and input as always :)
I’m in that ”competitive” catagory of players who could win a round or 3 against a pro in a first to 10 but I’d still consider myself a “casual”. There different layers in between competitive and Casual imo. You got people who are casual but WANT to improve, and they are eager to learn, get slapped around 30 times in a row just to learn to respect plusframes. And then there are the filthy casuals. You know the people who only care for the lore, skins and characters. Give them an autocombo and they’d spam it. Maybe learn some special move inputs and that’s were it ends. It ain’t about the depth for them, it’s about roleplaying the powerfantasy that is being Scorpion for them. When they don’t get to live their powerfantasy when they go online they start crying. These people don’t want to learn by losing. Not just in the game. Also in their mentality towards pro’s. They don’t get it. They are usually the type of people who never had to work hard and take a beating to get somewere. It’s almost pointless to discuss with them. They want everything they like. They don’t want anything they don’t. Withoit realising sometimes you have to eat shit for a while and reap the rewards after.
Bruh how do you run away using sub?It's always me chasing people around..unless ur using lao hat ofcourse
I was in kasual and played a shang who was lao hat zoning hard. So? I swapped to sub kameo and reverse zoned. The guy hopped on the mic, cursed me out for playing "lame" and quit. THAT is the casual audience
My favourite was MKX and I love MK1 i win online with General Shao and I also lose games I don’t cry when I lose I love playing better players because it makes me better I’m a casual but love watching the pros and learning..
Honestly, I felt like flawless block attacks were a good defensive mechanic when you were under pressure, and it took alot of skill to master and learn certain strings That can be flawless blocked. I felt that should’ve made its return.
Funny how your statement stands for every game with a competitive scene good video ❤️
FATE is a content farmer fro YT. All his talking points are nothing more than overly ridiculous hot takes and above all else he knows this. Look how tries to refer to Brusk a shill over a tweet about Tanya's face. I listened to his debates and also looked at some of his videos and he does what so many do.
Constant goal post shifting, consistently interrupts people and makes bold claims that are not even provable. He does what he does BC he knows it will get attention and that is it. He generates a audience that is hostile to anyone that goes against his words and if u notice lately his videos have been getting ruined in the comments sections talking down his stupid.
I do agree with all you sad here BC u are correct and its been stated multiple times throughout every NRS game life cycle.
I applaud ur ability to be patient in speaking with this klown.
I think this game shows the holes in the community and NRS alike. Something happened? How did we get so outta touch with the community and NRS with us? Think about what happened to the heart of MK and calmly discuss matters of how we can contribute to making fighting games as a whole not just MK better for everyone. Thank you, Tom, for voicing your opinions and likes and dislikes about this game and the community. Very much appreciated.
What it all boils down to is that EVERYONE WANTS THEIR OWN VERSION OF A MK GAME THAT FAVORS AND CATERS TO THEM AND ONLY THEM WITHOUT LEARNING AND ADAPTING!!!!!!THAT'S THE ISSUE!!!!! AS LONG AS THEY "WIN" THEY HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH THE GAME BUT AWWW SHIT IF THEY EVER LOSE WATCH OUT.......
Your MK9 history lesson is interesting but it sort of falls down on its face. Your assertion was its popularity was primarily due to pro player input in the absence of social media. If that is truly the case then one could say mk4 through 8 sucked due to that same input from pro players. This would suggest that pro player input is equally as flawed.
I agree, he's confused about his identity. He identifies with casuals but really he's a low tier competitive player
There are 3 types of players. Casual, Non-Pro and Pro. The casual players are the ones who love the series, buy it and play it for a month and then move on. The Non-Pro players are players who love the franchise, buy it on release and continue to play it regularly for the life of the game. The Pro player is like the Non-Pro except they play the game at the highest level and break down all the elements of the game for the best ways to compete and win at the highest level. MK tries to cater for all 3 but as you have said in this video, the Pro Player is at the bottom of the pecking order.
I think my issue with Kameo's is that all the characters can end up with the same attributes/attack types. I think MK11 had a greater variety with grapplers, all rounders, zoners etc.
They need to Buff the Motaro teleport. I’ll read a projectile fullscreen and by the time I teleport behind my opponent m, they have time to block again!!!
They need to buff Motaro in general lol
If he's gonna come with a health penalty, he needs to actually be fucking great.
And make it possible to teleport from crouch.
His projectile parry should also only be 1 version and walk with the character instead of spending the whole bar for him to walk a bit and disappear after 1.7 seconds
I'm glad they buffed him
We need hector back paulo doodoo
I think JSF had a great idea. Make the kameo reversals, a true reversal. It would be a great "get off me" tool (With the right resource cost).
some of them already work like a reversal (sub-zero br1, frost r1, sareena dr1)
@@MordecaiUniverse but not fully invincible on wake-up, they still get stuffed.
The biggest problem is the get off my yard mentality from some pro players and the this is too hard from casuals that do t want to take time to learn it… shit is hard to get right because both sides don’t want to give each way
Bro when are we getting some buffs for the lower end character and kameos. We need it. I wanna see reptiles running around, and like motaro and Sonya rising.
Why do you even want to play a fighting game if not for a competitive setting? I don’t get it at all.
About the online, it's annoying playing a game when both of us are on LAN and it STILL lags, when mkx still has basically a seamless connection. 🙄
I don't think you're talking about casuals. I think you're talking about scrubs. Casuals won't mind if someone or something is good. The scrubs who want to mash and win but don't have the execution or strategy or calm mind who don't know how to relax and learn from a loss are the ones vocalizing complaints on social media. They now have a platform to get attention by complaining. Often, people who discuss things online never even participate. It's just a topic of conversation. Companies need to learn socializing online is the new activity. It has nothing to do with their products or customers.
You made a lot good points Tom. I remember in the era of MK9 there was no bitchin' youtubers (all knowing experts) about this and that. Games were annoying against Cyrax, Sonya, Kabal, Cage but we exploited every possibilities to make those match-ups less stressful. Occasionally some scrubs made it to TYM, cry about this and that, post got closed and we moved on.
I stopped playing MK9 online once MKX came out, and it was the only game I had over 12K played games. locally the online even wasnt that bad as I remember. Went back and installed in on PC about year and half ago when we couldnt look at MK11 anymore. Jesus Christmas that game was a cluster f#ck.
You have to understand that all the complaining is coming form the "Entitled Generation" aka Gen Z, which are used to get things done easy. Coming from COD or some other games like LOL or God knows what else Mortal Kombat (as easy as it is in the FG games) is still a challenge. At some point without proper lab time there is no way to pass through some stuff, and there is the problem. Lack of patience, instant gratification etc...
Looking back things were much harder. Online content was not as powerful as it is now, and yet it is not enough. As you said "this is annoying" gets things changed. I've seen a lot of new eager to play the game in our local community when the game was on the horizon (those who started with MK11) thinking they will do as good as they did in Mk11, but they didnt. A lot of complaining there. The meter not generating, three sticks or bar for a breaker (oh these kids were furious). The truth is with time they will sell the game at some point sooner rather than later and go back to whatever they were playing before.
MK1 has a lot of issues, seems like a half way though finished product. I personally had the game since day one and I havent played the story mode, tower or anything else yet. I simply dont care for it. Fact is the online is an embracement, and its really like playing two different games. I really hope NRS will patch things up as the time goes by.
MK9 was fun but not balanced. Seems like every attempt NRS has made to balance their games has just made them less fun.
Stop with Fatal Blows and comeback mechanics. And if one character is stupid, make them all stupid. Stop giving 3 characters 100 useful strings with no gaps/plus frames galore/weird things that give unnecessary advantage to an already OP character (“Johnny has an automatic stunt person that helps him in the match if he connects 2 straight shadow kick… just because!”) but give everyone else 2 strings (total!) with caps and 2 specials. This isn’t tier talk. For instance, you give Johnny “Star Power”… then give Scorpion “Flame” or something so he gets covered in flames and does more damage when close. Stop having this major imbalance in your games NRS.
Fate thinks anyone who does a 17 hit B&B is cheating and using hacks.
I'm super casual. I don't have time to practice hardcore because of work and kids. I like MK1 but i don't play as much anymore because every other fights is like pressing a slideshow. Nothing i practice in the lab works in most figures because of input delay.
I hated mk11 because it was easier to start offense by getting knocked down and fighting off the floor.
Fate doesn't speak for me
Great video topic. This discussion definitely needs to happen too much unbalanced salt online atm
Casuals like myself would like to play the game and not have to sweat or spend hours practicing moves etc in order to play. Fighting games don’t necessarily need a huge skill gap (far as knowing every move and the frame rate of the moves) otherwise you’re separating the player base. I didn’t buy MK1 because i knew it’d be all about these long pro level combos ..and that atrocious looking tag team fighting was a complete turnoff.
I feel like there could be a simple fix, we just need two modes. Similar to Fortnite has done with building and no building. All we need is an alternate mode that has limited combo options so that casuals can just go online and beat on each other without having to worry about a highlevel player juggling them for so long. They could have the mode Labeled as "Klassic" it could play like the old school mk games but with the new shiny graphics and whistles. boom done, casuals get a fun brain dead option and high level players can continue as planned.
18:00
I main Shang Tsung/Scorpion and have been going to local tournaments. Man the amount of times I get called a faggot for zoning is unreal.
everytime i fight a shang tsung they just go to the back of the map spamming fire balls they don’t even try to use his other mechanics
@@shadow_5oh601why would they if you keep getting hit by the fireball?
@@shogun0810why would you eat a steak when you can eat frozen pizza ?
I just want the run button back.
To be fair though, literally every MK Fighter has been broken. Right down to the first game.
Run kills neutral aspect of 2d games
My opinion , the word "pro" in gaming terms is silly because most dont make pro money , so it actually is a substitute for the word "better" . So yes the better player should win and mechanics should be geared towards that
Fate guy is delusional period
MK9 is overrated, you giving it as an example of a good game says a lot. It didn't just have its "problems", it was a broken mess so how can it then be a good game? Because you can chip people to death with your plus on block strings as a, lets say, Johnny? You give Fate as an example and say Kabal was his fave in MK9/11. Cool, another player who loved his broken (especially MK9 Kabal) characters lol. MK1 is 10x the game MK9 was, especially in terms of balance. Of course, there's room for improvements.
Yes, games are catering more and more towards casuals and casuals don't really know what they want but I rather have that than have anything close to MK9 if thats what pro players want.
Interesting how no one mentioned X, always thought that was a very worthy sequel to 9
X was all about dumb offense with endless 50/50 and double digit plus frames. No one likes the flipping coin all the time.
And X almost completely remove zoning, neutral and footsies it's all about rushdown
I know of some “casual players” that would mop pro players
Elaborate.
@@shogun0810there are billions of people in this world, there is someone out there or will be, who will mop pro players right now
I agree with the critique of the systems but asking casuals to change thier behaviour is self defeating. They're not engaged, thats what makes them casuals. We should be directing our energy at the devs, encouraging them not to make gameplay changes on behalf of an audience they wont retain regardless. They should honestly know better.
Oh I agree with Socallhoneybadger not every character needs Overheads Highs Mids and Lows but there are and u can tell characters are PURPOSELY lacking and missing strings and Buffs they would normally have to complement this kameo system. Yes I understand meter management also. I have to do it in Street Fighter. Tom I've been playing game since I was 8 years old. I'm no pro but im not ignorant either. I also take Pro's advice. Use it as a template and make it my own. I agree with Fate on scrapping. But I also agree with Pro's. Fundamentals footsy meter management and so on. I get both sides
I’ll say this. There certain plights, for lack of a better word, that certain gamer archetypes won’t understand. Meaning sometimes casuals are right, and sometimes competitive players. Likewise there are times when both archetypes are wrong simply BECAUSE they are that archetype. I can never fully submit the direction of changes in a game to Pros, nor casuals. At a certain point, we ask ourselves do game developers even GAME for real??
Tombrady just shat on that scrub fate in the nicest way, & guess what that fate guy is consistently bad in every fighting game
yo, how do you guys deal with striker grenades after a shadow kick or a slide or tele, i feel like I’m not thinking clearly because I’m so focused on trying to punish a move that so negative Not thinking about the assist after. What do you guys do in those situations? it really bothers me to miss a punish on something like that you know, but it’s not really a punishable because of the assist so am i being too impatient?
Theres nothing you can do, you just have to eat it. If you armor through the grenades are there for protection
@@spacemanju7 i don’t armor every time but like just on instances where the higher grenade won’t hit me, but ok coo im dog shit trying not to be tho… It just seems like striker is always ready to go, but he’s a good assist so…gotta find a way and be better
thanks for replying 🙏🏿
You can also d2 punish and the trade will be in your favor. Of course, that depends on how the opponent times the assist
@@LordHeishin I see what you mean as a way to just get in some damage…def keep this in mind lol
You just gotta hold that shit.
"Fighting games are balance." Yeah, I don't think you should use that word talking about NRS.
As a long time competitive player whos only played MK im about to put the game down if they dont fix this johnny/lao issue. Game is not fun at all both casuals and ranked you fight nothing but johhny lao and gotta sweat your ass off its getting old
I am a casual player. and the best thing i do to is not voice my opinion and don't play. ill watch it online though
Oh I'm with u on buffing characters up to par with other characters also. I hate Nerfs unless something is truly broken. Besides that u should learn the fundamentals basics. Full offensive and defensive options, footsy spacing, data excetra 100% agree with u
And the most annoying insanely stupid bullshit about this:
Those same casuals complaining, then play characters Sub was supposed to counter. In the exact way sub was supposed to be countering them
I'll end the competition vs casual players right here. It needs to be like tekken. Where you can play any character you want and have simple combos for them and play the character in a very simple way. But have a high skill sealing..like Kazuya I can do wgf but the better I get his wgf will turn into ewgf. What then turn into pewgf..you don't need any of those to win it just makes the character grow with you..heck I know some blue ranks that rarely ever use ewgf..they just are defensive and punish more..
this debate is dumb the fact is the casual player pays the bills they are the majority of yalls views in Tournaments. Competitive players give us hype moments but how long have Competitive screamed they are broke and our scene should get bigger... okay then. We NEED EACH OTHER or yall can keep asking the developers to put more money in yalls Tournaments.
Oh yeah because MK got such a huge pro scene jackpot 😂
I’ve been playing MK since the 90s casually on and off for years I played a little bit of MK9 and played abit of MKX which was my favourite one I played a little of MK11 but I didn’t like it but I absolutely love MK1 and I play it everyday in ranked grand master and I’m trying to reach god I’ve never complained if I lose I’m like okay cool I need to improve and I’ve improved so much by just watching the pros and seeing what they do. I play with General Shao/Kung Lao and Raiden/Jax and have so much fun win or lose casuals are the annoying people who can’t handle losing and them crying about it
I’m just so glad the crybabies don’t get their way with Tekken. I used to play alot of FPS games Rainbow Six siege was one of my favorite games but it’s yet another game that was destroyed by crybabies. The devs reduced the damage, the speed, the movement options, removed grenades, removed weapons, etc etc now the game is just a sad pathetic shell of it’s former self.
good stuff that is the problem with a lot of games right now another thing is the cellphone is also ruining a lot of people point of view and opinion
It’s even worse because everything these people complain about has an answer. If you labbed for even five seconds. The 3 major complains i hear are easily solved.
C: Chip is too prevalent!
S: Learn flawless blocking
C: I keep getting trapped in the corner by Johnny and Sub-Zero!
S: You can upblock johnnys overhead launcher and punish. Sun Zero has you cornered? Be patient - don’t press buttons and get ice cloned. Wait for him to make a mistake. THEY ALL PRESS BACK 2 EVENTUALLY.
C: I can’t play the game! It’s never my turn!
S: you’re most likely getting jailed. Into a safe block string. I would recommend going into the lab and finding gaps you can armor or poke through. This way you can disrupt there offense and take your turn back by poking into a grab or going into you own block string. You exploiting that gap with a armored move and rest the neutral.
MK1's real problems are ambush kameos making everything safe, like Stryker. Everything else is a skill issue.
At the same time the game doesn’t incourage people to lab like that, they only advertise the lab for learning combos and set ups
As an aggro subby who also likes Cyrax Mk9 was really good but I didn't like the campiness it allowed. There were just situations where I wanted to do my thing with sub and setup some aggressive openings and I just get camped out and I'm like "welp time to go Cyrac so I can actually play". I'm fine with subby wubby having some bad MUs that I'll cover with another character, but that one gripe I had with mk9 was just that. Getting camped in that game felt like shit.. I don't think of MK as a game to camp someone in, go play call of duty for that lmao
Every person who learns frame data all mechanics and so on are competive. Casuals can’t compete in ranked
I agree and disagree, 18:31 it’s just the new era/the human way to complain in wine because when lose in a fighting game you only can blame yourself, people can’t accept that. Deadshot, Centrion, Grand master sub, zodd etc. I seen plenty of pro players whining on social media as well as casuals.
I don’t think pro players are ruining the casual experience I think the internet is. Even during the mk9 and even MKX era casuals usually stayed squarely in the casual roll. They may have looked uo some TH-cam combo videos but that was about it. Now even casuals are watching streams, watching tournament players watching hour long guide videos with setups etc. So now casuals and randoms online who have no intention of ever sniffing a tournament are able to do combos and setups like tournament players but they don’t have the neutral or defensive skills of those players. In my kind that’s what’s ruining the casual experience . Everybody wants to play the broken stuff as if their playing in a tournament or training for a tournament when their just an online casual . And it’s not just an Mk problem it’s an every fighting game problem .
Most important thing, casuals are only imposters, they just copy pro players meta and give the mental dmg for their selfs because they meet another casual in KL
You can thank Pro players for that, they post every broke and dumb shit they come up with and make guides as if they aren’t eating enough in a day..
i dislike how cosmetics are tied to kombat league, i have to get creative in how to rank up easiest. i can rank up to the third tier without participating in a match, which I appreciate. generally i just take losses to rank up, seems strange, but it works.
I wish you could get those skins by doing other things like “play 250 games in casual” cause I don’t play that toxic KL
Let me be fair. I'll tell u what I don't like about Street fighter and why. I don't want Ken, JP or Luke Nerfed. Instead bring up other characters to par with them. I think the Moden controls are a hand holding system. If players want to play the game. They need to learn the fundamentals, imputs, footsy, spacing, safe and unsafe moves, meter management and so on Not just the combo's but the fundamentals of the game. I agree with Pro players on this. I don't want the game to be easy. I want a challenging game. I'm a Gen X just like u Tom. We didn't have patches back then. U had to get good. Street Fighter is also dipping it's toes in the ESG, Diversity representation, political, Trans bull shit. But besides that. Street Fighter keep the core and foundation of the game. Stuff I was doing in 1991 I can still do today. They still have a One v One system. They added Drive System. No I don't know it that well yet but I'll learn it. Characters have full move kits. Not all of them have Overheads Highs Mids and Lows. They don't need them like Socallhoneybadger explained in his video. In his video. But they have a full move kit. U know what I mean Tom. Even thou I think Moden controls are Bull shit a hand holding system. They still have classic controls. If MK had One V One system and characters we're purposely lacking moves to complement this kameo system. If the imputs we're cleaned up, On line wasn't shit. I can't tell u how much the game freezes when I played in Rank. If they would for example revert Sub Zero give him his classic Ice Ball. Make it where Ice clone u could at least block. After u do it like u explained. I 100% agree with u on your Sub Zero video Tom. This game has the potential. It has the best aspects of MK Deception, MK9 and MK11. I think the combo's are great WITHOUT the kameo system. I don't even think the kameo system would be relevant. If characters had the moves they were purposely lacking to complement this kameo system. Another Example Scorpion Buff his forward 3,2. Fuck make it like Omni Man. He has the same dam move. Buff his teleport like any other MK game and his Hell Fire. Give him a Low starting string. He'd be a complete character Liu Kang is much better then Scorpion. But no Low string. Part of the reason Kung Lao low hat is so popular. Give Liu Kang a low string. He's complete. There characters dont need much at all. They are good characters for the most part. The ones I know and played with add Kitana. It's the Kameo System and lack of moves. That I hate. I know they won't implement a one v one system and they won't give characters moves there purposely lacking because of the philosophy of this MK1 system. So I'm no longer interested in the game. I'd rather go to Street Fighter or Tekken. Yes they have new systems too. I'm going to have to learn get good at. But they have One v One system. I fucking hate assist games. Never have liked them. I bought MK1 because I hope in the future they'll implement a One v One or a Tag system. Theres hope because the leaks says there a fully functional Tag system in the files. If that gets implement. I'd come back to MK but as it stands. I'm simple not interested in an assist game. I'd rather move on. MK not the same Mk game I grew up playing. Oh to make it clear. Keep the Kameo System. For those who like assist games. I'm glad it was implemented. My issue is unlike Street Fighter and Tekken that added new systems also. MK took out the fundamentals core system. One v one system. Tekken and Street Fighter didn't do that. They added and stuck to traditional. This game has the potential. But I don't see it coming to fruition. Its going in a different direction. One im not interested in. That's why I quit. Its just not the game it use to be in my opinion. I still love MK just not this one. I've supported for 30 year. My favorites are Mk MK2 Mk3 Trilogies MK9 MKX MK11. I agree with Both u Fate, Foxy Grandpa, Socallhoneybadger,Ninjakiller and Tweedy. On a lot of things . This games just not for me. Thats the realization I've come too. I can look past issue that could be fixed in the future. I can even look past the other bull shit to a point. But I simple hate assist games. In my opinion it will be the down fall of MK1. They never be able to balance this game. Its a conflict of interest. Kameos vs non kameos. In my opinion. NrS seems to be committed to this Kameo system. So I'd advice them to just go with it. U can't please everyone. Your going to loose player. But thats something they'll have to lean and accept. The game would have been so much better if they had a One v One system. Only thing I can think of is separate balancing and having both One v One system and Kameo system. But thats not going to happen. So just stick with the Kameo System and go with it. The games going to be broke as fuck all assist games are. So just make it fun and accept your looses. Thats the best NRS can do.