How To Install A Torque Arm On An eBike
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ก.ย. 2024
- Here is how to install a torque arm on an E bike. An electric bike wheel generates a lot of torque, so it is smart to put a torque arm on your electric bike to keep the wheel from spinning out of the fork, and to provide some extra stability. This video shows you how to install a torque arm on an electric bicycle.
Here is where to buy a torque arm:
amzn.to/2WfL5G1
Here's a battery and Bike Rack Combo with lots of power:
amzn.to/2ZbPQlH
Here is an electric wheel kit:
amzn.to/2W5uMLJ
Just wanted to share a tip with you. I had originally had thought the same as you, that the torque arm in front of the fork would push against it. It seems intuitive, but it was pointed out to that you also have to take into account the twisting of the torque arm itself. It helps prevent the rotation but the bottom part of the torque arm is pushing up on the top part which puts downward force on the axle, increasing the chance of pushing the axle out of the dropout.
Where as, if you have it on the back of the fork, it does the opposite, the torque causes the bottom piece to pull on the upper piece which pulls the axle up into the dropout, greatly reducing the likelihood of the wheel coming out, especially in the case of a loose nut.
Chances are you'll be ok with it in the front, but the back of the fork is alot more secure. Hope that helped.
are you saying the way he has it will push it out the drop out? he has it backwards right? im building ebike dont want to die please
@@Oldmanlearns718 yes, he put it backwards
That's nonsense.
I think the way he did it is correct. The pivot bolt sits above the axle, so the plate pushed the axle into the dropout.
Put it on the rear and don't die..@@Oldmanlearns718
Clear to the point with no bad music ! Thank you!
You’re welcome
You put it backwards for sure my tire came out using your method
A small issue... Actually big.. You are working on the right front fork. The direction of travel of the wheel will be clockwise. With a sudden acceleration of a clockwise spin, the forces will be pushing against the bicycle at rest... COUNTERCLOCKWISE. So, I would suggest that the bracket be anchor along the left side of the shown fork. It will resist the force going counterclockwise?? You installed the brace along the right (shown in the video) side of the fork, which would resist CLOCKWISE forces best... Sorry ..
Left (behind), right (front)
I had to install it the other way cause my brakes block it.
its maddenin i watch a video..then comments say he did it wrong..lots of upvotes for comments saying wrong, then noone clearing anything up, poster say snothing..just annoying
Great explanation, I put a 1000w wheel on the front of a bike without a torque arm and instantly snapped both dropouts! I now have a new fork and two torque arms on the front and no issues :)
Thanks. A wheel with a lot of power can do a lot of damage.
@@hoohoohoblin I'm getting the QS-205 (16kw max output) and putting it on a fat tire bike with 26" 4.0 wheels. I'm going to make some from 5mm thick metal sheets, just in case lol
Was your fork aluminum? I put a front hub motor on my old steel cruiser bike without knowing this could be a problem and havent had a problem for a month. Im still going to install a torque arm for peace of mind.
Was it an alloy fork and is the new one steel?
@@wecreatezone8940 I can't remember to be honest, the whole thing was destroyed in a shed fire but I think they were both alloy, maybe the second one was more robust.
Thanks… so simple… when you present it so well! Got my front e-wheel on, and solid!
Glad it helped!
Your explanation of the forces and torques was wrong, but you actually put it in the right position. I have checked the factory official pictures, and this is correct.
"because the tire spins one way, the torque action will be the other way"
You sir win the only video with this info award
Thank you thank you
He actually had it backwards so install it opposite
@@Dan-py2kf😢
My front wheel came off of my dual motor ebike while i was riding it two days ago, brand new bike.. now i installing this. Thanka
You’re welcome.
Did you crash
As a welder I recommend basic welding skill. A hose clamp will not work with critical failure. I had a friend who had a 1000w front hub come out and snap that hose clamp like a paper rip. He was hospitalized for 2 months( front forks dug into ground @ 30mph)...can you imagine?
I recommend a steel framed bike as you can weld onto the dropout. Weld 2 coupler nuts on each side of the U. Put the wheel on and then put bolt through as it slides in both nuts on each side. If motor torques it is near impossible for "forks" dropout to bend and/or axle come out. After weld if your sloppy clean up with grinder then put jb weld steel stick putty over welds and morph for a clean look(also seals weld from oxidizing aka rust). Last match the paint. Outcome is industrialized dropout aka motorcycle dropout.
I did this with one of those super 73's except it was not a super 73 just the style. Only difference is....its all STEEL.
Get a MIG FLUX welder they are cheap and very easy to use.
Nice, I wouldnt clip off the ends of the hose clamp because if you ever have to change the tire it will be alot easier to get the hose clamp back on
Thanks
Front wheel motors are a no no on alloy forks, especially on cheaper ones, My forks failed on drop outs after 30mph down hill ride, then both ends snapped at 3 mph, lucky man. Wished I had known about torque arms. Say drop outs fail with arm fitted they should hold, do you think.
Thanks for all the info and comments.
Did your front dropouts break when you were going 30?
At 3 mph
I had to learn about that the hard way
Underrated video love the energy
Thanks
What about the U-shaped washer that comes with the kits, and what if it's too tight to fit on the flat parts of the axle?
Torque arms go on the back of the forks. The motor spins forward pushing torque in a clockwise manner driving the motor into the fork but at the same time you have sideways torsion. Putting the torsion bars on the back of the fork will help push the axle upwards into the fork whereas if you fit the arms on the front of the fork they will try to push the axle downwards. I only have an O level in physics but I'm sure thats correct.
Believe it's the opposite side of placing torque bars. In front will slack off once a short circuit of wire ends being spaced from time happens of an extra kick back or jerking. Having the torques in front will not hold the stress and will warp the motors bolt ends damaging the motor rotation for good. In the rear of the forks. Believe me, it does matter on placement as I've seen forks being ripped apart of bolt ends of having wrong side of forks with torques.
You putting serious stress of rotation on the bolt ends as placing torques in rear of the forks, the energy is absorbed of the forks. Torques in front stresses rotation forward of no base and the bolt ends is where the energy is ending up. You have to place the physics with direction while having a solid base where the rotation s energy can feed into of a balanced friction.
Yo te recomiendo que pongas uno a cada lado del eje. Por que si solo lo pones en un lado el buje del motor acabará partiéndose por dentro por la torsión. Lo digo por experiencia en una rich bit 1000w
What?
If my ebike came with torque washers and I want to install torque arm for additional security, can I leave the torque washers in there as well? Mine has over 1000W power.
I'd toss some red loctite on that bolt
Good idea. Loctite is always good insurance.
Then weld it LOL
If I was a welder I'd put a Spot on it a. Solid tire. NEVER COMES OFF. PERIOD. NO REASON
Hi, good clear video, I've seen these sold as pairs, do you think 2 would help?
I think so. That would be even better than one.
@@hoohoohoblin So my kit arrived and I got two arms. The only issue was I couldn't fit the second one without modifying it as the cable coming from the hub didn't allow it to slide on. The workaround was to open up the bottom end of the axle hole of the torque arm, essentially creating a dropout and allowing the arm to be slid onto the axle. It may well be overkill but it works well and gives an extra sense of safety.
My issue is on the rear chain side of ebike motor where axle is hollow because motor cords coming out of it. Notch washer, small washer and bolt are attached to motor cords. I cant get a torque arm on motor side. If put torque arm on rear disk side will that keep axle from rolling out of place on rear motor side? I heard that the hollow side of axle is weaker than solid side of axle.
I have a question!
Is ONE anti Rotational (Sturmy) washers good enough to secure a 1000w rear hub motor?
Thanks, Have you had any dropouts break with using those torque arms? I've broken three dropouts, two in an aluminum suspension forks and one downhill magnesium fork using a 1000w direct (non-geared) motor using two of what looks like the same torque arms. I've noticed that the inexpensive stamped arms typically have about 0.012" of play on the hubmotor shaft and a lot of play in the torque-arm to shaft arm bolt hole, and when combined with the flex of even a heavy duty hose clamp, even if the torque arm slots are positioned tight to counter the motor shaft torque it still allows enough twist to over-stress the dropouts. I've tapped the tru-hole and used a larger machine screw on the third attempt but that apparently was not enough.
Luckily all three of my failures were starting from a stop using about 400watts (8amps at 48V). the high-end magnesium fork lasted about 100mi and broke under light starting load, and all three fractures appear to involve some element of fatigue.
I modeled cast alloy dropouts and motor shafts in Solidworks, and found that the cast aluminum and magnesium dropouts were at 60% of static structural damage with only 30n/m of torque, but about 20% with solid 6061 aluminum. From those basic numbers I have to question the safety margin on any front fork motor install even with torque arms and wanted to convey my concerns for whatever they are worth and see if you might have any better insights?
Hey, Jack! I’m happy to give you my two cents.
1) this guy is installing his torque arm backwards. It is reacting to the torque, but the arm should be resisted by the clamp rather than the frame.
2) drop outs broke on me when I didn’t file them down. Going from a 10mm QR axle to a 14mm axle with 10mm flats, you have to remove several mm of material before the flats will seat entirely in the dropouts.
3) if using a hub motor, go for rear. The dropouts are stronger there.
4) buy or make a better torque arm(s). Use one on each side. The one you can buy everywhere is Grin Tech’s v1 that was knocked off.
5) Use a strong p-clip instead of a cable clamp. My stack to retain these arms is using 1/4-20; socket head, washer, p-clip face1, arm, p-clip face-2, flange nut. The arm is sandwiched inside the p-clip.
Good luck! RIP your past bikes. My next build will definitely have replaceable rear dropouts 😉
@@finleyoverbey5601 Thanks very much for the in-depth reply, much appreciated! Your points were helpful and I've spent the day studying the cheap torque arm and started designing my own torque arm system in Solidworks that will attach both forward and rear of the fork. If you're interested, I could send you some images of the design if you'd care to critique it, and if I end up having something laser cut and you would want to test it I might be able to send you a sample.
My thoughts in response to your points:
1, as for installing the torque arm backwards, where this guy is using a steel for dropout rather than a cast aluminum or magnesium fork that would likely fracture as my forks have done, rather than spin out, and that on his fork the slotted torque arm retainer actually butts up against the fork, I might've been inclined to install it that way, rather than on the backside where the tort would be pulling against the hose clamp rather than pushing against the fork arm. However, torque arm cut out looks almost as loose as the cheap torque arms I have.
Grin technologies, has a pretty good write-up on installing that version 1 that the Chinese knocked off, and shown in this video that they no longer recommend using. installing the torque arm on the front side is a little stronger as the arm is pushing against the fort, but if the dropouts fail with the torque arm on the front the wheel is leaving. installing the torque arm on the backside, might have a better chance of holding the wheel in place dropout fails, and that's why it seems to me that both a front and rear torque arm would be most secure and have the best chance of holding the wheel in place if they dropout failed.
Also, that keep, knockoff torque arm won't fit on the backside of my front fork, so installing it on the front side with a fork was my only option.
2, my latest, unbroken fork dropouts major about 9.5 mm so I only had to remove about 0.5mm to get the dropout to slide into place. I've got a pretty good fit, that's all the way in, but the last aluminum pork that broke almost instantly might not of been fully seated.
3, I've built several over-volted 1500 W rear hub motor ebike conversions on quality hardtail steel frames and had no issues even without a torque arm. I would not recommend a front drive conversion as a dropout, or fork failure could mean serious injury. Even something like a magnet coming loose inside a front hub motor could spell disaster.
I wanted to try a front drive motor on a full suspension frame that broke the dropouts in order to drive the front wheel along with the rear pedal drive foursome light trail riding. I've also got a single wheel Yakima that requires the quick release or the hitch adapter. It would be a pain to install with a rear hub motor.
4, I looked at all the Grin torque arms, from v1 to V4. V3 looks pretty good but it wouldn't fit on the back of my fork, that's why I'm designing a front and rear torque arm adapter.
5, I like your solution using P-clips. I looked briefly for a P-Clip large enough to go around my forks but couldn't find anything large enough. I have messed with larger Aircraft stye P-Clips on aircraft so I might look to see if what's available in AN hardware, although one aircraft grade P-Clip B $30-$100
I've actually broke the three forts on one frame so haven't had to RIP the frame yet. I'm lucky enough to have a local shop that does a lot of work upgrades and sells take-off forks cheap. I might buy a few to bench test my torque arm system.
I just got a used heavy duty Marzocchi magnesium fork that's pretty strong and rides and handles great! installed the hub motor in it, using the cheap torque arms after I reworked them and used nickel shim-stock and pre-loaded them to in tension, and even after a pretty heavy test with power and regen the motor axel is still in load against the torque arms rather than the dropouts but it was only a learning study test until I have something like my dual Torque-arm set-up to test.
Here's a couple of videos showing how loose these cheap stamped T-arms are. They are are so loose, that unless you pre-load them they would prevent the motor shaft from torquing against the dropouts. laser cutting rather than stamping would provide a much more accurate and tighter fit, and you could cut them out of something strong and hard like 304 Stainless 4130 chrome molly steel or 7071 or 6061 aircraft aluminum.
Cheap and loose hub motor torque arm #2
th-cam.com/video/7CQC_u8fATk/w-d-xo.html
Cheap and loose, hub motor torque arm (Ineffective and dangerous)
th-cam.com/users/shortsi06tUYa2-eI
Thanks again, you can contact me through my about page on YT if you want to chat further
I have a duel motor philodo h8 2000w and after i replace a flat tire on rear wheel it never stay on when go fast. The rear wheel keep coming loose and i use the same torque arm that you have.
Any idea.
what about the other side were the wire comes out of the motor arm is too small to fit over wire? please help in need to but both sides
I've got a front hub motor too, and I'm confused. Some people are posting videos saying to put it in front of the fork and some are in back of the fork
I think I’m right, but a lot of people disagree with me. I put it in front, because the twisting force on the axle is going to push the lever towards the fork, so having it in front of the fork is better than having it behind the fork, where the Clamp could break loose.
What converter kit would you recommend for an ebike for high speeds?
Ez direct drive. 1500
Ohhh! finger cutting edges on the hose clamp. :)
If I can only put it upside down will it still be effective?
One side is completely blocked off. And I only have one area I can do upside down. It's a bigger bike engaged around metal. Only opening is upside down on one side
how is this the right side of the front wheel, where the cable is supposed to come out?
Will this help fix the problem of the motor cable winding up on me
What type of pliers did you use to cut ring hose?
pretty sure you did this backwards... how is the force counterclockwise when the wheel spins clockwise!?!?!?
The wheel is turning clockwise, which means the axle is trying to turn counterclockwise.
If you were to hold the wheel while it's running, (as a thought experiment, obviously to really do this could be a hazard and also twist apart the power cable) the axle would spin in the opposite direction. There has to be an opposing force for there to be motion.
@@hoohoohoblin Thank you for this...your method works fine.
Torque Arm is needed thing in every case! even if you have 250watts only!
The wheel spins in a clockwise motion, therefore the torque will be clockwise. How is everyone saying it would be a counter clockwise motion? The wheel would spin off the fork going forward, not backward. This would also break the wires.
I have no idea what makes you think that the torque will be backwards of the direction of the wheel. I think you put it on wrong & that in your picture it should be behind a fork.
Now I see God!
Thank you!!!
You’re welcome
How thick is the torque arm ? I was told to get 1/4 inch thick.
Thank you
You’re welcome.
I am disabled and can't put this ebike conversion kit together trying to get some help thanks
Have anybody had there wheel flys off after installing the torque arms.
Probaby bit off a late reply but how's that hub holding bout to buy one my self
It died after a couple of years.
SO SHWEEEETTT...much love Tee with LIONS NAMED LEO.[the music worldwide}
and yep...gotta make sure the wheel can not come off..that would be very bad at 25 ish mph...plus...
Why are your cables on the left in this video?
Does this work for V brake tires as well as Disc brake tires?
Yes. You’d have to put it on the side that doesn’t have the break if you are using them with a disc break.
My question, WHY dont you have one on each side?
Is it better to have two of these one on each side or is that overkill ?
I think it’s a good idea. You definitely want to be safe.
thanks.
You’re welcome
I have this problem for the rear actually.
I went to Home Depot and got some heavy duty lock washers. Do you think lock washers will be strong enough to resist the torque?
I don’t know. That would probably help, but the torque arm is designed to resist the twisting action.
Thanks so much for the reply. I have a 3000 watt hub motor on a mountain bike and the torque arm that it came with was so unusual. It was built of solid stainless steel on both sides and in the middle was cheap die cast metal in between.
That axle would go between it. So I was riding and over a period if time, it got bent out of shape.
The stainless steel of course is still in tact. I don't know why the thing wasn't designed entirely of stainless steel to begin with.
Anyway after it broke, I went to Home Depot, got some heavy duty lock washers. They are about 1.5 inches in diameter.
Was using them for while. They held up pretty well until when I tried going for a ride one day last week. The back wheel got loose. I wasn't even out for 8 minutes. I went right back home. I'll just get a universal torque arm tomorrow. They have some really inexpensive ones on eBay.........less than 10 dollars with free shipping.
I also meant to add that I had bought 2 heavy duty ordinary washers in addition to the lock washers. Fastened them on both sides. But yeah, that is a tremendous amount of power for an ebike motor. The tension from using lock washers with the ordinary washers is very strong but will still succumb to the torque force from the motor
@@hoohoohoblin
I also meant to add that I had bought 2 heavy duty ordinary washers in addition to the lock washers. Fastened them on both sides. But yeah, that is a tremendous amount of power for an ebike motor. The tension from using lock washers with the ordinary washers is very strong but will still succumb to the torque force from the motor.
I ordered a torque arm so I'm just waiting for it to come in the mail
I ordered a torque arm from eBay. I had to wait approximately 3 and a half weeks for it. It came from China and the rings are unfortunately too small 😒
How to you put the arm on the axle on the other side?,Theres a wire coming out the axle and the plug head on the control box end is too big to fit through the hole
Did you find a solution?
Try to de-pin the wires out of the plastic plug, feed them through all the washers, torque arm, nut then re-pin the plug with the wires. Those plugs can be de-pinned by slightly bending the thin metal holding the pin in the plug. Look at how the pins are held in the plug.
4 is enough right?
2 is enough
backside boss....it will still work...😁
What about the side with the wire? Do you only need one side?
Depends how powerful the motor is, below 1000watt, 1 torque arm should be enough.
How do you put them on the side with wire im scared to mess with it
@@lozzadcleatz8251 cut the bottom out of the axle hole with a hack saw, this opens up one end , then slide it on to the axle. just like the dropouts already on your bike.
@@paulmervyn1613 ah that makes sense thanks alot
On the Voilamart, you can just de-pin the 5 wire plug and feed the wires through the torque arm and then re-pin the plug.
You’re installing this backwards. The arm is reacting against your frame instead of the clamp. The arm should be reacting against the clamp.
I made a video about the same thing. Believe me, I will never put a torque arm on the front of the fork again.
Thank you for the great video! Could i use double or is that overkill and one is enough ?"
I think one is enough. I guess you’ll be double sure if you put two on.
Overkill but not hurt anything either :)
Now we know why front hubs are usually 350w geared. To the store and back
its on backwards
Where's the C ring?
u dont have to use it ,its optional if the bolt is in the way,its just a spacer
Shit, I should have known that yesterday, because this morning I went to work with my DIY front drive ebike and the fork dropout simply snapped and I fell on my face at 20 mph
Ouch!
WHY DON'T E-BIKE DEALERS TELL THERE CUSTOMS ABOUT eBike torque arm AND THAT THEY NEED TO INSTALL THEM?
"heavy duty fork" all those rigid forks Will take less to be destroyed just wacth sam pilgrim on the free bike test he smash rigid steel fork with ease with mtb intense jumps so with weight and torque aplied at the fork you better treat it gently just normal use for use and always better a rear wheel motor
I agree. If I had to do it again I would definitely put the motor in the back.
This is backward
How?
The torque arm goes towards the back of the bike. I bent my fork doing it the way on this video. Search yt for ebikeling torque arm for correct instructions.
@@justintrant5421 Thanks, I get it now
👍😎👍
I installed the torque arm on the front like in this video, and as I drove, I noticed the torque arm twisting towards the rear in the direction of the fork... I guess the torque arm was supposed to be making contact with the forks to start with? I was under the assumption that it was the hose clamp that would prevent rotation but your intention was for the fork to prevent rotation? I wish I had understood this in the beginning, now I have to buy a new fork for my 30 year old bike. To those who say it's backwards, I think it's supposed to be in front like in the video, but the torque arm needs to be making contact with the fork. That's the key.
Yes. That’s correct. It has to be pressing against the fork so it can’t move at all.
why not show your whole bike..like hwat is wrong with you...im dum, what side of bike is that and front..what does whole bike look like..what would helped instant super quick camera movements at beginting..learn how to film! 137K subs, you sould know how to put out a quality video and then bunch of people say u explained it wrong, or maybe did it wrong..why leave up video then
Critical step in installation was to ensure the plate was rotated clockwise in order to take up the play in the slot.
The way you have installed that provides no additional support.
No, the axle would spin the the opposite direction of the motor, so he installed it perfectly fine, even if he had installed it on the bottom part of the frame it would have held perfectly as the metal "zip" thing would keep it sticked to the frame but he installed in on the right size
@@gursisingh1940 You aren't visualizing the problem correctly. We both agree the axle with rotate in the opposite direction. The use of the torque arm and how it's attached is irrelevant if you don't take up the play in the slot by rotating with wheel direction. This means that the axle will be hard against the opposite edge, meaning no movement in the axle direction. If this is not done, you are essentially not reinforcing the drop outs as the play in the slot means all force is still on drop out but squashed between two extra washers. If you need a diagram I can sketch one up but it's a essential step when installing anything: Is there play? Should there be? Solve
@@Geski0 hello friend, you sound theoretically knowledgeable about this subject. I would like to take advice from you for my ebike build. I bought a £100 Argos bike and installed a 1000w front hub wheel with the normal torque washer that came with it. I had tightened the nuts well, but still after 2 miles of smooth running, the axle twisted in the dropout, pulling in the cable and the whole thing jammed up, luckily the motor cables are not completely damaged. It also looks like the dropouts have widened a little bit and the axle has a 2mm play.
I was being a little impatient to wait for the pair of torque arms to arrive from eBay, even though I had read about this known issue, I underestimated the power of such a motor especially on a cheap bike.
Now having said this, I am not giving up already and want to have the best solution that is durable. I want to install 2 torque arms on both sides, one to prevent the counterclockwise action during starting off and the other one to prevent the clockwise action due to inertia while braking. Am I visualizing correct or do you think it would be a bad idea? Does the C washers play an important role while installing the torque arms? Can you suggest the best configuration for my setup please.
That is a normal bike turned into a home ebike. A retail ebike is much more durable and I was already told unless you put 2000 watts or more that those are not needed on say a real ebike if you add a motor or upgrade one to 2000 or under.I have a 5 year old mountainbike and it would need this--but my new ebike has much thicker parts.
i think thats backward bro.
yh im sure the pressure needs to be behind the fork
no , the torque is rotating backwards , opposite to the wheel rotation , this way he has the frame itself stopping the backwards rotation of the spindle , rather than just the strength of the hoseclip , if you can do it like this its the optimum way to do it , but not always possible
Wrong improper installation of torque arm, very dangerous do not follow this guys advice he has no idea what he is doing.
I don’t know. Some people say I’m wrong and some people say I’m right. We’ve been running this bike for years, and my son rode it to school for a couple years, and it still works fine. I think as long as you stop the twisting force with the torque on, you’re OK.
This link shows the correct way to install th-cam.com/video/eT_M2v_bFcE/w-d-xo.html
Not really, that video also shows it with the torque arm on the front of the fork which is the wrong way. It's supposed to be on the back of the fork, so the rotational force isn't pushing down on the axle which is bad especially with a loose nut. The axle could be pushed out of the dropout. With the torque arm on the back, the twisting force is pulling the the axle up while also resisting the axle twist.
Don't work, I got one on both sides of my fork on a etrike I was trying to build and it does not work. biggest waste of money in the biggest bullshit lie there is these front hub motors do not work at all
Uh, then my bike must run on magic. Wtf?