Thats not new :) The way we approach this is getting more extreme (again) If you are not with me, than you are against me If you are against me, than you are a bad person If you are a bad person you are probably: - a liar - someone not worth to trust - someone who wants to harm me If you are a liar not worth to trust who wants to harm me, you are guilty and therefore my enemy. You can find this pattern of thinking all over the place - those people are close to be fanatics. Good luck sitting down with a fanatic finding a solution / compromise for what ever you try to discuss.
"You're a bigot if you don't give rich corporations your limited income to see their terrible preachy films". It's not the worst advertising technique of all time...but it's definitely up there.
It shows the poor judgement of marketing agencies - the political left have historically been vehermently anti-capitalist and anti-globalization, so demanding people consume the products of global entertainment mega-corps in order to indicate their political leanings to their peers was never going to be widely successful. The only folks they've managed to sway are naive narcissistic social media addicts who are greatly overrepresented in online spaces and have comparatively little spending power compared as a proportion of the movie-watching population.
Most will have no problem if these woke creators make a new character or new IP for their diverse characters. What fans are tired of is the constant "Fan Baiting" and they just changing established lore, characters and franchises as a whole to their own fringe belief system.
That's the issue, media you or might enjoy offends them so severely it eats away at them like some sort of demonic entity, so they must co-opt every facet of fictional media to purify it of these harmful elements to their person
All you have to do is read every title with an addendum. "Moon Knight['s Female Counterpart]" or "[Some Mean Brown Lady Who Exists in the Same Universe as] Kenobi"
I'm gay and i don't tend to gravitate towards gay characters because they feel like stereotypes and just straight up tokens. I hate how todays entertainment is all about Representation and not Good story telling.
Excuse me fuzzy cat. Can you see the irony that a lot of these modern writers claiming to be progressive and yet their gay stereotypes consist of outdated jokes as far back as the 2000's? A quick glance at the Q Force trailer shows just the big out of touch bubble they live in. Can't they realize that gay men can be masculine and lesbians feminine too? No, they draw on the old 2000's parodies of gayness despite the new resources they got now
I understand that these Hollywood types have strong political beliefs. That is their right...to hold their beliefs. What pisses me off is that they don't concede that I also have the right to hold beliefs that are different than theirs. And I have no plans to buy what they are selling.
I don't think they even feel strongly about those beliefs. Some of them might have been bullied when they were younger, and they're using social radicalism as revenge. Some of them might feel guilt about Hollywood's insensitivity and resistance to change in the past, and want to reform the system to ease their own consciences. They strike me as insecure people.
What’s funny is that whatever audience they think or believed would show up. Didn’t. I’m gay and Bros looked like something that has been done in gay rom coms since the 90’s. Using the same stereotype troupes and telling the same story over again. Truth is that, the supposed audience they’re catering too don’t support or enjoy anything, but would rather rant and complain on social media and then move on to another thing to complain about.
I tried explaining all of this to one woke coworker who tried hard to defend all of these adaptations, Rings Of Power in particular. Her only response to all my points was a cold, definitely not scripted “You’re choosing your own nostalgia over peoples right to exist, and that’s disgusting.”
Why are you even discussing these things with her? It's only one argument away from a HR complaint. I wouldn't even talk about anything outside of necessary work assignments with her.
@@StrongandGrand This is unfortunately extremely true. The times we live in warrant the separation of work and play. Gone are the days of the friendly office debate.
People didn’t take offense to Frosk demanding that viewers account & atone for their actions & attitudes; they took offense to her slandering them with false accusations.
You can have characters that are gay, bi, any demographic you please. Comics have long been a space for all forms of people. However, lecturing storytelling that is unbalanced, lacking in overall story, dialogue etc. Consumers simply don't want this crap. Start Trek TOS had the first interracial kiss ever on tv and weren't shy about it. DS9 had Jadzia Dax, who had memories of being several people, including friends who remembered Dax as a man and still accepted her without much question, a kiss between two women in the form of a lover from the life another of the hosts to hold her symbiote. Marvel introduced Luke Cage AKA Power Man, and Shang Chi, Black and Chinese Heroes respectively. Hell, more recently Voltron Legendary Defender had the leader of the Voltron force Shiro be gay and Shiro was epic (yes the last season was ugh but the series was for the most part awesome)! Entertainment being inclusive is Not New, no matter how these hacks try to act like they are first in doing this stuff. You know why they want to ignore what has come before? They can't understand or perhaps stand that earlier works succeeded. Those earlier works educated without lecturing, they presented thought provoking and sometimes uncomfortable topics for their time WITHOUT beating the audience over the head, and with far more balanced writing, subtly, skill and it did not overtly or passive aggressively aim rage etc. at the audience. It drives me insane. In terms of media, Woke is the tent occupied for angry, untalented hacks who, if judged on the true merit of their ability to tell compelling stories as opposed to checkmarks, couldn't hack it. Their kind of storytelling needs to, right along with the insane practice of fan baiting, fade to nothingness and never return.
"Their kind of storytelling needs to, right along with the insane practice of fan baiting, fade to nothingness and never return." I think it will, in time, and it won't be long now, for the reasons you spell out here. They're already seeing diminishing returns, people (whom we nerds call "normies") who ordinarily don't look too deeply into these things, are themselves starting to see through the cracks; they're noticing how crap everything is getting. They sometimes don't even know _why,_ they just know that they don't like something anymore and just stop watching it. In future decades, people will still be watching OG _Star Trek, Doctor Who, Star Wars_ and similar; the stuff that provokes thought, engenders intelligent discussion or is just plain _fun_ without the disparaging overtones, while the junk to come post-2009 (all-flash-no-substance and ideological grandstanding) will be relegated to bargain bins and free download sites, ignored for the garbage that it is. I'm supporting independent creators as much as I can. Some are expensive, but these are people mostly working out of their garages and don't have mulitbillion-dollar corporations to prop up their insipid tripe that doesn't sell. Don't let 'em kid ya, the Big Guns are feeling the pinch and it infuriates (and confuses) them that somebody with a homemade comic book or self-published novel can outsell a flagship title that's been around for decades. Support independents in this, the new _Iron Age of Storytelling,_ and we can have good, quality stories again. Okay, I rambled more than I expected to. 😁
Art is all about subtlety. The allure that draws you back again and again. Modern entertainment is not art it is only messaging and propaganda (for the most part).
Good video. Informative non-bias take which is rare. Movie critics and viewer reviews have not match on like 80% of movies. And movies are a form of escape from the real world, so if you bring political views that are already shoved in our faces with social outlets it turn people away.
@@Mysticuffs Conservatism is generally intermingled with religion. If you believe in free markets, but you're also an atheist, then you probably fall into another political alignment, such as libertarianism or objectivism.
I would've always held myself to be a libertarian, however "equality", doesn't mean supremacy, and I find myself oddly drawn to more conservative perspectives simply because I do not appreciate bias or castigation of anyone, including straight white men. Also, being both a straight white man myself, and! a member of a minority (visually impared people), not held to be one of the sacred woke characteristics, the message rings extremely hollow. After all, from my perspective, anyone with working eyeballs have "privilege", and I'm pretty sure if I were to start to castigate everybody for their "blindophobia", or their "unconscious sighted bias", I would not be a particularly nice person, even though yes, having a visual imparement isn't exactly fun. I actually suspect I'm not alone, however when a political movement is calling anyone and everyone who disagrees with the tennits of that movement an enemy irrispective of their actual views, I suppose that is what they will end up being. Indeed, I suspect like myself far more actual liberals and believers in equality have more in common with moderate conservatives, than with ultra wokesters. Plus of course, the idea that any "liberal", should be propping up global business, and protecting the interests of fortune 500 companies against individuals, as we increasingly see with so called "liberal", media outlets is just plane craaaaaaazy!
@@EchoChamberlain Thanks, enjoy the videos. Ironically, I finished a Phd in ethics in 2019, part of the principle argument of which was that focusing on the intrinsic "differentness", of disabled people, and "disabled experience", is ultimately unproductive, yet, increasingly I see those people most concerned with rescuing the world from "racism", "sexism", or "homophobia", to be so radically bent on promoting people according to race, gender, or sexual preference, that the hole thing seems to be eating it's own tale right now; especially as I said, when viewed from the perspective of a none privileged minority. I'm actually very much hoping wokeness will burn itself out before I do, since publication of anything, academic, or still worse fictional is pretty impossible right now due to the biases in the publishing industry which you yourself mentioned previously. Not that I have any desire to write characters "like me", either, indeed thus far, most of my characters have run the gammet of gender age, and even species. which is exactly why I find myself gravitating to anti woke content, since it is at least a way to clarrify some frustrations with the current era, as well as take comfort in the fact that most people are not either radical social justice warriors or the dreaded right wing extremists.
@@marasmorgean5813 Interestingly enough, recently saw a video by a lady called patience Xina who noted that the term "conservative", meant to preserve elements of the past, and where previously (and indeed sterreotypically), the "consservative", meant some sort of 1950's, neuclear family perspective, these days, a lot of younger people are considering themselves "conservative", since the time they wish to hark back to is actually just the naughties and early twenty teens, and that what is now ubiquitously called "the left!", is actually growing far more restrictive in terms of matters such as sensorship and even segrigation. I do remember myself, that the first time I heard the term "lgbt" (there was no q at that point), was when I looked up the series torchwood in 2009, and it was listed as having "lgbt themes." I remember being quite surprised, I'd really enjoyed torchwood, and yeah, about half the characters were gay or bisexual, but I never saw it as having anything so pretentious or ongoing as : "themes!", mostly I just considered it a cool doctor who spinoff about people who fought aliens in Cardiff :D.
@@darktenor4967 It doesn't surprise me in the least that young conservatives want to wind the clock back to the noughties. Just before that period there was a transatlantic shift in economic policies that saw the left fully embrace free market capitalism. The plan was to encourage bonus culture in financial industry, increasing tax revenue, and in turn increasing public spending. It was thought to be the best of both worlds - aspirational mega-wealth AND social responsibility - until everyone realized it also encouraged structured tax evasion programmes, speculative risk taking on previously unimaginable levels, and actively drove inequality through the roof, eventually culminating in the 2008 crash and the admission by Alan Greenspan that the vision of free market capitalism he had spent 60 years advocating at the highest levels of governments around the globe was fundamentally broken. Who wouldn't want to go back to a time before the illusions of political and economic perfection were shattered? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
@@darktenor4967 Thats the point!!! Torchwood wasn't "designed" to be as diverse as possible, they had gay couples in it (what was completly fine for me), but it wasn't all about gay couples - if you read what torchwood is about, and watch the tv show, you can say: yes! they promised, they delivered... Nowadays it completly shifted - MCU was once known for bad-ass-cgi-overload-action movies with heros doing their usual stuff. They still promote them like 10/15 years ago but if you watch them - its not about heros doing their stuff...its about agenda-politics 24/7.
There are 35 Million gay people over the age of 16 (old enough to go see an R-Rated movie). If he captured 30% of that audience he would've had one of the biggest hits of the year. Gay people didn't show up for Eichner's Bros. Why would straight people have to go to a movie that gay people didn't support it. It made like 11 Million dollars or something like that. That's the real weird thing. They didn't make a gay romance for gay people to watch. They made a gay romance that alienated both gay audiences who thought it wasn't gay enough, and straight audiences who didn't care to see it.
Well... superman has always been kinda close to conservative valued due to his upbringing with mama and papa Kent who i am sure, went to Church every sunday and took Clarck with them.
I have enjoyed queer films at art house theatres, but my understanding was that _Bros_ just wasn't very good. I read Marvel comics for years and they were often political, but my understanding is that the recent stories just aren't very good. I like reboots and adaptations when they're good. These days, most of them aren't. I like "blind casting" unless it would violate the established rules of the story or be a distraction -- I was annoyed by The Witcher being moved from Poland to Britain but not by the "diverse" cast. Unfortunately, too often the story is deliberately altered for "representation" and the story suffers for it. The stories need to be good.
Identity politics or woke-ism has got me into sports. I make it a sport to not spend money on entertainment and/or physical goods that has woke attached to it, be it with their 'the message' via advertising or contaminating the entertainment with contrived politics/activism. Because of this I haven't been in a cinema since 2017, cancelled most streaming services and skip certain brands/games. It saved me a lot of money and aggravation. Together with not watching television nor listening to commercial radio (for over 15 years now), you fairly stay objective, because it's nearly impossible to be influenced that way. I recommend this to anyone.
To be clear, movies was always with politic/social messages (and it's fine, we are human being with morals and beliefs and want to share that). BUT they were smart enough to made their "message" subtle and put the STORY FIRST. So you can enjoy the movie (or the tv show, the book, you name it) in the first level and then go deeper and, possibly, enjoy the message. The problem now is you have the message first, slammed in your face, in a crude way, no sophistication, not smart thinking, not intellectual game with the viewer. It's like a fast food chain: here the meal, eat it, chew a little, swallow immediately, fill your stomach. And if you think about it it make sense, the writers are the product of the suburbs wasteland. And, btw, these people think we are still stucked in the 50s, when media was really a white heaven.
I'm a straight white guy, not that it matters. I like racial diversity, have no issue with folks in same sex relationships. I also like other silly little things like, entertainment and escapism. Aren't these things compatible, did I miss something.
Lesson #1 : Going to war with your own customers is suicide for a business. Lesson #2 : People want good stories that are well told, and woke credentials are no substitute for talent and creativity. Lesson #3 : The free market is the ultimate democracy, and will always win in the end.
And the thing is, they DID know this in the past. Particularly lesson #1. I'm no "the customer is always right" person (I've worked too long in retail and customer service to believe THAT schlock) but even when they're wrong, you don't go to war with them, particularly if you want to keep them as customers, and when they're right, you sure as hell didn't try to convince them they're wrong. I don't know when this started. Could have been 2014-ish, when suddenly, and completely spontaneously, I'm sure, gaming publications all released articles attacking gamers with titles like "Gamers don't have to be your audience, gamers are over" and "we're witnessing the death of the gamer identity". It continued on, around 2016, with Ghost "you're misogynistic if you don't watch this movie" Busters. Same with Star Wars with all it's character assassinations. Suddenly, if you objected to what amounted to a clown coming into your house, dressing up in your dead father's clothes and dancing around going "look at me, I'm your dad!" You were just an asshole who hated _________. (Thanks to Rich from RLM for that analogy.) Ok, that was a bit hyperbolic, but my point stands. If you objected to the crap they were pushing out bearing the name of franchises you loved, well, you just weren't a fan. It's disgusting.
I don't even buy comics, but if superman or his son moved back to Kansas and became a Baptist / non-denominational / evangelical Christian and found solace in God, I would buy every issue. Christian superman is best superman.
Some of my stories have gay men. The focus on their love has nothing to do with them being men. It’s on the love that’s found between two people who feel othered from the world and it’s experience. I just want to tell love stories in different avenues and I feel like identity politics ruin it, making it seem like I’m pandering.
At this point, they’ll never learn. And I’ve come to a point in life where I’m actively rooting them to off themselves because of their refusal to learn from their mistakes. I don’t want to watch a movie/tv show or read a book or play a video game that has way too much real world baggage. I get way too much of that just by going to work or even walking down the street. That being said, I don’t mind seeing some LGBT characters here and there in works of fiction. A video game like Fallout: New Vegas has handled this extremely well in my opinion. Cases and points, Arcade Gannon and Veronica Santangelo. Arcade is bisexual whereas Veronica is a lesbian. However there is no scene of either of them kissing someone of the same gender. Instead they say something like, “I care about this person a lot” and that’s basically it. Their orientation does not inhibit their other abilities such as physical and intellectual powers. To put it simply, if you want to make a gay character, go ahead make them gay. Just please put more qualities than that. Like make them smart. Or make them strong. We don’t need to see them kissing or fucking someone of the same gender every single scene they’re in.
Are they learning? I don't think so... They will keep doing the same thing over and over again expecting different outcome... Until they completely ruin their studios...
To be fair, there is a fringe market for gay MMC comic books in Japan. The mistake was these corporations thinking they could force it to go mainstream.
Never needed characters to be my race or gender to understand and love them as a character. I’m not white, but I love and feel for Steve throughout his appearance in the MCU. I’m not a woman but I love Gamora and her tragic arc from when she found love to when she unfortunately died (Original Gamora, not that time travel b.s)
yes, thank you. There is no genuinely liberal space out there where people are left/liberal/progressive, but distance themselves from the craziness. I feel you.
They are getting "passive income" from ESG investors, this is why they are giving fans and potential viewers the finger. Wait until the ESG bubble burst and these grifters will be begging us to come back.
A message to Hollywood: If you want to drive audiences back and turn a profit on your products, stop with all of these identity politic nonsense. Audiences want to be entertained, not be involved in politics.
They're so rich they don't seem to care they're losing millions. I mean Disney lost *billions* on star wars, and they both *still* have Kennedy on the payroll *and still* are letting her make movies
I like to say thank BlackRock for the drop of quality of stories and focusing ONLY on identity politics, when identity should not be such a heavy focus but a complimentary added trait to a charcter to a quality story. Now stories are being told for the sake of telling, or they are destroying the money hoarders in Hollywood by producing content that their own allies "want". They want to be seen as equals not better than others, these movies are doing the exact opposite. If the companies were not so money hungry they would not have listen to Black Rock who says which company people should or should not invest in, for all we know its complex business deals and keeping the comapny afloat on absolute trash movies and series.
I understand your complaint at the start of this piece, but as someone who once considered myself on the "liberal left" but no longer, the question is whether "checking the excesses" is meaningful, or whether the entire philosophy is fundamentally wrong and rotten, a conclusion I reached after a gradual falling away starting in the 90s with feminism, since I found myself with the problem that it said things about men which I knew not to be true, and without those things the whole philosophy fell apart. It comes down to whether one merely attempts to check the excesses of Nazism, or Communism, or Christian or Islamic Fundamentalism, etc, or discard them as inherently without value. This turning away has the trite "red pill" label these days, but there is a moment with any extreme philosophy which one has adhered to when suddenly the edifice of justification all collapses and is revealed before one's eyes for what it is. You can still believe in the things you used to think it stood for- equality, or gay rights, or whatnot- without the philosophy itself at all, just as one can desire peace on Earth without being a Christian. The only way forwards is not to swap one ideology for another, or attempt to moderate their excesses, but to just dump the lot of them. You don't have to be in one gang or another. That's my humble opinion anyway.
To answer your question. No. Hollywood is not learning. Despite plummeting stock prices, lower sales, and even the cancelation of projects or the shutting down of whole studios like G4tv. They refuse to learn.
I can hear the rebuttal of people who don't agree with this channel now. "How much more 'traditional' entertainment do you people need? You already have centuries of children's literature and several decades of classic Disney films. You already have plenty of 'wholesome' and patriotic propaganda. You even imposed censorship on Hollywood and other entertainments so that you would always get exactly what you wanted." I think these critics miss several points, such as that even tradition belongs to the future and can always be continued in innovative ways, and that today's "movement" conservatism differs a great deal from the somewhat superficial conservatism of 100 years ago. I also think these "identitarians" don't understand that most people do not despise left-wing entertainment; they despise left-wing entertainment only when they feel left out of it. Too many heterosexual and/or Christian white men feel that they have no choice but to be conservative because the left seems to reject them. I wish to God we could return to the pre-1968 left, which both welcomed minorities and offered a place for "average" Americans.
Im gay and liberal but I prefer my entertainment leave out real world baggage, if I wanted that I wouldnt need to watch I could just watch tik tok and twitter.
"Certain parts of the country." What a cheeky bugger. Just say it plainly: The poor parts. You hear that South and Midwest USA? Billy thinks you're too poor to be as moral as he is. He says he was entitled to your eyeballs on the basis of his movie's subject matter alone. How could you all live with yourselves for disappointing him?
You can't simultaneously make a very niche film and then bitch about it when the film inevitably isn't a massive box office success. Bros wasn't even on my radar.
Hate to be that guy, but I'm fairly certain if an article had "gay people aren't entirely to blame" in its title, it would most likely be hit with a large wave of outrage from particular Twitter users. But it's fine. It's just straight people. Who cares.
idk-. I don't think it's identity politics. I think it's just cringe people being cringe. it's not exclusive to one side or ideology. like asmongold said people will buy/excuse anything as long as the product is good on some level. fact of the matter is the products themselves aren't good. Simple as.
Here's the problem with being a liberal type who just wants everyone to get along: someone who just wants to be left alone will always lose to someone who wants to win. For whatever reason, the universe hasn't seen fit to grant us the right to lay back and do our thing without worrying about the people around us. We do have to worry. We do need values. We need to pass judgment on what's good and what isn't. And pretty often, we need to act on that judgment, even when it isn't "nice". Personally, I have my concerns about traditional religion, BUT... their vision is sound, it is at least somewhat compatible with human reality, and it provides hope for a future. Compared to the sterile self-destructive insanity of wokism, my problems with religious people are minor quibbles. I am done trying to walk the "let's be reasonable" line (and I'm not alone, apparently). There's no reason in woke causes. They are promoting things that are tolerable at best, and shouldn't be the chosen goal of anyone who cares about mankind's future, or their own future for that matter.
I am a straight male, married to a wonderful woman going on 27 years, and just because I do not like to watch homosexual content that doesn't makes me homophobic. I may have had problems with the LGBTQI+ community in the past because of how I was raised (indoctrinated as a christian) but now that I am an atheist I've shed most of my biases and bigotry.
Does racism, sexism and homophobia exist? Yeah they do. Is representation important? Absolutely. Are climate issues important? Undoubtedly. But none of these things are going to get solved with vindictive tantrums masquerading as entertainment. Nobody likes being yelled at, lectured or belittled. All you're doing is hurting your own message by being so petty.
As a name, Indiana Black sounds much cooler than Frosk. Frosk sounds like the name of the frothy bubbles I leave in the toilet after drinking several beers.
Imagine you walk past a store where the employees are screaming at people outside for not coming inside to buy their products. That's literally what we're talking about here, being harangued and shamed for simply not having any interest in spending money on something you don't have any interest in. Gay rom-com? Okay, please enjoy that people that enjoy that sort of thing, but it's not for me.
We're at a point in history where people blame others for their own failures.
Thats not new :)
The way we approach this is getting more extreme (again)
If you are not with me, than you are against me
If you are against me, than you are a bad person
If you are a bad person you are probably:
- a liar
- someone not worth to trust
- someone who wants to harm me
If you are a liar not worth to trust who wants to harm me, you are guilty and therefore my enemy.
You can find this pattern of thinking all over the place - those people are close to be fanatics. Good luck sitting down with a fanatic finding a solution / compromise for what ever you try to discuss.
Blaming others is a very old problem.
And where boys/men are seen as better at being girls/women than actual women are. The absurdity is truly astounding.
That's a narcissistic trait. And narcissism is on the rise.
Is more like people want to be accepted but the people who cause the most harm are getting all the attention.
"You're a bigot if you don't give rich corporations your limited income to see their terrible preachy films". It's not the worst advertising technique of all time...but it's definitely up there.
It shows the poor judgement of marketing agencies - the political left have historically been vehermently anti-capitalist and anti-globalization, so demanding people consume the products of global entertainment mega-corps in order to indicate their political leanings to their peers was never going to be widely successful. The only folks they've managed to sway are naive narcissistic social media addicts who are greatly overrepresented in online spaces and have comparatively little spending power compared as a proportion of the movie-watching population.
I wonder what ways are worse tho lmao
"You're a piece of shit viewer, but you MUST tune in, or you're an even bigger piece of shit."
Sincerely, Hollywood
@@s3npai486 In ancient Greece for a while IIRC you'd lose citizen rights if you didn't watch the government's damn plays.
Grow up
Most will have no problem if these woke creators make a new character or new IP for their diverse characters. What fans are tired of is the constant "Fan Baiting" and they just changing established lore, characters and franchises as a whole to their own fringe belief system.
yup. these 'creators' are a hack.
That's the issue, media you or might enjoy offends them so severely it eats away at them like some sort of demonic entity, so they must co-opt every facet of fictional media to purify it of these harmful elements to their person
All you have to do is read every title with an addendum. "Moon Knight['s Female Counterpart]" or "[Some Mean Brown Lady Who Exists in the Same Universe as] Kenobi"
Why is it still like this?
P1: "I want entertainment"
P2: "Here's some modern political activism"
P1: "I didnt ask for this"
P2: "Bigot"
P3: You know what… F P2 let’s make our own entertainment
P2: REEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
I'm gay and i don't tend to gravitate towards gay characters because they feel like stereotypes and just straight up tokens. I hate how todays entertainment is all about Representation and not Good story telling.
Excuse me fuzzy cat. Can you see the irony that a lot of these modern writers claiming to be progressive and yet their gay stereotypes consist of outdated jokes as far back as the 2000's?
A quick glance at the Q Force trailer shows just the big out of touch bubble they live in. Can't they realize that gay men can be masculine and lesbians feminine too? No, they draw on the old 2000's parodies of gayness despite the new resources they got now
Same
Same here. Both my boyfriend and I love good stories and characters with good development, doesn't matter what their orientation is
They write gay characters as if that’s their entire identity. They’re not people, they’re gay. And that’s all.
The name of the game is characters, not caricatures
I understand that these Hollywood types have strong political beliefs. That is their right...to hold their beliefs. What pisses me off is that they don't concede that I also have the right to hold beliefs that are different than theirs. And I have no plans to buy what they are selling.
I don't think they even feel strongly about those beliefs. Some of them might have been bullied when they were younger, and they're using social radicalism as revenge. Some of them might feel guilt about Hollywood's insensitivity and resistance to change in the past, and want to reform the system to ease their own consciences. They strike me as insecure people.
What’s funny is that whatever audience they think or believed would show up. Didn’t. I’m gay and Bros looked like something that has been done in gay rom coms since the 90’s. Using the same stereotype troupes and telling the same story over again. Truth is that, the supposed audience they’re catering too don’t support or enjoy anything, but would rather rant and complain on social media and then move on to another thing to complain about.
I tried explaining all of this to one woke coworker who tried hard to defend all of these adaptations, Rings Of Power in particular.
Her only response to all my points was a cold, definitely not scripted “You’re choosing your own nostalgia over peoples right to exist, and that’s disgusting.”
Why are you even discussing these things with her? It's only one argument away from a HR complaint. I wouldn't even talk about anything outside of necessary work assignments with her.
@@StrongandGrand This is unfortunately extremely true. The times we live in warrant the separation of work and play. Gone are the days of the friendly office debate.
I would say, "I don't care if gay people exist. I just want them to be well written."
People didn’t take offense to Frosk demanding that viewers account & atone for their actions & attitudes; they took offense to her slandering them with false accusations.
Idk man, Frosk just seemed like a cunt
You can have characters that are gay, bi, any demographic you please. Comics have long been a space for all forms of people. However, lecturing storytelling that is unbalanced, lacking in overall story, dialogue etc. Consumers simply don't want this crap. Start Trek TOS had the first interracial kiss ever on tv and weren't shy about it. DS9 had Jadzia Dax, who had memories of being several people, including friends who remembered Dax as a man and still accepted her without much question, a kiss between two women in the form of a lover from the life another of the hosts to hold her symbiote.
Marvel introduced Luke Cage AKA Power Man, and Shang Chi, Black and Chinese Heroes respectively. Hell, more recently Voltron Legendary Defender had the leader of the Voltron force Shiro be gay and Shiro was epic (yes the last season was ugh but the series was for the most part awesome)!
Entertainment being inclusive is Not New, no matter how these hacks try to act like they are first in doing this stuff. You know why they want to ignore what has come before? They can't understand or perhaps stand that earlier works succeeded. Those earlier works educated without lecturing, they presented thought provoking and sometimes uncomfortable topics for their time WITHOUT beating the audience over the head, and with far more balanced writing, subtly, skill and it did not overtly or passive aggressively aim rage etc. at the audience.
It drives me insane. In terms of media, Woke is the tent occupied for angry, untalented hacks who, if judged on the true merit of their ability to tell compelling stories as opposed to checkmarks, couldn't hack it. Their kind of storytelling needs to, right along with the insane practice of fan baiting, fade to nothingness and never return.
"Their kind of storytelling needs to, right along with the insane practice of fan baiting, fade to nothingness and never return."
I think it will, in time, and it won't be long now, for the reasons you spell out here. They're already seeing diminishing returns, people (whom we nerds call "normies") who ordinarily don't look too deeply into these things, are themselves starting to see through the cracks; they're noticing how crap everything is getting. They sometimes don't even know _why,_ they just know that they don't like something anymore and just stop watching it.
In future decades, people will still be watching OG _Star Trek, Doctor Who, Star Wars_ and similar; the stuff that provokes thought, engenders intelligent discussion or is just plain _fun_ without the disparaging overtones, while the junk to come post-2009 (all-flash-no-substance and ideological grandstanding) will be relegated to bargain bins and free download sites, ignored for the garbage that it is.
I'm supporting independent creators as much as I can. Some are expensive, but these are people mostly working out of their garages and don't have mulitbillion-dollar corporations to prop up their insipid tripe that doesn't sell. Don't let 'em kid ya, the Big Guns are feeling the pinch and it infuriates (and confuses) them that somebody with a homemade comic book or self-published novel can outsell a flagship title that's been around for decades. Support independents in this, the new _Iron Age of Storytelling,_ and we can have good, quality stories again.
Okay, I rambled more than I expected to. 😁
Art is all about subtlety. The allure that draws you back again and again. Modern entertainment is not art it is only messaging and propaganda (for the most part).
Good video. Informative non-bias take which is rare. Movie critics and viewer reviews have not match on like 80% of movies. And movies are a form of escape from the real world, so if you bring political views that are already shoved in our faces with social outlets it turn people away.
This really echoed in my chamberlain
Mr. Chamberlain: "They want to be entertained or they'll look elsewhere."
Me, a Conservative Atheist, reading a manga: "Couldn't agree more."
Oxymoron
@@Jean-ClaudeGodDamn Elaborate
@@Caelus32 I dunno what they're talking about either, I'm a conservative atheist too...
@@Mysticuffs Conservatism is generally intermingled with religion. If you believe in free markets, but you're also an atheist, then you probably fall into another political alignment, such as libertarianism or objectivism.
Me a Liberal Christian: 😵💫
Fair and balanced critique
I would've always held myself to be a libertarian, however "equality", doesn't mean supremacy, and I find myself oddly drawn to more conservative perspectives simply because I do not appreciate bias or castigation of anyone, including straight white men.
Also, being both a straight white man myself, and! a member of a minority (visually impared people), not held to be one of the sacred woke characteristics, the message rings extremely hollow.
After all, from my perspective, anyone with working eyeballs have "privilege", and I'm pretty sure if I were to start to castigate everybody for their "blindophobia", or their "unconscious sighted bias", I would not be a particularly nice person, even though yes, having a visual imparement isn't exactly fun.
I actually suspect I'm not alone, however when a political movement is calling anyone and everyone who disagrees with the tennits of that movement an enemy irrispective of their actual views, I suppose that is what they will end up being.
Indeed, I suspect like myself far more actual liberals and believers in equality have more in common with moderate conservatives, than with ultra wokesters.
Plus of course, the idea that any "liberal", should be propping up global business, and protecting the interests of fortune 500 companies against individuals, as we increasingly see with so called "liberal", media outlets is just plane craaaaaaazy!
Whole bunch of interesting ideas. For someone shortsighted, you can definitely see the bigger picture.
@@EchoChamberlain Thanks, enjoy the videos.
Ironically, I finished a Phd in ethics in 2019, part of the principle argument of which was that focusing on the intrinsic "differentness", of disabled people, and "disabled experience", is ultimately unproductive, yet, increasingly I see those people most concerned with rescuing the world from "racism", "sexism", or "homophobia", to be so radically bent on promoting people according to race, gender, or sexual preference, that the hole thing seems to be eating it's own tale right now; especially as I said, when viewed from the perspective of a none privileged minority.
I'm actually very much hoping wokeness will burn itself out before I do, since publication of anything, academic, or still worse fictional is pretty impossible right now due to the biases in the publishing industry which you yourself mentioned previously.
Not that I have any desire to write characters "like me", either, indeed thus far, most of my characters have run the gammet of gender age, and even species.
which is exactly why I find myself gravitating to anti woke content, since it is at least a way to clarrify some frustrations with the current era, as well as take comfort in the fact that most people are not either radical social justice warriors or the dreaded right wing extremists.
@@marasmorgean5813 Interestingly enough, recently saw a video by a lady called patience Xina who noted that the term "conservative", meant to preserve elements of the past, and where previously (and indeed sterreotypically), the "consservative", meant some sort of 1950's, neuclear family perspective, these days, a lot of younger people are considering themselves "conservative", since the time they wish to hark back to is actually just the naughties and early twenty teens, and that what is now ubiquitously called "the left!", is actually growing far more restrictive in terms of matters such as sensorship and even segrigation.
I do remember myself, that the first time I heard the term "lgbt" (there was no q at that point), was when I looked up the series torchwood in 2009, and it was listed as having "lgbt themes."
I remember being quite surprised, I'd really enjoyed torchwood, and yeah, about half the characters were gay or bisexual, but I never saw it as having anything so pretentious or ongoing as : "themes!", mostly I just considered it a cool doctor who spinoff about people who fought aliens in Cardiff :D.
@@darktenor4967 It doesn't surprise me in the least that young conservatives want to wind the clock back to the noughties. Just before that period there was a transatlantic shift in economic policies that saw the left fully embrace free market capitalism. The plan was to encourage bonus culture in financial industry, increasing tax revenue, and in turn increasing public spending. It was thought to be the best of both worlds - aspirational mega-wealth AND social responsibility - until everyone realized it also encouraged structured tax evasion programmes, speculative risk taking on previously unimaginable levels, and actively drove inequality through the roof, eventually culminating in the 2008 crash and the admission by Alan Greenspan that the vision of free market capitalism he had spent 60 years advocating at the highest levels of governments around the globe was fundamentally broken.
Who wouldn't want to go back to a time before the illusions of political and economic perfection were shattered? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
@@darktenor4967 Thats the point!!! Torchwood wasn't "designed" to be as diverse as possible, they had gay couples in it (what was completly fine for me), but it wasn't all about gay couples - if you read what torchwood is about, and watch the tv show, you can say: yes! they promised, they delivered...
Nowadays it completly shifted - MCU was once known for bad-ass-cgi-overload-action movies with heros doing their usual stuff. They still promote them like 10/15 years ago but if you watch them - its not about heros doing their stuff...its about agenda-politics 24/7.
There are 35 Million gay people over the age of 16 (old enough to go see an R-Rated movie). If he captured 30% of that audience he would've had one of the biggest hits of the year. Gay people didn't show up for Eichner's Bros. Why would straight people have to go to a movie that gay people didn't support it. It made like 11 Million dollars or something like that.
That's the real weird thing. They didn't make a gay romance for gay people to watch. They made a gay romance that alienated both gay audiences who thought it wasn't gay enough, and straight audiences who didn't care to see it.
As long as people understand that poor writting causes failures. Diversity, isn't a problem, just forced inclusion of it.
Excellent points! Who feels entertained by being insulted? I am certainly not going to pay for it.
Well... superman has always been kinda close to conservative valued due to his upbringing with mama and papa Kent who i am sure, went to Church every sunday and took Clarck with them.
Love this. You've earned yourself a new subscriber!
Hollywood has a world to turn and they will lose as much money as necessary in that pursuit. Get used to rewatching the old good stuff.
I’ve gotten to the point where I hit the like button on every one of your videos before watching so I don’t forget. I have yet to regret it.
If just found this channel. Not only is there enjoyable content, but the channel name is pun-based. Perfect!!!!
I have enjoyed queer films at art house theatres, but my understanding was that _Bros_ just wasn't very good. I read Marvel comics for years and they were often political, but my understanding is that the recent stories just aren't very good.
I like reboots and adaptations when they're good. These days, most of them aren't.
I like "blind casting" unless it would violate the established rules of the story or be a distraction -- I was annoyed by The Witcher being moved from Poland to Britain but not by the "diverse" cast. Unfortunately, too often the story is deliberately altered for "representation" and the story suffers for it.
The stories need to be good.
Same investment firm is propping all these companies up.
It’s not about the money.
Identity politics or woke-ism has got me into sports. I make it a sport to not spend money on entertainment and/or physical goods that has woke attached to it, be it with their 'the message' via advertising or contaminating the entertainment with contrived politics/activism. Because of this I haven't been in a cinema since 2017, cancelled most streaming services and skip certain brands/games. It saved me a lot of money and aggravation. Together with not watching television nor listening to commercial radio (for over 15 years now), you fairly stay objective, because it's nearly impossible to be influenced that way. I recommend this to anyone.
Short answer: NO
I swear, I think they're getting WORSE now.
To be clear, movies was always with politic/social messages (and it's fine, we are human being with morals and beliefs and want to share that). BUT they were smart enough to made their "message" subtle and put the STORY FIRST. So you can enjoy the movie (or the tv show, the book, you name it) in the first level and then go deeper and, possibly, enjoy the message. The problem now is you have the message first, slammed in your face, in a crude way, no sophistication, not smart thinking, not intellectual game with the viewer. It's like a fast food chain: here the meal, eat it, chew a little, swallow immediately, fill your stomach. And if you think about it it make sense, the writers are the product of the suburbs wasteland. And, btw, these people think we are still stucked in the 50s, when media was really a white heaven.
I just hate entitled people
I think a lot of projects already were given the green light which is why we may not see this crap stop for a while.
I'm a straight white guy, not that it matters.
I like racial diversity, have no issue with folks in same sex relationships.
I also like other silly little things like, entertainment and escapism.
Aren't these things compatible, did I miss something.
Lesson #1 : Going to war with your own customers is suicide for a business.
Lesson #2 : People want good stories that are well told, and woke credentials are no substitute for talent and creativity.
Lesson #3 : The free market is the ultimate democracy, and will always win in the end.
Lesson #4 : You're not entitled to an audience.
And the thing is, they DID know this in the past. Particularly lesson #1. I'm no "the customer is always right" person (I've worked too long in retail and customer service to believe THAT schlock) but even when they're wrong, you don't go to war with them, particularly if you want to keep them as customers, and when they're right, you sure as hell didn't try to convince them they're wrong.
I don't know when this started. Could have been 2014-ish, when suddenly, and completely spontaneously, I'm sure, gaming publications all released articles attacking gamers with titles like "Gamers don't have to be your audience, gamers are over" and "we're witnessing the death of the gamer identity". It continued on, around 2016, with Ghost "you're misogynistic if you don't watch this movie" Busters. Same with Star Wars with all it's character assassinations. Suddenly, if you objected to what amounted to a clown coming into your house, dressing up in your dead father's clothes and dancing around going "look at me, I'm your dad!" You were just an asshole who hated _________. (Thanks to Rich from RLM for that analogy.) Ok, that was a bit hyperbolic, but my point stands. If you objected to the crap they were pushing out bearing the name of franchises you loved, well, you just weren't a fan. It's disgusting.
I don't even buy comics, but if superman or his son moved back to Kansas and became a Baptist / non-denominational / evangelical Christian and found solace in God, I would buy every issue. Christian superman is best superman.
7:24 They're looking elsewhere all right -- to the Land of the Rising Sun. Manga sales are burying American comics and anime is firmly entrenched.
Well said sir
Some of my stories have gay men. The focus on their love has nothing to do with them being men. It’s on the love that’s found between two people who feel othered from the world and it’s experience. I just want to tell love stories in different avenues and I feel like identity politics ruin it, making it seem like I’m pandering.
At this point, they’ll never learn. And I’ve come to a point in life where I’m actively rooting them to off themselves because of their refusal to learn from their mistakes.
I don’t want to watch a movie/tv show or read a book or play a video game that has way too much real world baggage. I get way too much of that just by going to work or even walking down the street.
That being said, I don’t mind seeing some LGBT characters here and there in works of fiction. A video game like Fallout: New Vegas has handled this extremely well in my opinion. Cases and points, Arcade Gannon and Veronica Santangelo. Arcade is bisexual whereas Veronica is a lesbian. However there is no scene of either of them kissing someone of the same gender. Instead they say something like, “I care about this person a lot” and that’s basically it. Their orientation does not inhibit their other abilities such as physical and intellectual powers.
To put it simply, if you want to make a gay character, go ahead make them gay. Just please put more qualities than that. Like make them smart. Or make them strong. We don’t need to see them kissing or fucking someone of the same gender every single scene they’re in.
"HAHAAA! Dees is alla workin' asa inteeennndeeeed (*Italian hand gesture*)!
- Antonio Gramsci
Are they learning?
I don't think so... They will keep doing the same thing over and over again expecting different outcome... Until they completely ruin their studios...
misses the point that liberals aren't buying bi-superman either
To be fair, there is a fringe market for gay MMC comic books in Japan. The mistake was these corporations thinking they could force it to go mainstream.
Pamphleteering has always been the enemy of art. Gone off the rails and the correction is happening. Will go the way of Christian Rock.
Never needed characters to be my race or gender to understand and love them as a character. I’m not white, but I love and feel for Steve throughout his appearance in the MCU. I’m not a woman but I love Gamora and her tragic arc from when she found love to when she unfortunately died (Original Gamora, not that time travel b.s)
yes, thank you. There is no genuinely liberal space out there where people are left/liberal/progressive, but distance themselves from the craziness. I feel you.
They are getting "passive income" from ESG investors, this is why they are giving fans and potential viewers the finger. Wait until the ESG bubble burst and these grifters will be begging us to come back.
They're not doing these things to make money. Its much more sinister than that.
A message to Hollywood: If you want to drive audiences back and turn a profit on your products, stop with all of these identity politic nonsense. Audiences want to be entertained, not be involved in politics.
If you want good stories, watch foreign films or Independent American films. Hollywood has been bad for a long time now.
2:56 This pitch actually sounds kino. It's not equivalent. They aren't buying comics anyway.
Nope. They are blaming fans. Who are sick of consuming shit. Thus, they don't give them money.
I can't believe the nonsense, it drives me:
Up the wall
Around the bend
Around the twist
Crazy
Since this video was made Disney had the $100 million "Strange World" bomb, and now we're heading into a recession, so they better learn soon.
They're so rich they don't seem to care they're losing millions. I mean Disney lost *billions* on star wars, and they both *still* have Kennedy on the payroll *and still* are letting her make movies
I'm all for diversity/inclusion but I also don't want it forced upon me... regardless of character quality is the key...
Im sorry, bros was a gay soft porn. Not a film.
They need to disassemble for that to happen
Isn't subconscious bias? I didn't know people can be bias when they're unconscious...
I like to say thank BlackRock for the drop of quality of stories and focusing ONLY on identity politics, when identity should not be such a heavy focus but a complimentary added trait to a charcter to a quality story. Now stories are being told for the sake of telling, or they are destroying the money hoarders in Hollywood by producing content that their own allies "want". They want to be seen as equals not better than others, these movies are doing the exact opposite. If the companies were not so money hungry they would not have listen to Black Rock who says which company people should or should not invest in, for all we know its complex business deals and keeping the comapny afloat on absolute trash movies and series.
Yeah if they made the film sisters I imagine that would have done considerably better 😂
I understand your complaint at the start of this piece, but as someone who once considered myself on the "liberal left" but no longer, the question is whether "checking the excesses" is meaningful, or whether the entire philosophy is fundamentally wrong and rotten, a conclusion I reached after a gradual falling away starting in the 90s with feminism, since I found myself with the problem that it said things about men which I knew not to be true, and without those things the whole philosophy fell apart. It comes down to whether one merely attempts to check the excesses of Nazism, or Communism, or Christian or Islamic Fundamentalism, etc, or discard them as inherently without value.
This turning away has the trite "red pill" label these days, but there is a moment with any extreme philosophy which one has adhered to when suddenly the edifice of justification all collapses and is revealed before one's eyes for what it is. You can still believe in the things you used to think it stood for- equality, or gay rights, or whatnot- without the philosophy itself at all, just as one can desire peace on Earth without being a Christian.
The only way forwards is not to swap one ideology for another, or attempt to moderate their excesses, but to just dump the lot of them. You don't have to be in one gang or another. That's my humble opinion anyway.
For one to be capable of learning, one needs working brain cells.
To answer your question. No. Hollywood is not learning. Despite plummeting stock prices, lower sales, and even the cancelation of projects or the shutting down of whole studios like G4tv. They refuse to learn.
I can hear the rebuttal of people who don't agree with this channel now. "How much more 'traditional' entertainment do you people need? You already have centuries of children's literature and several decades of classic Disney films. You already have plenty of 'wholesome' and patriotic propaganda. You even imposed censorship on Hollywood and other entertainments so that you would always get exactly what you wanted." I think these critics miss several points, such as that even tradition belongs to the future and can always be continued in innovative ways, and that today's "movement" conservatism differs a great deal from the somewhat superficial conservatism of 100 years ago.
I also think these "identitarians" don't understand that most people do not despise left-wing entertainment; they despise left-wing entertainment only when they feel left out of it. Too many heterosexual and/or Christian white men feel that they have no choice but to be conservative because the left seems to reject them. I wish to God we could return to the pre-1968 left, which both welcomed minorities and offered a place for "average" Americans.
Short answer- No
Long answer- Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
I’m trying so hard to be a good liberal I really am!
Im gay and liberal but I prefer my entertainment leave out real world baggage, if I wanted that I wouldnt need to watch I could just watch tik tok and twitter.
"Certain parts of the country."
What a cheeky bugger. Just say it plainly: The poor parts.
You hear that South and Midwest USA? Billy thinks you're too poor to be as moral as he is. He says he was entitled to your eyeballs on the basis of his movie's subject matter alone. How could you all live with yourselves for disappointing him?
You can't simultaneously make a very niche film and then bitch about it when the film inevitably isn't a massive box office success. Bros wasn't even on my radar.
Do one on bud light next. 😂
Truth Justice and the American GAY 😂
Hate to be that guy, but I'm fairly certain if an article had "gay people aren't entirely to blame" in its title, it would most likely be hit with a large wave of outrage from particular Twitter users.
But it's fine. It's just straight people. Who cares.
Nah they never learn
Oh...she was a league coach. No wonder shes awful. 😅😅😅😂
why would any of these heroes need to protest for climate change? superman could fly over and freeze the ice and preventing from melting
Well as of size months later...
Nope.
exactly
idk-. I don't think it's identity politics. I think it's just cringe people being cringe. it's not exclusive to one side or ideology. like asmongold said people will buy/excuse anything as long as the product is good on some level. fact of the matter is the products themselves aren't good. Simple as.
Up the wall
Here's the problem with being a liberal type who just wants everyone to get along: someone who just wants to be left alone will always lose to someone who wants to win. For whatever reason, the universe hasn't seen fit to grant us the right to lay back and do our thing without worrying about the people around us. We do have to worry. We do need values. We need to pass judgment on what's good and what isn't. And pretty often, we need to act on that judgment, even when it isn't "nice".
Personally, I have my concerns about traditional religion, BUT... their vision is sound, it is at least somewhat compatible with human reality, and it provides hope for a future. Compared to the sterile self-destructive insanity of wokism, my problems with religious people are minor quibbles. I am done trying to walk the "let's be reasonable" line (and I'm not alone, apparently). There's no reason in woke causes. They are promoting things that are tolerable at best, and shouldn't be the chosen goal of anyone who cares about mankind's future, or their own future for that matter.
I'm me your you.
That's been happening since begining of time .
So now you want to reconize me.
Why im ok with what God gave me
People pushing their lifestyles into entertainment and not actually making anything entertaining then expecting people to pay for it 🤔🤷
film what you want but dont force me to like and pay for it!
I am a straight male, married to a wonderful woman going on 27 years, and just because I do not like to watch homosexual content that doesn't makes me homophobic. I may have had problems with the LGBTQI+ community in the past because of how I was raised (indoctrinated as a christian) but now that I am an atheist I've shed most of my biases and bigotry.
Judging from the numbers, gay people didn’t even show up to watch Bros.
Does racism, sexism and homophobia exist? Yeah they do. Is representation important? Absolutely. Are climate issues important? Undoubtedly.
But none of these things are going to get solved with vindictive tantrums masquerading as entertainment. Nobody likes being yelled at, lectured or belittled. All you're doing is hurting your own message by being so petty.
Go woke go broke
Frosks name is INDIANA BLACK???
Well yes, it's not like it was a secret it was always present on her banner when she used to cast League
As a name, Indiana Black sounds much cooler than Frosk. Frosk sounds like the name of the frothy bubbles I leave in the toilet after drinking several beers.
I know making fun of people's names is low, but it sounds like the title of a 90's porn movie
These aren’t real problems
Imagine you walk past a store where the employees are screaming at people outside for not coming inside to buy their products. That's literally what we're talking about here, being harangued and shamed for simply not having any interest in spending money on something you don't have any interest in. Gay rom-com? Okay, please enjoy that people that enjoy that sort of thing, but it's not for me.
If you want to want highly religious content, tbn and pureflix is your best bet