Great 🎉 always gentlemen. Right at the deadline I was little disappointed that Cleveland didn't grab a proven arm and I was irritated when I saw what LA gave the Tigers. This morning after hearing Flaherty has a bum back and has gotten injections for it over the past few weeks and seeing that no stud pitcher was traded, I think the front office pushed the best buttons they could have based on what was available.
No… feels like more of the same from management… get average to below average players for minimum cost and hope they work out… never spend your chips… even though you don’t need many of those chips because their positions are already locked down.. I just wish the Guardians management would actually show they are all in and stop holding onto these minor prospects when half of them play positions that are already filled
They have too many prospects tbh, the Guardians should have actually showed they’re all in and made the big trade for one of the bigger name pitchers.. they hold onto their prospects like gold, even though many of these guys have no spot at the next level for multiple years, and they’re in a win now spot
@@christoph1596I get what you are saying and don't disagree with the overall thought, but let me throw in this.... the Guardian's are set up for long term success and multiple Championships. The Guardian's have the best record in Baseball a year ahead of schedule and they did it by developing their own young talent. Maybe they see enough in what thy already have to not go all in...... we will soon see Boyd pitch and not sure, but Cobb will be back at some point, plus Krazy K-Chek and Hentges should be back soon Maybe adding those guys with Gavin figuring it out becomes a solid plan? Again, not saying you are wrong, just playing a different perspective, good post
That is another reason, why I like the Lane trade so much, after a year of developing the last draft class, they get to draft another and if things work out the way I think they will.... they get to trade Lane next year for a major haul and recoup all they gave away this year..... I am so stoked about how this Front Office goes about it's business with the Dolan's as the Owners..... they are spectacular at their jobs.....
I agree with Justin. I was underwhelmed by picking up Cobb. Our two pitching additions have not pitched this year, and we don't know if either will be better than Carrasco. I guess I was looking for a third in rotation as well. Maybe Cobb is it. Maybe Lively can keep it up. Guess I am spoiled by previous playoff rotations. Thanks for the content. Look forward to tomorrow's show.
I have been on here preaching about "no" trades and all the answers being in-house. What goes good with crow? I was okay with small tweaks, but this I believe was a Front Office showing how talented they really are. I see Lane as an everyday type player, but see him being moved around in the Guardian's way but always in RF when the matchup dictates. I see him smoothing out and being the man to bat between Kwan and Jose (I see Martinez beefing up the guys around him in the 6 hole) Then I see him as a World Series Champion, being moved at next year's trade deadline, forever a hero in the hearts of Cleveland and getting back everything the Team traded away this year to get him and Cobb.
I see Cobb and Boyd eating up a ton of innings in August and Sept and I am okay with a Bibbee, Williams, Lively plus this Bullpen properly *rested* postseason run.
Let’s not overlook the fact that Gavin pitched an absolute gem last night. That’s 3 of his 4 starts where he’s looked very good. I’m still fine with a front three of Bibee/Williams/Lively going into a series. All we will need is five innings. It’s doubtful that Bresnahan ever even makes the show. Cobb is going to be a good add when he’s back, and I’d much rather make this deal than pay what teams paid for a guy like Rodgers or Kikuchi. I do think we could’ve dipped into the Chourio/Manzardo range of players to pickup Flaherty but it’s fine. I think Lane Thomas will make a massive difference in this lineup, especially on days when Noel is DHing.
The issue was the two top pitching prospects were division opponents (White Sox, Tigers)… So, I’m sure their asking price would have been HUGE because they don’t want the Guardians getting better
Justin is so right!!!!! Me and the wife talk about how no one can see nuance anymore. I went in knowing we weren’t getting a ace. I still wanted more. One more RP to just make the best bullpen even better! Great show boys
Indians/Guardians have always been able to land quality young arms in one-sided trades in the past, ie. Cliff Lee, Carlos Carrasco, Trevor Bauer, Mike Clevinger, and Corey Kluber!! I know that giving up Bartolo Colon and Sabathia are major moves, but they were essentially one year rentals, but Cliff Lee and Carrasco were huge for the Tribe! I believe they have up (2) huge young arms for literally "Zero Return"! Hope I'm wrong.
Yeah I’m not trying to be negative or Debbie downer but something still feels off to me about our ability to make a serious push for a WS.. maybe just my PTSD of CLE sports but we’ll see. Roll Tribe. “We’ll see” definitely the motto for the rest of the season, just kinda feel bummed out in what has been a joy ride season so far.
The Law point I heard yesterday regarding Thomas is a good one: what the Guardians gave up for him points to the difficulty the organization has had in developing their own corner bats. And any contender should be able to develop their own Lane Thomas without overpaying for him. But I must say that I am shocked Cookie is better than Avilia the first time through the order. Never would have guessed that.
If Cobb can be what he used to be just for the this season and we know Lane is a good hitter. I'd say we'll hold our own. But, we do need Boyd to be good or Allen to come back and be better. I'd rate the deadline a B.
Feels like more 2023 draftees were moved across the league than I would have expected, would have hoped to clear more 40 man roster room with an eye towards this off-season than just Jose tena.
This show was a high point for my agreement with Jeff. I thought Jeff was right on today. The Guardians made moves that make sense for October. They could have paid a ton for Trevor Rogers or Yusei Kikuchi. But neither of those guys is better than a healthy Alex Cobb or someone you want pitching in the playoffs. Alex Cobb is a gamble on an impact starter. If Cobb is giving us quality playoff innings, then we got a bargain (why we added a PTBN and took his salary).
To answer ur question. No, they definitely did NOT do enough to help them go any further in the playoffs. I dont mind Thomas. Decent move. The Cobb move makes me laugh. Hes 36, injured and hasnt played at all. Yeah, that ll work Lol. I hate our ownership. I would have signed Bauer. That would have made a difference
If you give a player the qualifying offer when they leave as a FA and sign for a certain amount of money teams get a bonus pick after the first 30 selections
I think your criticism of these trades is a bit harsh at this point in time. We acquired 2 proven players in exchange for 5 unproven players. Yes, the injury history is a risk but then again, injuries are always a risk (for any player). As far as the prospects becoming something substantial in the future is concerned, that is the risk you take with ANY prospect that is traded BUT, as you pointed out in a recent episode, that rarely happens. You have to give up something of value in order to get something of value. Lastly, with regard to the starters, we just need ONE of Cobb and Boyd to pan out. If we get both, that's a bonus as far as I'm concerned.
It’s all an unknown, but… Cobb has a chance to win postseason games this year. Bresnahan may have a solid career with Cleveland and never make a postseason appearance. Maybe they both never make it. Seems like a worthwhile trade to me.
The guys who run this team know what they are doing. Proven track record. Even without that established history, I like the moves. There was no one worth mortgaging the future on. And honestly, with the added teams the playoffs are a complete crapshoot; the best team hardly ever wins anyway. I’m happy we didn’t do something like trade DeLauter for Kikuchi. I want to continue to be a competitive team year in and year out. Let’s roll.
Get ready to be thrilled with Cobb. I believe the Guardians don't make this move and cover $3.3 million without feeling good about his availability and effectiveness for the strech run.
Deadline was underwhelming but the market was massively inflated Because of other teams overpaying. But trading a prospect for a 37 year old with injury’s is kinda stupid.
extremely underwhelmed. we're banking on a 36yr old who hasn't pitched this year and a 33yr old who hasn't pitched this year to help our rotation big time. I just don't like it. Even if they do ok, I doubt they're going to be able to pitch a lot of innings, which is what we need! anyway, I do like the Lane Thomas addition (you guys and Godcast helped me come around on that one). I just find it hard to believe we couldn't swing a deal for a healthy, average/below-average starter to eat some innings. I get that the price was probably too steep - but we're 23 games above .500 NOW. No guarantees we'll be in a position like this in the future.
I see what you’re saying. I also love that we are competitive year in and year out rather than going all in for one season and then sucking for years like so many teams do. I’m fine with what we did at the deadline.
Not much to see here. Lane Thomas is decent, but Alex Cobb is nothing special. If they make the playoffs, which I still don't see as inevitable, hard to see them winning more than one series at best. Same old story. I'd rather just buy one title like the Marlins than never see one and have this going on every year.
THIS. I used to be totally onboard with all of the allegedly smart moves the org makes, but not this time. They don't want to win. They're content to just be ok because the fans are content with just ok. Then they can look at stats and say bullshit like "The Guardians win% over an entire decade is elite" while never winning even a single ring.
In a wide open season in which every contender has flaws, once again they did just enough to pretend like they did something. Useless non-additions. I love our players, but this org is an embarrassment. Jose is a prisoner on a team that will never win a ring.
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Great 🎉 always gentlemen. Right at the deadline I was little disappointed that Cleveland didn't grab a proven arm and I was irritated when I saw what LA gave the Tigers. This morning after hearing Flaherty has a bum back and has gotten injections for it over the past few weeks and seeing that no stud pitcher was traded, I think the front office pushed the best buttons they could have based on what was available.
This is the right take I know people want more but there wasn't more
No… feels like more of the same from management… get average to below average players for minimum cost and hope they work out… never spend your chips… even though you don’t need many of those chips because their positions are already locked down..
I just wish the Guardians management would actually show they are all in and stop holding onto these minor prospects when half of them play positions that are already filled
There wasn't big names traded
@@LockedonGuardians Fedde would’ve been huge… but ya, I’m hopeful this guy works out and Gavin Williams can keep improving
Considering the amount of pitchers we just drafted, I'm fine with both trades.
Same
They have too many prospects tbh, the Guardians should have actually showed they’re all in and made the big trade for one of the bigger name pitchers.. they hold onto their prospects like gold, even though many of these guys have no spot at the next level for multiple years, and they’re in a win now spot
@@christoph1596I get what you are saying and don't disagree with the overall thought, but let me throw in this.... the Guardian's are set up for long term success and multiple Championships.
The Guardian's have the best record in Baseball a year ahead of schedule and they did it by developing their own young talent.
Maybe they see enough in what thy already have to not go all in...... we will soon see Boyd pitch and not sure, but Cobb will be back at some point, plus Krazy K-Chek and Hentges should be back soon
Maybe adding those guys with Gavin figuring it out becomes a solid plan?
Again, not saying you are wrong, just playing a different perspective, good post
That is another reason, why I like the Lane trade so much, after a year of developing the last draft class, they get to draft another and if things work out the way I think they will.... they get to trade Lane next year for a major haul and recoup all they gave away this year.....
I am so stoked about how this Front Office goes about it's business with the Dolan's as the Owners..... they are spectacular at their jobs.....
Always deal from depth
I agree with Justin. I was underwhelmed by picking up Cobb. Our two pitching additions have not pitched this year, and we don't know if either will be better than Carrasco.
I guess I was looking for a third in rotation as well. Maybe Cobb is it. Maybe Lively can keep it up.
Guess I am spoiled by previous playoff rotations.
Thanks for the content. Look forward to tomorrow's show.
thanks for the kind words, I think a lot had to do with new playoff format extra wildcard has killed the deadline and options available
I have been on here preaching about "no" trades and all the answers being in-house.
What goes good with crow?
I was okay with small tweaks, but this I believe was a Front Office showing how talented they really are.
I see Lane as an everyday type player, but see him being moved around in the Guardian's way but always in RF when the matchup dictates.
I see him smoothing out and being the man to bat between Kwan and Jose (I see Martinez beefing up the guys around him in the 6 hole)
Then I see him as a World Series Champion, being moved at next year's trade deadline, forever a hero in the hearts of Cleveland and getting back everything the Team traded away this year to get him and Cobb.
It's always fun to eat crow when it's a positive is my view. I get things wrong all the time but much happier when I am wrong and it benefits the team
Simply a superb episode, thanks gents, loved the info, listened twice.
Our pleasure!
Needed a Short Stop that can hit !!
IKF was the only one that got traded
You two are really growing on me - appreciate the well thought out content!
Much appreciated!
Cobb is a sneaky good move i think and i really like the Lane move.
I agree
I see Cobb and Boyd eating up a ton of innings in August and Sept and I am okay with a Bibbee, Williams, Lively plus this Bullpen properly *rested* postseason run.
Hopefully Cobb can be vintage and give us a killer rest of the year. And then go to postseason hot
I agree they will help balance the team out
Let’s not overlook the fact that Gavin pitched an absolute gem last night. That’s 3 of his 4 starts where he’s looked very good. I’m still fine with a front three of Bibee/Williams/Lively going into a series. All we will need is five innings. It’s doubtful that Bresnahan ever even makes the show. Cobb is going to be a good add when he’s back, and I’d much rather make this deal than pay what teams paid for a guy like Rodgers or Kikuchi. I do think we could’ve dipped into the Chourio/Manzardo range of players to pickup Flaherty but it’s fine. I think Lane Thomas will make a massive difference in this lineup, especially on days when Noel is DHing.
The issue was the two top pitching prospects were division opponents (White Sox, Tigers)… So, I’m sure their asking price would have been HUGE because they don’t want the Guardians getting better
Yup and a good chance he is better than Richards or kikuchi
Justin is so right!!!!! Me and the wife talk about how no one can see nuance anymore. I went in knowing we weren’t getting a ace. I still wanted more. One more RP to just make the best bullpen even better! Great show boys
Well said
Indians/Guardians have always been able to land quality young arms in one-sided trades in the past, ie. Cliff Lee, Carlos Carrasco, Trevor Bauer, Mike Clevinger, and Corey Kluber!! I know that giving up Bartolo Colon and Sabathia are major moves, but they were essentially one year rentals, but Cliff Lee and Carrasco were huge for the Tribe! I believe they have up (2) huge young arms for literally "Zero Return"! Hope I'm wrong.
Other side of the coin is when did they ever give up a pitching prospect that turned into anything
@@LockedonGuardians Lol, true facts! LOG, you got me again 😁, hope you're right!
Everything is on the Cobb!
Leave, leave now
The prices were insane on pitching and this extra wild card has destroyed the deadline
I agree
Yeah I’m not trying to be negative or Debbie downer but something still feels off to me about our ability to make a serious push for a WS.. maybe just my PTSD of CLE sports but we’ll see. Roll Tribe. “We’ll see” definitely the motto for the rest of the season, just kinda feel bummed out in what has been a joy ride season so far.
At the same time it was just a meh deadline extra wildcard has killer the deadline for big name additions
The Law point I heard yesterday regarding Thomas is a good one: what the Guardians gave up for him points to the difficulty the organization has had in developing their own corner bats. And any contender should be able to develop their own Lane Thomas without overpaying for him.
But I must say that I am shocked Cookie is better than Avilia the first time through the order. Never would have guessed that.
It's weird how few guys work out but part of that is always being good is they don't get as many shots at safer talent
I wish they got Lowe and DFAd Rocchio
Lowe isn't a SS, IKF would have been the SD to get
@@LockedonGuardians I was thinking of them moving Giminez to SS and Lowe at 2nd
If Cobb can be what he used to be just for the this season and we know Lane is a good hitter. I'd say we'll hold our own. But, we do need Boyd to be good or Allen to come back and be better. I'd rate the deadline a B.
That's all fair points and a fair grade, have to measure against what was available
Feels like more 2023 draftees were moved across the league than I would have expected, would have hoped to clear more 40 man roster room with an eye towards this off-season than just Jose tena.
There are not a ton of guys they have to add shouldn't be too hard
This show was a high point for my agreement with Jeff. I thought Jeff was right on today. The Guardians made moves that make sense for October. They could have paid a ton for Trevor Rogers or Yusei Kikuchi. But neither of those guys is better than a healthy Alex Cobb or someone you want pitching in the playoffs. Alex Cobb is a gamble on an impact starter. If Cobb is giving us quality playoff innings, then we got a bargain (why we added a PTBN and took his salary).
I agree and Kikuchi has been terrible for 2 months outside of Flahety and elfin I am not sure anyone else out there was for sure better
To answer ur question. No, they definitely did NOT do enough to help them go any further in the playoffs. I dont mind Thomas. Decent move. The Cobb move makes me laugh. Hes 36, injured and hasnt played at all. Yeah, that ll work
Lol. I hate our ownership. I would have signed Bauer. That would have made a difference
Bauer is getting lit up in the Mexican league he is worse than Cobb
What about bringing Brito up at 2B and moving Giminez to SS?
I dont think they are flipping AG right now but I would be for it
Newish to MLB baseball… how would not trading Thomas next year give the Guards a bonus draft pick?
If you give a player the qualifying offer when they leave as a FA and sign for a certain amount of money teams get a bonus pick after the first 30 selections
I think your criticism of these trades is a bit harsh at this point in time. We acquired 2 proven players in exchange for 5 unproven players. Yes, the injury history is a risk but then again, injuries are always a risk (for any player). As far as the prospects becoming something substantial in the future is concerned, that is the risk you take with ANY prospect that is traded BUT, as you pointed out in a recent episode, that rarely happens. You have to give up something of value in order to get something of value. Lastly, with regard to the starters, we just need ONE of Cobb and Boyd to pan out. If we get both, that's a bonus as far as I'm concerned.
I didn't think we were critical at all if anything defended the trades while explaining risks
It’s all an unknown, but… Cobb has a chance to win postseason games this year. Bresnahan may have a solid career with Cleveland and never make a postseason appearance. Maybe they both never make it. Seems like a worthwhile trade to me.
Yup exactly he is one of 3 or 4 guys who might work in the post season
The guys who run this team know what they are doing. Proven track record. Even without that established history, I like the moves.
There was no one worth mortgaging the future on. And honestly, with the added teams the playoffs are a complete crapshoot; the best team hardly ever wins anyway. I’m happy we didn’t do something like trade DeLauter for Kikuchi. I want to continue to be a competitive team year in and year out. Let’s roll.
I could not agree more, people who are mad they didn't make the big move where was the big move to make it didn't exist this year
Jeff Ellis is a top 10 writing prospect.... I hope we don't trade him.
thank you kind sir
Get ready to be thrilled with Cobb. I believe the Guardians don't make this move and cover $3.3 million without feeling good about his availability and effectiveness for the strech run.
Totally agree
Deadline was underwhelming but the market was massively inflated Because of other teams overpaying. But trading a prospect for a 37 year old with injury’s is kinda stupid.
Not if he comes back and pitches like himself. He was an all star just last year. To me, it’s well worth taking the shot.
It's risk reward for sure, but they got one of the 3 or 4 guys who could help in the post season
extremely underwhelmed. we're banking on a 36yr old who hasn't pitched this year and a 33yr old who hasn't pitched this year to help our rotation big time. I just don't like it. Even if they do ok, I doubt they're going to be able to pitch a lot of innings, which is what we need! anyway, I do like the Lane Thomas addition (you guys and Godcast helped me come around on that one). I just find it hard to believe we couldn't swing a deal for a healthy, average/below-average starter to eat some innings. I get that the price was probably too steep - but we're 23 games above .500 NOW. No guarantees we'll be in a position like this in the future.
They will be well rested at least.
I see what you’re saying. I also love that we are competitive year in and year out rather than going all in for one season and then sucking for years like so many teams do. I’m fine with what we did at the deadline.
Again look at the market not only was it costly but there weren't dudes out there who were good that were traded
Not much to see here. Lane Thomas is decent, but Alex Cobb is nothing special. If they make the playoffs, which I still don't see as inevitable, hard to see them winning more than one series at best. Same old story. I'd rather just buy one title like the Marlins than never see one and have this going on every year.
THIS. I used to be totally onboard with all of the allegedly smart moves the org makes, but not this time. They don't want to win. They're content to just be ok because the fans are content with just ok. Then they can look at stats and say bullshit like "The Guardians win% over an entire decade is elite" while never winning even a single ring.
There weren't big names to get
In a wide open season in which every contender has flaws, once again they did just enough to pretend like they did something. Useless non-additions. I love our players, but this org is an embarrassment. Jose is a prisoner on a team that will never win a ring.
Strongly disagree
Dolan tanked a promising season
cant blame them for a deadline when no one big changed teams
Tinfoil! Awesome! Lol
😁