Does this Counters-Chart make sense for new players? | Emongg Reacts
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I like how you can profile this player based on this chart. The author plays between bronze and silver. The author is a DPS main who usually plays Genji. The author rarely plays Tank, but when they do, they play Roadhog or Reinhardt.
A bronze/silver Genji main is 100% putting Moira on the Genji counters list.
Sounds like the kind of person I would hate to have on my team then.
Theres way too many winston appearances for this to not be someone who at least occasionally plays winston. If youre below masters winston is a character that either you play yourself or you never ever see.
@BagelBoi4000 that's cap, winston is a popular tank in most ranks
@@lukasg4807 Winston is one of the least popular tank in ranked generally, especially in the metal ranks. I one tricked Winston from gold to masters and saw max of 30 actual Winston players across the hundreds of matches I played. And most of those were recent matches in masters/diamond.
As a symm main, the dva one cracked me up so bad like there’s nothing in overwatch that makes me more happy than seeing a dva on the enemy team
I legit had someone pop into my stream once and argue with me about how DVa countered Sym, and not the other way around. Like, what? They cited this exact chart, which pretty much every high level person that's reviewed it has said is largely crap.
As a dva main I was confused as to how she counters sym😭😭 I deadass consider switching whenever I see a sym
I will pray for your mental health
I went through so much hate with D.va at the beginning of the game that I ended up having my main Sym period too
Yeah dva countering sym is crazy lol but honestly I think it’s more of a skill match up or a light counter. As a dva main I don’t mind the sym match up at all unless it’s paired with a zarya or Mei
6:13
Heard it here folks, Junkrat counters Junkrat
Not at all what he said lmao
The thing that bother me most is the Sojourn Widow being each other's counters. That's just a fancy way of saying they have an even match up against each other.
It's like that with a few of their picks
I feel like Kiri is countered by getting too aggressive and sustained 1v1s, so Mei might be a go to for that one.
As a Kiriko main I agree
@@yeetus076 LOL I love Kiri myself. But more about the mei m/u- not to mention being able to 2 tap versus her 3 tap, ability to force her Suzu via pressure on Tank and her primary can consistently track her despite the smaller hitbox. Yet another reason shimadas hate mei😂
@@michaelpurdy9165 Yeah all shimadas hate mei, especially killing her is a bit difficult. Three tap on the head instead of 2, her slowing effect is insanely irritating and because mei is so w i d e her head crit box is a bit more difficult than others...
No hero really counters Kiri tbh, maybe ball
@AegisEdge No hard counters but she's soft countered by chunky DPS, Ana/Brig and Pharmercy. Chunky DPS like Torb and Mei significantly reduce the value of her off angle poke and decrease her 1v1 potential. Brig shuts down flanks and should win the 1v1. Ana can force holding suzu just for nade with certain tanks. Pharmercy forces suzu on teammates easily with blue beam rockets and Kiri can't directly interact with it either, also can force healbotting. Spam in general is good vs Kiri because she can't jiggle peek corners to heal like Ana and Bap. She needs uninterrupted line of sight to heal and if there's tons of spam she will take too much damage trying to heal tank walking up. This situation can also force suzu early. Anyway if Kiri is annoying you I hope this helps you in the matchup 😂
When I first started playing ow around October 2016, it was conventional wisdom (at least at my low elo) that winston counters tracer and genji bc he doesn’t have to aim. At some point it became clear that those heroes, especially tracer, can easily outpace and/or avoid winston, and it’s not hard to beat him in the 1v1 matchup.
Honestly I understand the "Junkrat counters Dva" idea
In lower ranks (even down to plat where I am), when I play Junkrat and am up against a Dva, I find myself managing pretty well against her, because if they don't manage their matrix properly, I can completely shred them out of their mech.
Sure, in much higher ranks, Junkrat absolutely *isn't* a Dva counters, but lower down, Junkrat severely punishes bad DM usage, and if the Dva is trying to DM every little bomb that comes their way then you can get some pretty high value off of Junkrat
Same goes for Orisa, if an Orisa doesn't use her abilities properly I can just delete her as Junk. I seldomly feel like an Orisa is a good matchup against Junkrat, she can only punish me with a spear if I'm careless or in a bad position.
as a sombra main. i love the Junkrat matchup. as long as they aren't in a small room its a free elim
I feel like the moira pick against winston may be good because the heal orb can peel for a support. The good thing about winston is that when you dive a support (or any squishy) his bubble blocks heals from reaching that target. However the moira orb will pass right through the bubble, and will act as a peel. This isnt super effective though, as the orb is the majority of moira's kit, so she cant do much after using it.
One of the biggest strengths of Moira Vs Winston is that it is virtually impossible for him to kill her, with heal orb and her life steal she out heals him so he is sort of a non threat as well as having no stun which means especially during ult, Moira is free to ult whenever without fear of the tank stunning her out of it.
When I was a Lucio otp, I thought Lucio was a counter to Pharah and I'd try to kill her in the skybox. Eventually, I learned my lesson lol
Don't doubt the Lucio Mafia. A good Lucio can do it
They put Junkrat as a counter for nearly every tank, but not Ball or Doom, which both get shut down super hard if they get stuck in his trap.
Ye but good doom hard counters a junk bc of the stun
@@SWBPro ?? Junkrat is more than mobile enough to not get stunned by doom
@@joshhahahaha551 I don't think uve played in higher ranks, good doomfists position well enough that they will pop on u, punch u, and 2 tap u
@@SWBProyou could say that about almost any squishie tho? Junk is pretty good against doom because you can get trapped out of punch. Also something I don’t see mentioned is the boop junk has. You can easily miss you punch by getting booped just a little into the air
@willlongley34 but for those 2 specifically, it can be hard to notice the trap because you are travelling around the map at high speed, whereas a soldier 76 should easily see and destroy the trap.
I love how Symmetra doesn't counter anyone on this list, this was back when no one played Symmetra
As someone who was new to overwatch 2 and actually did use this chart i can confirm this is very confusing to new players
As a Widow main, most of those counters were accurate except I would swap Sojourn for Tracer and Reinhardt for Sombra. Widowmakers biggest enemies right now are flankers especially with the new sombra rework. Tracer and Sombra just BULLY Widow so hard rn. I’m in masters and I’m having trouble finding good positioning where I can NOT DIE to those two but also provide good support fire for my team
It might be by metal rank showing, but I actually think Hanzo is fairly good into Widow. Can out range even though very long shots are very hard to hit. Much better mobility to reposition/peak, especially while holding a charged shot. And to top it off, sonic arrow.
Like I said, could just be because I'm not playing cracked Widows.
I think jiggle peaking w hanzo can be super useful, but obviously standing out in the open holding the bow = gg
@@michaelpurdy9165 Definitely. Being able to sonic a widow, duck for cover then line up a headshot for when you peak is the big advantage to me.
@@stupidmonkey151 plus if you’re over 50m then falloff prevents her 1shot, hanzo can always get lucky.
The only way i can see hog countering bap is if the hog pulls him out of lamp if not NUH UH
As Moira playing into Winston, my playmaking goal is to throw an orb through the shield onto low-health characters to confirm kills and make bubble wasted. But this only works for low-level Winstons who will allow themselves to get too low and try to bubble one teammates.
Wrecking Ball and Winston counter Moira, but DVA doesn't?
Not this chart
this one is funny
Rein countering Widow as if she doesn't remove half his hp the millisecond he lets his shield down
obviously following lists like this isn't going to be wise (because it can be incorrect and you can learn to play well into bad matchups), BUT seeing this kinda stuff when i started out was useful simply because it taught me the concept of counters. knowing that there's another layer other than "shoot/heal better than enemy" can help ppl begin to gain game sense.
I just wanna say, when I heard this was from last year I immediately thought it was for OW1 not OW2, cause I didnt look at the chart fully
then I noticed JQ and I realized im joining the boomer squad
Cassidy is usually my go to tracer counter, not the other way around it's pretty easy to ping the tracer, throw your grenade to hinder her then kill her pretty easy
Bruh I’m a level 60 doom main and NONE of those four are counters haha
The doom counters: Hog, Cass, Sombra and Ana.
In fact, Genji gets hard counters by doom because you can hit him with any one of yo abilities when he uses deflect and you can keep up with him if he dashed away at low health
That would probably be my top 4 as well. Not so much counters but just abilities you have to consider before jumping in to delete their backline. Orisa and Brig have some denial to protect their team but usually won't lock you down enough to kill you.
Widow...on sombras counter list....uh...why
Pre rework she did counter sombra pretty well since sombra had to hack to get the full damage on enemies which gave widows a bit more time to actually turn and headshot if they were good enough. On top of that widow did have more health for a while so it was even harder for sombra. The only real way to deal with the widow back then was wait for her to sit still and hope that you can put enough bullets in her head before she had time to turn and hope she didn't have anyone pocketing her.
After the rework you just virus and put a few bullets into her and it's basically a free kill most of the time.
@@dukeyxxyz I disagree with this, as Sombra you just waited for widows grapple and picked her first every team fight. There was no real cooldowns you had to worry about so I wouldn't even hack the widow, youd get more damage from the surprise, just pop out of invis and kill her pre rework. It's even easier now with virus.
Outside of widows walls Sombra just wins the 1v1 9 times outta 10, unless caught by a spy check
@@WarriorOfStarclanyou basically had a 0.5 second window to hit a perfect 180 headshot. Now you have a 0.1 second window to hit it.
I think this was before they gigga buffed the divas defense matrix. There used to be a gap between the mech and the defence matrix. So it balanced her to where if you got in close she couldn't block it. Now there is no gap it's basically zarias bubble just on the front. So you just see divas fly in and bulldoze through people because they know they can't be hurt.
That was like 6 years ago
A lot of these counters seem to be more of a "if x kills you a lot, go y." Does Pharah counter Tracer? Not really, but she can't really interact with you much so you can just play the game.
As for Moira countering Lucio, I'd say it's true in low ranks. If you struggle to hit Lucio (weird movement + speed) Moira's auto-aim can allow you to kill him, and you can escape. Especially when you consider the Lucio pribably is missing most of his shots since it's low rank.
The music beats go hard here 8:11
Kinda agree on widow v hog tho. At open maps you cant make any space as hog cause she keeps headshotting you and you can do nothing
This is what I was thinking. A map dependant team match up. So, while Widow isn't destroying you, you should still probably switch off Hog.
Moira is good against Lucio in 1v1s because Lucio is a bit like Tracer where moving around to make the opponent turn their crosshair wide across the screen is a big part of his strength. Moira doesn’t need good aim to track Lucio’s movement which is a really big boon to her effectiveness against him in lower ranks. Lucio does more burst damage in theory but I’m gonna b real, when I see a Moira I run. Kinda like when I see a Symmetra as Dva.
The amount of pins I’ve prevented against rein as a junk is astounding I agree with his take and I do melt shields and while rein is inting I j flank
I actively go hog for bastion, just bait out turrent form and whe he's done he's toast
Did the guy even check his list again? How can he think A counters B if he ends up saying that B counters A?
I play Lucio a lot. I’d say brig, junkrat, cass, and sombra are good at shutting down his dives. You can play around it though. I struggle more when instead of trying to stop my dive they just run a undivable comp were I can’t do much.
Something I fundamentally dislike about charts and things like this is that you are forced to extrapolate *why* they’re a counter pick. Understanding why bastion and reaper absolutely are a counter to winton allows you to produce similar results with different characters. I wouldn’t run zarya to counter rein but if I understand why bastion is a counter, it tells me that I should melt his shield when I have bees. Things of that sort
Ball being countered more by Pharah than Mei or Sym?! Anything that messes with his move speed (and thus his fireball) is much worse. Honestly I have never really had a problem with Pharah. Reaper is scary but he can't keep up with you. Cassidy is much scarier.
At the time of the list tho Cassidy didn’t have hinder. That’s why he doesn’t counter ball or doom on this list.
I go Sym if I see a Dva or Winston. Dva cant do anything but run in a 1v1. And Winston provides a free Level 3 charge on beam anytime he jumps in by dropping his bubble. I personally can't say i've battled a JQ as Sym simply because there's better picks for that.
Not trying to be toxic but this list didn't really work for even the beginning of OW2 lol
Sombra is a much bigger echo counter than widow. I dive windows easily while if I get hacked I die most of the time
Ball gets countered by more than 50% of the hero roster 😔
Dude competitive overwatch taking notes from tf2 is insane to me
Kiri is very effective up close to an enemy
Junkrat thrives of that as well.... she definitely doesn't really counter him like thats
So Widow counters every hero in bronze-gold xD
This was before the distance nerf so they were most likely getting one tapped from across map so they couldn't react
Doomfist is so miserable to play rn bc hes countered by over a qaurter of the hero pool and him not being able to do a tank 1v1 in s10 (Doomfist headshot damage to tanks with armor does about 37 damage).
He's countered by
Tanks: Magua, Hog, Orisa, Zarya
Dps: casidy, Sombra, Echo (doomfist cant easily kill pharah or reapers)
Support: Ana, Baptiste, Kiriko, Briggete (Lucio is also able to burst aoe heal and boop doomfist away from dives)
Doomfist counters or is good against:
Dva, Reinhardt, zenyata, and ball, but if you're being forced to go on doomfist that probably helps the enemy team more then yours
Bastion against Ball...
You annoy him from the back until he uses his turret form and then you go away, now he's useless
Also Reaper you also just kinda roll away, he can't chase you
Phara also what
I'd say Mei, Hog,
And then... Tracer would be better (although Tracer can be debated since Ball can mark Tracer as much as Tracer can mark Ball), so maybe Junker Queen based comps (although that's more of a "JK will roll your entire team as you try to setup" than directly harming Ball himself)
(And Mauga, but since this thing is from before Ram, understandable it's not there)
the echo v hanzo matchup is preety even but I woudn't say widow counters her she's used as a dive hero a lot and with her mobility and quietness she can get close to her preety easily and land her combo while she's scoped in sombra is kinda 50/50 she can't heal back up once she goes to 50% so she preety much dies after that point since her trans can't really outspeed her flight but if she gets the jump on her hits her virus and uses trans right when she gets hit with bombs it's a free win I agree with the sojourn one tho a good sojourn will just farm your forehead in a 1v1 esp with a mercy which they most often play with
This chart brought to you by medium 500
I used to think brig countered rein, I’d hit counter pins and keep him away and smack him everytime he has his shield up, then I got to plat and seen burst heals and would get rolled by the reins 😂 beginning of ow 2
Pretty sure Winston vs Moira is a skill matchup. I don’t mind playing against Moira as Winston or against Winston as Moira.
Wow they must hate playing against Junkrat
15:00 i thought moira and winston counter dva because they have beam-like weapons lmao
As a ball main Reaper and baston should not be on that list. You must be talking about bronze balls . Pharah is definitely harder to deal with than both the dps I just mentioned
Fast foward a month and zen is a counter to everything
@1:00 tell me you instalock widow without telling me you instalock widow, easy mode
i mean technically widow counters every hero under 300hp
as an ashe main i’d throw dva in there instead of rein, matrix is just really annoying to deal with
Emongg I think your forgetting that when this list came out Junkrat was a top 2 dps in the game. Season 1-3 JunkRat was off two shots of Courvoisier and a perk 60
This person who made the list is low rank without a doubt by some of the choices they made anyway
Like dva counters sym or a bunch of other ones
I think the creator of the chart dont know that being annoying sometimes for a heroe is countering him, like yeah, reaper its a bit annoying for doomfist because of his fade but its no like he counter doom, this is just a kick example i see at the start
I feel like Sym (now) can be countered by a good D. Va. Also I think Tracer is a good counter to Mercy.
Honestly.. Im not a long time player.. started maybe 6mo ago.. 220 of my 300 hours are in Mystery Heroes.. It may sound stupid/silly but I think people should play more MH for this reason.. forces you to play with and against heroes/comps you wouldn't normally see and learn what actually works against what..
Honestly when I was brand new I was so overwhelmed by all the characters I just played mh. It was really good at helping me learn different characters kits
It's good for mechanics honestly
This counter chart was made when Roadhog still had his one shot. Hence why he is put as a counter to Soldier 76 and Baptiste.
Flats roasted the living shit out of this a year age
Half of them are ridiculous. I would love if you do a new one, who is actually correct
I like the moira pick against Winston, too much self sustain and they just fade away when dove.
Brig vs Rat is not a match up i enjoy to say the least. Not a counter but not enjoyable to play against
ana really could be everywhere :/
Ashe destroys Genji as well.. shoot him till he deflects, then burn him while he is deflecting (or burn before) and if you time it right while he is deflecting, you’ll hit the explosion without him deflecting your dynamite.
Kiriko is 100 percent a counter to junkerqueen everything about her kit. If your playing against a bastion if ur queen is smart and knifes the bastion and pull him back to u n kills the bastion but not in turret form.
Good vid bro
Not enough of the tank counters are anna. I play tank
(Not very well but shhhh)
Edit: this is a prewatch comment so isee tank player also agrees
Bruh Sombra does NOT counter mel, just wait out emp, DUH . If that's the case Sombra counters nearly everyone.
as a hog otp: reaper was, and is, free 1v1s. he can only win with a pocket, and had to hold wraith for your hook. it's a little harder to kill him post-rework, as you have to actually shoot before the 1shot or bait out wraith first but it's still a favourable matchup imo
nah it’s even
Genji, countered by: Woman
I love that we’re still using tf2 terms in overwatch in 2024. tf2 will never die
You can tell this list was made by a low elo player because they don't think support counters anything. Ana and kiriko should be on every tank at minimum plus all of the good support matchups across the roster. Genji shouldn't be set as a counter anywhere. He is in a perma state of being countered even by his best matchup.
no
it does not
So Sym counters no one? 😂😂
I don't mean to be toxic when I say this, but this list is lower metal ranks and even then some of these are still wrong.
Who made this list. So wrong
A bad player made this counter list. It looks cool though...but thats about it.
i was here
Its crazy just how wrong this list is lol
ana counters ana
Bullshit chart
why are you screaming?
Wtf tracer doesnt counter cassidy but cassidy counters her and half those were not even counters who made that shit
There are no counters. There are HARDER matchups and points of flaw in your skills. If counter swapping always worked, wouldn’t you win 100% of your games?
Edit: Watch one unranked to GM, on one character. You will see people who do not switch, win games because of their skill.
I'll repeat this to myself as a mantra next time I play Winton into Mauga, Bastion and Reaper.
What about reaper vs pharmercy hanzo dva ana
@@josewolf9884 skill issue
@@MASTERJHONOW Yeah one of the hardest pockets in the game, if u can’t kill their teammates it’s still a skill issue
Counter-swapping does always work, it's just not the only win condition, there's like 6 of them. It does increase change of winning. It's just countering isn't simple, counters change depending on map and matchup.