In this episode, I respond to the most common critique of my conceptualization of frame as something that cannot be shared, namely: whether it's not possible for two people to create a mutually-constructed, egalitarian frame. Like socialism, this notion is associated with lofty ideals and noble sentiments, and -- like socialism -- it doesn't work like this in practice. I provide three reasons why this is the case. Social Media Facebook: facebook.com/profile.php?id=100090053889622 LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/orion-taraban-070b45168/ Instagram: instagram.com/psyc.hacks Twitter: twitter.com/oriontaraban Website: oriontarabanpsyd.com Orion's Theme: th-cam.com/video/WrXBzQ2HDEQ/w-d-xo.html Thinking of going to grad school? Check out STELLAR, my top-rated GRE self-study program based on the world's only empirically-validated test prep system. Use the code "PSYCH" for 10% off all membership plans: stellargre.com. Become a Stellar affiliate and earn a 10% commission for every membership purchased by a new student you conduct into the program: stellargre.tapfiliate.com. GRE Bites: www.youtube.com/@grebites4993 Become a Psychonaut and join PsycHack's member community: th-cam.com/channels/SduXBjCHkLoo_y9ss2xzXw.htmljoin Book a paid consultation: oriontarabanpsyd.com/consultations Sound mixing/editing by: valntinomusic.com Presented by Orion Taraban, Psy.D. PsycHacks provides viewers with a brief, thought-provoking video several days a week on a variety of psychological topics, inspired by his clinical practice. The intention is for the core idea contained within each video to inspire viewers to see something about themselves or their world in a slightly different light. The ultimate mission of the channel is to reduce the amount of unnecessary suffering in the world. #psychology #relationship #dating
Every one of my three major relationships lasted more than a decade, one of them was 18 years and probably doesn't count because we started in high school. I was never married and only lived with one of them and that was the 18 year one. From what I remember of the other two, I was the one who was accommodating one of them and the other accommodated me. Neither one of those made me happier than the other but both of them left me, in keeping with the 80% statistic.
The title is wrong if you take it too literally or too symbolically. Do think practically - what do you really know about sailing? When a 34 feet yacht is crossing the ocean it might take about 3 weeks or more, and you might be two, three or four people on board - you take turns to be the captain, so that all can get enough sleep, which is essential for the survival of all on board. Women and men can sail like this, taking turns, but only if the men respect the women, or it stays a one time crossing. Taking turns is otherwise a really good life-lesson, not bad at all!
lol, socialism is a result of the success of capitalism as much as capitalism was only made possible by the age of global empires that feudalism created. You're a joke.
@@DNA350ppm Navy sailor here. What you're referring to is called "standing the watch." As a watch stander, your job is to make sure the ship sails in accordance with the route already decided on by the captain. The captain leaves a set of instructions every night for you to follow. If you are unsure of what to do, you call the captain. Standing the watch does not make you the captain. If it did, then what's to stop you from saying "you know what, I know we've been going this way for the past 3 days, but we're gonna turn around and go the opposite direction instead." Then the next shift's "captain" decides to go in a completely different direction, and before you know it you've gone on a circle and have run out of supplies. So no, your analogy doesn't hold water (pun intended) and it seems clear that you don't know anything about sailing either.
The masculine frame will always be the best base for a relationship to function. What I’ve come to realize is that it doesn’t matter that women say they want to share equal frame, they are far more loyal to their emotions, than the actual relationship itself, which inherently puts the relationship on constant shaky grounds. It’s up to the man to set order and structure with the masculine around the feminine. That way, the feminine is less prone to being chaotic, with the trust that there’s a healthy masculine surrounding it.💯
Women are more loyal to their emotions than they are to the relationship, that's a good way of putting it. I remember Orion made a video about this, can't remember the titel though. Maybe "Women treat relationships like jobs"?
Had a chick spend the night last night claiming she was tired and would immediately go to sleep. She was emphatic about it. She stayed up to 4am with me when prior it was 10pm. Most everything she said she didn’t do. Typical. And no I didn’t press her to stay up. All tests of strength ect ect ect
Excellent, as usual. Describes my failed 20 year marriage. Once my feminist "equal partner" made more money than me, she perceived herself as oppressed by my "dependency", even though she got support (pausing my career/interests to raise the kids) to do her "dream job". I was sincerely happy for her success, she felt taken advantage of. The mindset of score-keeping that comes with "shared frame" egalitarianism is deadly to relationships. "Unequal", complementary roles is definitely the way to go, in my painfully-arrived-at opinion.
As a group wome are net tax burdens and recieve unconstitutional Affirmative Action in universities and the workplace, violating the equal protection clause of the 14th amendment to the U.S. Constitution. Race Affirmative Action is being looked at but not gender, yet and Ukrainian women are being drafted. Question: did she get child custody? (90%...family court is corrupt and unconstitutional.)
@@danielademide Child alienation goes both ways and 15k to start babysitting? What benefits women is good what and what doesn't is bad. Ideally, they'd both take leave and babysit together until the kids are grown.
In my opinion, a man should never depend on anyone, especially a woman. It's unnatural and that's what made her feel oppressed. I hope you learned a valuable lesson and focus on your own self now. You deserve it.
so true! many years ago, my father sat me down and had a talk with me about relationships when I was about to get maaried. He explained to the the 'ship can only have one Captain", etc. I disagreed with him at the time. As life went on, I learned I was wrong
He should have started the teaching a lot earlier so you have the opportunity to see it all play out yourself as you get older. I thank my dad for that.
Its true, if your not acting like a leader why would the girl follow you. At the end of the day the girl wants to follow us. But we have to step up and be the "captain" or leader she needs from us.
Dating is like partnered dancing. You can only have one lead. You can't have both lead, and you also can't have both follow. Now, there are certainly times where a woman can take the lead, but it should always be temporary and out of love while a man re-centers himself and works to recreate a stronger frame.
I like that you used a muslim woman as a thumbnail, did you know that in the quran it is said that the man shall lead? (lead the frame as you said it).
Here we go again. I agree with the Doc. I almost entered my soul mate’s frame: Her house, her city & state, near her kids and grandkids, and over 1,000 miles from my kids. I was to be the add-on to make her life complete-but I was paying the greatest price to make that happen. All the best intentions in the world can’t overcome the pull of gravity. No matter how hard we tried, nothing was going to change the fact that it was her frame. I didn’t really understand this at the time, but I just couldn’t go through with it-as much as I love her and want to be with her. As the Doc said, it might work in theory but not in practice. I wish it weren’t so, but it’s true.
she didnt love you as much as you loved her. hard to hear (ive been there) but she loved controlling you (or trying ) and that cant ever work for a truly masculine man which is why todays woman is jacked on mental meds and men are being injected w soy in their daily diet
This is like the rule of diminishing returns The more time one spends making a relationship functional, the less time one has for enjoyment of the relationship.
@@Michael-rm1bxdysfunctional means it doesn't function well E.g. emotional regulation - if people have trouble regulating their emotions (dysfunctional) it makes it harder to get things done, because time is taken up with soothing, self-soothing, reassurance, managing anxiety, etc and THEN doing the thing. Conversely, if people ate good at regulating their emotions there may be close to zero time spent managing their negative emotions (anxiety, frustration, etc) and they can get more done. If someone needs retail therapy when they are anxious, they will have less money, I.e. this is dysfunctional. Same with turning to alcohol, tobacco, bad food, etc for emotional regulation - they reduce your money and health, which lowers the function of yourself and your life. If someone is dysfunctional in terms of financial management, they will struggle with finances. This will reduce their possibilities and options in the rest of their life compared to if they were more functional. And so on and so on. So it is much better to be in a relationship with high functioning people than dysfunctional people. Of course, you have to be high functioning yourself, so you have to be willing to accept the options available to you, given your current level of 'functioning'
Great examples as always. Women say they want total equality, but we don't see total equality when it comes to divorce. We don't see many men divorcing female doctors and taking half, do we?
Nor do we see them running dates, or giving sex / seduction fantasies on their own or them thinking about their partner in a deeply “foot in the other shoe” type perspective ect ect. No equality in divorce and most women with big money don’t give their guys anything if they have a stay at home dad type. I’ve seen it a few times and it is actual finacial abuse. They are not givers when it comes to cash and things like that unless you have jigalo vibes with them.
I like that you rayan used a muslim woman as a thumbnail, did you know that in the quran it is said that the man shall lead? (lead the frame as you said it).
Literally my mother, and sh gave him more than half just to make the negotiations faster. The lawyer said women often do this, losing out just to avoid dragging things out.
@@griffydz1789 - That thumbnail is very appropriate given that the natural order of different expectations from men and women still largely exist in the Middle East and North Africa. Most if not all organized religion cast the man as the lead or head.
I used to walk around the neighborhood and I always saw the same guy sitting in a lawn chair every evening, drinking a beer and watching his big screen TV in the garage. Sometimes his wife was in the garage with him. Sometimes she was watching a different TV in the house by herself. Everyone needs to have their own place to be captain some of the time.
Thanks Orion. The videos on frame are very useful. More videos helping men deal with the guilt and manipulation women use to keep you in their frame would be really helpful. I've realized women are not the Disney princesses society has perpetuated. But can be brutal uncaring resource gatherers and users of men. Unfortunately I have given away most of my adult life figuring that out. Thanks for what you do.
For a 21 year old guy in a 3 year relationship trying to fix the mistakes of my 18, 19, 20 year old self (mostly coming from allowing things to be how I know they ought not to be, eg sharing frame (failing to)), this channel is just about my only properly useful guide. Thank you.
Given that women tend to date hypergamously, e.g. they prefer older, wiser, more knowledgeable, more exciting, more interesting, more dominant, and more wealthier guys, it makes sense for the woman to step into his frame. Consequently, it is the job of the man to cultivate a frame so superior it is worth her while to leave her frame.
Unconstitutional Affirmative Action gives women the ability to out earn men, while still being less qualified. Women are the majority of voters and don't register for Selective Service a felony if men don't, both laws violating the equal protection clause of the 14th amendment to the U.S. Constitution. Your individual masculine frame is set against her institutional feminine frame, on your dime...if she leaves the state will make you pay her lawyer up front. 60% of mothers are single and raise all the bad people. I'm a lion not a hyena.
Plus like bones we heal faster while we’re younger. Going through shit like this in 40,50s, etc I’ve seen men never recover. Ego deaths are just easier to recover from when you’re young.
This is very important, I had an 11-year relationship trying to make this dynamic work, and it was like having an eternal roommate or a friends with benefits. This especially came true when decisions were trying to be made towards the end and I was really pushing asking questions on "where do we go from here, should we get married, should we had kids; I want to do XYZ, what do you want?" I should have known better when the whole relationship I was getting I don't knows and a lot of news on things that I actually wanted to do and wanted to push the issue on. She was trying to control frame and was not a good captain, didn't know what she wanted, I would've been miserable. 👍 learn to judge properly and make decisions boys, judge by actions and weigh the past and present along with if they learned and are a different person and live a good life. Don't try to change someone or wait forever and sacrifice your life. Choose wisely. One last thing! The sex was great and plentiful until we moved in together; look out for love bombing boys! If she helps you forget about arguments and to forgive her for BS by making you blow a few loads and isnt actually sorry and takes action to knock off the BS, look out for that! Or just enjoy it for what it is/was and get out! I'll spare the details here, but yea, sex is for sure a powerful tool especially when they have that subject dialed in and know what you like, look out for that!
@@forgottenfuryan in general this statement works, but in my family I think my grandfather's were whipped unfortunately.. but we'll apply this to my great grandfathers😅. Is what it is man.
@@jrtama5 Yeah, housing costs doubled every year since women unconstitutionally got the vote without registering for Selective Service, a felony if men don't. Oh, well, I guess we'll all just rent at a premium, no big deal.
Thank you, Orion. Men need to take notes here because this is where we construct a goal-oriented life. If we don't, our Frame will not only attract lower quality partners but puts us at risk of losing our purpose entirely.
Love this channel, I always find it odd how there are crucial things in life that we don't even consider giving a brief thought at, such as topics like these. Sounds nice to be co-captains. Does not work. Great content as always, sent a thanks and joined. Cheers!
I respect him less. As soon as you start to get political these days you immediately eliminate a large part of your potential fanbase. Everyone is entitled to their political views, but it also says something about his other view on things. A lot of them I agree with, but his casual bashing just made me aware of his whole world view, which might not be very flexible or open to other ideas.
100% true. My LTR started going down the drain when I stopped leading (because she stopped following). I should have called it quits right then and there but tried to save the relationship. Big mistake.
Excellent video! It is so true that both will be tired of making sure things are "equal" in all aspects. When women openly admit they want a man more stable, more competent, more financially stable , and stronger than them, they must therefore concede to the logical importance of stepping into his frame than the other way around. With great power (captain of the 'relation'ship) comes great responsibility. The ugly truth is that women are far less likely to be responsible with that power, because they refuse to be held accountable the same way the man would be the other way around.
Not only that, but society and other people will hold him accountable (even if he's not the captain of the relationship) while simultaneously helping her flee from accountability. There's absolutely no incentive for her to do the right thing.
I've also learn the hard way to NOT give your power away. As men, our time, resource, energy, SELF CONTROL & Power, are our most powerful tools. Once we give away too much power, the scales tip in the feminine frame and everything blows to shiet.
In my experience, women either start by saying the want to be equals or quite a few even want a more traditional relationship where the man is the leader. But I also see that when the woman doesn’t get what she wants, as in the man didn’t decide the way she wanted, all of a sudden she goes from him being in charge to being equals or more likely her deciding she needs to be in charge because she feels she can’t trust his decisions. It’s not that he can’t make good decisions or lead, it’s that she wants her way no matter what.
I’m a happily married father and husband. I’d say that a working household requires compromise. A great relationship and household kind of works like a company. You have shareholders who own the assets. You have an executive team who run things. You have team who implement. And stakeholders who benefit or are impacted. A great company is rarely an authoritarian CEO who makes all decisions and then has everyone do their bidding. Exec teams discuss and solve things together. Ultimately the CEO has to make some tough calls occasionally but the majority of the time, the CMO makes marketing decisions, the CFO makes finance decisions the COO runs the day to day and the CEO is doing big deals and setting the direction of travel (with the team enrolled). In a family the couple are the shareholder (often 50:50) and one is the CEO and the other is the COO. They have support structures and the kids are the team and stakeholders. To me this model of thinking works best.
Thank you for your comment. I'm reading the rest of the comments and I'm getting scared over the amount of authority men require in order to be pleased. I never disagreed over leaving the "frame" job on the man, as I am traditional myself and I witnessed this growing up, so I find it normal . But there is a difference between guiding the family and being a dictator. From the comments here, most guys find a perverted joy into turning themselves in dictators. They use as excuses that many women out there abuse men, financially and emotionally, so the only viable solution is to turn women into slaves and decide what they will do everyday for the rest of their lives. Otherwise there is a chance to cheat, lie, raise another man's kid or worse.. So the solution is men to make EVERY decision . You want to work? Nah... You want kids? Nahh... You want to go out with your friends (and no I don't mean in clubs, I mean at a coffee shop in day light without flirting with anyone) NAHHH... . I can only be terrified over marrying such a person, being afraid that if I get cheated or he decides to leave me in the future for any reason , I will have no voice and no authority to protect my rights and the rights of my kids, since according to this "frame theory" or more correctly the abuse of "the frame theory" that most guys propose in the comments, I will be stripped over everything slowly over the years of our marriage. The outcome? If the guy cheats on me for example, he leaves me with nothing and he continues his life happily with money and new woman.And before men say that wives get 50% no they don't. In my country they get 30% but with a good lawyer or a good accountant u can leave them with zero.
This is wild comparison and nobody said anything about being a CEO and making every decision! You misrepresented everything he said and wrote completely pointless comment
@@mariakal8884 Who said they want to be dictators and women should be slaves? Complete misrepresentation! Clearly since feminism went mainstream family unit fell apart
I can’t tell if you have any female viewers/commenters but I would like to say I find your content super helpful! I’m a clinical therapist working with men who have been shattered by betrayal or who are caught in a “Catch 22.” I see just as many women who are in emotionally abusive relationships/marriages. It appears there has been little guidance at the onset of picking a partner. Most come from dysfunctional families, possibly some complex trauma, and are just repeating patterns and ignoring red flags. People need education on how to find a quality partner and not let their emotions and libido override their rational thinking. Love is not enough! There has to be respect, humility, and honest and effective communication… characteristics that seem to be dwindling in our culture.
As someone who most likely to fit only in their own frame, I can extremely relate to this video. Had to always cut ties before even having them knotted because I am terrified to put myself in someone's frame and also too eager not to lock someone else in mine.
@@SlayerofzulmakI didn't hit my head against the wall but you apparently did. Lol The video clearly explains why it won't work for two people to share a "frame" and the only way to make it work is when one party complements the frame provided by the other, which also needs to be well constructed and presented. Knowing I cannot provide the suitable frame and fearing to share someone else's is how I relate to this.
This channel is so important, like a father very few of my Gen Z had. My Pastor started a training course for married men because of the absolutely terrible crisis going on, this guy goes pretty much along the same things in the course, it’s called the family captain.
Great food for thoughts! Here's what I think. In your models, people benefit from what they get, not what they give. However, in reality there is happiness in both: sometimes I give, sometimes I get, and I appreciate the variety of experience. Also, everyone has several frames, several identities. The best relationships are those where each person can keep as many frames as possible from their previous single life. Exploring each other's frames is fun.
I really enjoyed this episode and can not wait until the next one. Also having gone through one of your older episodes I really benefited from the advice to stop doing the things that hurt you instead of starting new behaviors.
Really enjoy this channel because of how eloquently and logically Dr. Taraban describes solutions that most would consider "politically incorrect" or "socially not-the-norm". Great talks Sir. Thank you.
I find this very interesting in regards to organisations and projects as I didn’t want to be the leader, director or frontman yet when I took the mantle and made suggestions to my mates, we started moving forward with out music, when I took the initiative on school projects we got things done and when I suggested goals to my mates, they actually got things done, enjoying themselves, because someone was in charge, someone had a frame and the frame was way more beneficial than trying to be egalitarian
100% correct again. Relationships are always unequal, or lopsided (adored Vs adorer, from a prior video). And as you've said, people change in time. What was agreeable once, may not be agreeable 4 years down the road. So, even if each party drops their current frame to co-create a mutually created new frame, it very likely will not work, just ask divorce lawyers and your local municipal court. Consider unequal incomes. Another great video.
I have a true story that resonates with what you're saying about constant frame-balancing, around @6:00. My late wife's parents had 5 kids, and in order to be fair at Christmas, they made sure the gifts were fair. So if the budget was $30, and a kid got a gift for $25.93, there would be an envelope for $4.07 along with the gift. This didn't work all that well, though. Because sometimes one kid would get a cheap-but-large gift (like a beach ball), and another would get an expensive-buit-small gift (like jewelry). So there would be jealously. And kids often mistake a gift's size for its value. My point is: trying to make everything perfectly fair and even is ridiculous.
Fully agree both with this follow up and the original video about the concept of frame. I have personally been in both types of relationships. In my experience, things were possible and good in the “man frame” and led to complete dysfunction when I was pushed to be in the woman’s frame.
Two frames 1. Peacetime frame= anyone can be anything or be in any frame. 2. Wartime frame=assume “traditional”gender roles. Men fight and die, and women raise kids.
60% of mothers are single and raise 80% of inmates and 85% of children with behavioral disorders. A masculine frame in that paradigm would need to be quite load bearing, even beyond what is natural.
"talking about the relationship is probably one of the least interesting things you can do in a relationship".....says a man. Most women I think would disagree. They loooovvveee talking about the relationship. It's one of their favourite topics.
I agree with this for the most part, but the problem is this if you dominate the relationship too much, it breeds resentment.... you have to compromise to some degree, otherwise that person is not going to be invested into the relationship. If your doing everything you want to do as a man, she's not doing anything that she wants and is just going along with it... eventually she is going to resent you, and she is not going to give af about the relationship... she could turn this against you and start using you. Good leaders compromise to some degree, for their best employees.
@@Alix-yu8rq -- At a company, employer provides with money and protects (with health benefits) for the services of the employees. If the husband is the primary earnerm then wife is like an employee because husband provides and protects for her services (sex, children, chores). Women treat their marriage as jobs anyway. Hypergamy means wives leaving current job (husband) for better job (a new richer man).
The fact that Doc has to teach this shows how neutered western men have become. I can’t phantom my father quitting his job so my mother could take her dream job in another city. RIP Daddy.
You can only have good confidence a married man isn't emasculated is if they're in their 70s. In couples younger than 50 it's pretty much unheard of that he hasn't been castrated and he's on a leash. I can only think of three marriages/LTRs where the men under 60 lead with no quarrel from their wives. I've similarly found that women flat out refuse to accept my boundaries and will have a tantrum or sulk if they do, then they leave to find a simp with no backbone.
If he/she cares more about a job/career than fostering the relationship, building a life together, starting a family, building a communal legacy... relationships aren't for that particular individual. After best efforts to negotiate, if you're still forcibly stuck with that decision by your partner, it's probably better to leave him/her and let him/be to their own individual journey rather than to sacrifice your own needs and long term best interest goals by subjugating to your other's individual desires/goals that don't take you into consideration whatsoever. Different horses for different courses but at least you'll retain your own soul and just wish each other the best.
You raise an interesting topic (regarding men today). If I may add some things to consider: Most men (throughout the history of humanity, even pre-civilization) have not been/are not the top tier, nor are they leaders. Most men in general are followers (and I do not mean that in any negative sense). Now with that being said, most men, when given solid leadership with legitimate "men"/"alphas"/"high-value"/whatever term you prefer...most men will do a fair job of emulating their leaders. Average men will behave more like strong men when the strong men lead. But when the strong men leave leadership to go do other things, the average men will behave more like weak men. Take away: As society has lost true male leadership, the average man has had less and less opportunity to observe and fall in line with how leaders behave. You can take average men and lead them towards being well-adjusted and strong frame holding...IF there is sufficient role models/leadership. I could spend hours discussing how we arrived at this point, but for now I'll just leave it as is. The vast majority of men, when lacking strong leaders/models, will default to more "beta"/"simp" -like behaviors.
2:58 I’m hearing that frame must have an owner. Frame must not be shared. It’s not communal. Now, women are failing to see how this works. When she really is smitten over you, she will GLADLY enter into and DESIRE your frame as the man. Whatever you want, she wants. If you are still having a debate about it then you’re dealing with a masculine woman or at the very least, a woman that doesn’t want to submit to that particular man - she doesn’t think you are the best she can do. In that case, the man should walk or start creating leverage to allow himself to walk without getting wrecked. Make her choose, fellas. Have standards - have boundaries. Pink and blue jobs. Pink and blue roles.
That’s all great, but her perspective WILL shift over time. If you have to make sure you can walk at any time, it’s no more than a business relationship anyway. If you can detach to that degree, why would you want it in the first place?
SIR,YOURE HERE ON THIS CHANNEL TO LEARN. YOU MIGHT BE WITH A WOMAN WHO DOESN'T UNDERSTAND HOW RELATIONSHIPS TRULY WORK. AS THE CAPTAIN, LEADER ,YOU SHOULD BE A TEACHER ALSO. BUT YOU CHOOSE TO WALK. WITH THAT ATTITUDE OF WALKING. I BET YOU SPEND A LOT OF TIME WALKING. AS YOU CAN SEE, IM A WOMAN. AND UNFORTUNATELY FOR ME,I WAS RAISED BY A SINGLE MOTHER. NEVER HAD THAT MALE FIGURE ROLE MODEL. SO IM LEARNING FOR MYSELF. SURE,ID LIKE A MAN TO LEAD. BUT IM DEFINITELY ABLE TO TAKE CARE OF MYSELF BECAUSE THAT'S ALL I HAVE EVER KNOWN AND DONE..SURVIVING LIFE.JUST SAYING
Dang caught this one right as it got posted. Just wanna say you're providing an amazing service here Dr. and I thank you for it. I remember spending a lot of time trying to find a therapist/psychologist who could speak to me from the perspective of the masculine experience and ended up really dissapointed. It's great to see someone talk about these subjects in a calm, and (from my perspective) objective manner that helps me understand the building blocks of social dynamics and my own response to them. Wish you all the best and will continue watching.
One observation I have seen is that u often have to take risky decision in life and also own responsibility when things go wrong. Women oftenly shy away from taking blames. Hence a big problem.
The frame that controls the direction of the relationship is always the most restrictive, even if the benefits seem to go towards the partner who isn't setting the frame. A trophy wife is restricted to playing that role even if she seems to be the major beneficiary.
Great informative video as per usual. For people who are uncertain on who the captain is in their relationships, it might be an idea for a future video to create a questionnaire?
Man's value is largely based on his behaviour, so compromising his lifestyle in order to suit the relationship is lowering his value, therefore the relationship after a while isn't profitable for a woman anymore. Meanwhile the woman's value isn't affected by compromising on her decisions, so she can very well adjust to the male frame and even profit from that.
Well said! I've thought that a woman would benefit from supporting her husband, making sure he knows she believes in and supports him, offering her counsel, but letting him lead. Such a man will be more likely to thrive and lead at work and at church also. She and her children will benefit from his learned skill, income, and spirituality. On the other extreme, if she beats him down and believes he is worthless, the only way he will become successful is without her.
@6:52 are there any pilots in this threat who can verify that pilots and co pilots dont switch mid flight? i leniencies that i read about what pilots actually do mid flight would be scary to some. especially that most people dont know just how equipt planes actually are even with out someone manning it for a few minutes.
There one girl who used to come to my work and she was always bitter toward men and the one phrase she used to always repeat over and over is "No man is going to be the star of MY show. In MY life, you play the background!!!" Needless to say, it's been over 10 years and she has yet to find a man that is willing to step into her frame. Her constant combativeness has rendered her undateable & she still can't figure out why.
I have gone on over 300 First dates....and currently single for past few years. I can tell you that today's woman constantly believes a man is to protect, provide but also be sitting in the passenger seat and see her as the prize. I will not enter a relationship like this and today's woman is almost exclusively unable to offer this unless they are just out of high school, raised in a traditional Christian family w a great father relationship and low social media. Not much hope catching a girl like that at 25.+. Feminists have destroyed the nuclear family I was literally told a year ago by a single mother that if I wanted a relationship w her, I would need to be silent in the raising of her child and was only to provide and she was in charge of the family. Lol. She makes 28k a year cutting hair and I make 300k a year and im supposed to just sit not in the passenger seat but in the back seat and cheer her on but provide a million dollar home, an Audi, pay all the bills , fund vacations all for the privilege of having her and another mans seed in my life lol I lol but it's sad....it's really sad to watch. They hurt themselves and the rest of society because they have bought into the feminist lies
same experience too, about 100 first dates and western women in canada are adversarial towards men, selfish and not kind at all. Even the christian ones have slept around, I'm not even sure what to do now. Church hopping and online dating filters with traditional women, let's see if this works
As someone who's been on 200+ first dates, your comment is 1000% spot on. They want you to be their EVERYTHING, and in return, you get nothing and if you're unhappy about that, it's because you're narcissistic. I've gotten good at this game though. Be nothing more than what they deserve, and when it's time to let them go, trick them into losing interest by being nice and respectful to them at all times. They dry up quick and lose interest, and you come out looking like the good guy and she doesn't slash your tires or harass you because she thinks she's the one who lost interest in you. It's a win-win in this society unless you want a family. Then it's L's across the board
@@tdaye6978 Yeah, its really bad out here . BTW I didnt mean it as a flex but to clarify that I am not someone who cant get dates and is sitting in his moms basement ;) It kills me because I truly WANT a family and have sacrificed hard to provide and am Christian so not into hookup culture and its really rough to find a woman thats even close to what I would consider for marriage
@@AverageAngel Yeah. I know a few church girls I would normally consider for a relationship but they racked up bodies and Im not going to save them . But PLENTY of men at church say they dont care about Body counts and would marry high body count. Im like wth....you guys dont understand the consequences and risk. They just think short term and caution to the wind
I think that you are missing the perspective from the other side. Many men have given “frame” as you call it to women and it’s been successful. I would say my wife and I have a equal frame where we both lead in different ways and it works very well. She works at a hedge fund and came from a well to do family, I look after the kids and work part time from home. I moved for her and it works very well. Don’t knock what works for others I guess.
You forget that women can marry and have kids with men they consider beta's, even though they still desire the alpha. So either you bring something to the table you're not mentioning or she is hanging around other guys behind you're back, as women cannot control their hypergamy. E.G. she will always be more attracted to a man that makes more money then her/you, regardless of the circumstances. I encourage you to check out the other videos Dr. Taraban has published to see what I'm talking about.
@@masterTigress96 We have a very strong, emotionally open relationship so I do not worry about any infidelity . The problem with these videos is that in the real world these 'rules' do not always apply, Working your whole life around these red pill 'truths' is causing more harm than good and I see it in the younger generation of men. Nice in theory but not always accurate or representative of the real world. I always say you attract what you are. If you are an insecure womaniser, good luck trying to find a secure grounded, emotionally available woman.
[22] Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. [23] For the husband is head of the wife, as also Christ is head of the church; and He is the Savior of the body. Ephesians 5:22-23 NKJV
This started to rear its' head, the MOMENT I moved into a new house.....she (who didn't put up a single dime in the purchase), was upset that I didn't let her choose which bedroom was hers.
It should also follow from the adored/ adorer dynamic. The adored should set frame. However, pilots are a terrible analogy. They actually switch frames. Aviation has a concept of pilot in command. Captain stays captain, but that doesn't mean he is in command at all times. This is because pilots need command experience and they might need rest. Often, the second pilot is fully qualified to be in command - that is he doesn't require supervision. Sometimes, the second pilot is not qualified and is being trained. In which case he would be acting like he is in command (technically, it's pilot in command under supervision or PICUS for short). And this is unavoidable on long distances where pilots rotate. The captain might actually be asleep in a bunk while second and third pilot fly the aircraft. And it could actually be the third, most junior pilot who is in command and second pilot is supporting him. The third pilot might have over ten thousand hours of experience. And they will transfer command several times during a flight. If something serious happens, a senior pilot might take command. Although it would be unusual to change seats. So, if a captain wakes up during an emergency, he might stay out and just direct verbally if necessary. Captains typically have more experience, but it's more a question of employee hierarchy.
Great content again! Just have one thing to add, something my grandfather (WW2 vet) said!: All men are created equal but the problem is that they don't stay equal.
“Egalitarian frame” must have come from a woman, lol. Which means that by accepting this as a concession, you’d be entering into the feminine frame… aka you’d be in your wife’s frame.
Right, you're already compromising half your frame, and the other half will be coerced out of you with manipulation tactics that pretend you had a say in the matter. Which, by the way, also serves as culpability so she can blame you when she wants something else.
A.K.A. entering relationships women who have kid(s), rooted with a 100k + house, dogs/cats, all compounded with idealisms that go against hierarchical order and structure, OR she not having none of that, but desire all of that, and looking for a man to "help" her get all of that. NEVER enter that frame... disqualify/kick her off the ship before going on the voyage.
Men need to understand that most of the times a woman says something silly like this, she's usually testing. Women will do that with almost everything. Just don't give them what they "want", no matter how "serious" they are about it. It's always a shit test. If you do what she wants, she won, you lost. And she's not gonna respect your masculinity.
5 years in a relationship now, started great at 18; but unfortunately it has devolved over time. The fact that i watered down my own desires with the goal of seeking harmony, has ironically resulted in the degradation of my current romantic relationship, even though in my eyes every concession i made was to "find middle-ground", i ended up abdicating frame to her, not immediately, but slowly and steadily. The question is: is this reversible, or is it doomed.
It is the height of sanity to recognize as reality that as humans age as they grow and mature over time they " should" arguably change. Change is necessary in healthy individuals as they mature. Conversation about the healthy and changing nature of any given relationship is also necessary to ensure a couple continues to grow in ways that are amenable and meaningful to both parties in a relationship. Furthermore, if things/changes seem to slow the growth of either party in a couple this seems easily and rightfully part of the cost of the relationship?? It's seems to me always good to have someone around who knows you and whom you trust to tell you the sometimes unvarnished truth about yourself so that I do not delude myself in to believing something that is not true about myself.
Agree with most of your points, however airplane's pilot and co pilot actually do switch responsibilities halfway in the flight. Those positions are called pilot monitoring and pilot flying.
Okay but ultimately the captain is the captain right ? Sometimes you can give your woman power depending on the situation and let’s say she’s more capable of carrying out the task. Let’s think about decorating the house. Women are typically better therefore you can say “babe you manage this part” ultimately youre giving her power but you’re still the captain
If one of them thinks he is so much higher in rank that he is infallible, and is not capable of listening properly nor delegating - and the other is so downtrodden s/he cannot get points carried through, then they easily end in disaster. If one of them needs to be so cocky, the whole plane is in danger. Or the ship as might be - just think of the macho captain of "Costa Concordia" with very bad judgement both in details and in principle. It was his frame, and it was destructive.
This is to balance workload by sharing the stresses (and satisfaction) of actually flying the aircraft. But it doesn't tell the whole story as to how cockpit culture has changed over the last 25 years. After a number of notable air disasters in the 90s and early 2000s, mostly in East Asia, where authoritarian ex-military pilots, who had transitioned into roles as airline captains, dominated commercial cockpits so much so that junior officers were unwilling to question questionable decisions made by their superiors, modern commercial pilot training, incorporating Crew Resource Management (CRM), mitigates such asymmetry and flying is now much safer. I don't know how pertinent this is to romantic relationships and maybe this isn't one of the doctor's best metaphors. Or, perhaps, we can learn from CRM how to manage our marriages more effectively. Furthermore, in Jungian archetypes, "The Ruler inspires us to take responsibility for our own lives, in our fields of endeavor, and in the society at large. If he/she overcomes the temptation to dominate others, the developed Ruler creates environments that invite in the gifts and perspectives of all concerned." Marriage culture too has changed as there are most often two incomes in any household, and so with shared workload there must be more acceptance of the other's input, and therefore responsibility. Still, every flight, like every marriage, has an objective, and the crew, under the direction of the captain, better be agreed upon the heading or else they're in for a bumpy ride. And so maybe the analogy does hold water after all, but with modern aviation safety in mind. We can hold frame, but be less domineering, like modern captains, and accept inputs, from our cohort in the cockpit, that serve (only) a smoother flight towards a final destination.
My father was from a poor background and married my mother who was affluent. My father steered the ship and faithfully managed my mother's fortune and our family for 57 years. My father's secret? He learned how to steer the ship while letting my mother believe she was the one actually doing it, he never got any credit for this and still remained humble and self effacing until he passed away last month at 94. I am trying to use the same technique in preserving my own marriage of 20 years now.
Having recently had a stroke and finding my ability to be independent severely limited I am in fear of losing my relationship as I am just dead weight. It’s just a matter of time until I am cast adrift because I have limited value.
I'm sorry for your issue. I had a surgery and was in a ward with stroke patients who had the same surgery. Our nurse had as well for yet a third reason. Exercise is the fountain of youth.
The only solution to that problem is to choose a woman who's self image is of someone who does not give up on a relationship when times get tough. Of course the way out of this cognitive disonance is to assert that you are the one failing in some way, e.g. not trying hard enough. There are actually many, many women who will stay with a man in such circumstances but, unfortunately, it's usually too late to change horses if you've got one of the others and your dating value is 0. Commiserations 😞
Hopefully your partner wouldn’t do that. Statistically speaking, women are more likely to stay with men who become disabled than men are to stay with a woman who becomes disabled. So, there’s statistically a stronger chance that she’ll stay with you. But this fear is really just something that Red Pill guys talk about. It’s not indicative of how real human relationships actually work. It’s just a bunch of weird formulas for male behavior. Now of course people can abandon people… because people are people. But my advice is to stop listening to Red Pill advice. It doesn’t account for the love and the attachment factor. And it’s just designed to create relationship anxiety for men and then simultaneously soothe that anxiety… thus creating an addictive loop.
@@TheDiamondNet Citation needed. Marriage, sex and childbirth rates are at all time lows and women file 80% of divorces with half of women by generation after the boomers being childless. Your soft cooing doesn't mean much.
This has been very enlightening. It makes sense why women never wanted to date me: when I'm honest with myself, I just don't want anyone else in my frame. Building a life for myself was already far too hard. Making accommodations to turn my frame into a two-seater would have been exhausting and inauthentic And there are no women who would ever want to share my authentic life. "Hey want to watch me work on a video game engine and then walk around for 3 hours thinking about neural networks and semiotics before we turn in and watch some TV shows that you will absolutely hate? Ahoy, sexy" 🚢
You completely misinterpreted what frame means. When an employee enters her boss's frame, it does not mean that the employee does whatever her boss does. It means, employee follows boss's leadership to do completely different things that her boss approves/wants her to do.
Question...is it possible for a couple to come together with an open heart and share the frame? Rather than coming together by the intellectual mind and super analyzing every moment lived together? Is it possible to come together in Love?
yes, but that isn't recognized here. The people being catered to here are incredibly immature, both male and female. Love and true mutuality is not a thing here. Totally beyond everyone here.
I think this is a powerful concept, but I used to refer to it as "compatibility". What I guess I mean by that is if two people are highly compatible, to the point where they have very similar frames, then the person who "yields authority" will generally be happy to do so, especially if it results in the more competent person in charge of constructing the frame. In some ways it is similar to the captain of a sports team. When the coach makes his own son captain, that seldom works well. But when the selected captain is the natural leader of the team due to competence and respect, such that if there were a vote that person would most likely be the choice, then it works well. Or as my dad used to put it: "Dance with the girls who like you."
Can someone explain to me in the case the man's lead is followed, how it can be guaranteed that the man won't take advantage of his lead. And if such case happens and he wrongs his woman, how the woman will be protected?
There are no guarantees here. People are weird, people are evil. People with options are constantly probed and may give in and cheat. But ask youself the question: Why TF did it work in the past most of the time? Because there was evolutionary pressure. And societal pressure/shaming. The latter is gone completely in the West now, but the former does not go away. If man and woman play the game right, it still works. But we all have been told lies. A lot. Your questions show that. Find the truth, better yourself and make the right decisions. That is easier said than done, especially for women, because the sexual revolution and the pill allowed them to do, what never before in history was possible: rack up bodycount from the age of 13 upwards. This early decision is so detrimental, that it shakes the foundation of our culture and society. Parents have lost it... since 3-4 generations. Marriage? A trap for men. And men compare outcomes on the internet now and refuse to play that rigged game anymore. Good luck to you!❤
In this episode, I respond to the most common critique of my conceptualization of frame as something that cannot be shared, namely: whether it's not possible for two people to create a mutually-constructed, egalitarian frame. Like socialism, this notion is associated with lofty ideals and noble sentiments, and -- like socialism -- it doesn't work like this in practice. I provide three reasons why this is the case.
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Presented by Orion Taraban, Psy.D. PsycHacks provides viewers with a brief, thought-provoking video several days a week on a variety of psychological topics, inspired by his clinical practice. The intention is for the core idea contained within each video to inspire viewers to see something about themselves or their world in a slightly different light. The ultimate mission of the channel is to reduce the amount of unnecessary suffering in the world.
#psychology #relationship #dating
Every one of my three major relationships lasted more than a decade, one of them was 18 years and probably doesn't count because we started in high school. I was never married and only lived with one of them and that was the 18 year one. From what I remember of the other two, I was the one who was accommodating one of them and the other accommodated me. Neither one of those made me happier than the other but both of them left me, in keeping with the 80% statistic.
The title is wrong if you take it too literally or too symbolically. Do think practically - what do you really know about sailing? When a 34 feet yacht is crossing the ocean it might take about 3 weeks or more, and you might be two, three or four people on board - you take turns to be the captain, so that all can get enough sleep, which is essential for the survival of all on board. Women and men can sail like this, taking turns, but only if the men respect the women, or it stays a one time crossing. Taking turns is otherwise a really good life-lesson, not bad at all!
lol, socialism is a result of the success of capitalism as much as capitalism was only made possible by the age of global empires that feudalism created. You're a joke.
Unsure why a psychiatrist thinks they’re qualified to speak on politics. Earn a few polisci or economics degrees first.
@@DNA350ppm Navy sailor here. What you're referring to is called "standing the watch." As a watch stander, your job is to make sure the ship sails in accordance with the route already decided on by the captain. The captain leaves a set of instructions every night for you to follow. If you are unsure of what to do, you call the captain. Standing the watch does not make you the captain. If it did, then what's to stop you from saying "you know what, I know we've been going this way for the past 3 days, but we're gonna turn around and go the opposite direction instead." Then the next shift's "captain" decides to go in a completely different direction, and before you know it you've gone on a circle and have run out of supplies. So no, your analogy doesn't hold water (pun intended) and it seems clear that you don't know anything about sailing either.
The masculine frame will always be the best base for a relationship to function. What I’ve come to realize is that it doesn’t matter that women say they want to share equal frame, they are far more loyal to their emotions, than the actual relationship itself, which inherently puts the relationship on constant shaky grounds. It’s up to the man to set order and structure with the masculine around the feminine. That way, the feminine is less prone to being chaotic, with the trust that there’s a healthy masculine surrounding it.💯
Isn't that biased towards women to put it on the man first and foremost
Women are more loyal to their emotions than they are to the relationship, that's a good way of putting it. I remember Orion made a video about this, can't remember the titel though. Maybe "Women treat relationships like jobs"?
😅
@@burt2800
*title* ❤
Had a chick spend the night last night claiming she was tired and would immediately go to sleep.
She was emphatic about it.
She stayed up to 4am with me when prior it was 10pm. Most everything she said she didn’t do.
Typical. And no I didn’t press her to stay up. All tests of strength ect ect ect
Excellent, as usual. Describes my failed 20 year marriage. Once my feminist "equal partner" made more money than me, she perceived herself as oppressed by my "dependency", even though she got support (pausing my career/interests to raise the kids) to do her "dream job". I was sincerely happy for her success, she felt taken advantage of. The mindset of score-keeping that comes with "shared frame" egalitarianism is deadly to relationships. "Unequal", complementary roles is definitely the way to go, in my painfully-arrived-at opinion.
Can you share why you decided to pause your career success for hers? I’m curious to know how a man can come to that decision.
As a group wome are net tax burdens and recieve unconstitutional Affirmative Action in universities and the workplace, violating the equal protection clause of the 14th amendment to the U.S. Constitution. Race Affirmative Action is being looked at but not gender, yet and Ukrainian women are being drafted. Question: did she get child custody? (90%...family court is corrupt and unconstitutional.)
@@danielademide
Child alienation goes both ways and 15k to start babysitting? What benefits women is good what and what doesn't is bad. Ideally, they'd both take leave and babysit together until the kids are grown.
In my opinion, a man should never depend on anyone, especially a woman. It's unnatural and that's what made her feel oppressed. I hope you learned a valuable lesson and focus on your own self now. You deserve it.
@@Brymerius - What part of “unnatural” did you not understand? The OP negotiated from a place of weakness.
so true! many years ago, my father sat me down and had a talk with me about relationships when I was about to get maaried. He explained to the the 'ship can only have one Captain", etc. I disagreed with him at the time. As life went on, I learned I was wrong
He should have started the teaching a lot earlier so you have the opportunity to see it all play out yourself as you get older. I thank my dad for that.
Its true, if your not acting like a leader why would the girl follow you. At the end of the day the girl wants to follow us. But we have to step up and be the "captain" or leader she needs from us.
@@anthonyml7so stereotypical
@@Pk-wu9tlbecause it is true. most of the time, that is. we are talking about the rule. not the exception.
@@anthonyml7
Tell that to my soon to be X wife
She is a major malcontent
Dating is like partnered dancing. You can only have one lead. You can't have both lead, and you also can't have both follow. Now, there are certainly times where a woman can take the lead, but it should always be temporary and out of love while a man re-centers himself and works to recreate a stronger frame.
Perfect analogy. I'll add it to my mental construct. Thank you.
@@toonnaobi-okoye2949 - This should be in addition to you spending time around men who still think like men. Original Igbo men.
I like that you used a muslim woman as a thumbnail, did you know that in the quran it is said that the man shall lead? (lead the frame as you said it).
Bullshit. If it works for a couple it works. Stop projecting.
@@griffydz1789That was his point, you didn't get it, that's why.
Here we go again. I agree with the Doc. I almost entered my soul mate’s frame: Her house, her city & state, near her kids and grandkids, and over 1,000 miles from my kids. I was to be the add-on to make her life complete-but I was paying the greatest price to make that happen. All the best intentions in the world can’t overcome the pull of gravity. No matter how hard we tried, nothing was going to change the fact that it was her frame. I didn’t really understand this at the time, but I just couldn’t go through with it-as much as I love her and want to be with her. As the Doc said, it might work in theory but not in practice. I wish it weren’t so, but it’s true.
Good for you! You really dodged a bullet there!
That's a hard one to swallow but sounds like you just saved yourself years of regret.
Soul mate? Grow up
she didnt love you as much as you loved her. hard to hear (ive been there) but she loved controlling you (or trying ) and that cant ever work for a truly masculine man which is why todays woman is jacked on mental meds and men are being injected w soy in their daily diet
Ooof! half way through that first sentence I was "oh dam you never do that dude!" lol
This is like the rule of diminishing returns The more time one spends making a relationship functional, the less time one has for enjoyment of the relationship.
Which is why you can't build a relationship with a dysfunctional partner. Don't even try, it's a waste of time.
@@hyperteleXii what you mean by that? Dysfunctional?
@@Michael-rm1bxdysfunctional means it doesn't function well
E.g. emotional regulation - if people have trouble regulating their emotions (dysfunctional) it makes it harder to get things done, because time is taken up with soothing, self-soothing, reassurance, managing anxiety, etc and THEN doing the thing. Conversely, if people ate good at regulating their emotions there may be close to zero time spent managing their negative emotions (anxiety, frustration, etc) and they can get more done.
If someone needs retail therapy when they are anxious, they will have less money, I.e. this is dysfunctional. Same with turning to alcohol, tobacco, bad food, etc for emotional regulation - they reduce your money and health, which lowers the function of yourself and your life.
If someone is dysfunctional in terms of financial management, they will struggle with finances. This will reduce their possibilities and options in the rest of their life compared to if they were more functional.
And so on and so on.
So it is much better to be in a relationship with high functioning people than dysfunctional people. Of course, you have to be high functioning yourself, so you have to be willing to accept the options available to you, given your current level of 'functioning'
Great examples as always. Women say they want total equality, but we don't see total equality when it comes to divorce. We don't see many men divorcing female doctors and taking half, do we?
Nor do we see them running dates, or giving sex / seduction fantasies on their own or them thinking about their partner in a deeply “foot in the other shoe” type perspective ect ect.
No equality in divorce and most women with big money don’t give their guys anything if they have a stay at home dad type.
I’ve seen it a few times and it is actual finacial abuse. They are not givers when it comes to cash and things like that unless you have jigalo vibes with them.
I like that you rayan used a muslim woman as a thumbnail, did you know that in the quran it is said that the man shall lead? (lead the frame as you said it).
Literally my mother, and sh gave him more than half just to make the negotiations faster. The lawyer said women often do this, losing out just to avoid dragging things out.
Nor do we see milfs taking 18 year olds on yachts😂
@@griffydz1789 - That thumbnail is very appropriate given that the natural order of different expectations from men and women still largely exist in the Middle East and North Africa. Most if not all organized religion cast the man as the lead or head.
I used to walk around the neighborhood and I always saw the same guy sitting in a lawn chair every evening, drinking a beer and watching his big screen TV in the garage. Sometimes his wife was in the garage with him. Sometimes she was watching a different TV in the house by herself. Everyone needs to have their own place to be captain some of the time.
Thanks Orion. The videos on frame are very useful. More videos helping men deal with the guilt and manipulation women use to keep you in their frame would be really helpful. I've realized women are not the Disney princesses society has perpetuated. But can be brutal uncaring resource gatherers and users of men. Unfortunately I have given away most of my adult life figuring that out. Thanks for what you do.
For a 21 year old guy in a 3 year relationship trying to fix the mistakes of my 18, 19, 20 year old self (mostly coming from allowing things to be how I know they ought not to be, eg sharing frame (failing to)), this channel is just about my only properly useful guide. Thank you.
Keep it on boy!
Go go go
You are on the right track watching these videos will be a big help! Good for you
@@Alix-yu8rq Your toxic advice makes men and women unhappy
You are so blessed to have access to information like this at such a young age.
Díky!
Given that women tend to date hypergamously, e.g. they prefer older, wiser, more knowledgeable, more exciting, more interesting, more dominant, and more wealthier guys, it makes sense for the woman to step into his frame. Consequently, it is the job of the man to cultivate a frame so superior it is worth her while to leave her frame.
So the idea is to be one of the top 1 percent and maybe she wont gut you in the divorce courts the moment she gets bored.
@@lawshorizon-lol
moral of the story, no marriage to avoid divorce
Unconstitutional Affirmative Action gives women the ability to out earn men, while still being less qualified. Women are the majority of voters and don't register for Selective Service a felony if men don't, both laws violating the equal protection clause of the 14th amendment to the U.S. Constitution. Your individual masculine frame is set against her institutional feminine frame, on your dime...if she leaves the state will make you pay her lawyer up front. 60% of mothers are single and raise all the bad people. I'm a lion not a hyena.
Zoom out and you see a man excelling.. it's tough to be a man .. but that's how it is
Thank God for content like this if you are a man under 35..the younger we learn this the better
Plus like bones we heal faster while we’re younger. Going through shit like this in 40,50s, etc I’ve seen men never recover. Ego deaths are just easier to recover from when you’re young.
This is very important, I had an 11-year relationship trying to make this dynamic work, and it was like having an eternal roommate or a friends with benefits. This especially came true when decisions were trying to be made towards the end and I was really pushing asking questions on "where do we go from here, should we get married, should we had kids; I want to do XYZ, what do you want?" I should have known better when the whole relationship I was getting I don't knows and a lot of news on things that I actually wanted to do and wanted to push the issue on. She was trying to control frame and was not a good captain, didn't know what she wanted, I would've been miserable. 👍 learn to judge properly and make decisions boys, judge by actions and weigh the past and present along with if they learned and are a different person and live a good life. Don't try to change someone or wait forever and sacrifice your life. Choose wisely.
One last thing! The sex was great and plentiful until we moved in together; look out for love bombing boys! If she helps you forget about arguments and to forgive her for BS by making you blow a few loads and isnt actually sorry and takes action to knock off the BS, look out for that! Or just enjoy it for what it is/was and get out! I'll spare the details here, but yea, sex is for sure a powerful tool especially when they have that subject dialed in and know what you like, look out for that!
True! ... Trying to change someone is like trying to stop the turning of the earth.
@@lawshorizon yup, have a good one!
Your grandpa had frame. He could afford a house on the lake with a teachers salary.
@@forgottenfuryan in general this statement works, but in my family I think my grandfather's were whipped unfortunately.. but we'll apply this to my great grandfathers😅. Is what it is man.
@@jrtama5
Yeah, housing costs doubled every year since women unconstitutionally got the vote without registering for Selective Service, a felony if men don't. Oh, well, I guess we'll all just rent at a premium, no big deal.
Thank you, Orion. Men need to take notes here because this is where we construct a goal-oriented life. If we don't, our Frame will not only attract lower quality partners but puts us at risk of losing our purpose entirely.
Greatings from Poland, you are doing a great job with that knowledge sharing. All the best!
Dokładnie.
Love this channel, I always find it odd how there are crucial things in life that we don't even consider giving a brief thought at, such as topics like these.
Sounds nice to be co-captains. Does not work.
Great content as always, sent a thanks and joined. Cheers!
I love the casual bashing on socialism, I respect you even more now
I respect him less. As soon as you start to get political these days you immediately eliminate a large part of your potential fanbase. Everyone is entitled to their political views, but it also says something about his other view on things. A lot of them I agree with, but his casual bashing just made me aware of his whole world view, which might not be very flexible or open to other ideas.
100% true. My LTR started going down the drain when I stopped leading (because she stopped following). I should have called it quits right then and there but tried to save the relationship. Big mistake.
Excellent video! It is so true that both will be tired of making sure things are "equal" in all aspects. When women openly admit they want a man more stable, more competent, more financially stable , and stronger than them, they must therefore concede to the logical importance of stepping into his frame than the other way around.
With great power (captain of the 'relation'ship) comes great responsibility. The ugly truth is that women are far less likely to be responsible with that power, because they refuse to be held accountable the same way the man would be the other way around.
Not only that, but society and other people will hold him accountable (even if he's not the captain of the relationship) while simultaneously helping her flee from accountability. There's absolutely no incentive for her to do the right thing.
I've also learn the hard way to NOT give your power away. As men, our time, resource, energy, SELF CONTROL & Power, are our most powerful tools. Once we give away too much power, the scales tip in the feminine frame and everything blows to shiet.
Wish I had access to perspective like this 20 years ago
In my experience, women either start by saying the want to be equals or quite a few even want a more traditional relationship where the man is the leader. But I also see that when the woman doesn’t get what she wants, as in the man didn’t decide the way she wanted, all of a sudden she goes from him being in charge to being equals or more likely her deciding she needs to be in charge because she feels she can’t trust his decisions. It’s not that he can’t make good decisions or lead, it’s that she wants her way no matter what.
Yes, and as the man it's your job to say no
@@juanpaz5124 And then it's her right to say whatever she wants that destroys your life.
Úr assumptions are correct I believe. What would u propose?
@@mariakal8884 Get a dog.
@@BloodyHeck it's her right to destroy your life???
Danke!
Thanks
I have a philosophy with women. If a woman wants to be in my life fantastic. If she doesn't want to be in my life, that is fantastic as well.
That's the only philosophy we ought to live for😊
I’m a happily married father and husband. I’d say that a working household requires compromise.
A great relationship and household kind of works like a company.
You have shareholders who own the assets. You have an executive team who run things. You have team who implement. And stakeholders who benefit or are impacted.
A great company is rarely an authoritarian CEO who makes all decisions and then has everyone do their bidding. Exec teams discuss and solve things together. Ultimately the CEO has to make some tough calls occasionally but the majority of the time, the CMO makes marketing decisions, the CFO makes finance decisions the COO runs the day to day and the CEO is doing big deals and setting the direction of travel (with the team enrolled).
In a family the couple are the shareholder (often 50:50) and one is the CEO and the other is the COO. They have support structures and the kids are the team and stakeholders.
To me this model of thinking works best.
Thank you for your comment. I'm reading the rest of the comments and I'm getting scared over the amount of authority men require in order to be pleased. I never disagreed over leaving the "frame" job on the man, as I am traditional myself and I witnessed this growing up, so I find it normal . But there is a difference between guiding the family and being a dictator. From the comments here, most guys find a perverted joy into turning themselves in dictators. They use as excuses that many women out there abuse men, financially and emotionally, so the only viable solution is to turn women into slaves and decide what they will do everyday for the rest of their lives. Otherwise there is a chance to cheat, lie, raise another man's kid or worse.. So the solution is men to make EVERY decision . You want to work? Nah... You want kids? Nahh... You want to go out with your friends (and no I don't mean in clubs, I mean at a coffee shop in day light without flirting with anyone) NAHHH... . I can only be terrified over marrying such a person, being afraid that if I get cheated or he decides to leave me in the future for any reason , I will have no voice and no authority to protect my rights and the rights of my kids, since according to this "frame theory" or more correctly the abuse of "the frame theory" that most guys propose in the comments, I will be stripped over everything slowly over the years of our marriage. The outcome? If the guy cheats on me for example, he leaves me with nothing and he continues his life happily with money and new woman.And before men say that wives get 50% no they don't. In my country they get 30% but with a good lawyer or a good accountant u can leave them with zero.
@@mariakal8884❤ Lovely comment. Took the words right out of my mouth.
@@mariakal8884 relationships come from people who have successful marriages with 2+ kids. Everything else is speculation.
This is wild comparison and nobody said anything about being a CEO and making every decision! You misrepresented everything he said and wrote completely pointless comment
@@mariakal8884 Who said they want to be dictators and women should be slaves? Complete misrepresentation! Clearly since feminism went mainstream family unit fell apart
Your explanation of how the passage of time affects the frames of partners and their mutual decisions is the best I’ve come across.
23 years old navigating a long distance relationship right now and we’re both in the military, so your videos have been super helpful.
She either follows you as a man and waits. Or you move on.
Thanks!
Thanks for the support, Ty!
I can’t tell if you have any female viewers/commenters but I would like to say I find your content super helpful! I’m a clinical therapist working with men who have been shattered by betrayal or who are caught in a “Catch 22.” I see just as many women who are in emotionally abusive relationships/marriages. It appears there has been little guidance at the onset of picking a partner. Most come from dysfunctional families, possibly some complex trauma, and are just repeating patterns and ignoring red flags. People need education on how to find a quality partner and not let their emotions and libido override their rational thinking.
Love is not enough! There has to be respect, humility, and honest and effective communication… characteristics that seem to be dwindling in our culture.
As someone who most likely to fit only in their own frame, I can extremely relate to this video. Had to always cut ties before even having them knotted because I am terrified to put myself in someone's frame and also too eager not to lock someone else in mine.
That fear is a lack of frame.
@@Jimminityjabooboo could be. also it means appreciation of freedom of somehow.
@@SlayerofzulmakI didn't hit my head against the wall but you apparently did. Lol
The video clearly explains why it won't work for two people to share a "frame" and the only way to make it work is when one party complements the frame provided by the other, which also needs to be well constructed and presented. Knowing I cannot provide the suitable frame and fearing to share someone else's is how I relate to this.
This channel is so important, like a father very few of my Gen Z had.
My Pastor started a training course for married men because of the absolutely terrible crisis going on, this guy goes pretty much along the same things in the course, it’s called the family captain.
Problem for most Christian churches is that most of the men are simps and pedestalize wives.
Head of the household i heard more but family captain sounds funny
Great food for thoughts!
Here's what I think. In your models, people benefit from what they get, not what they give. However, in reality there is happiness in both: sometimes I give, sometimes I get, and I appreciate the variety of experience.
Also, everyone has several frames, several identities. The best relationships are those where each person can keep as many frames as possible from their previous single life. Exploring each other's frames is fun.
"Keeping as many frames as possible from there single life." Not Even a clue.
I really enjoyed this episode and can not wait until the next one. Also having gone through one of your older episodes I really benefited from the advice to stop doing the things that hurt you instead of starting new behaviors.
Really enjoy this channel because of how eloquently and logically Dr. Taraban describes solutions that most would consider "politically incorrect" or "socially not-the-norm".
Great talks Sir. Thank you.
I find this very interesting in regards to organisations and projects as I didn’t want to be the leader, director or frontman yet when I took the mantle and made suggestions to my mates, we started moving forward with out music, when I took the initiative on school projects we got things done and when I suggested goals to my mates, they actually got things done, enjoying themselves, because someone was in charge, someone had a frame and the frame was way more beneficial than trying to be egalitarian
Three words perfectly describe the problem with the relationship I've just gotten out of. Amazing work.
Great content and I appreciate these follow-up type type videos
100% correct again. Relationships are always unequal, or lopsided (adored Vs adorer, from a prior video). And as you've said, people change in time. What was agreeable once, may not be agreeable 4 years down the road. So, even if each party drops their current frame to co-create a mutually created new frame, it very likely will not work, just ask divorce lawyers and your local municipal court. Consider unequal incomes. Another great video.
You're doing an amazing job, Orion. My younger self could have used so much of that kind of advice... Keep on doing what you do, Sir, it helps a ton.
This man is so smart. I am always so impressed!
You're the only one who creates your reality. There is no point in compromising without causing resentment....
I have a true story that resonates with what you're saying about constant frame-balancing, around @6:00. My late wife's parents had 5 kids, and in order to be fair at Christmas, they made sure the gifts were fair. So if the budget was $30, and a kid got a gift for $25.93, there would be an envelope for $4.07 along with the gift. This didn't work all that well, though. Because sometimes one kid would get a cheap-but-large gift (like a beach ball), and another would get an expensive-buit-small gift (like jewelry). So there would be jealously. And kids often mistake a gift's size for its value.
My point is: trying to make everything perfectly fair and even is ridiculous.
Im 35 and now it really makes a lot of sense why my past relationships failed
Fully agree both with this follow up and the original video about the concept of frame. I have personally been in both types of relationships. In my experience, things were possible and good in the “man frame” and led to complete dysfunction when I was pushed to be in the woman’s frame.
Exactly, polarity is not to be confused, only complimented
polarity not needed in the first place
Couldn’t agree more. A standard I believe whole heartedly. The masculine frame should always be the go to.
wrong
@@mstamper77ok do you then lil bahby
Such insightful information! @7:32 Today is daylight savings, so I guess the universe wanted me to watch this video. Thank you for making this! 🔥🔥
Orion, you're doing a great job of constructing a framework that helps navigating the relationship world. thanks for doing so!
Two frames
1. Peacetime frame= anyone can be anything or be in any frame.
2. Wartime frame=assume “traditional”gender roles. Men fight and die, and women raise kids.
Man, this is great. You put the entire subject of current gender insanity and toxic feminism into perspective here!
Are you saying that the above frame is valid, or are you just listing the different frames which exist in different times.
@@dmytoe5679 they're saying that when shit hits the fan, men are expected to take charge.
No
60% of mothers are single and raise 80% of inmates and 85% of children with behavioral disorders. A masculine frame in that paradigm would need to be quite load bearing, even beyond what is natural.
the day light savings example was perfect for the effects of changing frame
Thanks!
So basically equality doesn't exist in relationships, in practice we have either Patriarchy or Matriarchy, in which usually Patriarchy works better.
Mind-blowing analogies😮!!! 'Pilot and co-pilot'. You are an intelligent being. Where did you learn all these?
@psychacks Thank you, Dr. Orion. I'm very grateful for this channel. It is shifting my thinking.
"talking about the relationship is probably one of the least interesting things you can do in a relationship".....says a man. Most women I think would disagree. They loooovvveee talking about the relationship. It's one of their favourite topics.
and I hear they usually talk themselves out of one
Orion’s favorite expression « all things being equal » 😂
In Latin: ceteris paribus
The best, most common sense explanation of frame and why it should be the mans
I agree with this for the most part, but the problem is this if you dominate the relationship too much, it breeds resentment.... you have to compromise to some degree, otherwise that person is not going to be invested into the relationship. If your doing everything you want to do as a man, she's not doing anything that she wants and is just going along with it... eventually she is going to resent you, and she is not going to give af about the relationship... she could turn this against you and start using you. Good leaders compromise to some degree, for their best employees.
Well yes. Living in your dreams doesn't mean completely ignoring her feelings and opinions. It's actually a frame *for* all her feelings and opinions.
@@Alix-yu8rq -- At a company, employer provides with money and protects (with health benefits) for the services of the employees. If the husband is the primary earnerm then wife is like an employee because husband provides and protects for her services (sex, children, chores). Women treat their marriage as jobs anyway. Hypergamy means wives leaving current job (husband) for better job (a new richer man).
I like your dry humor. Very funny!
The fact that Doc has to teach this shows how neutered western men have become. I can’t phantom my father quitting his job so my mother could take her dream job in another city. RIP Daddy.
Women are a net tax burden due in part to their unconstitutional Affirmative Action in universities and the workplace.
You can only have good confidence a married man isn't emasculated is if they're in their 70s. In couples younger than 50 it's pretty much unheard of that he hasn't been castrated and he's on a leash. I can only think of three marriages/LTRs where the men under 60 lead with no quarrel from their wives.
I've similarly found that women flat out refuse to accept my boundaries and will have a tantrum or sulk if they do, then they leave to find a simp with no backbone.
If he/she cares more about a job/career than fostering the relationship, building a life together, starting a family, building a communal legacy... relationships aren't for that particular individual. After best efforts to negotiate, if you're still forcibly stuck with that decision by your partner, it's probably better to leave him/her and let him/be to their own individual journey rather than to sacrifice your own needs and long term best interest goals by subjugating to your other's individual desires/goals that don't take you into consideration whatsoever. Different horses for different courses but at least you'll retain your own soul and just wish each other the best.
You raise an interesting topic (regarding men today).
If I may add some things to consider:
Most men (throughout the history of humanity, even pre-civilization) have not been/are not the top tier, nor are they leaders. Most men in general are followers (and I do not mean that in any negative sense). Now with that being said, most men, when given solid leadership with legitimate "men"/"alphas"/"high-value"/whatever term you prefer...most men will do a fair job of emulating their leaders.
Average men will behave more like strong men when the strong men lead. But when the strong men leave leadership to go do other things, the average men will behave more like weak men.
Take away: As society has lost true male leadership, the average man has had less and less opportunity to observe and fall in line with how leaders behave.
You can take average men and lead them towards being well-adjusted and strong frame holding...IF there is sufficient role models/leadership.
I could spend hours discussing how we arrived at this point, but for now I'll just leave it as is.
The vast majority of men, when lacking strong leaders/models, will default to more "beta"/"simp" -like behaviors.
@@colasfalon6470 Yes and the fact that 50% of children have no father in the house explains a lot of why men don’t know how to be leaders.
2:58 I’m hearing that frame must have an owner. Frame must not be shared. It’s not communal.
Now, women are failing to see how this works. When she really is smitten over you, she will GLADLY enter into and DESIRE your frame as the man. Whatever you want, she wants.
If you are still having a debate about it then you’re dealing with a masculine woman or at the very least, a woman that doesn’t want to submit to that particular man - she doesn’t think you are the best she can do.
In that case, the man should walk or start creating leverage to allow himself to walk without getting wrecked.
Make her choose, fellas. Have standards - have boundaries. Pink and blue jobs. Pink and blue roles.
That’s all great, but her perspective WILL shift over time. If you have to make sure you can walk at any time, it’s no more than a business relationship anyway. If you can detach to that degree, why would you want it in the first place?
SIR,YOURE HERE ON THIS CHANNEL TO LEARN. YOU MIGHT BE WITH A WOMAN WHO DOESN'T UNDERSTAND HOW RELATIONSHIPS TRULY WORK. AS THE CAPTAIN, LEADER ,YOU SHOULD BE A TEACHER ALSO. BUT YOU CHOOSE TO WALK. WITH THAT ATTITUDE OF WALKING. I BET YOU SPEND A LOT OF TIME WALKING. AS YOU CAN SEE, IM A WOMAN. AND UNFORTUNATELY FOR ME,I WAS RAISED BY A SINGLE MOTHER. NEVER HAD THAT MALE FIGURE ROLE MODEL. SO IM LEARNING FOR MYSELF. SURE,ID LIKE A MAN TO LEAD. BUT IM DEFINITELY ABLE TO TAKE CARE OF MYSELF BECAUSE THAT'S ALL I HAVE EVER KNOWN AND DONE..SURVIVING LIFE.JUST SAYING
Dang caught this one right as it got posted. Just wanna say you're providing an amazing service here Dr. and I thank you for it.
I remember spending a lot of time trying to find a therapist/psychologist who could speak to me from the perspective of the masculine experience and ended up really dissapointed. It's great to see someone talk about these subjects in a calm, and (from my perspective) objective manner that helps me understand the building blocks of social dynamics and my own response to them.
Wish you all the best and will continue watching.
Captain and co-pilot was a good analogy.
One observation I have seen is that u often have to take risky decision in life and also own responsibility when things go wrong. Women oftenly shy away from taking blames. Hence a big problem.
Yes!
The man is inherently always going to assume responsibility, therefore it’s only reasonable for him to ALSO assume authority.
There are some women who might actually take responsibility.
Facts !!!!! They aren’t suitable to be leaders
If I done something at fault,wrongfully, as a WOMAN why wouldn't I take the blame? If it's my FAULT, m makes sense to me to take the BLAME.
Those artworks in your thumbnail are great.
The frame that controls the direction of the relationship is always the most restrictive, even if the benefits seem to go towards the partner who isn't setting the frame. A trophy wife is restricted to playing that role even if she seems to be the major beneficiary.
Great informative video as per usual. For people who are uncertain on who the captain is in their relationships, it might be an idea for a future video to create a questionnaire?
"They dont come in half sizes" 🤣🤣
Man's value is largely based on his behaviour, so compromising his lifestyle in order to suit the relationship is lowering his value, therefore the relationship after a while isn't profitable for a woman anymore. Meanwhile the woman's value isn't affected by compromising on her decisions, so she can very well adjust to the male frame and even profit from that.
Absolutely
Well said! I've thought that a woman would benefit from supporting her husband, making sure he knows she believes in and supports him, offering her counsel, but letting him lead.
Such a man will be more likely to thrive and lead at work and at church also. She and her children will benefit from his learned skill, income, and spirituality.
On the other extreme, if she beats him down and believes he is worthless, the only way he will become successful is without her.
'I make the big decisions, she makes the small decisions.'
'So how's that working out?'
'I don't know. So far, there have only been small decisions.'
@6:52 are there any pilots in this threat who can verify that pilots and co pilots dont switch mid flight? i leniencies that i read about what pilots actually do mid flight would be scary to some. especially that most people dont know just how equipt planes actually are even with out someone manning it for a few minutes.
There one girl who used to come to my work and she was always bitter toward men
and the one phrase she used to always repeat over and over is "No man is going to
be the star of MY show. In MY life, you play the background!!!"
Needless to say, it's been over 10 years and she has yet to find a man that is willing
to step into her frame. Her constant combativeness has rendered her undateable &
she still can't figure out why.
I have gone on over 300 First dates....and currently single for past few years. I can tell you that today's woman constantly believes a man is to protect, provide but also be sitting in the passenger seat and see her as the prize. I will not enter a relationship like this and today's woman is almost exclusively unable to offer this unless they are just out of high school, raised in a traditional Christian family w a great father relationship and low social media. Not much hope catching a girl like that at 25.+. Feminists have destroyed the nuclear family
I was literally told a year ago by a single mother that if I wanted a relationship w her, I would need to be silent in the raising of her child and was only to provide and she was in charge of the family. Lol. She makes 28k a year cutting hair and I make 300k a year and im supposed to just sit not in the passenger seat but in the back seat and cheer her on but provide a million dollar home, an Audi, pay all the bills , fund vacations all for the privilege of having her and another mans seed in my life lol
I lol but it's sad....it's really sad to watch. They hurt themselves and the rest of society because they have bought into the feminist lies
same experience too, about 100 first dates and western women in canada are adversarial towards men, selfish and not kind at all. Even the christian ones have slept around, I'm not even sure what to do now. Church hopping and online dating filters with traditional women, let's see if this works
As someone who's been on 200+ first dates, your comment is 1000% spot on. They want you to be their EVERYTHING, and in return, you get nothing and if you're unhappy about that, it's because you're narcissistic. I've gotten good at this game though. Be nothing more than what they deserve, and when it's time to let them go, trick them into losing interest by being nice and respectful to them at all times. They dry up quick and lose interest, and you come out looking like the good guy and she doesn't slash your tires or harass you because she thinks she's the one who lost interest in you. It's a win-win in this society unless you want a family. Then it's L's across the board
@@tdaye6978 Yeah, its really bad out here . BTW I didnt mean it as a flex but to clarify that I am not someone who cant get dates and is sitting in his moms basement ;)
It kills me because I truly WANT a family and have sacrificed hard to provide and am Christian so not into hookup culture and its really rough to find a woman thats even close to what I would consider for marriage
@@kalbsleber Yep. Yet shell submit and thank Chad all day long while he does less
@@AverageAngel Yeah. I know a few church girls I would normally consider for a relationship but they racked up bodies and Im not going to save them . But PLENTY of men at church say they dont care about Body counts and would marry high body count. Im like wth....you guys dont understand the consequences and risk. They just think short term and caution to the wind
I think that you are missing the perspective from the other side. Many men have given “frame” as you call it to women and it’s been successful. I would say my wife and I have a equal frame where we both lead in different ways and it works very well. She works at a hedge fund and came from a well to do family, I look after the kids and work part time from home. I moved for her and it works very well. Don’t knock what works for others I guess.
You forget that women can marry and have kids with men they consider beta's, even though they still desire the alpha. So either you bring something to the table you're not mentioning or she is hanging around other guys behind you're back, as women cannot control their hypergamy.
E.G. she will always be more attracted to a man that makes more money then her/you, regardless of the circumstances. I encourage you to check out the other videos Dr. Taraban has published to see what I'm talking about.
@@masterTigress96 We have a very strong, emotionally open relationship so I do not worry about any infidelity . The problem with these videos is that in the real world these 'rules' do not always apply, Working your whole life around these red pill 'truths' is causing more harm than good and I see it in the younger generation of men. Nice in theory but not always accurate or representative of the real world. I always say you attract what you are. If you are an insecure womaniser, good luck trying to find a secure grounded, emotionally available woman.
@@Pk-wu9tl then we're going to agree to disagree I'm afraid. Thanks for your response.
@@masterTigress96 Her SMV is prolly quite low relative to the man
@@masterTigress96 wrong. Not all women are like this.
Orion is the captain of this channel and we’re all the passengers.
Question is - how much leverage should one get so the other lives in his frame? Seems like tons of leverage is needed in '23's standards....
Nothing exists outside of a hierarchy. Everything has a weight and value.
Women are a net tax burden.
[22] Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. [23] For the husband is head of the wife, as also Christ is head of the church; and He is the Savior of the body.
Ephesians 5:22-23 NKJV
@@400BadR3quest
90% of Christians have fornicated
@@400BadR3quest bullshit
This started to rear its' head, the MOMENT I moved into a new house.....she (who didn't put up a single dime in the purchase), was upset that I didn't let her choose which bedroom was hers.
Nice episode!
It should also follow from the adored/ adorer dynamic. The adored should set frame. However, pilots are a terrible analogy. They actually switch frames. Aviation has a concept of pilot in command. Captain stays captain, but that doesn't mean he is in command at all times. This is because pilots need command experience and they might need rest. Often, the second pilot is fully qualified to be in command - that is he doesn't require supervision. Sometimes, the second pilot is not qualified and is being trained. In which case he would be acting like he is in command (technically, it's pilot in command under supervision or PICUS for short). And this is unavoidable on long distances where pilots rotate. The captain might actually be asleep in a bunk while second and third pilot fly the aircraft. And it could actually be the third, most junior pilot who is in command and second pilot is supporting him. The third pilot might have over ten thousand hours of experience. And they will transfer command several times during a flight. If something serious happens, a senior pilot might take command. Although it would be unusual to change seats. So, if a captain wakes up during an emergency, he might stay out and just direct verbally if necessary. Captains typically have more experience, but it's more a question of employee hierarchy.
Great content again! Just have one thing to add, something my grandfather (WW2 vet) said!: All men are created equal but the problem is that they don't stay equal.
“Egalitarian frame” must have come from a woman, lol.
Which means that by accepting this as a concession, you’d be entering into the feminine frame… aka you’d be in your wife’s frame.
Yep
Let’s remember it is Eve that brought down the human race 🐰🌎
Right, you're already compromising half your frame, and the other half will be coerced out of you with manipulation tactics that pretend you had a say in the matter. Which, by the way, also serves as culpability so she can blame you when she wants something else.
A.K.A. entering relationships women who have kid(s), rooted with a 100k + house, dogs/cats, all compounded with idealisms that go against hierarchical order and structure, OR she not having none of that, but desire all of that, and looking for a man to "help" her get all of that. NEVER enter that frame... disqualify/kick her off the ship before going on the voyage.
Men need to understand that most of the times a woman says something silly like this, she's usually testing. Women will do that with almost everything. Just don't give them what they "want", no matter how "serious" they are about it. It's always a shit test. If you do what she wants, she won, you lost. And she's not gonna respect your masculinity.
Yes, but in your theory, the one who lives inside the others frame, have more power. Or not?
5 years in a relationship now, started great at 18; but unfortunately it has devolved over time.
The fact that i watered down my own desires with the goal of seeking harmony, has ironically resulted in the degradation of my current romantic relationship, even though in my eyes every concession i made was to "find middle-ground", i ended up abdicating frame to her, not immediately, but slowly and steadily.
The question is: is this reversible, or is it doomed.
It is the height of sanity to recognize as reality that as humans age as they grow and mature over time they " should" arguably change. Change is necessary in healthy individuals as they mature. Conversation about the healthy and changing nature of any given relationship is also necessary to ensure a couple continues to grow in ways that are amenable and meaningful to both parties in a relationship.
Furthermore, if things/changes seem to slow the growth of either party in a couple this seems easily and rightfully part of the cost of the relationship?? It's seems to me always good to have someone around who knows you and whom you trust to tell you the sometimes unvarnished truth about yourself so that I do not delude myself in to believing something that is not true about myself.
Agree with most of your points, however airplane's pilot and co pilot actually do switch responsibilities halfway in the flight. Those positions are called pilot monitoring and pilot flying.
Okay but ultimately the captain is the captain right ? Sometimes you can give your woman power depending on the situation and let’s say she’s more capable of carrying out the task. Let’s think about decorating the house. Women are typically better therefore you can say “babe you manage this part” ultimately youre giving her power but you’re still the captain
If one of them thinks he is so much higher in rank that he is infallible, and is not capable of listening properly nor delegating - and the other is so downtrodden s/he cannot get points carried through, then they easily end in disaster. If one of them needs to be so cocky, the whole plane is in danger. Or the ship as might be - just think of the macho captain of "Costa Concordia" with very bad judgement both in details and in principle. It was his frame, and it was destructive.
@@beowulf_of_wall_st Then: how to safe-guard against that it is not the idiot who has the last word/decision/action ? (It could be the woman, too.)
This is to balance workload by sharing the stresses (and satisfaction) of actually flying the aircraft.
But it doesn't tell the whole story as to how cockpit culture has changed over the last 25 years.
After a number of notable air disasters in the 90s and early 2000s, mostly in East Asia, where authoritarian ex-military pilots, who had transitioned into roles as airline captains, dominated commercial cockpits so much so that junior officers were unwilling to question questionable decisions made by their superiors, modern commercial pilot training, incorporating Crew Resource Management (CRM), mitigates such asymmetry and flying is now much safer.
I don't know how pertinent this is to romantic relationships and maybe this isn't one of the doctor's best metaphors.
Or, perhaps, we can learn from CRM how to manage our marriages more effectively.
Furthermore, in Jungian archetypes, "The Ruler inspires us to take responsibility for our own lives, in our fields of endeavor, and in the society at large. If he/she overcomes the temptation to dominate others, the developed Ruler creates environments that invite in the gifts and perspectives of all concerned."
Marriage culture too has changed as there are most often two incomes in any household, and so with shared workload there must be more acceptance of the other's input, and therefore responsibility.
Still, every flight, like every marriage, has an objective, and the crew, under the direction of the captain, better be agreed upon the heading or else they're in for a bumpy ride.
And so maybe the analogy does hold water after all, but with modern aviation safety in mind.
We can hold frame, but be less domineering, like modern captains, and accept inputs, from our cohort in the cockpit, that serve (only) a smoother flight towards a final destination.
Do yall remember the growing pains as a kid? This is like that; You cant be mad that the trial is made of fire. It is what it is.
eg. Don't ask your wife where do you want to eat tonight and spend 10 minutes going back & forth. Just (you, the man) pick a place and go.
Bye!
@@roseoilwaxes5787bye bye to u lol
Cant believe we dealing with a quarter million
Orion I am so proud of you
Rise to the top
My father was from a poor background and married my mother who was affluent. My father steered the ship and faithfully managed my mother's fortune and our family for 57 years. My father's secret? He learned how to steer the ship while letting my mother believe she was the one actually doing it, he never got any credit for this and still remained humble and self effacing until he passed away last month at 94. I am trying to use the same technique in preserving my own marriage of 20 years now.
Having recently had a stroke and finding my ability to be independent severely limited I am in fear of losing my relationship as I am just dead weight.
It’s just a matter of time until I am cast adrift because I have limited value.
I'm sorry for your issue. I had a surgery and was in a ward with stroke patients who had the same surgery. Our nurse had as well for yet a third reason. Exercise is the fountain of youth.
The only solution to that problem is to choose a woman who's self image is of someone who does not give up on a relationship when times get tough. Of course the way out of this cognitive disonance is to assert that you are the one failing in some way, e.g. not trying hard enough. There are actually many, many women who will stay with a man in such circumstances but, unfortunately, it's usually too late to change horses if you've got one of the others and your dating value is 0. Commiserations 😞
@@SmileyEmoji42
60% of mothers are single and they raise 85% of children with behavioral disorders. That leaves 40% for the rest of us to fight over.
Hopefully your partner wouldn’t do that.
Statistically speaking, women are more likely to stay with men who become disabled than men are to stay with a woman who becomes disabled. So, there’s statistically a stronger chance that she’ll stay with you.
But this fear is really just something that Red Pill guys talk about. It’s not indicative of how real human relationships actually work. It’s just a bunch of weird formulas for male behavior.
Now of course people can abandon people… because people are people.
But my advice is to stop listening to Red Pill advice. It doesn’t account for the love and the attachment factor.
And it’s just designed to create relationship anxiety for men and then simultaneously soothe that anxiety… thus creating an addictive loop.
@@TheDiamondNet
Citation needed. Marriage, sex and childbirth rates are at all time lows and women file 80% of divorces with half of women by generation after the boomers being childless. Your soft cooing doesn't mean much.
This has been very enlightening. It makes sense why women never wanted to date me: when I'm honest with myself, I just don't want anyone else in my frame. Building a life for myself was already far too hard. Making accommodations to turn my frame into a two-seater would have been exhausting and inauthentic
And there are no women who would ever want to share my authentic life. "Hey want to watch me work on a video game engine and then walk around for 3 hours thinking about neural networks and semiotics before we turn in and watch some TV shows that you will absolutely hate? Ahoy, sexy" 🚢
You completely misinterpreted what frame means. When an employee enters her boss's frame, it does not mean that the employee does whatever her boss does. It means, employee follows boss's leadership to do completely different things that her boss approves/wants her to do.
@@rayrwyr an office has a boss. A relationship does/should not.
Question...is it possible for a couple to come together with an open heart and share the frame?
Rather than coming together by the intellectual mind and super analyzing every moment lived together?
Is it possible to come together in Love?
yes, but that isn't recognized here. The people being catered to here are incredibly immature, both male and female. Love and true mutuality is not a thing here. Totally beyond everyone here.
I wish these channels existed back in 2012 lol such amazing information
You change the clock one hour two times per year not one. Otherwise another spot on video Orion!!!!
But when the clocks get changed forward and people gain an hour of sleep the opposite happens. There are las car accidents
I think this is a powerful concept, but I used to refer to it as "compatibility". What I guess I mean by that is if two people are highly compatible, to the point where they have very similar frames, then the person who "yields authority" will generally be happy to do so, especially if it results in the more competent person in charge of constructing the frame. In some ways it is similar to the captain of a sports team. When the coach makes his own son captain, that seldom works well. But when the selected captain is the natural leader of the team due to competence and respect, such that if there were a vote that person would most likely be the choice, then it works well.
Or as my dad used to put it: "Dance with the girls who like you."
Hi, I would love to get your thoughts on Jada Smith 😂
Can someone explain to me in the case the man's lead is followed, how it can be guaranteed that the man won't take advantage of his lead. And if such case happens and he wrongs his woman, how the woman will be protected?
There are no guarantees here. People are weird, people are evil. People with options are constantly probed and may give in and cheat. But ask youself the question: Why TF did it work in the past most of the time? Because there was evolutionary pressure. And societal pressure/shaming. The latter is gone completely in the West now, but the former does not go away. If man and woman play the game right, it still works. But we all have been told lies. A lot. Your questions show that. Find the truth, better yourself and make the right decisions. That is easier said than done, especially for women, because the sexual revolution and the pill allowed them to do, what never before in history was possible: rack up bodycount from the age of 13 upwards. This early decision is so detrimental, that it shakes the foundation of our culture and society. Parents have lost it... since 3-4 generations. Marriage? A trap for men. And men compare outcomes on the internet now and refuse to play that rigged game anymore. Good luck to you!❤
There’s no way to know because men can be bad people just like women can be bad people. Not everyone is the same