A viewer named Heinz Holger providing this great information about the tool: It's called Eldi "Speichenkröpfer" No. 1036. Here is a catalogue from the 50s. velopedia.online/File/SmallPdf/ELDI/ELDI%20Werkzeuge%20Prospekt%201950er%20Jahre See page 11 I replied to Heinz: Wow, this is wonderful, Heinz - exactly what I was hoping to find. Thank you so much for sharing it! My tool is either an earlier or later version because it's different but it's made for the same purpose and is great to see. Using Google's translator, here is the tool description for those who cannot read German (I noticed there is no ELDI mention of making emergency spokes with it - maybe that's a just a lucky coincidence): Quoting from the catalog: "Keeping all spoke lengths in stock is absurd, because it means dead capital. It's better to buy the ELDI spoke crimper, because you can use it to make any length you want yourself. So not just spokes for 20, 22, 24 or 26 wheels, but also spokes for every stroller, scooter or doll's pram etc. With the ELDI spoke crimper, you can do whatever you want fulfill immediately. With one side first cut the spoke to the desired length and then insert the end into the other head side. One push and the spoke is in the desired length cranked. The annoying search for the different lengths stops, you don't need a big one stock and no different types to reorder. The only thing you need is this ELDI spoke crimper." I'd sure like to know more about this tool in the catalog to understand if it differs from the one I have. Now I know what it's called and when it was made so I'll keep looking. Thanks very much, Heinz. You made my day!!
I have seen this z-bend before and I think it must have been an entire wheel laced with spokes bent like that. I remember being impressed that one would be able to poke it in end first and that it could hold tension. It never occurred to me that I could myself bend a spoke like that to get a length I didn't have - doh! I have, though, straightened J-bends to get a length of straight pull I didn't have so a bikepacker could keep going.
@@dmrfnk thanks for watching and commenting, Dimar, appreciate it! Straightening a J-bend to "make" a straight pull is a clever trick in itself.. good thinking! And, it is possible that the Z bend spokes you saw were production spokes laced into that wheel. The spoke maker Hoshi used to make Z bend aero spokes in the early 80's because their bladed spokes were way to wide to fit through spoke holes and it took a lot of time to file slots in the holes to make their spokes fit.
I filed off most of a spoke head earlier today to allow me to insert it in the hub without removing the sprocket cluster. It's another way of getting the spoke fitted on the hub with minimal tools.
Thanks for watching and the comment. That's an interesting idea. The only thing is that if most of the head is gone the questions is what's holding the spoke in the hub?
Japanese Hoshi spokes used the same kind of end without being “emergency” spokes back in the day. I’ve built up some wheels with them. Got some more laying around somewhere.
Thanks for watching and commenting, David. Yes, I'm familiar with Hoshi spokes - I showed them in a TH-cam community post on my channel here: tinyurl.com/ynd2meu6. When aero spokes first came along in the early 1980s, Hoshi used the Z bends on their aero/bladed spokes because their spokes were too wide at the aero/blade section to fit through spoke holes. We used to slot the hub spoke holes with hand files to get aero spokes into the hub, which took forever and meant masking the hubs to prevent the metal filings getting inside the hub bearings. It was so nice not to have to do that when the Hoshi spokes came along. But they would work well as emergency spokes so long as you could get them in the size you need for your wheels. With the tool you can make any length you need. But the Hoshi spokes are very cool. Thanks for the great comment.
Awesome video Jim as always. I think this tool eventually was destined for you to find it, definitely belongs in your tool box! In all my years I've never heard of emergency spokes let alone a tool to make them. Every day's a school day, thanks Jim.
Thanks for the great comment, Graham. I do believe some tools have found me like this. I'm glad you enjoyed the video and this old tool and appreciate you watching and commenting!
This is a great video. I’ve broken several rear drive side spokes and, as you noted, struggled to get the wheel and cassette off to replace them with new, spare spokes. I’m going to make up a couple of these emergency spokes before my next tour to save myself the time and frustration of replacing broken spokes on the road. Thanks much for this very useful tip.
I'm really happy my video is helpful, Rivnuts. I hope you don't break any spokes out in the middle of nowhere but if you do I think you're going to love having some emergency spokes on hand and putting them in, too. Thanks a lot for watching and commenting!
I was thinking making a few as spares as well. Maybe even carry 'em in a cork in the seat post. Incidentally, the best lightweight tool I've seen, and own, for roadside cassette lockring removal is this fellow - th-cam.com/video/jcuUjEzsuT8/w-d-xo.html EDIT - I just weighed it. It's 17g(0.5oz) and 25mm(1") round
@@RadioSnivins thanks for watching, Radio! I used to tape the emergency spokes on my full size pump or on a chainstay on the bike just for easy access. That Unior tool is a new version of an old tool that used to be around but I can't remember who made the other one. It looked a little different but worked the same way. It's an excellent thing to have in your touring kit but you probably wouldn't ever need it if you have emergency spokes 🙂Thanks a lot for sharing the link and for the great comment!
You're very welcome, tedi, thank you for watching. I wish TH-cam let you post photos because I would like to see how you made your tool. It sounds very clever, good work!
Another great video!! I swear I have one of those inside my garage somewhere but I didn’t know what it was. It may be just something similar but I recognize that spring in between the handles.
If you have one that would be great, bjimbosld, please let me know if you find it and it's the same tool. Thanks for watching and the great comment. I hope you do have one.
Great video! Perfect timing I might add! I'm in a dilemma trying to replace a spoke next to the freewheel, just like in this video! Just a quick question though... In researching spoke lengths, I keep hearing that spokes have to be EXACT length within 1-2mm. Is this correct? And if so, how does one get the exact length figured out when accounting for the z-bend? Any information you can provide would be greatly appreciated my friend! I'm so glad I found your channel! You're definitely a God send!
Thanks a lot for watching, I’m happy my video is helping you out. Spoke length is important. Thing is when a spoke breaks, you can usually measure it from the bend to the end of the thread to get the length you need - if it’s in 2pieces line them up to measure. Then when you make your Z spoke you make it measures about the same from the end of its threads to the first bend on the spoke. As long as it’s within a few mm of the length of the broken spoke it should work fine. If you don’t get the length right first time just try again with another Z spoke. Okay? Hope this helps and thanks again!
Thank you for this video. A large rider I went to a track bike to break fewer spokes! I carry a Trixie tool with chain links attached and a spare spoke inside the aero bar! My other bike carries a Stein cassette tool and a spoke taped to the frame. I replace all the spokes after the third one breaks! This may be a quicker option as I have fully replaced a spoke on both bikes! It hasn't mattered who built the wheel, obviously use high spoke count, factory built , me, or someone else! Also, never build a wheel with aluminum nipples!
Thanks a lot for watching and the interesting comment, David! You're smart to be prepared with the right tools. I think you'll enjoy how easy it is to fix a wheel with a broken spoke with an emergency spoke if you give it a try. It's much faster, too. I do wonder why you break so many spokes. Are you using the best spokes? I really like DT Swiss spokes and Sapim spokes. If you're on some other brand/type, you might try upgrading. The most common cause of breakage is poor quality spokes. Thanks again!
I think 3 cross is better than 2 cross for fixed gear. Skid braking, though I don't do it much, places huge loads on the static spokes when you weigh 250lbs and are a strong rider! I've snapped DT Swiss Champion spokes too. Generally the back wheel doesn't rub with 1 broken spoke, since there isn't a rear caliper on a track bike. Also got to use 28mm tires with at least 90psi to avoid pinch flats.
@@davidburgess741 it sounds like you're trying the right things to prevent breakage. Did you go up to 36 spokes? If not, you might try that. Another thing is tying and soldering the spokes at the crosses - a little bit old school but some builders still believe it significantly strengthens the wheels and increases spoke longevity. Here's my friend Charles Wells talking about it and showing it: th-cam.com/video/B4CVc0hM5AU/w-d-xo.html and th-cam.com/video/Xu-esTutXAU/w-d-xo.html
Where are you going to find a 36 hole track hub? 36 hole rims can be had in box section. I'd go for that setup with alacrity! My other bike has 36 spoke Tipo hubs and they are fine. The modern rig is Shimano 24 spoke 10 speed with 8 sprockets and spacers, OLD reduced to 129mm to "fit" 126mm frame. This is tempting fate. I found aluminum nipples next to this seldom used classic on the floor! One had failed during a century, but friends don't let friends build with aluminum nipples! All brass now. You can't solder stainless spokes. Galvanized are hard to find and potentially stronger. Stainless gives up some tensile strength for corrosion resistance. Also makes spoke replacement harder. Been there with epoxy added to compensate!
@@davidburgess741 thanks for the great reply, David, fun stuff ;-) You can buy 36-hole track hubs on eBay though maybe not the quality you would like but even less fancy hubs usually hold up just fine as long as they've got enough grease in them. Aluminum nipples are used on the majority of new wheelsets out there so they can work, but I sure wouldn't recommend them for heavy-duty use and especially if there's corrosive weather/conditions or tubeless sealant or if the wheel will need regular truing/tensioning/spoke replacement and so on. Yes, you can tie and solder stainless spokes. That's all most pro builders use today. The video I linked to is happening with stainless spokes. It does make spoke replacement harder but tying and soldering makes spoke breakage much less likely. I've seen wheels built by legend Spence Wolfe in 1953 that were tied and soldered by him back then and still straight and true. But if you go to 36 spokes that might be the end of your spoke breakage right there, too. Hope you find a solution that works for you, good luck!
This is a Z-bend, and used to be commonly-used on model planes, for connecting servos to control surfaces. There is a very simple way to make Z-bends that have good, 90-degree bends ... using just a vice and a pair of pliers. I don't think I can explain it, verbally, tho. You can buy tools for making Z-bends ... check your local model plane shop. Oh, I meant to ask whether you know any way to re-furbish or replace pitted cups in hubs.
Thanks so much for sharing this tip, RC Fokker, very interesting and helpful. I searched on Amazon again and I think I might have found the tool you're describing and it's only $9. Here it is: amzn.to/3OpBDsg I can't tell if a spoke would fit in it but it looks like it might or you could probably enlarge them if not. Thanks for the great tip! For pitted cups in hubs I've never had much luck fixing them unfortunately. If the pitting is really bad, I will replace the hub. For minor pitting you can usually keep the hub going for a long time by cleaning and repacking and putting in new bearings. It'll run a little rough but you're unlikely to ever feel it when riding. And if you keep cleaning and repacking the hub often, you might get lucky and have the new bearings you keep installing gradually smooth some of the pitting. You could also try spinning the hubs/wheels off the bike with some polishing/grinding compound inside the hubs to speed up the process, but it'll take time. A drill might speed up the process. If the cups are replaceable, I would read up on the process to learn how. Campagnolo hubs had replaceable cups but it was not easy to do it satisfactorily with basic bicycle tools. Good luck. If you figure out a great way to fix them, please share it.
@@JimLangley1 th-cam.com/video/pSP00hjOrUM/w-d-xo.html ... this guy shows how to make good Z-bends with pliers. A vice would help, tho. Thanks for the response re hubs.
@@JimLangley1 A typical push-rod, for which this tool is designed ... would be 2mm diameter, much-the-same as a wheel-spoke. A spoke is generally a little harder to bend, tho. I think you'll get the best results if you bend the spokes by hand, rather than with a special tool.
@@rcfokker1630 that's good to know, RC, thank you!! As I show in the video it's relatively easy to put the bend in the spoke with a diagonal cutter once you practice a little.
Very clever tool but its only good if you can get the old spoke out. Only last night, i had a spoke break with a very loud bang when i took a roundabout sharply . Unfortunately, it broke on the drive side and just at the nipple..i tied it up with a zip-tie, opened up the brake caliper and cycled the 2.5 miles back home.
Thanks for watching and the great comment Peter. It lets me talk about some issues with "modern" wheels, such as those built with aluminum nipples and those with tubeless tires with sealant inside. With aluminum nipples if the spokes aren't long enough the nipples can break at the rim. It'll act like a broken spoke but it's actually the nipple that broke. The same thing can happen if the water in the sealant reaches the aluminum nipples by getting under the rim tape. It corrodes the nipples and they break which seems like a broken spoke, but it's a broken nipple. When that happens you wouldn't replace the spoke to fix it you would replace the nipple and probably with a brass nipple instead of an aluminum nipple since it won't break. But, if your spoke breaks at the nipple end and there's not thread left on the end of the spoke, yes you would need to get the spoke out in order to put the emergency spoke in. It all depends on the hub design but you can often bend the spoke and work it out if you're determined enough but it does depend on the components. Fortunately that type of broken spoke is very rare because the main stress on spokes is at the elbow right at the hub. The thing is that if you carry emergency spokes another way to fix a spoke that breaks at the nipple is to remove the spoke from the nipple (you have to be able to do this or put in a new nipple), bend a loop about halfway down in the broken spoke. Now attach the emergency spoke to the nipple a few threads. Then bend a loop in the emergency spoke around the bend in the broken spoke so that the two spokes are connected. Then you'll be able to tighten the spoke and true the wheel. The spoke'll look awful but it'll work just fine. Thanks for another great comment, appreciate it!
I wonder if you could build a whole wheel with such spokes, perhaps for a rare or hard to replace size or to make a clown bike with off - centre hubs 😁
Yes, you can in most cases, Matthew. You would just use straight gauge spokes, which can be sized to whatever length you want since you don't have the smaller diameter section on double butteds to worry about. If you had a bunch of old spokes it could be the perfect use for them. Thanks for watching and the great comment!
yeah but how do you thread the nipple on to the spoke without taking the tire off - its too small to grab with your fingers ? and you can't swing pliers enough to get started and you might lose it in the rim if you loose the pliers grip.
Thanks for watching and the question adZ. The nipples shouldn’t be too short, standard length is 12mm. Also the rim strip or tape can help keep the nipples so you can hold them in position. So long as the nipple doesn’t go up and inside a hollow rim you’ll be okay. And gravity will let it fall back down. It’s the same issue anytime you replace any spoke and you can always “outsmart” the nipple to start threading the new spoke. It’s just a matter of looking at what you’re working with and figuring out how to hold the nipple or get it to stay accessible. It’s never that difficult. Hope this helps. Thanks again!!
@@OldTaima thanks for watching and the interesting idea OldTaima. But the length of the spoke is determined by the distance between the hub and rim hole so a broken spoke will be too short to reach. Now you could try bending it around spokes closer to the rim hole but tensioning it to true the wheel might prove problematic. And you’d need to secure it so that it wouldn’t move.
★ WATCH this video next about the ingenious Preciray wheel truing stand th-cam.com/video/H7b2ZXAZwVw/w-d-xo.html
Ha ha perfect hack just what I needed to know thank you
My pleasure Samuel! Thank you for watching and the great comment, appreciate it!
German engineering from old times! Nice.
Thanks for watching and commenting!
A viewer named Heinz Holger providing this great information about the tool:
It's called Eldi "Speichenkröpfer" No. 1036. Here is a catalogue from the 50s.
velopedia.online/File/SmallPdf/ELDI/ELDI%20Werkzeuge%20Prospekt%201950er%20Jahre
See page 11
I replied to Heinz:
Wow, this is wonderful, Heinz - exactly what I was hoping to find. Thank you so much for sharing it! My tool is either an earlier or later version because it's different but it's made for the same purpose and is great to see. Using Google's translator, here is the tool description for those who cannot read German (I noticed there is no ELDI mention of making emergency spokes with it - maybe that's a just a lucky coincidence):
Quoting from the catalog:
"Keeping all spoke lengths in stock is absurd, because it means dead capital. It's better to buy the ELDI spoke crimper, because you can use it to make any length you want yourself. So not just spokes for 20, 22, 24 or 26 wheels, but also spokes for every stroller, scooter or doll's pram etc. With the ELDI spoke crimper, you can do whatever you want fulfill immediately.
With one side first cut the spoke to the
desired length and then insert the end into the other head side. One push and the spoke is in the
desired length cranked. The annoying search for
the different lengths stops, you don't need a big one stock and no different types to reorder. The only thing you need is this ELDI spoke crimper."
I'd sure like to know more about this tool in the catalog to understand if it differs from the one I have. Now I know what it's called and when it was made so I'll keep looking. Thanks very much, Heinz. You made my day!!
I have seen this z-bend before and I think it must have been an entire wheel laced with spokes bent like that. I remember being impressed that one would be able to poke it in end first and that it could hold tension. It never occurred to me that I could myself bend a spoke like that to get a length I didn't have - doh!
I have, though, straightened J-bends to get a length of straight pull I didn't have so a bikepacker could keep going.
@@dmrfnk thanks for watching and commenting, Dimar, appreciate it! Straightening a J-bend to "make" a straight pull is a clever trick in itself.. good thinking! And, it is possible that the Z bend spokes you saw were production spokes laced into that wheel. The spoke maker Hoshi used to make Z bend aero spokes in the early 80's because their bladed spokes were way to wide to fit through spoke holes and it took a lot of time to file slots in the holes to make their spokes fit.
Awesome! At first glance I thought it was just a cable cutter. Thanks for sharing the old cool tool and trick for the bag of tricks👍👍👍👍
I'm happy you enjoyed the tool and bag of tricks, Tim🙂. Thanks a lot for watching and the great comment!
I filed off most of a spoke head earlier today to allow me to insert it in the hub without removing the sprocket cluster. It's another way of getting the spoke fitted on the hub with minimal tools.
Thanks for watching and the comment. That's an interesting idea. The only thing is that if most of the head is gone the questions is what's holding the spoke in the hub?
That’s and awesome tool Jim
Thanks for sharing 👍
I always learn something new from your videos
Much appreciate your efforts to spread the word 👍
You're welcome, Mike. Thanks a lot for watching. I'm happy you enjoyed this video and appreciate your nice comment!
Japanese Hoshi spokes used the same kind of end without being “emergency” spokes back in the day. I’ve built up some wheels with them. Got some more laying around somewhere.
Thanks for watching and commenting, David. Yes, I'm familiar with Hoshi spokes - I showed them in a TH-cam community post on my channel here: tinyurl.com/ynd2meu6. When aero spokes first came along in the early 1980s, Hoshi used the Z bends on their aero/bladed spokes because their spokes were too wide at the aero/blade section to fit through spoke holes. We used to slot the hub spoke holes with hand files to get aero spokes into the hub, which took forever and meant masking the hubs to prevent the metal filings getting inside the hub bearings. It was so nice not to have to do that when the Hoshi spokes came along. But they would work well as emergency spokes so long as you could get them in the size you need for your wheels. With the tool you can make any length you need. But the Hoshi spokes are very cool. Thanks for the great comment.
Awesome video Jim as always. I think this tool eventually was destined for you to find it, definitely belongs in your tool box!
In all my years I've never heard of emergency spokes let alone a tool to make them.
Every day's a school day, thanks Jim.
Thanks for the great comment, Graham. I do believe some tools have found me like this. I'm glad you enjoyed the video and this old tool and appreciate you watching and commenting!
This is a great video. I’ve broken several rear drive side spokes and, as you noted, struggled to get the wheel and cassette off to replace them with new, spare spokes. I’m going to make up a couple of these emergency spokes before my next tour to save myself the time and frustration of replacing broken spokes on the road. Thanks much for this very useful tip.
I'm really happy my video is helpful, Rivnuts. I hope you don't break any spokes out in the middle of nowhere but if you do I think you're going to love having some emergency spokes on hand and putting them in, too. Thanks a lot for watching and commenting!
I was thinking making a few as spares as well. Maybe even carry 'em in a cork in the seat post. Incidentally, the best lightweight tool I've seen, and own, for roadside cassette lockring removal is this fellow - th-cam.com/video/jcuUjEzsuT8/w-d-xo.html
EDIT - I just weighed it. It's 17g(0.5oz) and 25mm(1") round
@@RadioSnivins thanks for watching, Radio! I used to tape the emergency spokes on my full size pump or on a chainstay on the bike just for easy access. That Unior tool is a new version of an old tool that used to be around but I can't remember who made the other one. It looked a little different but worked the same way. It's an excellent thing to have in your touring kit but you probably wouldn't ever need it if you have emergency spokes 🙂Thanks a lot for sharing the link and for the great comment!
Wow, never heard of such a thing.
@@jacobusdegroot7557 thanks for watching and commenting Jacob. Glad you liked the video. 🙏
Brilliant! Thank You for showing!
You're very welcome Rodelman, thank you for watching and commenting!
G'day, Jim. That's something I didn't know, but I do now. Thanks. Hooroo, Jim. Cooee.
G,day, Radio! You're very welcome and thank you for watching and commenting! I'm glad you enjoyed the video!
This is very enlightening…….thanks for making us all aware….
You're very welcome, Graydon! Thank you for watching and the nice comment!
Brilliant! Never knew about emergency spokes.
I'm happy you like the video, Ben! Thanks for watching and the nice comment.
Wow. This looks like a great tool and good advice to get people up and going right away. That's awesome.
Thanks a lot for watching and the great comment, Locks!!
Just discovered your channel. It´s pure gold! Thanks for sharing your knowledge.
You're very welcome, Pablo! Thank you for watching and the nice comment!
Brilliant !
Glad you like it, Sylvain, thank you for watching!
Thank you for the inspiration. I have made myself a similar tool. By making a slit in my plier's nose
You're very welcome, tedi, thank you for watching. I wish TH-cam let you post photos because I would like to see how you made your tool. It sounds very clever, good work!
Another great video!! I swear I have one of those inside my garage somewhere but I didn’t know what it was.
It may be just something similar but I recognize that spring in between the handles.
If you have one that would be great, bjimbosld, please let me know if you find it and it's the same tool. Thanks for watching and the great comment. I hope you do have one.
Great video! Perfect timing I might add! I'm in a dilemma trying to replace a spoke next to the freewheel, just like in this video!
Just a quick question though...
In researching spoke lengths, I keep hearing that spokes have to be EXACT length within 1-2mm. Is this correct? And if so, how does one get the exact length figured out when accounting for the z-bend?
Any information you can provide would be greatly appreciated my friend! I'm so glad I found your channel! You're definitely a God send!
Thanks a lot for watching, I’m happy my video is helping you out. Spoke length is important. Thing is when a spoke breaks, you can usually measure it from the bend to the end of the thread to get the length you need - if it’s in 2pieces line them up to measure. Then when you make your Z spoke you make it measures about the same from the end of its threads to the first bend on the spoke. As long as it’s within a few mm of the length of the broken spoke it should work fine. If you don’t get the length right first time just try again with another Z spoke. Okay? Hope this helps and thanks again!
I was right cutter and bender. 😊
Good job 👏- not too many people figure it out until they see it used. Thanks a lot for watching and commenting, appreciate it!
Awesome
Thanks for watching and the nice comment Tedi, appreciate it!
Thank you for this video. A large rider I went to a track bike to break fewer spokes! I carry a Trixie tool with chain links attached and a spare spoke inside the aero bar! My other bike carries a Stein cassette tool and a spoke taped to the frame. I replace all the spokes after the third one breaks! This may be a quicker option as I have fully replaced a spoke on both bikes! It hasn't mattered who built the wheel, obviously use high spoke count, factory built , me, or someone else! Also, never build a wheel with aluminum nipples!
Thanks a lot for watching and the interesting comment, David! You're smart to be prepared with the right tools. I think you'll enjoy how easy it is to fix a wheel with a broken spoke with an emergency spoke if you give it a try. It's much faster, too. I do wonder why you break so many spokes. Are you using the best spokes? I really like DT Swiss spokes and Sapim spokes. If you're on some other brand/type, you might try upgrading. The most common cause of breakage is poor quality spokes. Thanks again!
I think 3 cross is better than 2 cross for fixed gear. Skid braking, though I don't do it much, places huge loads on the static spokes when you weigh 250lbs and are a strong rider! I've snapped DT Swiss Champion spokes too. Generally the back wheel doesn't rub with 1 broken spoke, since there isn't a rear caliper on a track bike. Also got to use 28mm tires with at least 90psi to avoid pinch flats.
@@davidburgess741 it sounds like you're trying the right things to prevent breakage. Did you go up to 36 spokes? If not, you might try that. Another thing is tying and soldering the spokes at the crosses - a little bit old school but some builders still believe it significantly strengthens the wheels and increases spoke longevity. Here's my friend Charles Wells talking about it and showing it: th-cam.com/video/B4CVc0hM5AU/w-d-xo.html and th-cam.com/video/Xu-esTutXAU/w-d-xo.html
Where are you going to find a 36 hole track hub? 36 hole rims can be had in box section. I'd go for that setup with alacrity! My other bike has 36 spoke Tipo hubs and they are fine. The modern rig is Shimano 24 spoke 10 speed with 8 sprockets and spacers, OLD reduced to 129mm to "fit" 126mm frame. This is tempting fate. I found aluminum nipples next to this seldom used classic on the floor! One had failed during a century, but friends don't let friends build with aluminum nipples! All brass now. You can't solder stainless spokes. Galvanized are hard to find and potentially stronger. Stainless gives up some tensile strength for corrosion resistance. Also makes spoke replacement harder. Been there with epoxy added to compensate!
@@davidburgess741 thanks for the great reply, David, fun stuff ;-) You can buy 36-hole track hubs on eBay though maybe not the quality you would like but even less fancy hubs usually hold up just fine as long as they've got enough grease in them. Aluminum nipples are used on the majority of new wheelsets out there so they can work, but I sure wouldn't recommend them for heavy-duty use and especially if there's corrosive weather/conditions or tubeless sealant or if the wheel will need regular truing/tensioning/spoke replacement and so on. Yes, you can tie and solder stainless spokes. That's all most pro builders use today. The video I linked to is happening with stainless spokes. It does make spoke replacement harder but tying and soldering makes spoke breakage much less likely. I've seen wheels built by legend Spence Wolfe in 1953 that were tied and soldered by him back then and still straight and true. But if you go to 36 spokes that might be the end of your spoke breakage right there, too. Hope you find a solution that works for you, good luck!
This is a Z-bend, and used to be commonly-used on model planes, for connecting servos to control surfaces. There is a very simple way to make Z-bends that have good, 90-degree bends ... using just a vice and a pair of pliers. I don't think I can explain it, verbally, tho.
You can buy tools for making Z-bends ... check your local model plane shop.
Oh, I meant to ask whether you know any way to re-furbish or replace pitted cups in hubs.
Thanks so much for sharing this tip, RC Fokker, very interesting and helpful. I searched on Amazon again and I think I might have found the tool you're describing and it's only $9. Here it is: amzn.to/3OpBDsg I can't tell if a spoke would fit in it but it looks like it might or you could probably enlarge them if not. Thanks for the great tip!
For pitted cups in hubs I've never had much luck fixing them unfortunately. If the pitting is really bad, I will replace the hub. For minor pitting you can usually keep the hub going for a long time by cleaning and repacking and putting in new bearings. It'll run a little rough but you're unlikely to ever feel it when riding. And if you keep cleaning and repacking the hub often, you might get lucky and have the new bearings you keep installing gradually smooth some of the pitting.
You could also try spinning the hubs/wheels off the bike with some polishing/grinding compound inside the hubs to speed up the process, but it'll take time. A drill might speed up the process. If the cups are replaceable, I would read up on the process to learn how. Campagnolo hubs had replaceable cups but it was not easy to do it satisfactorily with basic bicycle tools. Good luck. If you figure out a great way to fix them, please share it.
@@JimLangley1 th-cam.com/video/pSP00hjOrUM/w-d-xo.html ... this guy shows how to make good Z-bends with pliers. A vice would help, tho.
Thanks for the response re hubs.
My father had one for RC planes. The threaded spoke end matched the threads for the attachment part at the bell crank!
@@JimLangley1 A typical push-rod, for which this tool is designed ... would be 2mm diameter, much-the-same as a wheel-spoke. A spoke is generally a little harder to bend, tho. I think you'll get the best results if you bend the spokes by hand, rather than with a special tool.
@@rcfokker1630 that's good to know, RC, thank you!! As I show in the video it's relatively easy to put the bend in the spoke with a diagonal cutter once you practice a little.
Very clever tool but its only good if you can get the old spoke out. Only last night, i had a spoke break with a very loud bang when i took a roundabout sharply . Unfortunately, it broke on the drive side and just at the nipple..i tied it up with a zip-tie, opened up the brake caliper and cycled the 2.5 miles back home.
Thanks for watching and the great comment Peter. It lets me talk about some issues with "modern" wheels, such as those built with aluminum nipples and those with tubeless tires with sealant inside. With aluminum nipples if the spokes aren't long enough the nipples can break at the rim. It'll act like a broken spoke but it's actually the nipple that broke. The same thing can happen if the water in the sealant reaches the aluminum nipples by getting under the rim tape. It corrodes the nipples and they break which seems like a broken spoke, but it's a broken nipple. When that happens you wouldn't replace the spoke to fix it you would replace the nipple and probably with a brass nipple instead of an aluminum nipple since it won't break.
But, if your spoke breaks at the nipple end and there's not thread left on the end of the spoke, yes you would need to get the spoke out in order to put the emergency spoke in. It all depends on the hub design but you can often bend the spoke and work it out if you're determined enough but it does depend on the components. Fortunately that type of broken spoke is very rare because the main stress on spokes is at the elbow right at the hub.
The thing is that if you carry emergency spokes another way to fix a spoke that breaks at the nipple is to remove the spoke from the nipple (you have to be able to do this or put in a new nipple), bend a loop about halfway down in the broken spoke. Now attach the emergency spoke to the nipple a few threads. Then bend a loop in the emergency spoke around the bend in the broken spoke so that the two spokes are connected. Then you'll be able to tighten the spoke and true the wheel. The spoke'll look awful but it'll work just fine. Thanks for another great comment, appreciate it!
@@JimLangley1 Great advice, thanks again
I wonder if you could build a whole wheel with such spokes, perhaps for a rare or hard to replace size or to make a clown bike with off - centre hubs 😁
Yes, you can in most cases, Matthew. You would just use straight gauge spokes, which can be sized to whatever length you want since you don't have the smaller diameter section on double butteds to worry about. If you had a bunch of old spokes it could be the perfect use for them. Thanks for watching and the great comment!
yeah but how do you thread the nipple on to the spoke without taking the tire off - its too small to grab with your fingers ? and you can't swing pliers enough to get started and you might lose it in the rim if you loose the pliers grip.
Thanks for watching and the question adZ. The nipples shouldn’t be too short, standard length is 12mm. Also the rim strip or tape can help keep the nipples so you can hold them in position. So long as the nipple doesn’t go up and inside a hollow rim you’ll be okay. And gravity will let it fall back down. It’s the same issue anytime you replace any spoke and you can always “outsmart” the nipple to start threading the new spoke. It’s just a matter of looking at what you’re working with and figuring out how to hold the nipple or get it to stay accessible. It’s never that difficult. Hope this helps. Thanks again!!
Radio control airplane guys have z bend pliers. Makes the same shape but doesn't cut tbe wire.
Thanks a lot for watching and the helpful information, rcdogman!
Can't you make an emergency spoke out of the broken one of you bypass the 3 cross pattern anyway
@@OldTaima thanks for watching and the interesting idea OldTaima. But the length of the spoke is determined by the distance between the hub and rim hole so a broken spoke will be too short to reach. Now you could try bending it around spokes closer to the rim hole but tensioning it to true the wheel might prove problematic. And you’d need to secure it so that it wouldn’t move.