Also hoping that one of you all will focus on parting tools for a vid. I run an old brown and sharp screw machine at work and we primarily use a HSS parting tool, I'm always trying to do better and better at the grind so as to get it to last through more and more parts. Would love to hear what tips and tricks you guys have for parting tools.
Adam, really love this series, particularly helpful for me who is just starting to learn. I like how you simplify the whole grinding process, everyone else seems to grind 14 different angles on every side...nice to see what you really need and what you can get away with. Would love to see a follow up video showing some HSS grinding on other tool bits, facing and boring specifically.
I learned quite a bit from this video. Your white board is a great edition as it puts the grinds to be made in a format I can understand. I am so glad you spend the time to teach, and not just machine. Thank you.
Thanks William. I liked seeing how the others use there white board to make nots and drawings for video use. I decided why not get one and try it out. It's a nice little addition to the shop.
Love these type of videos. A lot of the guys going into shops today will never have to deal with HSS tools. Its easy to take for granted how well carbide will break a chip because you can feed the crap out of them.
Hi Adam, Thank you so much for making this series of videos. This information is invaluable. It's as if we were working along side you, learning what different changes will do to the cut. That kind of information just isn't available except from someone like yourself who has the experience and knowledge. I like the whiteboard. Nice addition. Bill
Hey Adam, Nice work. I guess I better get busy. The chip breaker was working great. I have some of those dark un-ground rex bits as well. They seem to act a little different at my end here with coolant versus cutting oil. Nice presentation. Talk to you soon. Tom
Hey Tom, I had much better luck with the chip breaker style over the side rake tool. I guess that's why I used it so much all these years, its what dad showed me and has always worked good for everyday turning. It's also good on bronze, but with more of a sharp edge going into the groove. I'm ready to see your next video! I'm wondering what else the YAM has in store for us! Thanks for the comments. Talk to you later on buddy! Adam
This series of videos is the perfect video for a beginner. I learn a lot out of this series of videos because perfectly related and explained not only the tool angles but the feed rate and speed and how they work together to get the best cut. keep the good work!!!
Night and day difference between mist and oil, thanks for the comparison. I failed miserably at chip breaker grinding and now I know why, I always took the grind out to the cutting edge, you answered that by leaving a small flat, gonna try again!
Grinding it out to a sharp edge sometimes works when taking small light cuts, but on heavy cutting you will loose your edge very quickly. I like to leave a small flat there to strengthen the tool edge. On bronze or aluminum you can get away with a more sharp corner though. Lets see some video if you give it another go. Thanks Stan!
Yeap, you rarely ever want a knife edge on a metal cutting tool, they don't have enough strength and you get huge concentrations of heat in a fine edge with no surrounding material to pass the heat to. I would however recommend an approx 8-12 deg side rake angle on that small "flat" then the roughly 45-60 deg angle into the chip breaker. I find it easier to grind a nice chip breaker with a cut off disk in a 4” angle grinder, especially in small tools or where you need a long chip breaker, I find it easier to get a nice straight chip break groove that way than on the corner of a large grinding wheel. Of course you have a nice surface grinder, so you should be able to come up with a super precise chip breaker groove.
Abom79 thinking of chips you ever try middleswarth bbq chips u can only get them in a few states in the northeast if not let me know ill send ya some to try.
Brilliant video Adam. I would crap myself working that close to the chuck. Just shows how much experience you have with engineering machinery. Thanks for sharing mate. Enjoyed every moment with you teaching us.
Adam, I learned a lot from this video. I'll have to grind a chip breaker next time. I look forward to your next video on finish cuts. Thanks for sharing!
Very fun. You can take some stuff from the fine woodworking community on this topic, chip quality and rake are extremely important in woodworking. Maybe even more so than in metal working because woodworking machines are less rigid. If you look at tools with chip breakers (mostly hand planes), the chip breaker is adjustable. The closer to the edge, the faster it breaks the chip. Moving the breaker away gives a longer chip, but a long chip tends to tear up the surface since it is pulling on the fibers. You can see the same thing happening in the really long chip you made, one side is a different color from the other where the metal was actually stretched as it was pulled out of the stock. Moving the breaker too close will cause the chip to compress and cause chatter on the surface as the chip compress then breaks repeatedly, You can see the same chatter marks on the work. Getting the breaker just right will leave small cracks on the outside of the curl. It is important that the curl roll up and snap off rather than compress and break. You'r perfect chips all have nice evenly spaced cracks on them. On the subject of rake. Rake angle and feed rate must be done together. As the tool enters the work, it is pulled deeper into the cut. You see issues like this with band saws in woodworking. The blade is constantly being pulled into the work, and can actually pull the blade off the tires if the feed is too slow. My band saw is so big you can walk upright through an unfolded blade. I can cut 1/16" thick veneer of a 12" wide board. The chips are miniature curls when I have the feed rate right. Find a feed rate that works with your rake, then find a chip breaker position that works with that ad you will be a very happy camper. Not saying anything you do not know. I am just saying it from a different point of view that might get you thinking of different ways to get a good result.
Thanks for the vid Adam. And thanks to you and Tom for starting this topic and teaching me so much about hss tools and grinding my own. Looking forward to the finish cut lessons. Have a great Memorial day, I'm sure you won't forget to take a moment to reflect on your lost service men and women,
Thank Steve. I enjoyed watching you HOG that metal off the little Atlas lathe. I'm just showing you guys what works for me, and I'm glad your enjoying it. Have a good Memorial Day!
Nice set of video's!! When I was in class for the manual machining our instructor showed us this but I was the only one that would go in on our off days if he was there and worked on my projects or I would get to work beside him doing all kinds of things and how you explained this reminds me of him and those 1 to 1 lesson's made a huge difference for the speed and finish of the parts I make. Besides it's great to work with someone that has 40+ years of machining experience just to watch how he worked the machine was great to see. Brian
do know what i like about you? you just seem like a genuinely nice guy. you look like a hard worker with a real love for want you do and you take time out to share your knowledge with the world. thats just a really lovely thing to do man. im not a metal worker, im a carpenter from Australia but i just love watching your videos as you are very informative and your teachings are easy to follow for us people not in the industry. so thank you
Hey Adam great job I learned a lot, I had a monarch just like yours but when moved to FL. I brought my 17x40 Kerry and Bridgeport had to sell the monarch Thanks for the great info I look forward to watching them and learning.
Very impressive ! For what it's worth, if you hook an amp meter across the incoming electrical supply, you will have an indication of how effective your tool angles are, obviously the higher amperage draw, the less efficient your tool is cutting, a very simple, and recordable indication. Chris.
Hey Adam, Excellent Chip Control episode, great tips on tool bit grinds, and thanks for the shout out! I better get my butt in gear and make some chips this week!!! Thanks bud, Ray
One day on the Jig borer in the Tool Room, I was not properly watching what I was doing, I had a pilot hole and came down with the next drill a bit hard and quick, I saved the bits, they would have made beautiful earring dangly bits, sadly lost now.
Dam... That was awesome, i cant believe that tool survived a heavy cut like that. Going try it out on my 9 x 20 harbor freight lathe. im sure ill get 1 1/4 cut out of her too lol haha. cant wait to see the video on how to grind the tool to get a good finish. i always find it hard to get that right. Great video Adam
Hi Adam, Definite proof that different grinds can achieve similar results, just like there being so often several right ways of machining to make the same part... My personal grind for this bit of fun, would be to use back rake, about 8 degrees or a fuzz more, and a bit larger radius on the point more than a 64th but less than a 32nd... I've found that you don't have to raise the bit with back rake as long as the point of contact is on center... And still in the end, there really is no absolute! I've gotten good results with, and am more often a fan of oil, and coolmist too (but a bit thicker mix than instructed on coolmist) This is a great series guys and a beautiful bunch of instruction! As Sam says the show goes on! :o] O,
Thanks O. Its fun experimenting with different grinds, and it's proven by many that theres several that provide good results. I like the chip breaker style myself, and can take alot of metal on mild steel better than with a typical side rake tool. I have used some with back rake also and they work just fine. I say just use what works best for you, and if your happy with the chips, and finishes, then go for it.
Adam nice job I look forward to your next video on getting a good surface finish. For me that is most important I can take time to remove material, I don't want to push the machines since they are not mine. Trying to dress up a poor surface finish cut is way harder than nibbling away at stock to get to size.
In the next video I'll show some finishing cuts in cold rolled. If you get the grind and home right, it'll leave a silky smooth finish. The heavy cuts we've been showing isn't common, were just having a little fun seeing what the machine and tool can handle. Thanks Bill.
All the guys are sharing some great insights on tool grinding. So many guys can accomplish the similar results, with different machines and tools, angles, feed rates etc etc. The tool cutting & honing tutorials are great. That's a nice white board & your business cards look great! Great idea to share your super secrete email buddy! Kellly
Thanks adam i know a little bit about how much effort goes into making a video i tried to make one and gave up i love that chipbreaker tool im making one thanks again.
In the 50s in high school we made our own tools like you did then in the 80s I got put in the machine shop at Farmall tractor works I don't know that any one made tools any more with all the inverts available, I did see long chips that would cut you bad, keep up the good work
Love the chip control series - I have got a round bed lathe from the early 1940s (approx. 20" between centers), and there's no day that I don't try to optimize the depth of roughing cuts I can take with the machine still being able to cope with it (no nasty vibrations a.s.o) - I've been getting around 4mm depth of cut recently, and I am really proud of that LOL Maybe I can experiment with the tool geometry a bit to knock even more out :D Cheers Adrian
Hey Adam I use to use that same cool mist system in the tool room and the oil we use was the one you mix with water and turns a whitish color. Nice video Adam I wish I was back in the tool room man.
I used to use the soluble oil in my old mister years ago, but i noticed it tends to fog the shop worse. This blue stuff from Kool Mist is supposed to cut down on the fogging and be more safe. it does what I need it for those, mostly cooling for the milling machine. Thanks Ruben.
I've been looking forward to this installment and as always I learn something new. Funny how things stick with you though, I could not help but think of the chip control videos yesterday while hogging down a big chunk of Al for some bushings. I ended up fooling around with my feed a bit looking for a better chip.
One thing I use on chips that can't be controlled is rapidly disengaging the feed to break the chip. Good for roughing cuts. Finish cut is a different beast.
That chip breaker tool works Great ..Seeing all those chips made me hungry for some Onion Chips and Curly Fries !!! This will be a Great video to Refer back to
That big glob of chips from your 5/8" cut is bigger than many of our finished products! I'm looking forward to the video about making a nice finish. I just finished up making a taper attachment for my Clausing 5914 and a smooth finish will be important for me. On my first test with the taper jig, I produced about 50' of wire, instead of chips. (check my last video) First run on my home-built lathe taper attachment
Very entertaining and educating at the same time, thank you again for making such great videos. I watch allot of them since I prefer TH-cam to TV, and you make a great show...If only I were a network executive, I would have a show with all of you guys making cool stuff... Nah, you have a very good life though, don't let me ruin that by letting the Hollweird people find you and turn your artform into a gameshow. You have already got this show checking all of the boxes when it comes to how I like to spend any time that I'm either hiding from the sun, resting my bad back, or just to fill those weeknights at home. All of you guys that have worked together to "chip" away at my ignorance and "control" my desire to work a lathe while I have to just dream about it for now, LOL! At least with all of this information on the web, I will learn a few tricks before that dream becomes a reality. Well, hopefully I will get lucky one day and find an old sweet widow with a pristine Monarch or Brideport under a blanket in the garage she'll give me for cleaning her rain gutters and clipping her lawn, he he! Until then I'll still be watching the Mad Machinist's Club here on TH-cam...Aloha until next time, Chuckie PS I think I fixed my settings Tom, so hopefully I can "Hear" you...so to speak. I'm still pretty new to communicating and watching videos of real value online, so I appreciate the heads up, Thank you.
Hi Adam, So far with the new lathe I've only tried carbide inserts, like 1300 RPM on a 2 inches CR stock, .007 per revolution feed and .500 radius deep, geezzzz the chips were flying like a hail storm... Good thing, the bigger chips where breaking about only 3/8" long. I will get into high speed a little later, if I start that now, the reorganization marathon will never end. It will be like your shop a "Never Ending Story". Cheers, Pierre
I know this is an old video but I just got to watching it. I'll give the chip breaker a try on my lathe. I use 1/4 HSS on it, but I've had trouble getting it to cut clean at times, it makes strings on most steel. I've been using the old textbook grinds like your first tool was.
Like you I've never found a "traditional" ground tool to be good with chip control. You have to incorporate a chipbreaker in there for heavier cuts or the stringy chip is gonna happen. I generally use a rotary type tool like a die grinder or dremel as I find it hard to see what I'm doing on the bench grinder. Colin
The chip breakers have always worked best for me. I use side rake and back rake grinds once in a while for cutting bronze, plastics, or grooves. That big grinder helps when grinding those grooves though.
Hey Adam, That Monarch is one bad ass lathe! I think you should take those stringy chips, spray them with some kind of plastic coating so they don't rust. Cut then into about 3" lengths and make some ear rings for Elana. :-) You could go into the jewelery business and make some $$$ on the side! Thanks for all your work and for the explanations. BTW, I love the white board! Regards, Dave
Abom79 That's a great idea Adam! Save all your stringy chips, paint them different colors and sell them at the flea market. The "artsy types" will go nuts over them and pay you a ton of $$$! A new business has evolved: Booth Ornaments. The chips might make great wind chimes also! Dave
Can you imagine a dumpster filled with those giant curly razor springs just opening up and dumping a 500 pound wad of them on the freeway?!? LOL, what a crazy mess that would be! Oh man...even worse, have that same ball rolling through the middle of town in a tornado, that would be about the worst thing you could find flying through a storm...creepy.
Awesome! Been having trouble with birds when cutting cold rolled these days lol. I'm gonna have to try that chip breaker magic you got going on there. Although, your idea of a small chip is a little different than mine 😂. Thanks again for the tips, Adam! 👍🙂👍
Nice video Adam Some good camera angles That chip breaker makes a massive difference I hate "stringy chips" Amazing the way you made the metal "vanish" Regards John
Hey Adam, I think if you work a little back rake into that chip breaker you will be pleased. I find that helps keep the chip moving away from the work, rather than curling up around the front of the tool holder. Hmmmm, maybe its time to do some more videos.
Yes the back rake works good too, and I've seen in it action by my own doing. I like trying to keep my cutting edge straight and a neutral rake so that I don't have to adjust the tool height each time I touch it up. Just my preference.
yes Mr. Kilroy it is time for more videos lol i look every day but nope no new ones i have no cable you guys are my tv (tv is joke anymore and the news just lies and the weather is never right) so y pay for junk when i watch youtube for free so lets go get your butt in gear and make some hehe all jokeing aside thanks for your hard wok the gos in to making the video
good stuff something I think to try is add a "side wall" bent piece of sheet metal under the tool to stop the chip from wrapping around the tool and send it to the chip pan. I'm thinking this may cause the string chip to break or at least stop the wrap up on the tool anyway you and the gang are doing your part to teach use the finer points on machine work and I thank you for that
Ditto the nice work Adam. Video comment: At 31:26 you remove the camera for a hand held view and the machines saddle noise goes away. As a thought, you might experiment with various rubber or foam isolating mounts to try to eliminate noise from transferring into the camera.
I went back to listen to it at 10:00, before you switched to the protective case. It seems it is the case that is amplifying the noise, like using a stethoscope.
That takes a solid powerful lathe to do that.🙂 I know I'm 9 years late but a similar test on something like a 10" southbend or Logan would be interesting.
Great video - I am not a professional like you but here is an observation (please don't laugh! :) It appears the chip breaker may work better if two parts of it were modified: The chip length before breakup should be proportional to the distance from the cutting edge to the "back" of the gouge - where it turns up - that is the larger the distance to the upturn in the chip breaker gouge the longer the chip length. If there were no chip breaker the length would be very long. Second, the sharpness of the end of the chip breaker gouge opposite the cutting edge should assist the break off of the cut ribbon. The gouge turn upward angle sharpness makes the chip make a sharp turn upward at this rear edge and the sharper the turn the more chance of breaking the work hardened chip into pieces. Thanks for the well made videos!
I think you were steering those big chips to turn to the outside of the steel shaft and then were able to come around and roll up around the cutting tool, I think that if you kept the tool flat flush against the face of the chuck the steel would curl up and hit the steel shaft and make a big curl and snap off, or even turn a little more so it cuts on the outside edge first then the tool tip cuts last forcing the chip into the center of the steel shaft and snapping off. I hope this makes sense! Brad Fisher
Wow, I've never seen that big a cut come off before. That Monarch is one strong lathe. I noticed that it didn't take you long to handle that hot chip. LOL See ya Mark
I didn't think they were going to be that hot, but looks can be deceiving. The Monarch is a strong smooth running machine, and I enjoy having it. Thanks Mark.
Thanks for the great video, I did notice you liked to touch the cutting tools up with a hone stone, in your opinion will this improve the performance of the final edge on the cutting tool, I am sure it will improve the edge and give it more durability, I look forward to seeing more of your video's
Im a non machinist ( woodturner) other than not wanting a six foot razor sharp chip flyin around, what is the importance of a small chip? Excellent videos. Im learning quite a bit.
Really interesting. My impression is it's the way they make blades for razors? Long straight chips? Anyway, when those big chips start whipping around, they stop looking like soft and friendly curly cues for a kid's Easter basket, and start looking like really hot blades for really big razors.... Thanks.
15:30 That's not a chip. That's a god damned Christmas tree ornament! "If you dare turn your back on the machine, you're simply not running it hard enough....."
I just watched both of these videos! Awesome!! I have a small lathe but this still relates to me because I am seeing how speeds and feeds along with tool geometry can increase efficiency and quality of the product. Without going through some videos to see where you mention it, can you tell me what kind of lathe this is that you are using in these 2 videos?
Well, it's out to the shop to grind some chip breakers. I have to make a few parts out of 17-4 stainless and without a chip breaker it almost cut me to ribbons!
I know this is a year old but just wanted to point out that if you angle your chip breaker groove away from the cutting edge a bit more it should cause the chip to curl around and hit the tool face again and so cause it to break and give you that perfect chip more often than not, feed speed permitting.
Hey Adam, great video. If I would try to take that much off using my grizzly something would break and I 'd be running out of the shop. What kind of cutting oil do you use, and if you get a chance can you go over the cool mist system? Thanks for taking time to share your shop with us. Buddy
Buddy, not all lathes are created equal, so be careful on the little Grizzly. Hell I'm not ever sure Monarch had those kinds of cuts in mind for my size lathe, it but it handled them well. The cutting oil is just dark cutting oil, the old school sulphur based stuff. You can find it most anywhere, even in hardware stores listed as thread cutting oil. Its good for many machining ops. Thanks Buddy!
Jeeeez, can't imagine the tonnage of pressure on that tool post and cutting tool. That lathe is a beast! What kind of HP and amperage does that lathe have? Learning a lot, great info Adam.
The motor is a 5 HP GE. Don't recall what the amperage is on the motor though, it's running on a 40 amp breaker. That type of heavy cutting does create a lot of force on the machine, and you can feel it when you release the feed. I could tell the chip breaker tool has less pressure than the side rake tool though.
I feel like I have to say Thank you for the videos that you put out, either for our entertainment and/or education. I cringe to think about how much that stock is costing you to just turn into chips for our viewing pleasure. I've never done any metal work and I've been watching your videos for a while now because I'm wanting to build a small cnc router and/or mill in my small shop. I do have a question about all those chips... What do you do with them? Do you have them recycled into more stock or just trash them? I know it isn't cheap for those large pieces of stock, so you must accumulate several pounds of chips after just a couple jobs. let me know what you do with those chips if you would, and again, Thank you for putting your time, your money and your expertise on display for our viewing. I for one truly appreciate it
Thanks Jeffry. We always sold our scrap metal to the local scrap yard. We used to go a few times a year, or when I filled up all the barrels. In my new shop I dont make that much waste, so it usually goes in the trash can. It's really not enough to worry about, and I dont have much time to take a couple cans to the scrap yard for just a few bucks worth of chips. Thank you for the nice comments on the videos.
Chips can be broke with more feed and less rpm. Just have to tweet it in. For a large depth of cut I would recommend a lower rpm and increase feed. I've taken .5 dia cuts with a half in tool bit and nothing bad happened. Be more aggressive and I think you will find better results with chip breaking.
Hey Adam, great video! Thanks. For those of us who have little experience with these chip-breaker tools: how do you re-sharpen them when they get dull? Do you grind the end back towards you and re-cut the groove?
Adam, that is one huge set of chips! Are you trying to make a grain augur or something? I was starting to think you weren't going to be satisfied until you got a "CLANG!!" when the chip hit the tray! Thanks for the lesson in tool grinding. I think I'm understanding the chip breaker idea now. If I am, I'm guessing that for those really big chips you almost need a wider groove that gets deeper as it moves back from the tip, so the chip will be bigger in diameter and spiral away from the cutting area, rather than looping back into it. Right? -- Mike
I was just trying to see what the old machine could handle. The chip breaker needs to be wider for those heavier cuts to allow the chip room to curl around. If you have a small groove for such a heavy cut it seems to just run over the groove and off the side like a side rake grind.
I think that if you would have changed your lead angle again and rotated your tool holder to present your tool where it hits on the O.D. of the part first and at the corner of the tool last with the heavy feed rate and 1" cut you would have directed the chip into the work face instead of curling out away from the work. I believe that when the chip hits the work face is when it would break. Just my observation.
Hi, I really like your videos and i've been watching them for some time now. I like how you get your speech in the video, but i don't like how machining noise comes in the video thru machine frame to gopro/camera frame and in to the microphone. I think some rubber or foam underneath the tripod mount or something would do the trick! Keep it going! Greetings from Finland!
I know this is an old post adam Wanted to ask Adam what's the name of the cutting oil Can your using in this video. Would sure love to get one. If I see any on eBay. Much nicer than the plastic bottle they sell now'er days but saying that Adam it would be a dream for me to have all that lovely machinery you have in your shop.
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Never knew you could do that with high speed tools, thanks Adam, 50 years in the business and still learning.
I'm really happy that everyone is keeping the video titles consistent, it is making it easy for me to find everyone elses channels.
Also hoping that one of you all will focus on parting tools for a vid. I run an old brown and sharp screw machine at work and we primarily use a HSS parting tool, I'm always trying to do better and better at the grind so as to get it to last through more and more parts. Would love to hear what tips and tricks you guys have for parting tools.
Adam, really love this series, particularly helpful for me who is just starting to learn. I like how you simplify the whole grinding process, everyone else seems to grind 14 different angles on every side...nice to see what you really need and what you can get away with. Would love to see a follow up video showing some HSS grinding on other tool bits, facing and boring specifically.
Outstanding video. Thanks Adam...
I learned quite a bit from this video. Your white board is a great edition as it puts the grinds to be made in a format I can understand. I am so glad you spend the time to teach, and not just machine. Thank you.
Thanks William. I liked seeing how the others use there white board to make nots and drawings for video use. I decided why not get one and try it out. It's a nice little addition to the shop.
Love these type of videos. A lot of the guys going into shops today will never have to deal with HSS tools. Its easy to take for granted how well carbide will break a chip because you can feed the crap out of them.
Hi Adam,
Thank you so much for making this series of videos. This information is invaluable. It's as if we were working along side you, learning what different changes will do to the cut.
That kind of information just isn't available except from someone like yourself who has the experience and knowledge.
I like the whiteboard. Nice addition.
Bill
Hey Adam,
Nice work. I guess I better get busy. The chip breaker was working great. I have some of those dark un-ground rex bits as well. They seem to act a little different at my end here with coolant versus cutting oil. Nice presentation.
Talk to you soon.
Tom
Hey Tom, I had much better luck with the chip breaker style over the side rake tool. I guess that's why I used it so much all these years, its what dad showed me and has always worked good for everyday turning. It's also good on bronze, but with more of a sharp edge going into the groove.
I'm ready to see your next video! I'm wondering what else the YAM has in store for us!
Thanks for the comments. Talk to you later on buddy!
Adam
This series of videos is the perfect video for a beginner. I learn a lot out of this series of videos because perfectly related and explained not only the tool angles but the feed rate and speed and how they work together to get the best cut. keep the good work!!!
Night and day difference between mist and oil, thanks for the comparison. I failed miserably at chip breaker grinding and now I know why, I always took the grind out to the cutting edge, you answered that by leaving a small flat, gonna try again!
Grinding it out to a sharp edge sometimes works when taking small light cuts, but on heavy cutting you will loose your edge very quickly. I like to leave a small flat there to strengthen the tool edge. On bronze or aluminum you can get away with a more sharp corner though.
Lets see some video if you give it another go.
Thanks Stan!
Yeap, you rarely ever want a knife edge on a metal cutting tool, they don't have enough strength and you get huge concentrations of heat in a fine edge with no surrounding material to pass the heat to.
I would however recommend an approx 8-12 deg side rake angle on that small "flat" then the roughly 45-60 deg angle into the chip breaker.
I find it easier to grind a nice chip breaker with a cut off disk in a 4” angle grinder, especially in small tools or where you need a long chip breaker, I find it easier to get a nice straight chip break groove that way than on the corner of a large grinding wheel.
Of course you have a nice surface grinder, so you should be able to come up with a super precise chip breaker groove.
Chips and morning coffee....great way to start the day
Enjoyed!
Chuck
Chips and coffee in the morning, and BBQ ribs in the evening! thats a good day!
Thanks Chuck!
Abom79 thinking of chips you ever try middleswarth bbq chips u can only get them in a few states in the northeast if not let me know ill send ya some to try.
You rock. I love the Young Adam booth videos. Look at that whiteboard!!! I really enjoy your TH-cam journey.
Brilliant video Adam. I would crap myself working that close to the chuck. Just shows how much experience you have with engineering machinery. Thanks for sharing mate. Enjoyed every moment with you teaching us.
Adam,
I learned a lot from this video. I'll have to grind a chip breaker next time. I look forward to your next video on finish cuts. Thanks for sharing!
Thanks Herb, give it a shot and let us know how it goes.
Good cuts Adam, the chip breaker really made the difference.
One of you best videos yet. Really informative. Useful information. Great presentation. Just great Adam. Thank you!
Very fun.
You can take some stuff from the fine woodworking community on this topic, chip quality and rake are extremely important in woodworking. Maybe even more so than in metal working because woodworking machines are less rigid.
If you look at tools with chip breakers (mostly hand planes), the chip breaker is adjustable. The closer to the edge, the faster it breaks the chip. Moving the breaker away gives a longer chip, but a long chip tends to tear up the surface since it is pulling on the fibers. You can see the same thing happening in the really long chip you made, one side is a different color from the other where the metal was actually stretched as it was pulled out of the stock.
Moving the breaker too close will cause the chip to compress and cause chatter on the surface as the chip compress then breaks repeatedly, You can see the same chatter marks on the work.
Getting the breaker just right will leave small cracks on the outside of the curl. It is important that the curl roll up and snap off rather than compress and break. You'r perfect chips all have nice evenly spaced cracks on them.
On the subject of rake. Rake angle and feed rate must be done together. As the tool enters the work, it is pulled deeper into the cut. You see issues like this with band saws in woodworking. The blade is constantly being pulled into the work, and can actually pull the blade off the tires if the feed is too slow. My band saw is so big you can walk upright through an unfolded blade. I can cut 1/16" thick veneer of a 12" wide board. The chips are miniature curls when I have the feed rate right.
Find a feed rate that works with your rake, then find a chip breaker position that works with that ad you will be a very happy camper.
Not saying anything you do not know. I am just saying it from a different point of view that might get you thinking of different ways to get a good result.
Thanks Adam for these 2 video's! I learned more in the past 1,5 hrs watching than reading books for a year :)
gertebert Thats awesome!
Thanks for the vid Adam. And thanks to you and Tom for starting this topic and teaching me so much about hss tools and grinding my own.
Looking forward to the finish cut lessons. Have a great Memorial day, I'm sure you won't forget to take a moment to reflect on your lost service men and women,
Thank Steve. I enjoyed watching you HOG that metal off the little Atlas lathe. I'm just showing you guys what works for me, and I'm glad your enjoying it.
Have a good Memorial Day!
Nice set of video's!! When I was in class for the manual machining our instructor showed us this but I was the only one that would go in on our off days if he was there and worked on my projects or I would get to work beside him doing all kinds of things and how you explained this reminds me of him and those 1 to 1 lesson's made a huge difference for the speed and finish of the parts I make. Besides it's great to work with someone that has 40+ years of machining experience just to watch how he worked the machine was great to see.
Brian
Thank you Adam for providing such a wonderful service.
do know what i like about you? you just seem like a genuinely nice guy. you look like a hard worker with a real love for want you do and you take time out to share your knowledge with the world. thats just a really lovely thing to do man. im not a metal worker, im a carpenter from Australia but i just love watching your videos as you are very informative and your teachings are easy to follow for us people not in the industry. so thank you
the depth of the cuts in this video are amazing, I can't see a HSS tool lasting all day doing cuts like that but man is it satisfying to see
Awesome video Series! Loved seeing some limits pushed and some experimentation it is a great way to learn thanks for sharing with us.
Hey Adam great job I learned a lot, I had a monarch just like yours but when moved to FL. I brought my 17x40 Kerry and Bridgeport had to sell the monarch Thanks for the great info I look forward to watching them and learning.
Adam Thanks for the video I have enjoyed watching it.
Hey Adam, between you and Tom, I might actually learn something on here!!! thanks for tackling the hard lessons and the stuff no-one else does.
Thank you for the education, Adam.
I understand chips a lot better now.
Good one Adam, was fun watching those big 5/8" chips curling up and breaking... Will be watching for next week's SNS...
I like the chip rose you made on the first cut after you switched to a relief angle.
Very impressive ! For what it's worth, if you hook an amp meter across the incoming electrical supply, you will have an indication of how effective your tool angles are, obviously the higher amperage draw, the less efficient your tool is cutting, a very simple, and recordable indication.
Chris.
Yep some heavy cuts there Adam, thanks for sharing
A ton of info there
Hey Adam,
Excellent Chip Control episode, great tips on tool bit grinds, and thanks for the shout out! I better get my butt in gear and make some chips this week!!!
Thanks bud,
Ray
Better get busy! Let's see what the Grizzly can do!
Thanks Ray!
great stuff and nice use of the whiteboard. like that you tried oil or coolant for the best chip control. did a re-check too.
The whiteboard is a very handy addition to any shop.
Wow that some big chips, also thank you for sharing this info. I really enjoyed the video.
Still love seeing these big chips!
You should make a collage with all those rolled chips. Never seen em so nice!
One day on the Jig borer in the Tool Room, I was not properly watching what I was doing, I had a pilot hole and came down with the next drill a bit hard and quick, I saved the bits, they would have made beautiful earring dangly bits, sadly lost now.
Dam... That was awesome, i cant believe that tool survived a heavy cut like that. Going try it out on my 9 x 20 harbor freight lathe. im sure ill get 1 1/4 cut out of her too lol haha. cant wait to see the video on how to grind the tool to get a good finish. i always find it hard to get that right. Great video Adam
I think your lathe will commit suicide at the first sight of a heavy cut! LOL
Good luck Stevo, and thanks for the comment.
Hi Adam, Definite proof that different grinds can achieve similar results, just like there being so often several right ways of machining to make the same part... My personal grind for this bit of fun, would be to use back rake, about 8 degrees or a fuzz more, and a bit larger radius on the point more than a 64th but less than a 32nd... I've found that you don't have to raise the bit with back rake as long as the point of contact is on center... And still in the end, there really is no absolute! I've gotten good results with, and am more often a fan of oil, and coolmist too (but a bit thicker mix than instructed on coolmist) This is a great series guys and a beautiful bunch of instruction! As Sam says the show goes on! :o]
O,
Thanks O. Its fun experimenting with different grinds, and it's proven by many that theres several that provide good results. I like the chip breaker style myself, and can take alot of metal on mild steel better than with a typical side rake tool. I have used some with back rake also and they work just fine. I say just use what works best for you, and if your happy with the chips, and finishes, then go for it.
Adam nice job I look forward to your next video on getting a good surface finish. For me that is most important I can take time to remove material, I don't want to push the machines since they are not mine. Trying to dress up a poor surface finish cut is way harder than nibbling away at stock to get to size.
In the next video I'll show some finishing cuts in cold rolled. If you get the grind and home right, it'll leave a silky smooth finish.
The heavy cuts we've been showing isn't common, were just having a little fun seeing what the machine and tool can handle.
Thanks Bill.
Those Big Chips Are Violent!!
All the guys are sharing some great insights on tool grinding.
So many guys can accomplish the similar results, with different machines and tools, angles, feed rates etc etc.
The tool cutting & honing tutorials are great.
That's a nice white board & your business cards look great!
Great idea to share your super secrete email buddy!
Kellly
I ain't ever seen a 1.5" cut before,thanks man!!
Thanks adam i know a little bit about how much effort goes into making a video i tried to make one and gave up i love that chipbreaker tool im making one thanks again.
In the 50s in high school we made our own tools like you did then in the 80s I got put in the machine shop at Farmall tractor works I don't know that any one made tools any more with all the inverts available, I did see long chips that would cut you bad, keep up the good work
+David Dooley Hell, I'm in a high school machine shop class now, we still make our own tools. Most students do a bad job, but some are alright.
That huge chip was scary man! My uncle had a long chip like that wrap around his arm and cut it to the bone.
Love the chip control series - I have got a round bed lathe from the early 1940s (approx. 20" between centers), and there's no day that I don't try to optimize the depth of roughing cuts I can take with the machine still being able to cope with it (no nasty vibrations a.s.o) - I've been getting around 4mm depth of cut recently, and I am really proud of that LOL
Maybe I can experiment with the tool geometry a bit to knock even more out :D
Cheers
Adrian
Hey Adam I use to use that same cool mist system in the tool room and the oil we use was the one you mix with water and turns a whitish color. Nice video Adam I wish I was back in the tool room man.
I used to use the soluble oil in my old mister years ago, but i noticed it tends to fog the shop worse. This blue stuff from Kool Mist is supposed to cut down on the fogging and be more safe. it does what I need it for those, mostly cooling for the milling machine.
Thanks Ruben.
Damn that's the biggest bench grinder I've ever seen man!!!
12" Queen City 👍
TWLML420 ;
I've been looking forward to this installment and as always I learn something new. Funny how things stick with you though, I could not help but think of the chip control videos yesterday while hogging down a big chunk of Al for some bushings. I ended up fooling around with my feed a bit looking for a better chip.
One thing I use on chips that can't be controlled is rapidly disengaging the feed to break the chip. Good for roughing cuts. Finish cut is a different beast.
great video very interesting
That chip breaker tool works Great ..Seeing all those chips made me hungry for some Onion Chips and Curly Fries !!! This will be a Great video to Refer back to
That big glob of chips from your 5/8" cut is bigger than many of our finished products! I'm looking forward to the video about making a nice finish. I just finished up making a taper attachment for my Clausing 5914 and a smooth finish will be important for me. On my first test with the taper jig, I produced about 50' of wire, instead of chips. (check my last video) First run on my home-built lathe taper attachment
Dude when you grabbed the camera mid cut at 31:26 , it scared the crap out of me lol! Thought it crashed when it jumped lol
Very entertaining and educating at the same time, thank you again for making such great videos. I watch allot of them since I prefer TH-cam to TV, and you make a great show...If only I were a network executive, I would have a show with all of you guys making cool stuff...
Nah, you have a very good life though, don't let me ruin that by letting the Hollweird people find you and turn your artform into a gameshow. You have already got this show checking all of the boxes when it comes to how I like to spend any time that I'm either hiding from the sun, resting my bad back, or just to fill those weeknights at home.
All of you guys that have worked together to "chip" away at my ignorance and "control" my desire to work a lathe while I have to just dream about it for now, LOL! At least with all of this information on the web, I will learn a few tricks before that dream becomes a reality.
Well, hopefully I will get lucky one day and find an old sweet widow with a pristine Monarch or Brideport under a blanket in the garage she'll give me for cleaning her rain gutters and clipping her lawn, he he! Until then I'll still be watching the Mad Machinist's Club here on TH-cam...Aloha until next time, Chuckie
PS I think I fixed my settings Tom, so hopefully I can "Hear" you...so to speak. I'm still pretty new to communicating and watching videos of real value online, so I appreciate the heads up, Thank you.
It is contagious... I've been wanting a white board too. :)
Hi Adam,
So far with the new lathe I've only tried carbide inserts, like 1300 RPM on a 2 inches CR stock, .007 per revolution feed and .500 radius deep, geezzzz the chips were flying like a hail storm... Good thing, the bigger chips where breaking about only 3/8" long.
I will get into high speed a little later, if I start that now, the reorganization marathon will never end. It will be like your shop a "Never Ending Story".
Cheers,
Pierre
16:25 Congratulations you make a steel rose!
Is this where razor ribbon is born?
I know this is an old video but I just got to watching it. I'll give the chip breaker a try on my lathe. I use 1/4 HSS on it, but I've had trouble getting it to cut clean at times, it makes strings on most steel. I've been using the old textbook grinds like your first tool was.
Like you I've never found a "traditional" ground tool to be good with chip control. You have to incorporate a chipbreaker in there for heavier cuts or the stringy chip is gonna happen.
I generally use a rotary type tool like a die grinder or dremel as I find it hard to see what I'm doing on the bench grinder.
Colin
The chip breakers have always worked best for me. I use side rake and back rake grinds once in a while for cutting bronze, plastics, or grooves.
That big grinder helps when grinding those grooves though.
Hey Adam,
That Monarch is one bad ass lathe! I think you should take those stringy chips, spray them with some kind of plastic coating so they don't rust. Cut then into about 3" lengths and make some ear rings for Elana. :-) You could go into the jewelery business and make some $$$ on the side! Thanks for all your work and for the explanations. BTW, I love the white board!
Regards,
Dave
Can't say jewelry is my thing, but they might make great Christmas tree ornaments!
Thanks Dave!
Abom79
That's a great idea Adam! Save all your stringy chips, paint them different colors and sell them at the flea market. The "artsy types" will go nuts over them and pay you a ton of $$$! A new business has evolved: Booth Ornaments. The chips might make great wind chimes also!
Dave
Can you imagine a dumpster filled with those giant curly razor springs just opening up and dumping a 500 pound wad of them on the freeway?!? LOL, what a crazy mess that would be! Oh man...even worse, have that same ball rolling through the middle of town in a tornado, that would be about the worst thing you could find flying through a storm...creepy.
Awesome! Been having trouble with birds when cutting cold rolled these days lol. I'm gonna have to try that chip breaker magic you got going on there.
Although, your idea of a small chip is a little different than mine 😂.
Thanks again for the tips, Adam!
👍🙂👍
Nice video Adam
Some good camera angles
That chip breaker makes a massive difference I hate "stringy chips"
Amazing the way you made the metal "vanish"
Regards
John
Thanks John! Big ole cuts like that will make your stock disappear in a hurry!
nice work !!!
Thats so scary!! Amazing power
Awesome and informative Abomb- great vid. Will have to invite ya over to see what we can do on the 10EE.
Gill
Looking forward to that Gill! Lets see the little brother make some big chips!
Hey Adam, I think if you work a little back rake into that chip breaker you will be pleased. I find that helps keep the chip moving away from the work, rather than curling up around the front of the tool holder. Hmmmm, maybe its time to do some more videos.
Yes the back rake works good too, and I've seen in it action by my own doing. I like trying to keep my cutting edge straight and a neutral rake so that I don't have to adjust the tool height each time I touch it up. Just my preference.
yes Mr. Kilroy it is time for more videos lol i look every day but nope no new ones i have no cable you guys are my tv (tv is joke anymore and the news just lies and the weather is never right) so y pay for junk when i watch youtube for free so lets go get your butt in gear and make some hehe all jokeing aside thanks for your hard wok the gos in to making the video
good stuff
something I think to try is add a "side wall" bent piece of sheet metal under the tool to stop the chip from wrapping around the tool and send it to the chip pan. I'm thinking this may cause the string chip to break or at least stop the wrap up on the tool
anyway you and the gang are doing your part to teach use the finer points on machine work and I thank you for that
Good info thanks for posting.
Ditto the nice work Adam. Video comment: At 31:26 you remove the camera for a hand held view and the machines saddle noise goes away. As a thought, you might experiment with various rubber or foam isolating mounts to try to eliminate noise from transferring into the camera.
I went back to listen to it at 10:00, before you switched to the protective case. It seems it is the case that is amplifying the noise, like using a stethoscope.
That takes a solid powerful lathe to do that.🙂 I know I'm 9 years late but a similar test on something like a 10" southbend or Logan would be interesting.
Great video - I am not a professional like you but here is an observation (please don't laugh! :) It appears the chip breaker may work better if two parts of it were modified: The chip length before breakup should be proportional to the distance from the cutting edge to the "back" of the gouge - where it turns up - that is the larger the distance to the upturn in the chip breaker gouge the longer the chip length. If there were no chip breaker the length would be very long. Second, the sharpness of the end of the chip breaker gouge opposite the cutting edge should assist the break off of the cut ribbon. The gouge turn upward angle sharpness makes the chip make a sharp turn upward at this rear edge and the sharper the turn the more chance of breaking the work hardened chip into pieces. Thanks for the well made videos!
I think you were steering those big chips to turn to the outside of the steel shaft and then were able to come around and roll up around the cutting tool, I think that if you kept the tool flat flush against the face of the chuck the steel would curl up and hit the steel shaft and make a big curl and snap off, or even turn a little more so it cuts on the outside edge first then the tool tip cuts last forcing the chip into the center of the steel shaft and snapping off. I hope this makes sense! Brad Fisher
Wow, I've never seen that big a cut come off before. That Monarch is one strong lathe. I noticed that it didn't take you long to handle that hot chip. LOL
See ya
Mark
I didn't think they were going to be that hot, but looks can be deceiving. The Monarch is a strong smooth running machine, and I enjoy having it.
Thanks Mark.
your video's are very informative thank you
Thanks for the great video, I did notice you liked to touch the cutting tools up with a hone stone, in your opinion will this improve the performance of the final edge on the cutting tool, I am sure it will improve the edge and give it more durability, I look forward to seeing more of your video's
Im a non machinist ( woodturner) other than not wanting a six foot razor sharp chip flyin around, what is the importance of a small chip? Excellent videos. Im learning quite a bit.
Really interesting. My impression is it's the way they make blades for razors? Long straight chips? Anyway, when those big chips start whipping around, they stop looking like soft and friendly curly cues for a kid's Easter basket, and start looking like really hot blades for really big razors....
Thanks.
3/4" at 12 thou per rev sounds better than 1.5" with 5 thou. Chip breaker works nice, I'm going to have to try one.
15:30 That's not a chip. That's a god damned Christmas tree ornament!
"If you dare turn your back on the machine, you're simply not running it hard enough....."
Sometimes you need to take the slop out of the bearings
Jayzez - imagine the mess those stringy chips would make in a roller box tool !
I just watched both of these videos! Awesome!! I have a small lathe but this still relates to me because I am seeing how speeds and feeds along with tool geometry can increase efficiency and quality of the product. Without going through some videos to see where you mention it, can you tell me what kind of lathe this is that you are using in these 2 videos?
Well, it's out to the shop to grind some chip breakers. I have to make a few parts out of 17-4 stainless and without a chip breaker it almost cut me to ribbons!
I know this is a year old but just wanted to point out that if you angle your chip breaker groove away from the cutting edge a bit more it should cause the chip to curl around and hit the tool face again and so cause it to break and give you that perfect chip more often than not, feed speed permitting.
Hey Adam, great video. If I would try to take that much off using my grizzly something would break and I 'd be running out of the shop. What kind of cutting oil do you use, and if you get a chance can you go over the cool mist system? Thanks for taking time to share your shop with us.
Buddy
Buddy, not all lathes are created equal, so be careful on the little Grizzly. Hell I'm not ever sure Monarch had those kinds of cuts in mind for my size lathe, it but it handled them well. The cutting oil is just dark cutting oil, the old school sulphur based stuff. You can find it most anywhere, even in hardware stores listed as thread cutting oil. Its good for many machining ops.
Thanks Buddy!
Abom79 Thanks, I have been using Drill & tap cutting oil in a spray can, it seems to work ok but it can be messy.
Buddy
nice video
Jeeeez, can't imagine the tonnage of pressure on that tool post and cutting tool. That lathe is a beast!
What kind of HP and amperage does that lathe have?
Learning a lot, great info Adam.
The motor is a 5 HP GE. Don't recall what the amperage is on the motor though, it's running on a 40 amp breaker.
That type of heavy cutting does create a lot of force on the machine, and you can feel it when you release the feed. I could tell the chip breaker tool has less pressure than the side rake tool though.
I feel like I have to say Thank you for the videos that you put out, either for our entertainment and/or education. I cringe to think about how much that stock is costing you to just turn into chips for our viewing pleasure. I've never done any metal work and I've been watching your videos for a while now because I'm wanting to build a small cnc router and/or mill in my small shop. I do have a question about all those chips... What do you do with them? Do you have them recycled into more stock or just trash them? I know it isn't cheap for those large pieces of stock, so you must accumulate several pounds of chips after just a couple jobs. let me know what you do with those chips if you would, and again, Thank you for putting your time, your money and your expertise on display for our viewing. I for one truly appreciate it
Thanks Jeffry. We always sold our scrap metal to the local scrap yard. We used to go a few times a year, or when I filled up all the barrels. In my new shop I dont make that much waste, so it usually goes in the trash can. It's really not enough to worry about, and I dont have much time to take a couple cans to the scrap yard for just a few bucks worth of chips.
Thank you for the nice comments on the videos.
Chips can be broke with more feed and less rpm. Just have to tweet it in. For a large depth of cut I would recommend a lower rpm and increase feed. I've taken .5 dia cuts with a half in tool bit and nothing bad happened. Be more aggressive and I think you will find better results with chip breaking.
Hey Adam, great video! Thanks. For those of us who have little experience with these chip-breaker tools: how do you re-sharpen them when they get dull? Do you grind the end back towards you and re-cut the groove?
Another great video! Is that the Steve Krar book?
Thanks for the info, What is your oil of choice?
Adam, that is one huge set of chips! Are you trying to make a grain augur or something? I was starting to think you weren't going to be satisfied until you got a "CLANG!!" when the chip hit the tray!
Thanks for the lesson in tool grinding. I think I'm understanding the chip breaker idea now. If I am, I'm guessing that for those really big chips you almost need a wider groove that gets deeper as it moves back from the tip, so the chip will be bigger in diameter and spiral away from the cutting area, rather than looping back into it. Right?
-- Mike
I was just trying to see what the old machine could handle.
The chip breaker needs to be wider for those heavier cuts to allow the chip room to curl around. If you have a small groove for such a heavy cut it seems to just run over the groove and off the side like a side rake grind.
I think that if you would have changed your lead angle again and rotated your tool holder to present your tool where it hits on the O.D. of the part first and at the corner of the tool last with the heavy feed rate and 1" cut you would have directed the chip into the work face instead of curling out away from the work. I believe that when the chip hits the work face is when it would break. Just my observation.
Hi,
I really like your videos and i've been watching them for some time now. I like how you get your speech in the video, but i don't like how machining noise comes in the video thru machine frame to gopro/camera frame and in to the microphone. I think some rubber or foam underneath the tripod mount or something would do the trick!
Keep it going! Greetings from Finland!
Hey abam thank ..for this video ... when you cutter the work the feed is low
calısmalarınızı takıp edıyorum gayet basarıluı ve egıtıcı thanks
I know this is an old post adam Wanted to ask Adam what's the name of the cutting oil Can your using in this video. Would sure love to get one. If I see any on eBay.
Much nicer than the plastic bottle they sell now'er days but saying that Adam it would be a dream for me to have all that lovely machinery you have in your shop.
Kool cummins on up, gotta 'whie board '