Currently working on my new game for mobile. It's literally just a red button on screen, and when you press it, it deducts $1 from your bank account and shows a line of golden text: "You Win!!". You have the freedom of choice of being able to press the button as many times as you want. I'm already designing a leaderboard to show the names of the people who've pressed the button the most. It's your job to beat their numbers.
This guy started a Kickstarter >collected 8mil >made the game > played by himself only > shut down the game. This guy is not a scammer, This guy is what every scammer dreams to become
Red flag, sure. Doesn’t mean it can’t be done. If you like scifi (I know, completely different type of game) look into Dual Universe. Currently in Alpha 2 stage I believe (haven’t jumped on in a bit because...life) but it I can personally tell you it is already impressive!
@@accunutoutdoors2717 it also means "make your own fun" that kind of unfocused direction is stupid and devs have no creative plan. Do everything lol the amount of programming to facilitate all that might as well just simulate real life and let people do degenerate things.
For anyone looking for an update: The lawsuit was just dismissed in court and will not be proceeding. There may be an attempt of an appeal, but for now it's unknown. Caspian called it a victory and another "phase of the heros journey" The lawsuit against xsolla will be going to court. The lack of information and transparency is what gets me. Backers kept in the dark while nothing gets done. I feel terrible for them.
It won’t do jack mate the US legal system is broke and if you look at fines the government makes companies pay it pails in comparison to how much they maid in the scam of sorts. To be more clear said company makes 25billon off corruption and the fine is only 75millon that’s less than .5% of profit.
I only give up my money when the game is out to be seen, and there are reviews of what people found. I can tolerate an early access if it is below 20 dollars.
@@Doriannae A lot of people shit on that game though, mainly because people aren't interested in slow progression or immersion anymore. It has to be flashy, fast and pay them chemically immediately. I do think Kingdom Come was amazing though, so many unique moments and the world really drew me in... Talking from a pretty well seasoned gamers perspective too, but it doesn't make the cut for most. :)
Look up Ashes of Creation. Thats how you do a kickstarter right. Im a 250$ backer rn. Seriously they are such a good company and the ceo is a millionaire before he started making the game. So he doesnt make shit mistakes like these idiots.
this is so true and so depressing. People rally so much for so many pretty unimportant things but when it comes to truely meaningfull stuff, people just wave it away
@st54nanolea68 ppl were excited asf for the game and likely wanted to have as big of an advantage as possible. Also, since its an mmo, it would give them a lot of control over the in-game economy
A 16 people studio developing a AAA MMO that promises to be groundbreaking and that in 2 years, is so incredibely unrealistic that I am surprised so many people bought into it.
If I ever end up Kickstarting a game, I'm going to make a $10k tier that gives people a copy of the game with a completed save file. You don't even have to play the game. You already won. Congrats.
sad thing about this, it will actually work, because 99% of players nowdays RUSH RUSH RUSH and they're not even interested in playing, they only want to see the end credits run. So make a 10k tier and give them end-credits where your character sails off into the sunset with credits running "thank you so much for playing, you have completed the awesome game that will take over 10 years for normal players to complete"
I've had 5 diff kickstarters and of those all 5 were either broken, garbage or didn't work as advertised then the maker like the product was gone. Never use kickstarter.
While you all condemn and criticize this man, Ubisoft, EA, and Activision praises him highly! 8 million USD raised with no game!? That's like the holy grail for those companies, lol
For a lot less money, one could buy an awesome knight cosplay costume, move to Elyria, Ohio and walk around the shit city dressed as a knight fighting off muggers, robbers, rapists, rabbid dogs and the occasional coyote while at the same time livestreaming the whole ordeal creating your own chronicle.
The original videos were probably captured using Frame rate independent macros inside the game engine. Unity has a bunch of them and no matter how bad your games frame-rate is, you are able to make videos as if it was being played at 60fps. That is why it was mostly just fly-threws and not real gameplay. Then when the fake developers tried to play the game, they didn't know how to optimize enough to make it playable, so they had to dump all the graphics. Real developers kinda do it to cheat because optimization is usually late in the process, so you use the capture macros for your marketing, knowing you will most likely be able to optimize a good bit in the future, so your gameplay FPS will be similar to what you showed in those early videos.
Hail, and well met Elyrians! Your generous donation of $1,750 will secure you a Demon Soul and a Saddled Great Beast (both theoretical ideas not yet worked on) . Ride around (possibly) with Honor , with Respect , and defeat your enemies (we're working on creating). With one more small donation of $3,500 you will (maybe) secure your stronghold for your Guild (if anybody plays) and your place in Elyrian history (once we render a world) will be solidified. In just 6 more months (maybe years) you will set forth on your epic journey and explore our possible ideas in an exhilarating text-based format complete with 800×600 images of your purchases!
For real, like you can see from the stutter in the early videos that the game could never handle the initial graphics they were promising. Buy the second version isn't like one or two steps down graphically, it's a whole fucking staircase
@@abbcc5996 But a fully destructible environment in an MMO? How exactly does that work? Do players always have to download entire chunks of maps every time they travel? And the assets are not just simple blocks like in Minecraft.
The site doesn't really care if it's a scam. They get paid no matter what. That should be a really big red alarm. When you read the rules it should give you even more alarms. Kickstarter doesn't hold any responsibility and suing the site will not help. Check the agreement you agreed to when creating an account. It's a very american agreement. Unfortunately for the site other countries like in EU renders much of the agreement null and void. You can't sign away certain rights in civilized countries and since they do accept payments from EU citizens which means the site must adhere to certain EU laws, the site can be in deep trouble if someone gets pissed enough which will force the site to block EU citizens in the end. The site can be fined a lot of money. (America have long way to go before it can be called civilized. For one they still don't use the metric system. For another Americans laws put companies as first citizen and protect companies more than the individual rights of people).
@@JesusCheeseburger I wish I had low enough standards to steal people's money like this. Man, people will spend their money on fucking anything, it's all right there for the taking.
@@rowenkylee5627 All of this except the metric system part. Technically, we do use the metric system. All US units are defined by their metric counterparts now. Most companies and most of the government use metric directly. It's just kept the same because it would cost billions to suddenly shift all public-facing units to metric and would cause widespread chaos by having people who have spent decades using imperial switch to some completely unknown (to them) system. We've started teaching metric in schools. We're phasing in metric everywhere, changing things over time. I'm sorry we don't want to cause the complete collapse of our country over base 10 vs base 12 measurements. Fuck right off with that one. Everything you said else is correct, we're a third world country that went to a Halloween party as a first world country but never took the costume off. We're uncivilized af. And I hate it here. But not using the metric system has fuck all to do with any of that.
This dude literally LARPed as a game studio for six years, writing production logs like he was Peter Jackson posting updates about the Hobbit, whilst in reality, he had a handful of rookie programmers in a room somewhere trying to figure out how to texture a model without it looking like it was made in 2002.
Bro WHAT?! I've never heard of this game and seeing how they casually tried to play off decently nice graphics and world to going to 2006 Runescape is absolutely mind-blowing. What a time to be alive
Everyone who loves runescape like never heard of ultima online which came out pre 2000 and had everything and more of Runescape Better graphics lol and well I guess not so many Quests but that is actually a good thing.
@@jootpepet I kinda get ya, but Honestly When was the last time Pretty Graphics kept you in a game? FOR ME, NEVER...Black Desert...even....nope...and I played at launch...ID still play Ultima online today...But I was Always Gameplay OVER graphics. Most MMOS today are SOO SAMEY...ALIKE that they all FEEL the same and is why So many exist and So many Fail.
@@avavavaa After adamantly saying that Kingdoms of Elyria will release by the end of 2023, the September 2023 blog post, he said he would be pushing back the release date (what a surprise). There haven't been any new blog posts since then.
12:45 They really claimed that their developers, who were JUST laid off, would be "willing" to do the same job they used to get _paid_ for in their *"spare time?!"* 🤣🤣🤣
Companies (especially scummy ones) often try to delay any negative consequences, and to slowly tire angry people out by leading them on. That way they create the illusion that this isn't completely over yet, and the momentum of the mob is being diffused more and more, until one day they just ghost everyone and go into hiding. Or so they hope.
For what it’s worth this has happened before. Especially in the film industry. Sadly I cannot name any as my memory does not serve me the best but I know I have heard of this occurring multiple times People just doing it for the fact that it was their baby and they wanted to see it done. It’s about the art. Not the money. So this claim isn’t outlandish. Heck look at TH-camrs. They do this all the time. This very video could very well be this example. Doing it for the sake of doing it with no assured cash flow. Because they want to
I think most crowdfunding is a scam, but in defense of game developers. You'd be surprised just how hard it is to make a game. Most indie games fail due to overly ambition game devs not having the technical ability to finish their project. I would argue a successful indie game is an exception, not the norm.
Actually I did some analytical work and most of it is just unfamiliarity and inexperience with crowdfunding (plus minus some people catching greed after seeing this kind of money for the first time in their lives). Some dev teams try to shortsell themselves only to find them running out of their kickstarter budget. Others aren’t versed in or/ms enough to pinpoint how much segments of development costs what. If you made it through and developed well, you get games like Skull Girls. If you don’t, then there’s a slew of games that have had hype but no release.
When they said they were having trouble finding the proper engineers for their idea, it should have been a massive red flag, tbh. It's literally them saying "So, we can't actually make the game we promised you unless we hire someone to do it for us"
Yea getting core engineers for your MMO is basically the hardest thing, because network engineers and core engineers that can actually deliver at that level command huge salaries (especially ones with the experience required to avoid creating something that blows the game up in alpha/beta) and are usually working at the big studios. So, you would in most cases need to attempt to get them to a) quit their well-paying job with a high-quality studio b) move across the country (in many cases) c) accept a much smaller salary for years on end d) convince them why your idea is so uber awesome and great, and so much better than their current project at AAA studio x -- and finally, many of these engineers sign contracts that lock them in for x years on a project, so there's that too. So yea... tiny startup studio with barely any capital wants to build "next gen" MMO game that no-one has attempted before because "everyone else is stupid and i'm the only one who actually wants to build an amazing game like this" *rolls eyes*
@@samjones3044 Yep + the actual scarcity of engineers like that. Need some artwork or whatever done? You can outsource that to India... not so with the guys putting together your core networking code, lol.
Imo, if the person starting the project isn't the person to do the hard things, like the game engine, server structure etc. then you can't trust anything they promise in terms of cost, delivery time or even if it's at all possible. Anyone promising a game should be able to code the hard stuff themselves. Hire in the artists, but don't count on being able to get the engineers to do what you want to do. It's a typical manager disease to think that you can just hire in the tech people.
I had a mate who worked as a project lead on Skyrim. He pissed himself laughing when he heard that people were funding this game. Knowing what Skyrim cost he says that the promises made for Elyria are literally impossible to meet based on the money raised unless it were made with 2D sprites and such.
I think folks had good intentions of having some die hard programmers work with freedom and get paid as they went along.I also worked on a a game years ago and sadly with the way these work is you need several high paying jobs for all sorts of people like artists--programmers--editors--even voice acting. Also once the game had problems with programming issues--there was probably not enough money to get top notch programmers to clean it up and they proabably overworked a few die hard ones for close to nothing that just patched it up here and there.curt schilling even went broke trying to fund games. You also need engineers if this game was going to be online or on other platforms like xbox.It would have almost been better to get millions upfront--spend a 100k to see if it is feasible and if not return the money--but it is impossible to try and string a major game together and to have money come in increments--cause that is how folks will work--in incrments and a game this massive has to be worked on constantly.
@@khronin I have never worked in game development before so I'll have to take your word for what you think would have been a good idea on a way to realise the game. From an outsider's perspective, based on what my friend said about Skyrim and it's huge budget, and the fact that I closely followed the mess that surrounded Kingdoms of Amaleur (loved the game at the time personally, shame to think that the original Devs might not see anything from the re-release) and the massive budget that game had, Chronicles of Elyria never seemed realistic to me, exciting certainly. It seemed like a budget at least in line with Skyrim would have been necessary to meet all the promises the Devs made. Mind if I ask what game you worked on? I assume you no longer work in the industry? If not, is there a reason?
That's why I always get annoyed when Kickstarter funding is used for large projects like this. The arcade game used in the video is the perfect example of what a Kickstarter video game project should be: an independent developer (or a small, close group of people) earning enough funds to get paid to work on a smaller project they are willing to devote their own time to. Start-ups looking to compete against established companies by using Kickstarter as a replacement for traditional funding is such a red flag. Those companies cannot pay for their staff or resources with only a few million dollars while they make a project that could take years.
@@RariettyC One thing folks do not consider is much of the game is spent fixing bugs. On a game I worked on as a tester--there was a secret door in the game that was glitched--it took a team of people a week to just fix that one bug--that bug probably cost 10s of thousands to fix and there were others--especially if the game is online. I never even buy any new xbox one games--i wait 6 months to maybe over a year so the game is patched several times and works good.here is an example--i just started playing fallout 76--which is what 2 years old--and have experienced several glitches--killed a ghoul and its gun was floating in the air--also I opened a door and it glitched and had me blocked in the space between it and the wall and I had to relog.
I was gonna say, didn't Skyrim cost like in the area of 80-100 million dollars to make? How the hell did they plan on doing this with only 900k in the beginning lol.
(30 years have passed) -Finally get your copy of The Chronicles of Elyria. -Game Boots Up. -Hear horse carriage though a black screen. -"At last! The game we've all been waiting for!" -Your main character wakes up in a back of a horse carriage. -The NPC next to you notices "Hey, You're Finally Awake." -SKYRIM -"Gosh damn it Todd Howard! You clever bastard! You got us to buy Skyrim for 8 Million Dollars!" THE END
What do we learn from this? *As Game devs:* - DON'T try to be a revolutionizer immediately - If something doesn't exist yet, maybe it's because even big studios with all the money and recourses in the world couldn't figure it out. Not because they didn't want to, but because it's not doable, so far - If you're unknown, start with a simple game, that's cheap, but also easy to produce, that is fun to play though. And once you made it, aim for ever growing projects afterwards. Or to say it in gaming terms: Don't try to beat the final boss, before you even played the tutorial level for the first time. *As donaters:* - Don't stop using your brain, when you donate money - If an unknown developer offers something "too good to be true", it usually isn't true - Don't spend more money than you can afford to throw in the trash, in case the game won't deliver
I’d moreso recommend developer to developer not to take on big projects if you just don’t feel like it when everything relies on you I’m unknown and make ‘large scale’ projects though they’re mostly train simulators so 60+% of the time you spend is moddelling the scenery I don’t and won’t ever ask for money, simply because I’m doing it for my own enjoyment and escape from reality But as i said, if you’re a sole developer, don’t ‘outdo your best’ otherwise you’ll likely burn yourself out and the game will take forever
give this man a studio on EA so he has a team, hell hes perfect, with a team thats capable he can actually release a couple of flops so he can get paid and not have a class action law suit
The worst part is that... there could be a legit amazing team of developers who will never get funding because of the tainted history of crowd funding :(
@@sauceru99 yeah, an amazing team of developers would at the least be very much capable of actually presenting something worth funding. Larian did a wonderful job with Divinity 2 Original Sin, which was crowd funded.
@@wtfimcrying then that point should have been where they realize they can't actually produce it. If you can't even get an approximate working on a smaller state the. You shouldn't be making that game
@@Kronos_LordofTitans im not saying that they couldnt produce a demo. im just saying the demo format doesnt fit games like these. you wouldnt be able to encapsulate the game at all in a demo.
As an indie dev working on a game project myself for 3 years, this is just insane. How can you build small bad amateurish looking scenes with marketplace (mostly free) assets on a free game engine (I guess it's Unity), record some videos and raise 8 million for this? There's so many TH-cam videos of 3D environments made by non professionals in UE4, CryEngine or Unity that looks wayyyyy more serious than this crap. Who will believe in other projects after this?
'Who will believe in other projects after this?' That's the real tragedy. Stuff like this really hurts the prospects of crowdfunding legitimate games by honest studios. It also hurts the whole Early Access concept. A lot of cool game projects and ideas will never get the funding or support they need because of a-holes like them. On the other hand, perhaps that's a blessing in disguise? Early Access is a cool concept, but it seems destined to fail due to lots of bad actors and how gullible people are.
@@XpaceTrue i think they're honest as any indie game studio out there that dream release their awesome game...they just don't get the bigger picture and how vast the game they promise to deliver, the ceo must be one of the "i dream xyz game" guy without ever lay hands on making MMO game before..and plus the illusion of easy game engine sowed by entity such as unity and unreal..
Because beimg an indie dev is not the same as being a mmorpg. Im sorry but you are the reason why many indie devs are trying so hard to develop (and scam people) creating mmorpgs thinking its just another genre of videogames
you know whats sad is that you know you could take like a fraction of that $ and make a nice functioning game yourself, but nope lets just put all that $ down the shitter or wherever it went.
See this is why I keep my projects inside of development communities. Because every time I feel I'm close to finishing something I realize I need to go 5 steps back to make 6 steps forward. Doing Solo Game Dev is even harder. I am at a point with my current project that I am very nearly at the 1/6th mark of the game and even then I wouldn't start posting about it much less asking for support while developing it. Maybe when I get 2/3rd done where all that's left is some cleaning up before Alpha then sure. If I knew I could hit alpha in like 5 months then yeah. But that means I have a functioning game already.
I remember when this came across Kickstarter. I read the goals and the supposed release dates and went, "Nope, that's never happening." Seems I chose wisely.
I heard about that too and had the same reaction. I've only recently dipped my toes in backing a game on kickstarter (Eiyuden Chronicles) and even then I only pledged what I was okay with being out - less then $100.
@@ratboi535 Most people today were not born when Fable was released and Sean Murray's No man Sky is more relevant or CDPR smokescreen of 8 years lying by making demo on a game who did not exist and was only in development for 2 years.
@@robertagren9360 no man sky lies were kinda possible to achieve I guess they were even able to do so with the recent comeback while most peter molyneux lies ,not just about fable, were completely mad bonker and impossible to achieve just like this game the video is based on
@@gregorygannon4072 They could afford it especially as the 10k was just the package, and not all the extras that they bought over the years. One of the 'kings' bought spent over 50k to include a second 10k package.
Did they really expect us not to notice that the swordfighting "gameplay" is just the sword fight between Inigo and Westley in The Princess Bride? 9:15
We once dreamt about making our own game, but after doing some maths and realising the amount of money it would cost us we instead decided to create a series of short stories that we publish on the web for people to read for free.
lol, i think he's referring to the game in the video xD like how most of the things the backers actually got are blog posts instead of playing the game (or i could be wrong)
Producing a modern MMO, especially one like this, could never be done for $9M. We're in the age of $100M+ games when it comes to games with scope like this. $9M is barely enough to employ a small team of game developers for a year at this point.
If Im allowed to guess I think they were hoping to make enough of a game to gain additional funding from a publisher or investor into the project. A bit like star citizen, it's also a scam but I believe team was simply delusional and actually believed they could deliver on their promise. Just like star citizen.
@@Zluken well considering ammounts of money Star Citizen devs have raised to date it would be truly challenging task to actually NOT deliver the game. I mean Mr. Roberts should be really talented guy to mess this up with SUCH amounts of resources available. Even if we assume it was a scam project at first. Cant wait to see how it all ends up :)
@@yungzynofficial2055 I agree with you generally but MMORPG's are in a different class. The amount of server backend code you need to write for that is not something modern game engines will provide you with. Not to mention how challenging it is to make it secure.
@@yungzynofficial2055 We are in the age of indie games. And many of them are 2D. Which are incredible. It's stunning what 1 or a few people can make now days. There are soo many indie games I adore. But we are not in the age of a couple people making an entire MMORPG with revolutionary features for under $10M. To create something like this requires $50 to $100M+. It requires massive teams of people from every arena of not only game design and development, but a wide array of IT infrastructure teams. That's not even mentioning advertising cost or the huge expense of hosting and maintaining servers.
I'm not big into mmorpgs so I didn't know the details of the situation but definitely heard the name thrown around over the years as almost a campfire horror story. Thanks for the comprehensive look, you did a great job
This was a scam, and the backers were victims. But, I mean, how can you be naive enough to see a tiny team claiming that they can make an entire MMORPG with revolutionary features and no experience for well under $10M and decide it's smart to put money into it?? It couldn't have been more obvious it was a fraud than if the game was called "Chronicles of the Scam: Take Your Money and Run".
I must admit to finding pleasure in learning of a good scam, jolly well executed, by simply telling people you can magically deliver the thing they all want. Even when it's been done to me. And sometimes I think, "Oh, goodness, it would be so damned easy to start a cult. If I could just be bothered writing a story."
Easy enough, pretty much no one playing videos games actually understand the time and effort that goes into making a video game, let alone an MMO. Like, the people claiming they could make the parkour simulator in hours is a testament to this. So, it's an easy scam.
Interesting to compare this car crash to 'The Long Dark'. A tiny company (Hinterland), using seed funding and kickstarter, made a basic game in 2012 which people loved, and then regularly added more content since. 5.5 million copies now sold, 91% positive reviews on Steam. The lesson must surely be; start small and with limited ambition, and build up slowly.
The Long Dark is my favorite game of all time, have been following the game since 2013 and have seen the game grow up into the wonderful world it has created.
I was just going to say if a team offers you the idea of a game that a AAA studio can't even make with their billions in the bank then you are not going to get better for less from a studio that has never made a game before. However If you offer a humble beginning with reasonable promises that are doable and they get to that target, produce a game people enjoy and have money left over, then they decide they are going to use that money to add stuff and could make it even better with more donations then sure go for it. But i never can understand people giving money to people who promise things that are just too good to true. There is a reason it is too good to be true and that is because it can't be done and therefor will never come to fruition. I hope the people in this case get some of their money back if not all.
I literary choked with my coffee when I saw the early gorgeous footage of the game and then the alpha version which looked like something from the 80's.
Gorgeous?! It still looked absolutely terrible if you looked closely. It already looked dated, check how the buildings were placed. Its just a texture block
Has anyone noticed that one of the game play videos is a recreation of a scene from "The Princess Bride." It even includes the flip off the high beam. “Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die”
The plan was that the characters death would have an impact on your next character. If you Level up your characters strength and he dies, then the "next generation" would gain a certain strength boost. Same goes for stuff like smiting etc. At least that's what they promised back then
I backed this on Kickstarter way back in 2016. I am still getting emails from Soulbound Studios about the progress of the game (last email arrived a couple of days ago). What I hate is the constant cash grab posts about buying unique items in the game, instead of just focusing on getting out a playable alpha. Truthfully, I think that the developer is just posting out these so-called updates to make it look like the game is still in production. It also keeps the wolves from the door when somebody questions 'where's my money and where's the game.' He can just say it's still being made, despite the fact that we all know its BS!
@@gehinkun I don't know, I've been playing Star Citizen only since last October, and every patch just since then has been full of interesting new mechanics, bug fixes, optimizations, new flight ready space ships/ground vehicles, missions, critical and truly innovative backend tech. I haven't stopped having fun every time I play, even while certainly dealing with bugs periodically. There's a very steep overall learning curve already, so I'm actually glad to have a chance to get a handle on basics while waiting for the next major gameloops to go live. Beyond all that, the game is relentlessly beautiful and obviously crafted with great artistic vision and skill. Seriously, since October I've taken something like 5000 screenshots...
@@gehinkun just to be clear, I played Elite Dangerous for a few years before getting SC. SC scratches literally every itch ED left me with. It's almost uncanny. It comes down to immersion, everything is hands on and seemless. The ships themselves are incredibly well realized, you become attached to your ships. They FEEL like real places, they have quirks, secrets, personality. There's 1000% less meaningless grind, and every profession is interesting, and unique but all help the player progress. Possibly the most underrated feature of SC is just how easy it is to party up with friends, and physically meet up, share missions and rewards, transfer in game cash, fly together as a unit, man each other's turrets (the multicrew gameplay is heavily pushed, and for logical reasons). The combat is incredibly varied, offering seemless experiences from on foot FPS tactical, in space EVA FPS, ship vs ship, which range from light fighters all the way to massive capitol ships, and everything in between. There a lawful missions, and illegal missions. Payout and difficulty (as well as varying objectives) increase with reputation gained through completing missions in a tier system, but you aren't forced to do anything. You can always take the lower tiers of missions regardless of how high your reputation is. You can avoid missions entirely and just trade/mine/explore/race with friends.
These kickstarters, especially with MMO genre, shows how little people realize what it requires to create an MMO, the years it'll take, and the money, along with upkeep for it. Sad to see these giant scams going around, but I doubt they're going anywhere
It's a perennial issue with kickstarter that a lot of people putting down money don't really understand the logistics of what they're backing. Like, 8 millions sounds like a lot, but then you have to realize that, once you factor in salaries, renting office space, and software licencses, that's probably baring enough money to fund a sub-ten dev team for one year. You could definitely make a banger game with that . . . But it wouldn't be a full 3D MMO.
@@Bustermachine Depending on your definition of a banger game, you could develop a banger game at home, alone. Hollow Knight is one example, but yeah, a full 3D MMO, not gonna happen.
is it even a scam if youre stupid enough to fall for it? like seriously dude, you wanna triple A legendary game and you think youre gonna get that from a kickstarter? cmon man cmon
I might not know what it takes to make a game but in the last 10-15 year I've been extremely disappointed with the lack of new gameplay mechanics and dynamics. I have a ps5 now but I still feel like I'm playing extra polished ps3 games
I remember this when one of my coworkers prompted me to jump on the train while we can. I thought about it and told him I will wait and buy it for whatever price it may be if they ever deliver. This was some years ago and I actually forgot about it. Thanks to this video I remember this title now and I can´t wait to get to work tomorow and ask him whatever happened to his round about 300$. This is sad to all the backers but at some point I cannot do anything else but gringe....sry and my coworker will feel it too hahahaha
Crowd funding is great for projects that are about halfway finished. Most of these projects are from inexperienced developers who will have a steep learning curve. A developer should spend the first couple of years working on it in their spare time. This is how they will learn. Expecting to learn game development in the first three months of your funded project is unrealistic. The inexperienced always under estimate the learning curve. Star Citizen was developed by an industry legend and it still had growing pains.
Yeah I noticed the setting and background of the fight looked familiar... then I saw the the part with the bar and I was like, oh it is literally just princes bride
"where was the game we were promised and paid for!" That's the magic of this. You actually aren't promised anything. You fund their "attempt" to make a game...whether it happens? That's another story.
That's where KS need to change their approach. There have been quite a few KS scams and people are starting to get wise to them now. KS is a good idea, but it needs to start giving some assurances to backers that they cannot and will not be scammed by unscrupulous developers. This can only be done by KS as it is their product that is being used to scam people.
When you think about it, there's no real surprise that these Indie kickstarters often fail. We often seen Triple A titles struggle to live up to expectations. The baseline is that a lot of videogame companies lack competent project management. This is why we often see poor quality, missed deadlines, etc. Most of these indie developers have no experience in management (let alone project management) let alone business finance and accounting. So it's really no shock that you see so many run over budget, waste money, miss deadlines and ultimately be unable to deliver their products. Most gamers can come up with an amazing concept for a game. It takes not just good programmers, but also great management (technical, project, general and financial) to actually make a project into reality. I'd never invest in one of these unless I could see the education and work experience backgrounds of the team involved.
It's no real surprise that giving unknown people with no track record, on the internet, your money, for unaccountable, opaque, and ambiguous projects fail; and it has almost nothing to do with the troubles of AAA developers. Those that have good intentions are gambling with your money on their ability to figure out what they are doing in the process of spending the money and the rest are con artists.
@@Dadecorban agreed. My point is that if Triple A companies, with the high publicity, resources and experience struggle, then it would take a borderline miracle for an unknown, small team to pull off something even more complex and in-depth.
Exactly, well and , precisely put. It’s ….astonishingly stupid to think that something like this could suceed. All these. Games that are like “we’re gonna have a mmo galaxy to explore in real time” yeah okay bro , can’t even hire more than one fucking engineer for 8 months? And like the video creator said, just calculate salaries and rent in a area where they studio is based, multiply that by number of mos the shitheads have been “raising money” and not doing shit else, except lying to themselves and everyone else, and there you go. You’ve got a actual figure to see , okay, based on this they have…$0 left to work with. And my question then is like what if one of these games did release? How do they know it’s gonna make money even AFTER? If everyone who really wanted to play it has already paid , BEFORE RELEASE!? Then wtf! Doesn’t seem like near ANY of this is a good business model and, I’d advise everyone reading this to basically never invest in a kickstarter or some other shit for a video game , because no matter what hook they have to draw you in, it seems that they can just scam with seeming impunity , like, how The fuck Was the court case dropped. ? I really would appreciate knowing if you can respond back cause I don’t see how this is okay, shit, maybe I’ll try crowdfunding a game, because it seems to be a specific area immune to legal retribution or anything. What’s up with that too?? …the fucck, man… Phew that was a lot. Thanks if you got this far. 🙏
I am a Unity game developer I can confirm that the footages and the videos used by this company as a demo of their game are just demos of assets from the Unity asset store, I counted about 10-20 of them, each one costs about 100$-300$, soo basically all these videos cost less than 5K$
Me too and saw that was sad af they dint even triying is like buy 100$ pencils for a made a painting and only show photos of the pencils for your commissioners
It is impossible for non repeat quest and also character can age and die. It is impossible to create. If they donate to me i would create the best strategy game online never create before. It absolutely king ship and very fun to play. Maybe 3 to 5 years from now i may create it by my own funds. Demo doesn't need 100 to 500$ you can create it at blender and render it for show and it is very easy to create if you have some skill.
There was that one clip (not sure if it's claimed to have been from the "game") that legit just looked like someone tried to make a Princess Bride game.
I've only ever backed one game. And that game was Kingdom Come: Deliverance. I strongly recommend to give that game a play through. The game turned out quite good IMO. Had a rough launch but the developers at Warhorse Studios did their very best to make the game enjoyable and they did an amazing job at that.
Had no idea that was crowd funded. It didn't turn out to be my cup of tea, BUT I can surely appreciate that the game had many, many excellent qualities. I could tell it was a game many folks would adore and sink their teeth into!
Back in 2016 someone showed me this game and told me I should pre-order with them since they had just backed it for like $60 or so. I took a good hard look at the game back then and I had to point out how different the graphics were from one object or video to the next. I told him it looked like a bunch of tech demo's and that I had a feeling maybe the whole thing was a scam. Fast forward 6 years and yeah... I still say the same thing lol Also, an important figure to have in mind when you think you are going to back a new game, original World of Warcraft cost $63,000,000 to develop just the base game. There's no way 900k or even 9m was ever going to be enough to build that kind of game...
I have a feeling they were hoping to just make it to something vaguely publishable and then milk everyone for micro-transactions to buy lands, pets, and probably everything else.
WoW was released in 2004 -- 18 years ago. The number of 3d game engines and platforms is now numerous and has evolved immensely. We have the cloud now. $1m would never be enough, but $10m with a competent leader that understood software development and knew what they were doing easily could have come up with some kind of deliverable. Yes, way too much promised, but they had the money to get there. It came down to failed leadership.
@@keyser456 If the payment of each coder is about 150k a year that 1m is enough only for 6 devs. No artists included. And so you can see who you can offer. Sure you can offer many more people through outsource, but you should know who you are working with. All in all I guess you can make something worthy for 10m, but it won't be a super gigantic game. I think that Star Citizen is quite the best development process you can find when it comes to gigantic crowd founded projects. After all the best coders are working for the best studios that are having best practices for delivering finished games. If it was possible to create something outstanding in a fair time - they would do it. Still Minecraft was bought for 5 trillion dollars and underneath it is a quiet simple game at some point made by a single person. But later being redone in all the possible ways. What we can understand from this contrast is that modern PC games are already expansive. And there is never enough money to make them. But when you are spending your own money - you make sure that you are not wasting them. Crowd money is no one's money. USSR has shown this problem really well.
@@dadlord689 I can't disagree with anything you said. It's sad to watch vaporware being created and "maintained" in front of your face. I've worked on failed projects and this one stinks of leadership failure and a lack of understanding of how projects like this fail. It's not a lack of money that is sinking this one.
Let's be real, if they put the 8 mil to good use and provide proper content and showcases, they would have kept growing in the amount received and probably reached the point where they had enough money for their ambition. Instead they chose, as you said, to put out tech demos. It does not even matter anymore if they had money for the full project, what matters is that they did not deliver for the 8 mil, that's what tanked confidence in the project. People backing up projects expect others to do so as well, they don't expect the game to be made with the money that have been gathered until them, but future backings as well, that's why your friend was so keen on recommending you to prepurchase. More funds would have come, if only they did something with the first batch of money.
Excellent video about a tragic moment in crowdfunding history. Well done! If I may give a tiny bit of constructive criticism, the background music was a TAD too loud at times during the video. A good rule of thumb I use is to keep the music under -18 to -22 decibels during voiceover moments. Interludes/transitions can get louder, obviously. Wish you the best in the future!
Audio is a very tricky thing to get right explicitly due to how different a mix can sound on different devices. I know for a fact, whenever I finish a song I don't go and play it without headphones, off my phone, and out in my car before i finalize it lol.
Tragic? What's tragic about some idiots giving their money away at a any scam artist that claims to have struck gold. The tale is as old as time, yet people never seem to learn.
Here's the thing: people back Kickstarters treating it like an online store. They think they're ordering a product or making a pre-order, when the reality is that you're basically investing in someone's business idea. When you back a project, you need to do that in the full understanding that the product your backing may be delayed, may not be the thing you were promised, or might not turn up at all. Sometimes things just go wrong and it's no-one's fault. Sometimes the project owner just hasn't done their research and gets in way over their head... and yeah, sometimes it's just a straight up scam. I don't think this was an intentional scam. I think this was a case of a group of people deciding to make a game with no real idea of what they were doing, then when things inevitably went pear-shaped, they thought they could keep their game alive if they just got more money, then things spiralled. Yeah, they absolutely should have been more honest, and pulled the plug a lot earlier... but being shit at your job isn't illegal. Unless it can be proven that this was a deliberate attempt to defraud, the lawsuit isn't going anywhere.
Yep. Its no different than buying shares in a start up company. Theres zero guarantee that your investment will show returns. Granted, this could well have been a scam...but thats the chance you take when you send money to such a project. Very little to be done about it unless someone can produce evidence that these guys never used the money for the games development and never intended to
I don't know about the US - but here in Germany, while being shit at your job is not illegal, still asking for funds and acting like everythings fine after you know that you can't deliver is indeed fraudulent behaviour. (There is actually an arrest warrant requested against a German Role Playing publisher at the moment who refuses to give all the financial information about his business to the prosecutors office. They funded projects via Kickstarter year after year without completely fulfilling the former ones. We have to see how it goes further, but it can constitute fraud if you continue to collect money)
I was gonna say this is what happens when you don't teach your kids basic economics. But then I realised, I wasn't taught anything about economics, I'm just not a consoomer idiot.
It might not have started as a scam. But they would have quickly realized it wasn't even close to possible and kept taking money, turning it into a scam.
First sentence and i know where are you going here.. stop Fraud behavior we talking about here, don't be confused with shop definition. It's an agreement still, and any violation should have usual repercussions.
If an earth shattering mmo could be built for just $9m.. let alone $900k.. it would already exist. Not sure who was dreaming, the dev, the crowd funders, or both.. but they were certainly dreaming.
Yes I was thinking the same thing. How could the game gain such popularity without a big dose of reality washing back on it during the coverage saying that it's impossible to build an MMO for 900K dollars, and if they had $10 million+ lined up for a real effort why do they need the crowdfunding? Was there any sort of explanation for that on the kickstarter page?
Yes but the mathematical 'Law of Very Large Donations with Nothing To Show For It' states that even highly improbable lawsuits become practically inevitable with enough angry donors...
Kickstarter may begin implementing genre based checkpoints in the near future; whether game, movie, album, or art, you'd need to meet certain brief critera and release testable progress in order to unlock new funding opportunities. Right until the finish line.
News Flash to any would-be Kickstarter game developers. If your backers can afford $5K-$10K donations by clicking a button, they can afford lawyers, too.
Scams will go to crowd funding sources that won't, and only cartels of large corporations or government intention generally implement across the board industry standards. Crowd funding material projects is a hoping game. Period.
Reminds me of the game 7 Days to Die which to my knowledge is STILL in the alpha stages despite being released almost 10 years ago which ended up being Minecraft in HD, it was just survival and building for several years with no real story or quest system. The difference being The Fun Pimps actually GAVE us something instead of just promising something even if it was fairly basic and ended up being developed as time went on. I think the moral here is it's great to have an ambitious idea but game dev companies need to be realistic with their backers and players as well as themselves, I for one would rather a company deliver i rudimentary version of the game and take the time to work towards the finished product than have a team promise a never before seen kind of game one day 1 only to deliver a POS or nothing at all. Devs, please consider what your team is capable of before promising a game, and the backers and players need to be patient with developers as some dev teams could be as few as 10 people or even just 1, not all dev teams have the capital to hire 50 people each for graphics,programming, storyboards and more. Even if we want more the developers can only give us what they're capable of giving
I feel really bad for the employees of this studio. I empathize. I worked for a small mobile game indie-studio that was working on a passion project and it wasn't until after I was laid off that I learned it was basically running on fumes. Can't tell you how devastating it was going into work that day, ready to work and have fun, only to be told ten minutes later to pack my stuff because there wasn't any money to pay me with left. At the end of the day though, this game just wasn't realistic -- the sheer size and complexity. They bit off more than they could chew.
This is an incredible video! Straight up I don’t know if this game ever existed but if it did I’d bet money it wouldn’t have been nearly as compelling as the story you just told. Well done
As some1 working in the industry, I feel like this was a possible real game, HOWEVER, the scope of the game is simply crazy, what they wanted to do, would cost way more than $100m, it is an indie studio attempting to make a AAA game, not to mention an RPG, not to mention any RPG, but an MMO with crazy humongous feautures!?!? There is no way that this game could've been completed. The managers likely knew this too, the literal promised dates are wayyyy too fast for an indie studio making such a huge game. The producers and directors likely do not know how to manage at all, perhaps the ceo only wanted to be in control despite being a bad leader, and the people they hired would've likely not been that great seeing how this went. Perhaps they weren't fired due to the closest being too soft and being friends?
It seemed like he assumed that a bigger company / higher level engineers would buy them up and bring the game to the level they were hoping. A dangerous assumption, clearly
I was scammed on this, figured it out moderately early on and stopped paying attention. I've really appreciated the videos you've been making on this because they've helped me understand what happened and how just absurdly disingenuous this whole thing has been - if not from the start then very early on. It's a helpful reminder that though there are far fewer bad people than good, some bad people exist, and they're absolutely looking to take advantage of you. Lies are only one of their tools. Thanks again.
The problem with the crowd founding campaigns, no matter if for games or hardware or any other project is that people are asking for money to work on an idea prior to verifying whether this concept is even realizable and they are rarely held accountable in case it turns out it isn't. In the normal business world, if you ask for money, you must convince investors and investors will insist on a proof of concept and they will surely hold you accountable in case of a total failure. E.g. a lot of crowd founding campaigns come up with an idea that sounds great but the reason why nobody has ever done that is not that nobody has ever thought of it but that it is physically impossible, which some people had to find out the hard way, yet their failure never went public, so people don't know that this concept has been tried hundreds of times already and has failed every single time. When you imagine the game of your dreams, you may have an idea what the game should look like, but when you start working on it, you may realize, that your game requires a minimum of 128 GB RAM to run as planned. That isn't reasonable. The majority of computers simply don't have that much RAM and people won't buy that much RAM just to play your game. So you need to downscale it to something more reasonable, like 8 GB of RAM. However, then you game cannot look and function the way you imagined it. It won't be the game you've promised as the game you've promised cannot be done with today's hardware and that's why such a game does not exist and not because existing game designers are not creative enough to come up with such a genius game idea. In other case the game could have been made, sure, but not with such a tiny team, not in such a short time span, and not with such a ridiculous little budget. If you are realistic, you need a team of 50+ people, the game will take 8 years to be done and it will cost many, many millions of dollars - which means the game will never pay off, as you cannot ever sell enough copies or raise the price high enough to ever get that money back. Again, that's the reason why the big game studies have not made such a game yet and not the fact that they are stupid or unwilling to make such a game but the fact that they have to make profit from what they are doing. I don't think most failed crowd foundings had malicious intend, I think that those people really believed in their idea/product but they didn't really invest enough time upfront to check if anything of that is really doable. Quite often there is not even the shadow of a prototype in sight or a realistic proof of concept on paper. There aren't even calculations or a business plan, there is just an idea and some people are naive enough to believe that "When you can think it, you can build it", yet that isn't the case. You can think of Perpetual Motion Machines but you cannot build them.
Many here are insulted as gamers, but I am insulted as a professional software developer. This is probably the most egregious example of several cons. Maybe at some point the team of 12 thought they could deliver, but from a very early stage, likely before they made the Kickstarter campaign, they knew it was impossible. The "pre-alpha" footage were obviously just renders. Not just renders, but renders with CGI superior to most movies. They poured a lot of time into those, and appeared to be trying to find game developers who could make that into reality. I've met developers who were contracted by ordinary Joe's who wanted them to make smartphones out of off-the-shell boards and parts, while hearing their coworkers getting yelled at with racial slurs. The developers bought a Belview mansion and hoped that would entice developers to do the impossible. But they couldn't, so they lived in it and partied while passing themselves off as professionals. They could have minimized the damage, but they thought if they dissappeared without giving people what they paid for, they could get away with it. What a scam by idiots. These people sicken me because it makes it near impossible for REAL indie developers to get off the ground
Work hard enough and if your products good it will speak for itself don't be worrying about what others are doing throwing blame around what they did isn't going to affect you what will affect you is how good your work is
@@HYSTERIA-ee2re I can't say you're entirely wrong, but economically assumes people are reasonable. Plus for all most donors knew, the pre-alpha footage WAS real. They just didn't go about fact-checking. That said, they should before giving away money
"sickening"? really? Just one of many mismanaged projects in IT. And for the backers... You wanna preorder games? fool me once. You wanna fund projects from companies without reputation? fool me twice. You wanna "invest" in a software startup? Fool me... you get the idea.
Moral of the story: don’t spend 10 thousand dollars on a game that haven’t even come out yet. People might argue that the trailers looked really promising so they spent money for donations but honestly that’s not even true, most of the trailers were literally just a character walking around doing absolutely nothing. Most of the features of the game that people payed for were not even shown in the trailers or even mentioned. This game was a flat out scam and the fact that the developers couldn’t even make a decent looking game with 8 million in donations is baffling. (I do however feel very bad for the victims of this scam hoping for a good game).
It's like the land of the lotus eaters. Pay in and your souls is theirs and they keep asking for more but only ever deliver flashy things with no substance
I think that was the whole point, to show that all those sorts of interactions were possible in their game. Dodging, and fighting in various terrain, as the princess bride fight showed. In hindsight it points to a darker motive behind using that scene, but at the time I'm sure the fans were incredibly excited that such actions were possible.
This isn't unusual in proof of concept videos. Meant so the viewer had an easy basis for comparison. Problem being in this case it was almost definitely hand done animations, with no kind of gameplay/combat engine behind it.
@@chrisblake4198 That's what I think - they've just used the Princess Bride scene as a basis for a pre-rendered animation. It looks cool, but that is time wasted that should have gone into the actual game. In fact, I'd say they've blown a lot of money just making fancy animations disconnected from any game engine!
Yup. I looked at those faces and just thought "You guys definitely had a really shit time of your lives... I'm so sorry." When people are making decisions who have no business making them, good workers are made to squander their time on bad plans. The inevitable story is one of tech debt, dead-ends, changes of technology and direction, re-builds, new hires with new ways of doing things. And that is development quicksand.
Renegade Line, it was on kickstarter, project funded fully, they developed it a bit, played like a closed alpha. It was like Battlefield Heroes, hence why I liked it. a while later, the devs said they're pausing development as it was a passion project or something, don't remember the details exactly, and then they disappeared and it's been years since we heard a peep. The Kickstarter I don't regret paying was the for the game UBOAT, I love that game, some of the best indie devs out there.
@@JF.90 Like lmao it looks like fucking oldschool runescape from 2001, how can you create something looking so fucking basic and shitty looking it runs on java xD
.....You made me spit grape juice on my onesie... ... ... ... Ok, I realize that sentence SOUNDS weird, but I have a horrendous cold and I'm coping by binging YT vids....I DO WHAT I WANT!!!
I love how they created a game which could be easily made with 2 people moderately familiar with game dev and 5-20k US dollars and 1-2 months of development. That's insane.
That's just it, though; You can't say that they created a game which could easily be made by 2 people because - as far as anyone can tell - they never actually created a game. All we really know that they created was a whole lot of PR and professional-looking video, art and screenshots and, just maybe, an incredibly brief and poor quality interactive demo. That's not actually a game.
I've only recently found - and subscribed - to your channel. Your documentaries on the history of games being developed are extremely well made and edited. They are very fascinating since you clearly do a lot of research to incorporate into your videos. I think you should have millions of subscribers.
let me start by saying I have never posted on a TH-cam video or heard of this game, I randomly came upon this watching something else. You have skills man, investigative journalism quality and you did your homework rather than just rant. Congrats and good luck in whatever you focus on you have my sub.
It feels like most of the comment section forgets that they didn't even ask for 8 million. They asked for 900k. _They thought they could build one of the most ambitious MMORPG ideas with just 900k $_ when even experienced game studios with much less ambitious plans pretty much never go below 100 million for a proper MMO 😂 Also, I'm sorry but I'm gonna be that person: people THINK they know what they want, but the reality is, they don't. There is a lot of stuff that always sounds so cool in concept, but when actually playing it, no one actually wants that. Imagine logging on everyday to only ever toll away on the fields for someone else, to have to ask another player for permission to even build a house or get married or go exploring beyond the single plot of land you spawned on. That's what feudalism is, sorry. Imagine dedicating years of your life to your account and then your character just dies and everything you worked for vanishes. Imagine managing to build a small kingdom and then one of the 10k backers comes in with his giant bought pre-made kingdom and destroys everything you built up. And so on. There's a reason we don't see these systems in other, working MMOs - because they are just a bad idea in the first place.
exactly I was thinking it would be a garbage game even if it did live up to its promises. It's literally a real life simulator at that point might as well just go outside and do it in person
The first mistake was settling his company his Seattle. I don't think he had intentions to scam, but definitely miscalculated how much everything would actually cost.
Yours is an excellent comment that will sadly be blown off by most people. In the workers’ defense, most other cities that are not west or east coast suck to live in.
I believe that they wanted to attract the world best developers but missed on important point...the pay for those world best developer lol. Probably bad management budgeting and planning is the main reason for this flop. Tbh I have seen indie devs do way better job with their extremely limited funds it's painful to think they struggle so much when they have so much to offer. Anyway, people are too gullible they want games that will revolutionize everything and more than ambitious the truth is all that is feasible but the cost amount of planning and human capital that must come with it is no joke.
Yea? What are you gonna hire tier 1 developers in Wenatchee? Companies eat those costs because that’s where the developers and skilled workers are and the wages are higher and information and technical exchange makes it worth it. It’s why Amazon still put a campus in New York despite having its tax benefits taken from it.
I can’t believe people fell for this. -That few people on a team -Such a small amount of funding -that short amount of time -making claims as wild as they promised; things not even MMOs with hundreds of millions of dollars and teams quadruple the size could pull off It’s insane people believed this. I feel bad for them.
Why feel bad for the dumb people that believe scams like this? I mean, you pointed out a lot of red flags; why couldn't they see it? I don't feel bad for them at all. But, that's just me. To each their own, friend.
Just watched this video for the first time after following Kira for the past year or so, including Kingdoms of Deleria vids. It is excellent. Explained the whole sad drama so clearly.
Holy crap when the game goes from a kinda amateur attempt at photo-realistic fantasty textures to that flat shaded Nintendo wii looking stuff. Just amazing.
Anyone else remember when the first time you heard about a game was when you saw it available for sale? All the press hype these days has allowed lazy devs to promise far more than they can deliver. Then along comes crowdfunding and boom, vaporware.
My favorite game (teardown) i furst heard about on a youtube vid when it whas stil in development i tink most poepie now heer about a game from youtube
Yes I do!!!! And the quality of the game was also at the highest they were able to achieve!!!! Now most developers just string us along for years!!!!! With tiny DLC's and micro transactions... Gta5 for a perfect example!!!! Makes me sick.
@@memesarentfunny2248 I now have a serious case of eye cancer due to the two posts by cthulhu (no surprise there ;-)) and Suxix (multiple exclamation marks…)
anyone with 3dsmax and substance could put something like that in ue4 in a day, if you use pre made assets your talking like an hour not including the time it takes to set up the terrain materials and shaders etc. essentially the alpha footage they showed of the city was an environment with a basic sculpt of what looked like a ue4 environment with very basic models and textures xD
@@thirstyserpent1079 I've personally made better over a weekend back in college using UE4. You could easily tell it was made with UE4, and my guess they abandoned using it when they realized they would ask for a portion of the millions they made; money they probably already spent.
@@paulghignon4092 There are free asset packs on the market place right now with similar quality for the building and prop packs and tutorials for beginners that would let them throw something together in a week at most. Millions of dollars and numerous devs over the course of years should necessitate something far ore impressive xD
When a game promises you "freedom to actually do literally anything" and it's not dwarf fortress or something like that: they're not going to deliver the product as advertised
@@Glaswalker1001 dwarf fortress is an incredibly specific kind of game. You have to intentionally ignore that fact to think that I meant "dwarf fortress or any fucking game ever"
@@Glaswalker1001 It's incredibly hard to define past "Roguelike RPG simulation building and management strategy game" ad it's very deep and complex. The Adventure mode is essentially an rpg open world version of "rogue" or "nethack" which technically makes it a roguelike game. It's a very complex game inspired by a very complex game. Another good game, which is smaller, but still gives the players a lot of options is space station 13 which is an online rpg game with a limb system kinda like in dwarf fortress, tons of tools and even a chemistry system. I think rpg simulator is the thing you want to target if you want to make a "you're free to do whatever the fuck" game. And then you build upon that foundation to make it into a game you want it to be, be it an online mayhem with space clowns and cancermancers or a booze driven fortress building game.
@@Trigger0x10c so all you are saying is that you can't see how a game with very limited graphics could be realized within another engine with better ones. Because everything you stated is just a style limitation as far as I can see. And even dwarf fortress didn't have the depth and complexity it now has back when it was invisioned, did it?
exactly. "alpha releases" and "beta releases" are just ways to release a game and when people find bugs (because the devs are too lazy to work them out themselves) they can just say "bUt tHe GaMe Is iN BeTa"
Indeed and with no need for 25 patches and very few bugs. Now there are companies like Paradox that basically sell an alpha for full retail price and sells you dlc for 10 years for that alpha.
Star citizen is still taking thousands from individuals long after that kickstarter finished. There's some loyalty program when you've spent over $27000 and there are members,
@@rwentfordable At least you can play Star Citizen and it does get updates. Sure progress is slow but you can't say they haven't been delivering. But yeah, not to big of a fan of how they are making their money, but at least they aren't selling their souls for it.
this guy is a visionary, he created a pay to win game but without the game part
Truly Amazing
It just works
"Backers paid, I won. What's the problem?"
half of mobile gachas are following his great example
Currently working on my new game for mobile. It's literally just a red button on screen, and when you press it, it deducts $1 from your bank account and shows a line of golden text: "You Win!!". You have the freedom of choice of being able to press the button as many times as you want. I'm already designing a leaderboard to show the names of the people who've pressed the button the most. It's your job to beat their numbers.
This guy started a Kickstarter >collected 8mil >made the game > played by himself only > shut down the game. This guy is not a scammer, This guy is what every scammer dreams to become
Sounds like the Intellivision Amico console but there it was 13 million dollars
Him and his wife.
capitalism in a nutshell
this guy and the guy from star citizen should colab, make billions and just endlessly develop a game
Gigachad.
the words “you can literrally do anything” is usually a red flag for me.
Although that is the tag line of the game Leslie Benzies is working on and he made the GTA games.
Well it might sound crazy but if a person is gonna lie an unbelievable lie will have more peoples trust than a believable one
Red flag, sure. Doesn’t mean it can’t be done. If you like scifi (I know, completely different type of game) look into Dual Universe. Currently in Alpha 2 stage I believe (haven’t jumped on in a bit because...life) but it I can personally tell you it is already impressive!
@@accunutoutdoors2717 it also means "make your own fun" that kind of unfocused direction is stupid and devs have no creative plan. Do everything lol the amount of programming to facilitate all that might as well just simulate real life and let people do degenerate things.
Cyberpunk 2077 has entering the chat.
For anyone looking for an update:
The lawsuit was just dismissed in court and will not be proceeding. There may be an attempt of an appeal, but for now it's unknown. Caspian called it a victory and another "phase of the heros journey"
The lawsuit against xsolla will be going to court.
The lack of information and transparency is what gets me. Backers kept in the dark while nothing gets done. I feel terrible for them.
He really sees himself as some sort of hero
was the judge appointed by obama?
How the heck did he win
We need another hero to launch another lawsuit
It won’t do jack mate the US legal system is broke and if you look at fines the government makes companies pay it pails in comparison to how much they maid in the scam of sorts. To be more clear said company makes 25billon off corruption and the fine is only 75millon that’s less than .5% of profit.
Maybe the real Elyria was the class action lawsuits we made along the way.
Hah! thats a good one!
I only give up my money when the game is out to be seen, and there are reviews of what people found. I can tolerate an early access if it is below 20 dollars.
@Frank Marano I make 80$ an hour so even 10000 would make me broke.
@Frank Marano I'm a prostitute. I can talk to my pimp to see if he is hiring new staff.
@@SSMateuszSS only $80/hr?
When the idea starts with "the most ambitious" and "kickstarter", just turn back and run as fast as you can.
Lol fucktard incel gamers are so easy to fool and scam.
There is Kingdom Come that was actually saved by Kickstarter..
@@Doriannae A lot of people shit on that game though, mainly because people aren't interested in slow progression or immersion anymore. It has to be flashy, fast and pay them chemically immediately. I do think Kingdom Come was amazing though, so many unique moments and the world really drew me in... Talking from a pretty well seasoned gamers perspective too, but it doesn't make the cut for most. :)
I have backed 2 games on Kickstarter Kingdom Come and Star Citizen, have played hundrests of hours and did not regret my descission.
Look up Ashes of Creation. Thats how you do a kickstarter right. Im a 250$ backer rn. Seriously they are such a good company and the ceo is a millionaire before he started making the game. So he doesnt make shit mistakes like these idiots.
If only people held their politicians as responsible as their game developers, the world would probably be a much better place.
True, I would like to see politicians taken to court for breaking their election promises. I'm pretty sure that's all of them.
this is so true and so depressing. People rally so much for so many pretty unimportant things but when it comes to truely meaningfull stuff, people just wave it away
@@TheHorreK2 agreed my friend... agreed 😒😔
There is always one moron that has to politicize everything. Go back tonyour corner before you get slapped
The lack of literal pitchforks and guillotines in modern politics is very disappointing.
I don't understand how you can have $10,000 to spare and decide to pay for a kingdom in a video game that doesn't even exist yet
probably some dumb richies who think that 10k is pocketchange
Stupidity is even harder to understand than intelligence. But it is just that - stupidity.
FOMO
@@Bucketus.Lord.of.Buckets the game doesn't exist, what are you missing out on?
@st54nanolea68 ppl were excited asf for the game and likely wanted to have as big of an advantage as possible. Also, since its an mmo, it would give them a lot of control over the in-game economy
Here’s the lesson: if a studio that has never put out a game before is trying to crowdfund a AAA game, assume it’s a scam.
I thought that's common sense (at least for adults), but I guess not
By your logic, people shouldn't have funded Subverse. HAHAHA
@@mehseeyew9180 what's Subverse?
A 16 people studio developing a AAA MMO that promises to be groundbreaking and that in 2 years, is so incredibely unrealistic that I am surprised so many people bought into it.
@@xAravin25x just shows they bought into a promise, not a game lol
If I ever end up Kickstarting a game, I'm going to make a $10k tier that gives people a copy of the game with a completed save file. You don't even have to play the game. You already won. Congrats.
If you can blow 10Gs on a game at the snap of a finger then you've won life. Or a quick trip to a homeless shelter.
I believe those 10k donations are probably some teenagers of rich parents just throwing Daddys money at it
If it were an MMO-RPG, i would make those rich backers as special account with special privilege in game.
10k bro. 10k. they deserve it.
sad thing about this, it will actually work, because 99% of players nowdays RUSH RUSH RUSH and they're not even interested in playing, they only want to see the end credits run. So make a 10k tier and give them end-credits where your character sails off into the sunset with credits running "thank you so much for playing, you have completed the awesome game that will take over 10 years for normal players to complete"
I've had 5 diff kickstarters and of those all 5 were either broken, garbage or didn't work as advertised then the maker like the product was gone. Never use kickstarter.
While you all condemn and criticize this man, Ubisoft, EA, and Activision praises him highly! 8 million USD raised with no game!? That's like the holy grail for those companies, lol
And EA,don't forget those little bastards too
Anthem came shortly after. See they learn.
@@agent_of_cthulhu Easy money, game thats literally unplayable and took money from everyone who fell for it
Dont forget EA
Activision and EA have been releasing more or less the same game almost every year for 2 decades...
For a lot less money, one could buy an awesome knight cosplay costume, move to Elyria, Ohio and walk around the shit city dressed as a knight fighting off muggers, robbers, rapists, rabbid dogs and the occasional coyote while at the same time livestreaming the whole ordeal creating your own chronicle.
Or Chicago
@@HenryCortezWarrp that’s the “Hardcore” difficulty setting.
@Benny From Fallout New Vegas I don't think knight armor is bullet proof
@@numbersbubbleyours bones would break but i don't think you would get a bullet wound
And you could buy a decent plot of land as well
Damn that "playable alpha" compared to the original screenshots hurt my feelings and I didn't even give them any money
The original videos were probably captured using Frame rate independent macros inside the game engine. Unity has a bunch of them and no matter how bad your games frame-rate is, you are able to make videos as if it was being played at 60fps. That is why it was mostly just fly-threws and not real gameplay. Then when the fake developers tried to play the game, they didn't know how to optimize enough to make it playable, so they had to dump all the graphics. Real developers kinda do it to cheat because optimization is usually late in the process, so you use the capture macros for your marketing, knowing you will most likely be able to optimize a good bit in the future, so your gameplay FPS will be similar to what you showed in those early videos.
It looked like new RuneScape lol
Imagine given them 10000$ and waited for 6 years to eventually see the real game footage... I would have a heart attack and die !
i just came here to ruin your 666 like, now take my 667
Imagine the face of backer who pledged 10k$ for it
Hail, and well met Elyrians! Your generous donation of $1,750 will secure you a Demon Soul and a Saddled Great Beast (both theoretical ideas not yet worked on) . Ride around (possibly) with Honor , with Respect , and defeat your enemies (we're working on creating). With one more small donation of $3,500 you will (maybe) secure your stronghold for your Guild (if anybody plays) and your place in Elyrian history (once we render a world) will be solidified. In just 6 more months (maybe years) you will set forth on your epic journey and explore our possible ideas in an exhilarating text-based format complete with 800×600 images of your purchases!
Holy shit underrated comment
that is so underrated lemme write something for the algorithm to catch on
Hear hear!!
up lol
@Skane Khunt 42 Aww you just had to be bitter lol are you that unoriginal? You can't make a joke of your own so you just hate on people who make jokes
Chronicles of Elyria was the first mobile game ad before mobile games ads even existed
LMAO
⚰️⚰️⚰️
And the funny thing is, there are several mobile MMORPGs that are better than that piece of junk.
The graphics downgrade is actually shocking. Devs spent years promising Skyrim, and released a video of old school RuneScape.
For real, like you can see from the stutter in the early videos that the game could never handle the initial graphics they were promising. Buy the second version isn't like one or two steps down graphically, it's a whole fucking staircase
@@FilthyGringo the game clearly fell down said staircase, this entire case is a shitshow
@@FilthyGringo it could handle the initial promised graphics. given that its not an unoptimized unreal engine assef flip slop
@@abbcc5996 But a fully destructible environment in an MMO? How exactly does that work? Do players always have to download entire chunks of maps every time they travel? And the assets are not just simple blocks like in Minecraft.
Old school Runescape visuals are fun!
I didn’t even know about this game but damn do I feel like I needed a refund after watching this.
Lmao same
The site doesn't really care if it's a scam. They get paid no matter what. That should be a really big red alarm. When you read the rules it should give you even more alarms. Kickstarter doesn't hold any responsibility and suing the site will not help. Check the agreement you agreed to when creating an account. It's a very american agreement. Unfortunately for the site other countries like in EU renders much of the agreement null and void. You can't sign away certain rights in civilized countries and since they do accept payments from EU citizens which means the site must adhere to certain EU laws, the site can be in deep trouble if someone gets pissed enough which will force the site to block EU citizens in the end. The site can be fined a lot of money. (America have long way to go before it can be called civilized. For one they still don't use the metric system. For another Americans laws put companies as first citizen and protect companies more than the individual rights of people).
Giving strangers your money for a product that doesn't exist yet is probably a bad idea overall
@@JesusCheeseburger I wish I had low enough standards to steal people's money like this. Man, people will spend their money on fucking anything, it's all right there for the taking.
@@rowenkylee5627 All of this except the metric system part. Technically, we do use the metric system. All US units are defined by their metric counterparts now. Most companies and most of the government use metric directly. It's just kept the same because it would cost billions to suddenly shift all public-facing units to metric and would cause widespread chaos by having people who have spent decades using imperial switch to some completely unknown (to them) system. We've started teaching metric in schools. We're phasing in metric everywhere, changing things over time. I'm sorry we don't want to cause the complete collapse of our country over base 10 vs base 12 measurements. Fuck right off with that one.
Everything you said else is correct, we're a third world country that went to a Halloween party as a first world country but never took the costume off. We're uncivilized af. And I hate it here. But not using the metric system has fuck all to do with any of that.
This dude literally LARPed as a game studio for six years, writing production logs like he was Peter Jackson posting updates about the Hobbit, whilst in reality, he had a handful of rookie programmers in a room somewhere trying to figure out how to texture a model without it looking like it was made in 2002.
Nice summary
XD
"trying to figure out how to texture a model without it looking like it was made in 2002."
And failing.
Exactly like Peter Jackson and the Hobbit then.
In other words, kickstarter, pledgers ignorance allowed a novice to take their money in hopes of that novice creating a AAA title magically.
Bro WHAT?!
I've never heard of this game and seeing how they casually tried to play off decently nice graphics and world to going to 2006 Runescape is absolutely mind-blowing. What a time to be alive
the difference is that 2006 runescape was good.
Everyone who loves runescape like never heard of ultima online which came out pre 2000 and had everything and more of Runescape Better graphics lol and well I guess not so many Quests but that is actually a good thing.
"Decently nice graphics" lol have you played anyOpen-world rpg at all since 2005?
@@jootpepet I kinda get ya, but Honestly When was the last time Pretty Graphics kept you in a game? FOR ME, NEVER...Black Desert...even....nope...and I played at launch...ID still play Ultima online today...But I was Always Gameplay OVER graphics. Most MMOS today are SOO SAMEY...ALIKE that they all FEEL the same and is why So many exist and So many Fail.
mmorpg.com you will hear of every game down to an idea on a napkin
If anyone was curious, Caspian in his most recently blog post has stated that Kingdoms of Elyria: Settlements will release in 2023.
What about now 😂
@@avavavaa After adamantly saying that Kingdoms of Elyria will release by the end of 2023, the September 2023 blog post, he said he would be pushing back the release date (what a surprise). There haven't been any new blog posts since then.
This game sucks
@@altruisticlemur and nobody believed him
12:45 They really claimed that their developers, who were JUST laid off, would be "willing" to do the same job they used to get _paid_ for in their *"spare time?!"* 🤣🤣🤣
It's just one of many placating type statements to try to defuse people from contemplating lawsuits.
@@animejanai4657 thats just delaying the inevitable
Companies (especially scummy ones) often try to delay any negative consequences, and to slowly tire angry people out by leading them on. That way they create the illusion that this isn't completely over yet, and the momentum of the mob is being diffused more and more, until one day they just ghost everyone and go into hiding. Or so they hope.
actually yes, they sometimes do, because they are emotionally invested in their product.
For what it’s worth this has happened before. Especially in the film industry. Sadly I cannot name any as my memory does not serve me the best but I know I have heard of this occurring multiple times
People just doing it for the fact that it was their baby and they wanted to see it done. It’s about the art. Not the money. So this claim isn’t outlandish.
Heck look at TH-camrs. They do this all the time. This very video could very well be this example. Doing it for the sake of doing it with no assured cash flow. Because they want to
I think most crowdfunding is a scam, but in defense of game developers. You'd be surprised just how hard it is to make a game. Most indie games fail due to overly ambition game devs not having the technical ability to finish their project. I would argue a successful indie game is an exception, not the norm.
Makes me wonder how many of these NFT games will actually come to fruition.
Omori be like
Actually I did some analytical work and most of it is just unfamiliarity and inexperience with crowdfunding (plus minus some people catching greed after seeing this kind of money for the first time in their lives).
Some dev teams try to shortsell themselves only to find them running out of their kickstarter budget. Others aren’t versed in or/ms enough to pinpoint how much segments of development costs what.
If you made it through and developed well, you get games like Skull Girls. If you don’t, then there’s a slew of games that have had hype but no release.
I think "most" is a stretch, since I've crowdfunded well over 100 projects and had non-delivery on 1.
I think just completing a game, successful or otherwise, is already a small achievement. Lots of games just don't get finished
Announcing that your game is going into Development Hell by relating it to the Hero’s Journey is an absolutely hilarious decision
Especially when you bury that tidbit of information in the bottom of an extremely long blog post lol.
When I saw that I was like do they think that they are talking to children
Never underestimate how much people will underestimate you
Yeah, especially after people spent enormous amounts of money on it. Like, “the abyss”? Is it just a joke to them?
They literally tried to sell that excuse like it was it's own game/adventure. LMAO
I like how graphic in the footages progressively got worse and worse
Yeah wtf from Skyrim -> Runescape -> Minecraft -> Next version of the game will be 8-bit side scroller.
Those optimization updates.
I know right. If it kept going it would have eventually turned into a 2D side-scroller 😆
When they said they were having trouble finding the proper engineers for their idea, it should have been a massive red flag, tbh. It's literally them saying "So, we can't actually make the game we promised you unless we hire someone to do it for us"
Yea getting core engineers for your MMO is basically the hardest thing, because network engineers and core engineers that can actually deliver at that level command huge salaries (especially ones with the experience required to avoid creating something that blows the game up in alpha/beta) and are usually working at the big studios. So, you would in most cases need to attempt to get them to a) quit their well-paying job with a high-quality studio b) move across the country (in many cases) c) accept a much smaller salary for years on end d) convince them why your idea is so uber awesome and great, and so much better than their current project at AAA studio x -- and finally, many of these engineers sign contracts that lock them in for x years on a project, so there's that too.
So yea... tiny startup studio with barely any capital wants to build "next gen" MMO game that no-one has attempted before because "everyone else is stupid and i'm the only one who actually wants to build an amazing game like this" *rolls eyes*
@@mavor101 Yeah, and just to be clear we're talking about salaries in the $150,000-200,000 USD range here (for a senior / lead sort of role).
@@samjones3044 Yep + the actual scarcity of engineers like that. Need some artwork or whatever done? You can outsource that to India... not so with the guys putting together your core networking code, lol.
@@mavor101 You don't want to always outsource your art to some random in India.
Imo, if the person starting the project isn't the person to do the hard things, like the game engine, server structure etc. then you can't trust anything they promise in terms of cost, delivery time or even if it's at all possible.
Anyone promising a game should be able to code the hard stuff themselves. Hire in the artists, but don't count on being able to get the engineers to do what you want to do. It's a typical manager disease to think that you can just hire in the tech people.
I had a mate who worked as a project lead on Skyrim. He pissed himself laughing when he heard that people were funding this game. Knowing what Skyrim cost he says that the promises made for Elyria are literally impossible to meet based on the money raised unless it were made with 2D sprites and such.
I think folks had good intentions of having some die hard programmers work with freedom and get paid as they went along.I also worked on a a game years ago and sadly with the way these work is you need several high paying jobs for all sorts of people like artists--programmers--editors--even voice acting. Also once the game had problems with programming issues--there was probably not enough money to get top notch programmers to clean it up and they proabably overworked a few die hard ones for close to nothing that just patched it up here and there.curt schilling even went broke trying to fund games. You also need engineers if this game was going to be online or on other platforms like xbox.It would have almost been better to get millions upfront--spend a 100k to see if it is feasible and if not return the money--but it is impossible to try and string a major game together and to have money come in increments--cause that is how folks will work--in incrments and a game this massive has to be worked on constantly.
@@khronin I have never worked in game development before so I'll have to take your word for what you think would have been a good idea on a way to realise the game. From an outsider's perspective, based on what my friend said about Skyrim and it's huge budget, and the fact that I closely followed the mess that surrounded Kingdoms of Amaleur (loved the game at the time personally, shame to think that the original Devs might not see anything from the re-release) and the massive budget that game had, Chronicles of Elyria never seemed realistic to me, exciting certainly. It seemed like a budget at least in line with Skyrim would have been necessary to meet all the promises the Devs made.
Mind if I ask what game you worked on? I assume you no longer work in the industry? If not, is there a reason?
That's why I always get annoyed when Kickstarter funding is used for large projects like this. The arcade game used in the video is the perfect example of what a Kickstarter video game project should be: an independent developer (or a small, close group of people) earning enough funds to get paid to work on a smaller project they are willing to devote their own time to. Start-ups looking to compete against established companies by using Kickstarter as a replacement for traditional funding is such a red flag. Those companies cannot pay for their staff or resources with only a few million dollars while they make a project that could take years.
@@RariettyC One thing folks do not consider is much of the game is spent fixing bugs. On a game I worked on as a tester--there was a secret door in the game that was glitched--it took a team of people a week to just fix that one bug--that bug probably cost 10s of thousands to fix and there were others--especially if the game is online. I never even buy any new xbox one games--i wait 6 months to maybe over a year so the game is patched several times and works good.here is an example--i just started playing fallout 76--which is what 2 years old--and have experienced several glitches--killed a ghoul and its gun was floating in the air--also I opened a door and it glitched and had me blocked in the space between it and the wall and I had to relog.
I was gonna say, didn't Skyrim cost like in the area of 80-100 million dollars to make? How the hell did they plan on doing this with only 900k in the beginning lol.
(30 years have passed)
-Finally get your copy of The Chronicles of Elyria.
-Game Boots Up.
-Hear horse carriage though a black screen.
-"At last! The game we've all been waiting for!"
-Your main character wakes up in a back of a horse carriage.
-The NPC next to you notices "Hey, You're Finally Awake."
-SKYRIM
-"Gosh damn it Todd Howard! You clever bastard! You got us to buy Skyrim for 8 Million Dollars!"
THE END
Move along outlander!
my ancestors are smiling at me imperials, can you say the same?
"Where are they taking us?!"
"Where do you think; end of the line..."
I used to be an adventurer like you, till' I took a class action lawsuit to the knee..
It just WORKS! :^)
What do we learn from this?
*As Game devs:*
- DON'T try to be a revolutionizer immediately
- If something doesn't exist yet, maybe it's because even big studios with all the money and recourses in the world couldn't figure it out. Not because they didn't want to, but because it's not doable, so far
- If you're unknown, start with a simple game, that's cheap, but also easy to produce, that is fun to play though. And once you made it, aim for ever growing projects afterwards. Or to say it in gaming terms: Don't try to beat the final boss, before you even played the tutorial level for the first time.
*As donaters:*
- Don't stop using your brain, when you donate money
- If an unknown developer offers something "too good to be true", it usually isn't true
- Don't spend more money than you can afford to throw in the trash, in case the game won't deliver
I’d moreso recommend developer to developer not to take on big projects if you just don’t feel like it when everything relies on you
I’m unknown and make ‘large scale’ projects though they’re mostly train simulators so 60+% of the time you spend is moddelling the scenery
I don’t and won’t ever ask for money, simply because I’m doing it for my own enjoyment and escape from reality
But as i said, if you’re a sole developer, don’t ‘outdo your best’ otherwise you’ll likely burn yourself out and the game will take forever
These are very good points. I think a lot of new game devs get to big with their wishes, want to much but sadly can't make it.
EA is gonna hire this guy asap
give this man a studio on EA so he has a team, hell hes perfect, with a team thats capable he can actually release a couple of flops so he can get paid and not have a class action law suit
Your character getting old and dying sounds like The Sims 😄
@@gdust6579 sounds like a boring game. I play games to escape life not remind me of it
The worst part is that... there could be a legit amazing team of developers who will never get funding because of the tainted history of crowd funding :(
Then they should make a demo that's almost a full game and show what they can do instead of just giving people drawings and pictures of 3d models
@@sauceru99 yeah, an amazing team of developers would at the least be very much capable of actually presenting something worth funding.
Larian did a wonderful job with Divinity 2 Original Sin, which was crowd funded.
@@sauceru99 demos for projects this ambitious dont work
@@wtfimcrying then that point should have been where they realize they can't actually produce it. If you can't even get an approximate working on a smaller state the. You shouldn't be making that game
@@Kronos_LordofTitans im not saying that they couldnt produce a demo. im just saying the demo format doesnt fit games like these. you wouldnt be able to encapsulate the game at all in a demo.
As an indie dev working on a game project myself for 3 years, this is just insane.
How can you build small bad amateurish looking scenes with marketplace (mostly free) assets on a free game engine (I guess it's Unity), record some videos and raise 8 million for this?
There's so many TH-cam videos of 3D environments made by non professionals in UE4, CryEngine or Unity that looks wayyyyy more serious than this crap.
Who will believe in other projects after this?
'Who will believe in other projects after this?' That's the real tragedy. Stuff like this really hurts the prospects of crowdfunding legitimate games by honest studios. It also hurts the whole Early Access concept. A lot of cool game projects and ideas will never get the funding or support they need because of a-holes like them. On the other hand, perhaps that's a blessing in disguise? Early Access is a cool concept, but it seems destined to fail due to lots of bad actors and how gullible people are.
@@XpaceTrue i think they're honest as any indie game studio out there that dream release their awesome game...they just don't get the bigger picture and how vast the game they promise to deliver, the ceo must be one of the "i dream xyz game" guy without ever lay hands on making MMO game before..and plus the illusion of easy game engine sowed by entity such as unity and unreal..
Because beimg an indie dev is not the same as being a mmorpg.
Im sorry but you are the reason why many indie devs are trying so hard to develop (and scam people) creating mmorpgs thinking its just another genre of videogames
you know whats sad is that you know you could take like a fraction of that $ and make a nice functioning game yourself, but nope lets just put all that $ down the shitter or wherever it went.
"Who will believe in other projects after this"
Oh but this works everytime.
See this is why I keep my projects inside of development communities. Because every time I feel I'm close to finishing something I realize I need to go 5 steps back to make 6 steps forward. Doing Solo Game Dev is even harder.
I am at a point with my current project that I am very nearly at the 1/6th mark of the game and even then I wouldn't start posting about it much less asking for support while developing it. Maybe when I get 2/3rd done where all that's left is some cleaning up before Alpha then sure. If I knew I could hit alpha in like 5 months then yeah. But that means I have a functioning game already.
How do people ignore THAT many red flags though? It's incredible
Hope is one hell of a drug.
Cause everyone would like that one thing too good to be true to become reality
I was 15/16 I was very gullible
Gamers, and especially MMO players really are gullible and easy to take advantage of
The Sunk Cost Fallacy plays a big role in this I think.
I remember when this came across Kickstarter. I read the goals and the supposed release dates and went, "Nope, that's never happening." Seems I chose wisely.
a good discerning eye can keep you out of most avoidable situations
I heard about that too and had the same reaction. I've only recently dipped my toes in backing a game on kickstarter (Eiyuden Chronicles) and even then I only pledged what I was okay with being out - less then $100.
Yeah even peter molyneux with a tons of money and experience and a team of vet developpers wasnt able to fulfill these kind of promise lol
@@ratboi535
Most people today were not born when Fable was released and Sean Murray's No man Sky is more relevant or CDPR smokescreen of 8 years lying by making demo on a game who did not exist and was only in development for 2 years.
@@robertagren9360 no man sky lies were kinda possible to achieve I guess they were even able to do so with the recent comeback while most peter molyneux lies ,not just about fable, were completely mad bonker and impossible to achieve just like this game the video is based on
when it switched from trailer to updated gameplay I literally spit out all my food laughing.
😄
Imagine having bought the 10k package and see that footage... I'd probably pass out from stress.
@@glitched-be8036 you'd hope the people who dropped 10k could afford to chuck it away haha
@@gregorygannon4072 They could afford it especially as the 10k was just the package, and not all the extras that they bought over the years. One of the 'kings' bought spent over 50k to include a second 10k package.
@@ruthgar9753 that's so mad, that's a crazy amount of money
Did they really expect us not to notice that the swordfighting "gameplay" is just the sword fight between Inigo and Westley in The Princess Bride? 9:15
That's what I was thinking lol
We once dreamt about making our own game, but after doing some maths and realising the amount of money it would cost us we instead decided to create a series of short stories that we publish on the web for people to read for free.
Link?
@@sergiorubens8475 Link ?
lol, i think he's referring to the game in the video xD like how most of the things the backers actually got are blog posts instead of playing the game (or i could be wrong)
Link
Link?
Who would even support this game in the first place, even the previous " Gameplay " footage looked like one of those LVL 30 Gang boss ads for android.
hahaha those are so terrible
Hey, that gameplay footage was state of the art in 2003.
Young people who haven't been through the cycle of kickstarter disappointment.
Because that's how Mafia works.
Bored gamers who are burned out and thinks all games sucks now so they are tryharding to find some miracle game where "you can do everything".
Producing a modern MMO, especially one like this, could never be done for $9M. We're in the age of $100M+ games when it comes to games with scope like this. $9M is barely enough to employ a small team of game developers for a year at this point.
If Im allowed to guess I think they were hoping to make enough of a game to gain additional funding from a publisher or investor into the project. A bit like star citizen, it's also a scam but I believe team was simply delusional and actually believed they could deliver on their promise. Just like star citizen.
@@Zluken well considering ammounts of money Star Citizen devs have raised to date it would be truly challenging task to actually NOT deliver the game. I mean Mr. Roberts should be really talented guy to mess this up with SUCH amounts of resources available. Even if we assume it was a scam project at first.
Cant wait to see how it all ends up :)
People make games like this all the time on their own. We’re in the age of people making games in their rooms by themselves.
@@yungzynofficial2055 I agree with you generally but MMORPG's are in a different class. The amount of server backend code you need to write for that is not something modern game engines will provide you with. Not to mention how challenging it is to make it secure.
@@yungzynofficial2055 We are in the age of indie games. And many of them are 2D. Which are incredible. It's stunning what 1 or a few people can make now days. There are soo many indie games I adore. But we are not in the age of a couple people making an entire MMORPG with revolutionary features for under $10M. To create something like this requires $50 to $100M+. It requires massive teams of people from every arena of not only game design and development, but a wide array of IT infrastructure teams. That's not even mentioning advertising cost or the huge expense of hosting and maintaining servers.
I'm not big into mmorpgs so I didn't know the details of the situation but definitely heard the name thrown around over the years as almost a campfire horror story. Thanks for the comprehensive look, you did a great job
This was a scam, and the backers were victims. But, I mean, how can you be naive enough to see a tiny team claiming that they can make an entire MMORPG with revolutionary features and no experience for well under $10M and decide it's smart to put money into it?? It couldn't have been more obvious it was a fraud than if the game was called "Chronicles of the Scam: Take Your Money and Run".
Not even for 10M, the Kickstarter only asked for 900k, people were only sold on an idea and that was enough.
still, all those involved should be castrated.
@@nekonochesire6023 Nerds, all of em
I must admit to finding pleasure in learning of a good scam, jolly well executed, by simply telling people you can magically deliver the thing they all want. Even when it's been done to me. And sometimes I think, "Oh, goodness, it would be so damned easy to start a cult. If I could just be bothered writing a story."
Easy enough, pretty much no one playing videos games actually understand the time and effort that goes into making a video game, let alone an MMO. Like, the people claiming they could make the parkour simulator in hours is a testament to this. So, it's an easy scam.
Interesting to compare this car crash to 'The Long Dark'. A tiny company (Hinterland), using seed funding and kickstarter, made a basic game in 2012 which people loved, and then regularly added more content since. 5.5 million copies now sold, 91% positive reviews on Steam. The lesson must surely be; start small and with limited ambition, and build up slowly.
The Long Dark is my favorite game of all time, have been following the game since 2013 and have seen the game grow up into the wonderful world it has created.
I was just going to say if a team offers you the idea of a game that a AAA studio can't even make with their billions in the bank then you are not going to get better for less from a studio that has never made a game before. However If you offer a humble beginning with reasonable promises that are doable and they get to that target, produce a game people enjoy and have money left over, then they decide they are going to use that money to add stuff and could make it even better with more donations then sure go for it. But i never can understand people giving money to people who promise things that are just too good to true. There is a reason it is too good to be true and that is because it can't be done and therefor will never come to fruition.
I hope the people in this case get some of their money back if not all.
@@Mitchcraft. Ever heard of we happy few? 🤭
Plenty of others
@@Nelson4207 Yeah i have played it, it's not exactly a game out of this world like the ideas of the games i was describing though that are unrealistic
TLD is absolutely amazing and truly a kickstarter success story in my mind
I literary choked with my coffee when I saw the early gorgeous footage of the game and then the alpha version which looked like something from the 80's.
Reminds me of the videos from the last gen console version of cyberpunk.
nothing in the 80's looked that bad, not even Hair Bands
Gorgeous?! It still looked absolutely terrible if you looked closely. It already looked dated, check how the buildings were placed. Its just a texture block
@@PuellaMagiHomuraAkemi at 0:46 the “game” actually looks quite amazing, especially for what they claimed to be footage from the alpha.
@@PuellaMagiHomuraAkemi Also take into account the year they showed that video (which I think was 2012). Now, it's not so special, but back then, man.
Has anyone noticed that one of the game play videos is a recreation of a scene from "The Princess Bride." It even includes the flip off the high beam.
“Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die”
Ha!!!
Me: grinding every day so I can lvl up my character.
Character: Dies of old age.
This is basically why I dont go to the gym every day haha.
The plan was that the characters death would have an impact on your next character. If you Level up your characters strength and he dies, then the "next generation" would gain a certain strength boost. Same goes for stuff like smiting etc.
At least that's what they promised back then
Thats the point
@@alexstach8667 But skills wouldn't be something kids can inherit, so it was a silly plan and ventured into 'stupid magic'.
There's similar system in this horse game I play and I legit gave up on training my horses because they'll just be dead in a real life year
I backed this on Kickstarter way back in 2016. I am still getting emails from Soulbound Studios about the progress of the game (last email arrived a couple of days ago). What I hate is the constant cash grab posts about buying unique items in the game, instead of just focusing on getting out a playable alpha.
Truthfully, I think that the developer is just posting out these so-called updates to make it look like the game is still in production. It also keeps the wolves from the door when somebody questions 'where's my money and where's the game.' He can just say it's still being made, despite the fact that we all know its BS!
You can go to the chronicle of elyria subreddit and see their alt accounts trying hard to make it seem like this game is happening. It hilarious
Hey, it works for Chris Roberts
@@gehinkun I don't know, I've been playing Star Citizen only since last October, and every patch just since then has been full of interesting new mechanics, bug fixes, optimizations, new flight ready space ships/ground vehicles, missions, critical and truly innovative backend tech. I haven't stopped having fun every time I play, even while certainly dealing with bugs periodically. There's a very steep overall learning curve already, so I'm actually glad to have a chance to get a handle on basics while waiting for the next major gameloops to go live. Beyond all that, the game is relentlessly beautiful and obviously crafted with great artistic vision and skill. Seriously, since October I've taken something like 5000 screenshots...
@@gehinkun just to be clear, I played Elite Dangerous for a few years before getting SC. SC scratches literally every itch ED left me with. It's almost uncanny. It comes down to immersion, everything is hands on and seemless. The ships themselves are incredibly well realized, you become attached to your ships. They FEEL like real places, they have quirks, secrets, personality. There's 1000% less meaningless grind, and every profession is interesting, and unique but all help the player progress. Possibly the most underrated feature of SC is just how easy it is to party up with friends, and physically meet up, share missions and rewards, transfer in game cash, fly together as a unit, man each other's turrets (the multicrew gameplay is heavily pushed, and for logical reasons). The combat is incredibly varied, offering seemless experiences from on foot FPS tactical, in space EVA FPS, ship vs ship, which range from light fighters all the way to massive capitol ships, and everything in between. There a lawful missions, and illegal missions. Payout and difficulty (as well as varying objectives) increase with reputation gained through completing missions in a tier system, but you aren't forced to do anything. You can always take the lower tiers of missions regardless of how high your reputation is. You can avoid missions entirely and just trade/mine/explore/race with friends.
There are currently 119 different flight ready ships. If that's a scam, please explain how and in what universe? Lol
These kickstarters, especially with MMO genre, shows how little people realize what it requires to create an MMO, the years it'll take, and the money, along with upkeep for it. Sad to see these giant scams going around, but I doubt they're going anywhere
It's a perennial issue with kickstarter that a lot of people putting down money don't really understand the logistics of what they're backing. Like, 8 millions sounds like a lot, but then you have to realize that, once you factor in salaries, renting office space, and software licencses, that's probably baring enough money to fund a sub-ten dev team for one year.
You could definitely make a banger game with that . . . But it wouldn't be a full 3D MMO.
@@Bustermachine Depending on your definition of a banger game, you could develop a banger game at home, alone. Hollow Knight is one example, but yeah, a full 3D MMO, not gonna happen.
is it even a scam if youre stupid enough to fall for it? like seriously dude, you wanna triple A legendary game and you think youre gonna get that from a kickstarter? cmon man cmon
This was my first thought as well. Wildstar took like 9 years and over 50 million. Hardly shy of two years and 900k.
I might not know what it takes to make a game but in the last 10-15 year I've been extremely disappointed with the lack of new gameplay mechanics and dynamics. I have a ps5 now but I still feel like I'm playing extra polished ps3 games
I remember this when one of my coworkers prompted me to jump on the train while we can. I thought about it and told him I will wait and buy it for whatever price it may be if they ever deliver. This was some years ago and I actually forgot about it. Thanks to this video I remember this title now and I can´t wait to get to work tomorow and ask him whatever happened to his round about 300$. This is sad to all the backers but at some point I cannot do anything else but gringe....sry and my coworker will feel it too hahahaha
Crowd funding is great for projects that are about halfway finished. Most of these projects are from inexperienced developers who will have a steep learning curve. A developer should spend the first couple of years working on it in their spare time. This is how they will learn. Expecting to learn game development in the first three months of your funded project is unrealistic. The inexperienced always under estimate the learning curve. Star Citizen was developed by an industry legend and it still had growing pains.
That snipet of the duel gameplay, is just a computer rendering of the duel in The princess bride.
I knew it was! I was wondering why I'd seen it before...
Yeah I noticed the setting and background of the fight looked familiar... then I saw the the part with the bar and I was like, oh it is literally just princes bride
Lol, add that to the lawsuit for poor counterfeiting and piracy.
@@shinrapresident7010 You use that word a lot. I do not think it means what you think it mean. ;-)
@@landl190372 It's inconceivable that the word inconceivable doesn't mean inconceivable.
I'm just joking around.
;)
"where was the game we were promised and paid for!" That's the magic of this. You actually aren't promised anything. You fund their "attempt" to make a game...whether it happens? That's another story.
That's where KS need to change their approach. There have been quite a few KS scams and people are starting to get wise to them now.
KS is a good idea, but it needs to start giving some assurances to backers that they cannot and will not be scammed by unscrupulous developers. This can only be done by KS as it is their product that is being used to scam people.
@@Tryst46 the fact that this is only being recognised more frequently now is honestly quite disturbing
@@FrenchFry-hi4rn na its been recognized for ages actually
@@themookshit read what I said
this is why i don't fund kickstarters. especially when they aren't even required to deliver perks.
Pretty sure the parkour demo was just that free template thing
the last "Pre-Alpha Footage" had me dead
why is no one talking about that lmao
16:05 Coming along great!
Omfg 💩
this game gets worse with each time passing by
@@alrahfree5797
he's trolling the those who invested
to make himself feel less guilty about the grift
When you think about it, there's no real surprise that these Indie kickstarters often fail. We often seen Triple A titles struggle to live up to expectations. The baseline is that a lot of videogame companies lack competent project management. This is why we often see poor quality, missed deadlines, etc. Most of these indie developers have no experience in management (let alone project management) let alone business finance and accounting. So it's really no shock that you see so many run over budget, waste money, miss deadlines and ultimately be unable to deliver their products. Most gamers can come up with an amazing concept for a game. It takes not just good programmers, but also great management (technical, project, general and financial) to actually make a project into reality. I'd never invest in one of these unless I could see the education and work experience backgrounds of the team involved.
well said
Most pertinent comment here. Respect.
It's no real surprise that giving unknown people with no track record, on the internet, your money, for unaccountable, opaque, and ambiguous projects fail; and it has almost nothing to do with the troubles of AAA developers. Those that have good intentions are gambling with your money on their ability to figure out what they are doing in the process of spending the money and the rest are con artists.
@@Dadecorban agreed. My point is that if Triple A companies, with the high publicity, resources and experience struggle, then it would take a borderline miracle for an unknown, small team to pull off something even more complex and in-depth.
Exactly, well and , precisely put.
It’s ….astonishingly stupid to think that something like this could suceed. All these. Games that are like “we’re gonna have a mmo galaxy to explore in real time” yeah okay bro , can’t even hire more than one fucking engineer for 8 months? And like the video creator said, just calculate salaries and rent in a area where they studio is based, multiply that by number of mos the shitheads have been “raising money” and not doing shit else, except lying to themselves and everyone else, and there you go. You’ve got a actual figure to see , okay, based on this they have…$0 left to work with.
And my question then is like what if one of these games did release? How do they know it’s gonna make money even AFTER? If everyone who really wanted to play it has already paid , BEFORE RELEASE!? Then wtf! Doesn’t seem like near ANY of this is a good business model and, I’d advise everyone reading this to basically never invest in a kickstarter or some other shit for a video game , because no matter what hook they have to draw you in, it seems that they can just scam with seeming impunity , like, how
The fuck
Was the court case dropped. ?
I really would appreciate knowing if you can respond back cause I don’t see how this is okay, shit, maybe I’ll try crowdfunding a game, because it seems to be a specific area immune to legal retribution or anything. What’s up with that too??
…the fucck, man…
Phew that was a lot. Thanks if you got this far. 🙏
I am a Unity game developer
I can confirm that the footages and the videos used by this company as a demo of their game are just demos of assets from the Unity asset store, I counted about 10-20 of them, each one costs about 100$-300$, soo basically all these videos cost less than 5K$
Me too and saw that was sad af they dint even triying is like buy 100$ pencils for a made a painting and only show photos of the pencils for your commissioners
It is impossible for non repeat quest and also character can age and die. It is impossible to create. If they donate to me i would create the best strategy game online never create before. It absolutely king ship and very fun to play. Maybe 3 to 5 years from now i may create it by my own funds. Demo doesn't need 100 to 500$ you can create it at blender and render it for show and it is very easy to create if you have some skill.
There was that one clip (not sure if it's claimed to have been from the "game") that legit just looked like someone tried to make a Princess Bride game.
I've only ever backed one game. And that game was Kingdom Come: Deliverance. I strongly recommend to give that game a play through. The game turned out quite good IMO. Had a rough launch but the developers at Warhorse Studios did their very best to make the game enjoyable and they did an amazing job at that.
that game is incredible.
And is very cheap on steam sales, a gem for what you paid for
Kingdom Come is a wonderful game and proof that crowdfunding can be a force for good.
Same here! My one and only donation on that place, for a tenner.
Had no idea that was crowd funded. It didn't turn out to be my cup of tea, BUT I can surely appreciate that the game had many, many excellent qualities. I could tell it was a game many folks would adore and sink their teeth into!
Back in 2016 someone showed me this game and told me I should pre-order with them since they had just backed it for like $60 or so. I took a good hard look at the game back then and I had to point out how different the graphics were from one object or video to the next. I told him it looked like a bunch of tech demo's and that I had a feeling maybe the whole thing was a scam. Fast forward 6 years and yeah... I still say the same thing lol Also, an important figure to have in mind when you think you are going to back a new game, original World of Warcraft cost $63,000,000 to develop just the base game. There's no way 900k or even 9m was ever going to be enough to build that kind of game...
I have a feeling they were hoping to just make it to something vaguely publishable and then milk everyone for micro-transactions to buy lands, pets, and probably everything else.
WoW was released in 2004 -- 18 years ago. The number of 3d game engines and platforms is now numerous and has evolved immensely. We have the cloud now. $1m would never be enough, but $10m with a competent leader that understood software development and knew what they were doing easily could have come up with some kind of deliverable. Yes, way too much promised, but they had the money to get there. It came down to failed leadership.
@@keyser456 If the payment of each coder is about 150k a year that 1m is enough only for 6 devs. No artists included. And so you can see who you can offer. Sure you can offer many more people through outsource, but you should know who you are working with. All in all I guess you can make something worthy for 10m, but it won't be a super gigantic game. I think that Star Citizen is quite the best development process you can find when it comes to gigantic crowd founded projects. After all the best coders are working for the best studios that are having best practices for delivering finished games. If it was possible to create something outstanding in a fair time - they would do it. Still Minecraft was bought for 5 trillion dollars and underneath it is a quiet simple game at some point made by a single person. But later being redone in all the possible ways. What we can understand from this contrast is that modern PC games are already expansive. And there is never enough money to make them. But when you are spending your own money - you make sure that you are not wasting them. Crowd money is no one's money. USSR has shown this problem really well.
@@dadlord689 I can't disagree with anything you said. It's sad to watch vaporware being created and "maintained" in front of your face. I've worked on failed projects and this one stinks of leadership failure and a lack of understanding of how projects like this fail. It's not a lack of money that is sinking this one.
Let's be real, if they put the 8 mil to good use and provide proper content and showcases, they would have kept growing in the amount received and probably reached the point where they had enough money for their ambition. Instead they chose, as you said, to put out tech demos. It does not even matter anymore if they had money for the full project, what matters is that they did not deliver for the 8 mil, that's what tanked confidence in the project. People backing up projects expect others to do so as well, they don't expect the game to be made with the money that have been gathered until them, but future backings as well, that's why your friend was so keen on recommending you to prepurchase. More funds would have come, if only they did something with the first batch of money.
Excellent video about a tragic moment in crowdfunding history. Well done!
If I may give a tiny bit of constructive criticism, the background music was a TAD too loud at times during the video. A good rule of thumb I use is to keep the music under -18 to -22 decibels during voiceover moments. Interludes/transitions can get louder, obviously. Wish you the best in the future!
If I may give a tiny bit of constructive criticism, less streaming and more videos, please :)
Thanks 👍 same to you
@Ben Anantavara Yes and I seen a few and actualy founded one.
After that i never give money to projects again.
Audio is a very tricky thing to get right explicitly due to how different a mix can sound on different devices. I know for a fact, whenever I finish a song I don't go and play it without headphones, off my phone, and out in my car before i finalize it lol.
Tragic? What's tragic about some idiots giving their money away at a any scam artist that claims to have struck gold. The tale is as old as time, yet people never seem to learn.
Here's the thing: people back Kickstarters treating it like an online store. They think they're ordering a product or making a pre-order, when the reality is that you're basically investing in someone's business idea. When you back a project, you need to do that in the full understanding that the product your backing may be delayed, may not be the thing you were promised, or might not turn up at all.
Sometimes things just go wrong and it's no-one's fault. Sometimes the project owner just hasn't done their research and gets in way over their head... and yeah, sometimes it's just a straight up scam.
I don't think this was an intentional scam. I think this was a case of a group of people deciding to make a game with no real idea of what they were doing, then when things inevitably went pear-shaped, they thought they could keep their game alive if they just got more money, then things spiralled.
Yeah, they absolutely should have been more honest, and pulled the plug a lot earlier... but being shit at your job isn't illegal. Unless it can be proven that this was a deliberate attempt to defraud, the lawsuit isn't going anywhere.
Yep. Its no different than buying shares in a start up company. Theres zero guarantee that your investment will show returns.
Granted, this could well have been a scam...but thats the chance you take when you send money to such a project. Very little to be done about it unless someone can produce evidence that these guys never used the money for the games development and never intended to
I don't know about the US - but here in Germany, while being shit at your job is not illegal, still asking for funds and acting like everythings fine after you know that you can't deliver is indeed fraudulent behaviour. (There is actually an arrest warrant requested against a German Role Playing publisher at the moment who refuses to give all the financial information about his business to the prosecutors office. They funded projects via Kickstarter year after year without completely fulfilling the former ones. We have to see how it goes further, but it can constitute fraud if you continue to collect money)
I was gonna say this is what happens when you don't teach your kids basic economics. But then I realised, I wasn't taught anything about economics, I'm just not a consoomer idiot.
It might not have started as a scam. But they would have quickly realized it wasn't even close to possible and kept taking money, turning it into a scam.
First sentence and i know where are you going here.. stop
Fraud behavior we talking about here, don't be confused with shop definition. It's an agreement still, and any violation should have usual repercussions.
If an earth shattering mmo could be built for just $9m.. let alone $900k.. it would already exist. Not sure who was dreaming, the dev, the crowd funders, or both.. but they were certainly dreaming.
Yes I was thinking the same thing. How could the game gain such popularity without a big dose of reality washing back on it during the coverage saying that it's impossible to build an MMO for 900K dollars, and if they had $10 million+ lined up for a real effort why do they need the crowdfunding? Was there any sort of explanation for that on the kickstarter page?
This was recommended to me and I ended up watching the whole thing. Thank you good sir
Glad you enjoyed and shout out to that TH-cam algorithm putting in work
Same here, I got intrigued :)
why the emphasis of watching the whole thing? It's only 17 minutes.
@@thescruffinator8830 what a comment
"Dude what should we name our startup?"
"Improbable."
"Yeah, that instills such confidence!"
Yes but the mathematical 'Law of Very Large Donations with Nothing To Show For It' states that even highly improbable lawsuits become practically inevitable with enough angry donors...
Kickstarter may begin implementing genre based checkpoints in the near future; whether game, movie, album, or art, you'd need to meet certain brief critera and release testable progress in order to unlock new funding opportunities. Right until the finish line.
This is the best idea for kickstarter, and would make pre-ordering and investing in these companies alot less of a hassle.
News Flash to any would-be Kickstarter game developers. If your backers can afford $5K-$10K donations by clicking a button, they can afford lawyers, too.
Scams will go to crowd funding sources that won't, and only cartels of large corporations or government intention generally implement across the board industry standards. Crowd funding material projects is a hoping game. Period.
@@1.blazeIT and alot less of a risk
Some Gaming Projects on Kickstarter now have actual demos which show they are really working on it and do indeed have a product which is good.
Reminds me of the game 7 Days to Die which to my knowledge is STILL in the alpha stages despite being released almost 10 years ago which ended up being Minecraft in HD, it was just survival and building for several years with no real story or quest system. The difference being The Fun Pimps actually GAVE us something instead of just promising something even if it was fairly basic and ended up being developed as time went on. I think the moral here is it's great to have an ambitious idea but game dev companies need to be realistic with their backers and players as well as themselves, I for one would rather a company deliver i rudimentary version of the game and take the time to work towards the finished product than have a team promise a never before seen kind of game one day 1 only to deliver a POS or nothing at all. Devs, please consider what your team is capable of before promising a game, and the backers and players need to be patient with developers as some dev teams could be as few as 10 people or even just 1, not all dev teams have the capital to hire 50 people each for graphics,programming, storyboards and more. Even if we want more the developers can only give us what they're capable of giving
I was expecting a joke because of the date. Instead I got a documentary.
Oh wait... CoE is the joke!
Its second of april in his country
It was supposed to release on the first , but it took 12 hours straight to edit so it released just after midnight
damn, you beat me to it haha
Gottem
Nah, the joke is the people who backed this. All the red flags where there and they chose to throw their money away.
I feel really bad for the employees of this studio. I empathize. I worked for a small mobile game indie-studio that was working on a passion project and it wasn't until after I was laid off that I learned it was basically running on fumes. Can't tell you how devastating it was going into work that day, ready to work and have fun, only to be told ten minutes later to pack my stuff because there wasn't any money to pay me with left. At the end of the day though, this game just wasn't realistic -- the sheer size and complexity. They bit off more than they could chew.
DreamWorld
what kind of game was it supposed to me? curious
If this is your first video dong a small documentary on something this big you did an amazing job. so glad this got brought up in my suggestions.
Thanks so much !
Yeah this guy is good, new sub here as well.
This is an incredible video! Straight up I don’t know if this game ever existed but if it did I’d bet money it wouldn’t have been nearly as compelling as the story you just told. Well done
As some1 working in the industry, I feel like this was a possible real game, HOWEVER, the scope of the game is simply crazy, what they wanted to do, would cost way more than $100m, it is an indie studio attempting to make a AAA game, not to mention an RPG, not to mention any RPG, but an MMO with crazy humongous feautures!?!? There is no way that this game could've been completed. The managers likely knew this too, the literal promised dates are wayyyy too fast for an indie studio making such a huge game. The producers and directors likely do not know how to manage at all, perhaps the ceo only wanted to be in control despite being a bad leader, and the people they hired would've likely not been that great seeing how this went. Perhaps they weren't fired due to the closest being too soft and being friends?
It seemed like he assumed that a bigger company / higher level engineers would buy them up and bring the game to the level they were hoping. A dangerous assumption, clearly
Over sell and under deliver.
Kira is on his Stephen Spielberg production I see
Agreed awesome job putting this together.
@Lasse k Not as much money though...
@@Warriorking.1963 that may be so, and yet it is infinitely more valuable because we can enjoy this video
So is Jsc
You need to get out more!
I was scammed on this, figured it out moderately early on and stopped paying attention. I've really appreciated the videos you've been making on this because they've helped me understand what happened and how just absurdly disingenuous this whole thing has been - if not from the start then very early on. It's a helpful reminder that though there are far fewer bad people than good, some bad people exist, and they're absolutely looking to take advantage of you. Lies are only one of their tools. Thanks again.
how much did you pledge?
Same here, I backed for $450
The problem with the crowd founding campaigns, no matter if for games or hardware or any other project is that people are asking for money to work on an idea prior to verifying whether this concept is even realizable and they are rarely held accountable in case it turns out it isn't. In the normal business world, if you ask for money, you must convince investors and investors will insist on a proof of concept and they will surely hold you accountable in case of a total failure.
E.g. a lot of crowd founding campaigns come up with an idea that sounds great but the reason why nobody has ever done that is not that nobody has ever thought of it but that it is physically impossible, which some people had to find out the hard way, yet their failure never went public, so people don't know that this concept has been tried hundreds of times already and has failed every single time.
When you imagine the game of your dreams, you may have an idea what the game should look like, but when you start working on it, you may realize, that your game requires a minimum of 128 GB RAM to run as planned. That isn't reasonable. The majority of computers simply don't have that much RAM and people won't buy that much RAM just to play your game. So you need to downscale it to something more reasonable, like 8 GB of RAM. However, then you game cannot look and function the way you imagined it. It won't be the game you've promised as the game you've promised cannot be done with today's hardware and that's why such a game does not exist and not because existing game designers are not creative enough to come up with such a genius game idea.
In other case the game could have been made, sure, but not with such a tiny team, not in such a short time span, and not with such a ridiculous little budget. If you are realistic, you need a team of 50+ people, the game will take 8 years to be done and it will cost many, many millions of dollars - which means the game will never pay off, as you cannot ever sell enough copies or raise the price high enough to ever get that money back. Again, that's the reason why the big game studies have not made such a game yet and not the fact that they are stupid or unwilling to make such a game but the fact that they have to make profit from what they are doing.
I don't think most failed crowd foundings had malicious intend, I think that those people really believed in their idea/product but they didn't really invest enough time upfront to check if anything of that is really doable. Quite often there is not even the shadow of a prototype in sight or a realistic proof of concept on paper. There aren't even calculations or a business plan, there is just an idea and some people are naive enough to believe that "When you can think it, you can build it", yet that isn't the case. You can think of Perpetual Motion Machines but you cannot build them.
Many here are insulted as gamers, but I am insulted as a professional software developer. This is probably the most egregious example of several cons. Maybe at some point the team of 12 thought they could deliver, but from a very early stage, likely before they made the Kickstarter campaign, they knew it was impossible. The "pre-alpha" footage were obviously just renders. Not just renders, but renders with CGI superior to most movies. They poured a lot of time into those, and appeared to be trying to find game developers who could make that into reality. I've met developers who were contracted by ordinary Joe's who wanted them to make smartphones out of off-the-shell boards and parts, while hearing their coworkers getting yelled at with racial slurs. The developers bought a Belview mansion and hoped that would entice developers to do the impossible. But they couldn't, so they lived in it and partied while passing themselves off as professionals. They could have minimized the damage, but they thought if they dissappeared without giving people what they paid for, they could get away with it. What a scam by idiots. These people sicken me because it makes it near impossible for REAL indie developers to get off the ground
Work hard enough and if your products good it will speak for itself don't be worrying about what others are doing throwing blame around what they did isn't going to affect you what will affect you is how good your work is
People need to use their heads more when giving away their money.
@@HYSTERIA-ee2re I can't say you're entirely wrong, but economically assumes people are reasonable. Plus for all most donors knew, the pre-alpha footage WAS real. They just didn't go about fact-checking. That said, they should before giving away money
Ok
"sickening"? really? Just one of many mismanaged projects in IT. And for the backers... You wanna preorder games? fool me once. You wanna fund projects from companies without reputation? fool me twice. You wanna "invest" in a software startup? Fool me... you get the idea.
Moral of the story: don’t spend 10 thousand dollars on a game that haven’t even come out yet. People might argue that the trailers looked really promising so they spent money for donations but honestly that’s not even true, most of the trailers were literally just a character walking around doing absolutely nothing. Most of the features of the game that people payed for were not even shown in the trailers or even mentioned. This game was a flat out scam and the fact that the developers couldn’t even make a decent looking game with 8 million in donations is baffling. (I do however feel very bad for the victims of this scam hoping for a good game).
dont spend 10 thousand dollars on a video game period lol
Tell that to the people of star citizen 😬
People have no respect for the value of their own money lol.
Yep and they ain't getting their money back, it's been fucking spent lol 💸
Either people that spends 10k to this are just filthy rich or just stupid. I guess 50 / 50
Do they call it Soulbound Studios because of Mr. Walsh's Soulpatch 🤔
I wish
Like your videos dude
or because you fund them for the faith
That's not a soulpatch, that's a goatee. Soulpatches are small patches of hair right below the bottom lip.
It's like the land of the lotus eaters. Pay in and your souls is theirs and they keep asking for more but only ever deliver flashy things with no substance
Even if it wasn't a scam, the devs should have known not to promise more than they could deliver.
Can't help noticing the clip shows the sword fight scene from The Princess Bride.
Also watch the horse front legs, it's like a human running motion capture. :D
I think that was the whole point, to show that all those sorts of interactions were possible in their game. Dodging, and fighting in various terrain, as the princess bride fight showed. In hindsight it points to a darker motive behind using that scene, but at the time I'm sure the fans were incredibly excited that such actions were possible.
It was one of their big shows for how well developed the gae was, what you could do fighting wise, character animations, etc
This isn't unusual in proof of concept videos. Meant so the viewer had an easy basis for comparison. Problem being in this case it was almost definitely hand done animations, with no kind of gameplay/combat engine behind it.
@@chrisblake4198 That's what I think - they've just used the Princess Bride scene as a basis for a pre-rendered animation. It looks cool, but that is time wasted that should have gone into the actual game. In fact, I'd say they've blown a lot of money just making fancy animations disconnected from any game engine!
This was so well made man, kind of gave me Internet historian vibes. Would love to see more like this in the future!
Thanks man, appreciate that
I laughed when he said less than a 20 man team and 18 months
Yup. I looked at those faces and just thought "You guys definitely had a really shit time of your lives... I'm so sorry." When people are making decisions who have no business making them, good workers are made to squander their time on bad plans. The inevitable story is one of tech debt, dead-ends, changes of technology and direction, re-builds, new hires with new ways of doing things. And that is development quicksand.
Renegade Line, it was on kickstarter, project funded fully, they developed it a bit, played like a closed alpha. It was like Battlefield Heroes, hence why I liked it.
a while later, the devs said they're pausing development as it was a passion project or something, don't remember the details exactly, and then they disappeared and it's been years since we heard a peep.
The Kickstarter I don't regret paying was the for the game UBOAT, I love that game, some of the best indie devs out there.
OH MY GOD THE GRAPHICS IN THE VIDEO THEY FINALLY RELEASED AFTER A BIG SILENCE.. LMFAO
Imagine waiting 5 year for that, and you get a crappier third person runescape
@@jean-baptistecarrere-gee9157 almost felt like it waiting for d2 remaster! Finally our prayers are answered though. Lol
I could literally make what they showed in a couple of days in Unreal Editor... except it would look way, way better XD
@@JF.90 Like lmao it looks like fucking oldschool runescape from 2001, how can you create something looking so fucking basic and shitty looking it runs on java xD
@@jean-baptistecarrere-gee9157 I didnt think it is possible, I was proven wrong
"Alright guys, this is the day! Five years and 8 million dollars, and we're going to show you what we've got so far. Ready? Here it is: 16:04!"
“is this an out of season april fools joke?”
@@shuya8904 lol good times, good times.
.....You made me spit grape juice on my onesie...
... ... ... Ok, I realize that sentence SOUNDS weird, but I have a horrendous cold and I'm coping by binging YT vids....I DO WHAT I WANT!!!
Lol.
I love how they created a game which could be easily made with 2 people moderately familiar with game dev and 5-20k US dollars and 1-2 months of development. That's insane.
Not even though, it looks like a student's attempt at making a game in their first few months of learning code.
Looks like the sims game with mods hahaha
he probably paid some dude on upwork or freelancer 10k usd to make some demos lol
If itvwere made first time by someone thats actually pretty good
That's just it, though; You can't say that they created a game which could easily be made by 2 people because - as far as anyone can tell - they never actually created a game. All we really know that they created was a whole lot of PR and professional-looking video, art and screenshots and, just maybe, an incredibly brief and poor quality interactive demo. That's not actually a game.
I've only recently found - and subscribed - to your channel. Your documentaries on the history of games being developed are extremely well made and edited. They are very fascinating since you clearly do a lot of research to incorporate into your videos. I think you should have millions of subscribers.
let me start by saying I have never posted on a TH-cam video or heard of this game, I randomly came upon this watching something else. You have skills man, investigative journalism quality and you did your homework rather than just rant. Congrats and good luck in whatever you focus on you have my sub.
Thanks bud , I appreciate that
I can only appreciate the reenactment between Inigo Montoya and Westley at 9:18
I'm glad someone else noticed that too. XD
"You killed my father. Prepare to die."
Yeah I loved that.
It feels like most of the comment section forgets that they didn't even ask for 8 million. They asked for 900k. _They thought they could build one of the most ambitious MMORPG ideas with just 900k $_ when even experienced game studios with much less ambitious plans pretty much never go below 100 million for a proper MMO 😂
Also, I'm sorry but I'm gonna be that person: people THINK they know what they want, but the reality is, they don't. There is a lot of stuff that always sounds so cool in concept, but when actually playing it, no one actually wants that. Imagine logging on everyday to only ever toll away on the fields for someone else, to have to ask another player for permission to even build a house or get married or go exploring beyond the single plot of land you spawned on. That's what feudalism is, sorry.
Imagine dedicating years of your life to your account and then your character just dies and everything you worked for vanishes.
Imagine managing to build a small kingdom and then one of the 10k backers comes in with his giant bought pre-made kingdom and destroys everything you built up. And so on.
There's a reason we don't see these systems in other, working MMOs - because they are just a bad idea in the first place.
exactly I was thinking it would be a garbage game even if it did live up to its promises. It's literally a real life simulator at that point might as well just go outside and do it in person
you have historically incomplete and incorrect view on feudalism...
@@kissieljp that literally is the definition of feudalism
It could probably be made as an exiting and good game, but not as an mmorg.
I dont know seems like a lot of rp players would enjoy, well except the pay to win aspect
This was a great video bro. I know it was a lot of work and I damn sure appreciate it! 👍🏻👍🏻✌🏼
The first mistake was settling his company his Seattle. I don't think he had intentions to scam, but definitely miscalculated how much everything would actually cost.
yea sounds like they never even thought about budgeting.
Yours is an excellent comment that will sadly be blown off by most people. In the workers’ defense, most other cities that are not west or east coast suck to live in.
I believe that they wanted to attract the world best developers but missed on important point...the pay for those world best developer lol. Probably bad management budgeting and planning is the main reason for this flop. Tbh I have seen indie devs do way better job with their extremely limited funds it's painful to think they struggle so much when they have so much to offer. Anyway, people are too gullible they want games that will revolutionize everything and more than ambitious the truth is all that is feasible but the cost amount of planning and human capital that must come with it is no joke.
yeah that's why thought exactly
Yea? What are you gonna hire tier 1 developers in Wenatchee? Companies eat those costs because that’s where the developers and skilled workers are and the wages are higher and information and technical exchange makes it worth it. It’s why Amazon still put a campus in New York despite having its tax benefits taken from it.
I can’t believe people fell for this.
-That few people on a team
-Such a small amount of funding
-that short amount of time
-making claims as wild as they promised; things not even MMOs with hundreds of millions of dollars and teams quadruple the size could pull off
It’s insane people believed this. I feel bad for them.
That what you say about Star Citizen idiots ? 😄
Why feel bad for the dumb people that believe scams like this? I mean, you pointed out a lot of red flags; why couldn't they see it?
I don't feel bad for them at all. But, that's just me. To each their own, friend.
Govt takes much more and delivers nothing, still not in jail
Smart men will always find a way to exploit stupid men, as the saying goes
@@davidjones5059 That's simply not true.
0:55 "Where did it all go wrong?"
"Kickstarter."
Video fin.
Comment stealing isn't good for karma. You might trip on thin air while carrying your favorite meal.
There's been a lot of successful kickstarter games tho. One that comes to mind is squad
@@mono_si Comments have copyright now mate?
@@lok4890 no
@@mono_si then quit the bullshit about stealing comments.
Just watched this video for the first time after following Kira for the past year or so, including Kingdoms of Deleria vids. It is excellent. Explained the whole sad drama so clearly.
Holy crap when the game goes from a kinda amateur attempt at photo-realistic fantasty textures to that flat shaded Nintendo wii looking stuff. Just amazing.
Anyone else remember when the first time you heard about a game was when you saw it available for sale? All the press hype these days has allowed lazy devs to promise far more than they can deliver. Then along comes crowdfunding and boom, vaporware.
My favorite game (teardown) i furst heard about on a youtube vid when it whas stil in development i tink most poepie now heer about a game from youtube
Yes I do!!!! And the quality of the game was also at the highest they were able to achieve!!!! Now most developers just string us along for years!!!!! With tiny DLC's and micro transactions... Gta5 for a perfect example!!!! Makes me sick.
@@spacecthulhu399 bro the spelling...
@@memesarentfunny2248 I now have a serious case of eye cancer due to the two posts by cthulhu (no surprise there ;-)) and Suxix (multiple exclamation marks…)
@ just trying to get my point across!!!!!
The 'city' shown in the trailer can also be put together in a matter of hours XD
anyone with 3dsmax and substance could put something like that in ue4 in a day, if you use pre made assets your talking like an hour not including the time it takes to set up the terrain materials and shaders etc. essentially the alpha footage they showed of the city was an environment with a basic sculpt of what looked like a ue4 environment with very basic models and textures xD
In unreal engine I can RNG that city in 10 mins using premade instances
UE ? Minutes, and even better looking
@@thirstyserpent1079 I've personally made better over a weekend back in college using UE4. You could easily tell it was made with UE4, and my guess they abandoned using it when they realized they would ask for a portion of the millions they made; money they probably already spent.
@@paulghignon4092 There are free asset packs on the market place right now with similar quality for the building and prop packs and tutorials for beginners that would let them throw something together in a week at most. Millions of dollars and numerous devs over the course of years should necessitate something far ore impressive xD
If an AAA-sized game is funded on kickstarter and it sounds too good to be true, it's too good to be true.
i cant stop thinking that the fighting scene on the hill is literally the duel from the princess bride
Because it literally is.
omg i just looked it up on youtube it is WTF
My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father...
@@joemeatballs3694 more like "you killed my wallet...prepare your lawyers"
They have the flips and everything
When a game promises you "freedom to actually do literally anything" and it's not dwarf fortress or something like that: they're not going to deliver the product as advertised
Well it's something like "dwarf fortress" as it's a video game, so your point is a bit mute.
@@Glaswalker1001 dwarf fortress is an incredibly specific kind of game. You have to intentionally ignore that fact to think that I meant "dwarf fortress or any fucking game ever"
@@Trigger0x10c well, in your opinion, what defines dwarf fortress as game or specific genre?
@@Glaswalker1001 It's incredibly hard to define past "Roguelike RPG simulation building and management strategy game" ad it's very deep and complex. The Adventure mode is essentially an rpg open world version of "rogue" or "nethack" which technically makes it a roguelike game. It's a very complex game inspired by a very complex game.
Another good game, which is smaller, but still gives the players a lot of options is space station 13 which is an online rpg game with a limb system kinda like in dwarf fortress, tons of tools and even a chemistry system.
I think rpg simulator is the thing you want to target if you want to make a "you're free to do whatever the fuck" game. And then you build upon that foundation to make it into a game you want it to be, be it an online mayhem with space clowns and cancermancers or a booze driven fortress building game.
@@Trigger0x10c so all you are saying is that you can't see how a game with very limited graphics could be realized within another engine with better ones.
Because everything you stated is just a style limitation as far as I can see. And even dwarf fortress didn't have the depth and complexity it now has back when it was invisioned, did it?
Remember when games were released finished that's gonna be what I tell my grand kids 😂
exactly. "alpha releases" and "beta releases" are just ways to release a game and when people find bugs (because the devs are too lazy to work them out themselves) they can just say "bUt tHe GaMe Is iN BeTa"
I'm 38 and I barely remember those times...
@@vashtalelq I am a macro organism, I remember playing Pokemon on the Gameboy
Indeed and with no need for 25 patches and very few bugs. Now there are companies like Paradox that basically sell an alpha for full retail price and sells you dlc for 10 years for that alpha.
It’s a myth. You still got a buggy mess or a much simpler thing that still had issues. It’s just we learned to live with it.
F for all the people who actually pledged 10 thousand dollars, to become Queen or King in a scam game.
Thats just sad.
What fucking dopes.
Star citizen is still taking thousands from individuals long after that kickstarter finished. There's some loyalty program when you've spent over $27000 and there are members,
@@rwentfordable At least you can play Star Citizen and it does get updates. Sure progress is slow but you can't say they haven't been delivering. But yeah, not to big of a fan of how they are making their money, but at least they aren't selling their souls for it.
They have only themselves to blame.
One can only hope that those 4 who pledged 10k were absolutely fucking loaded in the first place and 10k was a drop in the ocean for them.