Please, Please, Please, Keep that sander flat. Angling your sander like that will eat into the wood and expose more end grain in a give area causing your counter to be more blotchy. It also makes your surface more uneven. If you feel the need to angle your sander to remove a deeper scratch you need to move to a lower grit paper.
I wanted to see if anyone else saw that He’s basically adding way more scratches by angling it than the belt sander And those scratches are swirled and even more noticeable
Usually stop at 150-grit (or 180 at the most) when staining. With a rough surface like that, I would have used 60- to 100- to 150-grit for sanding. When putting a pre-stain conditioner on before staining, the stain will be a lot lighter than it otherwise would be, so you may want to choose a darker stain in that case. Also, gel stain is a good choice, and you can try not wiping it off as thoroughly if you want it to be darker. The more you leave on, the longer it will take to dry. When using shellac underneath another finish, you should always use dewaxed shellac. If it does not say "wax free" or "dewaxed", then it still has wax in it. Zinsser SealCoat is 100% dewaxed shellac, but most big box stores do not carry it (you can usually order it through the big box stores). I have been able to find it in stock at Ace / True Value hardware stores. You can also mix it yourself by getting dewaxed shellac flakes and mixing it with 95% or higher purity ethanol (ethyl alcohol). You have to be careful with the denatured alcohol that you find in stores since a lot of it is well under 95% alcohol.
Dude.. I used to hate sanding and watching this video reminded me of the hours I spent sanding with a random orbit sander. Last summer I had to do a big project and bought a rotex 90/ct 15... now I love sanding. Treat yourself brother.
Well just goes to show I'm different.. I like the dings and darker spots, it gives the piece character.. and even tho nothing is perfect, it is still beautiful 😊😁
These pre-made butcher blocks are already pretty smooth. Hand sand with the grain and only use a fine or ultra fine sand paper or sanding block. Treat it with pre-stain and then stain. Make sure the prestain and the stain are either both water-based or both oil-based. If you decide to sand in between finishes, make sure to also use something that's ultra fine like 400 grit. Also do it within 24 hours of taking the wrapping off.
For the surface preparation, you should work through the grits, not just jump from 120 to 220. The idea is you're making the scratches smaller and smaller, but that big a jump you'd need to spend considerably more time to work through the scratches. And keep the sander flat, rather than digging in on the "areas that need it", as that'll end up putting divots in it (and/or wear out your sander pad). I've always found butcher block panels hard to stain too - while normally you might have 5-8 different boards in a panel, there can be a hundred different individual trees in those, and that can cause all different absorption rates with different grain patterns (flat/rift/quartersawn)
Thanks Paul! I did go to a lower grit in the second attempt and forgot to mention that I stopped digging my sander in for the last one after hearing back from people. Good to know that butcher block in general is hard to stain!
@@makeorbreakshop Sorry, I meant that chucking in a 150 or 180 grit between 120 and 220 will save you a *heap* of time. If you're making a habit of large flat surfaces, it may be worth investing in a 6" ROS too - 40% more surface area on the disc adds up quick! A stainable wood filler (like Timbermate), thinned down to be a pore/grain filler may also give good results for evening out the different boards, though I'm potentially talking out my backside on that one - I've used it to even out butcher board, but not even out AND stain it at the same time!
@@TheWoodKnight Oh gottcha! Yeh, I should have gone to 150/180. GOod call on the wood filler I was wondering if that would be something I could try. Thanks for the info!
This is much easier to see with a graphic but I'll try and explain without one. Imagine you have a surface with a variable finish (different scratch sizes). Some of the scratches are 300 units deep and some are 200, 150, 100...etc. If you start with a fine grit (50) you are just knocking off the tops of the deeper scratches. It may feel smooth to touch but you are only feeling the top. There is still a variety of deep gouges and the gouges collect more stain. You have to go through the progression of grit sizes to get the entire surface to the same finish.
I have been a painter for over 30 yrs , the best stain to use for a butcher block is FOOD COLORING ! I have done many kitchen islands and have used this method for many years .
Watch Steve Ramsey video on stain and finishes. Also always pre stain and always have scrap would to text on before always start at 80 grits and for staining always always stop at 220 grits
ZAR stain is a surface stain from Ben Moore, I use that for finished pine and maple. Also, I wipe denatured alcohol with some water on the wood before staining.
I would try not sanding to such a high grit sandpaper. Stop at 150. Maybe 180. Higher the grit. The more you close the grain. Stain doesn’t penetrate as easily. Just a suggestion
It’s only right that I subscribe this is exactly what I needed to do on the exact same piece. What are the odds great video and way to keep my attention because that hard 😖
Good tips, Brandon! Hate you have to go through all of that to find it out, but it seems that's how it goes sometimes. I've done the same thing with other projects.
Hey thanks for this video! Very helpful… I’m get ready to stain a maple butcher block segment for my kitchen counter. Don’t like the yellow so I will take your good advice and try it your way. Thank you so much!
My opinion is that these Butcher blocks are usually pretty cheap for a reason: it takes huge amounts of labor to make it a nice finish. I used hardwood reflections with their own gel stain and it was a pure disaster. Looks so nice in the pictures and the application video made it seem so easy, IT"S NOT. They make money off people thinking it's going to be easy.
Understanding Wood Finishing By Bob Flexner. Get the newest version. Lots of good, solid information from an expert in the field. My first book when I started in the business. Saved lots of time. I have all my guys study the book when they start in my department. We repair furniture for a living.
What is the best way to stain butcher block? None, because in my opinion, the main quality of butcher block which is the contrast between the different strips/species of wood should be maintained. If yall need an alternative to staining, give Danish Oil a shot. Some even have stains in it like Dark Walnut, so it'll pop the contrast a bit before drying darker.
Super helpful video thanks! Toying with a free kitchen island butcher block on wheels I came across and trying to stain and turn into a work bench of sorts... eh- in any case- Does the pre-stain step help with the tacky shenanigans I am dealing now from my stain? Clearly my rookie skills has missed a step it seems- start over and pre-stain to gel?
Awesome video thanks! I am struggling with my birch butcher block, omg what a nightmare, i am having to remove all the poly and stain right now. I am worried about making the same mistake. The poly looked horrible, i think we used a minwax Oil based poly, on top of my Kona Gel stain .. .I think we did the same thing with the stain i didnt let it sit long enough and wiped to much off. it looked nice in the begging but the next day it was faded quit a bit. But it wasn't that bad., WE covered it with some poly and it was horrible looking made it look faded even more??? no idea why? I put down a the butcher block oil on the butcher block before staining not a oil based pre stain. I have no idea but i am looking for idea on what to cover my stain with, i do NOT LIKE POLY at all. It was so plastic looking and showed so much flaws along with looking cloudy. .
Is there a reason you are using regular wood stain instead of colored butcher block oil that is food safe? Watco makes multiple colors and is available at home depot.
Yeah man. Sanding is one of the most crucial elements when it comes to finishing. I realized early on you can't half-ass the sanding process otherwise you're gonna get poor results. Great info nonetheless.
You usually would want to use a food safe stain similiar to what you would have with cutting boards. In this case since all the stains were an experiment I didn't look at that. That could be fixed with the top coat to help seal everything in.
Following this because I’d like to know a food safe finish also. I am staining a pine board to make a cheese board and I am trying to find a good safe finish for it.
Get rid of the orbital sander when doing finish work it's only good for removing material,stain,paint and such.....get urself a nice 1/4 sheet sander and go all the way to at least 320 grit and it will look perfect and always always go with the grain otherwise it looked pretty good
Hey, I just came across this video in search of ideas or techniques for butcher block counter top that I will be getting soon. I'm building a a desk out of it. Would it be ok to torch the block? if so, how would you go about it? also, what stain would be a good combination to go with it that won't make it too dark? I'm trying not to use gloss finish because i feel like i will stick to it from time to time lol. Thank you!
I got two benches from my work with a butcher block top i m making a bar in my cellar out of them .so I sanded them down so now should I use wood conditioner then stain then high gloss polyurethane?
Hi. Thanks for these great wood working videos. I mistakenly used Polyacrylic instead of water based polyurethane (Lowe's had it sitting right next to their oil based polyurethane). Now, months later, the paper from boxes, like cereal or popcorn, sticks to the polyacrylic. I then have to scrape the paper free. How can I fix this? .
You need to redo the entire finish, you didn’t let it cure long enough. It basically disintegrated before it hardened Same thing would happen with polyurethane It needs weeks to cure It could also be you applied too thick of a coat or didn’t sand down enough between coats leaving an uneven bumpy tacky finish I would try shellac or lacquer instead next time
It’s all about the time you spend sanding the hardwood...and sanding it correctly, and you my friend did NOT sand that wood correctly. You have to start the sanding process at about a 60 grit and work your way all the way to at least 320 or even finer. 60, 80, 120, 180, 220, 320...in that order. It’s a pain in the ass but if you want a hard wood like maple to look the way it’s should then that’s the way you gotta do it...otherwise leave it raw or lime wax it.
How much was the overall cost of this project (assuming you picked the right stain the first time)? My wife wants to buy and I want to build. Trying to figure the cost benefit.
Milk Manson it looks around 1” thick. 6’ x 3’ = 18 board feet at 1” thick. Take the $10 away for the stain used and $140 divided by 18 makes the wood cost around $7.75 per board foot. Maybe a little less with what’s lost on table saw cuts. Is this cheap? A little, but definitely not out the realm of possibility.
Yikes ... SO MICH unnecessary homework and nonsense! As a 30 year woodworking veteran . Just start with low , progressing to lower grit papers MAKE your sanding perfect... absolutely PERFECT. Vac surface ( prep for surgery) Apply oiil... if exact color with ox hair brush with perfect controlled feathering strokes... If too light reapply .... No pre , no gel , no shellac, no Goofy silly stuff
Please, Please, Please, Keep that sander flat. Angling your sander like that will eat into the wood and expose more end grain in a give area causing your counter to be more blotchy. It also makes your surface more uneven. If you feel the need to angle your sander to remove a deeper scratch you need to move to a lower grit paper.
I wanted to see if anyone else saw that
He’s basically adding way more scratches by angling it than the belt sander
And those scratches are swirled and even more noticeable
I'm just getting into all of this, but the second time I saw him do that I had to come comment but saw yours first. That was driving me nuts!
Usually stop at 150-grit (or 180 at the most) when staining. With a rough surface like that, I would have used 60- to 100- to 150-grit for sanding.
When putting a pre-stain conditioner on before staining, the stain will be a lot lighter than it otherwise would be, so you may want to choose a darker stain in that case. Also, gel stain is a good choice, and you can try not wiping it off as thoroughly if you want it to be darker. The more you leave on, the longer it will take to dry.
When using shellac underneath another finish, you should always use dewaxed shellac. If it does not say "wax free" or "dewaxed", then it still has wax in it. Zinsser SealCoat is 100% dewaxed shellac, but most big box stores do not carry it (you can usually order it through the big box stores). I have been able to find it in stock at Ace / True Value hardware stores. You can also mix it yourself by getting dewaxed shellac flakes and mixing it with 95% or higher purity ethanol (ethyl alcohol). You have to be careful with the denatured alcohol that you find in stores since a lot of it is well under 95% alcohol.
J Will good stuff! I did try finding that shellac around here but no luck. Gonto know that’s a good option vs trying to mix it down.
Dude.. I used to hate sanding and watching this video reminded me of the hours I spent sanding with a random orbit sander. Last summer I had to do a big project and bought a rotex 90/ct 15... now I love sanding. Treat yourself brother.
Well just goes to show I'm different.. I like the dings and darker spots, it gives the piece character.. and even tho nothing is perfect, it is still beautiful 😊😁
General finish recommends wiping it down with mineral spirits right before applying the stain on raw wood.
These pre-made butcher blocks are already pretty smooth. Hand sand with the grain and only use a fine or ultra fine sand paper or sanding block. Treat it with pre-stain and then stain. Make sure the prestain and the stain are either both water-based or both oil-based. If you decide to sand in between finishes, make sure to also use something that's ultra fine like 400 grit. Also do it within 24 hours of taking the wrapping off.
Does the pre-stain step help with the tacky shenanigans I am dealing now from my stain? Argh, think I need to sand it off for sure and start over?
This wasn’t a pre-made doe 🤔
For the surface preparation, you should work through the grits, not just jump from 120 to 220. The idea is you're making the scratches smaller and smaller, but that big a jump you'd need to spend considerably more time to work through the scratches. And keep the sander flat, rather than digging in on the "areas that need it", as that'll end up putting divots in it (and/or wear out your sander pad).
I've always found butcher block panels hard to stain too - while normally you might have 5-8 different boards in a panel, there can be a hundred different individual trees in those, and that can cause all different absorption rates with different grain patterns (flat/rift/quartersawn)
Thanks Paul! I did go to a lower grit in the second attempt and forgot to mention that I stopped digging my sander in for the last one after hearing back from people. Good to know that butcher block in general is hard to stain!
@@makeorbreakshop Sorry, I meant that chucking in a 150 or 180 grit between 120 and 220 will save you a *heap* of time.
If you're making a habit of large flat surfaces, it may be worth investing in a 6" ROS too - 40% more surface area on the disc adds up quick!
A stainable wood filler (like Timbermate), thinned down to be a pore/grain filler may also give good results for evening out the different boards, though I'm potentially talking out my backside on that one - I've used it to even out butcher board, but not even out AND stain it at the same time!
@@TheWoodKnight Oh gottcha! Yeh, I should have gone to 150/180. GOod call on the wood filler I was wondering if that would be something I could try. Thanks for the info!
@@makeorbreakshop stumpy nubs mentioned a rule of thumb is go +50%
So 80 -> 120
120 -> 180 etc
This is much easier to see with a graphic but I'll try and explain without one. Imagine you have a surface with a variable finish (different scratch sizes). Some of the scratches are 300 units deep and some are 200, 150, 100...etc. If you start with a fine grit (50) you are just knocking off the tops of the deeper scratches. It may feel smooth to touch but you are only feeling the top. There is still a variety of deep gouges and the gouges collect more stain. You have to go through the progression of grit sizes to get the entire surface to the same finish.
I have been a painter for over 30 yrs , the best stain to use for a butcher block is FOOD COLORING ! I have done many kitchen islands and have used this method for many years .
how do you mix it?
Watch Steve Ramsey video on stain and finishes. Also always pre stain and always have scrap would to text on before always start at 80 grits and for staining always always stop at 220 grits
ZAR stain is a surface stain from Ben Moore, I use that for finished pine and maple. Also, I wipe denatured alcohol with some water on the wood before staining.
That foam brush makes me cringe. ALL I ever use when staining wood is a very wide staining brush with bristles meant for stains. It works beautifully!
I would try not sanding to such a high grit sandpaper. Stop at 150. Maybe 180. Higher the grit. The more you close the grain. Stain doesn’t penetrate as easily. Just a suggestion
It’s only right that I subscribe this is exactly what I needed to do on the exact same piece. What are the odds great video and way to keep my attention because that hard 😖
Good tips, Brandon! Hate you have to go through all of that to find it out, but it seems that's how it goes sometimes. I've done the same thing with other projects.
Hey thanks for this video! Very helpful… I’m get ready to stain a maple butcher block segment for my kitchen counter. Don’t like the yellow so I will take your good advice and try it your way. Thank you so much!
how did it turn out did you use the same method
My opinion is that these Butcher blocks are usually pretty cheap for a reason: it takes huge amounts of labor to make it a nice finish. I used hardwood reflections with their own gel stain and it was a pure disaster. Looks so nice in the pictures and the application video made it seem so easy, IT"S NOT. They make money off people thinking it's going to be easy.
Yeh they are way harder than it looks
Understanding Wood Finishing By Bob Flexner. Get the newest version. Lots of good, solid information from an expert in the field. My first book when I started in the business. Saved lots of time. I have all my guys study the book when they start in my department. We repair furniture for a living.
if u would of sanded up to a 600 grit that would of soloved all ur issue with a oil base stain then tung oil
Feeling your pain, mate.
Keep that sander FLAT at all times.
Great informative video & some good viewer comments to learn from. I am also a rookie when it comes to finishing butcher blocks but this helped a lot.
In the end. How many coats of pre stain conditioner did you apply? And how many coats of stain was applied?
What is the best way to stain butcher block? None, because in my opinion, the main quality of butcher block which is the contrast between the different strips/species of wood should be maintained. If yall need an alternative to staining, give Danish Oil a shot. Some even have stains in it like Dark Walnut, so it'll pop the contrast a bit before drying darker.
Great video thanks so much!
Dude I watched you hand sand against the grain lol
I watched him sand at an angle when he lifted the rotary sander off the board and dug into it with only one side. Made me cringe lol
Super helpful video thanks! Toying with a free kitchen island butcher block on wheels I came across and trying to stain and turn into a work bench of sorts... eh- in any case- Does the pre-stain step help with the tacky shenanigans I am dealing now from my stain? Clearly my rookie skills has missed a step it seems- start over and pre-stain to gel?
Awesome video thanks! I am struggling with my birch butcher block, omg what a nightmare, i am having to remove all the poly and stain right now. I am worried about making the same mistake. The poly looked horrible, i think we used a minwax Oil based poly, on top of my Kona Gel stain .. .I think we did the same thing with the stain i didnt let it sit long enough and wiped to much off. it looked nice in the begging but the next day it was faded quit a bit. But it wasn't that bad., WE covered it with some poly and it was horrible looking made it look faded even more??? no idea why? I put down a the butcher block oil on the butcher block before staining not a oil based pre stain. I have no idea but i am looking for idea on what to cover my stain with, i do NOT LIKE POLY at all. It was so plastic looking and showed so much flaws along with looking cloudy. .
Polyurethane works well. Use some old tshirts to apply and wipe off.
Good call!
Is there a reason you are using regular wood stain instead of colored butcher block oil that is food safe? Watco makes multiple colors and is available at home depot.
Charles Neil's pre color conditioner. Look him up. He has some great coloring videos.
Thanks!
Yeah man. Sanding is one of the most crucial elements when it comes to finishing. I realized early on you can't half-ass the sanding process otherwise you're gonna get poor results. Great info nonetheless.
i have found varathane brand to be very cheap.. i am forever a minwax guy now. the difference is night and day in quality.
Was that two coats of gel stain? I thought it would be much darker.
This may be a dumb question, but, is it that stain toxic for putting your food on??
You usually would want to use a food safe stain similiar to what you would have with cutting boards. In this case since all the stains were an experiment I didn't look at that. That could be fixed with the top coat to help seal everything in.
Make or Break Shop what is a typical top coat? And if you let it cure does that make it food safe?
Following this because I’d like to know a food safe finish also. I am staining a pine board to make a cheese board and I am trying to find a good safe finish for it.
Susan Dupree , you might try a brand called “” TRIED AND TRUE “” it’s on Amazon
Get rid of the orbital sander when doing finish work it's only good for removing material,stain,paint and such.....get urself a nice 1/4 sheet sander and go all the way to at least 320 grit and it will look perfect and always always go with the grain otherwise it looked pretty good
Commissions are an exercise in learning to say “no”. (And walking them through why it may be a bad path to go down in your experience)
David Lyell ha very true. Although I suggested the maple to start out not realizing the staining mess I was going to run into...live and learn!
Hey, I just came across this video in search of ideas or techniques for butcher block counter top that I will be getting soon. I'm building a a desk out of it. Would it be ok to torch the block? if so, how would you go about it? also, what stain would be a good combination to go with it that won't make it too dark? I'm trying not to use gloss finish because i feel like i will stick to it from time to time lol. Thank you!
Just wondering how much did that much maple wood cost? I'm looking at doing a countertop just like that
A 39" x 74" x 1.5" Hevea butcher block from Lowes is < $400. Hevea is a type of Maple. You can also get Acacia depending on the look you want
I got two benches from my work with a butcher block top i m making a bar in my cellar out of them .so I sanded them down so now should I use wood conditioner then stain then high gloss polyurethane?
Nice Watts 👓
Hi. Thanks for these great wood working videos. I mistakenly used Polyacrylic instead of water based polyurethane (Lowe's had it sitting right next to their oil based polyurethane). Now, months later, the paper from boxes, like cereal or popcorn, sticks to the polyacrylic. I then have to scrape the paper free. How can I fix this?
.
You need to redo the entire finish, you didn’t let it cure long enough. It basically disintegrated before it hardened
Same thing would happen with polyurethane
It needs weeks to cure
It could also be you applied too thick of a coat or didn’t sand down enough between coats leaving an uneven bumpy tacky finish
I would try shellac or lacquer instead next time
Are these food safe?
Would this be considered a food safe surface after applying both products?
I'm also wondering this
It’s all about the time you spend sanding the hardwood...and sanding it correctly, and you my friend did NOT sand that wood correctly. You have to start the sanding process at about a 60 grit and work your way all the way to at least 320 or even finer. 60, 80, 120, 180, 220, 320...in that order. It’s a pain in the ass but if you want a hard wood like maple to look the way it’s should then that’s the way you gotta do it...otherwise leave it raw or lime wax it.
Correct. Don't skip grits.
Did you wait a specific amount of time between each step?
How much was the overall cost of this project (assuming you picked the right stain the first time)? My wife wants to buy and I want to build. Trying to figure the cost benefit.
Wood and stain was around 150
@@makeorbreakshop You are either missing a zero or you stole it, because you couldn't make that thing out of fir or pine for $150. No way.
Milk Manson it looks around 1” thick. 6’ x 3’ = 18 board feet at 1” thick. Take the $10 away for the stain used and $140 divided by 18 makes the wood cost around $7.75 per board foot. Maybe a little less with what’s lost on table saw cuts. Is this cheap? A little, but definitely not out the realm of possibility.
Do you stain and seal both sides?
What avout using wood deck stain
Where did you buy your butcher block? Did you make it?
You can get it at Lowe’s 39 x 72 or 24 x 48
Was antique walnut the actual color you used? When I click the link it brings me to that. Just wanna make sure. Love the tone.
yep!
what a cutie
Yikes ... SO MICH unnecessary homework and nonsense! As a 30 year woodworking veteran . Just start with low , progressing to lower grit papers MAKE your sanding perfect... absolutely PERFECT. Vac surface ( prep for surgery) Apply oiil... if exact color with ox hair brush with perfect controlled feathering strokes... If too light reapply .... No pre , no gel , no shellac, no Goofy silly stuff
You do realize that I wouldn't have to do homework/nonsense if I also had 30 years of experience... Thanks for the tips
what oil?