Hi Folks: Owner of a Bruce Roberts 36 steel boat here. My comments as an old man: You are young so time doesn't mean as much sit does to me.. Your boat is a beautiful thing indeed but work needed, loving care. You can remove stuff inside and put it back. It is not difficult. Just think, once you get it right, you are safe and have peace of mind. You'll can do it. And then go to sea with confidence. You two are smart, and skilled, so relax, you got this.
We have def had remind ourselves a few times of how much better and stronger she will be when we are done. Luckily the moments at the end of this video were our lowest and things have looked up since!
I know how you both feel ,i have been refitting my 62 year old steel yacht for 2 years 9 months and sometimes it gets to me ,big time,but i just persevere with the project and grit my teeth and just keep working on it .I ,too, have trouble financing the project ,i am always juggling my budget ,lol,i do everything myself to save money and lucky i have the skills required to do so.Chin up Logan,you are a competent welder / tradesman and problem solver,do your best everyday and it will be finished.I would suggest removing the bulwarks,fix the deck rust area and fit a new sheerline bulkwark plate and cap it with 2 inch stainless steel 316 heavy wall tube.Mount the genoa track on top of the tube if no interference from shrouds or handrails. Best regards from Aus and keep up the good work
Having restored a 1917 - built wooden gaff ketch, I know the joys and heartaches of bringing an ailing boat back to good health. This is one of those heartache times which must be endured before gaining the joy of sailing your boat again.
Wowza, you guys continue to impress us with your perseverance and metalworking skills! We know very little about metal boats but dang, Papa Rumba will be brand new when you are done with her!
There's a bright side. When the rains come you'll already be under shelter and setup. Be sure to take a break and enjoy a hot toddy while listening to the pitter patter on the roof 🙂
i bought a 1984 fiberglass ketch. the surveyor missed a lot. it toke a lot of hours and cuts and bruises. but it’s finally done and looking great. you guys will make it look great again. good luck 👍
Ah those damn surveys hey? The potential for these problems showed up on our survey but we decided to go forward with it anyway, not realizing how much work would be involved to right the issues if they were as bad as we thought they might be. Glad to hear you are back in the water!
I do feel for you both. I had the same problems with a Van de Stadt Carribean 40ft about 10 years ago. Also the footrail and deck completely rusted and some spots beneath the waterline. And the sprayed-on insulation wich is a fire risc. I have spend years considering how to attack these problems and finaly I dessided to sell the boat for far less then I payed. Seeing your video's makes me feel sory that I did not have the same courage as you two. The way you are handeling this, eventough it is an lot off work en blood sweat and tears, will pay off for you. Wish you goog luck on your journey.
Awe I’m sorry to hear you got rid of her before you had a chance to fix her, but I get it. It’s so much work and a lot more than we expected, and a lot more skill involved than I expected as well to make sure the boat doesn’t warp. Luckily we are close to being done the stuff that can cause warping. Just a few small areas to check and see if it’s rusting and then we are on to painting and putting things back together!
Oh god, I feel for you guys. This throws me right back to my first car, a gorgeous life long Florida rust free 1969 Buick, body was mint but needed paint, it even had the original hubcaps, the interior was rough but there were no records for the engine. I bought it, started doing work on it, and then the timing chain broke. And I found out why there were no records for the engine, because there had apparently never been any maintenance done on it. A lot of time, hard work, and many thousands of dollars later I got it back on the road, and it was worth every bit of the trouble. Your project is a lot bigger, but you guys seem pretty bad ass, you'll make it through, and it'll be worth it.
Yup, been there and 7 years later just putting the antifouling on, then outa here! Don’t give up! Go hard! That bulwark was a dumb design and a disaster waiting to happen, good chance for you to make it right and have no future worries…
Oh damn! Well I’m glad to hear you’re almost back in the water! We are very excited about the prospect of having this righted and not having to worry for sure 😂
We have a similar problem with our genoa track, my plan is remove the interior and insulation cut out the rusted deck sections below the track and a weld 8mm Corten strip that sits 4mm above the deck, with drilled and tapped holes to secure the track. Hopefully the elevated attachment will stay drier and repel water. I will also use a nitrile gasket to reduce sweating under the track. Our bulwarks are 6mm single skin with a 50 x 25mm, 316 cap rail. We will be able to patch this, the main corrosion has started in the undercut in the top side of the weld under the rail, I think I will use stainless wire to fix the undercuts were the rust has started. Great channel.
Thanks for watching! Using Corten for patches is an interesting one. It’s notoriously hard to weld and def involves some extra research, but we would love to hear how it works out for you. Let us know how the stainless wire fixes works too!
Hi, a suggestion for the genoa track, if it's any help.. I always thought "less holes in the deck the better" so maybe a welded on raised piece of c channel, so u can bolt to that, kinda makes it sacrificial and fixable. I think same for winches too, really all hardware. Just a thought :)
What a tremendously disappointing discovery, but I have faith that "super" Logan will effect repairs that are effective, long lasting and at least as good looking as the original. I hope that this doesn't set the re-launch by to much. Very good video work Taryn. I look forward to both platform up-loads.
very interesting your comment on the teak cant believe anyone would do this, recipe for disaster, as if the untreated enclosed bullwark wasnt bad enough. i always thought you seemed a bit optimistic about saving the bullwark when i first started seeing the level of rusting inside even just on the inside edge
I think that optimism is the only thing that kept us (well me, Taryn) for a couple of months there 😂 Logan also thought it was optimistic but I wasn’t about to let the potential dread drag me down until it had to. However in real time we started on the starboard side today so that’s exciting!
@@WaywardLifeSailing you do have to be optimistic and hope for the best in life, and then when that fails make the best of the situation your in, just tell yourself, it could always have been worse 😅
Oh god, what a mess! I stumbled onto your channel b/c I've been researching boat kits for years and pretty much settled on the Norman pilothouse in aluminum. Unfortunately that bulwark looks like a bad design for steel and a ticking timebomb. Hopefully you get all the cancer addressed and put all this behind you to enjoy that big heavy steel cadillac as she gracefully bobs along in the roughest of waters, easily punting logs aside. Gimme a shout if you're close to comox, I'd be happy to volunteer a hand
My take-away is "no hollow structures". A single piece of steel not a hollow bulwark, no flat against flat, only T joints fully welded. It may not be possible to change that much, but any chance to avoid hollows is a chance to avoid future repairs. Boat designers: have a care for maintainability, please. This is not just about steel, but how to use steel. Thanks for revealing the way to think when designing a steel boat.
Im really curious how you folks ended up in this situation. Given your backgrounds, did you survey her well, or have a steel corrosion specialist have a look at her? Im in the process of buying a Saugeen Witch of similar size and walking VERY cautiously into this. So far all the red flags are topside. But we're talking wastage of like 6-10%. The construction methods for steel must be meticulous and given the inherent strength, almost all focus in build right down to interior finishings, should be to prevent corrosion issues (such as flat bar internal supports not tubing etc. and access to the normally inaccessible areas all planned for. What made yoh decide to continue with this project? It is absolutely daunting to me. Hats off to you folks for recycling something that most others would have run from. I had a Lake Erie style commercial fishing boat. She sat for a year in fresh water but with a bad ground somewhere from a shore/dock source. When u hauled her and took her home she broke right through her cradle the next spring. Bottom totally gone. I got a good scrap price, at least. That was in tthe late 90s. Anyway, hats off to yiu folks for sticking this out o7
Well the short answer is that we had her surveyed, came back with a bunch of possible issues that we couldn’t see the extent of without cutting holes into things, decided to take the risk because we figured she would be worth the rebuild if we needed to do one, AND THEN it turned out that all the issues we found were worst case scenario, plus a couple more holes we hadn’t seen because they were under numerous coats of paint hidden in bilges. She was built to be a cruising yacht in the med and then ended up in one of the wettest places in the world, and in the process I think we are the only owners who have an understanding of steel. So that’s the long story made short. But in real time we are on the water and cruising again, so it’s seeming like the hard work is paying off! She sails beautifully and is comfy to live on
Hi Terran Logan. Do you really want top keep a bulwark? My VdS34 has a welded toe rail. I could send you a few pics if you want... And remember Papa Rumba is a BEAUTIFUL boat and will all be worth it! Note that your sail track are aluminum and the boat is steel so you will have to isolate the those or you will have an anode/cathode relationship. 0k I am going to go watch the last one.
Yes there will def be some kiwigrip going on at some point! We decided to keep the bulwarks because of how low our freeboard is and we just thought it would look better! In real time we just finished putting on the port side bulwarks and started cutting chunks out of the port side. The new bulwarks look pretty good if I do say so muself!
The hope in sharing this whole journey has been to give people the education to accurately determine if steel is the right fit for them, so I’m glad it has helped you do that
All the steel inside the bulwarks was bare and someone drilled holes into them which let air and salt water get in there, so over 25 years it got to this point
I live in Port Hardy. I'm a heavy equipment mechanic/welder. I've worked on steel dozer and side winder boats in the logging industry. I know how bad rust can get. The work is huge. Question.... Do you absolutely need bullworks??? It seems to me a flat clean deck where water can roll off would be so much better and cheaper to fix this problem. Question... If you need a bullworks why make an enclosed channel that can not be painted??? Why not just fix the deck and use one strip of solid plate that can easily be painted. Have you ever seen what happens on the coast around here to painted steel box tube boat trailers??? Same thing that happened to your bullworks. A bullworks made of H beam, I beam or channel beam would be plenty strong and much much quicker than trying to rebuild that boxed in rust prone structure..... Might not look as good but alot more practical and functional. There is a way to make that boxed in structure out live the boat though... Weld it solid and water tight, weld in a pipe Scully, then fill it with used engine oil if it leaks in the future fix the leak and add more used oil. I've used that method it works well. Good job on the chain locker.
You, my friend, are thinking very much like we have been! We chose to put bulwarks back on in order to keep more water off the deck when at sea because our freeboard is pretty low, but we are doing similar to what you are saying- flat bar capped with pipe and fully welded so as long as we keep up with paint and don’t put holes through the pipe we should be ok in the future
@@WaywardLifeSailing Are you going to have a toerail? I'd suggest doing something like Mads did on sail life, it was a relatively easy build and looks great.
@@bobadam7021 it’s the same height bulwark as was there, but it’s flat bar instead of a channel and capped with a pipe. If you happen to be interested, we post weekly updates in real time on our patreon and the $1/ month memberships get access to all those weekly videos. In real time we just finished piecing together the port side. Just waiting for one more tool to finish the welding and then move onto the starboard side
Blast the whole boat with aggregate. Then test the thickness with a meter . Weld all the holes and patch all the pieces. Check out "Sailing Melody". The positive is you will have a brand new hull you can seal with epoxy
The hull is solid luckily. It’s just those portions of the deck that were encased in the bulwarks. We have access to all of the bilges and the bottom was just repainted two years ago so we are pretty confident about everything below the water line, minus maybe the water tank which we will get to after we are done the bulwakrs
@@WaywardLifeSailingit was dozy of the builders to box it off like that. They could have used a simple tube tagged to the top, but they went for astetics I suppose. If it's just that area of the boat don't despair. You'd rather be sailing than welding, but at least you'll have the comfort of knowing it's done properly. If you really wanted to stop it ever happening again you could oil fill the bulwark like they did on old motorcycles. It would never rust from the inside again. Lol. You could go and buy a totally fine looking yacht and still have a problem like this. Your documenting all the hard work, so that will count for something come sale time.
@@wildandbarefoot believe it or not they had it full of fluid film to try and minimize the damage but it just solidified and the air got to it anyway due to holes being drilled in the bulwarks. Luckily I think we have a solution figured out but only time will tell. Def a design flaw that should never be repeated 😂 thanks for your comments 😌
Surprised you had problems with a Dutch built steel boat, they normally know what they are doing. I looked at one, it used Corten steel, not even complete painted inside, but still good.
That's horrible news. I hope taking the galley apart wasn't too painful. Best of luck that you've uncovered the worst of the corrosion. I must admit watching this kind of feels like this scene which will hopefully give you a good laugh: th-cam.com/video/fPZVo5hObkU/w-d-xo.html
Omg that video 😂😂😂 this experience made me say “worst case Ontario” more times than I can count 😂 as long as we are above trailer park boys level I guess we are doing ok 😂😂😂
Cheers guys! It was a terrible design, I can’t see the logic in how the Original designers thought that was a good idea.. my thinking if you haven’t already started, this was 2 months ago.. is to cut them bulwarks off completely obvious lay in new steel for the deck where it needs it, and rebuild the complete Stanchions and safety rail out of Preferably stainless steel, (a bit like Amel) with three gates one either side and one aft, then she should have the structure strength back, (lets be honest, that wasn’t structural anymore anyway) And replace the bulwarks with a nice hardwood through bolted on the new steel stanchions, with full drainage between the deck and timber bulwark’s.. Yeah great Trev you just spent 10k .. but that would actually be pretty Structural sound, probably better then it ever was, one connected to the pushpit and pullpit. But Logan i know your seriously capable, but remember she is going to try and Buckle inwards the second you remove the deck or parts of.. so either way you are going to need to take measurements and maybe tack some hooks so you can pull pressure outwardly anywhere there isnt a bulkhead holding her, hopefully something you can adjust easily atleast until that part of the deck is welded back in.. i think my design, will actually work.. but the hassle and cost? The bulwarks outta timber won’t be mega expensive, but the material costs will.. sailing Avocet, did a really good episode making timber bulwarks. Again, sorry for the bad news guy’s. If you can’t understand what i mean you know how to contact me, but I’m not a naval engineer, I believe Luke Quick from the channel Quick Creations is? His building a steel mono aswell he is in our group.. he may have advice?
Thanks Trev! We have done something kind of similar to what you are suggesting that we think will work quite a bit better and stay within our neater budget 😌 it was def a big thinker and we were happy to be changing the design
You have live on it while you work on it. Your supposed to remove ALL of the interior to a bare hull, then it will be much easier to rebuild. Steel sheet is cheaper than marine grade plywood you know? Don’t throw in the towel . You don’t have to replace the interior it’s all bolted to metal tabs all the wood work is easy to remove. Their never is an end in sight until you get to the bare hull, deck works is thin steel put a heater inside the boat a few heaters seal the boat with a tarp and let the heat dryout the wet steel. When you buy a used rusted hulk number one is remove all the interior and then cover up the engine, tanks all come out everything then you have a bare hull inside outside get a camper live on it give up your rental housing live next to your boat, that way you come home from work walk ten feet work on your boat. You will too clear out the entire interior bare hull then continue drying her out you find all the rusted locations and plasma it all out, then you buy steel sheet and plate. Once you get the boat down too a bare hull, that’s when the rebuilding begins. You cannot rebuild a steel boat with the interior wood framing in place . If a rusty metal boat has any rusticals (Titanic), rust through paint. Pin holes then the whole boat must be completely brought down to bare frames and plating further inside wooden fixtures such as bulkheads floors, window dressing port wood paneling the head, the galley, bunks curtains everything tanks the only item at the end left inside the hull will be the engine and girder mounts and possibly the steering gear. When you get too the above point. You will be relieved , further you will find suddenly you have all this space to run plasma welder might welder lighting and so on, this time period is calling the healing process meaning that now you rebuild with new steel. Try and buy a plasma cutter with air pump and air built in saves a lot of time and money having to not replace bottles, expensive yes over a 1000.00$ but absolutely worth it, by a Chinese hundred dollar welder, or mig making sure it’s 220 non of that 110 stuff. Order in the new thinner deck sheet, just a few pieces at a time, hull plating for your sailboat is either 10 gauge sides 3/16 bottom decks carlins and so on probably 18 gauge or something. Further as you diss assemble trying find out what it was that rusted your decks and carlins, was no zincs on the hull or electrical corrosion or aluminum with no insulator barrier between it and the steel? Electrical charge sending current through a steel hull and gut the hull in under 6 months. All electrical must be grounded from a steel hull the no contact rule applies insulators are a must in a steel boat. Once you have a bare hull replacing the metal parts start with the hull only at the keel check to see if the keel has lead in it or concrete mixed with steel or non at all depends on the kind of keel you have, the frames in your boat are probably 3/16 angle. It looked to me like your hull is a wine glass hull if so you will need maybe a sheet bender for the plating that’s hard work, if it is a wine glass hull chances are the hull playing in thinner then 12 gauge perhaps 16 as thinner sheet would be used for a wine glass hull or round hull design. Right now your only costs are storage and lights. You will need to Sand Blast the hull when it’s fixed regardless, sand blasting is a nasty kind of business most people pay to have some else blast after the blasting is completed you have four hrs to paint the hull inside and and out with primer coat if you pass this time period rust particals will form on the hull and you will have to re blast it, listen it’s a nasty filthy job requiring a hazmat suit and respirator and it makes a big mess all over and under your boat. Every cent you invest each new weldment of steel increases your boats value by 500.00$ remember that. Do not use foam concealed in steel bad bad bad you only want foam between your cabin bulkheads and the hull and frames reason, metal hulls sweat from condensation sticking foam spray foam to the inside of an epoxied interior hull stops the sweating. Steel is cheap, becarefull removing the wood infrastructure because you will want to re install it saving your self wood costs for a new interior . Note down every piece of wood you remove and its location because if you do not, then it’s like openning up a 1000 piece puzzle not knowing where all the pieces fit. If this helps you any. I once had a friend he was 72 years old he built a new fifty foot gaff rigged cutter he had to loft the frames on a floor of plywood based upon the lofting lines in the drawings , that takes a lot of time and plywood . He went from lofting the frames to a fully welded hull in six months and he did this in the middle of winter by spring his two fifty horse Chinese diesel engines had arrived by end of summer the boat was in the water all he had was his 2000.00 a month pension he lived in a shack next to his boat this was in 1991. Maybe this true story will build your moral and that of your girlfriend she can help as well it’s always nice to watch but the two of you are young and you can take 1/3 off the time with her help passing tools and helping grind the rust off. What my favorite boat building material well after 40 years of messing with all construction methods , simply Plywood with red oak frames, the great thing about steel is no wood dusk. Well must go I have company in my keypad of my iPhone good luck!
I can tell you after spending 2.5 years rebuilding this boat, after having spent 4 months the year before rebuilding an entire fibreglass chain locker and deck head that on a cruising boat, steel is not necessarily easier, and it is guaranteed to need more maintenance.
We were. I think this was the only point that we questioned what we were doing. Luckily this was two months ago and things have gone fairly well since.
Hi Folks: Owner of a Bruce Roberts 36 steel boat here. My comments as an old man: You are young so time doesn't mean as much sit does to me.. Your boat is a beautiful thing indeed but work needed, loving care. You can remove stuff inside and put it back. It is not difficult. Just think, once you get it right, you are safe and have peace of mind. You'll can do it. And then go to sea with confidence. You two are smart, and skilled, so relax, you got this.
We have def had remind ourselves a few times of how much better and stronger she will be when we are done. Luckily the moments at the end of this video were our lowest and things have looked up since!
I know how you both feel ,i have been refitting my 62 year old steel yacht for 2 years 9 months and sometimes it gets to me ,big time,but i just persevere with the project and grit my teeth and just keep working on it .I ,too, have trouble financing the project ,i am always juggling my budget ,lol,i do everything myself to save money and lucky i have the skills required to do so.Chin up Logan,you are a competent welder / tradesman and problem solver,do your best everyday and it will be finished.I would suggest removing the bulwarks,fix the deck rust area and fit a new sheerline bulkwark plate and cap it with 2 inch stainless steel 316 heavy wall tube.Mount the genoa track on top of the tube if no interference from shrouds or handrails. Best regards from Aus and keep up the good work
Thanks for watching and for the encouragement! And best of luck with your project as well!
So sorry guys, if anyone can pull it off it's you two! It will make for a great story years from now.
Haha thanks! We will just keep living vicariously through you guys sailing
Having restored a 1917 - built wooden gaff ketch, I know the joys and heartaches of bringing an ailing boat back to good health. This is one of those heartache times which must be endured before gaining the joy of sailing your boat again.
Definitely and luckily we are already starting to feel better about thing as we got the capping pipe tacked on today!! But damn what a rollercoaster
Your standard of craftsmanship is awesome. Hope you both stay positive and look forward to years of sailing with a solid hull!
Thanks! The depression luckily didn’t last very long 😌
Wowza, you guys continue to impress us with your perseverance and metalworking skills! We know very little about metal boats but dang, Papa Rumba will be brand new when you are done with her!
She will def be solid when she makes it back into the water!
There's a bright side. When the rains come you'll already be under shelter and setup. Be sure to take a break and enjoy a hot toddy while listening to the pitter patter on the roof 🙂
Haha true! No flood worries this year!
i bought a 1984 fiberglass ketch. the surveyor missed a lot. it toke a lot of hours and cuts and bruises. but it’s finally done and looking great. you guys will make it look great again. good luck 👍
Ah those damn surveys hey? The potential for these problems showed up on our survey but we decided to go forward with it anyway, not realizing how much work would be involved to right the issues if they were as bad as we thought they might be. Glad to hear you are back in the water!
I do feel for you both. I had the same problems with a Van de Stadt Carribean 40ft about 10 years ago. Also the footrail and deck completely rusted and some spots beneath the waterline. And the sprayed-on insulation wich is a fire risc. I have spend years considering how to attack these problems and finaly I dessided to sell the boat for far less then I payed. Seeing your video's makes me feel sory that I did not have the same courage as you two. The way you are handeling this, eventough it is an lot off work en blood sweat and tears, will pay off for you. Wish you goog luck on your journey.
Awe I’m sorry to hear you got rid of her before you had a chance to fix her, but I get it. It’s so much work and a lot more than we expected, and a lot more skill involved than I expected as well to make sure the boat doesn’t warp. Luckily we are close to being done the stuff that can cause warping. Just a few small areas to check and see if it’s rusting and then we are on to painting and putting things back together!
Awe I'm so sorry this happened to you both. It looks like so much work. Keep yourself positive. It'll be worth it in the long run for your trip North.
Thank you! 😌❤️
Oh god, I feel for you guys. This throws me right back to my first car, a gorgeous life long Florida rust free 1969 Buick, body was mint but needed paint, it even had the original hubcaps, the interior was rough but there were no records for the engine. I bought it, started doing work on it, and then the timing chain broke. And I found out why there were no records for the engine, because there had apparently never been any maintenance done on it. A lot of time, hard work, and many thousands of dollars later I got it back on the road, and it was worth every bit of the trouble. Your project is a lot bigger, but you guys seem pretty bad ass, you'll make it through, and it'll be worth it.
Thanks for the encouragement! That’s rough to have happen to an engine too! Glad you were able to get her running again!
So very sorry guys. Very sad to see this. I pray you get through this and truly wish you all the best ...
Luckily this was two months ago and things are looking better now, although our timeline has definitely been stretched a lot
Yup, been there and 7 years later just putting the antifouling on, then outa here! Don’t give up! Go hard! That bulwark was a dumb design and a disaster waiting to happen, good chance for you to make it right and have no future worries…
Oh damn! Well I’m glad to hear you’re almost back in the water! We are very excited about the prospect of having this righted and not having to worry for sure 😂
We have a similar problem with our genoa track, my plan is remove the interior and insulation cut out the rusted deck sections below the track and a weld 8mm Corten strip that sits 4mm above the deck, with drilled and tapped holes to secure the track. Hopefully the elevated attachment will stay drier and repel water. I will also use a nitrile gasket to reduce sweating under the track. Our bulwarks are 6mm single skin with a 50 x 25mm, 316 cap rail. We will be able to patch this, the main corrosion has started in the undercut in the top side of the weld under the rail, I think I will use stainless wire to fix the undercuts were the rust has started. Great channel.
Thanks for watching! Using Corten for patches is an interesting one. It’s notoriously hard to weld and def involves some extra research, but we would love to hear how it works out for you. Let us know how the stainless wire fixes works too!
Hang in there. You will preserve.
Thanks for the encouragement!
Hi, a suggestion for the genoa track, if it's any help.. I always thought "less holes in the deck the better" so maybe a welded on raised piece of c channel, so u can bolt to that, kinda makes it sacrificial and fixable. I think same for winches too, really all hardware. Just a thought :)
What a tremendously disappointing discovery, but I have faith that "super" Logan will effect repairs that are effective, long lasting and at least as good looking as the original. I hope that this doesn't set the re-launch by to much. Very good video work Taryn. I look forward to both platform up-loads.
Thanks John! Always look forward to your comments 😌
very interesting your comment on the teak cant believe anyone would do this, recipe for disaster, as if the untreated enclosed bullwark wasnt bad enough. i always thought you seemed a bit optimistic about saving the bullwark when i first started seeing the level of rusting inside even just on the inside edge
I think that optimism is the only thing that kept us (well me, Taryn) for a couple of months there 😂 Logan also thought it was optimistic but I wasn’t about to let the potential dread drag me down until it had to. However in real time we started on the starboard side today so that’s exciting!
@@WaywardLifeSailing you do have to be optimistic and hope for the best in life, and then when that fails make the best of the situation your in, just tell yourself, it could always have been worse 😅
Oh god, what a mess! I stumbled onto your channel b/c I've been researching boat kits for years and pretty much settled on the Norman pilothouse in aluminum. Unfortunately that bulwark looks like a bad design for steel and a ticking timebomb. Hopefully you get all the cancer addressed and put all this behind you to enjoy that big heavy steel cadillac as she gracefully bobs along in the roughest of waters, easily punting logs aside. Gimme a shout if you're close to comox, I'd be happy to volunteer a hand
We are super happy with her minus that one design flaw 😂 def a great bot and we can’t wait to be back on the water!
@@WaywardLifeSailing I can't wait to see you guys sailing her around here. I'd love a tour!!
@@Cacheola we can’t wait to get back out there! 😌 might be a while before the interior looks very good though haha
Wonder if a magnet scan check would have revealed those bogged up holes.
Chin up there are good times to come ,one step at a time
Thanks!
My take-away is "no hollow structures". A single piece of steel not a hollow bulwark, no flat against flat, only T joints fully welded. It may not be possible to change that much, but any chance to avoid hollows is a chance to avoid future repairs. Boat designers: have a care for maintainability, please. This is not just about steel, but how to use steel. Thanks for revealing the way to think when designing a steel boat.
Exactly. And if you need to have a hollow enclosed space for some reason, don’t later drill any holes into it! 😂 That’s what really did this one in.
Im really curious how you folks ended up in this situation. Given your backgrounds, did you survey her well, or have a steel corrosion specialist have a look at her? Im in the process of buying a Saugeen Witch of similar size and walking VERY cautiously into this. So far all the red flags are topside. But we're talking wastage of like 6-10%. The construction methods for steel must be meticulous and given the inherent strength, almost all focus in build right down to interior finishings, should be to prevent corrosion issues (such as flat bar internal supports not tubing etc. and access to the normally inaccessible areas all planned for. What made yoh decide to continue with this project? It is absolutely daunting to me. Hats off to you folks for recycling something that most others would have run from. I had a Lake Erie style commercial fishing boat. She sat for a year in fresh water but with a bad ground somewhere from a shore/dock source. When u hauled her and took her home she broke right through her cradle the next spring. Bottom totally gone. I got a good scrap price, at least. That was in tthe late 90s. Anyway, hats off to yiu folks for sticking this out o7
Well the short answer is that we had her surveyed, came back with a bunch of possible issues that we couldn’t see the extent of without cutting holes into things, decided to take the risk because we figured she would be worth the rebuild if we needed to do one, AND THEN it turned out that all the issues we found were worst case scenario, plus a couple more holes we hadn’t seen because they were under numerous coats of paint hidden in bilges. She was built to be a cruising yacht in the med and then ended up in one of the wettest places in the world, and in the process I think we are the only owners who have an understanding of steel. So that’s the long story made short. But in real time we are on the water and cruising again, so it’s seeming like the hard work is paying off! She sails beautifully and is comfy to live on
Wow.. that sucks on so many levels.. I'll spare you guys for platitudes, other than hoping you'll find the energy to get a result you're happy with..
Much appreciated! It’s been a time but things are starting to look up now
Never attach aluminum direct contact with Steel, result kids, Massive Corrosion: message from a pro!?
I really want a steel boat becasue the pros of a steel boat are huge, but im afraid of something like that for sure.
Hi Terran Logan.
Do you really want top keep a bulwark? My VdS34 has a welded toe rail. I could send you a few pics if you want...
And remember Papa Rumba is a BEAUTIFUL boat and will all be worth it!
Note that your sail track are aluminum and the boat is steel so you will have to isolate the those or you will have an anode/cathode relationship.
0k I am going to go watch the last one.
Ha, one more thing: If you decide on putting non-skid on the deck there is much less fairing to do...
Yes there will def be some kiwigrip going on at some point! We decided to keep the bulwarks because of how low our freeboard is and we just thought it would look better! In real time we just finished putting on the port side bulwarks and started cutting chunks out of the port side. The new bulwarks look pretty good if I do say so muself!
Sorry to hear of your troubles. At least I now know that I will never buy a steel boat.
The hope in sharing this whole journey has been to give people the education to accurately determine if steel is the right fit for them, so I’m glad it has helped you do that
So sad, it's got great lines and floor plan. Why so rusty? Age? Was it submerged?
All the steel inside the bulwarks was bare and someone drilled holes into them which let air and salt water get in there, so over 25 years it got to this point
I live in Port Hardy. I'm a heavy equipment mechanic/welder. I've worked on steel dozer and side winder boats in the logging industry. I know how bad rust can get. The work is huge. Question.... Do you absolutely need bullworks??? It seems to me a flat clean deck where water can roll off would be so much better and cheaper to fix this problem. Question... If you need a bullworks why make an enclosed channel that can not be painted??? Why not just fix the deck and use one strip of solid plate that can easily be painted. Have you ever seen what happens on the coast around here to painted steel box tube boat trailers??? Same thing that happened to your bullworks. A bullworks made of H beam, I beam or channel beam would be plenty strong and much much quicker than trying to rebuild that boxed in rust prone structure..... Might not look as good but alot more practical and functional. There is a way to make that boxed in structure out live the boat though... Weld it solid and water tight, weld in a pipe Scully, then fill it with used engine oil if it leaks in the future fix the leak and add more used oil. I've used that method it works well. Good job on the chain locker.
You, my friend, are thinking very much like we have been! We chose to put bulwarks back on in order to keep more water off the deck when at sea because our freeboard is pretty low, but we are doing similar to what you are saying- flat bar capped with pipe and fully welded so as long as we keep up with paint and don’t put holes through the pipe we should be ok in the future
@@WaywardLifeSailing Are you going to have a toerail? I'd suggest doing something like Mads did on sail life, it was a relatively easy build and looks great.
@@bobadam7021 it’s the same height bulwark as was there, but it’s flat bar instead of a channel and capped with a pipe. If you happen to be interested, we post weekly updates in real time on our patreon and the $1/ month memberships get access to all those weekly videos. In real time we just finished piecing together the port side. Just waiting for one more tool to finish the welding and then move onto the starboard side
Blast the whole boat with aggregate. Then test the thickness with a meter . Weld all the holes and patch all the pieces. Check out "Sailing Melody". The positive is you will have a brand new hull you can seal with epoxy
The hull is solid luckily. It’s just those portions of the deck that were encased in the bulwarks. We have access to all of the bilges and the bottom was just repainted two years ago so we are pretty confident about everything below the water line, minus maybe the water tank which we will get to after we are done the bulwakrs
@@WaywardLifeSailingit was dozy of the builders to box it off like that. They could have used a simple tube tagged to the top, but they went for astetics I suppose. If it's just that area of the boat don't despair. You'd rather be sailing than welding, but at least you'll have the comfort of knowing it's done properly. If you really wanted to stop it ever happening again you could oil fill the bulwark like they did on old motorcycles. It would never rust from the inside again. Lol.
You could go and buy a totally fine looking yacht and still have a problem like this. Your documenting all the hard work, so that will count for something come sale time.
@@wildandbarefoot believe it or not they had it full of fluid film to try and minimize the damage but it just solidified and the air got to it anyway due to holes being drilled in the bulwarks. Luckily I think we have a solution figured out but only time will tell. Def a design flaw that should never be repeated 😂 thanks for your comments 😌
Surprised you had problems with a Dutch built steel boat, they normally know what they are doing.
I looked at one, it used Corten steel, not even complete painted inside, but still good.
I think it’s more owner issues than anything in our case, and design flaws. But the build itself is pretty good
Oh wow I was thinking of building one with corten steel. Please tell me all about it
That's horrible news. I hope taking the galley apart wasn't too painful. Best of luck that you've uncovered the worst of the corrosion. I must admit watching this kind of feels like this scene which will hopefully give you a good laugh: th-cam.com/video/fPZVo5hObkU/w-d-xo.html
Omg that video 😂😂😂 this experience made me say “worst case Ontario” more times than I can count 😂 as long as we are above trailer park boys level I guess we are doing ok 😂😂😂
Cheers guys! It was a terrible design, I can’t see the logic in how the Original designers thought that was a good idea..
my thinking if you haven’t already started, this was 2 months ago.. is to cut them bulwarks off completely obvious lay in new steel for the deck where it needs it, and rebuild the complete Stanchions and safety rail out of Preferably stainless steel, (a bit like Amel) with three gates one either side and one aft, then she should have the structure strength back, (lets be honest, that wasn’t structural anymore anyway) And replace the bulwarks with a nice hardwood through bolted on the new steel stanchions, with full drainage between the deck and timber bulwark’s..
Yeah great Trev you just spent 10k ..
but that would actually be pretty Structural sound, probably better then it ever was, one connected to the pushpit and pullpit.
But Logan i know your seriously capable, but remember she is going to try and Buckle inwards the second you remove the deck or parts of.. so either way you are going to need to take measurements and maybe tack some hooks so you can pull pressure outwardly anywhere there isnt a bulkhead holding her, hopefully something you can adjust easily atleast until that part of the deck is welded back in.. i think my design, will actually work.. but the hassle and cost?
The bulwarks outta timber won’t be mega expensive, but the material costs will..
sailing Avocet, did a really good episode making timber bulwarks.
Again, sorry for the bad news guy’s.
If you can’t understand what i mean you know how to contact me, but I’m not a naval engineer, I believe Luke Quick from the channel Quick Creations is? His building a steel mono aswell he is in our group.. he may have advice?
Thanks Trev! We have done something kind of similar to what you are suggesting that we think will work quite a bit better and stay within our neater budget 😌 it was def a big thinker and we were happy to be changing the design
You have live on it while you work on it. Your supposed to remove ALL of the interior to a bare hull, then it will be much easier to rebuild. Steel sheet is cheaper than marine grade plywood you know? Don’t throw in the towel . You don’t have to replace the interior it’s all bolted to metal tabs all the wood work is easy to remove. Their never is an end in sight until you get to the bare hull, deck works is thin steel put a heater inside the boat a few heaters seal the boat with a tarp and let the heat dryout the wet steel. When you buy a used rusted hulk number one is remove all the interior and then cover up the engine, tanks all come out everything then you have a bare hull inside outside get a camper live on it give up your rental housing live next to your boat, that way you come home from work walk ten feet work on your boat. You will too clear out the entire interior bare hull then continue drying her out you find all the rusted locations and plasma it all out, then you buy steel sheet and plate. Once you get the boat down too a bare hull, that’s when the rebuilding begins. You cannot rebuild a steel boat with the interior wood framing in place . If a rusty metal boat has any rusticals (Titanic), rust through paint. Pin holes then the whole boat must be completely brought down to bare frames and plating further inside wooden fixtures such as bulkheads floors, window dressing port wood paneling the head, the galley, bunks curtains everything tanks the only item at the end left inside the hull will be the engine and girder mounts and possibly the steering gear. When you get too the above point. You will be relieved , further you will find suddenly you have all this space to run plasma welder might welder lighting and so on, this time period is calling the healing process meaning that now you rebuild with new steel. Try and buy a plasma cutter with air pump and air built in saves a lot of time and money having to not replace bottles, expensive yes over a 1000.00$ but absolutely worth it, by a Chinese hundred dollar welder, or mig making sure it’s 220 non of that 110 stuff. Order in the new thinner deck sheet, just a few pieces at a time, hull plating for your sailboat is either 10 gauge sides 3/16 bottom decks carlins and so on probably 18 gauge or something. Further as you diss assemble trying find out what it was that rusted your decks and carlins, was no zincs on the hull or electrical corrosion or aluminum with no insulator barrier between it and the steel? Electrical charge sending current through a steel hull and gut the hull in under 6 months. All electrical must be grounded from a steel hull the no contact rule applies insulators are a must in a steel boat. Once you have a bare hull replacing the metal parts start with the hull only at the keel check to see if the keel has lead in it or concrete mixed with steel or non at all depends on the kind of keel you have, the frames in your boat are probably 3/16 angle. It looked to me like your hull is a wine glass hull if so you will need maybe a sheet bender for the plating that’s hard work, if it is a wine glass hull chances are the hull playing in thinner then 12 gauge perhaps 16 as thinner sheet would be used for a wine glass hull or round hull design. Right now your only costs are storage and lights. You will need to Sand Blast the hull when it’s fixed regardless, sand blasting is a nasty kind of business most people pay to have some else blast after the blasting is completed you have four hrs to paint the hull inside and and out with primer coat if you pass this time period rust particals will form on the hull and you will have to re blast it, listen it’s a nasty filthy job requiring a hazmat suit and respirator and it makes a big mess all over and under your boat. Every cent you invest each new weldment of steel increases your boats value by 500.00$ remember that. Do not use foam concealed in steel bad bad bad you only want foam between your cabin bulkheads and the hull and frames reason, metal hulls sweat from condensation sticking foam spray foam to the inside of an epoxied interior hull stops the sweating. Steel is cheap, becarefull removing the wood infrastructure because you will want to re install it saving your self wood costs for a new interior . Note down every piece of wood you remove and its location because if you do not, then it’s like openning up a 1000 piece puzzle not knowing where all the pieces fit. If this helps you any. I once had a friend he was 72 years old he built a new fifty foot gaff rigged cutter he had to loft the frames on a floor of plywood based upon the lofting lines in the drawings , that takes a lot of time and plywood . He went from lofting the frames to a fully welded hull in six months and he did this in the middle of winter by spring his two fifty horse Chinese diesel engines had arrived by end of summer the boat was in the water all he had was his 2000.00 a month pension he lived in a shack next to his boat this was in 1991. Maybe this true story will build your moral and that of your girlfriend she can help as well it’s always nice to watch but the two of you are young and you can take 1/3 off the time with her help passing tools and helping grind the rust off. What my favorite boat building material well after 40 years of messing with all construction methods , simply Plywood with red oak frames, the great thing about steel is no wood dusk. Well must go I have company in my keypad of my iPhone good luck!
Also the easiest to fix. Steel.
I can tell you after spending 2.5 years rebuilding this boat, after having spent 4 months the year before rebuilding an entire fibreglass chain locker and deck head that on a cruising boat, steel is not necessarily easier, and it is guaranteed to need more maintenance.
How much did you pay for it? Sounds like a sunk cost. Carry it and move on to next project.
Do you know which yard built your boat? They deserve to be known and never again get a contract!
They are already out of business 😂 it may very well have been an issue due to actions after it left the boat yard though
🇨🇦 Contact us.. we have a solution! 🇨🇦
This was two months ago so we just finished most of the port side bulwarks, but thank you!
You guys seem so sad.
We were. I think this was the only point that we questioned what we were doing. Luckily this was two months ago and things have gone fairly well since.
cut your losses and sell it for scrap. start with a new fiberglass project.
😂😂😂😂