In Defense of Imagawa Yoshimoto
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 ธ.ค. 2021
- Imagawa Yoshimoto is a complex figure who often gets overshadowed or outrageously misrepresented. In actually, he was a very important Daimyo who's decisions would come to play a heavy role in the shaping of eastern Japan during the Sengoku Jidai. In fact, he may have even been the best choice to restore peace to the nation.
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Sources:
"Tokugawa Ieyasu" by Stephen Turnbull
"Samurai Battles" by Michael Sharp
The Japanese Wiki Corpus: www.japanese-wiki-corpus.org/...
The Samurai Wiki/Archives, which can be still accessed through internet archiving websites.
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Classical art, which in most cases can be considered public domain.
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Imagawa Yoshimoto definitely deserves the nod, but you brushed over his most direct and arguably significant impact on the Sengoku Jidai. Yoshimoto brought about significant economic and civic reforms to the region that brought Totomi and Suruga provinces into an era of prosperity unprecedented during their lengthy history under Imagawa clan rule. This had a direct impact on three major clans surrounding him. Not only did Oda Nobunaga and Tokugawa Ieyasu draw lessons in effective governance and reform from him, but both Ieyasu and Takeda Shingen reaped the benefits from these regions prosperity for years, helping fuel both of their clan's expansions in the East. They became significant economic bases for the two of them, without which both clans would have struggled to keep up with their wealthy Eastern neighbors. Nobunaga meanwhile would enact a number of effective reforms based off the ideas Imagawa Yoshimoto implemented.
@bob bobthebobbobofbobby average compared to what? The top 10 daimyo of the era? There were numerous average daimyo that had no significant impact on the Sengoku Jidai, and countless ones remembered for one or two minor things. Yoshimoto wasn't raised to be a leader or conqueror, he was raised to be a monk and kept out of the picture. That he won a war of succession and controlled one of the most powerful clans during his lifetime already places him above average. He had most of the qualities you look for in a top daimyo and attracted a grand following for good reason, the only area he lacked was in military strategy and that's honestly true for the vast majority of daimyo, it was normal to rely on others for strategy and command on the field. There were only a handful of daimyo who weren't just following their advisors, strategists and field commanders.
@bob bobthebobbobofbobby let me put it this way. He commanded an army estimated to be 35k strong (rumored to be 80-90k if you believe the propaganda they used to intimidate lesser clans, no one knows for sure its true size). Most major battles in medieval Europe were about 10-20k men in total. He attracted to him a huge retinue of famous officers, many of whom became major members of the Tokugawa, Oda, or Takeda clans. In his brief time leading the Imagawa family he not only expanded them to the height of their power, territory, and wealth, but also accomplished more than highly skilled leaders such as Oda Nobuhide, Saito Dosan, Asakura Soken combined. He was the first great daimyo to lead a march on Kyoto that had a realistic chance to put down the rebels and end the era 80 years into the conflict. That he failed should not overshadow the tremendous stature of the man, he was one of the greatest of his time. The impact of his fall was tremendous. I get that doesn't qualify as badass by modern standards but historically speaking he's up there amongst the biggest daimyos in Japan. There was nothing average about this guy, he just falls short of lasting greatness.
@bob bobthebobbobofbobby the strategy he employed is not the problem. Nor was the tactics at Okehazama in any way related to changes in warfare in Japan at the time, those changes came later. You're only viewing this in a very narrow perspective of victory makes right, which is half the reason this video was made to broaden perspectives. Yoshimoto didn't lose at Okehazama because he employed some improper out of date strategy and numbers weren't a factor in his defeat. Nobunaga made a brilliant gambit, unrelated to firearms or any new European ideas of warfare, caught him off guard. In the actual fighting that ensued Nobunaga's forces outnumbered and outclassed Yoshimoto, because the battle of Okehazama is a far larger, sprawling affair than people today realize. There were valid reasons behind Yoshimoto's strategy and frankly the greatest of military geniuses wouldn't have predicted Nobunaga's move there, they could only be better prepared for things going wrong. If all you can see out of the man is one unfortunate defeat then so be it, but the man accomplished far more than you or I will ever in our lifetime, and he did so in a tragically short span of time.
What kind of economic and civil reforms if you don't mind me asking?
@bob bobthebobbobofbobby maybe in that part of Japan. Mori Motonari and the Shimazu clan were already doing this way before Okehazama.
His biggest contribution was supporting Takeda Harinobu, he saw potential of that young man already even though Harunobu dad saw otherwise and wanted to disinherit him. Also as many would have said, his death might be unlucky (or pure luck from Nobunaga side) as he miscalculated that Nobunaga would do a daring raid against his camp. Although someone mentioned that Nobunaga had ninjas who gave him important intel like it was about to rain and where Yoshimoto camp was.
Nobunaga say thanks for the nice sword.
Also forgot to mention about that sword, Something I learned from one of Nobunaga Ambition game, Takeda Nobutora actually gave Yoshimoto a pretty nice Samonji sword as a proof of alliance, which he later probably used to defend himself when he was attacked by the two samurai during Okehazama and cutting one of their finger and stabbing one of them in the leg. Well after he was killed his sword end up in the hands of Nobunaga that he took as his personal sword.
In Samurai Warriors games from 1-4, Imagawa Yoshimoto is the pompous buffoon with a fetish for kemari who got curb stomped by Oda Nobunaga at Okehazama, although in Samurai Warriors 5, Koei revamped Yoshimoto big time, ditching his foppish demeanor and make him into a powerful lord and a major challenge for Nobunaga’s rise to greatness (somehow, it has been hinted that the previous incarnation of Yoshimoto in the games is not really a buffoon but a dangerous individual who conceals his imposing presence by being a pompous twit, as shown in the Tokugawa’s version of the Battle of Okehazama in Samurai Warriors 4)
In the strategy games "nobunagas ambition" they do him justice. Hes seriously one of the easiest daimyo to beat the game with. He has a strong force with fruitful lands. And if you take out nobunaga early you get all the oda's fruitful lands and officers. It's great.
Also, in Warriors Orochi 4 Naomasa Li lures Imagawa by lying that he wants to play kemari, but once Imagawa discovers the truth he adopts a menacing slow tone. At the end of the battle he returns to his "buffoon" persona, and Naomasa questions if he was seeing an illusion.
th-cam.com/video/FTWlpg8TrJc/w-d-xo.html
He’s a football hooligan ? Lol
Will there be a video on "In Defense of Ishida Mitsunari"?
Oh yes, and Mitsuhide
@@TheShogunate What about Takeda Katsuyori?
"In defense of Sue Harukata" also looks cool
@@Gian_Galeazzo_Ciano Even at face value I’d like to believe Katsuyori did not have much of a good reason for his actions outside of pride in his cavalry and in his officers who he thought wouldn’t betray him. His veteran officers tried to dissuade him on many occasions too, making his actions a bit more reckless
@@TheShogunate May I also suggest Shigazane Date.
IMO, one of the bravest Samurai of the era who deserves more love.
Yoru video made me want to replay Nobunaga's Ambition Taishi, but playing as the Imagawa!
Hell yeah!!
They're the only ones i have trouble conquering. Somehow they have an endless troop supply it seems.
Yoshimoto was definitely (in my opinion) more of a politician than a general. Not really a problem but definitely something that needs to be remembered; hence why he relied on his generals such as Sessai Taigen, Motonobu Okabe and Yasutomo Asahina.
"W-what will the people call me after I am dead? 'The fool who let down his guard?' 'The guy who made Nobunaga look good?' No! None of that is true! Luck just wasn't on my side! I am the greatest daimyo of this era, Imagawa Yoshimo-" Nobunaga no shinobi
Oh finally found someone who knows this anime hahaha
If there's one thing I learned about our culture, it is that we tend to revere underdogs and the honorably vanquished almost to a fault. Unfortunately, Imagawa Yoshimoto was on the wrong side of this perspective as Oda Nobunaga was clearly the underdog up to this point. I've read that he has done great things for his people but he was simply a victim of a historical juggernaut with a huge cultural following. I'm glad that this video can now allow us to see the war in his perspective.
Your history is full of savages trying to wipe out each other.
Which is wacky! I don't care for most underdogs! Rebels stink.
I'm glad that Koei changed how they portray Yoshimoto in SW5. While he keeps the makeup, he becomes much more imposing and threatening than he previously was.
nioh 2 actually does a great job making him actually seem threatening too
I can't tell how happy I am, that more and more people are acknowledging that Yoshimoto was in fact a very capable daimyo.
Nioh 2 was the first time I saw him being portrayed as competent instead of a joke and his death is handled very respectfully.
Heck he was even voiced by Ryusei Nakao, who's known for being the Japanese Seiyu/voice actor of Frieza/Freezer (Dragonball Z).
They were all savages.
I do think that samurai warriors 5’s portrayal isn’t entirely accurate either since he certainly wasn’t a samurai tank. He was a smart and capable ruler who left military affairs to people who knew better.
@@puchy110 But it’s a much better portrayal than what the older Samurai Warriors games portrayed him as. Much better to be a god of battle than a bumbling moron.
@@puchy110 in samurai warriors 2 he was a funny puffy man in theatrical make up playing ball
His portrayal in SW5 is probably my favorite character in the game. So regal and badass. A complete 180 from his portrayals in the rest of the series
this guy is so good at story telling, well done as usual man!
So glad to see you take on the bizarrely widespread character assassination of Yoshimoto. I was always taken aback by the disparity between the daimyo I read about in history books and the incompetent idiot found in popular media
I like your channel. Well spoken
SWI-4 YOSHIMOTO: OH NO KIMARI TIME INTERRUPTED.
CHAD SW5 YOSHIMOTO: I'LL CRUSH MY ENEMIES LIKE INSECT'S
Nioh 2 Yoshimoto: I will slice you like raw fish.
What a way to end the year and this is most welcome.
It seems some Tokugawa Shoguns took the childhood name of Ieyasu such as his own grandson, Iemitsu.
YEA! Love the new years video! Thanks Shogunate, have a great 2022!
This was super duper educational!!!! Thanks The Shogunate!
I would use Europa Universalis 4 or Crusader Kings character skills to describe Yoshimoto Imagawa. He was an example of a ruler who had pretty high administrative skill and diplomatic skill values while his military skill value was pretty low. He also had many talented vassals under his command. Ultimately his low military skills and bad luck cost him his life at Okehazama.
He forgot to pick military ideas group and get very bad dice roll.
Yuck. You EU/CK/HOI guys make me sick. It's the the way you guys think you're intelligent because you play a spreadsheet simulator
Brilliant man, keep it up!!
This is so convinient, just a few days ago I was jokingly thinking of putting an Imagawa story on the backburner and this video just helps so much.
You have changed my mind. Thank you for all of your hard work Shogunate.
It would be interesting to ponder in alternate universe somewhere,where Yoshimoto succeeded on beating Nobunaga. Knowing his diplomatic foresight,by forging that key triumvirate alliance with Takeda and Hojo, if a more diplomatic savvy men is in charge of overseeing the shogunate instead of a brash self-ambition driven expansionist like Nobunaga present some interesting scenario to think of. Let's say Yoshimoto won at Okehazama,The resistance left for Yoshimoto on his march to Kyoto probably just the Saito, Rokakku and Miyoshi I suppose, Owari will probably be given to Nobunaga's younger brother,Nobukatsu,whom is obviously more mild mannered and more easy to control than Nobunaga. Owari secured,Mino and the Saito clan might be more tricky. Knowing how traditionalist Yoshimoto is,he probably will try to oust the Saito by helping the Toki clan to regain control of the province. Mino cleared,Yoshimoto could move into Omi province by promising he would help the Azai to get rid the Rokakku due south of Omi province,whom at that point was a constant thorn on the Azai side while also getting rid of the Rokakku that have the same goal as him: to control the shogunate. This move of helping the Azai also could get Yoshimoto into the good grace of the Asakura,longtime ally of the Azai. I could totally see Yoshimoto and Yoshikage Asakura being on the same page in many matter,I mean,they both got their Yoshi name from the shogun,that would break the ice immediately lol. His final hurdle probably the Miyoshi and again with his political savvyness could just incite an inner civil war within the Miyoshi clan whom are so famously fractured. And voila,the Shogunate is in his grasp 😆
Hell, imagine Yoshimoto taking up a defeated Oda Nobunaga under his wing and being something of a replacement for Sessai Taigen. The East could steamroll Kyoto and the rest of Japan in record time.
I am so glad he became fierce and formidable in SW5.
Still hate the hammer tho
These are great! Love the personal stories. Happy New Year! :)
Since SW5 Rebooted him as a 7 or 8-foot tall Monster, They can bring Ujizane(His Son) as a Kemari playing Buffon.
素晴らしき動画、ありがたい
Finally, he is my favorite daimyo in the sengoku jidai. Thank you for the video he is very underrated
If you play ROBLOX join me!
Excellent and insightful vid. You succeeded in painting a clearer picture of a figure I had held in fairly low esteem. I now seem Yoshimoto Imagawa in a different light.
Thank you for an interesting and informative video on a figure often portrayed poorly. Would have been interesting had he succeeded in reaching Kyoto. Happy New Years to you!
This thing about Yoshimoto and Imagawa clan is extremely underrated...thanks for this nice video:)
Awesome video!
Imagawa Yoshimoto was literally treated as a clown in the Samurai Warrior games (with possibly the worse moveset in 1 and 2) until 5. It's kind of really demening.
ALL BECAUSE of ONE BATTLE. Like come on.
In Samurai Warriors 2 he's just built differently.
I would like to call this the Yu Jin effect or something along the lines of that. Basically, a storied and capable veteran or general who achieved success after success for the most better part of their careers, earning accolades and praises from their peers. Then in one unfortunate battle, sometimes with circumstances out of their control, they lose one battle and then history makes fools out of them. I use Yu Jin as an example because he served Cao Cao valiantly for 20 years before Fan Castle when the flash flood that happened cut him off from Cao Ren and he was forced to surrender to save the lives of his men. Cao Xiu and Ma Su are some other good examples as well.
@@MAegcuru DW still traer yu jin better than yoshimoto tho, he's literal clow in sw 1-4. Glad 5 made him better
@@MAegcuruYu Jin got redeemed in DW as a tough badass disciplinary sherrif who punishes those who disobey the law.
In 9, he asked to spare his men, but he wasn't made a coward. I. 8XL tho, he basically straight up strolls in like he owns the place and assume command of the Fan Castle defense
But yes, Ma Su, Cao Xiu and Cao Zhen are also examples too.
Really loved this video. Makes me want to play more as Yoshimoto in SW5.
I think that Yoshimoto influenced Ieyasu a great deal and despite him being a captive, Ieyasu was well treated as he was a political hostage, he even received his "coming of age" ceremony whilst under the influence of the Imagawa family. Although Ieyasu was a remarkable character, I do not think he would have been the great leader, tactician and statesman he did without the influence of Yoshitomo. "History isn't the work of man" and nor is a person the product of only themselves.
On the other hand because of his early exposure to Yoshimoto's influence, Tokugawa Ieyasu took up the mantle and ended the Sengoku period with much of the same strategy and wisdom that made the former so successful. Yoshimoto walked so Tokugawa could run.
@@MarvinT0606 Possibly, but personally, I do not think Yoshitomo could have become Shogun and if he did he would have not been able to keep the Daimyo in good order. I don't think he had the strength of personality for it.
@@TheOnlyCathyCat Yoshimoto was content with keeping the peace from behind the scenes, controlling one of the Ashikagas. This strategy is not without precedent as this was what the Old Hojo clan did to control the Minamoto Shoguns. Tokugawa on the other hand could (and did) take the wheel himself because he had the right bloodline.
@@MarvinT0606 ...Yoshitomo wouldn't have been able to control a Shogun either, imho, and though one may puppet a Shogun its not like it is a secret in the politic, the Shogun is the pawn, not the winning piece. Which is exactly the conclusion Nobunaga came to.
please make a myth-busting series of videos like this!
One of my favorite things about your vids are the seeing all the old samurai warriors games and NA games! Brings back all the nostalgia and makes me go back to replay them every now and then! I really like the fact that you focus on the main characters and the lesser known of the era! Maybe Yoshikiyo Murakami vid someday?? :D Keep up the grind sir!
Never thought I’d see that title for a video!!!
Great video
Thanks man!!
Another fine video that gives a very detailed explanation of Imagawa Yoshimoto's pro's and cons. If things had gone differently who can say what would happened. The only thing that was certain, is Japan's development would have been very different.
These videos are excellent by the way....
Great work on the video: I think you should definitely create a sort of "history of shikoku" I feel when people talk about samurai they always look the other way, and there's a lot of interesting history there. From the hosokawa reign in the onin war, the chosokabe unification, the toyotomi invasion, Motochicka and his story, and then shikoku being given to the yamauchi. I think there's some stuff that needs clarifying, since sengoku basara, samurai warriors, shogun 2, and games like that have characterized not only Motochika but all the other clans and samurai family's of that island.
happy new years
Yoshimoto's grandfather was also killed in a surprise attack on the battlefield.
Thank you for making this video. It is really nice to see a different way of narrating the story of Imagawa Yoshimoto. Although it is a minor thing I should say that in the video the early name of Tokugawa Ieyasu written as Matsudaira Motonobu but his name at that time is Matsudaira Motoyasu not Motonobu.
There's an old trope in storytelling: the greatness of a hero is defined by his enemies. Think of Batman and the Joker. The Avengers and Thanos. Scipio Africanus and Hannibal. Imagawa Yoshimoto doesn't rise to this level. His defeat is more of a coming-of-age victory of Oda Nobunaga than a defining conflict. This is no Takeda Shingen vs Uesugi Kenshin. History can be brutal. And for all his dreams, abilities and potential, Imagawa Yoshimoto will always be a footnote in another man's story.
Good video 👍🏻
In Nioh 2 Imagawa Yoshimoto is portrayed as an great archer, and the lore of his armor set states that his skill with the bow earned him the title "Tokaido's greatest archer". I have been trying to figure out if that is actually true, but I can't find any mention of his skill with the bow outside the game. Is it just something the game just made up, or is there some merit behind it?
Archery contests in that time largely occurred within temples, and Buddhists monks who turned archery practice into a religious practice (a skill useful for meditation purposes) were often the best at these contests. Yoshimoto ofc was raised in a monastery for a significant portion of his life, it is quite likely he won a few archery contests in his time. Whether this was just a flowery title he earned or if he put it to effective use on the battlefield is another question.
He doesn’t get enough credit and is often looked down upon due to his defeat at Okehazama, but he was actually a pretty skilled and shrewd daimyo that was excellent at domestics. Hate how he’s often depicted as a joke in some fiction. Nobunaga’s Ambition: Sphere of Influence Ascension portrays him very well imo.
The imagawa is one of my favorite clans I find he parallels to yuan shao in the three kingdoms period
Thank you for this, The Imagawa Clan are often overlooked.
Largely over-Shadowed by The Oda,
Your last sentence about recovering his body really illustrates a lot.
It more hard to understand without subtitles for me, but still thanks for the video
The biggest oversight of Yoshimoto is that he wasn't using ninjas and Buddhist monks, given the excellency of him utilizing info and politics to his advantage. He could've been unstoppable if he had shadow military and religious orgs at his disposal, while his generals lead the powerful army.
"Get the next Sengoku Jidai out!", the masses screamed.
Can you make a video regarding the movie Samurai Commando? I know it’s not very popular but I find it amusing. Thanks a lot. I’ve been an avid fan of your samurai contents since 10K subscribers. So happy that you’re getting more and more subscribers and getting known for the your great contents about samurais and History of Japan. More power to your channel.
Muito bom 🇧🇷✌🏻
I definitely this is such a welcome change especially surrounding such a topic as many historical figures from Feudal Japan have been portrayed quite differently in popular media and source material to the point where the general public accept this as well.
For example, Sanada Nobushige never used the name "Yukimura" when he was alive and engaged in battle against the Tokugawa Bakufu forces along with other Daimyo during the Siege of Osaka.
There is never any evidence but of course, he is known by this name more than his actual name, Nobushige.
Also a quick thought just occurred.
I think Tokugawa ieyasu can owe his rise to power to learning from many figures who were quite prominent before he was.
The likes of Takeda Shingen, Imagawa Yoshimoto, Oda Nobunaga and his predecessor, Toyotomi Hideyoshi.
I think it can be argued that he learnt a great deal from all these men, both good and bad from governance to warfare as well, not to mention how he benefited greatly from the downfall of the Takeda, Imagawa and Hojo in the space of 25 years.
Yes, all good points on Tokugawa except the Hojo downfall, that one actually cost him a great deal. Not only was Tokugawa an ally of the Hojo with a mutual reliance for support, but also in an interesting ploy by Toyotomi to weaken Tokugawa he was forced to relocate from his original territories (Mikawa + former Imagawa and Takeda lands) into the now destabilized Hojo territory. This is actually part of where Ieyasu's own brilliance shines through that he not only successfully reestablished himself and stabilized the region also used this as a way to distance himself from Toyotomi and the ill fated invasion of Korea. Thus he turned the tables on what really should have been a brilliant ploy by Hideyoshi.
@@FShani I seemed to have forgot that the Hojo especially after the Tensho-jingo conflict were in close relation to Ieyasu considering ieyasus daughter married Ujinao and thus they became family.
The Hojo lands didn't necessarily mean that ieyasu would be at an advantage from the beginning. it is considered that this change of territories caused him distress, because he lost Mikawa to which he had been firmly related, and because in addition, there were disquieting movements in the Kanto region of that time, for example, by remaining retainers of the Hojo clan. Furthermore, the Hojo clan employed a tax system of shiko-rokumin (40% of the rice crop produced yearly was collected as a tax, and the remaining 60% became farmers' income), which was extremely favorable for farmers of that time, and Ieyasu could not raise the tax rate thoughtlessly either. Therefore, an increase in the real income corresponding to that in the amount of rice crop could not be expected. However, Ieyasu moved to the Kanto region according to Hideyoshi's order and came to reside in Edo.
He could've chosen to govern from Odawara but he chose Edo instead which was a fishing village at the time even if it put him as far away from the capital as possible and far from politics I suppose. He also placed powerful retainers in important branch castles, compotent retainers such as Okubo Nagayasu, Ina Tadatsugu, Hasegawa Nagatsuna, Hikosaka Motomasa, Mukai Masatsuna, Naruse Masakazu and Kusakabe Sadayoshi thus it allowed ieyasu to govern the Kanto with great development.
Actually, ieyasu wasn't the only Daimyo exempted from taking part in the Bunroku-Keicho war, others were as well plus those who didn't take part were ordered to be stationed at Nagoya-Hizen which was the castle used for the invasion into the Korean peninsula.
Even ieyasu himself urged Ujimasa to pledge allegiance to Hideyoshi so clearly he did hold their alliance to such a level of respect and diplomacy.
@@thedragonofechigo7878 Yes, reestablishing order in Kanto while avoiding pitfalls both from former Hojo retainers and still powerful neighboring clans was a major balancing act. Not to mention lands and castles directly damaged by Hideyoshi's conquest. Flooding of regions and fires required a period of recovery, indeed raising taxes while the repairs and recovery were ongoing would only hurt his own powerbase in the long run.
The selection of Edo over Odawara was very purposeful, to distance himself both from Hideyoshi and from the former Hojo regional capital. Edos conversion into a powerful and profitable capital also doubled as a sign of his investment in the wellbeing of his new subjects and an intent to control trade and economic progress.
Yeah, Hideyoshi couldn't possibly bring everyone with him to Korean, but it's my personal belief (based in part on statements from Hideyoshi and my own theories regarding his rise to power) that Hideyoshi viewed the invasion of Korea and ultimately China not as a needed conquest, but as a tool of control to eliminate and distract rivals. I have no doubt he really wanted to order Ieyasu to Korea but Ieyasu outplayed him in that regard, and Hideyoshi had to be content with hoping Ieyasu efforts in Kanto would fail.
@@FShani I actually I appreciate that theory, I don't think the invasion of Korea and China were a neccesity but perhaps Hideyoshi did use the war to put all opposition to his power at an disadvantage.
Perhaps he did want to really send ieyasu to Korea in hopes that he may die there or deplete his army and resources since it was such an expenditure for many Daimyo.
Ieyasu did probably outplay Hideyoshi but also because Hideyoshi did not want to go to war against him yet again due to how it may upset peace in the nation.
I mean, as bold as the invasion, perhaps Hideyoshi knew it was going to be a long struggle where his forces would begin to falter at some point but if this wars true purpose was to eliminate and distract rivals.
He only had ieyasu to really worry about and perhaps Masamune as well seeing as he never was on the council of elders but still held ambition to take rule of the country if the opportunity came.
@@thedragonofechigo7878 ah I suppose I put that in a misleading way. Hideyoshi wasn't trying to take out specific rivals, Hideyoshi great fear was that he didn't know where the next Toyotomi Hideyoshi, the next Matsunaga Hisahide, or Akechi Mitsuhide was coming from. Rather than trying to kill his rivals he was trying to burn them out on further conquests and bankrupt them. At the same time he's satisfying the desire for glory of lesser warriors and giving them a common enemy while he solidified his rule and dynasty, knowing he needed to buy time for his family to firmly root themselves in Imperial politics.
I believe if his goal truly was to win the war and conquer China and Korea he would have spent more time building up the navy so it could confront the Korean navy. There was no realistic chance of conquering the mainland if he couldn't establish solid supply lines and reinforcements while dancing around one of the strongest navies in the hemisphere.
This video is more lit then the joestar mansion keep the good work up man
In the anime "The Ambition of Oda Nobuna," Yoshimoto (aside from being portrayed as a girl, as most of the cast) was shown as an arrogant noble who wouldn't hesitate to throw her vassals in the thick of the fighting if it meant keeping her own army intact, Matsudaira Motoyasu included. Not sure if the real life Yoshimoto acted this way, but judging by his portrayal in Samurai Warriors 5, whatever arrogance he has may be justified by his imposing stature.
Nice
Cool
かなり優秀なのに一回の負け戦で評価が下がっちゃうのって残念だよな
Thank you very much for this. I have always wondered why I so often see him presented as a clown, yet also an overwhelming threat to Oda. And if he really was both, then how could he manage to be an invading force without worrying about other fronts. I just never got around to reading up more on him and this answered all of my questions and then some and I see now his foppish depiction is mostly undeserved
Yoshimoto is a very capable daimyo. Alas, the mandate of heavens doesn't favor him. Nobunaga victory against Yoshimoto was truly a miracle that's been favored by the heavens.
Do tokugawa ieayasu!
Currently playing as Imagawa in NA:SOI and waiting for one of my officer's son, Oda Nobunaga to be old enough to serve as one of my generals.
Now I need a video for my man Akechi Mitsuhide
would love for this to become a series would be so epic
Finally my Imagawa is finally spoken about!!!
Any idea if there's ever gonna be a dedicated video on the Sanada?
A very, very interesting video. He definetly gets an undeserved reputation based on a single defeat. I enjoyed learning more about him!
I´m very curious about another person I also see depicted as a joke in popular media. Hidetada Tokugawa, Ieyasu´s son. I assume is mostly for his late arrival at sekigahara after being tied down by the Sanada, that could have costed his father victory had things played differently at the battle. But I wonder... How much of this is his fault and how competent (or incompetent) was he the rest of his life, specially as shogun? He seemed to have disagreed with his father heavily in how to deal with the Toyotomi survivors and suppressed christiniaty harshly later in his live. But does he have some redeeming qualities or he simply was lucky to mantain order and continue what would be a long lasting dynasty purely on his father´s merits?
I would love to see your opinion on this.
If Ieyasu truly saw no merit in him he would have stripped him of his position as heir. Ieyasu had plenty of sons, grandsons ad nephews he could have selected. It's also worth noting that while Sanada did embarrass Hidetada by occupying his forces with only a small garrison, similar scenes were occurring in other parts of Japan. Just as many Western army forces were held out of Sekigahara by equally small Eastern garrisons putting up heroic defenses. In fact there were a lot of battles, sieges, and standoffs occurring on other fronts while Sekigahara was going on.
You mentioned not blaming him for being surprised at Okehazama. While I kinda want to agree with that, there's an old military maxim that perfectly applies there: "There is no excuse for being surprised."
That being said he certainly wasn't any doddering fool. I have a feeling Shingen and Ieyasu learned more than a few administration and diplomacy tricks from him.
One thing screwed him over, and that was the loss of his strategist, Taigen Sessai. If he didn't die, Yoshimoto would've had a real chance of destroying everything in his path. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't care.
It is a possibility but this is just another variable.
Ultimately the failure at Okehazama falls to a failure of communication within the Imagawa ranks. The Imagawa vanguard did not know Oda forces had mobilized, Imagawa's elites in his headquarters thought the vanguard had been decimated, Imagawa reinforcements did not receive the call for aid from Yoshimoto's camp, and after his death his remaining forces did not know who was now in charge and could not organize a retaliation.
While it's possible Sessai could have organized their forces in a better manner to deal with potential problems, by striking Yoshimoto's headquarters directly Nobunaga effectively severed communications and the chain of command. It is certainly plausible this scenario would have played out the exact same way with Sessai in command, he had no reason to be particularly cautious of Oda Nobunaga. It's not like the Imagawa clan lacked other effective commanders and officers in Sessai's absence, but it's just one of those things that we can never truly know.
Katana "Samonji" owned by Yoshimoto Imagawa. After Yoshimoto died in the war, Nobunaga became the owner. After that, Hideyoshi → Ieyasu became the owner.
I have been learning japanese and japanese history from many days i know many much of it
This is quite similar to a manga I read: "path of the assassin", in which Yoshimoto's death was so sad.
The only What If I remember about Imagawa Yoshimoto was the one where he gets to the Capital in Samurai Warriors Chronicles 3. And as of now I'm extremely curious about how that What If Would play out if Samurai Warriors 5 Yoshimoto was there.
The basic two big battles of the What If are: The Imagawa now in control of the Capital have to fight the Takeda and Uesugi..for some reason as they team up in revolt against the Imagawa. And Ieyasu along with the Azai Clan attempts a coup against Yoshimoto either being the Shogun or working with him.
That's the only big 'Imagawa Wins' Scenario I remember and I don't even know how practical it is.
I think the next video The Shogunate should do is a video on oni.
Alexander would not be so great if he were to be judged solely on his defeats in and eventual retreat from India. Like you , I question if Yoshimoto meant to take the office of shogun for himself. I tend to think that he probably sought national power the same way the Hosokawa and then the Miyoshi did, by being the ones controlling the office and personage of the shogun rather than being the shogun themselves. This would have been "the norm" for that period. It is also not a shock with Yoshimoto's interest in Kyoto although he have have shown it more than others before him. His ancestor, Iamagawa Sadayo (Ryoushun) was one of the major advocates of what was/is called bunburyoudou 文武両道. Which translates as 2 paths of the literary and military. Basically, the idea of a cultured warrior (although it is a bit more complex).
Imagawa Yoshimoto is my favorite sengoku Daimyo
Should do a video on if his his generals Motonbu Okabe!!.
Oh I plan on it!! Motonobu is one of my all time favorites!!!
Can you do a video about yokai's
I think the best representation of Imagawa Yoshimoto is from the game Nioh 2, you should look it up. In fact, I think you'd fall in love with the Nioh series.
Yoshimoto is a great leader he carried the clan on his own with sessai taigen after he died I mean we see exactly what happened to the clan afterwards
Which makes me think if let’s say ujizane or someone else is capable enough to lead after yoshimoto death would that make a difference
just like how I always think after nobunaga died if his heir nobutada survived could the oda still reign and hideyoshi might not rise?
It's interesting What if Scenario with Yoshimoto and what the Sengoku era would have looked like if he hadn't been killed at Okehazama, if he and his forces made it to Kyoto? How would he have handled all the politics there? The clans in the region like The Miyoshi, Asakura, Mori, the Ikkō-ikki or Hisahide Matsunaga? The Jesuits and spreading muskets that Nobunaga innovated with during this own reign. What may have happened after he died, would his son and officials, generals held their ground or would have someone arisen to take over like Hideyoshi did with the Oda clan after Nobunaga died at Honnaji, perhaps Tokugawa himself may have found his way to Yoshimoto's place like he eventually did in rl. Would the three-way alliance held up after Shingen's death or Ujiyasu's? These are very interesting things to spectate on and creates fascinating alternative history timelines etc.
You make great points.... The march on Kyoto was not a bad idea, Yoshimoto had the misfortune of running into a true visionary. And Yoshimoto had administered his lands well... Sadly his heir (Ujizane) was not cut out to be a daimyo
Well that was interesting although I knew a lot of this through playing Nobunaga's ambition it does make u think about what would have happened if he had beaten the Oda at Okehazama suffice to say it would not have been as interesting for me being an Oda and Tokugawa fan, would have been quite interesting the triple threat of Imagawa, Takeda, Hojo bullying everyone into submission honestly I like what actually happened as it's more fun, still, Yoshimoto was a powerful daimyo even if he wasn't a skilled warrior.
Do justice to Nagamasa Azai please. He is so underappreciated.
This was very interesting, most people and media tend to portray him as just the guy (or girl, and even a cat in some cases, anime is certainly diverse) that lost to a severely undermanned upstart and a monkey. His imperial interests are also quite curious, wasn't aware of his political tactics and acumen.
I think it's worth noting that Nobunaga didn't really have any grand plan when choosing to attack Yoshimoto's camp, infact he didn't even realize it was his camp until spotting him. History could've easily gone quite differently if Yoshimoto hadn't died that night.
Further, you imply that the Imagawa broke down as soon as Yoshimoto fell and the campaign retreated from Oda land, but that wasn't the case. Infact the Takeda and Hojo still honored the Tripartite alliance even after his death. The only one who did start to break off was Matsudaira Motonobu, and he couldn't fully rebel until years later, when it became obvious that Imagawa influence couldn't be sustained under Yoshimoto's son and Shingen allied with him briefly to help him oust his former masters.
There is a daimyo in the west called Ouchi Yoshitaka who is sometimes compared to Imagawa Yoshimoto in the east, do you know?
He practically set up Tokugawa's path towards power.
The Imagawa had a significant previous relationship with the Hojo (they helped the Hojos really launch off in the generation before Yoshimoto), meanwhile they took the Kuni (provnice) of Totomi from the Shiba clan (which was also the Shugo of Owari, the Oda's home province.) so Yoshimoto mostly just took the logical path.
Previous relations don't matter too much in the Sengoku Jidai as they were in almost every case back and forth, as it was with Imagawa and Hojo. While the Shiba had taken Totomi from Imagawa, by the time Yoshimoto's grandfather retook the province it was long since lost to the Shiba clan held by the Katsumada and Yokota clans. And that conflict was 85 years before Okehazama, former allies and enemies frequently shifted during those years.
Anyhow marching west was the logical decision to securing Kyoto the ultimate goal of the era, but doing so while powerful rivals remained to the East put a real timer on Imagawa's march, which definitely had some impact on the strategy they employed at Okehazama.
He was probably the best politician of this era
Don't relie on the notification bell.. TH-cam needs to get thevshit together
So in short, it's not that Yoshimoto sucked, it's that Nobunaga just was so much cooler.
Honestly, the Nioh 2 portrayal is probably the best one I've seen. They even kept his blackened teeth.
YES IT IS I THE GREAT IMAGAWA YOSHIMOTO!!! LETS GOOOOO
In defense of Takeda Katsuyori please
Yoshimoto had one of the best character redesigns in Samurai Warriors 5. In past games he was more of a joke character. In 5 he finally gets proper respect and is shown as a powerful and true threat.
Being remembered as a buffoon just because he was beaten by Oda Nobunaga is unfair. So first of all, Imagawa Yoshimoto had several accomplishments done before the battle of Okehazama, so even if his defeat was entirely his fault, it shouldn't overshadow his life. Even if you go with the "classical" numbers and assume he had 40K soldiers at the battle (probably not correct but not logistically impossible), Nobunaga would later go on to win many victories and prove himself a superb tactician. Few serious historians look at Gaius Julius Caesar's enemies and be like "Yeah that guy was an idiot for losing this battle to Caesar" because that's a rather high standard. Some do call Pharnaces a bit tactically challenged but not for losing at Zela at all, but because he decided to abandon the high ground, go into a valley, and charge up a slight incline. Plus Yoshimoto had a huge disadvantage during the ambush. Yoshimoto's night sentries didn't alert him to an ambush, so Nobunaga had a huge advantage. Very few commanders would be able to win a battle if the first time they know a battle is happening was the sound of men five minutes away from coming into his tent to kill him. Most victims of ambushes at least know they're in a fight when it begins even if they don't know where the attack is coming from, Yoshimoto didn't even get that chance. He had to lead personally to show his allies the Imagawa clan was strong, so his biggest mistake was not leading the army personally or being unable to do anything once he realized he was fighting, but whoever he picked to guard the camp at night was clearly inadequate, forget an ambush from the Oda the night sentries probably couldn't even stop a common thief.
There are a lot of common misconceptions about the battle of Okehazama that lead to a skewed view of Yoshimoto's defeat. First, while his total forces vastly outnumbered the Oda (estimated at 35k vs 5k), the battle was a huge, sprawling affair with Imagawa detachments deployed all over attacking separate Oda and anti-Imagawa garrisons. In the actual fighting that took place between Nobunaga and Yoshimoto the Oda forces actually outnumbered the Imagawa defenders. Not only that but the Oda troops were more experienced as well having campaigned a ton in the months leading up to the battle.
Secondly, Yoshimoto wasn't completely blindsided by the attack, the story of him stepping out of his tent to be beheaded by Oda samurai is largely considered a fabrication. Oda forces ambushed a detachment of the vanguard and routed them nearly in front of Yoshimoto's headquarters. Now Nobunaga's men had managed to creep that close due to the cover of forrest and rain, but the vanguard detachment they defeated didn't just collapse instantly it put up a fight. The problem for the Imagawa HQ forces was that they didn't know what was going on elsewhere on the battlefield. Seeing some of the vanguard fall right in front of them and the Oda main forces descending on them convinced much of the camp that the vanguard had already fallen and the field had been lost. Now it's also likely that the Imagawa troops judgement was impaired by drinking and resting within the camp, but either way they hastily assembled a battleline to confront what they saw as a superior force (in every aspect).
Anyhow you're not wrong that Yoshimoto is unfairly judged for this defeat alone, but really the credit goes to the Oda side for a brilliant (and fortuitous) attack on their HQ. Yoshimoto did attempt to rally his forces and put up a fight but its one he could not win without reinforcements, and unfortunately they simply did not make it.