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Kia Sorento Crank Gear & Harmonic Pulley Fix II
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 ธ.ค. 2014
- I too have had the 2004 KIA Sorrento crank shaft bolt break twice. Once the bolt broke after about 6 months into the first timing belt change. I took it to the dealer and they were going to charge me $150 to see if it was broken, and then refund me the money when they fix it. It was 30 days from the recall cutoff. The bolt partially came out then seized in the crank shaft. Upon removal the bolt then snapped off. I then drilled out the center, put in an extractor and the extractor snapped off. I then tapped out the bolt with a smaller tap then went to the same size as the bolt thread tap. I replaced the bolt with a new bolt. Three years later it broke again. This time I used the centering jig from [url]brokencrankshaf...[/url] this made it much easier drilling out the center of the bolt. I heated the bolt to remove any lock tight and the bolt came right out with an extractor. I then drilled out the crank shaft and put in a 5/8 grade 8 bolt with a "spider' type lock washer and lock tight. The fix seems to be working great. I think the "Heavy Headed" original bolt is a very bad design, as the thick massive bolt head is actually longer then the bolt, causing centrifugal forces that aren't needed. The standard grade 8 bolt, as used on most crank shafts, seems to work great. I also had to drill out the new harmonic balancer and washer to accommodate the larger 5/8's bolt. I will try the softer belt tighten technique too. The fact that the harmonic balancer almost sits flush on the end of the crank shaft with no woodruff key (just a roll pin) seems to be a bad design too (have not ever seen this done). This 2004 Sorrento now has 160K on it. Very strong engine, still has a drinking problem.
Update:
I have had the crank shaft bolt break 2x and unscrew 2x. I have learned a lot. Taped out the crank shaft to receive a larger grade 8 bolt. As well as made the hole larger on the washer and Harmonic balancer pulley. Put a star lock washer on it. Torqued to 130lb with lock tight RED. A year later it loosened and sheared the timing gear pin (this is much better then shearing off inside the crank shaft like before). Bought another harmonic balancer and crank timing gear. This time I'm putting on a very heavy duty grade 8 lock washer and lock tight RED & 130lbs torque. Also put in 2 more pins in the timing gear at my local machine shop see attached pictures. So this gives it a total of three pins between the crank shaft timing gear and the harmonic balancer.
I spoke to the local Kia parts dealer and he said this engine is in 2 other Kia's but transverse mounted with no problems. My theory is there is so much weight out there that it pulls itself apart moving up and down from the road. Since there is no woodruff key on the harmonic balancer and it doesn't slide onto the crank shaft (like every other engine on the road) I thought 2 more pins might keep the slipping at bay. The balancer pulleys gotta weigh 15-20lbs and that's a lot of weight spinning out there on one bolt. It's just a bad design that needs help. I'll repost if this doesn't work. I should sell it but it's the kid's college car and other then the "y" in the heater hose and all the plastic covers turning into crayon and the head lights burning out every 6 months, and the drinking problem , , , , , it's been a pretty good car. Mark Peveler702-379-7357 MarkPeveler@cox.net
UPDATE 28OCT14
This fix failed one year out, but the bolt didn't break or cross thread. I will either tap in 3 or 4 flat head screws with hex drive or threaded in studs, then sand blast all compression surfaces. I will cross hatch washer as well. The Sorrento has 188K. It's paid for and I don't want car payments so I'll fix it again. The benefit with the bigger bolt is it didn't break, just lost power steering. Still ran well even though pulley didn't turn.
UPDATE 8DEC14
New Pulley/Harmonic Balance and timing belt gear. Put in 3 Allen cap screws though pulley and into gear. Cap screws sit proud and washer was cut to allow protruding cap screws into washer. Instead of #130 lbs torque I went with #150 lbs torque on the 5/8 Grade 8 bolt. Protruding allen cap head screws should keep any movement between gear and pulley as well as washer sliding. A 6 month torque check will be in order.
Thanks for the video and updates. I am dealing with this problem now with my mother's Kia. She just had the entire timing belt system replaced & I thought it was the mechanic's fault but now I see Kia has a big blame in the problem as well.
Mark,
Just like you I purchased a new Crank Sprocket (timing belt gear) and Harmonic Balancer and dropped it off at a local machine shop. The machine shop drilled and tapped the sprocket and drilled the harmonic balancer so they can be screwed\bolted together with the 3 cap screws exactly as your design. That will add strength and hopefully prevent the roll pin from being sheared off the crank sprocket . I felt that there has to be a way to keep the crank bolt from loosening. Below is what I have done as an added measure to keep that Crank Bolt from loosening.
When you open the hood on the Kia and look down at the Harmonic balancer as it is all together you can see that the head of that crank shaft bolt is just about flush with the face of the harmonic balancer pulley. The key to keeping this entire crank shaft bolt\harmonic balancer nightmare failure from happening in the first place is keeping the crank bolt TIGHT and from ever loosening. If it does loosen just a little then that one small hollow roll pin now has 100% of the engine torque to turn the harmonic balancer that runs all your belts to make your AC, alternator, power steering function. Obviously way to much for that single roll pin! To be honest it is what I call a “Kia epic engineering failure” :-)
I found that on the harmonic balancer pulley there are two holes that give access to the “meat” of the pulley itself. I drilled and tapped at the bottom of those two small access holes on the harmonic balancer pulley. So I can bolt what I call a “socket plate” to it that will NOT allow the crank bolt to loosen. To make this “socket plate” you just need a piece of metal plate and a 22mm socket. I went to a local tool supply store like Harbor Freight and bought a set of sockets with a 22mm in the set. I took the 22mm socket (preferably 6-point )and cut a hole in the metal plate of the outside diameter of the socket. Then welded it into the flat plate. I measured to make sure that when I welded the socket to the plate it fit over the crank shaft bolt and the plate sits flat on the “inner” face of the harmonic balancer. The reason for making sure it is only on the inner face is not to disrupt the “harmonic” hard rubber divider between the inner face and outer face of the pulley. Once you have put everything all back together with 150lb of torque on the crank shaft bolt then fit the socket plate over the crank bolt head then measure and mark on the socket plate face where the tapped holes are on the pulley. Drill those holes into the plate that you just measured and marked with the size bolt you drilled and tapped on the pulley and tighten “socket plate” down with two bolts and lock washers.
One other thing to check when you have the engine torn down is to check to make sure there is no damage done to the timing sensor that sits behind the crank sprocket. If that sensor is damaged just a little from when the “Kia epic crank bolt failure” syndrome took place then you will have problems after its all back together. If you can afford it I would buy a new crank sensor if it looks to be damaged. I think they are under $100
I recommend replacing the water pump and timing belt if it has not been done very recently. Because if you have gone this far you will be kicking yourself if 6 months or 10 thousand miles down the road you find out your water pump is leaking or bad and you have to tear EVERYTHING back out again.
I replaced timing belt, water pump, and the rest of outer belts (AC,power steering,and alternator)…. Because I have no desire to see the front half of that motor again for a long long time!
My description and or instructions are not the best but I hope it will be helpful for anyone trying to fix their Kia. I will email you the pictures I have of the socket plate I made so you can possibly post them or include somehow on your youtube link to help folks out wanting to do what I did. So far the Sorento is rolling down the road rock solid!...... my son has the car and I told him if it fails again to donate it to be used as an Artificial reef somewhere in the Pacific Ocean ...... preferably the absolute deepest part of the ocean lol!
Dan
Update 19 April 2015
Rubber in harmonic balancer failed (bought a used one for fix). Bolt still held strong with #150 torque. Put in new balancer with same fix.
Tips:
I use binder clips to hold timing belt on cam gears. I use a screw driver in the flex plate gear to hold engine from turning. This work much better then removing starter and using vice grip. I also tighten 3 cap screws before putting in center bolt. Did it the other way and locktite got between pulley and belt timing gear, hardened and created a 1/32 wedge of glue between the 2 parts and made harmonic pulley wobble.
Tips on other pars of car:
Replaced heater hose "Y" with brass fittings as the plastic tube crumbled.
I run Mobile One with a Frantz oil "TP" filter (www.frantzoil.com/home.html) and haven't change oil in over 4 years. Engine still very strong with 190K you can buy the filters used on EBay for as little as $35. Also have it running on my Mazda5 (197K) and Yukon(255K). Similar length of time on oil. Change filter (Scotts 1000 roll) every 3-4K and add quart of oil. Extra chemicals like Dura Lube and Lucas Oil Stabilizer remain in engine. I can run expensive oil and afford it because oil never breaks down (loses lubricity) just gets dirty.
15AUG16 Cap screws failed at 200,000. Had another new pulley and timing gear done with 4 - 1/4" roll pins installed. Still using a new oversized Grade 8 bolt. Hoping this will be the last fix. Torqued down to 150# with lots of Loctite Red
I got to do the same thing. can you send me some of those pictures. brasilboy@gmail.com. or just put a link to it online. if you send them to me I can put it on my account and put a link here for people to see it.
THAT SUCH FRIEND, AS YOU GO WITH THE KIA, I WANT TO REPAIR THE MIO TO SELL IT, SEND ME THE PHOTOS OF THE SOCALO PLATE
Did it hold
Steel grip compound is an easier method that works too.
Having this issue at the moment with my 2004 Sorento which is known as the #BudgetBuildTourer. Had to take it to the local mechanic (who's great, by the way and I highly recommend him - I'm in a small town in Western Australia) in order to get repaired and the harmonic balancer replaced due to wear which it appears as though we're currently waiting on parts from the nearest supplier which is an Auto One, although it seems as though the replacement bolt can only be ordered via a Hyundai/Kia dealer apart from eBay or Amazon. As I live pretty remotely, I'm lucky the issue showed it's head just on the outskirts of town and I was able to get back home, albeit without the alternator doing it's job or power steering assistance, as well as it wanting to stall every time I went to change gear.
Going by other comments here it seems to be a common issue with the 3.5 litre V6 models in particular and I noticed the US had a campaign for replacement of the original brass bolt and black powdercoated washer used in assembly for what appears to be galvanised versions while I was searching for a replacement bolt to purchase.
Here's hoping mine can be repaired by the time I need to start traveling to and from Perth for work.
15AUG16 Cap screws failed at 200,000. Had another new pulley and timing gear done with 4 - 1/4" roll pins installed. Still using a new oversized Grade 8 bolt. Hoping this will be the last fix. Torqued down to 150# with lots of Loctite Red
Here is Dan's fix:my name is Dan Urquhart and I called and talked to about 8 months ago about my 2006 kia sorrento. I have had my kia sorrento just sitting until I had the time to start the project of replacing the pulley and bolt. I did read your latest post that the three additional roll pins sheared off and the bolt came lose so you no tapped the sprocket and put three cap screws with addition of the existing roll pin. So I did exactly the same thing but also came up with a additional method so the crank shaft bolt does not come lose. I have welded a 22mm socket to a steel plate and then drilled and tapped the pulley so I can bolt the plate with the pulley welded to it to prevent the crank shaft bolt to losen.
Hey Mark bought a 2006 for my wife had it less than a month and the bolt is broken off in the crankshaft will I have enough room 2 drill and work on it if I pull the radiator and fans
How do you hold the crankshaft or harmonic balancer in place while torquing to the recommended 130 lbs of torque? I haven't been able to find a tool to hold it in place was thinking about puyting my accessories (alternator, and ac) back on and tighten them down real tight...but just don't wanna have to tear it back down a 4th time...thanks in advance for your help!
There a few ways to do it. Remove the starter and put a vise grip on the fly wheel/flexplate. You can also open the little window at the bottom of the bell housing and stick a big screw driver in the flex plate/ ring gear. You can also put a vice grip on the cam belt and cam pulley. There are special tools to buy too, if you want to go the tool route.
Why don't you have an aluminum pulley made?
Then it would no longer be a harmonic balancer and apparently the engine designers feel it needed a flywheel effect
Latest fix th-cam.com/video/m5Hh8nkJekc/w-d-xo.html