How to test if 18650 cells are FAKES (definitively)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 12 มิ.ย. 2024
- Learn how to make your own battery with my book DIY Lithium Batteries: amzn.to/2jbxvzS or check out my second book - The Ultimate DIY Ebike Guide: amzn.to/2BGx4Fn
The battery building kit in this video is from www.Vruzend.com
Liito-Kala Samsung 25R cells: goo.gl/EuG3Ke
Liito-Kala Samsung 30Q cells: goo.gl/w5rmwJ
Liito-Kala LG HG2 cells: goo.gl/1vAVK9
All Liito-Kala cells: goo.gl/iicH5a
Power resistors: goo.gl/jqCpZf
Power meter goo.gl/Uq6vPA
Seek thermal camera (Amazon): amzn.to/2EIthaE
Battery Bro fake cell inspection article: goo.gl/oiS6y9
48V 14.5 Ah Hailong (shark) battery: goo.gl/jg429Z
36V 11 Ah bottle battery: goo.gl/Snja5H
All ebike batteries: goo.gl/FLC3cK
All 18650 cells: goo.gl/hYWnwU
Bafang BBS01 kit: goo.gl/6wi43g
Bafang BBS02 kit: goo.gl/GWLRxo
Bafang BBSHD kit: goo.gl/LgtBry
100W Flexible solar panel: goo.gl/dQPhQX
The parts that I use for building batteries:
18650 cells: goo.gl/iicH5a
18650 positive insulating washer: goo.gl/HBVOuc
Nickel strip: goo.gl/VIrNQq
Spot welder: goo.gl/KN3Uaw
BMSs: goo.gl/S6gSQx
Silicone wire: goo.gl/xmpbKD
Black 18650 cell spacers: goo.gl/hQxWF6
Vruzend cell spacers: goo.gl/5ReLqA
Large heat shrink tubing: goo.gl/6v1ow9
Small heat shrink tubing: goo.gl/OU3Z6u
Foam sheet for protecting battery: goo.gl/5e71tE
Kapton tape: goo.gl/D6BT57
Chargers: goo.gl/js0T0V
350W hubmotor: goo.gl/K1mYvR
36V/48V controllers I used: goo.gl/nJBnJP
Throttle: goo.gl/UebsNC
Cycle Analyst: goo.gl/RsmE3N
Music by Kevin Macleod
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Thank you for always educating us and for providing us with the resources for our DIY projects! Also, I love the Jumanji-like music during the fast-forward portion of the discharge demonstration!
Excellent video. I learned many new things. The 25R is my favorite battery so far so this was especially helpful.
Love your content, always useful and backed up with sources
Good video. I'm learning a little, step by step, about batteries thanks to this channel. Thanks!
Great video, very helpful. Can you do another video on 21700 cells? Maybe comparing them to 18650 and what are the best ones for an e-bike battery pack?
you not want china fake cells.... they are bad for ebike battery.... can explode or bad issues after 100+ cycles.... not nearly as good quality as genuine... which is hard to tell these days... they are experts of replicating weight of cell. exterior packaging etc... 7 years ago i remember they had AAA Replica beats by dr.dre headphones... and they were really hard to tell... its 2020 almost they have real good replicas but they are fake cheap crap
do you mean tesla cells ? I dont think they're available yet, tell me if I'm wrong
how much solar would it take to power / charge a 48 volt e bike battery i'm just curious on the size for a solar home system
Very informative. Looks like ill need to build up a resistor load setup for battery check out. Awesome video and thanks for the v2 battery kit update!
Great Video, I like your presentations which are informative and interesting with props to boot. Good Job!!!
Good informative video thanks - I am going to try to do the same. Don't you think it would be a good idea to have a switch in your circuit, just in case a cell gets fast very quickly..?
Great video!
I have a Littokala 4x charger which does a full cycle test of charge/discharge/charge, with LCD display and individually programs each slot. Cheap to buy too!
Nice video thank's. How would you test 60 cells, I have a pack and some of cell are getting old (they don't charge anymore and have a very low voltage) And How can I be sure that the kepping cells are still good and are going to last some more years.
Great advice and good source of genuine battery cells.
I think the liitokala battery you are testing is not a "25R" it's a 25R6m (SDIEM), a variant of the 25r except that it's made by Samsung Malaysia. This battery is referenced on the Mooch's website.
hello one more question.
i am thinking to conect a diy pack in paralell to my bosch classic battery pack.
do you have any experience about this?
great video, in the middle of testing myself!!😊😊
Great videos & tutorials, thanks for the info! I’m planning on building a high-current battery pack using 30Q cells with a 20A discharge per parallel cell. I understand the most common nickel strips (7-10mm by 0.15mm) can only handle between 5 to 10 amps each. What would be your advice then? Multiple nickel strips on top of each other or maybe something else? Thanks!
I mean im a bit late, but 0.3 copper should be fine for everything
how many times did you purchase from aliexpress liitokala? I did some research and it seems that there is multiple accounts on aliexpress claiming to be official liitokala store, also found some people complaining that after several purchases of good cells they got fakes from same seller, somebody on one forum did post the business details on all these accounts (Im new to aliexpress and still dont know how to check business details) and it seems that all these accounts have almost identical business details, also on the reviews many people claim to have bad cells, one guy bought 10 and received 5 good and 5 fake... so Im really curious are you affiliated with liitokala or you really purchase regularly from them and have always good cells?
I agree with you, we have tested many of them on Endless Sphere and way more are copies than not. But the China copies are still not bad cells at lower amp draw. Just think how can LiitoKala sell their cells cheaper than the genuine manufacturers like LG Samsung Sony etc can make/sell their cells for...
C'mon man. If you would just remove the "Litokala" sticker, you would see there is no "SAMSUNG" inscription on the baterry.
that's useful stuff man. Keep up with the good work. Cheers.
My ebike cut off under heavy load. I can start again after just a short brake and I don't know if this is because of LVC (Low Voltage Cutoff) or that my BMS is faulty or that I'm just drawing to much current. This usually happens when my battery is getting down to around half capacity. I don't know where to start testing but I think it would be a good topic to investigate. How do I fix this?
Another well done video. Thanks sharing your experience.
Great info. Thanks yet again Micah.
Tape an NTC (thermistor) to the cell and plug it into a multimeter. BTW, temperature of the cell is related to its internal resistance. Cells with a high C-rating have a low internal resistance. If you discharge a cell with a high internal resistance (low C-rating) with too high a current, the cell will build up heat internally very fast and it will get extremely hot. In order to determine the C-rating you need to measure the internal resistance, which BTW, is not constant. Internal resistance is related to STOC (state of charge) and temperature. So IR can be seriously different under different conditions.
If want to series 2 stack of 2*26650 parallel, and that each batteries is protected by a pcb, do I needa add a bms to the circuit?
I want to achieve ~7.4v and increase capacity over only 2*26650 series
Thanks
I'm hoping to build a 52v electric bike with the new kit. I would like to build at least a 4p pack. Will you have more size options available for the new kit? Also do you think that will reasonably fit on an ebike? I'm planning on a mid drive fat bike. Super excited to get started.
Thanks for the video 😊
I always wondered on how tell fake cells from genuine cells.
Nice test. Thank you!
Very excited for the v2 caps. Now I need to start looking for a good 60 or 72 volt bms... any chance vruzend will start offering something like that?
But if you don't show a bad fake cell then this test does not do much better than your word without test at all, even it would be much better to test just a bad cell and say words for good one but again if you test then you test all if not then don't.
You should compare good vs bad or was this video just commercial for your battery caps ?
I am sorry if this sounds harsh but it is true and honest.
Nice Micah! You're my goto guy on all this batteries!
Thanks for the helpful information.
now cycle them 100 times and see how they compare.
I am doing a degradation study with Liitokala NCR18650B cells, and for now (over 240 cycles) they still have a capacity of over 2900mAh. I leave you a link where you can see it: electrotinker.com/en/analysis/degradation-ncr18650b-liitokala/
@@diegodbg86 This is interesting, could you do "Lanzhd" cells too? They are also from China but seem to be the most expensive ones I've seen compared to littokala and varicore.
Would love to see a video on how to hide away all the cables/plugs when doing a conversion. There are kits around lately with neat cables and plugs, but they don't leave many options on the user.
Yea, cable management is always a problem. I like to use spiral wrap and then zip tie to the frame. It’s not a perfect solution but it turns a mess of wires into more of a single log.
I want to make up a replacement set of batteries for my electric skateboard, but the sheer number of 18650 cells that are available are overwhelming. With everything from 3500mah to 9900mah. What specs are important for electric personal vehicles? What do I need to look for specifically?
How about a comparative internal resistance test measurement for each cell , respectively ?
Wouldn't you expect them to be similar ?
I’m new to all this but trying to learn I love watching your videos you are a awesome teacher keep it up. So I have a few questions why do you use 18650 and not 26650 batteries? I want to make a battery for my boys razor four wheeler I want to upgrade the motor to a 36v 1000w motor. I’m just really confused on which batteries to use fo this any help would be awesome. Thank you!
Hooray! V2 soon!
I’ve got two of your books. Only need this one for the win.
The resistors used for testing, what's the final resistance in them?
My questions is that those battery work great for the price? I was thinking to buy new battery to build a power wall, this could be a great option? Thanks for your videos. BTW I’m a mechanical engineer like you.
Since you seem to be doing more individual cell testing, I would look at getting an icharger 3010b or one of the more expensive models to do discharge tests. You can actually graph the discharge curve and cell temperature with those chargers.
I like the improvised testing rig.
Just found your channel. Great concept. I’m very interested in the battery kits. Now I’ll have to sell my black 4x5’s, lol.
Hello and happy new year.My question to you is how to determine c or is it s rating thanks Vince.
Hey great video. The video on the NCR18650AU was great by the way.
Do you have a video or what can I use to bulk discharge for storage of 18 650 batteries and have a Automatic cut off at 3.7 V. Thanks I just love all your videos very educational
Maybe you addressed it somewhere else, but I'm confused over the 20 amps continuous comment on the samsung 25r. It's a 2.5 ah battery. at a 20 amp load, that would indicate 5 minutes or less to dead? I thought these batteries were .2C for charge / discharge? 2500mah * .2 = 500ma charge / discharge. Am I off?
batterybro.com/blogs/18650-wholesale-battery-reviews/30828867-is-it-a-fake-18650-battery-featuring-the-samsung-25r
look at the specifications...
2.5Ah so with 25A load max 6mins I think
standard charge 1.25A for 180min
Do you think that you could get fake from liitokala?
For example when you buy one and you check it and it seems legit would you test others when you buy from them. I mean do you test all of them or just one from all.
Hi, Can you make a video about 48V 10 ah mini pack battery ? Thank you.
Is the watt meter absolutely necessary or can you just connect the power resistors straight to the battery (assuming you can measure voltage another way)? By Ohm's Law, 5x 1ohm in parallel should give you 21amps, or am I missing something? I guess the cells themselves limit to 15A discharge? Planning to get started in battery building.
Doesn't the voltage keep dropping ( changing !!! ) from the beginning of the test, until the end of the test? Who said, "all cells are limited to 15 amps discharge?"
@@MrSummitville yes, that's why I mentioned if you can check voltage another way like using your multimeter to monitor when it goes down to 2.5V, because I don't have a watt meter. I guess to clarify my question, is the amps controlled by the 18650's rating or the by resistance? Because if 5 resistors draw 21A from a 15A-rated battery, will it damage the battery?
When are you going to offer caps for other size cells like 26650?
cool, thanks for the info
Hi So this vid was posted a while back just wondering are u still happy with the batteries you purchased and shared a link to on AliExpress on, and do u still endorse them ,thinking of buying some ,but being a family man monies are tight so just looking for an update Cheers Gaz
What did you use to add the timer to the video?
Just after buying , testing immediately the Internal Resistance (not always easy because the result can change , but possible if it's done in the strictly same conditions) gives the same information, quickly, without any damage for the cell, and the regular repetition after a few months gives a good idea of the (good or bad) evolution of the battery.
Most important is not to know if the battery is fake or genuine , but if it's good or not... RI is the most reliable test to know that , because it's an indirect but reliable indication about the Out-amperage possibilities of the cell.
So your test ( even if not good for the battery) is also a solution, but not necessary , and it must be compared after 50 , 100 cycles...THIS is the real test for battery quality...and battery life.
18650 Lithium Ion Battery Identification Reference
Each battery in this list has a picture, a description, a link to data sheets and relevant URLs, as well as brand/model/capacity/discharge rate/battery chemistry.
If you need to identify a battery cell this should be your starting point.
this is a PDF hosted on Google drive, you can view it from the page or download it to keep as reference.
drive.google.com/file/d/0B9KXttJ6nbz6VWUtcUtvZEY3dWc/view
Source: electricbike.com/forum/forum/knowledge-base/batteries-aa/27729-18650-lithium-ion-battery-identification-reference
Thanks for all your helpful vids :)
Under these circumstances I would say you are correct. I will feel good buying these batteries. Long term would be a good test.
Thank you for the video.
Will the liitokala 18650 & 26650 give a good life cycle.
My hub motors are 55 continues current 100 max current will do anything if I use 20?
Hi where did you get the data sheet for the battery?
thanks for a nuts & volts approach to this review
Hi Can i ask you something why are the nitecore battery and olight so expensive and are the better the LG Panasonic or Samsung cause those cost 5 Euro and Nitecore and olight around 25 euro
Hey... I know this an older vid but I want to run a similar test. Do you have write up or link to amything on wiring the resistor setup u used? Its hard to tell from this vid how all the wiring is in your rig. Thanks
Simply wire the resisitors in parallel ...
Which battery, how many battery, what mah do u recomend to make 60v 30ah with 60a discharge for 60v 2000w hub.
The lesser battery the better😁
Better than LgMJ1 or just stick to LgMJ1.
I like your work Mike keep it up
why you dont have the digital version of yours books? I buy the DIY Solar Power, but i live in Portugal (Europe) takes a eternity to arrive . I whant to buy the ebike guide but if possible in digital version. Thanks
There are digital versions of them on Amazon, the kindle version. And amazon has a free kindle app in case you don't own a kindle.
can you send me the link, please? Thanks
I love your channel!! Thanks.
Interesting... haven’t seen a lot of temp testing. I did just buy a liito-kala charger to be able to test more cells! Could you make a battery building video using mixed capacity recycled cells and maybe compare its performance on your bike! Great video!
Can't you take the wrap off. Should they not be lazer etched?
I love you .... in a bruv sort of way. Very Very Useful, Thanks
Good info Micah. Can you use LiFePO4 on skateboards?
Yes definitely. I believe boosted board uses LiFePO4
Great vid as always !
I checked the Liito-Kala website, but could see no free freight to New Zealand, shipping looked really expensive.
What suppliers do you use when going through Alibaba?
EXTREME COLD hi drain rechargeable battery usage below freezing- -18 to 0 C? or 0deg- 32deg F. my research points to NiMh. any advice would be appreciated.
Awesome viedo, very informative, thanks
hello i am waching your videos. i learned a lot. thanks.
i have one question as i plan to build my own bike battery.
why not using a balance charger like used for rc li battery packs charging instead of building a balancer into the pack?
thanks an regards
hartmut
A balance charger is definitely an option, but for ebikes it is less convenient because those chargers get expensive when going over 6s, requiring complicated charging of one pack broken into multiple parallel packs if you want to use an inexpensive charger.
thank you for the fast feedback.
you are right above 6s they get expensive.
Great info, thanks
Looking forward to those V2 caps
Interesting. thanks for sharing
It is nice to know where to source 18650 cells for the majority of the planet outside the USA. Goods either do not ship outside the USA or shipping is three times the cost of the original item. Keep up the good work.
Great Job Mikey
Any way to tell if the Samsung batteries that you get in a pack are authentic?
Great video, very well explained. Very useful for newbies in rechargeable batteries world. Thanks :)
Good job, Thanks
Nice! Thanks for the great videos :D
Wouldn't a simple internal resistance test be easier? Especially if you're only comparing one cell to another. You're essentially measuring the same thing, only at its source.
I your thermal test setup. I might have to build something like that.
me too
I want to order 1000 high quality new 18650's. can you recommend a source?
Great video as always. I also ordered some cells from the same seller.
Great video. Cheers
Good lesson. With all the batteries you buy, how do you ever have time to test them all individually?
I don't, unfortunately. But I do spot checks on random cells out of batches to get a good idea.
Good info!
superb illustration😂😂👊👍
Maybe not the most definitive test, but certainly something to consider when comparing cells to one another.
Is the liitokala factory store actual litokala?
Very useful video! Thank you for good ideas! :-)
Great video Micah! Btw I just finished reading your new book "ELECTRIC BIKE MANIFESTO". It was excellent like all of your books! Take care!
Aaron
Informative 👍