I think that passengers that take their luggage should immediately void any insurance claim they may have against the airline on the basis that they endangered other passengers safety!
Disagree, if you can grab your computer, grab your computer. Of course if people’s lives are in danger and you see immediate action that could endanger someone’s life, forget it, and save life, but one second to throw on your backpack or grab your bag is no big deal, especially here, everyone was able to get out and grabbing your backpack won’t change anything…
@@onelittlelamb4030 disagree, grabbing your computer from the overhead locker is at least 10 seconds, that could mean some people wont make it outside and die. Passengers who try to take their luggage should be charged with a felony
you are not the judge of exactly how long that fire is going to take to spread, how long it will take for smoke to fill the cabin, and exactly how long it will take for a now compromised evacuation system to get all passengers out - you are the Darwin Award winner who should not be allowed to fly because your clear greed and selfishness will put other people's lives in danger @@onelittlelamb4030
You said it best "until you are in this exact situation you'll never know how you would have handled it" bravo to the crew. Could it have went a little smoother? In a perfect world sure but we dont live in that. End of the day everybody made it out alive! Great video, subscribed!
Yeah that always really annoys me when I see people judging people acting in high stress, rapid action situations. It's much easier to see in hindsight, if you weren't trying to think and react in the split second with what you can see and hear, STFU.
30 yrs retired with American AB Capt, only one real EMG, eng failure in rotation SFO shortest rwy and near MTW, ENG eng relit TOGA, severe vibration 10.4 on instruments (normally 0.2), flight idle but kept it running just in case, overweight landing took 7000 ft extra runway, 14/36 blades bent from the 40 seagulls we swallowed in rotation. taxied in and ate one hell of a breakfast. PRACTICED this in simulator dozens of times over a 30 year career. Used it once. Well worth the training.,
@@giggiddy LOL, I have photos of the engine after we landed and you can see through the engine, and the airport runway maintenance counted the bodies on the runway.
I've said for years that all airliners should be fitted with flush mounted cameras pointing at each engine, control surface and landing gear that the flight crew can access on their instrument panel. That way they could see if they have an engine fire or a malpositioned control surface.
The biggest irony is that most modern airliners have cameras, e.g. on top of the rudder, with a great view of both wings and the area where the engines are mounted. Even if the wings blocked the full view from the rudder to the engine pods, they could see enough to judge whether an engine was smoldering or a raging blase. It is stupid that the PAX have an eagle view while the pilots operate blind and IT Sec is not a valid argument as securing the flight systems while giving them access to this module of the entertainment system is quiet easy for someone who knows their profession well. I hope they add this capability soon for one simple reason: a picture says more than a thousand words.
@@Operngeist1 I did, that’s why I asked for more information. Because the engines are monitored for speed and vibration and oil temp and pressure and EGT and fire and overheat, what extra information could a camera provide?
This just goes to show that the most dangerous part of being in a life threatening situation is being in that situation with a bunch of selfish and dumb strangers lol
An excellent video with meticulous details. Regarding evacuation, this reminded me of a scene in an episode of M.A.S.H. in which there's a nearby explosion, one man (I forget which one) says "We have to evacuate" and Hawkeye responds with "I think I just DID!"
Thank you Hoover! Great overview. I’m a longtime airline pilot (33 years) and former USAF pilot and I very much appreciate your analysis. Thanks particularly for mentioning that high stress, minimum time situations are very unexpected and easy to Monday morning quarterback. The old expression “I fly a perfect airplane from the jumpseat” is more than a little true.
You are awesome dude!! Started out binge watching your videos. Then find out you’re a career aviator that flew two of the most awesome fighter jets in the world. I was an avionics tech in the AIMD IM3 (VAST) shop on USS Forrestal. Worked on gear from F14 and F18 in mid to late 80’s.
Great video & explanations!! As a aircraft mechanic, i did learn a few things that many of us have not been accustomed to ….thank God no one was hurt and i give my props to the pilots and their training… you are so right……no one knows how they would act in such a situation. Flight attendants have a hard job! They deal with the public…and at this time, it can be quite difficult..
A slight correction on the speed callouts. At least on the 757/767 fleet, a few things happen at the 80 kts callout. Anti-skid and RTO arm, which also arms the spoilers. Also, the AC hyd pumps in the pylons come on, in case of an engine driven pump failure, the system is backed up. So, if you abort before 80, manual brakes, no anti-skid, spoilers would deploy at T/R activation regardless whether the spoiler lever is armed or not. So all those "delays" have an impact on knowing what happened before and after 80 kts, and how to respond (memory items, etc). Indeed, the evac was chaotic to say the least, made even worse by people taking their carry ons. Madness. People screaming and getting out of their seat because of fire, but have the time to search for carry on bags. When I fly, anyything crucial I need is in my pockets. The rest, can stay behind. Horrible way for a great airplane to be written off.
Your work here helps us back seaters who do not fly with confidence. For a couple of years I’ve been pretending Juan Brown is in the cockpit when I fly. I’m adding you to my pretend crew.
Great explanation. This was a mess but turned out well. Uncommanded evacuations can be fatal but here the flight crew had no idea of the extent of the danger. One note- V1 is not the lowest speed where an engine out takeoff can be accomplished. If the aircraft weight is the runway limit weight for the conditions it is, but on a cold day with a lightly loaded aircraft it can be zero. Think of a 2 engine B-727 ferry flight.
he never said V1 was the lowest speed a single engine takeoff could be accomplished, he said it is the decision speed at which an aborted takeoff would likely result in a runway overrun, hence why V1 is called "takeoff decision speed"
Good video! In 38 years, other than in 6 month PCs have never had an engine fire or failure on takeoff. One comment is that our procedures called for the airplane to be stopped and if an evacuation was to be accomplished, the Captain's PA would be to "standby", followed by "Evacuate" along with the direction (left, right, forward, aft) when it was called for on the checklist. The obvious challenge regardless of procedure is keeping the pax under control
In defense of the passengers who made poor decisions on that day, absent any true training (preflight briefing aside) nobody truly know how they will react in an emergancy/life thretening situation. As a retired airline pilot with over 40 years experience, when my engine failure on T/O occured (after V1, shortly after lift off) my F/O and I remained calm and due to the condition of the airplane I decided to make a 90/270 turn back to the runway. Only after being securely back on the ground and clearing the runway did he and I fully realize how significant an event we had just experienced. Professional trained crewmembers with years of experience are prepared for such an event but even the most seasoned passenger can be very unpredictable when encountering a similar situation. Crewmembers are aware of how passengers may react but are often limited as to what they can do about it.
The fact that the flight attendants could not successfully operate the interphone for announcements or to call the cockpit gives us an idea how stressful the situation was - considering that flight attendants regularly use the interphone during normal operations.
This was really helpful in understanding the parameters of duties in calling evac. Ive always wondered after many Mayday episodes skip over that (w exception of British Air Tours engine fire).
Absolutely great explanation of what happened, and you are the best at explaining what happens during a plane crash so that the everyday civilian who is not even a pilot can understand what’s going on, but if you don’t mind my saying so I think it would’ve been better to have been able to have seen if there is video of the actual footage, especially since no one was killed, but even if someone was killed because I’m going to go look for it anyway and I’m going to find it, because it’s interesting to see the real life scenario of a tragic incident for learning purposes and risk avoidance and preparedness, etc. etc.…
I hope all the firefighters at SFO noticed not a single passenger was run over by arriving trucks and how effective the foam is when sprayed on the part of the plane that is actually burning. July 6, 2013, On that day at SFO...Ye Meng Yuan, 16, a Chinese student, died of multiple blunt injuries consistent with being run over, said San Mateo County Coroner Robert Foucrault. Two firemen stopped and checked 16-year-old passenger Ye Meng Yuan as she lay helpless on the airfield then inexplicably both ran off leaving her alone on the ground surrounded by nothing other than moving fire trucks, one of them did wave off a truck from running her over before he ran off, the same truck that eventually ran her over twice. Fire Chief White who never climbed a ladder in her life was apparently unaware the trucks had cameras when she lied and said Ye Meng Yuan was covered in foam and already dead, she was neither, the video shows her being covered in foam after she was run over and killed. SF vigorously fought a wrongful death suit until the family could not take the travel, the language barrier, and the abuse from the city's attorney's office anymore and gave up. I remember City Attorney Dennis Herrera so proud of himself for beating them into submission and seeing Ye Meng Yuan's family weeping as they were leaving, she was their only child. To this day SF has not accepted any responsibility and that is what drives me and would any normal person who views all the videos of that day at SFO.
Do you think if the passengers had waited until an evacuation order was announced there could have been further injury (such as smoke inhalation)? It's a difficult balance between following your gut instinct to abandon ship (plane) and follow procedure.
Just to make it crystal clear... Had they waited for the evacuation order, it would've meant waiting for the CREW to direct the evacuation. The doors on the right side of the plane would've been secured (since that's SOP for a right side fire) and nobody would've risked smoke inhalation... The CREW would've expedited the evacuation by smooth efficiency, and chances are good that it would've only taken 90 seconds instead of the 140-ish seconds that it actually took with the chaos of grab-assing, wrestling with luggage, and arguing, backtracking from the door opened on the right (wrong) side... etc... It's hard to believe, but confusion in the chaos is actually GOING to cost you more time than sitting tight and letting the professionals instruct you through the proper methodology THE FIRST TIME... it's really as easy as that. ;o)
No. Chaos is messy and messy is bad. Slow is smooth and smooth is fast. If the passengers followed commands, the right side of the aircraft would have been secured, the aft left doors closed until the left engine shutdown, and lots of risk and an injury avoided.
I have been flying 50 plus years and retired in 2012 the only airplane I ever shut an engine down on was the DC-6 flying freight back in the late 70's. In 28 years and 16000 hours of flying passengers in Jet airliners, I only had to deal with some minor abnormalities. I flew for AA and one thing we did on an abort like this in the sim was say we would open the window and look outside. But what you do in the sim every 9 to 18 months and is not on a checklist could very well be overlooked when the S#$@ hits the fan. One of the problems with the abort and fire evacuation procedure is you have to do a few things before you say the command for the evacuation and there is nothing you can do to prevent passengers doing things if they panic. With that much chaos, 2 min and 21 seconds and no one is dead is not that bad .
I like videos such as these because it reinforces my mentality such that incidents such as these are rare and survivable and also to know what I should do in case of an emergency. Thanks.
Despite the communication failure between cabin and flight deck, the flight attendants were able to evacuate the aircraft safely after the engines were shut down. L-1 first, then eventually all left hand exits. Hats off to that crew.
This is a very interesting indecent. We have seen something similar in Japan recently. I was cabin crew (flight attendant) in the nineties when CRM first started. We had a lesson with both cabin crew and pilots together. A first! We were given scenarios and we had to tick A B C or D on a test paper. One scenario was, in the event of an engine fire on the ground, would you immediately evacuate. All the pilots ticked no, all the CC ticked yes. Then we had a chat and the pilots revealed to us for the first time that they had fire extinguishers in each engine. Now we understood a little better.
Can't a the cabin crew initiate an evacuation on their own, if they deem it necessary, without order from the captain?. Also even though the captain may have to passengers to stay in their seat, would the cabin crew not be able to instantiate an evacuation (like we see in this example, the pilots may not grasp the full situation or the seriousness of the situation). I can't imagine that they HAVE to stay put if there is a real danger to them or passenger lives.
He literally said very carefully in the video that they don't have to wait if the situation is a life threatening emergency. And he said why they weren't sure and why they wanted to delay, because the engine was still running. Not sure how much more clear he could have made it.
Luggage is such a danger in those situations ! Can't those people be criminally charged? Definitely reckless endangerment, but several other laws as well -
Great explanation! Very scary situation!! I heard a graphic explanation of that ramp worker being ingested by the running engine. I wish I had never heard it, you can never un-hear it!! 8( --gary
I was a passenger and looked out the window and saw fire coming out of the engine. I flagged down the stewardess and she looked and said thank you (she also said this was common) and slowly made her way to the front of the plane. I continued to observe the engine however I did not see fire come out again. I didn’t think fire was common but I also knew that panic was not an option. Thank you Lord for favor.
In the spring of 2003, I was a passenger on a flight that hit a deer on the runway during the takeoff roll. I recall coming to an abrupt stop on the runway and sitting there for a minute or so and then an announcement that we were returning to the gate because we had struck the deer. The flight ended up being canceled due to some damage to the front landing gear. Fortunately, that is the most exciting thing I have ever had happen to me during the several hundred commercial flights I've taken in my life.
I’ve always been skeptical about whether it is wise to _always_ continue the takeoff precisely after V1… I’m no pilot, so I’m probably missing something, but it seems like (depending on the airport), a potential slight runway overrun could be preferred if the emergency is significant. Not to mention, i feel like I’ve seen some scenarios (including this one), where pilots have rejected at or above V1 speed, yet they still stopped well before the end of the runway. It seems like these V1 numbers are too conservative? I understand that the point of the protocol is that the split-second nature means that pilots don’t have time to assess the nature of most emergencies, but it just seems like an all-or-nothing cutoff line removes space for discretion (which is the whole point). I’d like to hear a rebuttal.
There was no discussion as to wind direction and stopping the plane with the wind blowing away from cabin. Evan around a camp fire every body moves to the windward side of the fire.
Amazing performances let down by an element of the travelling public. We in the UK had a terrible fire at Manchester airport where many died. Much safety enhancements followed and I shall never forget the statistic that as a newbie or infrequent flyer you deemed to have a 90% better chance of survival if you have actively listened to the emergency announcement at the start of the flight. I used to fly a lot and was always amazed by how blazé passengers are until things go bad.
I love the fact that the guy who exited without being told to exit is the person with the serious injury. Follow instructions, people! If you're in an exit row, open the exit door when told and not before.
The overhead bins need to be locked. Central locking like on a car. The passengers must be notified that there will be no access to the bins until level flight and after the plane is docked at the jetway. A great idea. You’re welcome.
in my understanding, a one engine takeoff of itself is nothing super abnormal (in that it is a well trained scenario)... The issue is the fire and how long the airplane can burn before other systems start getting effected... generally the pilots want/are trained to get on the ground as quickly as possible in case of a persisting fire alarm or uncontained fire because of the damage their flying capability might be incurring.
So everybody survived. Was it ever determined that if things had been done by the book and if the passengers had all remained in their seats until the pilots completed their checklists this would likely have resulted in more casualties? As you reported there was smoke in the cabin. How did it get there?
Recently I flew on Scandinavian Airlines and they have a policy that if you're sitting by a wing you have to have your window shade up. I think that policy might've been driven by an airliner emergency where the pilots misdiagnosed which engine was on fire, mid flight, and even though the passengers saw the fire, those that were interviewed said they figured the pilot knew what they were doing so they didn't speak up. So all the emergency procedures were done based on the wrong engine. Can't remember the outcome of that - at least some people survived. I'm guessing that this keeping the shades up policy is to allow the flight attendants to quickly see if there's a fire. But I haven't seen that policy being put in place on any airlines originating in the United States.
So true. And they are so small too. Can imagine 6 would give good coverage: one above and below each wing, on on the belly looking at the wheels, and one on top looking at the tail. The wheels one is important. You hear many stories of pilots asking the tower “are my wheels down?”
I was a passenger on a plane with an engine fire on takeoff. We were in the air about 5 minutes as we were making a u turn to return to the ground. No injuries.
Do we know what caused the fire? Mentour Pilot concludes his videos with details about the causes of incidents and lessons learned. I like to think that the industry learns lessons to improve safety after most incidents.
That had to be one heck of a huge hot fire to take out the wing spars. In such a short takeoff roll before coming to a stop as well. Imagine oneself as a passenger I too might think the aircraft is toast.......Maybe that's why they threw caution and common sense to the wind. I'd bet the flight crew probably knew that.
Passengers have a right to evacuate a flight when their jet is on fire- especially if the pilots delay because they can’t see the fire to determine its severity. On the other hand, any passenger who tries to retrieve his luggage from the overhead compartment while I am trying to exit is going to find himself on the floor under his seat.
Passengers who initiate evacuations usually end up being sucked into the engines. If you assaulted another passenger during an evacuation you would definitely go to jail.
Simple: use the front or rear exits ( only the middle exits are near the engines.) As to the hypothetical “ assault “, it’s a violation of Federal Aviation Regulations to attempt to evacuate with any type of luggage.
Perfect example of flight crews treating, experience, skills and judgement. A bit of CRM faults but overall no fatalities. AA had another incident a few years earlier before the final step of the US/AA merger……nose gear collapsed just wrote or immediately after V1….you can see passengers holding out cell phone cameras they are down the slide and running away from the aircraft. In that incident of at or immediately after this was a rare exception to the after V1….you cont the take off and cod Back around as inflight emergency. This decision was made immediately after the gear collapse and the friction of skidding along the runway.
Those ridiculous, selfish fools who put their luggage over human life should be charged with reckless endangerment and have a SSSS code placed upon their profile for future flights.
The passengers are the most dangerous item on an aircraft. A person is smart..... A crowd is stupid and you CAN'T FIX STUPID. The pilots did an amazing feat and saved the day. Have to feel for the flight attendants though.... Completely overwhelmed and instructions ignored.....
I was surprised to hear that the pilots couldn't see the engines of this aircraft, or maybe more surprised they didn't have some sort of camera they could look at
Participating in a high pressure activity like Ju-Jitsu or Dry fire runs can help establish people’s anxiety patterns in high stress situations. It’s not perfect but anything that puts you in fight or flight mode can help when the ish hits the fan.
Would it be impossible and or impractical to have cameras mounted on planes looking back toward the engine? Those cameras would be connected to a monitor the pilots would have access to in order to see any wing or engine damage.
People need to be content with their life and satisfied with their current surroundings.STOP FLYING ALLOVER HELL AND CREATION. Be happy with life where you stand.😊
Scary. Cabin crew like to puff up their status as it pertains to passenger safety and the time when they're actually needed to do their primary job, they blow it.
Remain calm & await direction = clearly NOT something those passengers were down for >>> best argument right there for becoming your own private pilot- at least if you go down it isn't from some clown trampling you underfoot to make his escape & leave your crumpled & crippled body to die! That being said the BRONCOS could use some OL help & if any of those passengers are like 6-2+ & 280+ lbs they certainly have the right amount of NASTY to get the job done against the typical NFL DL!
there was that exemplary evacuation after the runway collision in Japan earlier this year where people were orderly and remain seated until they were told to evacuate. Japanese culture led to that. I often wonder when I am an airline passenger if the American mindset would lead to people running each other over to get to the exit. I can't imagine it would be anything other than chaos meaning the weakest will be trampled in the process.
I think they got lucky the fire did not spread so fast as to roast everyone in that plane while the flight attendants showed their incompetence. I have read that during the first minutes of the 911 attack on the WTC buildings, someone was on the PA telling people not to evacuate.
They could be fitted there but you wouldn’t get a good view of the engines and they would cause a massive amount of drag. Also the cameras have to be able to endure temperatures from plus 120 degrees to minus 50 degrees and 600 mile an hour winds without fogging up or malfunctioning. Most engine failure occur internally, so there wouldn’t be anything to see from the outside, it’s only the 1 in a million failures that explode the engine. The instruments that monitor the engines already provide enough data for the pilots to detect an engine problem very quickly.
Have procedures changed in some way as a result of this? I presume there must be a way to shut down the engines sooner in the checklist so that this series of events is less risky. Better signals that the doors are opened would be helpful too. Of course the FAs and pax are going to want to get everyone off ASAP. Fire is good motivation! Don't judge the pax too harshly, these are people in the US after all, not the much more civilized people elsewhere on the planet.
I think that passengers that take their luggage should immediately void any insurance claim they may have against the airline on the basis that they endangered other passengers safety!
Amen!
Disagree, if you can grab your computer, grab your computer. Of course if people’s lives are in danger and you see immediate action that could endanger someone’s life, forget it, and save life, but one second to throw on your backpack or grab your bag is no big deal, especially here, everyone was able to get out and grabbing your backpack won’t change anything…
It’s great to have opinions, paul. Thanks for sharing.
@@onelittlelamb4030 disagree, grabbing your computer from the overhead locker is at least 10 seconds, that could mean some people wont make it outside and die. Passengers who try to take their luggage should be charged with a felony
you are not the judge of exactly how long that fire is going to take to spread, how long it will take for smoke to fill the cabin, and exactly how long it will take for a now compromised evacuation system to get all passengers out - you are the Darwin Award winner who should not be allowed to fly because your clear greed and selfishness will put other people's lives in danger @@onelittlelamb4030
You said it best "until you are in this exact situation you'll never know how you would have handled it" bravo to the crew. Could it have went a little smoother? In a perfect world sure but we dont live in that. End of the day everybody made it out alive! Great video, subscribed!
Yeah that always really annoys me when I see people judging people acting in high stress, rapid action situations. It's much easier to see in hindsight, if you weren't trying to think and react in the split second with what you can see and hear, STFU.
30 yrs retired with American AB Capt, only one real EMG, eng failure in rotation SFO shortest rwy and near MTW, ENG eng relit TOGA, severe vibration 10.4 on instruments (normally 0.2), flight idle but kept it running just in case, overweight landing took 7000 ft extra runway, 14/36 blades bent from the 40 seagulls we swallowed in rotation. taxied in and ate one hell of a breakfast. PRACTICED this in simulator dozens of times over a 30 year career. Used it once. Well worth the training.,
Thanks for the story, Capt. Training, training, training, and more training. Practice makes perfect.
Not sure whats more impressive. That you knew how many blades you bent or how many birds you hit.
@@giggiddy LOL, I have photos of the engine after we landed and you can see through the engine, and the airport runway maintenance counted the bodies on the runway.
I've said for years that all airliners should be fitted with flush mounted cameras pointing at each engine, control surface and landing gear that the flight crew can access on their instrument panel. That way they could see if they have an engine fire or a malpositioned control surface.
The biggest irony is that most modern airliners have cameras, e.g. on top of the rudder, with a great view of both wings and the area where the engines are mounted.
Even if the wings blocked the full view from the rudder to the engine pods, they could see enough to judge whether an engine was smoldering or a raging blase. It is stupid that the PAX have an eagle view while the pilots operate blind and IT Sec is not a valid argument as securing the flight systems while giving them access to this module of the entertainment system is quiet easy for someone who knows their profession well.
I hope they add this capability soon for one simple reason: a picture says more than a thousand words.
I could't agree more. Cameras are very cheap. The lives they could save are priceless!
How do cameras save lives?
@@kickedinthecalfbyacow7549 maybe actually read the previous comments
@@Operngeist1 I did, that’s why I asked for more information. Because the engines are monitored for speed and vibration and oil temp and pressure and EGT and fire and overheat, what extra information could a camera provide?
This just goes to show that the most dangerous part of being in a life threatening situation is being in that situation with a bunch of selfish and dumb strangers lol
Everyone evacuated safely
Panic happens only to selfish and dumb people, not altruistic geniuses like you.
@@kickedinthecalfbyacow7549 Except the guy that got blown over by jet exhaust.
An excellent video with meticulous details.
Regarding evacuation, this reminded me of a scene in an episode of M.A.S.H. in which there's a nearby explosion, one man (I forget which one) says "We have to evacuate" and Hawkeye responds with "I think I just DID!"
When crap hits the fan, sometimes it hits your pants as well :D hahahaha
Thank you Hoover!
Great overview. I’m a longtime airline pilot (33 years) and former USAF pilot and I very much appreciate your analysis. Thanks particularly for mentioning that high stress, minimum time situations are very unexpected and easy to Monday morning quarterback. The old expression “I fly a perfect airplane from the jumpseat” is more than a little true.
You are awesome dude!! Started out binge watching your videos. Then find out you’re a career aviator that flew two of the most awesome fighter jets in the world. I was an avionics tech in the AIMD IM3 (VAST) shop on USS Forrestal. Worked on gear from F14 and F18 in mid to late 80’s.
Great video & explanations!! As a aircraft mechanic, i did learn a few things that many of us have not been accustomed to ….thank God no one was hurt and i give my props to the pilots and their training… you are so right……no one knows how they would act in such a situation. Flight attendants have a hard job! They deal with the public…and at this time, it can be quite difficult..
A slight correction on the speed callouts. At least on the 757/767 fleet, a few things happen at the 80 kts callout. Anti-skid and RTO arm, which also arms the spoilers. Also, the AC hyd pumps in the pylons come on, in case of an engine driven pump failure, the system is backed up. So, if you abort before 80, manual brakes, no anti-skid, spoilers would deploy at T/R activation regardless whether the spoiler lever is armed or not. So all those "delays" have an impact on knowing what happened before and after 80 kts, and how to respond (memory items, etc). Indeed, the evac was chaotic to say the least, made even worse by people taking their carry ons. Madness. People screaming and getting out of their seat because of fire, but have the time to search for carry on bags. When I fly, anyything crucial I need is in my pockets. The rest, can stay behind. Horrible way for a great airplane to be written off.
The airlines and government can control a lot but they can't control how passengers act during an emergency.
Your work here helps us back seaters who do not fly with confidence. For a couple of years I’ve been pretending Juan Brown is in the cockpit when I fly. I’m adding you to my pretend crew.
All I want is Gryder in the cockpit!
@@sludge8506 To hell with Gryder! His channel sucks.
Great explanation. This was a mess but turned out well. Uncommanded evacuations can be fatal but here the flight crew had no idea of the extent of the danger. One note- V1 is not the lowest speed where an engine out takeoff can be accomplished. If the aircraft weight is the runway limit weight for the conditions it is, but on a cold day with a lightly loaded aircraft it can be zero. Think of a 2 engine B-727 ferry flight.
he never said V1 was the lowest speed a single engine takeoff could be accomplished, he said it is the decision speed at which an aborted takeoff would likely result in a runway overrun, hence why V1 is called "takeoff decision speed"
You did a great job of explaining this situation.
Thank you so much for sharing.
Love your channel.
Blessings, Carlos ✝️🙏❤️😊❗️
Good video!
In 38 years, other than in 6 month PCs have never had an engine fire or failure on takeoff. One comment is that our procedures called for the airplane to be stopped and if an evacuation was to be accomplished, the Captain's PA would be to "standby", followed by "Evacuate" along with the direction (left, right, forward, aft) when it was called for on the checklist. The obvious challenge regardless of procedure is keeping the pax under control
Incredible pilot training and experience to get everything done so quickly despite never having this experience before.
They experienced this situation in the simulator.
In defense of the passengers who made poor decisions on that day, absent any true training (preflight briefing aside) nobody truly know how they will react in an emergancy/life thretening situation. As a retired airline pilot with over 40 years experience, when my engine failure on T/O occured (after V1, shortly after lift off) my F/O and I remained calm and due to the condition of the airplane I decided to make a 90/270 turn back to the runway. Only after being securely back on the ground and clearing the runway did he and I fully realize how significant an event we had just experienced. Professional trained crewmembers with years of experience are prepared for such an event but even the most seasoned passenger can be very unpredictable when encountering a similar situation. Crewmembers are aware of how passengers may react but are often limited as to what they can do about it.
The fact that the flight attendants could not successfully operate the interphone for announcements or to call the cockpit gives us an idea how stressful the situation was - considering that flight attendants regularly use the interphone during normal operations.
Its called lack of training and incompetence.
This was really helpful in understanding the parameters of duties in calling evac. Ive always wondered after many Mayday episodes skip over that (w exception of British Air Tours engine fire).
Thanks! There's definitely a lot involved and it all happens very quickly so you have to brief it beforehand.
I really enjoy watching your videos. I wonder which airline you are with. I would like to be on one of your flights one day.
What a mess during a very stressful situation for all involved. Glad everyone was able to evacuate with no loss of life. Kudos to the flight crew.
"Passengers were bum-rushing the exits" 🤣. Perfect description.
Absolutely great explanation of what happened, and you are the best at explaining what happens during a plane crash so that the everyday civilian who is not even a pilot can understand what’s going on, but if you don’t mind my saying so I think it would’ve been better to have been able to have seen if there is video of the actual footage, especially since no one was killed, but even if someone was killed because I’m going to go look for it anyway and I’m going to find it, because it’s interesting to see the real life scenario of a tragic incident for learning purposes and risk avoidance and preparedness, etc. etc.…
I hope all the firefighters at SFO noticed not a single passenger was run over by arriving trucks and how effective the foam is when sprayed on the part of the plane that is actually burning.
July 6, 2013, On that day at SFO...Ye Meng Yuan, 16, a Chinese student, died of multiple blunt injuries consistent with being run over, said San Mateo County Coroner Robert Foucrault. Two firemen stopped and checked 16-year-old passenger Ye Meng Yuan as she lay helpless on the airfield then inexplicably both ran off leaving her alone on the ground surrounded by nothing other than moving fire trucks, one of them did wave off a truck from running her over before he ran off, the same truck that eventually ran her over twice. Fire Chief White who never climbed a ladder in her life was apparently unaware the trucks had cameras when she lied and said Ye Meng Yuan was covered in foam and already dead, she was neither, the video shows her being covered in foam after she was run over and killed.
SF vigorously fought a wrongful death suit until the family could not take the travel, the language barrier, and the abuse from the city's attorney's office anymore and gave up. I remember City Attorney Dennis Herrera so proud of himself for beating them into submission and seeing Ye Meng Yuan's family weeping as they were leaving, she was their only child.
To this day SF has not accepted any responsibility and that is what drives me and would any normal person who views all the videos of that day at SFO.
Wow. RIP to the victim.....
Fire chief DEI hire?
@@stephens7107she a white lady so maybe
You are really wise Pilot Debrief❤
Do you think if the passengers had waited until an evacuation order was announced there could have been further injury (such as smoke inhalation)? It's a difficult balance between following your gut instinct to abandon ship (plane) and follow procedure.
No. I think he explained very well why you shouldn't do that.
Just to make it crystal clear... Had they waited for the evacuation order, it would've meant waiting for the CREW to direct the evacuation. The doors on the right side of the plane would've been secured (since that's SOP for a right side fire) and nobody would've risked smoke inhalation... The CREW would've expedited the evacuation by smooth efficiency, and chances are good that it would've only taken 90 seconds instead of the 140-ish seconds that it actually took with the chaos of grab-assing, wrestling with luggage, and arguing, backtracking from the door opened on the right (wrong) side... etc...
It's hard to believe, but confusion in the chaos is actually GOING to cost you more time than sitting tight and letting the professionals instruct you through the proper methodology THE FIRST TIME... it's really as easy as that. ;o)
No. Chaos is messy and messy is bad.
Slow is smooth and smooth is fast.
If the passengers followed commands, the right side of the aircraft would have been secured, the aft left doors closed until the left engine shutdown, and lots of risk and an injury avoided.
It seems to happen more on ships where the captain is already long gone while the rest is left to drown.
Thank you for another great video. From Sydney Australia 🇦🇺
Really enjoy these videos! Thanks and keep them coming!
I have been flying 50 plus years and retired in 2012 the only airplane I ever shut an engine down on was the DC-6 flying freight back in the late 70's. In 28 years and 16000 hours of flying passengers in Jet airliners, I only had to deal with some minor abnormalities. I flew for AA and one thing we did on an abort like this in the sim was say we would open the window and look outside. But what you do in the sim every 9 to 18 months and is not on a checklist could very well be overlooked when the S#$@ hits the fan. One of the problems with the abort and fire evacuation procedure is you have to do a few things before you say the command for the evacuation and there is nothing you can do to prevent passengers doing things if they panic. With that much chaos, 2 min and 21 seconds and no one is dead is not that bad .
That was a lightening fast reaction time by thr crew. Well done!
Great presentation…
I like videos such as these because it reinforces my mentality such that incidents such as these are rare and survivable and also to know what I should do in case of an emergency. Thanks.
Excellent video ! Great photo of you in you flight suit.
Despite the communication failure between cabin and flight deck, the flight attendants were able to evacuate the aircraft safely after the engines were shut down. L-1 first, then eventually all left hand exits. Hats off to that crew.
Great job!! Good analysis and insights 😊 🎄
There is some great ARFF dashcam video on line which shows how serious this fire was.
A large amount of foam was expended in this case.
Kudos to the Flight Attendants, handling a panicy crowd is no joke.
Nice presentation of good content. Thanks for your work Sir.😊
Thanks, I appreciate it!
This is a very interesting indecent. We have seen something similar in Japan recently.
I was cabin crew (flight attendant) in the nineties when CRM first started.
We had a lesson with both cabin crew and pilots together. A first!
We were given scenarios and we had to tick A B C or D on a test paper.
One scenario was, in the event of an engine fire on the ground, would you immediately evacuate.
All the pilots ticked no, all the CC ticked yes.
Then we had a chat and the pilots revealed to us for the first time that they had fire extinguishers in each engine. Now we understood a little better.
Indecent?
@@kickedinthecalfbyacow7549 It's taken four weeks for someone to notice. I will blame spell check as is the fashion these days.
Can't a the cabin crew initiate an evacuation on their own, if they deem it necessary, without order from the captain?. Also even though the captain may have to passengers to stay in their seat, would the cabin crew not be able to instantiate an evacuation (like we see in this example, the pilots may not grasp the full situation or the seriousness of the situation). I can't imagine that they HAVE to stay put if there is a real danger to them or passenger lives.
He literally said very carefully in the video that they don't have to wait if the situation is a life threatening emergency. And he said why they weren't sure and why they wanted to delay, because the engine was still running. Not sure how much more clear he could have made it.
Luggage is such a danger in those situations ! Can't those people be criminally charged? Definitely reckless endangerment, but several other laws as well -
Were you there? How do you know someone with a backpack is endangering anyone? 🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️
@@sludge8506
I'm going to do humanity a service and not explain it to you...
@@BIG-DIPPER-56Thanks for that😂
Great explanation! Very scary situation!! I heard a graphic explanation of that ramp worker being ingested by the running engine. I wish I had never heard it, you can never un-hear it!! 8( --gary
I was a passenger and looked out the window and saw fire coming out of the engine. I flagged down the stewardess and she looked and said thank you (she also said this was common) and slowly made her way to the front of the plane. I continued to observe the engine however I did not see fire come out again. I didn’t think fire was common but I also knew that panic was not an option. Thank you Lord for favor.
Yikes 😮- were most ppl freaking out? I prob would have been … or frozen in fear
I really enjoy your videos. I think I’m a bit addicted. 🙂
In the spring of 2003, I was a passenger on a flight that hit a deer on the runway during the takeoff roll. I recall coming to an abrupt stop on the runway and sitting there for a minute or so and then an announcement that we were returning to the gate because we had struck the deer. The flight ended up being canceled due to some damage to the front landing gear. Fortunately, that is the most exciting thing I have ever had happen to me during the several hundred commercial flights I've taken in my life.
I’ve always been skeptical about whether it is wise to _always_ continue the takeoff precisely after V1… I’m no pilot, so I’m probably missing something, but it seems like (depending on the airport), a potential slight runway overrun could be preferred if the emergency is significant. Not to mention, i feel like I’ve seen some scenarios (including this one), where pilots have rejected at or above V1 speed, yet they still stopped well before the end of the runway. It seems like these V1 numbers are too conservative? I understand that the point of the protocol is that the split-second nature means that pilots don’t have time to assess the nature of most emergencies, but it just seems like an all-or-nothing cutoff line removes space for discretion (which is the whole point). I’d like to hear a rebuttal.
You are assuming that stopping after v1 is still safe. That is an incorrect assumption.
Thanks Hoover!!!!!!!!!!!!
There was no discussion as to wind direction and stopping the plane with the wind blowing away from cabin. Evan around a camp fire every body moves to the windward side of the fire.
1:11,000,000? That’s better odds than me winning the Power Ball! 🤣
Amazing performances let down by an element of the travelling public. We in the UK had a terrible fire at Manchester airport where many died. Much safety enhancements followed and I shall never forget the statistic that as a newbie or infrequent flyer you deemed to have a 90% better chance of survival if you have actively listened to the emergency announcement at the start of the flight. I used to fly a lot and was always amazed by how blazé passengers are until things go bad.
Thank you.
A similar situation doomed the Concorde. Pilots had no idea there was a fire on takeoff.
Wow your still an active pilot!? Amazing
I love the fact that the guy who exited without being told to exit is the person with the serious injury. Follow instructions, people! If you're in an exit row, open the exit door when told and not before.
Pilot Debrief: Odds are 1 in 11 million of engine fire on takeoff.
Boeing: hold my beer.
The overhead bins need to be locked. Central locking like on a car. The passengers must be notified that there will be no access to the bins until level flight and after the plane is docked at the jetway. A great idea. You’re welcome.
hi i am pilot from big jet and this is good stuff
in my understanding, a one engine takeoff of itself is nothing super abnormal
(in that it is a well trained scenario)... The issue is the fire and how long the airplane can burn before other systems start getting effected...
generally the pilots want/are trained to get on the ground as quickly as possible in case of a persisting fire alarm or uncontained fire because of the damage their flying capability might be incurring.
I wonder how many people that watch your videos understanding that discipline, whether under duress or not, is a super duper big deal.
*Sky Gods.* much respect
So everybody survived. Was it ever determined that if things had been done by the book and if the passengers had all remained in their seats until the pilots completed their checklists this would likely have resulted in more casualties? As you reported there was smoke in the cabin. How did it get there?
An idiot passenger opened an escape door without waiting for instructions and that allowed smoke to enter the plane.
Smoke could have entered via the air conditioning
Recently I flew on Scandinavian Airlines and they have a policy that if you're sitting by a wing you have to have your window shade up. I think that policy might've been driven by an airliner emergency where the pilots misdiagnosed which engine was on fire, mid flight, and even though the passengers saw the fire, those that were interviewed said they figured the pilot knew what they were doing so they didn't speak up. So all the emergency procedures were done based on the wrong engine. Can't remember the outcome of that - at least some people survived. I'm guessing that this keeping the shades up policy is to allow the flight attendants to quickly see if there's a fire. But I haven't seen that policy being put in place on any airlines originating in the United States.
Love your videos. I would love to know why the engine caught on fire rubbed your fuel wine that would be a nice attendum
Hoover, wouldn’t a small side view camera be helpful? Seems like seeing the wings would be good for the crew
Love your channel and I am subbed..BUT...what was the cause of the engine fire?
rupture of a disk in the engine, with one fragment piercing the fuel tank in the wing
Why aren't there cameras facing both of the engines so that the piolets can see both engines on a monitor or something?
So true. And they are so small too.
Can imagine 6 would give good coverage: one above and below each wing, on on the belly looking at the wheels, and one on top looking at the tail. The wheels one is important. You hear many stories of pilots asking the tower “are my wheels down?”
@@UDumFck ya true! Wait for real though. The more i think about this the more i can't understand why this hasn't been implemented.
Once one person panics, the rest follow.
I was a passenger on a plane with an engine fire on takeoff. We were in the air about 5 minutes as we were making a u turn to return to the ground. No injuries.
When Yakkety Sax starts playing as the passengers start to panic.
Do we know what caused the fire? Mentour Pilot concludes his videos with details about the causes of incidents and lessons learned. I like to think that the industry learns lessons to improve safety after most incidents.
rupture of a disk in the engine, with one fragment piercing the fuel tank in the wing
Truly remarkable!
good thing I'Ve seen this video. I'll never do this mistake when flying!! EVer!
Because I'm not a pilot.
That Captian saved the lives of his passengers.
Tell us how the *Captian* saved the lives of his passengers.
Passenger #1: we're on fire let's get out of here!!! Passenger #2: just let me grab my makeup bag, toothbrush, & contact lens case.
Seeing that melted wing shows how intense the fire was, hence the "uncontained" word in the NTSB report.
That had to be one heck of a huge hot fire to take out the wing spars. In such a short takeoff roll before coming to a stop as well. Imagine oneself as a passenger I too might think the aircraft is toast.......Maybe that's why they threw caution and common sense to the wind. I'd bet the flight crew probably knew that.
Actually chicago is my favorite airport. Flew out of there many times
Passengers have a right to evacuate a flight when their jet is on fire- especially if the pilots delay because they can’t see the fire to determine its severity. On the other hand, any passenger who tries to retrieve his luggage from the overhead compartment while I am trying to exit is going to find himself on the floor under his seat.
Passengers who initiate evacuations usually end up being sucked into the engines. If you assaulted another passenger during an evacuation you would definitely go to jail.
Simple: use the front or rear exits ( only the middle exits are near the engines.) As to the hypothetical “ assault “, it’s a violation of Federal Aviation Regulations to attempt to evacuate with any type of luggage.
We’ve trained for years yet it still goes pear shaped! One has to ask, why bother? Idiots will always be idiots on planes!
The passengers are the most dangerous part of flying.
Perfect example of flight crews treating, experience, skills and judgement. A bit of CRM faults but overall no fatalities. AA had another incident a few years earlier before the final step of the US/AA merger……nose gear collapsed just wrote or immediately after V1….you can see passengers holding out cell phone cameras they are down the slide and running away from the aircraft. In that incident of at or immediately after this was a rare exception to the after V1….you cont the take off and cod
Back around as inflight emergency. This decision was made immediately after the gear collapse and the friction of skidding along the runway.
Those ridiculous, selfish fools who put their luggage over human life should be charged with reckless endangerment and have a SSSS code placed upon their profile for future flights.
how difficult would it be to put small video cameras looking back at the engines and wings?
I don't get it. Every seat has a small screen for movies, but they don't give the pilots a screen to monitor the engines.
They have lots of instruments monitoring all aspects of the engine including fire detection systems, cameras are almost useless
The passengers are the most dangerous item on an aircraft.
A person is smart..... A crowd is stupid and you CAN'T FIX STUPID.
The pilots did an amazing feat and saved the day. Have to feel for the flight attendants though.... Completely overwhelmed and instructions ignored.....
The heck with the luggage. I'm outta there.
Wow look at the charred melted wing😮
I was surprised to hear that the pilots couldn't see the engines of this aircraft, or maybe more surprised they didn't have some sort of camera they could look at
Participating in a high pressure activity like Ju-Jitsu or Dry fire runs can help establish people’s anxiety patterns in high stress situations. It’s not perfect but anything that puts you in fight or flight mode can help when the ish hits the fan.
Did you retire an LTC?
Would it be impossible and or impractical to have cameras mounted on planes looking back toward the engine? Those cameras would be connected to a monitor the pilots would have access to in order to see any wing or engine damage.
110% efficient communication!
People need to be content with their life and satisfied with their current surroundings.STOP FLYING ALLOVER HELL AND CREATION. Be happy with life where you stand.😊
Did they save that plane? Is it still flying
I guess what is important to figure out here is you can always figure out why the plane made these sounds the pilot heard later. Abort now.
Scary. Cabin crew like to puff up their status as it pertains to passenger safety and the time when they're actually needed to do their primary job, they blow it.
Remain calm & await direction = clearly NOT something those passengers were down for >>> best argument right there for becoming your own private pilot- at least if you go down it isn't from some clown trampling you underfoot to make his escape & leave your crumpled & crippled body to die! That being said the BRONCOS could use some OL help & if any of those passengers are like 6-2+ & 280+ lbs they certainly have the right amount of NASTY to get the job done against the typical NFL DL!
there was that exemplary evacuation after the runway collision in Japan earlier this year where people were orderly and remain seated until they were told to evacuate. Japanese culture led to that. I often wonder when I am an airline passenger if the American mindset would lead to people running each other over to get to the exit. I can't imagine it would be anything other than chaos meaning the weakest will be trampled in the process.
I think they got lucky the fire did not spread so fast as to roast everyone in that plane while the flight attendants showed their incompetence. I have read that during the first minutes of the 911 attack on the WTC buildings, someone was on the PA telling people not to evacuate.
I've often wondered, why don't they put cameras facing back to the engines for the pilots to see?
Where would you mount the cameras?
@@kickedinthecalfbyacow7549 Below the flight deck windows facing back? I'm no engineer, but couldn't be that difficult.
They could be fitted there but you wouldn’t get a good view of the engines and they would cause a massive amount of drag. Also the cameras have to be able to endure temperatures from plus 120 degrees to minus 50 degrees and 600 mile an hour winds without fogging up or malfunctioning. Most engine failure occur internally, so there wouldn’t be anything to see from the outside, it’s only the 1 in a million failures that explode the engine. The instruments that monitor the engines already provide enough data for the pilots to detect an engine problem very quickly.
Have procedures changed in some way as a result of this? I presume there must be a way to shut down the engines sooner in the checklist so that this series of events is less risky. Better signals that the doors are opened would be helpful too. Of course the FAs and pax are going to want to get everyone off ASAP. Fire is good motivation! Don't judge the pax too harshly, these are people in the US after all, not the much more civilized people elsewhere on the planet.