This is an amazing surprise! I recall you wanting to cover Elden Ring but you found it intricate than Zelda lore. Im so pleased! Thanks for all of your efforts! It is nice to see something new from you!
I am so happy you are producing content on Elden Ring. Your Zelda videos are among my favorites and Elden Ring has some of my favorite lore and worldbuilding of any piece of media ever, so this is a match made in heaven for me. Thanks for being awesome and I look forward to your future dives into the Lands Between!
That means a lot to hear! I've always enjoyed the lore of many different IP's and only sticking with one universe (Zelda) is starting to feel a bit limiting. I'm sure the algorythm will punish me for it initially, but It's something I will just have to go through ^^
Don, Your videos are freaking incredible! Weather its your sharp mind and thoughts that pick up on subtle details or the brilliant editing and animation work. Please keep up the great work man!
The Numen boats in the trailer behind the dancer and the masks that look like the one Tanith wears has me really excited for the lore we're going to get
If the Shadow Realm existed as part of the Lands Between it almost have to be in the middle sea, made even more likely by the fact you can see the sea drop suddenly into a giant waterfall that spans a circle all around the middle sea, relatively close to the coastline
I am primarily an Elden Ring lore guy, but I do dip my toes into Zelda lore and appreciated your videos. Looking forward to what you have to contribute to this community.
It’s funny bc I’d argue half the people who play from soft games have no idea what the lore even is lmao but they like the gameplay. That seems to be Zelda’s main goal now, gameplay over lore. I’m not gonna say they hate lore though that’s a little extreme lol
ive just started getting into elden ring lore due to my lack of interest in totk so this video comes at the perfect time! love your content no matter what you cover
Yes, I'm so pumped to see these great lore TH-camrs head over to the FromSoft games. There's so much to dig into! "We are thinking on the basest of planes. What we need, are more eyes"
Especially since Miyazaki makes games for lore hunters intentionally, and in Zelda they are just like "Honestly, we haven't thought that hard about it"
Hell yeah dude. A thing I've been wondering is wether Messmer and Melina will end up being twins the way Marika's other "M" children are (Mohg + Morgot, Miquella + Milenia). Also interesting that Messmer, Mohg, and Ranni are all Demigods who are missing a left eye (Ranni's spirit is missing a left eye, it's her doll that is missing its right). Melina too. They all seem to have in common being traitors against the Erdtree / Two Fingers, especially if Melina is indeed the Gloam-eyed Queen. Given the mystery around the Gloam-eyed Queen and how little information there is about her, I suspect she's a very old figure in the lore. Children of Marika maybe from before she was a God? When she was just a Numen? We've already seen that children of a person who ascends to Godhood themselves become Demigods, in the form of Radagon's children with Renala. If the Lands of Shadow are also where Marika comes from / the lands of the Numen, then are Malina & Messmer her "Numen children" in some way?
Yes! I also speculate that Messmer and Melina are related somehow. They could be among the first of Marika's demi-god children (possibly preceding the golden lineage even). It's easy to forget that Marika had many more children besides the one we meet and fight in the base game. The ones in the walking mausoleums for example. Im still convinced that Meline is indeed the Gloam-eyed queen. All signs point to her. Perhaps her and Messmer are the "rebels" of the family who tried to challenge her rule in the distant past. And we know they ultimately lost. The gloam-eyed queen was defeated and her source of power sealed by Maliketh, and Messmer... well... he seems to have been banished to the shadow realm ^^
@@MonsterMaze I think all of the Omen in the shunning grounds with their horns still attached are also implied to be Marika's children, as they only granted that option to royalty. I also think all of the red haired misbegotten are Marika/Radagon's children but I don't have much evidence for it, just the one with Radagon's sword.
Don, the fact that you focus on my 2 favorite games (Zelda & Elden Ring obviously) makes you probably one of my favorite content creators on the platform. not only that but you are also just a very talented narrator, and you just seem cool. stay awsome brother, love your work! ❤️
I believe the shadowed tree is the crucible, which would explain why the erdtree/Marika hid it. The crucible seems to be the opposite of the erdtree the erdtree showing order and the crucible showing chaos. The title can be interpreted as the crucible being overshadowed by the erdtree, and not just destroyed like a lot of people thought it was. The way it looks could also be because of the golden orders attempt at destroying it. Another interesting thing I noticed was on the map where the erdtree is there are golden rays of light the look very similar to the dark vails we see in the trailer.
I think the oroboros is symbolized by Messmer and the Erdtree(s). One tree is feeding from the other and also Miquella and Messmer are somehow connected to each other.
hey! honestly really great to see you venturing out to other series - followed the Zelda stuff for ages and was super pleased to see the high quality I've come to expect from your videos exploring something else. The first of many I hope!!!
i feel like the most important part of the shadow thing about the dlc's title and the zone is metaphorical. it's the shadow of the erdtree as in its secret, hidden, dirty history, where marika did some nasty stuff to gain power, like destroying the og erdtree and using it to make our own and then she hid that place and those events under the rag.
I just noticed you have over 150k subs! I subbed when you had like 20k. I thought your production quality was too high for a small channel, so it’s nice you're getting the recognition you deserve.
Rock on, glad to you jump on this! You have a similar theory as mine that I posted on Bandit's channel/comment section. Good to see I'm not alone. Yours is obviously waaay more fleshed out! 😅 Makes me wonder if the ErdTree is actually dead but the idea of it (compare to religion in a sense) but that visual or knowledge is hidden from view, veiled. But that power to have over beings, that idea.... is a tool. I'm starting to wonder if Marika had a dirty secret, or.... she was controlled by the Elden Beast to a certain extent since she was the vessel for the Elden Ring. Possibly coaxed into accepting what was most likely portrayed as a gift of God hood, but literally forces said vessel to become a slave. Maybe she couldn't be controlled 100% so enter Radagon. Not by her choice, by the Beast's? Then all of the events unfold. Her having children might not have been part of the plan originally and her actually rebelling against the greater will. To me, the Tree/Beast needs souls to survive. There's a reason why everyone keeps wanting to burn it down. It would be freedom
Glad to hear that there are people who are on the same page as me. You can only fit so much into a YT comment, so I am sure your theory is just as fleshed out ^^ Marika seems to have had a plethora of "dirty secrets" haha. Including her secret plan to call the Tarnished back to the Lands Between.
My theory is that the Numen came with the Elden Ring/Beast when it came as a shooting star from space. If it crashed in the middle of the map and made a huge crater (Deeproot Depths are DEEP DOWN) then they could’ve emerged and created the Eternal Cities down there.
I went to the inner edge of the map, looked into the middle for about 20minutes i swear you can see structures out there in the dark, plus bright red embers floating everywhere
Aha! This should be a treat. Your granular/meticulous dissections were made for Elden Ring / Souls games. I am the most old-school of Zelda fans, like yourself, but I'm quite new to Fromsoft/Miyazaki but it warms my heart to see the massive crossover in the fandoms of Zelda and Souls Games. Playing ER for the first time when it came out.... I really did feel a glimpse of that AWE that I felt back in '98 when OOT dropped. Indeed, 3D Zelda games were one of the many inspirations of Miyazaki. I'll probably leave a comment when done viewing too. Love your content!
So I remember Bandit made a video about Marika and his theory is that the land of the Numen are the Eternal Cities, and a big reason for this is how the Black Knives apparently are Numen women with close ties to Marika according to their armor. And Rogier states that the Black Knives are Scions of the Eternal City. So could the wording of underworld also be quite literal and it's ba world under the Lands Between such as Nokron or Noxstella?
From what I understand, the Nox who live in the eternal cities were banished underground by the Greater Will. They do indeed share a common ancestory with the Numen. But it's implied that they are not originally from the Eternal Cities, rather they either built them after they got banished underground, or the cities as a whole got moved to the underground during the banishing. This would mean that the Nox used to live above ground, so the Eternal cities are not their original homeland. Smoughtown has a great video about the Eternal cities. I highly recommend giving it a watch! It's fascinating ^^
The Numen being skyfaring isn't that weird, I don't think. We have ship-like depictions in ancient/Ulh/Uld dynasty stonework, but they are oddly of the ship's backs, if we look at them as ships, I guess. Suspiciously similar structures jut out from the ground in that blue flower field with the red dancer. The Numen might have had stone vimana or something like that. Anything goes at this point.
Always love MM videos that focus on the differences due to localization. Hopefully you and Bandit are able to stream Elden Ring together, I'll be there if so!
I don't have any other place to put this thought but ever since they announced this shadow realm I've kept wondering... what are the Lands "Between"? Like what are they Between? Maybe a realm of shadow and a realm of light? Like the Lands Between casts a shadow due to it being "in between".
My personal theory (currently) is that the Lands Between are a sort of launching pad or middleground. A world which brances out and connects to all these other realms and dimensions. So it is literally a world "between" worlds. It feels similar to the Norse tree of life (Yggrassil). The roots of which, branch out into various different realms.
Your level of quality + Elden Ring is going to be an absolute treat! I hope some of the Zelda viewers will give Elden Ring or any FromSoftware title a chance especially if they love lore!
I believe when Marika arrived in the lands between, she took control of the primordial erdtree, the crucible, and drew out the parts she wanted to keep in order to create the erdtree as we know it, her golden order. I think the tree we see in the shadow lands is what remains of the crucible. All of the undesireable aspects that Marika separated from her Erdtree, banished beyond an extra-dimensional veil. A tree's roots grow deeply throughout the land, it's possible she needed to banish an entire domain beyond the veil in order to separate the erdtree she wanted in its ideal form from the rest of the crucible, inhabitants and all.
with all that's been shown about the DLC, I think the most concrete aspect here is that the land of shadows is a place that embodies rejection and severance. you enter the land of shadow by reaching the body of someone who has purposefully split his soul from his body, where many enemies draw from aspects of the erdtree and the golden order purposefully rejected, like the crucible and the omen, as well as possibly the flame of frenzy going by the worm face creature. there's even talk of the sins of war in the land of shadows. the golden order attempting to sweep that under the rug makes perfect sense. this continued with messmer too, who's design takes influence from both dragons and serpents. where there is a fair about of information on current dragons on elden ring, the history of dragons in the lands between is relatively unknown. serpents are more enigmatic, but have some aspect to them deemed blasphemous. the erdtree being a parasitic plant grafted onto another tree is also something I could see being swept under the rug and hidden in a space some of that can even extend to the main game, but there's a clear theme here: if someone does not bend to the golden order, the first two strategies used are to either turn the opposition into an example or isolate them from everything else and obscure them from common knowledge.
(sorry for the novel lol) it just popped into my head but since Marika`s age is called "age of the Erdtree" and the Erdtree changes to represent the age the world is in then the Erdtree is a representation of Marika herself (which by now most people can say she is not that good of a person) so the shadow of the Erdtree could represent her inner or true self while the one we see in the base game is what she wants you to see which is all encompassing, golden, perfect and eternal but her true self is a rotten, dark, shadow of herself. this could also explain the small golden thread of a tree entwined in the shadow being Radagon which could mean that Radagon is the last vestiges of Markia`s orderly or "good" side. the side that cares about their family and kingdom. dipping into VaatiVidyas analysis, he mentions that Marika waged war in this land and won and based off of the wickerman she displayed this in a way that was far more brutal then her wars in the lands between. the land of Shadows is possibly Marikas biggest secret and most likely will be the most brutal, cruel, inhumane, disgusting act of violence and war she has ever committed to a group of people and will most likely outdo all of the other atrocities she has done.
With the DLC on the way I cannot wait to unravel more and more as we get closer to june. This is my favourite part of the lore journey. Trying to piece things together before the game is actually out ^^
one thing i notice, the curtains over the erdtree's shadow reminded me of the queen's bedchamber, so i went there and i noticed that there are 6 curtains; which are the same amount of divine towers. just a neat thing i noticed, not sure if it's helpful or not
That is a great observation! I do believe that the towers have a strong connection to... whatever is going on with the land of Shadow. Like, perhaps they "uphold" the seal on the shadow realm somehow. Very helpful indeed ^^
Something that intrigued me is the name of the Erdtree in the french version; it's called World-Tree (Arbre-Monde). IRL the world tree everyone knows of is Yggdrasil, a world that connects all worlds within nordic mythology. What if the Erdtree is not only connected to others of its kind, as seen in the Elden Beast fight, but also manages to connect between 'layers' of a same world? It can show the shadow of the light, it shows a mirror. This might trivially explain why we see the player phantoms and even NPCs... This means that Marika, knowing her rivalry with the Hornsent, might've basically sealed Messmer and the Hornsent in the Land of Shadow, so that Messmer's army may forever crusade; and so devastate, the people who abused Marika's people, forever, a cruel vengeance..
For a long time now, there have been a lot of theorys involving the massive gap in the center of the lands between. I wonder if the shadow of the eerdtree dlc takes place in that land that once occupyed that space in the center of lands between. Logically it might make since since the shadow land has often been refered to as the first place set foot by queen m.
Haven’t gotten too far into the video But notice that in the trailer there is a shadow figure having daggers thrown at him. His look is just like the shaded enemies in hero’s grave that have to have light shined on them to attack. I’m thinking the land of shadow is like the reflection you see in water puddles.
I hate that we don't know the minimum details about where we are lol. Because of this everything happening within the DLC has no context. Why are we traveling to this mysterious place by touching a blood ravaged Miquella? Did he send us back through time AND space? Does this realm exist inside his body? What's happening?? lol
@@MonsterMaze This is why my fav game is Bloodborne. I had no idea what was happening but I knew I was a hunter and I hunted beasts lol. In ER its You're a *tarnished* and you're guided by *grace* in *the lands between* to mend *the elden ring* I have no idea what most of these words mean! lol
Monsters Maze you should start making content on all the Dark Souls/Soulsborne games. I haven't played any outside of Elden Ring, but I've been meaning to do it eventually. Would love to see lore deep dives and theories on them when I do get around to it.
Pretty solid theory. I'm holding fast that this Land of Shadow is actually the site of The Primordial Crucible. In the official screenshot of the Shadow Tree you can see the golden sap of the tree literally being collected by a huge building in a bowl or 'crucible'. That along with all the other crucible friendly symbolism and monster designs and I'm convinced we are seeing the Crucible. It would also make sense as it seems to be a land that has been hidden away by Marika probably after she conquered it and decided to overthrow the Crucible and replace it with the Golden Order/Erdtree. But who really knows, it is FromSoft we're talking about here. 😂
Indeed, with FromSoft you can count on it that they will come up with something crazy. Something no one has even considered, haha ^^ I sure do hope we get more lore on the crucible!
We see the Erdtree in game in multiple place's, showing both the top and roots separated by a ring. If you go to godricks Grace. You can see this image on the tower above. I believe the Erdtree we see is the roots of the Erdtree we see in the dlc. Shadow of the Erdtree is just that we will be in the shade or shadow of the Erdtree. Originally called the great tree before being effected by the greater will. The veil is there to dim the sun light. The DLC Erdtree is sun starved, you can see its dying because of this and it like all plants will bend and grow towards any source of light. We see this happening it's bending to the left. So why she place a veil over it, there are multiple reasons. But anyway in Elden ring we are upside down looking up at the roots, born at the base of the tree in the lands between, which are between the surface and the earth
Thinking that Messmer's flame could be the reason Marika took away the tarnished grave and asked them to die away from the lands between. We see the red grace of the helphen before we die to the scion or butterflies at the beginning. But we were saved by the flask of crimson tears given by Melina. I believe we see the grace of Miquella after this, too many events involve him in the start of the game. When we die outside the lands between we are outside of the Erdtree. And can be reborn without feeding it, and that was Marikas final gift to the tarnished. Not to be parasited on through the roots.
This isn't really related to the video but Ranni's ending isn't really mistranslated. It's more like some details got lost in translation that can make it easy to interpret the English text the wrong way.
Agreed. It still conveys the same message overal. I remember getting tons of comments about mistranslations on my Age of Stars video from way back when, but the differences felt pretty negligible aside from a bit of nuance here and there.
@@MonsterMaze Totally! And I definitely get why people jump to mistranslation accusations. The "into fear, doubt, and loneliness" line in particular sounds really sinister, and it makes players think they made the wrong choice. But, in reality, that line is directed at her and you, not everyone else. It's you two who are setting out into fear and doubt and loneliness because, for Ranni's plan, the order must be separated from the world of men. That's why her ring says she thinks it's something she should shoulder alone. She's literally walking into the unknown with the chance of never seeing anyone else ever again, and you decided to join her. Either way, great video! I'm excited to see you do more Elden Ring content with the DLC approaching.
hell yea, i love your content in general!! It sucks that totk kinda screwed us over, but branching into new media is always fun! I love elden ring and would love to see more elden content
Tears of the Kingdom really got Zelda TH-cam jumping ship & pivoting to Elden Ring content lmaoo. It's hilarious to see honestly but I get why so many are pivoting. Looking forward to more of your Elden Ring content
Sometimes a game simply doesn't provide the material you were hoping for. I am primarily focussed on lore, and TotK's focus is almost entirely on gameplay. Which is fine, but it means that I myself a very little to work with :( But it's okay, there will be other games in the future! 1 game does not dictate the future of the entire franschise. It also gives me a chance to branch out a bit more, which is something I've been wanting to do even before TotK came out. There are so many great IPs out there with amazing lore ^^
No one seems to be talking about, but the shade tree looks a lot more like a root bundle than a tree. My guess is its just the Erdtree's metaphysical roots.
I think it's interesting that the description from the trailer says the Lands of Shadow are obscured "_by_" the Erdtree, not from it, as if the Erdtree itself is what's keeping the Lands of Shadow hidden somehow. Which makes sense considering Marika is said to have sealed this land away, and she is the vessel of the Elden Ring and by extension the Erdtree. The baldachin-like veil in the sky even seems to be emanating from the tree, and to me looks like a parallel to the golden rays of light shining down from the Erdtree in the Lands Between. I still don't know what to make of the Greattree's existence. Apparently in Japanese the word is used interchangeably with "golden tree," but it's strange that its only mentioned in the English localization when refererring to the roots of the Erdtree (which must be truly ancient, since they're literally the foundation of the Lands Between and extend to every corner of its landmass). Also, if the catacombs were specifically built at the roots of the Greattree for the purpose of Erdtree burial, wouldn't it have made more sense to simply build them at the actual Erdtree roots instead of the roots of a tree that were connected to it? What's the point in that extra degree of separation?
The golden rays do indeed seem to parallel the veil doesn't it? I'm still a bit on the fence when it comes to the Greattree. There are signs that ancient cultures refer to a large tree of some kind. But it could just as well be because of a prophecy regarding the coming age of the Erdtree.
If ya gotta make a Zelda reference you gotta make a Zelda reference. If it makes sense I don't see any issue with it. I'd imagine Zelda had influence on Fromsoft.
Yes! Both incoperate real life mythology, and both come from the minds of Japanese writers. There are definitely a few overlapping themes between the two. It's a very easy transition to make for me ^^
Im not entirely sure that everyone can see the Erdtree. When you get Leyndel, Boc acts surprised and is totally struck by awe and he asks you if you've seen it, as if it couldn't be seen from anywhere already. I think the Erdtree is more symbolic of the god(s) that rule and the mechanism by which they rule. Also, the Golden Order seems to be based on the principle of Yin-Yang. Read the items descriptions of Law of Causality and Law of Regression (the two main tenets of the Golden Order) incantations, they very much seem to be, at worst losely, based on Yin-Yang, which again is an opposition duality (dark/light, hot/cold, day/night, good/bad, and so on). So with all that in Mind, the Erdtree in the Lands Between was likely created by Marika to hide the Land of Shadow and, potentially, the origin of the Crucible. The bright, glowing tree we see is the opposite component of the shadowy tree in the Land of Shadow, and completes the duality. Only, it appears as if Marika's work has begun to fail, or come apart, and has created problems that threaten the existence of the place we know as the Lands Between. None of that is an indictment on the morality of Marika or the Golden Order, because it seems like there is a lot of evidence to suggest it/they are the bad guys, but in a not so obvious way.
I feel like the erdtree is dead, and we're the only ones who can see the golden protection of it (as well as the signs of grace). I think the only real part of it is the brown sliver of it sitting behind the Leyndel throne. I think it's being projected by Marika and/or Radagon as a last-ditch effort to inspire someone to save it.
I concur. If you choose the Frenzied flame ending, the Erdtree gets reduced to a stump. The upper section (the glowy part) is gone, while the base remains and looks like a regular tree again. Perhaps that's all that remains. A wooden stump which emits a golden "hologram" of a full tree ^^
The erdtree is not what it seems. If you do the golden mask questline, he points to parts of the erdtree where the real tree can be seen through the illusion.
I wonder if it exsits in a plane of reality that brings it closer to some of the outer gods (Gloam-eye queen, Formless Mother (since Mohg was trying to elevate him to godhood by way of connecting him to the blood goddess the same way Marika is connected to the greater will or the way Malenia is connected to the Sealed God), the unnamed Twinbird God (Shadow...Death, they seem to fall in lime with eachother), The Snake god and/or the Fell God of the Fire Giants)
That or maybe Miquella created the Original Realm of Shadow out of fear or just simple protection (causing it to be uprooted from a similar reality) when he felt he was being taken from his Haligtree by Mogh, wherethen after I assume Mesemer goes looking for Miquella to only be pulled in out of his own free will....I think that'd at least explain his motive for setting the realm ablaze but maybe it could also just be a "I seek more power" thing :p
Or orrr perhaps it has something to do with The Ancient Dragon God and how time diliation could possibly be involved with a poket dimision...but I wouldnt see how that would be connected with Miquella (I know Godwyn Befriended Lansax though so theres at least A godly connection a bit) though I mention this because of both Messmer's eyes, the Bear incant. seen in the trailer (look up Zulie's bear eyes video), and the way the veil blends into the tree above the lettering in your thumbnail almost looks like a dragon grappiling the tree with its wings spread wide, the head almost looking directly at the tarnished
![ILLSLICK - KILLSHOT REMIX [FULL VERSION]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/RIK8RrqIAzE/mqdefault.jpg)
![The Complete Story of Destiny! From origins to Shadowkeep [Timeline and Lore explained]](/img/n.gif)
This is an amazing surprise! I recall you wanting to cover Elden Ring but you found it intricate than Zelda lore. Im so pleased! Thanks for all of your efforts! It is nice to see something new from you!
I am so happy you are producing content on Elden Ring. Your Zelda videos are among my favorites and Elden Ring has some of my favorite lore and worldbuilding of any piece of media ever, so this is a match made in heaven for me. Thanks for being awesome and I look forward to your future dives into the Lands Between!
That means a lot to hear! I've always enjoyed the lore of many different IP's and only sticking with one universe (Zelda) is starting to feel a bit limiting. I'm sure the algorythm will punish me for it initially, but It's something I will just have to go through ^^
Algorithm must be doing ok, I’ve never watched your videos but was brought here, and am enjoying your content.
Don, Your videos are freaking incredible!
Weather its your sharp mind and thoughts that pick up on subtle details or the brilliant editing and animation work.
Please keep up the great work man!
Thanks a bunch!
Monster Maze expanding his horizons. Awesome.
The Numen boats in the trailer behind the dancer and the masks that look like the one Tanith wears has me really excited for the lore we're going to get
So excited for this, and the new Zelda to Elden Ring pipeline.
souls games are what ocarina of time felt like when i was eight
Zelden Ring
@@moddedpan4252Nintendo could print money if they allowed fromsoft to make a Zelda. They let capcom do three…
Dark souls feels like a natural evolution of ocarina of time. Not saying it's objectively better but that it builds on it.
@@ciro_costa yeah I wouldn’t say it’s better, but definitely a maturity. I would loooooove to let fromsoft do an OOT remake.
If the Shadow Realm existed as part of the Lands Between it almost have to be in the middle sea, made even more likely by the fact you can see the sea drop suddenly into a giant waterfall that spans a circle all around the middle sea, relatively close to the coastline
You are absolutely right. That waterfall in a very odd location
The best part about the Elden Ring DLC will be Monster Mazes videos on iy
I am primarily an Elden Ring lore guy, but I do dip my toes into Zelda lore and appreciated your videos. Looking forward to what you have to contribute to this community.
A couple NPCs ask if you can even see the Erdtree. Maybe the Shadow tree is what people see when they aren’t blessed by the Erdtree
happy to see a zelda lore youtuber moving to a franchise that doesnt hate lore
It’s funny bc I’d argue half the people who play from soft games have no idea what the lore even is lmao but they like the gameplay. That seems to be Zelda’s main goal now, gameplay over lore. I’m not gonna say they hate lore though that’s a little extreme lol
too bad the algorythm hates this
They dont hate, but they sure as hell dont care about it one bit lol.@@TheKniteOwl2686
I will still make plenty of Zelda videos, but I also want to cover some other stuff in between ^^
@@bam_693 I refuse to be a slave to the algorythm
ive just started getting into elden ring lore due to my lack of interest in totk so this video comes at the perfect time! love your content no matter what you cover
The Shadow Realm is where you go when you lose a children's trading card game.
Yes, I'm so pumped to see these great lore TH-camrs head over to the FromSoft games. There's so much to dig into! "We are thinking on the basest of planes. What we need, are more eyes"
Especially since Miyazaki makes games for lore hunters intentionally, and in Zelda they are just like "Honestly, we haven't thought that hard about it"
Thrilled to see you bring your excellent style to the Elden Ring community!! Great video 😊
Always a treat to see an upload from you, doubly so that you're exploring one of my *other* favorite games. Glad to see you expanding your horizons
Hell yeah dude.
A thing I've been wondering is wether Messmer and Melina will end up being twins the way Marika's other "M" children are (Mohg + Morgot, Miquella + Milenia).
Also interesting that Messmer, Mohg, and Ranni are all Demigods who are missing a left eye (Ranni's spirit is missing a left eye, it's her doll that is missing its right). Melina too. They all seem to have in common being traitors against the Erdtree / Two Fingers, especially if Melina is indeed the Gloam-eyed Queen.
Given the mystery around the Gloam-eyed Queen and how little information there is about her, I suspect she's a very old figure in the lore. Children of Marika maybe from before she was a God? When she was just a Numen? We've already seen that children of a person who ascends to Godhood themselves become Demigods, in the form of Radagon's children with Renala. If the Lands of Shadow are also where Marika comes from / the lands of the Numen, then are Malina & Messmer her "Numen children" in some way?
Yes! I also speculate that Messmer and Melina are related somehow. They could be among the first of Marika's demi-god children (possibly preceding the golden lineage even). It's easy to forget that Marika had many more children besides the one we meet and fight in the base game. The ones in the walking mausoleums for example.
Im still convinced that Meline is indeed the Gloam-eyed queen. All signs point to her. Perhaps her and Messmer are the "rebels" of the family who tried to challenge her rule in the distant past. And we know they ultimately lost. The gloam-eyed queen was defeated and her source of power sealed by Maliketh, and Messmer... well... he seems to have been banished to the shadow realm ^^
@@MonsterMaze I think all of the Omen in the shunning grounds with their horns still attached are also implied to be Marika's children, as they only granted that option to royalty. I also think all of the red haired misbegotten are Marika/Radagon's children but I don't have much evidence for it, just the one with Radagon's sword.
Was a big fan of your content when I was playing BotW. Happy to have you covering Elden Ring as well
I am all in for more Eldin Ring, I cannot wait to jump back into it when this DLC drops. I'm glad to see you make your return to the lore!
Very happy to see you making videos about Elden Ring Lore. Your point of view and editing are a great addition to this community.
Thank you so much! I feel very welcomed indeed. Such a great community ^^
Don, the fact that you focus on my 2 favorite games (Zelda & Elden Ring obviously) makes you probably one of my favorite content creators on the platform.
not only that but you are also just a very talented narrator, and you just seem cool.
stay awsome brother, love your work! ❤️
So this is what you were working on, monster maze? Cant wait to watch it fully!
Great video my dude! So excited to see what you are cooking up next
Thanks a buddle man! Sorry fot the late response, haha
I love how you connected it all to the Great Deku tree and the Twili. Can't wait to see which timeline the dlc falls into...
Im calling the downfall timeline ;)
I always watched your zelda videos so it’s nice to see you doing Elden ring man
Side note: I thought miquella / st Trina a somewhat reference to the Zelda franchise
I believe the shadowed tree is the crucible, which would explain why the erdtree/Marika hid it. The crucible seems to be the opposite of the erdtree the erdtree showing order and the crucible showing chaos. The title can be interpreted as the crucible being overshadowed by the erdtree, and not just destroyed like a lot of people thought it was. The way it looks could also be because of the golden orders attempt at destroying it. Another interesting thing I noticed was on the map where the erdtree is there are golden rays of light the look very similar to the dark vails we see in the trailer.
The Crucible is stated in several item descriptions to be the initial stage of the Erdtree, its primordial form.
Very solid interpretation for sure! The crucible needs more lore exposition. We barely know anything about it beyond the basics ^^
I think the oroboros is symbolized by Messmer and the Erdtree(s). One tree is feeding from the other and also Miquella and Messmer are somehow connected to each other.
I love all these “zeldatubers” covering Elden Ring. Great video MM, can’t wait to hear more of your theories
hey! honestly really great to see you venturing out to other series - followed the Zelda stuff for ages and was super pleased to see the high quality I've come to expect from your videos exploring something else. The first of many I hope!!!
i feel like the most important part of the shadow thing about the dlc's title and the zone is metaphorical. it's the shadow of the erdtree as in its secret, hidden, dirty history, where marika did some nasty stuff to gain power, like destroying the og erdtree and using it to make our own and then she hid that place and those events under the rag.
I just noticed you have over 150k subs! I subbed when you had like 20k. I thought your production quality was too high for a small channel, so it’s nice you're getting the recognition you deserve.
Rock on, glad to you jump on this!
You have a similar theory as mine that I posted on Bandit's channel/comment section. Good to see I'm not alone. Yours is obviously waaay more fleshed out! 😅
Makes me wonder if the ErdTree is actually dead but the idea of it (compare to religion in a sense) but that visual or knowledge is hidden from view, veiled. But that power to have over beings, that idea.... is a tool.
I'm starting to wonder if Marika had a dirty secret, or.... she was controlled by the Elden Beast to a certain extent since she was the vessel for the Elden Ring. Possibly coaxed into accepting what was most likely portrayed as a gift of God hood, but literally forces said vessel to become a slave. Maybe she couldn't be controlled 100% so enter Radagon. Not by her choice, by the Beast's? Then all of the events unfold. Her having children might not have been part of the plan originally and her actually rebelling against the greater will. To me, the Tree/Beast needs souls to survive. There's a reason why everyone keeps wanting to burn it down. It would be freedom
Glad to hear that there are people who are on the same page as me. You can only fit so much into a YT comment, so I am sure your theory is just as fleshed out ^^
Marika seems to have had a plethora of "dirty secrets" haha. Including her secret plan to call the Tarnished back to the Lands Between.
A Monster Maze Elden Ring lore video?!Nice!!
My theory is that the Numen came with the Elden Ring/Beast when it came as a shooting star from space. If it crashed in the middle of the map and made a huge crater (Deeproot Depths are DEEP DOWN) then they could’ve emerged and created the Eternal Cities down there.
New Monster Maze is always a blessing
I went to the inner edge of the map, looked into the middle for about 20minutes i swear you can see structures out there in the dark, plus bright red embers floating everywhere
Oh my, i love your Zelda videos and your cadence is great so when i saw this pop up, i was very excited.
Aha! This should be a treat. Your granular/meticulous dissections were made for Elden Ring / Souls games.
I am the most old-school of Zelda fans, like yourself, but I'm quite new to Fromsoft/Miyazaki but it warms my heart to see the massive crossover in the fandoms of Zelda and Souls Games. Playing ER for the first time when it came out.... I really did feel a glimpse of that AWE that I felt back in '98 when OOT dropped.
Indeed, 3D Zelda games were one of the many inspirations of Miyazaki. I'll probably leave a comment when done viewing too. Love your content!
Thank you! Both IP's warrent that classic "video game archeologist" approach to uncover the lore, so they do indeed fit together very well!
So I remember Bandit made a video about Marika and his theory is that the land of the Numen are the Eternal Cities, and a big reason for this is how the Black Knives apparently are Numen women with close ties to Marika according to their armor. And Rogier states that the Black Knives are Scions of the Eternal City. So could the wording of underworld also be quite literal and it's ba world under the Lands Between such as Nokron or Noxstella?
From what I understand, the Nox who live in the eternal cities were banished underground by the Greater Will. They do indeed share a common ancestory with the Numen. But it's implied that they are not originally from the Eternal Cities, rather they either built them after they got banished underground, or the cities as a whole got moved to the underground during the banishing. This would mean that the Nox used to live above ground, so the Eternal cities are not their original homeland.
Smoughtown has a great video about the Eternal cities. I highly recommend giving it a watch! It's fascinating ^^
@@MonsterMaze Ah ok, so the might have originally come from the Land of Shadow. That makes sense.
The Numen being skyfaring isn't that weird, I don't think. We have ship-like depictions in ancient/Ulh/Uld dynasty stonework, but they are oddly of the ship's backs, if we look at them as ships, I guess. Suspiciously similar structures jut out from the ground in that blue flower field with the red dancer. The Numen might have had stone vimana or something like that. Anything goes at this point.
Always love MM videos that focus on the differences due to localization. Hopefully you and Bandit are able to stream Elden Ring together, I'll be there if so!
I am 1000% down for a cross-over stream with Bandit!
What if the Erdtree stopped producing sap because this shadow tree is draining it?
One of my fave Zelda creators tackling Elden Ring is just giving me all the serotonin ☺️
I don't have any other place to put this thought but ever since they announced this shadow realm I've kept wondering... what are the Lands "Between"?
Like what are they Between? Maybe a realm of shadow and a realm of light?
Like the Lands Between casts a shadow due to it being "in between".
My personal theory (currently) is that the Lands Between are a sort of launching pad or middleground. A world which brances out and connects to all these other realms and dimensions. So it is literally a world "between" worlds. It feels similar to the Norse tree of life (Yggrassil). The roots of which, branch out into various different realms.
I like the fact that you promised to make no more Zelda comparisons in the video and stopped using the Zelda OST. I love details like this.
Cool to see you do other non-zelda lore videos. I've played Elden Ring but haven't picked it up in a while!
Opa! Novidades no canal. Muito bom, apesar de nunca ter jogado Elden Ring fiz questão de vir aqui assistir o seu vídeo. Parabéns.
Your level of quality + Elden Ring is going to be an absolute treat! I hope some of the Zelda viewers will give Elden Ring or any FromSoftware title a chance especially if they love lore!
I believe when Marika arrived in the lands between, she took control of the primordial erdtree, the crucible, and drew out the parts she wanted to keep in order to create the erdtree as we know it, her golden order. I think the tree we see in the shadow lands is what remains of the crucible. All of the undesireable aspects that Marika separated from her Erdtree, banished beyond an extra-dimensional veil. A tree's roots grow deeply throughout the land, it's possible she needed to banish an entire domain beyond the veil in order to separate the erdtree she wanted in its ideal form from the rest of the crucible, inhabitants and all.
with all that's been shown about the DLC, I think the most concrete aspect here is that the land of shadows is a place that embodies rejection and severance.
you enter the land of shadow by reaching the body of someone who has purposefully split his soul from his body, where many enemies draw from aspects of the erdtree and the golden order purposefully rejected, like the crucible and the omen, as well as possibly the flame of frenzy going by the worm face creature. there's even talk of the sins of war in the land of shadows. the golden order attempting to sweep that under the rug makes perfect sense.
this continued with messmer too, who's design takes influence from both dragons and serpents. where there is a fair about of information on current dragons on elden ring, the history of dragons in the lands between is relatively unknown. serpents are more enigmatic, but have some aspect to them deemed blasphemous.
the erdtree being a parasitic plant grafted onto another tree is also something I could see being swept under the rug and hidden in a space
some of that can even extend to the main game, but there's a clear theme here:
if someone does not bend to the golden order, the first two strategies used are to either turn the opposition into an example or isolate them from everything else and obscure them from common knowledge.
Nice! I hope Zeltik and NBC would cover Elden Ring as well that would be amazing
great video! I know it didn't do as well as your average Zelda video. But I hope you stick with it to buile up that audience!
(sorry for the novel lol) it just popped into my head but since Marika`s age is called "age of the Erdtree" and the Erdtree changes to represent the age the world is in then the Erdtree is a representation of Marika herself (which by now most people can say she is not that good of a person) so the shadow of the Erdtree could represent her inner or true self while the one we see in the base game is what she wants you to see which is all encompassing, golden, perfect and eternal but her true self is a rotten, dark, shadow of herself.
this could also explain the small golden thread of a tree entwined in the shadow being Radagon which could mean that Radagon is the last vestiges of Markia`s orderly or "good" side. the side that cares about their family and kingdom.
dipping into VaatiVidyas analysis, he mentions that Marika waged war in this land and won and based off of the wickerman she displayed this in a way that was far more brutal then her wars in the lands between. the land of Shadows is possibly Marikas biggest secret and most likely will be the most brutal, cruel, inhumane, disgusting act of violence and war she has ever committed to a group of people and will most likely outdo all of the other atrocities she has done.
Comment for algorithm. Plus just happy to see you making content for a game and/or series that will give you a bottomless pit of material
With the DLC on the way I cannot wait to unravel more and more as we get closer to june. This is my favourite part of the lore journey. Trying to piece things together before the game is actually out ^^
one thing i notice, the curtains over the erdtree's shadow reminded me of the queen's bedchamber, so i went there and i noticed that there are 6 curtains; which are the same amount of divine towers.
just a neat thing i noticed, not sure if it's helpful or not
That is a great observation! I do believe that the towers have a strong connection to... whatever is going on with the land of Shadow. Like, perhaps they "uphold" the seal on the shadow realm somehow. Very helpful indeed ^^
Great recent podcast with Ratatoskr, loved your channel before but to see you putting out FromSoft content, just 👍
Love this. Also one day VaatiVidya will do Zelda lore as per his namesake, and balance will return to the Zelden Ring sphere
I've always wanted Vaati to do a Zelda video for that reason, love that I'm not alone on this!
It all comes full circle!
I cant wait for a 10 hour long zelda lore from smoughtowm
This was so well done.
Something that intrigued me is the name of the Erdtree in the french version; it's called World-Tree (Arbre-Monde). IRL the world tree everyone knows of is Yggdrasil, a world that connects all worlds within nordic mythology. What if the Erdtree is not only connected to others of its kind, as seen in the Elden Beast fight, but also manages to connect between 'layers' of a same world? It can show the shadow of the light, it shows a mirror. This might trivially explain why we see the player phantoms and even NPCs...
This means that Marika, knowing her rivalry with the Hornsent, might've basically sealed Messmer and the Hornsent in the Land of Shadow, so that Messmer's army may forever crusade; and so devastate, the people who abused Marika's people, forever, a cruel vengeance..
I love the Zelda music used for an Elden Ring video XD
For a long time now, there have been a lot of theorys involving the massive gap in the center of the lands between. I wonder if the shadow of the eerdtree dlc takes place in that land that once occupyed that space in the center of lands between. Logically it might make since since the shadow land has often been refered to as the first place set foot by queen m.
Looks like you are going to the Shadow Realm, Jimbo.
Monster maze is gonna tell us all about the journey and bandit can tell us all about the bosses... He really drew the short straw on this one lol!
Haven’t gotten too far into the video
But notice that in the trailer there is a shadow figure having daggers thrown at him. His look is just like the shaded enemies in hero’s grave that have to have light shined on them to attack.
I’m thinking the land of shadow is like the reflection you see in water puddles.
Engagement to help the transition to more lore from more stuff.
Some cool and unique perspectives from Monster Maze that I haven’t heard from other FromSoft TH-camrs 😃👍🏽
I hate that we don't know the minimum details about where we are lol. Because of this everything happening within the DLC has no context. Why are we traveling to this mysterious place by touching a blood ravaged Miquella? Did he send us back through time AND space? Does this realm exist inside his body? What's happening?? lol
"What is happening?!" pretty much sums up Souls lore, haha
@@MonsterMaze This is why my fav game is Bloodborne. I had no idea what was happening but I knew I was a hunter and I hunted beasts lol. In ER its You're a *tarnished* and you're guided by *grace* in *the lands between* to mend *the elden ring* I have no idea what most of these words mean! lol
Monsters Maze you should start making content on all the Dark Souls/Soulsborne games. I haven't played any outside of Elden Ring, but I've been meaning to do it eventually. Would love to see lore deep dives and theories on them when I do get around to it.
Pretty solid theory.
I'm holding fast that this Land of Shadow is actually the site of The Primordial Crucible. In the official screenshot of the Shadow Tree you can see the golden sap of the tree literally being collected by a huge building in a bowl or 'crucible'. That along with all the other crucible friendly symbolism and monster designs and I'm convinced we are seeing the Crucible. It would also make sense as it seems to be a land that has been hidden away by Marika probably after she conquered it and decided to overthrow the Crucible and replace it with the Golden Order/Erdtree.
But who really knows, it is FromSoft we're talking about here. 😂
Indeed, with FromSoft you can count on it that they will come up with something crazy. Something no one has even considered, haha ^^
I sure do hope we get more lore on the crucible!
Miquella sends the Tarnished to the "Shadow Realm" to duel with Yami Yugi aka The Pharoh
Imagine the the Erdtree being the shadow and the shadow tree beinf the actual tree .
We see the Erdtree in game in multiple place's, showing both the top and roots separated by a ring. If you go to godricks Grace. You can see this image on the tower above. I believe the Erdtree we see is the roots of the Erdtree we see in the dlc. Shadow of the Erdtree is just that we will be in the shade or shadow of the Erdtree. Originally called the great tree before being effected by the greater will. The veil is there to dim the sun light. The DLC Erdtree is sun starved, you can see its dying because of this and it like all plants will bend and grow towards any source of light. We see this happening it's bending to the left. So why she place a veil over it, there are multiple reasons. But anyway in Elden ring we are upside down looking up at the roots, born at the base of the tree in the lands between, which are between the surface and the earth
Thinking that Messmer's flame could be the reason Marika took away the tarnished grave and asked them to die away from the lands between. We see the red grace of the helphen before we die to the scion or butterflies at the beginning. But we were saved by the flask of crimson tears given by Melina. I believe we see the grace of Miquella after this, too many events involve him in the start of the game.
When we die outside the lands between we are outside of the Erdtree. And can be reborn without feeding it, and that was Marikas final gift to the tarnished. Not to be parasited on through the roots.
Not the biggest lore fan for these types of games but this was a really good video. Keep it up.
Great to see you back on ER. Your old videos were great.
This isn't really related to the video but Ranni's ending isn't really mistranslated. It's more like some details got lost in translation that can make it easy to interpret the English text the wrong way.
Agreed. It still conveys the same message overal. I remember getting tons of comments about mistranslations on my Age of Stars video from way back when, but the differences felt pretty negligible aside from a bit of nuance here and there.
@@MonsterMaze Totally! And I definitely get why people jump to mistranslation accusations. The "into fear, doubt, and loneliness" line in particular sounds really sinister, and it makes players think they made the wrong choice. But, in reality, that line is directed at her and you, not everyone else. It's you two who are setting out into fear and doubt and loneliness because, for Ranni's plan, the order must be separated from the world of men. That's why her ring says she thinks it's something she should shoulder alone. She's literally walking into the unknown with the chance of never seeing anyone else ever again, and you decided to join her.
Either way, great video! I'm excited to see you do more Elden Ring content with the DLC approaching.
hell yea, i love your content in general!! It sucks that totk kinda screwed us over, but branching into new media is always fun! I love elden ring and would love to see more elden content
Good catch on the veily evergaol, never considered that one!
Tears of the Kingdom really got Zelda TH-cam jumping ship & pivoting to Elden Ring content lmaoo. It's hilarious to see honestly but I get why so many are pivoting. Looking forward to more of your Elden Ring content
Sometimes a game simply doesn't provide the material you were hoping for. I am primarily focussed on lore, and TotK's focus is almost entirely on gameplay. Which is fine, but it means that I myself a very little to work with :(
But it's okay, there will be other games in the future! 1 game does not dictate the future of the entire franschise. It also gives me a chance to branch out a bit more, which is something I've been wanting to do even before TotK came out. There are so many great IPs out there with amazing lore ^^
The shadow realm kinda behaviors like the Quincy shadows world in bleach…..almost identical
I feel like the Erdtree is sitting on top of the Shadow Tree so we can’t see it. What we see if underneath the Erdtree looking up
No one seems to be talking about, but the shade tree looks a lot more like a root bundle than a tree. My guess is its just the Erdtree's metaphysical roots.
the land of shadow being an underworld, would also fit the theory that messmer is marikas stillborn child
Ooooooh I like that! I hadn't heard of the stillborn theory yet. That is fascinating ^^
I think it's interesting that the description from the trailer says the Lands of Shadow are obscured "_by_" the Erdtree, not from it, as if the Erdtree itself is what's keeping the Lands of Shadow hidden somehow. Which makes sense considering Marika is said to have sealed this land away, and she is the vessel of the Elden Ring and by extension the Erdtree. The baldachin-like veil in the sky even seems to be emanating from the tree, and to me looks like a parallel to the golden rays of light shining down from the Erdtree in the Lands Between.
I still don't know what to make of the Greattree's existence. Apparently in Japanese the word is used interchangeably with "golden tree," but it's strange that its only mentioned in the English localization when refererring to the roots of the Erdtree (which must be truly ancient, since they're literally the foundation of the Lands Between and extend to every corner of its landmass). Also, if the catacombs were specifically built at the roots of the Greattree for the purpose of Erdtree burial, wouldn't it have made more sense to simply build them at the actual Erdtree roots instead of the roots of a tree that were connected to it? What's the point in that extra degree of separation?
The golden rays do indeed seem to parallel the veil doesn't it? I'm still a bit on the fence when it comes to the Greattree. There are signs that ancient cultures refer to a large tree of some kind. But it could just as well be because of a prophecy regarding the coming age of the Erdtree.
If ya gotta make a Zelda reference you gotta make a Zelda reference. If it makes sense I don't see any issue with it. I'd imagine Zelda had influence on Fromsoft.
Yes! Both incoperate real life mythology, and both come from the minds of Japanese writers. There are definitely a few overlapping themes between the two. It's a very easy transition to make for me ^^
Physically disconnected could just mean that it is an island but inaccessible by regular means.
Just about to see Dune2. Can’t wait to watch the video afterwards!!
Have fun!
@@MonsterMaze Will do!
I hate that my shadow keeps following me
Drive a stake through it!
I love your zelda videos and i hope with the new DLC coming soon for Elden Ring i hope well get more Elden Ring content
Commenting to help algorithm we need more fromsoftware!
Im not entirely sure that everyone can see the Erdtree. When you get Leyndel, Boc acts surprised and is totally struck by awe and he asks you if you've seen it, as if it couldn't be seen from anywhere already. I think the Erdtree is more symbolic of the god(s) that rule and the mechanism by which they rule. Also, the Golden Order seems to be based on the principle of Yin-Yang. Read the items descriptions of Law of Causality and Law of Regression (the two main tenets of the Golden Order) incantations, they very much seem to be, at worst losely, based on Yin-Yang, which again is an opposition duality (dark/light, hot/cold, day/night, good/bad, and so on).
So with all that in Mind, the Erdtree in the Lands Between was likely created by Marika to hide the Land of Shadow and, potentially, the origin of the Crucible. The bright, glowing tree we see is the opposite component of the shadowy tree in the Land of Shadow, and completes the duality. Only, it appears as if Marika's work has begun to fail, or come apart, and has created problems that threaten the existence of the place we know as the Lands Between.
None of that is an indictment on the morality of Marika or the Golden Order, because it seems like there is a lot of evidence to suggest it/they are the bad guys, but in a not so obvious way.
Great oberservations right there!
I feel like the erdtree is dead, and we're the only ones who can see the golden protection of it (as well as the signs of grace). I think the only real part of it is the brown sliver of it sitting behind the Leyndel throne. I think it's being projected by Marika and/or Radagon as a last-ditch effort to inspire someone to save it.
I concur. If you choose the Frenzied flame ending, the Erdtree gets reduced to a stump. The upper section (the glowy part) is gone, while the base remains and looks like a regular tree again. Perhaps that's all that remains. A wooden stump which emits a golden "hologram" of a full tree ^^
Yes I fully support the moving of Zelda tubers moving to Elden Ring lore!
Its cool Zelda players are gettin into Elden Ring, would be cooler if the next zelda game pulled something off like it
The shadow realm? That’s easy, that’s where you go when you lose a yu-gi-oh duel. Next question.
The erdtree is not what it seems. If you do the golden mask questline, he points to parts of the erdtree where the real tree can be seen through the illusion.
zelda and elden ring do work together on a channel very well imo as both are japanese franchises and plagued by english translation errors.
I wonder if it exsits in a plane of reality that brings it closer to some of the outer gods (Gloam-eye queen, Formless Mother (since Mohg was trying to elevate him to godhood by way of connecting him to the blood goddess the same way Marika is connected to the greater will or the way Malenia is connected to the Sealed God), the unnamed Twinbird God (Shadow...Death, they seem to fall in lime with eachother), The Snake god and/or the Fell God of the Fire Giants)
That or maybe Miquella created the Original Realm of Shadow out of fear or just simple protection (causing it to be uprooted from a similar reality) when he felt he was being taken from his Haligtree by Mogh, wherethen after I assume Mesemer goes looking for Miquella to only be pulled in out of his own free will....I think that'd at least explain his motive for setting the realm ablaze but maybe it could also just be a "I seek more power" thing :p
Or orrr perhaps it has something to do with The Ancient Dragon God and how time diliation could possibly be involved with a poket dimision...but I wouldnt see how that would be connected with Miquella (I know Godwyn Befriended Lansax though so theres at least A godly connection a bit) though I mention this because of both Messmer's eyes, the Bear incant. seen in the trailer (look up Zulie's bear eyes video), and the way the veil blends into the tree above the lettering in your thumbnail almost looks like a dragon grappiling the tree with its wings spread wide, the head almost looking directly at the tarnished
Marika's rune is on the moon for some reason. Her and the numen could be from the moon and I want moon DLC damn it 🌔
Not me witching this before I've even played the base game 😅😅