I'M A BIT OUT OF MY DEPTH // Dead Can Dance - Rakim // Composer Reaction & Analysis
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 มิ.ย. 2024
- Bryan reacts to and talks about his thoughts on Rakim (Live Remastered)
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0:00 Intro
00:35 Reaction
06:35 Analysis - Foundation and Variation
09:47 Analysis - Rhythmic Layering
11:52 Analysis - Call and Response
14:11 Analysis - Vibes and Themes
17:05 Analysis - Some Curiosities
18:26 Analysis - Lyrical Dive
23:57 Outro
#reaction #deadcandance #neofolk
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I listen to heavy metal, and I just love Dead Can Dance! Seeing Lisa Gerrard twice, live, pressed me to my seat so hard, I could barely scrape off my back.
Saaaaaaame....🎉
I liked when u made the comment about feeling it in two speeds.....
Dead can dance is heavy as metal but different ... shining vocal Lisa is just a Aaaah
I saw them 3 times. Cried. Every. Time.
@@levanaah I so wish I saw them
Going to a DCD concert you will find yourself in the company of people in tuxes and grunge hippies and everything in between. They are so completely different than anything. Either you get it or you don't. It's a very personal thing. At the 2005 concert American Dreaming was played. I started to cry. I looked to the person next to me and they were crying as well. Because we were EXPERIENCING IT LIVE. Saw them at the Gis theatre in Thessaloniki Greece. Was stunning.
Watch the Toward the Within DVD. Between the songs they answer many of your questions and explain the many instruments involved. The instruments (the Dead) are EVERYTHING.
I absolutely cried both all three times I was lucky enough to see them. The emotion always took over once the show begins!
saw them in Thessaloniki also
Brandon Perry can sing a phone book and it would sound great...
YYYYYEEEESSSSSS!!!!
Hammered Dulcimer played by Lisa Gerard, the female vocalist.
More specific a yangqin; a traditional chinese hammered dulcimer..
Oh, nice! Dead Can Dance is one of my absolute favorite groups! :) Was gonna see them live last year, but they cancelled due to poor health. :(
They have a lot of different music!
So, do I think it was a bad pick? Not really, but they have so much great stuff. 🤷♂
The best concert I ever saw was DCD playing Radio City Music Hall in 2005, with orchestral accompaniment. This song was a special moment in an amazing evening. The string instrument you're hearing is a yangqin, which is a Chinese hammered dulcimer, played by vocalist Lisa Gerrard.
Cultural appropriation is a fascinating topic; I have a story that shines a different light on it. My family is from Texas, and mostly caucasian, yet my brother is one of the foremost experts on Tibetan Buddhism in the country, having studied it passionately most of his life. He has sometimes been accused of cultural appropriation: why should a white dude from Texas be speaking and writing authoritatively about another culture, one that actually currently exists? My answer is, well, genuine passion: he's not in it for bucks or recognition, but because he is so drawn to it. To me that isn't appropriation, that's appreciation -- creatively incorporating the elements he resonates most with into his own synthesis.
Totally agree with your stance on appropriation vs appreciation. To me it's a question of intent. Spending years to study and understand another culture is a pretty good indicator that the person appreciates the culture and isn't trying to use it or abuse it for their own means.
That was an amazing show! I was blown away when they opened with Nerika with an orchestra!
Yes, but does your brother earn an income off of his "appreciation"?
Why yes, of course he does, at least in part; although his interests go well beyond the scope of his paid position. Most of us should be so lucky as to earn a living working with our passion! The great mythologer Joseph Campbell earned an income off his ability to tell myths such that Western laypeople could gain an appreciation for what makes their various belief systems so fascinating; what my brother does is much the same, but for a smaller slice of culture, and with a generally deeper dive.
Here's another example that might be more central to the point of the channel. Several of the best modern bands like Big Big Train, Riverside, and Steven Wilson wear their inspirations on their sleeves. They aren't copying the originals by any means, in fact I see the effect as multiplicative -- as the best ideas of older bands like Yes, Gentle Giant, and Pink Floyd are distilled into new evolving interpretations, which themselves become inspiration for other bands. I find it incredibly exciting personally, and I believe that the members of those older bands appreciate (rather than resent) being someone else's inspiration, so long as they aren't being outright copied, of course. Peace
If you watch the video that corresponds to the concert from which this recording was taken, they explain the origin of their name and their influences. Lisa Gerrard grew up in a a multicultural neighborhood in (Melbourne, I think) and was influenced by a lot of Greek and Middle Eastern music. AFAIK, the hammered dulcimer she plays is Greek. Brendan Perry also has an entire album of Greek Rebetica music (which I highly recommend). The "other language" is not a language proper, but glosolalia. Lisa's singing style, also is a mix of influences, but leans heavily on Bulgarian woman's choral music.
ive been listening to them since the 90s and ive seen them live twice.....i am also a metal head but this is some of the best music ever composed
Lisa Gerrard plays a yangqin (Chinese hammered dulcimer) as well as singing and knitting on stage You should listen to Cocteau Twins "Orange Appled" "Alice" Pearly-Dewdrops Drops" "Caroline's Fingers "Rilkean Heart" (Twinlights EP)
Knitting on stage? Knitting as in yarn crafts???
@@mournblade1066 yes, I saw Dead Can Dance at the Hollywood Bowl and she was knitting while the guy sang his songs.
@@rayname908 Ha! That's too funny.
I've seen them in concert and they are amazing! You feel like you're a tuning fork while in the audience...the sound resonates right through you, very primal and completely in the moment. The whole band is precise and tight but liberating at the same time. If you have a chance to see them live , my GOD, do it!
Spleen And Ideal is still my favourite and gets played regularly.
Would love if you checked out their self titled post punk album! They have such an incredible range in their discography and that one in particular is one of my favorites. It incorporates many elements they later explore on this and other albums but with a distinctively more gloomy post punk sound. Lisa Gerard is absolutely incredible.
I love Dead can Dance! This song emotes such atmosphere.
The "two different speeds" observation is spot on. This is something that Brendan Perry excels at with both percussion and composition. Differing time signatures interacting in an entrancing manner. Also THE DRONE is essential to DCD's music. Even when you can't hear it, it's there.
I haven't scoured the comments but if nobody else has helped place this in good context, of course it's world music but where does it come from? Before this band ended up in this style, they were a dark wave band. Dark wave, post punk, goth, whatever you wanna call it, they come from that counterculture and it's important to keep it in mind even at this deep part of their discography where the dark atmosphere has been multinefariously hued by world histories, real and invented. They were tremendous, poppy songwriters in their early gothy incarnation, showing all the sensitivities and conceptual ideas that you find in this latter day version of them. From early on they relied on a drum machine, much like a lot of their 4AD (record label) similars like the Cocteau Twins, and they also used the dichoctomies of the male baritone versus the female soprano voice (often singing invented pseudolanguage) that were mined, say, in the adjascent metal realm by gothic metal acts like Theatre of Tragedy. Nearly all of the 'dark' minded metalheads of the 80s and 90s were influenced by dark wave of one type or another, and Dead Can Dance is a very classic enduring favourite, crossover hit for listeners with these sorts of tastes.
This is quite deep in thei discography and they're old man/woman, so I think some of the alluring philosophical or mystical depth this band once commanded has softened with age, here, this ends up being a bit too 'new age' as it stands. Therefore it would be great if at some point in your long travel through the beautiful world of music, you listen to some older Dead Can Dance as well. Try 'Advent' from 'Spleen and Ideal' for example. Back when they had driving goth bass line, but also all the complex graces you hear on this more modern material, too.
DCD are far more than you describe and frankly defy classification . They have elements of Neo Classical/Renaissance /Choral / English Folk /Irish folk /World music and I could carry on. I saw them numerous times in England in the period 1984/1990 and was a fan since the "Peel Sessions" around early 1983.
Goths certainly latched onto them and maybe in the very early period they flirted with Goth elements (eg cover of the debut album) . But you could never call Brendan a Goth and I know for sure having spoken to them both back in the 1980's that they were bemused why the Goths latched onto them the way they did.
For me this band were at their musical zenith from around 1985/90. Spleen and Ideal , Within the Realm of a dying Sun and Aion are full of awesome masterpieces that have stood the test of time. Moreover, back in those days they had numerous musicians playing live on stage. Nowadays they rely more on electronics etc.
I was there for this concert! Filmed in Santa Monica, Ca in a small theatre which I forget the name of at the moment. Such a great show to see with Lisa And Brandon at the helm! Got to meet them afterwards! The pluck string is a Dulcimer (hammered) played by Lisa.
@wintermoonomen I was there too! amazing night
@@sootspritehive Yes it was! Glad to know you were there as well.
So glad you finally got to DCD! They are definitely one of the most unique bands I've discovered. They started out as a very gothic post-punk (The Cure-ish) inspired band, but they quickly moved on to these kind of world folk influences and mixed them somewhat with a few of the post-punk influences, especially the dark, mysterious atmospheres. They can be rapturous and transportive at their best, but you really have to be in the right mood and be willing to sink into those atmospheres. Lisa Gerrard is especially an incredibly talented vocalist (if you've ever seen the film Gladiator she's the angelic voice on the soundtrack near the end of the film) and really brings in the ethereal aspect over Brendon Perry's extremely diverse instrumentation. I recommended this track as I think it's one of the more accessible of their tracks with the rather catchy vocal melodies and (eventually) consistent percussion.
On the cultural appropriation subject, I've always been firmly on the side of "cultural appropriation is really just culture" because I think that's closest to the truth. If you look at how art has evolved over the centuries it's frequently been because artists have visited other cultures, been influenced by them, and incorporated those influences into their own work. To me, such a thing is only problematic if there's overt plagiarism or if the artists are trying to claim originality or not acknowledging their influences, but DCD aren't doing any of those things. I'm also fairly certain anyone familiar with genuine middle-east/Indian folk would never think this is just a straight-forward appropriation of that music; I especially can still hear the post-punk influences lurking in the keyboards and Perry's vocal style.
I mostly agree with your about the appropriation. Most cultures are happy to see their art, fashion, music, etc show up in other parts of the world. For me I think the main differentiation is intent, which is basically impossible to know without explicit statements from the artists.
I’m new to them, but DCD is one of the few bands that can really communicate a sense of wonder and awe in their music. It makes me wonder what metal or progressive bands do that. Yes certainly does at times (Awaken), but what others do, especially on the metal side?
i enjoyed you analysis
I think it is ridiculous to raise "cultural appropriation" in this context.
These are musicians who are interested in music from around the world and different instruments and use them to create abstract music with a variety of influences.
You don't see them wearing a sari, painting their face brown and chanting sutras, pretending they were Indian, for example. (For that matter, what about Indians playing heavy metal?? Isn't that cultural appropriation?)
If you want to see cultural appropriation, I recommend you check out basically any North-American who refers to himself as "African" even though he has absolutely nothing to do with Africa.
I listen to a variety of musical genres from Africa and the people who make them are born and raised in Africa and most definitely *don't* speak English -- the closest their languages get to Europe is local French dialects.
But when you have some stupid Yank wearing African garb and calling himself "African" just because of his skin colour, *that's* cultural appropriation -- he tries to gain cred by attaching himself to a culture (I won't get into just how many _different_ cultures there are in Africa...) that he has absolutely no understanding of.
The reality is that _stupidus Americanos_ is _stupidus Americanos_ -- no matter if it's the _blanca_ variety or the _Nigra_ variety. (If some white trash calls himself "Aryan" or "Nordic", what do people call him? A racist. Same here.)
Also: The "just gibberish" you speak of has a name in music: it's called "idioglossia"....Wikipedia defines is thus: "An idioglossia (from the Ancient Greek ἴδιος ídios, 'own, personal, distinct' and γλῶσσα glôssa, 'tongue') is an idiosyncratic language invented and spoken by only one person or only two people. Most often, idioglossia refers to the "private languages" of young children, especially twins, the latter being more specifically known as cryptophasia, and commonly referred to as twin talk or twin speech....and Children who are exposed to multiple languages from birth are also inclined to create idioglossias.
I'll add that Idioglossia is also used as an invented musical language, in song, in order to evoke a feeling, free from the impediments or limitations of the ordinary meanings of familiar words specific to a given language or the culture from which that culture specific familiar language has arisen. Think "scatting" common in jazz singing. In my opinion, "just gibberish" isn't a particularly helpful...or respectful...terminology for a music expert to be using in an effort to describe "idiogolssia" to an audience of music lovers and musicians.
But I think if you listen once again you'll hear that the string instrument could not possibly be a plucked instrument...she does sometime with it that could ONLY be done with a HAMMERED string instrument. I was so surprised you missed that.
The only language used in this song is English. The non-English vocals are what are known as glossolalia. It's not a language, rather, just sounds vocalized.
Hi Bryan, been quite busy lately & not always well, so catching up your videos late & will take my time those I have something to say about....Dead Can Dance, big deal ! The band who introduced my to Ancient music (despite their debut EP & LP was both being bathed in World music and...Cold Wave, but the latter was dominating) through instrumental like "Saltarello" (in "Aion", their fifth album) but if I had to advise you an album of them that for me is very important & a masterpiece, I'd call "Within the Realms of a Dying Sun", their 3rd album, with the 3 last songs being a summit, an album worth a full review imho...I think you understood well part of their goal & style, it'll be too long for me to detail everything but this song here is quite late in their career, but not so different stylistically (though being more Middle-East influenced than before), and maybe you know that the group did split & Lisa Gerrard pursued a successful solo career with some famous movie soundtracks such as "Spartacus", the recent remake...I also saw you covered a full album of Bellwitch, very brave of you (considering you're not a fan of Doom Metal) so I'll have a look...Greetings from the lately quite "agitated" France !
If you happen to check on some interviews,that will immediately tells more where this guys come from musically,true artists at the service of pure musical emotions via deep research and cultural knowledge
I love 'Children of the Sun' by DCD
Best band ever
I came across your videos by chance and I must say I am impressed with the way you analyse music. Very informative too. What shocked me somewhat was the doubt about DCD's good intentions and the issue of cultural appropriation. Here you have two people who have just about the most integrity of anyone in the music industry. I have been following them since 1984 and have read all their interviews and from the people who have worked with them so know pretty much what their ideas are. Both have very different approaches, but count on them being pure. Lisa Gerrard was born in Melbourne to Irish immigrant parents, and grew up in Prahran, an inner suburb with a substantial Greek population. That muli-cultural environment in which she grew up has largely shaped her musical language. Even as a young girl, she also formed her own language, which she calls 'language of the heart'. With all respect, never, ever call that gibberish or glossilalia. She taught her singing technique herself and also learned a lot from listening to Bulgarian singing choirs. Mystery of the Bulgarian voices and Lisa also ended up performing together several years ago. The mutual respect in doing so was great. Lisa is very religious and operates in her music both from her feelings and her faith. Brendan's approach is much more rational and analytical. He has studied ancient and classical music as well as music from other cultures, including Irish music where he has his roots. It is never his intention to copy music from other cultures for profit either. With him, too, there is a strong belief that the music of cultures are connected. The music by which DCD has been influenced is never a direct copy. They always turn it into their own musical world. They have never had any intention for making monetary gain in that. They started in Australia in 1981 and lived in rather poor conditions just for their music and moved to London and lived in the Isle of Dogs where Lisa sold houseplants door-to-door to make ends meet. They marvelled at fact that those 'rich youngsters' of London were walking around with deliberately torn clothes. It wasn't until the early 1990s that they started making some money when their music was used for films and also for National Geographic. But for them it's always, what you see with all true artists, a mix of skill and inner fire and a rock-solid belief in what they do. Never profit in any way.
I try to go into a reaction with as little information as possible as to not influence that pure first listening experience so I wasn't aware of who was in the band. So thank you for all of that background info on Lisa and Brendan.
@@CriticalReactions Your are welcome! I have also some recommandations for you if you haven't allready stumbled upon them: the Belgian Doom metal band Amenra with de Evenmens (The Human-for-a-while) and the Dutch rockband De Staat (The State, named after a work from the Dutch modern classical composer Louis Andriessen) with Kitty Kitty, Look at me, Phoenix (or any other work you like).
I'm glad this brought the cultural appropiation discussion on the table (even if it wasn't under that concept). It's always a tricky thing when Western-based artists explore genres outside their own sensibilities. I'm all for exploring other genres, styles and scenes, but it can get into thorny territory at times. Regarding this particular song, I'm not sure where it lands, honestly. You should keep in mind too that much like with Talking Heads yesterday (and classic rock bands like The Beatles before) drawing influences from different places helped bring new audiences to sounds/genres that otherwise, in a pre-internet world, would have had a harder time at that. Personally, my take on this is, as long as you recognize your inspirations and put that people in the spotlight, you're doing good. That's what Talking Heads did, and I don't know that much about Dead Can Dance but considering they are pretty respected in the folk world, I wouldn't be surprised if they also did that.
Regarding the song, I just love the ambience and mood they build in it. It's definitely music to get lost into, as a lot of their output is imo.
yeah, you raise good points, and I'm just going to tack on what DCD's Brendan Perry said about the theme on a fairly recent interview. Not a perfect answer, because the topic is complex, and I would say they were a bit guilty of the fetishization and perpetuation of "good savage" imagery, that notion of the wise and mystic shaman that was so attuned with the Earth that created stereotypes even as (in the best examples) tried to pay it homage. It was a pitfall of a "new age" kind of culture that still was an european view of those other cultures, even if very much sincere and well meaning. I don't know if it's something for which there's a blanket answer, so Brendan's answer is imperfect as anyone's would be. But the reply shows that they do give the issue some thought and took some care to do things respectfully.
the question and answer below is taken from a popmatters interview in 2018. Won't link it because TH-cam is finnicky with posted URLs, but should be easy enough to find with that info:
«In an age when sourcing, attribution, and rights over not just produced works but entire cultural traditions are hotly contested, creative works which draw on broad global traditions sometimes find themselves embroiled in controversies around cultural appropriation. It’s not a new phenomenon: from the earliest days of jazz to the punks who drew on African drum rhythms, musicians who hybridize musical traditions to both play traditional music as well as produce new forms find their work sometimes challenged. Perry reflected thoughtfully on challenges musicians can face in navigating these increasingly contested domains.
“It’s a difficult one,” he agrees. “Cultural appropriation is something that I think is important and relative to a culture which is still trying to be acknowledged, and still trying to carry on its own traditional ways. I think it’s really important to respect living cultures. Cultures which have moved on, and no longer exist, for instance - that’s fine, it’s fair game, it’s open to interpretation anyway.
“I have mixed feelings on it, in the sense that I think hybridization, or change, especially in music and also on [other] levels too, is a necessary prerequirement for moving on, for telling a new story. I’m a little bit anti traditions which are stuck, like at some point someone decided this is what traditional music is. I mean this happened to Irish traditional music for years, and it was disgraceful. They kept it in a bubble basically, and that was all part of Irish nationalism. Wherever you see nationalism connected with the arts, that’s what they tend to do, they tend to say ‘Right: all the development and evolution stops here, this is the top, this is the best it will ever be, this is the benchmark, everything has to conform to this.’ Or it will not be taken seriously.
“Folk music in Ireland really suffered from that for years, until groups like Planxty came back from the Mediterranean with bazoukis and weird time signatures and stuff like that, and introduced it in the seventies into Irish folk music, and then it changed. So I’m all for pollinization and change. But at the same time, respecting music’s culture, or at least giving reference to them in the music that you do. As long as you’re not stealing directly, without giving due credit, then I think it’s fine.”»
@@thegrimner that's a fair answer. I honestly don't know much about them beyond their music, and it's not really something that I began to question until a few years ago. So it's always tricky and bound to discussion. I'm glad they have at least given some thought about it and questioned their own practices. I do agree with the idea that hybridization is the path forward, as long as the voices of the many that contribute to that cultural melting pot are recognized. I feel this is reaching a shifting point currently too, with artists taking a more subdue approach to their role in this kind of collaborations. Jonny Greenwood and Damon Albarn are two that come to mind, that use their name more as platforms and less as the main event when collaborating with artists from different places in the world, and take a bit of a backseat from the spotlight.
@@StringHead92 Johnny Greenwood has a new album out with Israeli artist Dudu Tassa, and a collection of Arab artists (or mostly Arab artists at least). Tassa comes from a Mizrahi Jewish background, and has ancestors who were major musicians in Arab countries. I was intrigued to see a "Lynn A." included on one track. Could that be the great Lynn Adib? Yes, it turned out to be. Not sure why her name is not given in full. I wonder if it is a legal, rights-related issue. I don't know if I can justify continuing to indulge in spending money on special selections, but I wanted to get to Lynn Adib and her collaboration with Zeid Hamdan, Bedouin Burger. She is doing some brilliant work, working inside and outside of Arab tradition to varying degrees. She's quite heavily involved with vocal jazz, among other things.
Great comment! (as usual 😊)
Thanks for sharing these thoughts and context. 🙏
dead can dance is such a special band....
I think the shimmery instrument that sounds plucked, is probably actually a santoor, which is hammered. Not that that adds anything particularly useful. I didn't really get a distinct impression of any particular national culture from this track, but I guess it's closest overall to Indian music, to my ears. I don't know though, the rhythms don't seem obviously Indian to me (and I was listening for Persian things, since they use santoor a lot as well, but didn't pick up a Persian vibe either). But India and Iran are big places, so I could be missing something.
I've never really been a fan of Dead Can Dance. I had a friend way back who had a bunch of their albums and EPs, along with a bunch by the Cocteau Twins. I think they were both on 4AD, at least at one time.
Lisa Gerrard plays a hammered dulcimer.
@@atides33 Thanks. That makes sense. I almost came back and added that maybe it is a European hammered dulcimer. (Santoor is just another type of dulcimer, really.)
You're correct about 4AD. Pixies were on the label as well. Kinda crazy how much and how various future music that label ended up influencing between all those bands!
@@atides33 More specific a yangqin; a traditional chinese hammered dulcimer..
🔥🖤Dead Can Dance🖤🔥
Well this is def world music and really good sounding it is. Absolutely Indian inspired to my ears as well - so that would be "far east" (counting from the former world rulers Great Britain's point of view... 🙃)
Well, DCD are Australian, so it's "North"...
The funny thing is that DCD started out in the post-punk/industrial end (first album very Joy Division inspired) and then moved into world music in the mid-80s (Spleen And Ideal), as did their countryfolk SPK (on Zamia Lehmanni and then Oceania).
@@greggerypeccary North WEST even 😁
One Of the best bands Ever
React to Kiko by dead can dance
Hammered Dulcimer or a related instrument.
Interesting comments about cultural appropriation. I don’t have my thoughts formed around this topic, although it comes to mind often. I appreciate your thoughts in the video and the comments.
What was funny was that I saw Dead Can Dance back in their early days, and the audience were mostly goth and punk types like me. Then, I didn't see them live again till the 90's. And when I saw them then, the audience were all, on average, my parent's age. And most of them were dressed up in sport coats, ties, dresses, etc.. I was still rocking the punk look and MAN was I out of place at that show. Times, and their fan base had totally changed.
I don't think this track is anywhere near the best thing this band has released. It's a very good track but tracks like "in power we entrust the love advocated " and "Black sun" are in my opinion better. That is to name just two.
On cultural appropriation, I don't have a strong opinion on it. But the weekend before the "world-ish" theme came up, it just randomly came glaringly into my attention via my Wikipedia reading on a vocal work that popped up on my TH-cam recs (which, I honestly really like the music for). I guess like others have said, ultimately the best route is to collaborate with people and share co-composition and monetary credits. So that was kind of what I was thinking about for the theme week, at which point I realized that along with having extremely limited (practically no) knowledge myself of world music, I had even fewer collaborative examples. Since then, I've learned that at least in classical music, Philip Glass was good about collaborating directly, and Kronos Quartet also directly commissions works to be written by composers from other cultures.
Anyhow.... I voted for this track because I rather like Lisa Gerrard and was interested in hearing Dead Can Dance just by affiliation, even though I don't really know their music. I also listen to some of the American folk guitarists (John Fahey et al) who maybe similarly incorporate a variety of cultural influences. I don't actually have any interest in judging any of them one way or the other.
Maybe this video montage of the song, helps you see further into the meaning of the piece:
th-cam.com/video/kq59rEVWQNI/w-d-xo.html
Lol
Well, great video until you started babbling gibberish at 21:00. If you knew more of their history, background, and influences you might have a better informed opinion than the GIBBERISH (your favorite word) you spat out at the end.
21:04 Oh please. Cut the woke crap out. Music is music. It is NOT owned by any particular group or culture.
Woke means aware of oppression. If you use it as a perjorative, you're following the racists who appropriated it from BLM because they got bored of SJW.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_Can_Dance
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speaking_in_tongues