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Adoption can work out. It's possible to end up in a great family. That still doesn't make it an alternative to abortion. Too many people view it as the way to END abortions. It is not. There are already far too many children in the system as it is, and it creates a lifetime of trauma for the adoptee. Abortion is a far better alternative than adoption. And before anyone comes at me with: "how would you feel if you'd been aborted instead of adopted?" Let me just set that record straight: If I had been aborted instead of adopted I would not feel anything today because I would not exist. Do I like my life now? Sure. Am I happy? Absolutely. But I honestly would have preferred to have not grown up knowing that my birth parents didn't want me (which is a partial lie I was fed to make me happy I was adopted anyway). I would have preferred not having a brain that was literally traumatized the moment I was born by not allowing me any physical contact with the woman who I spent 9 months growing inside and listening to. Adoption, even when it happens to an infant, causes trauma to the child. There is no circumstance where you will not have a child that is trauma free from going through an adoption. Even in cases where the parents legit should not have their child (which don't even get me started on how many kids don't need to be taken from their parents) and adoption is the best option available for the child, those children still end up with trauma. This trauma is exactly why adoptees who advocate for a better system need people to understand: Adoption is NOT an alternative to abortion. Full stop. And society need to learn this lesson.
I'm from Brazil and the adoption process is COMPLETELY different. The first time I was exposed to how your adoption system worked I was absolutely shocked. It really is human trafficking that was legalized.
I've seen couple times American couples adopting foreign children (nothing inherently bad about it) who just casually changed their child's name. Not their surname but first name. It's so crazy but nobody around them seems to understand that I live in Poland so this idea of child snatching and basically rewriting their identity hits close home to me. Happened a lot during WWII, happens today during the Russo-Ukrainian war If I wanted to adopt a foreign kid then I would learn their language and strive to keep them connected to their culture. That's common sense for me
I live in Belgium and we are trying to adopt, and it’s also a completely different process. First of all it’s a very long process with taking classes, assessment by a psychologist, home assessments, even before one gets approved to adopt at all, which gets approved by a judge. Only after that can one start the actual adoption process, which can also take years before there is a match on a child. It’s also very rare to adopt a baby or young child, as putting a child for adoption is not prioritised as a solution to an unwanted pregnancy (abortion is legal but we also have a good social system). Unlike in the USA it’s very rare that parental rights are taken away from birth parents (it really needs to be an extreme case). It can often happen that a child lives with foster parents almost their whole childhood but is never adopted (fostering to adopt doesn’t exist) because children may get taken away from their birth parents but they still keep parental rights, contact with the parents is encouraged, etc as much as possible.
@@angelikaskoroszyn8495 I was adopted thru the foster care system. LET ME GET THIS THING CLEAR its not names or raising that determines identity its your own self. I am glad I don't share my bio parents name and is working on changing even my adoptive name. I am not a Riley(bio name) nor am I an Atkins I am a Russel my mothers(my real mother the one who raised me and sacrificed for me not the bio one who just gave birth to me) family's name. The caps aren't to hate on you by the way
@@s.a.4358the UK system is similar to Belgium by the sounds of it, takes years so many assments and rare to get a young child and definitely not a baby as the process takes years they'll be nearly 3 at the youngest for most people. They also don't let you adopt black children into completely white families. If it does happen in anyway you've got to have links to their culture and know their language for example. The American system seems to lack any consideration of child development and attachment theory 😢
@@justinatkins737I know you mean well by this comment, but the experience of a foster youth adoptee and an infant adoptee is very different. Similar in some ways but different. To some of us that loss of identity like names and knowing where you came from does affect your ability to find that sense of self.
My uncle by marriage was Navajo and was adopted by a white couple and I didn’t know he had been raised Mormon until we were cleaning out a storage unit and he pulled out a certificate of some kind and laughed. He had a difficult life before he died and I didn’t always understand how he thought about things, but being adopted had a huge influence on his life. I wish things had been easier for him. He was no longer a Mormon and had gone back to connect back with his culture.
What a great episode. Not to dump another adoption story, but my mom was adopted (in the 50’s). We finally found her birth mom on a DNA site, but found her about 3 months after she passed away. Her only “research interest” on her page was the place and year my mom was born. She was looking for my mom. It breaks my heart that we will never get to meet her. She was also mentally ill, but her family says it was easily treated and she lived pretty extraordinary life. I hate it for all involved that she didn’t get to find my mom while she was alive, that my mom never got to even meet her, and that it created so much pain/confusion through my family. Thank you for touching on the topic abortion. For some reason people are thrown off by the idea that adoptees would be pro-choice. I’m thrown off by the idea that there are people in this world that can’t see the issues with the adoption industry.
I'm not and I'm adopted maybe I got one that actually cared. I have no interest in meeting my bio mother though she is looking for me for she is a drugee who gave me up for smoking a cig. I'm glad I got to live. And no I never had ANY connection to my bio "mom" I was connected with my mother not my bio. When the social services would pick me up from my mom to bring me to my bio they would have to pry me off her and would scream and cry the whole visit with my bios so much I made myself sick which proves to me my bio's delusions about how meeting me is a good idea, again I'm down with being friends if she brings fruit for forgiveness and realize its not going to be an easy process and there will be tears and screaming matches but not calling her my mother that role is taken and if she isn't willing to put the work in and actually prove to me she's not who she was then absolutely not. Tell me how she would think I hadn't chose my mother over her when when my bio had only seen me as a baby and I was always screaming and crying and sometimes even the visit had to be cancelled due to social workers' fears I would cry myself to death if I would have been taken to see her? Its foolishness to think she stood a chance against my mother.
@@cherylkane-z8d She was a smoker also she smoked stuff other then tobacco and weed while pregnant with me, she'd rather have a smoke of any substance then to take care of me. I don't think anymore she wanted to abort me and think it was kind-of planned but her "husband" was so old and she was too young to realize what that entails and I've got taken away because of it like immediately due to her making that comment. Yes she smoked cigarettes and drug-based substances as well from my understanding.
My Wife lost her Niece and Nephew, ages 3 and 6 To LDS Family Services. My Sister in law was incarcerated for drug possession and so she signed her parental rights over to the Oldest Sister Jazmine. Jasmine had no intention to keep the children and secretly sold them to a wealthy LDS family for a decent sum of money. Through the 1 year adoption process, the kids were brought to birthday parties and other family holidays and nobody knew they were getting sold… This was 6 years ago and the mother of the children took her own life after being out and clean for 3 years. Really got her life together but couldn’t cope with not having her babies. The eldest sister has been disowned by the family since but that was only after she took all the donations from the funeral go fund me proceeds and left Utah… She is still very much an active member of the church lol. Story is crazy but 100 percent true. Love the LDS church so much I won’t touch it with a 100 ft pole.
I'm a therapist who works for an agency that primarily takes foster care and adoption cases (in Utah, so lots of ties to Mormonism in many of these cases). We strive for reunification with bio family whenever possible and safe for the children. Just the separation from biological primary caregivers can be so traumatic for a child. There's so much nuance and often pain in these situations, but it seems like a lot of people just think adoption is this beautiful wonderful thing, especially in a culture where having a lot of kids and raising kids in the "true gospel" is such a value and a priority. Adoption can be beautiful and necessary, AND there's also a lot of loss, trauma, and attachment difficulties that go along with it. Hearing your story and seeing your emotions talking about this was so valuable. I really appreciate you being vulnerable and sharing your story and insights with us. ❤
As someone who is trying to adopt in Europe (in Belgium specifically) I find it strange that the loss, trauma, attachment issues, etc are not talked about within the adoption process. Here the first step in the process is a 3 day class, which is heavily focused on the needs of the child, understanding trauma and attachment issues, understanding additional needs of adopted children (which range from health issues or disabilities to things like delayed development, malnutrition or trauma), understanding one’s own strengths and weaknesses as a potential parent and making a space for the birth family (even if there is no connection / communication, as it’s part of the child’s story). The emphasis is very much on the needs of the child and what is best for the child, not what the adopted parents want. And that’s just the first step in the process here, before one can start the process to get approved by the court as a potential adoptive parent.
It wasn't for me but I never knew my "bio primary caregivers" they screwed up real early so that could also be it, I had no pain because I was with who I knew my whole life as my mother.
@@s.a.4358 Foster parents have to do similar training here in order to get their license, and there are additional supports and ongoing trainings offered to families who have adopted through foster care. But as far as I know, those classes and trainings aren't required when it's a private adoption.
@@anonymous5me we don’t have private adoption here. I think the process is easier when it is the adoption of a known child (inter-family for example) especially if there is already a close bond with the child, but the adoptive parent(s) still need to go through the whole accreditation process. We also do not have ‘foster to adopt’ because the preference is always to keep the connection with the birth family / parent. The child may be taken away if the parents are not seen as fit parents, and may even grow up in a foster family from birth, but the parental rights would only be taken away in really extreme situation. Otherwise the parents really need to indicate that they wish to give up the child for adoption, but it’s not necessary encouraged.
I wasn't morman, but in my sect of Christianity I fully believed an unborn baby could go to hell if the fetus didn't accept Jesus in their undeveloped heart. Which is WILD, but was also a huge part of the reason I was so against abortion so long. It's been eye opening to me learning about how much adoption can hurt the adoptee, but really important to taking down some of those notions and coming at these complex issues with more compassion. Thank you so much for sharing your story.
I'm from Utah County, parents were 16/18 and got married before I was born.. neither should have been parents and DCFS finally got involved when I was 16... when I got pregnant at 17 I was told that my only options were adoption or to place the baby with LDS family services.. so when I chose to try and keep the baby on my own I was left with zero support from my family to the point that they helped his dad get custody of him... When I got pregnant again at 19 and got married to the guy he turned out to be super abusive in private... When I finally tried to leave him my family did the same thing and he ended up with her and me with no visitation rights. There is much more to my story, but that's the relevant part... it does turn out okay... but mostly because I learned how far my family went to betray me.. and also because my kids are all adults now and I feel like we have a strong relationship. I have a 3rd child who I managed to keep custody of and raise, and then when my oldest were teens I got custody when they became rebellious (aka: traumatized and in survival mode). Anyway, I realized recently that these things fell into place because my family (and the church) believes that a single mom can't raise a child- but as a single mom of 3 wonderful children I never needed anyone else to make me and my children a family. I don't need a spouse or a priesthood holder.. but oh what could have been had my family supported me as much as my exes family's supported them.
Phenomenal interview. Thank you, Tara, for sharing your story and thank you Sam and Tanner for providing a platform and being such gracious hosts and excellent interviewers.
Babies are bought…. Wow… I’m adopted. 1950, but a private adoption. I have no idea how much my parents paid the attorney for my adoption. I went home at 2 days old. But both families were LDS although my biological family was very inactive. Thanks for this. I don’t have Instagram or Tik Tok. Do you know which episode of Mormon Stories she was on?
I was a convert to the church at age 22. My xhusband now refused to join but didn't stop me. I experienced my 2nd miscarriage a couple weeks after my baptism. Well 23rd birthday exactly hubby became x hubby. I moved back to my home city with our 3 yr old daughter shortly after. Over the next few years I went on 1 date with someone I met at a singles event. I went through the temple at 25ish. But then I met a man from Africa, I'm white, who was playing around and ended up pregnant aa at age 27 as a single mother. That baby is now 26 and the biggest comfort to me his mother. Thanks for bringing up the Bishop pressure on pregnant single mothers. Looking back, I didn't realise at the time, but my bishop did try unsuccessfully to push me to adoption. I was asked all the time about it. No way was I giving up my baby, I lost 2 to miscarriage and wasn't losing anymore. I stared e erybody down from the word jump regarding my son. At no time have I ever regretted keeping him. The church is really fuc$ed up.
Thank you Zelph for covering this. I’ve been BEGGING exmo creators to start talking about adoption and Mormonism. Tara is amazing! ❤ another exmo adoptee (bought child)
I just heard Tara’s Mormon story so this is the perfect time to hear more. I explained to my kids that their adoptions did cost money but it is to pay the attorney, pay for back ground checks, travel, home studies, citizenship papers, the money isn’t going to the birth family like they are bought. We did not go through Mormon services but I know Mormon families that went through our agency. There is trafficking so it is important to do your homework on the process so you can see nefarious practices.
A lot of disabled people are also told to be grateful that they didn’t end up in a home or a facility or in foster care which is absolutely terrible! Part of making the decision to get pregnant or keep a pregnancy is knowing that things could go wrong or that your child could be disabled. You don’t need to be grateful for your parents deciding to keep you! It’s just so sad that people are told to be grateful for what they have when what they have is really just the bare minimum any child should have
It's very interesting that when she talks about the receiving parents in an adoption Tara uses language like "bought" and "sold," but when she talks about the giving parents she uses "placed." Maybe this is tied into a subtext of birth parents historically being pressured into adoption without informed consent? Maybe not. In either case it really says a lot about her feelings towards adoption and family. These conversations are so important and I'm encouraged to see more adoptee voices amplified!
I'm about to upset you and don't mean anything wrong with it but I'm an adopted person(don't call me an adoptee) who would dance on my bio mother's grave and make a shrine of my real mother. Does my voice matter? Or is it just the negative ones?
I'm from Ireland where there was a lot of adoption as a fix all for the lapses in "morality" or "purity" on behalf of those girls who found themselves pregnant and alone in a religion and culture that like Mormonism saw nothing but marriage as the societal norm. The girls took the "blame" and the guys went on with their lives. Even the adoption was clouded with secrecy and often exploitation. On the other hand in that era society would never have helped or supported those single mothers and their families threw them out and the religious mother n baby homes at least took them in. Life was hugely different. Today in Ireland single parenthood is so accepted there is government help and no one bats an eye. From the viewpoint of an adoptive mother whom I had as a friend for over 30 years I watched her and her husband give two children a great home love affection and open hearts to these two children. My friend never wanted to find out about her past she was happy in her present her brother had immense problems which his adoptive mum blamed herself for and in my opinion she shouldn't have taken on that blame. So this is quite the minefield and is so personal different and unique to each individual. At least today the Catholuc Church here and general society hasn't such an iron grip on people's bodies and minds and people are able to live their lives their way. My mum was a stay at home mum but had to give up her job when she got married. Even though she didn't work afterwards she kept up her interest in her nursing career and graduated twice from college with diplomas in nursing which she completed in middle age with no 3rd level education. She used this to help her family to advise and council her friends and family and organization's. She remained strong and solid to her last despite restrictions from society and religion. She was a true partner in her63 year marriage and opinionated till the end. So there are exceptions to every rule. Cc Ireland well done to this lady for her honesty and happy new year all🎉
This will not bring consolation but it needs to be said...even people that had biological families are abandoned. Many of us had to raise ourselves. Poverty kept both parents at work. Addiction/alcoholism kept parents unavailable. Not having guidance kept us alienated from others because we have no idea what is normal or ok. Please be good medicine for each other. We are all alone, together❤
Actually this did not need to be said. The loneliness felt by people with biological families will never be the same as the loneliness felt by an adoptee. What you just said is akin to saying "all lives matter" when someone says "black lives matter."
@CyrynDragoon What YOU said needed to be said lmao, I came to say the same thing. My trauma as a neglected youth with bio ties is NOT the same to the isolation and trauma experienced by adoptees. Tf kind of comparison.
I've already commented but I should make this clear, if what I commented or replied about offended anyone I didn't mean anything I just have extremely strong opinions on adoption. I recognize adoption can be done wrong but I was adopted almost perfectly by a mother who I feel was God-appointed to be my mother. I had no connection to my bio mom but I had and have a deep connection with my mother so much so that if she dies I would fall into a deep depression while if my bio mom dies and somehow someway I find out about it I would treat it like a stranger dying: sad for the family but I am not her family and don't know her and what I was told about her she wasn't the best person. I pretty much chose my mother, be it the natural body accepted her or my spirit accepted her that's up to you, she didn't choose me.
Another adoptee chiming in here. I also have no relationship with my bio family other than an uncle and his wife. I’m also very glad I was not raised by either side of my biological family and love my adoptive family. Our experience is not common. We are the outliers in most adoptive situations. And even if we have amazing, kind, compassionate adoptive parents that doesn’t lessen any trauma we had from the initial separation, as babies can’t understand or process that separation like an adult can. I’m really glad your experience was a good one but please remember when we’re in spaces with people who are talking about trauma and adoption that it’s important to be respectful and validating of their story rather than making a blanket “adoption worked out well for me” kind of statement. You are in fact, the minority. And it’s important for those of us who got lucky to hold space and mourn with those who were not as lucky.
@Cosmically_Forsaken Yeah I agree but there is one problem. I have no trauma from the initial separation mainly because the first person to hold me was my mom not my bio. I am 100% removed from any attachment to my bio mom I don't even consider her my real mom I consider my mom my mom and a lot of the "adoption leads to trauma" is due to public opinion and the parents keeping it a secret and the adoptive parent not fully claiming them, my mother 100% claimed me, my family 100% claimed me and saw me not as their adoptive child but their real child. Think about it, if you are adopted as a baby you would have no memory of your bio family but with god-forsaken jokes like "YoUr AdOpTeD" or "NoBoDy WaNtS yOu fOr YoUr AdOpTed" being thrown around that creates fake trauma that didn't exist, could there be trauma? Yes absolutely especially if its older children. Maybe I am blindsided by my own experience that I never had any separation trauma and claimed my mother the moment I met her. Edit: I should clarify that I was in foster system and never actually knew my bio family. I did have separation trauma but the other way around, when the social worker would come to get me to visit my bio mom they had to pry me from my mother's arms and I would scream and cry until I returned home and a visit went on for hours so much so that at times the visit with my bios had to be cancelled because I would cry so much they worried I would die from crying myself to death. In my young eyes(at the time) I was being taken away from my mother and taken to a stranger's house in my mind my adoptive mother was my real mother and my bio mother was the stranger
@justinatkins737 my godmother is an adoptee who has had to fully cut off both her bio family and adoptive family because they're both extremely abusive in different ways. I'm glad your experience is different, but most experiences aren't good. It's still human trafficking. It's still a net negative on a national and even somewhat global scale. Anecdotal evidence cannot erase substantiated data.
Not even halfway in (and I’m white) but there’s SO much of what Tara is saying that I get. My son was the first biological family I ever met. The connection was there for me but my trauma showed by being hyper anxious that he would be taken from me for literally no reason. The deregulation, not knowing who I was, feeling like I should be grateful all the time really hit home too. I was even used as a Sunday school object lesson because I was adopted. 🫠 Sorry in advance if I comment a lot I have FEELINGS lol
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As a fellow exmo who was adopted... let's just say this to everyone:
Adoption is NOT an alternative to abortion.
Thank you for sharing.
Adoption can work out. It's possible to end up in a great family.
That still doesn't make it an alternative to abortion.
Too many people view it as the way to END abortions. It is not. There are already far too many children in the system as it is, and it creates a lifetime of trauma for the adoptee.
Abortion is a far better alternative than adoption.
And before anyone comes at me with: "how would you feel if you'd been aborted instead of adopted?" Let me just set that record straight:
If I had been aborted instead of adopted I would not feel anything today because I would not exist. Do I like my life now? Sure. Am I happy? Absolutely. But I honestly would have preferred to have not grown up knowing that my birth parents didn't want me (which is a partial lie I was fed to make me happy I was adopted anyway). I would have preferred not having a brain that was literally traumatized the moment I was born by not allowing me any physical contact with the woman who I spent 9 months growing inside and listening to.
Adoption, even when it happens to an infant, causes trauma to the child. There is no circumstance where you will not have a child that is trauma free from going through an adoption. Even in cases where the parents legit should not have their child (which don't even get me started on how many kids don't need to be taken from their parents) and adoption is the best option available for the child, those children still end up with trauma.
This trauma is exactly why adoptees who advocate for a better system need people to understand: Adoption is NOT an alternative to abortion. Full stop. And society need to learn this lesson.
Another exmo who was adopted, I second this
That “it’s not if you have mental health struggles but when” so powerful.
I'm from Brazil and the adoption process is COMPLETELY different. The first time I was exposed to how your adoption system worked I was absolutely shocked. It really is human trafficking that was legalized.
I've seen couple times American couples adopting foreign children (nothing inherently bad about it) who just casually changed their child's name. Not their surname but first name. It's so crazy but nobody around them seems to understand that
I live in Poland so this idea of child snatching and basically rewriting their identity hits close home to me. Happened a lot during WWII, happens today during the Russo-Ukrainian war
If I wanted to adopt a foreign kid then I would learn their language and strive to keep them connected to their culture. That's common sense for me
I live in Belgium and we are trying to adopt, and it’s also a completely different process. First of all it’s a very long process with taking classes, assessment by a psychologist, home assessments, even before one gets approved to adopt at all, which gets approved by a judge. Only after that can one start the actual adoption process, which can also take years before there is a match on a child. It’s also very rare to adopt a baby or young child, as putting a child for adoption is not prioritised as a solution to an unwanted pregnancy (abortion is legal but we also have a good social system). Unlike in the USA it’s very rare that parental rights are taken away from birth parents (it really needs to be an extreme case). It can often happen that a child lives with foster parents almost their whole childhood but is never adopted (fostering to adopt doesn’t exist) because children may get taken away from their birth parents but they still keep parental rights, contact with the parents is encouraged, etc as much as possible.
@@angelikaskoroszyn8495 I was adopted thru the foster care system. LET ME GET THIS THING CLEAR its not names or raising that determines identity its your own self. I am glad I don't share my bio parents name and is working on changing even my adoptive name. I am not a Riley(bio name) nor am I an Atkins I am a Russel my mothers(my real mother the one who raised me and sacrificed for me not the bio one who just gave birth to me) family's name. The caps aren't to hate on you by the way
@@s.a.4358the UK system is similar to Belgium by the sounds of it, takes years so many assments and rare to get a young child and definitely not a baby as the process takes years they'll be nearly 3 at the youngest for most people. They also don't let you adopt black children into completely white families. If it does happen in anyway you've got to have links to their culture and know their language for example. The American system seems to lack any consideration of child development and attachment theory 😢
@@justinatkins737I know you mean well by this comment, but the experience of a foster youth adoptee and an infant adoptee is very different. Similar in some ways but different. To some of us that loss of identity like names and knowing where you came from does affect your ability to find that sense of self.
My uncle by marriage was Navajo and was adopted by a white couple and I didn’t know he had been raised Mormon until we were cleaning out a storage unit and he pulled out a certificate of some kind and laughed. He had a difficult life before he died and I didn’t always understand how he thought about things, but being adopted had a huge influence on his life. I wish things had been easier for him. He was no longer a Mormon and had gone back to connect back with his culture.
What a great episode. Not to dump another adoption story, but my mom was adopted (in the 50’s). We finally found her birth mom on a DNA site, but found her about 3 months after she passed away. Her only “research interest” on her page was the place and year my mom was born. She was looking for my mom. It breaks my heart that we will never get to meet her. She was also mentally ill, but her family says it was easily treated and she lived pretty extraordinary life. I hate it for all involved that she didn’t get to find my mom while she was alive, that my mom never got to even meet her, and that it created so much pain/confusion through my family. Thank you for touching on the topic abortion. For some reason people are thrown off by the idea that adoptees would be pro-choice. I’m thrown off by the idea that there are people in this world that can’t see the issues with the adoption industry.
💔♥️♥️
I'm not and I'm adopted maybe I got one that actually cared. I have no interest in meeting my bio mother though she is looking for me for she is a drugee who gave me up for smoking a cig. I'm glad I got to live. And no I never had ANY connection to my bio "mom" I was connected with my mother not my bio. When the social services would pick me up from my mom to bring me to my bio they would have to pry me off her and would scream and cry the whole visit with my bios so much I made myself sick which proves to me my bio's delusions about how meeting me is a good idea, again I'm down with being friends if she brings fruit for forgiveness and realize its not going to be an easy process and there will be tears and screaming matches but not calling her my mother that role is taken and if she isn't willing to put the work in and actually prove to me she's not who she was then absolutely not. Tell me how she would think I hadn't chose my mother over her when when my bio had only seen me as a baby and I was always screaming and crying and sometimes even the visit had to be cancelled due to social workers' fears I would cry myself to death if I would have been taken to see her? Its foolishness to think she stood a chance against my mother.
What do you mean smoking a cig that part confused me
@@cherylkane-z8d She was a smoker also she smoked stuff other then tobacco and weed while pregnant with me, she'd rather have a smoke of any substance then to take care of me. I don't think anymore she wanted to abort me and think it was kind-of planned but her "husband" was so old and she was too young to realize what that entails and I've got taken away because of it like immediately due to her making that comment. Yes she smoked cigarettes and drug-based substances as well from my understanding.
@@cherylkane-z8d I was thru the foster care system if that helps put two and two together
My Wife lost her Niece and Nephew, ages 3 and 6 To LDS Family Services. My Sister in law was incarcerated for drug possession and so she signed her parental rights over to the Oldest Sister Jazmine. Jasmine had no intention to keep the children and secretly sold them to a wealthy LDS family for a decent sum of money. Through the 1 year adoption process, the kids were brought to birthday parties and other family holidays and nobody knew they were getting sold… This was 6 years ago and the mother of the children took her own life after being out and clean for 3 years. Really got her life together but couldn’t cope with not having her babies. The eldest sister has been disowned by the family since but that was only after she took all the donations from the funeral go fund me proceeds and left Utah… She is still very much an active member of the church lol. Story is crazy but 100 percent true. Love the LDS church so much I won’t touch it with a 100 ft pole.
Really sorry for your loss.
I'm a therapist who works for an agency that primarily takes foster care and adoption cases (in Utah, so lots of ties to Mormonism in many of these cases). We strive for reunification with bio family whenever possible and safe for the children. Just the separation from biological primary caregivers can be so traumatic for a child. There's so much nuance and often pain in these situations, but it seems like a lot of people just think adoption is this beautiful wonderful thing, especially in a culture where having a lot of kids and raising kids in the "true gospel" is such a value and a priority. Adoption can be beautiful and necessary, AND there's also a lot of loss, trauma, and attachment difficulties that go along with it. Hearing your story and seeing your emotions talking about this was so valuable. I really appreciate you being vulnerable and sharing your story and insights with us. ❤
As someone who is trying to adopt in Europe (in Belgium specifically) I find it strange that the loss, trauma, attachment issues, etc are not talked about within the adoption process. Here the first step in the process is a 3 day class, which is heavily focused on the needs of the child, understanding trauma and attachment issues, understanding additional needs of adopted children (which range from health issues or disabilities to things like delayed development, malnutrition or trauma), understanding one’s own strengths and weaknesses as a potential parent and making a space for the birth family (even if there is no connection / communication, as it’s part of the child’s story). The emphasis is very much on the needs of the child and what is best for the child, not what the adopted parents want. And that’s just the first step in the process here, before one can start the process to get approved by the court as a potential adoptive parent.
It wasn't for me but I never knew my "bio primary caregivers" they screwed up real early so that could also be it, I had no pain because I was with who I knew my whole life as my mother.
@@s.a.4358 Foster parents have to do similar training here in order to get their license, and there are additional supports and ongoing trainings offered to families who have adopted through foster care. But as far as I know, those classes and trainings aren't required when it's a private adoption.
@@anonymous5me we don’t have private adoption here. I think the process is easier when it is the adoption of a known child (inter-family for example) especially if there is already a close bond with the child, but the adoptive parent(s) still need to go through the whole accreditation process. We also do not have ‘foster to adopt’ because the preference is always to keep the connection with the birth family / parent. The child may be taken away if the parents are not seen as fit parents, and may even grow up in a foster family from birth, but the parental rights would only be taken away in really extreme situation. Otherwise the parents really need to indicate that they wish to give up the child for adoption, but it’s not necessary encouraged.
@@s.a.4358 Mine was necessary trust me
Tara is amazing. One of my favourite Mormon Stories guests. I am so glad you have her as a guest.
I wasn't morman, but in my sect of Christianity I fully believed an unborn baby could go to hell if the fetus didn't accept Jesus in their undeveloped heart. Which is WILD, but was also a huge part of the reason I was so against abortion so long.
It's been eye opening to me learning about how much adoption can hurt the adoptee, but really important to taking down some of those notions and coming at these complex issues with more compassion. Thank you so much for sharing your story.
Didn't hurt me I was adopted and will adopt myself(through the foster care system both things)
I'm from Utah County, parents were 16/18 and got married before I was born.. neither should have been parents and DCFS finally got involved when I was 16... when I got pregnant at 17 I was told that my only options were adoption or to place the baby with LDS family services.. so when I chose to try and keep the baby on my own I was left with zero support from my family to the point that they helped his dad get custody of him... When I got pregnant again at 19 and got married to the guy he turned out to be super abusive in private... When I finally tried to leave him my family did the same thing and he ended up with her and me with no visitation rights.
There is much more to my story, but that's the relevant part... it does turn out okay... but mostly because I learned how far my family went to betray me.. and also because my kids are all adults now and I feel like we have a strong relationship. I have a 3rd child who I managed to keep custody of and raise, and then when my oldest were teens I got custody when they became rebellious (aka: traumatized and in survival mode).
Anyway, I realized recently that these things fell into place because my family (and the church) believes that a single mom can't raise a child- but as a single mom of 3 wonderful children I never needed anyone else to make me and my children a family. I don't need a spouse or a priesthood holder.. but oh what could have been had my family supported me as much as my exes family's supported them.
Thank you for sharing your truth and how it connects to greater realties. It is very brave of you.
I can't believe how so many people want to get rid of welfare. I'd probably die without it.
As a European, where social welfare is normal and accepted, I also don’t understand how anyone could find it a bad thing.
@@s.a.4358 Isn't it crazy that looking out for people is morally unacceptable to like half of the us?
loveeee this vibe omg you guys have such good chemistry! thank you to your lovely guest for sharing her story 💕
Thank you Tara for sharing. What a powerful story 💗Thanks Sam & Tan for the beautiful conversation also. I hope more people see this.
Phenomenal interview. Thank you, Tara, for sharing your story and thank you Sam and Tanner for providing a platform and being such gracious hosts and excellent interviewers.
Thank you so much for sharing your story with us 💗
Babies are bought…. Wow… I’m adopted. 1950, but a private adoption. I have no idea how much my parents paid the attorney for my adoption. I went home at 2 days old. But both families were LDS although my biological family was very inactive. Thanks for this. I don’t have Instagram or Tik Tok. Do you know which episode of Mormon Stories she was on?
Episodes 1856 and 1857. It was nearly a year ago
I believe you can search her name and Mormon Stories on here and it should come up ❤
Tara Herbert part one is episode 1856
Had to immediately follow Tara and her podcast. She's so relatable💜
My favorite guest. Very insightful.
Thank you for this
I was a convert to the church at age 22. My xhusband now refused to join but didn't stop me. I experienced my 2nd miscarriage a couple weeks after my baptism. Well 23rd birthday exactly hubby became x hubby. I moved back to my home city with our 3 yr old daughter shortly after. Over the next few years I went on 1 date with someone I met at a singles event. I went through the temple at 25ish. But then I met a man from Africa, I'm white, who was playing around and ended up pregnant aa at age 27 as a single mother. That baby is now 26 and the biggest comfort to me his mother. Thanks for bringing up the Bishop pressure on pregnant single mothers. Looking back, I didn't realise at the time, but my bishop did try unsuccessfully to push me to adoption. I was asked all the time about it. No way was I giving up my baby, I lost 2 to miscarriage and wasn't losing anymore. I stared e erybody down from the word jump regarding my son. At no time have I ever regretted keeping him.
The church is really fuc$ed up.
This was Great! Tara thank you for sharing your story and being vulnerable. Love you ❤
Wow what a moving story, Tara was an amazing guest!
That was a really good video. Thank you for having Tara.
What a beautiful soul, thanks for sharing your story🪷
Thank you Zelph for covering this. I’ve been BEGGING exmo creators to start talking about adoption and Mormonism. Tara is amazing!
❤ another exmo adoptee (bought child)
I just heard Tara’s Mormon story so this is the perfect time to hear more. I explained to my kids that their adoptions did cost money but it is to pay the attorney, pay for back ground checks, travel, home studies, citizenship papers, the money isn’t going to the birth family like they are bought. We did not go through Mormon services but I know Mormon families that went through our agency. There is trafficking so it is important to do your homework on the process so you can see nefarious practices.
A lot of disabled people are also told to be grateful that they didn’t end up in a home or a facility or in foster care which is absolutely terrible! Part of making the decision to get pregnant or keep a pregnancy is knowing that things could go wrong or that your child could be disabled. You don’t need to be grateful for your parents deciding to keep you! It’s just so sad that people are told to be grateful for what they have when what they have is really just the bare minimum any child should have
Wow, I was hooked on every word Tara said. A much needed perspective. She's wonderful, I cried when she did! Thank you for the great video!
I just want to hug Tara. I am so sorry for your trauma.
The "mormon 21 is like real world 16" is so fucking real tho.
It's very interesting that when she talks about the receiving parents in an adoption Tara uses language like "bought" and "sold," but when she talks about the giving parents she uses "placed." Maybe this is tied into a subtext of birth parents historically being pressured into adoption without informed consent? Maybe not. In either case it really says a lot about her feelings towards adoption and family.
These conversations are so important and I'm encouraged to see more adoptee voices amplified!
I'm about to upset you and don't mean anything wrong with it but I'm an adopted person(don't call me an adoptee) who would dance on my bio mother's grave and make a shrine of my real mother. Does my voice matter? Or is it just the negative ones?
@justinatkins737 of course your voice and your experience matters. You matter.
thank you for sharing. You seem like such a sweet strong women. ❤
I'm from Ireland where there was a lot of adoption as a fix all for the lapses in "morality" or "purity" on behalf of those girls who found themselves pregnant and alone in a religion and culture that like Mormonism saw nothing but marriage as the societal norm. The girls took the "blame" and the guys went on with their lives. Even the adoption was clouded with secrecy and often exploitation. On the other hand in that era society would never have helped or supported those single mothers and their families threw them out and the religious mother n baby homes at least took them in. Life was hugely different. Today in Ireland single parenthood is so accepted there is government help and no one bats an eye. From the viewpoint of an adoptive mother whom I had as a friend for over 30 years I watched her and her husband give two children a great home love affection and open hearts to these two children. My friend never wanted to find out about her past she was happy in her present her brother had immense problems which his adoptive mum blamed herself for and in my opinion she shouldn't have taken on that blame. So this is quite the minefield and is so personal different and unique to each individual. At least today the Catholuc Church here and general society hasn't such an iron grip on people's bodies and minds and people are able to live their lives their way. My mum was a stay at home mum but had to give up her job when she got married. Even though she didn't work afterwards she kept up her interest in her nursing career and graduated twice from college with diplomas in nursing which she completed in middle age with no 3rd level education. She used this to help her family to advise and council her friends and family and organization's. She remained strong and solid to her last despite restrictions from society and religion. She was a true partner in her63 year marriage and opinionated till the end. So there are exceptions to every rule. Cc Ireland well done to this lady for her honesty and happy new year all🎉
Tara ❤❤❤ great seeing you!
Great show!
great guest ❤
what a beautiful person
This will not bring consolation but it needs to be said...even people that had biological families are abandoned. Many of us had to raise ourselves. Poverty kept both parents at work. Addiction/alcoholism kept parents unavailable. Not having guidance kept us alienated from others because we have no idea what is normal or ok. Please be good medicine for each other. We are all alone, together❤
Actually this did not need to be said. The loneliness felt by people with biological families will never be the same as the loneliness felt by an adoptee.
What you just said is akin to saying "all lives matter" when someone says "black lives matter."
@CyrynDragoon What YOU said needed to be said lmao, I came to say the same thing. My trauma as a neglected youth with bio ties is NOT the same to the isolation and trauma experienced by adoptees. Tf kind of comparison.
I've already commented but I should make this clear, if what I commented or replied about offended anyone I didn't mean anything I just have extremely strong opinions on adoption. I recognize adoption can be done wrong but I was adopted almost perfectly by a mother who I feel was God-appointed to be my mother. I had no connection to my bio mom but I had and have a deep connection with my mother so much so that if she dies I would fall into a deep depression while if my bio mom dies and somehow someway I find out about it I would treat it like a stranger dying: sad for the family but I am not her family and don't know her and what I was told about her she wasn't the best person. I pretty much chose my mother, be it the natural body accepted her or my spirit accepted her that's up to you, she didn't choose me.
Another adoptee chiming in here. I also have no relationship with my bio family other than an uncle and his wife. I’m also very glad I was not raised by either side of my biological family and love my adoptive family.
Our experience is not common. We are the outliers in most adoptive situations. And even if we have amazing, kind, compassionate adoptive parents that doesn’t lessen any trauma we had from the initial separation, as babies can’t understand or process that separation like an adult can. I’m really glad your experience was a good one but please remember when we’re in spaces with people who are talking about trauma and adoption that it’s important to be respectful and validating of their story rather than making a blanket “adoption worked out well for me” kind of statement. You are in fact, the minority. And it’s important for those of us who got lucky to hold space and mourn with those who were not as lucky.
@Cosmically_Forsaken Yeah I agree but there is one problem. I have no trauma from the initial separation mainly because the first person to hold me was my mom not my bio. I am 100% removed from any attachment to my bio mom I don't even consider her my real mom I consider my mom my mom and a lot of the "adoption leads to trauma" is due to public opinion and the parents keeping it a secret and the adoptive parent not fully claiming them, my mother 100% claimed me, my family 100% claimed me and saw me not as their adoptive child but their real child. Think about it, if you are adopted as a baby you would have no memory of your bio family but with god-forsaken jokes like "YoUr AdOpTeD" or "NoBoDy WaNtS yOu fOr YoUr AdOpTed" being thrown around that creates fake trauma that didn't exist, could there be trauma? Yes absolutely especially if its older children. Maybe I am blindsided by my own experience that I never had any separation trauma and claimed my mother the moment I met her.
Edit: I should clarify that I was in foster system and never actually knew my bio family. I did have separation trauma but the other way around, when the social worker would come to get me to visit my bio mom they had to pry me from my mother's arms and I would scream and cry until I returned home and a visit went on for hours so much so that at times the visit with my bios had to be cancelled because I would cry so much they worried I would die from crying myself to death. In my young eyes(at the time) I was being taken away from my mother and taken to a stranger's house in my mind my adoptive mother was my real mother and my bio mother was the stranger
@justinatkins737 my godmother is an adoptee who has had to fully cut off both her bio family and adoptive family because they're both extremely abusive in different ways.
I'm glad your experience is different, but most experiences aren't good. It's still human trafficking. It's still a net negative on a national and even somewhat global scale. Anecdotal evidence cannot erase substantiated data.
@@ephraimjohnson8146 I am not an "adoptee" I'm my mother's child I find that word offensive
@@justinatkins737 Okay. I don't think I ever called you an adoptee?
Did u at least eat at Gladys Knight's when u were in ATL?
❤
Not even halfway in (and I’m white) but there’s SO much of what Tara is saying that I get. My son was the first biological family I ever met. The connection was there for me but my trauma showed by being hyper anxious that he would be taken from me for literally no reason.
The deregulation, not knowing who I was, feeling like I should be grateful all the time really hit home too. I was even used as a Sunday school object lesson because I was adopted. 🫠
Sorry in advance if I comment a lot I have FEELINGS lol
🤍🤍🤍 thank you for sharing!