Tried to provide more detail in this DDK friendly game! ●New Store● dwyrins-merch.... ●Twitch● / battsgo ● Support the videos and get rewarded! ● / dwyrin ●About● dwyrin is a full time U.S Go player and teacher
I dont think its quite that. I suspect its because people expect to have to play more complicated as they get stronger since go has a reputation of being one of the worlds most complicated games, so they seek to play more complicated. Oddly enough, getting to Dan level is about the opposite.
@@dwyrin I'm not sure that's necessarily it either. From personal experience, the reason why I used to wildly overplay (just kidding, I still do) is because I constantly feel like I'm behind. It was a lack of estimation skills. Back when I tried playing on tygem I found myself making less bad decisions simply because I could open the estimator and see that no, I am not behind, I don't need to try and start yet another fight.
Big fan of other videos on the channel, but a high dan player stomping random OGS 9kyus isn't a great experience for the person being stomped, & isn't necessary for teaching players who are interested in how to win at this level in an interesting way. An alternative approach I've seen that I really enjoy watching is jumping in to observe a random midgame between two players of the target level & offering commentary of stronger variations in an alternative board (e.g. Baduk Doctor sometimes does this commenting on how to win at Fox 3d-5d level without sandbagging directly). It has the benefit of being more relatable to viewers near that level because they get to observe both players striving to get ahead in what is often an exciting match between two players of near-even skill, in addition to seeing live commentary on your stronger recommendations in the middle of an exciting game.
I think that he is playing simple moves most of the time that don't require much reading so I don't see this as stomping him. But I think that these players would benefit most from doing simple problems and paying attention to basics in higher rank games. The mistakes are too basic still, no need to over analyze their play
Problem is that's theoretical. When I'm playing someone like this you can see the move suggested and the direct response of players at a certain level. I could say that X should be played because it will yield Y variation, but it won't. And that's the problem. A great many of white's continuations this game were ones I would never go over. What I would be left with is a messy game between two 9kyus, and be giving theoretical suggestions on moves that should be played instead, likely followed by variations that would never be seen at that level. The upper left is a fantastic example of this. Never in a billion years would I have even considered showing what happens if white tried to jump into my corner after B13. It's too unreasonable. This way there is no ambiguity. I can suggest a move, and you directly see the response. There is no "but would Z rank really respond that way?" As the saying goes, seeing is believing. Does that make sense? Further, I disagree on a personal level. Some of the best games I've ever learned from haven't been professionals reviewing my games, it's been professionals playing amatuers. Games with a great rank disparity have the luxury of showcasing a principle so that the lesson really sticks in your (my) head in a way that nothing else does. See my reviews of Legend88's games as further example. But I appreciate the feedback!
@@pi4795 Simple is relative. A 9d can beat a 9k by 30-50+ points by playing "simple" moves that require no reading for the 9d. Any match with a final points differential that exceeds 30-50+ points is a stomp. If Dwyrin won these matches by a carefully controlled
@@dwyrin Appreciate the thoughtful response, and respectfully disagree. Perhaps if you check out one of Baduk Doctor's live reviews of Fox 3d vs 3d (or 4d vs 4d; or 5d vs 5d) you'll see a direct refutation to your points in a more entertaining & persuasive way than what I can type up here. Responding to one example you mentioned: if doing a live review of 9k vs 9k and someone plays an unreasonable jump into the upper left corner, you could observe how the 9k attempts to control/kill it, and if it fails, you could show the simplest variation that cleanly kills it then return to the match to watch for the next interesting twist to comment on. IMO Baduk Doctor's live reviews of even games below him are highly instructive & highly entertaining. I agree with your point that some of the most instructive games are pro Vs amateur and I loved your full Legend88 series. The difference was Legend88 didn't come across as sandbagging playing people 15+ stones below him. If you want to play OGS 9kyus & were to let them know up front "Hey, I'm actually Fox 7D-9D, would you mind playing me so I can make an instructional game to post on YT?" If they agree I have zero problem with it, perhaps giving them the option to recreate the match non-ranked. The idea of secretly playing ranked matches Vs ppl 15+ stones weaker than you via an endless line of new accounts just doesn't feel right.
If I was Gary and watched this afterwards I would have learnt so much about things to correct in my play style 😊
yeah, more DDK love!
Thank you. That was helpful.
Glad ya thought so!
Gary plays like someone who thinks Go is about dominating the opponent instead of making trades that are reasonable but also clearly better for you.
I dont think its quite that. I suspect its because people expect to have to play more complicated as they get stronger since go has a reputation of being one of the worlds most complicated games, so they seek to play more complicated. Oddly enough, getting to Dan level is about the opposite.
@@dwyrin Interesting. I will keep that in mind as I progress to 1 dan
@@dwyrin I'm not sure that's necessarily it either. From personal experience, the reason why I used to wildly overplay (just kidding, I still do) is because I constantly feel like I'm behind. It was a lack of estimation skills. Back when I tried playing on tygem I found myself making less bad decisions simply because I could open the estimator and see that no, I am not behind, I don't need to try and start yet another fight.
😀
Big fan of other videos on the channel, but a high dan player stomping random OGS 9kyus isn't a great experience for the person being stomped, & isn't necessary for teaching players who are interested in how to win at this level in an interesting way. An alternative approach I've seen that I really enjoy watching is jumping in to observe a random midgame between two players of the target level & offering commentary of stronger variations in an alternative board (e.g. Baduk Doctor sometimes does this commenting on how to win at Fox 3d-5d level without sandbagging directly). It has the benefit of being more relatable to viewers near that level because they get to observe both players striving to get ahead in what is often an exciting match between two players of near-even skill, in addition to seeing live commentary on your stronger recommendations in the middle of an exciting game.
I think that he is playing simple moves most of the time that don't require much reading so I don't see this as stomping him. But I think that these players would benefit most from doing simple problems and paying attention to basics in higher rank games. The mistakes are too basic still, no need to over analyze their play
Problem is that's theoretical. When I'm playing someone like this you can see the move suggested and the direct response of players at a certain level. I could say that X should be played because it will yield Y variation, but it won't. And that's the problem.
A great many of white's continuations this game were ones I would never go over. What I would be left with is a messy game between two 9kyus, and be giving theoretical suggestions on moves that should be played instead, likely followed by variations that would never be seen at that level. The upper left is a fantastic example of this. Never in a billion years would I have even considered showing what happens if white tried to jump into my corner after B13. It's too unreasonable.
This way there is no ambiguity. I can suggest a move, and you directly see the response. There is no "but would Z rank really respond that way?"
As the saying goes, seeing is believing. Does that make sense?
Further, I disagree on a personal level. Some of the best games I've ever learned from haven't been professionals reviewing my games, it's been professionals playing amatuers. Games with a great rank disparity have the luxury of showcasing a principle so that the lesson really sticks in your (my) head in a way that nothing else does. See my reviews of Legend88's games as further example.
But I appreciate the feedback!
@@pi4795 Simple is relative. A 9d can beat a 9k by 30-50+ points by playing "simple" moves that require no reading for the 9d. Any match with a final points differential that exceeds 30-50+ points is a stomp. If Dwyrin won these matches by a carefully controlled
@@dwyrin Appreciate the thoughtful response, and respectfully disagree. Perhaps if you check out one of Baduk Doctor's live reviews of Fox 3d vs 3d (or 4d vs 4d; or 5d vs 5d) you'll see a direct refutation to your points in a more entertaining & persuasive way than what I can type up here. Responding to one example you mentioned: if doing a live review of 9k vs 9k and someone plays an unreasonable jump into the upper left corner, you could observe how the 9k attempts to control/kill it, and if it fails, you could show the simplest variation that cleanly kills it then return to the match to watch for the next interesting twist to comment on. IMO Baduk Doctor's live reviews of even games below him are highly instructive & highly entertaining.
I agree with your point that some of the most instructive games are pro Vs amateur and I loved your full Legend88 series. The difference was Legend88 didn't come across as sandbagging playing people 15+ stones below him. If you want to play OGS 9kyus & were to let them know up front "Hey, I'm actually Fox 7D-9D, would you mind playing me so I can make an instructional game to post on YT?" If they agree I have zero problem with it, perhaps giving them the option to recreate the match non-ranked. The idea of secretly playing ranked matches Vs ppl 15+ stones weaker than you via an endless line of new accounts just doesn't feel right.
nah