@@sebastianoparenti3536 or have a selvala pili-pala creature, that ends the game then and there, but you can make it so that you don't have the right amount of mana, killing everyone.
@@cedarbenz If they have an altar or so that sacs creatures for mana, you can force them to sac all of them, then cast the wurm as them, after the search happened
Oops, my Selvala didn't get me enough mana, but I already milled a blightsteel colossus with my millikin to attempt to pay the wurm's costs, so where does the Wurm go if I've naturally already shuffled my library due to the replacement effect *while I was searching it*?
I finally found a legit question, what would happen if you play a card that says “opponents hand size is reduced by one” and your opponent has a card that has “you do not have a maximum hand size”. Thinking about it I’d assume the “no maximum hand size” would take priority because how can you reduce a theoretical Infinity (or deck size if it’s known by the non-owner) by 1
You would apply them in timestamp order. So if the "reduce by 1" has the earlier timestamp and the "no max size" comes later, the "no max size" would come last, and the opponent has no max hand size. If it's the other way, the "no max size" would go first, and then you'd reduce the hand size by 1. Infinity minus 1 is infinity, so the opponent still has no max hand size.
To me this case is completely clear. You simply don't have a handsize that could ever be modified. Baparsanko is correct that technically timestamps matter here, but both orders result in you having no maximum handsize. I dislike his explanation however, as not having a hand size is functionally different from having an infinite hand size. Consider cards that set your hand size to a specific number, like Recycle. This can't set your hand size to 2 when you don't have one, whereas with an infinitely sized hand it could.
@@baparsanko So what, I still don't thing this formulation does a good job at explaining no hand size, regardless of who's using it. Makes it sound as though some combo that infinitely reduces it by one would actually affect it. I will admit though, that it's not fundamentally different, as on second thought hand size setting effects probably return your hand size.
That is in fact, exactly what it means. Reference this DDR on upgraded penalties for the reasoning and philosophy behind this: th-cam.com/video/apPrmh5155o/w-d-xo.html
Does marauding blight-priest trigger each time a “gain life” even goes on the stack as in : I control 3 lunarch veterans, I play marauding blight-priest, that means lunarch triggers 3 times, does that mean marauding blight priest’s ability(?) triggers each time? Looking at the card text I’d assume it would
yes, because each is a separate event of life gain. On the other hand, if you had a Blight-Priest in play and cast Revitalize, you would only get 1 trigger, as it's a single instance or gaining 3 life
you have to target yourself and your opponent bro. give yourself a draw and give your opponent either a creature if they have none(orzhov can deal with creatures) or buff any creatures they may have with 1/1 counters. im sure there's scenarios where you would give yourself 1/1 counters but keeping a card advantage with shadrix is optimal
The entire point of that card is to give yourself and an opponent a benefit as sort of a "benefit with a caveat". In multiplayer if you want to choose to opponents to group hug, sure you can. But the primary purpose was to give yourself some benefit then choose the least beneficial option for your opponent
Merry Christmas! I have some questions about the new card Satoru Umezawa and how giving Ninjutsu to some things will work. If I ninjutsu in Myojin of Seeing Winds, does it meet the "if you played it from your hand" requirement for a divinity counter? If I ninjutsu in Thing from the Deep, do I need to sacrifice an island as it is "tapped and attacking"? If I ninjutsu in It That Betrays, does annihilator trigger as it is "tapped and attacking"? Does Suncrusher enter with Sunburst as it colors were "used to pay its cost"? Does Spirt of the Night have first strike (probably only matters if I also somehow control Kwende Pride of Femerer) as it is attacking?
ok so i think myojin wouldnt get its counter. ninjitsu puts it onto the battlefield. this is not playing the card like a cast. ninjitsu doesnt give your attack trigger on anything either. so the thing from the deep isnt declared as an attacker to trigger its ability. so you get one free attack :) you do not get the annihilator trigger from it that betrays. im pretty sure since ninjitsu is an ability its not a casting cost therefore sunburst does not activate. since spirit of the night says "while attacking" and not "when this card attacks" which would be an attack trigger, it does have first strike. with kwende on the field, he does have double strike, but you would have to ninjitsu him in before the combat damage step of the combat phase, which is anytime you have priority during the combat phase, after you declare attackers (if you ninjutsu something in after you declare an attacker but before your opponent declared blockers then they can still block it) the last available time is when you have priority after your opponent declares blockers and passes it back at the end of the declare blockers step. god i hope i answered that right :)
@@moocow17 I had not seen the Myojin oracle text to update to "cast from hand", so I'm fairly sure you're right on all of these, though declaring Spirit of the Night a Ninja before first strike damage rather than before damage is a niche I had not considered. Without Kwende out, if I did ninjutsu him in "before damage", would I actually miss his damage then?
@@benf8252 You wouldn’t miss its damage. If a creature wasn’t eligible to deal damage in the first strike damage step then it deals damage in the regular damage step even if it currently has first strike. This is too prevent players from preventing their opponents’ creatures from dealing damage by given them first strike between the damage steps. The ability to use ninjitsu between the damage steps also means that you can wait for a first striker to deal damage then replace it with a ninjitsu creature which will also deal damage.
1. myojin of seeing winds has had an update to its oracle text. It's replacement effect only procs if you cast it 2. thing from the deep will not force you to sacrifice an island as attack triggers happen when attackers are declared and thing from the deep was not declared as an attacker but rather entered the battlefield attacking 3. It that betrays won't trigger either for the same reasons as #2 4. In the CR, the official definition of sunburst is "If this object is entering the battlefield as a creature, ignoring any type-changing effects that would affect it, it enters the battlefield with a +1/+1 counter on it for each color of mana spent to cast it." since ninjistsu is not casting, suncrusher would not get sunburst 5. Spirit of the night would have first strike since it is a static effect that applies as long as it is attacking and it is attacking as soon as it enters the battlefield if you controlled kwende, then it would have double strike thanks for the judging challenge! happy mtg playing!
@@moocow17 this is a really good answer. one thing I will note is that you can't ninjutsu after attackers and before blockers. part of the cost of ninjutsu requires that the card you return to your hand is unblocked, which can only be determined after blocks are declared. So, technically, the only time to activate ninjutsu is after blocks are declared but before both players pass priority to move to the combat damage step. other than that, your answer is on the money! happy magic playing!
Would there be any way to game this situation wherein a 'trigger goes on stack' is abused by only pointing our the error once you're prepared to benefit from it?
Oh yes. It's almost a feature of the CR. In NEO draft, suppose you cast the Behold the Unspeakable Saga with 4 cards in library to keep me from swinging for lethal. You draw for turn, bringing your hand to two basic islands. You play one, and I call a judge: '[Active player] forgot their trigger.' 'Does that sound right to you? OK, so [non active player] you get the choice of putting the trigger on the stack then or now.' 'I put it on the stack now.' You have 1 card in hand, so you try to draw 4 from a library with 3 cards and deck out. (not a rules judge so I don't know if that's how this situation specifically would work, but you get the idea.) Of course, there is a way to prevent me from angle-shooting like this, and that's to double check your triggers in a set with loads of sagas!
@@ryanstudham640 You wouldn't be able to put it on the stack then without a time machine. The actual choices are "next time a player would receive priority" and "at the beginning of the next phase". There's also the issue that if they forgot about the trigger they also probably forgot about the lore counter, which makes this a Game Rule Violation (and Failure to Maintain Game State on your side) instead of Missed Trigger. A Game Rule Violation allows for a simple back-up if it makes the fix smoother. Undoing a land play falls within the limits of a simple back-up. @ShawnMihalek If the ability was missed prior to the current phase in the previous turn, instruct the players to continue playing. So if you want the trigger to ever go on the stack you have limited time you can wait to (ab)use it.
2:15 - _"All_ tournament players are _not_ just..." I _think_ you mean *_"Not all_* tournament players are just...". The first means that exactly 0% of players are dicks, while the second leaves that figure a little higher than zero. Precision of language is indispensable for precise rulings.
Merry Christmas, Dave. When are we going to get a Pangliacial Wurm episode?
Hilarious card, activate GW selvala to cast the wurm. Don't have enough mana. Where does the wurm go?
@@sebastianoparenti3536 or have a selvala pili-pala creature, that ends the game then and there, but you can make it so that you don't have the right amount of mana, killing everyone.
The interaction between Panglacial Wurm and Opposition Agent is quite interesting and I would like to see the technical rulings regarding those two.
@@cedarbenz If they have an altar or so that sacs creatures for mana, you can force them to sac all of them, then cast the wurm as them, after the search happened
Oops, my Selvala didn't get me enough mana, but I already milled a blightsteel colossus with my millikin to attempt to pay the wurm's costs, so where does the Wurm go if I've naturally already shuffled my library due to the replacement effect *while I was searching it*?
“Unlike what you might see in the movies…” bruh, what movies are you watching XD
I finally found a legit question, what would happen if you play a card that says “opponents hand size is reduced by one” and your opponent has a card that has “you do not have a maximum hand size”.
Thinking about it I’d assume the “no maximum hand size” would take priority because how can you reduce a theoretical Infinity (or deck size if it’s known by the non-owner) by 1
You would apply them in timestamp order. So if the "reduce by 1" has the earlier timestamp and the "no max size" comes later, the "no max size" would come last, and the opponent has no max hand size. If it's the other way, the "no max size" would go first, and then you'd reduce the hand size by 1. Infinity minus 1 is infinity, so the opponent still has no max hand size.
To me this case is completely clear. You simply don't have a handsize that could ever be modified. Baparsanko is correct that technically timestamps matter here, but both orders result in you having no maximum handsize. I dislike his explanation however, as not having a hand size is functionally different from having an infinite hand size. Consider cards that set your hand size to a specific number, like Recycle. This can't set your hand size to 2 when you don't have one, whereas with an infinitely sized hand it could.
@@Krunschy Well, Dave uses the word "infinite" to explain this, so drop the pedantry:
th-cam.com/video/h0lv_WI5og8/w-d-xo.html
@@baparsanko So what, I still don't thing this formulation does a good job at explaining no hand size, regardless of who's using it.
Makes it sound as though some combo that infinitely reduces it by one would actually affect it.
I will admit though, that it's not fundamentally different, as on second thought hand size setting effects probably return your hand size.
@@Krunschy okay. How many cards can I have in my hand at the end of cleanup if I have a Reliquary Tower in play?
Merry Christmas Dave!!!!!!!
What does it mean "this penalty does not upgrade"?
Can I get infinite failure to maintain the game state and never get a game loss?
That is in fact, exactly what it means. Reference this DDR on upgraded penalties for the reasoning and philosophy behind this: th-cam.com/video/apPrmh5155o/w-d-xo.html
Does marauding blight-priest trigger each time a “gain life” even goes on the stack as in : I control 3 lunarch veterans, I play marauding blight-priest, that means lunarch triggers 3 times, does that mean marauding blight priest’s ability(?) triggers each time?
Looking at the card text I’d assume it would
yes, because each is a separate event of life gain. On the other hand, if you had a Blight-Priest in play and cast Revitalize, you would only get 1 trigger, as it's a single instance or gaining 3 life
yes
@@gdiridium5525 And you know if martyr of sands counts as one or 3 life gain instances? I think it changes some years ago but not sure
@@milanmartin4407 It's just one. You gain (3 times X) life once rather than X life three separate times
Merry Christmas ⛄🎄🥰
One that I think would be interesting: shadrix silverquill when playing only 1v1 but you must choose 2 different opponents... :P
you have to target yourself and your opponent bro. give yourself a draw and give your opponent either a creature if they have none(orzhov can deal with creatures) or buff any creatures they may have with 1/1 counters. im sure there's scenarios where you would give yourself 1/1 counters but keeping a card advantage with shadrix is optimal
The entire point of that card is to give yourself and an opponent a benefit as sort of a "benefit with a caveat". In multiplayer if you want to choose to opponents to group hug, sure you can. But the primary purpose was to give yourself some benefit then choose the least beneficial option for your opponent
Yeah, if all players are OK with the solution, there isn't a problem
Merry Christmas! I have some questions about the new card Satoru Umezawa and how giving Ninjutsu to some things will work. If I ninjutsu in Myojin of Seeing Winds, does it meet the "if you played it from your hand" requirement for a divinity counter? If I ninjutsu in Thing from the Deep, do I need to sacrifice an island as it is "tapped and attacking"? If I ninjutsu in It That Betrays, does annihilator trigger as it is "tapped and attacking"? Does Suncrusher enter with Sunburst as it colors were "used to pay its cost"? Does Spirt of the Night have first strike (probably only matters if I also somehow control Kwende Pride of Femerer) as it is attacking?
ok so i think myojin wouldnt get its counter. ninjitsu puts it onto the battlefield. this is not playing the card like a cast. ninjitsu doesnt give your attack trigger on anything either. so the thing from the deep isnt declared as an attacker to trigger its ability. so you get one free attack :) you do not get the annihilator trigger from it that betrays. im pretty sure since ninjitsu is an ability its not a casting cost therefore sunburst does not activate. since spirit of the night says "while attacking" and not "when this card attacks" which would be an attack trigger, it does have first strike. with kwende on the field, he does have double strike, but you would have to ninjitsu him in before the combat damage step of the combat phase, which is anytime you have priority during the combat phase, after you declare attackers (if you ninjutsu something in after you declare an attacker but before your opponent declared blockers then they can still block it) the last available time is when you have priority after your opponent declares blockers and passes it back at the end of the declare blockers step.
god i hope i answered that right :)
@@moocow17 I had not seen the Myojin oracle text to update to "cast from hand", so I'm fairly sure you're right on all of these, though declaring Spirit of the Night a Ninja before first strike damage rather than before damage is a niche I had not considered. Without Kwende out, if I did ninjutsu him in "before damage", would I actually miss his damage then?
@@benf8252 You wouldn’t miss its damage. If a creature wasn’t eligible to deal damage in the first strike damage step then it deals damage in the regular damage step even if it currently has first strike. This is too prevent players from preventing their opponents’ creatures from dealing damage by given them first strike between the damage steps. The ability to use ninjitsu between the damage steps also means that you can wait for a first striker to deal damage then replace it with a ninjitsu creature which will also deal damage.
1. myojin of seeing winds has had an update to its oracle text. It's replacement effect only procs if you cast it
2. thing from the deep will not force you to sacrifice an island as attack triggers happen when attackers are declared and thing from the deep was not declared as an attacker but rather entered the battlefield attacking
3. It that betrays won't trigger either for the same reasons as #2
4. In the CR, the official definition of sunburst is "If this object is entering the battlefield as a creature, ignoring any type-changing effects that would affect it, it enters the battlefield with a +1/+1 counter on it for each color of mana spent to cast it." since ninjistsu is not casting, suncrusher would not get sunburst
5. Spirit of the night would have first strike since it is a static effect that applies as long as it is attacking and it is attacking as soon as it enters the battlefield if you controlled kwende, then it would have double strike
thanks for the judging challenge! happy mtg playing!
@@moocow17 this is a really good answer. one thing I will note is that you can't ninjutsu after attackers and before blockers. part of the cost of ninjutsu requires that the card you return to your hand is unblocked, which can only be determined after blocks are declared. So, technically, the only time to activate ninjutsu is after blocks are declared but before both players pass priority to move to the combat damage step.
other than that, your answer is on the money! happy magic playing!
Would there be any way to game this situation wherein a 'trigger goes on stack' is abused by only pointing our the error once you're prepared to benefit from it?
Oh yes. It's almost a feature of the CR. In NEO draft, suppose you cast the Behold the Unspeakable Saga with 4 cards in library to keep me from swinging for lethal. You draw for turn, bringing your hand to two basic islands. You play one, and I call a judge: '[Active player] forgot their trigger.' 'Does that sound right to you? OK, so [non active player] you get the choice of putting the trigger on the stack then or now.' 'I put it on the stack now.' You have 1 card in hand, so you try to draw 4 from a library with 3 cards and deck out. (not a rules judge so I don't know if that's how this situation specifically would work, but you get the idea.)
Of course, there is a way to prevent me from angle-shooting like this, and that's to double check your triggers in a set with loads of sagas!
@@ryanstudham640 You wouldn't be able to put it on the stack then without a time machine. The actual choices are "next time a player would receive priority" and "at the beginning of the next phase".
There's also the issue that if they forgot about the trigger they also probably forgot about the lore counter, which makes this a Game Rule Violation (and Failure to Maintain Game State on your side) instead of Missed Trigger. A Game Rule Violation allows for a simple back-up if it makes the fix smoother. Undoing a land play falls within the limits of a simple back-up.
@ShawnMihalek If the ability was missed prior to the current phase in the previous turn, instruct the players to continue playing. So if you want the trigger to ever go on the stack you have limited time you can wait to (ab)use it.
Merry Christmas
2:15 - _"All_ tournament players are _not_ just..." I _think_ you mean *_"Not all_* tournament players are just...".
The first means that exactly 0% of players are dicks, while the second leaves that figure a little higher than zero. Precision of language is indispensable for precise rulings.