This was one of the most honest, unbiased, objective assessments I have EVER seen in this industry on a new product. The performance of the 7 Backcountry doesn't surprise me at all. As you guys know, when you run the balls off something, EVERYTHING suffers. Case life, barrel life, precision, ES, consistency...everything. I have never seen one of your videos before today, but you guys have gained a ton of respect from me with this video. Subscribed.
Ive seen other channels have great accuracy and consistent velocity. Actually seen a 6 fps extreme spread in a group. I wonder if this is early batch stuff. Cause this is the first video ive seen with bad velocity
@@ethanfullerton507 I doubt it. There was nothing wrong with the velocity in this video, other than the extreme spreads were awful. One thing you have to understand is that all the OTHER videos you saw on this cartridge, were done by people being PAID by Federal to make the cartridge look good. You have NO IDEA, how much cherry picking was done, to find good extreme spreads and good groups in those OTHER videos. Where AllTerra, makes some of the finest hunting rifles money can buy and they have THEIR reputation to uphold. They are going to put out HONEST information, just like we do at Little Crow Gunworks. We're not going to prop something up on a pedestal unless it deserves it. And neither is AllTerra.
@ Thats absolutely true! None of us know who is getting paid behind the scenes to push stuff. Ron Spomer and Joseph Von Benedict have always been straight shooters, but they could be taking money too. Who knows. I did hear the guy say in this video he was working up loads when he compared the 7prc to the 7 backcountry, if im not mistaken. That would mean he is handloading the 7 prc, which is not a fair comparison. I hand load, of course we get better accuracy, we have control over every aspect of the cartridge to make it perform best for our rifle. Also, for the guys like me who cant justify $5000 custom rifles, being able to buy a factory rifle with a 16”-20” barrel that outperforms the 7prc in a 24” barrel and still get sub moa accuracy from factory loads??!! Im all for it. Im glad i waited on buying a 7PRC. I hate to say it, but if this takes off (which it has a great chance too because of barrel length) it could make the prc cartridges obsolete
@@ethanfullerton507 I think what you're missing is that these guys were not impressed with the accuracy of the 7mm Backcountry...WHEN IT'S BEING RUN THROUGH their $8,000 rifles. So, if it shoots lousy in an $8000 precision rifle, what is it going to do in a $400 Savage? Handloading aside, forget about that. There is a 0% chance that this 7 Backcountry obsoletes ANYTHING.
@ I just think you might be wrong. Youre saying accuracy problems when he shot a .6” average group and a 1” average group. Federal is making 5 loads and they only tested 2 of them. For 99% of hunters that will be more than adequate. Plus, the longer its out the more the kinks will get ironed out. Im just saying, im the target audience for rifle builders. Im 32, love modern cartridges, and im not buying the 7prc i planned on buying next month, im waiting on the 7 backcountry in a 16-20” rifle. I can throw my suppressor on it and stay under 26” and still get 7prc velocity, that’s absolutely amazing. Im not shooting 800 yards, but i am hiking 5-10 miles. Sign me up. Federal patented all this stuff, i suppose because they plan on releasing a 30 cal, 26 cal etc.. Once this settles in, i dont see anyone buying a prc anymore. Why would you? You want a heavier, longer rifle to lug around with less magazine capacity? Makes no sense. Federal knocked it out of the park. Im just glad to see innovation.
I absolutely love the fact driven data, and the fact that you are not pandering to a company that sent you out product to test. It is so refreshing to see a channel that does not pander to companies.
But my thing is he is pretty much blaming accuracy on the manufactured bullets and never mentioned or accounted for HUMAN ERROR bc I guarantee nobody is perfect when shooting any rifle at any caliber, says primer sticking out is mostly due to heads pace on bolt but says nothing wrong with their manufactured rifle, sounds biased to me considering he didn't show on video any test of headspace on rifle
@ I’m talking about things like SDs, ES’s, and overall QC of the ammo itself. I guarantee this will be just like the 68 Western. There will only be one manufacturer making an ammo for it.
@@johnhunt7867we checked headspace, didn’t think we needed to prove on video that we checked it. Would have loved to have a more positive report on this new cartridge but this is how our testing turned out.
@@johnhunt7867these guys shoot 1/4 inch with their guns all the time. They don’t sell a gun they can’t get 1/4 inch with their ammo and 1/2 with factory
Thank the Lord, there are companies honest about their results. Like factually honest. Thanks for the refreshing approach Allterra! Good info helps customers make good decisions.
We the public hunters appreciate the honesty and integrity to “FACTUALLY REPRESENT THE PRODUCTS!!" INTEGRITY IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN MONEY!!!! The race for new cartridges is on…but the “PUBLIC BEING SCAMMED AGAIN AND AGAIN IS WHAT WE ARE SICK OF AND THEN WE DONT TRUST MANUFACTURERS LIKE….. hor na dee😊😊😊😊😊
@@billcarlson852 Like the 7 prc all of a sudden going 100fps less than advertised 🙄 Then they copied the 8.6 blackout when they seen it was going to do well with their 338 arc. Im happy to see Federal take their knees out
Proves again why I trust and respect AllTerra’s. The honest review expressed in this test and video is quite simple, in my personal experience, the way they do business everyday! Congratulations on an excellent job!
That hit probability card is a great visual concept! That hit probability is a small graphic example of why guys wound so many animals out at distance.
My opinion, a very honest review of a up-and-coming new cartridge ,after watching this review , you are going to have a new subscriber , more than anything else ,I like and appreciate honesty ! PS. This is my choice A Winchester 284 with a 170 grain bullet can typically reach velocities around 2,800 feet per second with a well-tuned handload, depending on the specific bullet design and barrel length; some custom setups might achieve slightly higher speeds, near 2,900 fps.
This new cartridge is a great innovation. We’ve not seen much advancement over the years just a few tweaks here and there. If this new alloy can be reloaded, like Federal claims, this will start to change things for the better. We need to move forward, the bugs will be addressed.
I am not sold on this yet but would be interested in playing with it. At this point, traditional cartridges have been beat to death and there has really been little innovation in over 100 years. Until the 277 Fury and now the Backcountry, the only real innovation we have seen is in components (bullets, powder, etc.)
Thank you for the honest, fact-based information! This video shows the type of integrity that you guys run your business with. You could have easily done a quick video touting the superior velocity and ended with call us to place your order today. You guys did your due diligence and know your customers would not be happy with that performance and you would not be happy with providing a rifle that doesn't meet your accuracy standards. I hope this video gets a ton of views and brings you more customers. Good Job!
Awesome analysis y'all are great. God I pray 🙏 people are not shooting that far at game. I handled and shoot regularly. And I try to keep it to 400 on game
Just the deformation of the bullets going into the case is enough to give the dispersion you’re seeing. A proper chamfer and alignment before seating may solve this issue.
Funny how something has to be earth shattering to get a look anymore. Is there only hunting and long distance to speak of on this new cartridge? I mean the 7 PRC came out and people thought it was the best thing since sliced bread until Hornady couldn’t get the powder the cartridge was designed with and velocities dropped. All the while the 28 Nosler is left sitting quietly in the corner. Lol. And even my 28 Nosler, according to Applied Ballistics is stabilizing a 175 grain ACCUBOND LR with a 1:9 twist. I also can’t seem to get the speeds many claim as I’m stuck around 2950 FPS with my particular rifle. That is without seeing signs of pressure. Personally I’m impressed with what I’m seeing from this new cartridge. Modern high BC bullets pushing the envelope from a 20” barrel and making room for what the whole world wants to see become the norm… Suppressors. I’d also like to add there’s a pesky little thing that affects shot placement we’d all love to beat and that’s called wind. Be it a hunter or a target competitor the wind is something to beat. So the average 7mm REM Mag 140ish grain low BC projectiles to today’s offerings of 195 grain projectiles at faster speeds, short barrel and suppressed sounds like a stab in the right direction. Brass. It’s obvious we’ve reached the capabilities of its genetic makeup and something else will take its place. Is this it? Time will tell.
Great data driven analysis. I appreciate your emphasis on all the variables required to make an effective responsible shot. Having a great rifle eliminates one of the critical variables. Having accurate and consistent ammunition is another. Looks like Federal has a good idea, but more work to do.
You have fast production in a case no one can load due to the steel. I could do ladder tests on brass cases and my own loads to create great accuracy. If I had the equipment to load steel I could make more precise loads slowly. Factory ammo typically will not give the MOST precise groups. The primer pressure is a long term concern
Thanks for sharing the whole story and not spinning it. I appreciate the honest assessment and the inclusion of the bad with the good. Based on your side-by-side with your 7 PRC, it is likely that we are just seeing the problems with factory ammo and the difficulty of going past 600 yards when the speed stats don't cut it. It doesn't look like there is anything wrong with your build so Federal will need to re-evaluate their tolerances and see if this new case alloy is to blame or if the whole 80 ksi concept with standard guns is going to work. Maybe we should have them send you prepped primed cases and let you guys handload the charges and seat the bullets?
I think federal will need to fine tune their powders and charges. I hope federal gets their qc narrowed down because this is a really big development and if they don't make it work SOMEBODY will
I'll be interested in seeing what the reloaders come up with. I don't shoot any factory shells in any of my hunting rifles because of the inconsistency of shells to barrels. What rifle/barrel combinition did Federal use in testing and what sd & es did they have.
If the primers are proud, then the ammo head to shoulders are shorter than the headspace gauge assuming the headspace gauge chambered with zero clearance. You did not show the scotch tape test, so we do not know if the rifle is properly headspaced. No comparator headspace measurement between the headspace gauge and the rounds shown, so we do not know what the initial clearances are. The primers backing out means that the cartridges are sticking in the chamber and not pressing hard against the bolt face, which means the cartridges are loose in the chamber to start, then the firing pin strike is forcing the whole cartridge forward and never sliding back again to the bolt face which would reseat the primers. So the cartridge necks expanding enough to seal the system, but the case is not streaching or sliding back to reseat the primers. No statement what the primer protrusion is, so difficult to judge the headspace clearance. Too many data points missing. In your hit probability passage, there was no indication whether the Allterra ammo is handloads or mass produced. I would bet the neck tension in the Fed Peak cases is very hard to control if my experiences with SST NAS3 cases are any indicator.
I agree there is something not right in their chambers causing lower velocity sticky bolts and blown out primers. their es and SDs aren't even close to the other data I've seen so far from other rifles shooting same ammo. You could be right about the headspace.
@@jjmckay6man1 The other videos are only doing 3 to 5 shot velocity measurements which most likely hides the real SD/ES figures, and that goes for the groups as well.
@@ewathoughts8476 I read an article where he did 4 groups of 5 and over all the types of ammo they are releasing. He showed the average of the 4 groups. Seems pretty consistent.
@@ewathoughts8476 0 to 300(that is where I hunt within) those aren't really an issue and have seen much closer data from other rifles. not worried at all about what I see here.
We will find out how vested Federal and the rifle makers will be this year. Meaning, will likely see a 6.5 BackCountry and 30 cal BackCountry as well. Personally, I think Federal will be quite cautious and will ride out the 7mm at least a year (starting from it's initial release to their testing partners). As stated, the entire foundation for this development is for folks who wish to have a short barrel with or w/o a suppressor. Personally, the primary and secondary data that's most important is accuracy/consistency of the ammo and then barrel life. My guess is this hotrod will erode a throat in short order. Since they starting building rifles in this cartridge in June of 2024 it would have been easy to run 1000-2000 rounds by now. I'd want bore scope pics/videos of the throat.
yep I'm excited to get a 16.5" rifle for northern whitetail in dense cover. will be so much more handy than a 22 or 24" rifle. while still maintaining awesome velocity. saw the 170TA shoot 2900+ out of a 16.5" Garmin chrono.
I think the alloy cases are here to stay. Brass is pretty much maxed out. Im not sold on the 7mm backcountry yet. But a 16 inch inch rifle with a can would be one heck of a mountain rilfe. Something like a seekins element in a 16 inch barrel. A folding chasis 16 inch rifle would fit anywhere in a pack and hunt anything you wanted. I thought 7prc was everything i ever wanted till i started using a can more and more. I bet money the other ammo companies are gonna start scrambling to get alloy cases out if they already dont have em in testing as we speak. Seekins just did a video on how they were revamping their rifles for the new higher pressure cases. A few are seeing that its gonna be the future we head towards.
I really enjoyed this video. Thank you for being so honest. I think the long range hunting craze has gone too far. Shooting steel and shooting big game are two different things! In my opinion long range hunting is 400 to 500 yards. Due to so many variables in hunting. Too many to list. Shooting from a bench is so different. I would say that at least 70 % of hunters don’t shoot more than 30 rounds a year. And less than 200 yards. It’s nice to see innovation! But I will wait for a couple years for the dust to settle. Cheers
Serious question... I've watched a few other reviews and have seen standard deviations as low as less than 3. I know you guys shot a ton of rounds through this rifle but are there any other reasons this could be the case? Am I missing a variable or are these other guys just pulling the wool over my eyes?
On the idea of having a short barrel for use of a suppressor, did you do much testing with a suppressor on? And which one? I don't think many would be rated for 80,000 psi.
its hard to make a conclusion when there is limited ammo selection and a single rifle. I like the honesty and I really hope this cartridge does well. I think its pushing the innovation in the right direction, but if it doesn't work then it is what it is. I will be watching it closely for the next year
Is the hit probability calculator available to the world or is it an alterra in house product? I’d love to run the numbers from my set up and see how it looks! Thanks
I bet we are going to see some challenges at 80,000 psi as far as accuracy that we arent use to dealling with. The powder and harmonics are just going to act different than what we are use to. Possibility new challenges when reloading being a new cartridge material.
Saw another video where they got similar results between the terminal assent and the federal fusion. Got better groups with the fusion ammo in a proof research rifle 7mm back country. He killed a bull elk at 500 plus yards with the fusion ammo , 1 shot in Texas. I know the fusion ammo is marketed more as white tail or mule deer ammo but it put the smack down on the elk. Thanks for the video.
Great video. So curious about this cartridge and how it would shoot. You should throw it into a 24 or 26” barrel to see if the accuracy and velocity improves.
Your standard deviation for the 175 Fusion must be incorrect. It's only 5 fps away from the extreme spread. That's going to dramatically reduce the calculated hit probability.
You don't understand SD then. If your data is bot concentrated at the mean. You SD will increase substantially. What a SD of that size indicates is that most data points are more biased to the high and low extremes.
When i have the extra cash i will for sure get a custom allterra masterpiece. But not in this caliber. If u were to get one rifle that could take all the big game in north america and be packable... what caliber config would it be?
My natural suspicions are confirmed - 7mm BC has issues. I'm still shopping my next 7mm Mag or .300 Mag LR hunting / target rifle. The massive velocity spread and pushed out primers will definitely be an issue. I own 7mm Mag, .300 Mag, .338 Lapua, .30-06, .308, 6.5 CM, and others but only my 6.5 CM is a a sub 1/2 MOA gun.
@@thelonggunner762 that is why they want prefit barrels for this caliber!!!! They absolutely know it is a barrel burner!!!! But federal does not want that to be disclosed to be able to launch this caliber!!!!
I wonder if the 280 Remington,280 Express,is the same case,as the Back country,im surprised that you didn't use as a comparison,but the video isn't over,thanks for getting to the point
I like innovation. The truth will come out when these cases are able to be reloaded, and we might be able to find sweet spots with different powders that dont have to get up to 80k psi. If we can get 100% case fill with a faster or bulkier powder and not be restricted to 65k, it could be a game changer. I could see people, myself included in getting something bigger than i need to be able to tone it down-dial it in- and still get better velocity than other cartridges.
Similar result to 308 vs 300 WM; at a 1000 yds my 308 with 168 grn ELD’s outperformed the Win Mag with 208 grn ELD’s. For the avoidance of doubt only pieces of paper were harmed in this experiment.
Last week we dug up some original Hornady 7 PRC ammo from when it was first launched. We were getting 2,880 out of a 20" that we just finished. Their 7 PRC ammo has since slowed down with powder changes. Those initial lots of ammo released around launch were fast.
I have experienced cut rifle barrels to be very erratic till over 100 rounds then get very consistent. Other videos with proof rifle has been .8” avg groups and single digit ES. He has had the rifle for almost a year and lots of rounds down the barrel. One reason I don’t like to run cut rifles barrels all the time. BSF barrel was accurate immediately. All my others had to just shoot the crap out of them before I could get a load.
The true solution the wanting to run a suppressor while not making your gun forever long is a bullpup rifle. Full length barrels maintaining advertised velocity while being the overall length of Standard rifle with a 20 inch barrel.
I agree with what you are saying lets just take it a step further. If the range and effectiveness is for a 30-30 then so be it but If you are taking a longer shot 900/1000 yds say effective kill zone fine but increased velocity gives you better results when factoring wind deflection even at 600 or 500 the faster model gives you better oops factor for wind..right :-) be well guys and thanks
My initial thoughts were superior wind drift performance and increased recoil. I think in windy conditions and medium range this might be a good choice until higher BC bullets can be loaded. Did Federal give any data on powder ?
We have known for years that short barrels and decent to large case capacity do not yield consistent velocities. If you have to depend on factory ammunition like I'm sure will be the case for this round the consistency just isn't there in a short barrel. The 24-inch barrel will likely tame a lot of the SD. If possible, I would like to see a side-by-side comparison of 20in vs 24in.
@jjmckay6man1 ok here is a bigger issue. Federal doesn't support their own cartridges. 30 super carry, 327 Federal, 338 Federal, 224 val. Another issue if using 20in velocity with that 175 at 3000fps you are only 150fps over a 162gr in 7mm08 with a 22in barrel having the same overall rifle length being 7bc is a long action vs a short. Third only the sig cross action was made with continuous 80000psi use. Yes I understand proof tests are even greater pressures but that is a one time check not constant use. The biggest issue is 7wsm does the exact same thing in a short action with a 22in barrel.
@@BrandonK-r2z what impressed me is the 2900fps with 170gr in a 16.5" barrel. that same barrel shoots the 155gr load at 3050. No cartridges out there can match them on equal playing field. Yes I know what the WSM can do I've been reloading for 300wsm for 20 years. even they can not do these things in a 16.5" barrel. they can come within 100 to 150 fps sure but that extra 100 to 150 energy difference is larger with that extra velocity. you are getting standard cartridge ballistics from 24 in barrels but at a 16.5" length. As far as pressures go this is only 15k over saami spec on many cartridges. I've seen good brass handle that @80k and still be reloaded. no issues whatsoever with the new firearms.
@@BrandonK-r2z "federal doesn't support their own cartridges" I go onto federal ammunition website to find 6 different loadings for 327 federal available. lets check the others shall we..oh look at that 10 different 30 super carry loads available. lets check 338 federal. yep still 1 load for 200 grain fusion. oh and look at that 5 different loads for 224 valk. Seems someone is a liar here and it isn't me.
Interesting results. I am not convinced either way yet without more testing. I know build a fine rifle, but maybe the barrel is a problem or something else. My biased wants this round to outperform everything out there with a 20" barrel. I am sure if you loaded these rounds, it would have a much less deviation in fps. It is going to be very difficult to load for this gun with this steel or like steel case. Resizing will be dam near impossible. The juice might not be worth the squeeze.
top reason to buy a new 7mm round... does this round have this #1: CHEAPER #2: accurate #3: less recoil #4: more compact with at similar longer barrels
Can I get some clarification on the ammo used in the 7prc that you showed on the diagram to reach the 66% vs the lower percentages of the 7 BC. The graphic shows you used 175 Eldx but you made comment about using AllTerra premium ammo. Can you speak to if you’re comparing custom ammo vs factory ammo? Wouldn’t a more effective study be running factory in both? Seems unfair to compare custom ammo vs factory. Thanks for clarification
yep gonna buy the 110 trail light I think it is called with a 16.5" barrel. saw chrono data on a 16.5" shooting the 170gr TA load at 2900 plus. has me stoked for a dense woods rifle for northern whitetails.
@jjmckay6man1 they are being honest or got more money from hornady seems to me they are pushing the 7mm prc in video and all of the other gun manufacturers seem to not having the problem's they are.
@@MarkCline-o4h they are definitely seeing different results. As to whether it is their chambers the ammo lot, who knows really. they seem honest to me I just think there is something not right. As you said others are not having these issues that I've seen. Data doesn't lie but the cause of different data remains to be seen.
I have owned three Tikka rifles in 308, 6.5 creedmoor and 6.5 PRC and they all shot 0.3-0.5 MOA out of the box. I have now bought a custom rifle with top components and it does not shoot as well as the Tikka.
I have a custom 280 AI. It is a 24 inch Krueger 1-9 barrel using 168 Berger’s. It shoots lights out with velocity of 3035 fps. No pressure issues. Don’t see the benefit of the 7 Back Country unless you want a short barrel. Can’t reload and that is a no go for me.
Don't you think the accuracy is just an ammo issue? Once you're able to load "AllTerra 7 Backcountry premium ammo" you'll be on the same page as the 7PRC - or probably much better?
Definitely an ammo issue. However the ammo is all you can buy at this point in time, and on the box it makes claims about long range performance. If we could hand load for the 7 BC then we absolutely would have.
It would have been good to see a few shots suppressed. It might help a little on velocities, and accuracy especially since it’s one of the reasons why people are ordering shorter barrels.
Looks more like with the popped primers get Peterson to make regular brass put a 28" barrel on it make it a 2000 plus yard steel killer with lower pressures.
Here is what I want to know With a standard 24 inch barrel, slowing the powder down, stuffing it to the brim up to that 80k psi and see the velocity...
I haven’t heard if you can reload for this. If not, it’s a definite pass for me. I’ll stick with my 26” 7wsm shooting 180 Bergers at over 2,900 fps with a much lower ES/SD
Yall missed a big part. If you can push a high BC heavy for caliber bullet faster then you have less wind drift. Why my 6.5 PRC gets half the wind drift or more than my Creed. Dialing a little more isn't an issue. It's the wind drift.
There's a lot of great information here, but I have one question. Did you actually shoot it at distance? If not, then your information and test are incomplete.
This was one of the most honest, unbiased, objective assessments I have EVER seen in this industry on a new product.
The performance of the 7 Backcountry doesn't surprise me at all.
As you guys know, when you run the balls off something, EVERYTHING suffers. Case life, barrel life, precision, ES, consistency...everything.
I have never seen one of your videos before today, but you guys have gained a ton of respect from me with this video.
Subscribed.
Ive seen other channels have great accuracy and consistent velocity. Actually seen a 6 fps extreme spread in a group. I wonder if this is early batch stuff. Cause this is the first video ive seen with bad velocity
@@ethanfullerton507 I doubt it. There was nothing wrong with the velocity in this video, other than the extreme spreads were awful.
One thing you have to understand is that all the OTHER videos you saw on this cartridge, were done by people being PAID by Federal to make the cartridge look good. You have NO IDEA, how much cherry picking was done, to find good extreme spreads and good groups in those OTHER videos.
Where AllTerra, makes some of the finest hunting rifles money can buy and they have THEIR reputation to uphold. They are going to put out HONEST information, just like we do at Little Crow Gunworks.
We're not going to prop something up on a pedestal unless it deserves it. And neither is AllTerra.
@ Thats absolutely true! None of us know who is getting paid behind the scenes to push stuff. Ron Spomer and Joseph Von Benedict have always been straight shooters, but they could be taking money too. Who knows. I did hear the guy say in this video he was working up loads when he compared the 7prc to the 7 backcountry, if im not mistaken. That would mean he is handloading the 7 prc, which is not a fair comparison. I hand load, of course we get better accuracy, we have control over every aspect of the cartridge to make it perform best for our rifle. Also, for the guys like me who cant justify $5000 custom rifles, being able to buy a factory rifle with a 16”-20” barrel that outperforms the 7prc in a 24” barrel and still get sub moa accuracy from factory loads??!! Im all for it. Im glad i waited on buying a 7PRC. I hate to say it, but if this takes off (which it has a great chance too because of barrel length) it could make the prc cartridges obsolete
@@ethanfullerton507 I think what you're missing is that these guys were not impressed with the accuracy of the 7mm Backcountry...WHEN IT'S BEING RUN THROUGH their $8,000 rifles.
So, if it shoots lousy in an $8000 precision rifle, what is it going to do in a $400 Savage?
Handloading aside, forget about that.
There is a 0% chance that this 7 Backcountry obsoletes ANYTHING.
@ I just think you might be wrong. Youre saying accuracy problems when he shot a .6” average group and a 1” average group. Federal is making 5 loads and they only tested 2 of them. For 99% of hunters that will be more than adequate. Plus, the longer its out the more the kinks will get ironed out. Im just saying, im the target audience for rifle builders. Im 32, love modern cartridges, and im not buying the 7prc i planned on buying next month, im waiting on the 7 backcountry in a 16-20” rifle. I can throw my suppressor on it and stay under 26” and still get 7prc velocity, that’s absolutely amazing. Im not shooting 800 yards, but i am hiking 5-10 miles. Sign me up. Federal patented all this stuff, i suppose because they plan on releasing a 30 cal, 26 cal etc.. Once this settles in, i dont see anyone buying a prc anymore. Why would you? You want a heavier, longer rifle to lug around with less magazine capacity? Makes no sense. Federal knocked it out of the park. Im just glad to see innovation.
I absolutely love the fact driven data, and the fact that you are not pandering to a company that sent you out product to test. It is so refreshing to see a channel that does not pander to companies.
But my thing is he is pretty much blaming accuracy on the manufactured bullets and never mentioned or accounted for HUMAN ERROR bc I guarantee nobody is perfect when shooting any rifle at any caliber, says primer sticking out is mostly due to heads pace on bolt but says nothing wrong with their manufactured rifle, sounds biased to me considering he didn't show on video any test of headspace on rifle
@ I’m talking about things like SDs, ES’s, and overall QC of the ammo itself. I guarantee this will be just like the 68 Western. There will only be one manufacturer making an ammo for it.
@@johnhunt7867we checked headspace, didn’t think we needed to prove on video that we checked it. Would have loved to have a more positive report on this new cartridge but this is how our testing turned out.
Ol’ fact lover lol 😂
@@johnhunt7867these guys shoot 1/4 inch with their guns all the time. They don’t sell a gun they can’t get 1/4 inch with their ammo and 1/2 with factory
Thank the Lord, there are companies honest about their results. Like factually honest. Thanks for the refreshing approach Allterra! Good info helps customers make good decisions.
We the public hunters appreciate the honesty and integrity to “FACTUALLY REPRESENT THE PRODUCTS!!"
INTEGRITY IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN MONEY!!!!
The race for new cartridges is on…but the “PUBLIC BEING SCAMMED AGAIN AND AGAIN IS WHAT WE ARE SICK OF AND THEN WE DONT TRUST MANUFACTURERS LIKE….. hor na dee😊😊😊😊😊
@@billcarlson852 Like the 7 prc all of a sudden going 100fps less than advertised 🙄 Then they copied the 8.6 blackout when they seen it was going to do well with their 338 arc. Im happy to see Federal take their knees out
ease off the caps bud
Proves again why I trust and respect AllTerra’s. The honest review expressed in this test and video is quite simple, in my personal experience, the way they do business everyday! Congratulations on an excellent job!
That hit probability card is a great visual concept! That hit probability is a small graphic example of why guys wound so many animals out at distance.
Nicely done guys. Cut through the hype and got down to facts.
I'm glad Federal came out with this. Only because your video came up on my feed. Good job! I'm glad to subscribe.
Subscribed because of your honesty and transparency!
Fantastic video and refreshing to hear the pros & cons of a newly released cartridge. Kudos!
My opinion, a very honest review of a up-and-coming new cartridge ,after watching this review , you are going to have a new subscriber , more than anything else ,I like and appreciate honesty !
PS. This is my choice
A Winchester 284 with a 170 grain bullet can typically reach velocities around 2,800 feet per second with a well-tuned handload, depending on the specific bullet design and barrel length; some custom setups might achieve slightly higher speeds, near 2,900 fps.
Well done, I appreciate your candid report.
I am still intrigued.
I’m going to stay tuned.
This new cartridge is a great innovation. We’ve not seen much advancement over the years just a few tweaks here and there. If this new alloy can be reloaded, like Federal claims, this will start to change things for the better. We need to move forward, the bugs will be addressed.
I am not sold on this yet but would be interested in playing with it. At this point, traditional cartridges have been beat to death and there has really been little innovation in over 100 years. Until the 277 Fury and now the Backcountry, the only real innovation we have seen is in components (bullets, powder, etc.)
This is a great video you guys have my vote for credibility.
Thank you for the honest, fact-based information! This video shows the type of integrity that you guys run your business with. You could have easily done a quick video touting the superior velocity and ended with call us to place your order today. You guys did your due diligence and know your customers would not be happy with that performance and you would not be happy with providing a rifle that doesn't meet your accuracy standards. I hope this video gets a ton of views and brings you more customers. Good Job!
Awesome analysis y'all are great. God I pray 🙏 people are not shooting that far at game. I handled and shoot regularly. And I try to keep it to 400 on game
Just the deformation of the bullets going into the case is enough to give the dispersion you’re seeing. A proper chamfer and alignment before seating may solve this issue.
Great review very well documented, Thanks for the test shots detail.
Funny how something has to be earth shattering to get a look anymore. Is there only hunting and long distance to speak of on this new cartridge? I mean the 7 PRC came out and people thought it was the best thing since sliced bread until Hornady couldn’t get the powder the cartridge was designed with and velocities dropped. All the while the 28 Nosler is left sitting quietly in the corner. Lol. And even my 28 Nosler, according to Applied Ballistics is stabilizing a 175 grain ACCUBOND LR with a 1:9 twist. I also can’t seem to get the speeds many claim as I’m stuck around 2950 FPS with my particular rifle. That is without seeing signs of pressure.
Personally I’m impressed with what I’m seeing from this new cartridge. Modern high BC bullets pushing the envelope from a 20” barrel and making room for what the whole world wants to see become the norm… Suppressors. I’d also like to add there’s a pesky little thing that affects shot placement we’d all love to beat and that’s called wind. Be it a hunter or a target competitor the wind is something to beat. So the average 7mm REM Mag 140ish grain low BC projectiles to today’s offerings of 195 grain projectiles at faster speeds, short barrel and suppressed sounds like a stab in the right direction.
Brass. It’s obvious we’ve reached the capabilities of its genetic makeup and something else will take its place. Is this it? Time will tell.
Definitely room for improvement. I think we are seeing the future though.
Great data driven analysis. I appreciate your emphasis on all the variables required to make an effective responsible shot. Having a great rifle eliminates one of the critical variables. Having accurate and consistent ammunition is another. Looks like Federal has a good idea, but more work to do.
Subscribed! Your honesty got you another follower.
Great, honest, video…takes a lot of stones to be a part of a beta group and then show the not-so-great results.
That's right Gary. You've been warned. 😆
You have fast production in a case no one can load due to the steel. I could do ladder tests on brass cases and my own loads to create great accuracy. If I had the equipment to load steel I could make more precise loads slowly. Factory ammo typically will not give the MOST precise groups. The primer pressure is a long term concern
Great information and honest!!! Thanks for sharing your data.
You guys have done a service to the shooting public with this. I hope Federal gets the ammo dialed, but it doesn’t look like they are quite there yet.
Thank you for this. Beautiful rifle!
I agree with your findings on the 7mm Backcountry, and had come to the same conclusions. For now, I'll stick with my 7mm PRC and .28 Nosler.
Thanks for sharing the whole story and not spinning it. I appreciate the honest assessment and the inclusion of the bad with the good. Based on your side-by-side with your 7 PRC, it is likely that we are just seeing the problems with factory ammo and the difficulty of going past 600 yards when the speed stats don't cut it. It doesn't look like there is anything wrong with your build so Federal will need to re-evaluate their tolerances and see if this new case alloy is to blame or if the whole 80 ksi concept with standard guns is going to work.
Maybe we should have them send you prepped primed cases and let you guys handload the charges and seat the bullets?
I think federal will need to fine tune their powders and charges. I hope federal gets their qc narrowed down because this is a really big development and if they don't make it work SOMEBODY will
I'll be interested in seeing what the reloaders come up with. I don't shoot any factory shells in any of my hunting rifles because of the inconsistency of shells to barrels.
What rifle/barrel combinition did Federal use in testing and what sd & es did they have.
What about reloading for it? Is Lapua gonna make brass?
Would the .280 Remington shoot out of the 7mm Backcountry chamber ?
Great video and data. Super informative and honest.
If the primers are proud, then the ammo head to shoulders are shorter than the headspace gauge assuming the headspace gauge chambered with zero clearance. You did not show the scotch tape test, so we do not know if the rifle is properly headspaced. No comparator headspace measurement between the headspace gauge and the rounds shown, so we do not know what the initial clearances are. The primers backing out means that the cartridges are sticking in the chamber and not pressing hard against the bolt face, which means the cartridges are loose in the chamber to start, then the firing pin strike is forcing the whole cartridge forward and never sliding back again to the bolt face which would reseat the primers. So the cartridge necks expanding enough to seal the system, but the case is not streaching or sliding back to reseat the primers. No statement what the primer protrusion is, so difficult to judge the headspace clearance. Too many data points missing. In your hit probability passage, there was no indication whether the Allterra ammo is handloads or mass produced. I would bet the neck tension in the Fed Peak cases is very hard to control if my experiences with SST NAS3 cases are any indicator.
I agree there is something not right in their chambers causing lower velocity sticky bolts and blown out primers. their es and SDs aren't even close to the other data I've seen so far from other rifles shooting same ammo. You could be right about the headspace.
@@jjmckay6man1 The other videos are only doing 3 to 5 shot velocity measurements which most likely hides the real SD/ES figures, and that goes for the groups as well.
@@ewathoughts8476 I read an article where he did 4 groups of 5 and over all the types of ammo they are releasing. He showed the average of the 4 groups. Seems pretty consistent.
@@ewathoughts8476 0 to 300(that is where I hunt within) those aren't really an issue and have seen much closer data from other rifles. not worried at all about what I see here.
We will find out how vested Federal and the rifle makers will be this year. Meaning, will likely see a 6.5 BackCountry and 30 cal BackCountry as well. Personally, I think Federal will be quite cautious and will ride out the 7mm at least a year (starting from it's initial release to their testing partners).
As stated, the entire foundation for this development is for folks who wish to have a short barrel with or w/o a suppressor. Personally, the primary and secondary data that's most important is accuracy/consistency of the ammo and then barrel life. My guess is this hotrod will erode a throat in short order. Since they starting building rifles in this cartridge in June of 2024 it would have been easy to run 1000-2000 rounds by now. I'd want bore scope pics/videos of the throat.
yep I'm excited to get a 16.5" rifle for northern whitetail in dense cover. will be so much more handy than a 22 or 24" rifle. while still maintaining awesome velocity. saw the 170TA shoot 2900+ out of a 16.5" Garmin chrono.
I think the alloy cases are here to stay. Brass is pretty much maxed out. Im not sold on the 7mm backcountry yet. But a 16 inch inch rifle with a can would be one heck of a mountain rilfe. Something like a seekins element in a 16 inch barrel. A folding chasis 16 inch rifle would fit anywhere in a pack and hunt anything you wanted. I thought 7prc was everything i ever wanted till i started using a can more and more. I bet money the other ammo companies are gonna start scrambling to get alloy cases out if they already dont have em in testing as we speak. Seekins just did a video on how they were revamping their rifles for the new higher pressure cases. A few are seeing that its gonna be the future we head towards.
I really enjoyed this video.
Thank you for being so honest.
I think the long range hunting craze has gone too far.
Shooting steel and shooting big game are two different things!
In my opinion long range hunting is 400 to 500 yards.
Due to so many variables in hunting.
Too many to list.
Shooting from a bench is so different.
I would say that at least 70 % of hunters don’t shoot more than 30 rounds a year.
And less than 200 yards.
It’s nice to see innovation! But I will wait for a couple years for the dust to settle.
Cheers
Serious question... I've watched a few other reviews and have seen standard deviations as low as less than 3. I know you guys shot a ton of rounds through this rifle but are there any other reasons this could be the case? Am I missing a variable or are these other guys just pulling the wool over my eyes?
We chambered numerous barrels and all of our data was about the same.
Sounds to me like it could be different lots of ammo
On the idea of having a short barrel for use of a suppressor, did you do much testing with a suppressor on? And which one? I don't think many would be rated for 80,000 psi.
"Mommy, I want Aaron Rodgers."
"No, dear . . . we have Aaron Rodgers at home."
its hard to make a conclusion when there is limited ammo selection and a single rifle. I like the honesty and I really hope this cartridge does well. I think its pushing the innovation in the right direction, but if it doesn't work then it is what it is. I will be watching it closely for the next year
Is the hit probability calculator available to the world or is it an alterra in house product? I’d love to run the numbers from my set up and see how it looks! Thanks
I think something can be set up in 4DOF but not sure.
Why aren't they giving numbers on the case circumference length size
it is a standard .478" bolt face like the 308 and 30-06.
Great info, new to your channel. Im a fan
I bet we are going to see some challenges at 80,000 psi as far as accuracy that we arent use to dealling with. The powder and harmonics are just going to act different than what we are use to. Possibility new challenges when reloading being a new cartridge material.
Saw another video where they got similar results between the terminal assent and the federal fusion. Got better groups with the fusion ammo in a proof research rifle 7mm back country. He killed a bull elk at 500 plus yards with the fusion ammo , 1 shot in Texas. I know the fusion ammo is marketed more as white tail or mule deer ammo but it put the smack down on the elk. Thanks for the video.
Good to know, thanks
Nicely done, I think another rifle or two for testing would be a more realistic test.
What is the twist rate
Great video. So curious about this cartridge and how it would shoot. You should throw it into a 24 or 26” barrel to see if the accuracy and velocity improves.
Your standard deviation for the 175 Fusion must be incorrect. It's only 5 fps away from the extreme spread. That's going to dramatically reduce the calculated hit probability.
I saw that too. It actually tracks given how high both were.
You don't understand SD then. If your data is bot concentrated at the mean. You SD will increase substantially. What a SD of that size indicates is that most data points are more biased to the high and low extremes.
@ exactly.
@@rschwarck44 This
When i have the extra cash i will for sure get a custom allterra masterpiece. But not in this caliber. If u were to get one rifle that could take all the big game in north america and be packable... what caliber config would it be?
And yes i am a hunter not a sniper. 500yds absolutly max range
My natural suspicions are confirmed - 7mm BC has issues. I'm still shopping my next 7mm Mag or .300 Mag LR hunting / target rifle. The massive velocity spread and pushed out primers will definitely be an issue. I own 7mm Mag, .300 Mag, .338 Lapua, .30-06, .308, 6.5 CM, and others but only my 6.5 CM is a a sub 1/2 MOA gun.
How many rounds are you getting out of a barrel? I would think its significantly shorter with that high of pressures.
@@thelonggunner762 500 - 800
@@thelonggunner762 that is why they want prefit barrels for this caliber!!!! They absolutely know it is a barrel burner!!!!
But federal does not want that to be disclosed to be able to launch this caliber!!!!
Nice video what scope is on this bolt action rifle and what power
I wonder if the 280 Remington,280 Express,is the same case,as the Back country,im surprised that you didn't use as a comparison,but the video isn't over,thanks for getting to the point
It isn’t the same. It’s closer to the .280 ai, but with a 30° shoulder instead of a 37-40° shoulder.
@@SammyMoore-tg5gs n shorter than the AI
I like innovation. The truth will come out when these cases are able to be reloaded, and we might be able to find sweet spots with different powders that dont have to get up to 80k psi. If we can get 100% case fill with a faster or bulkier powder and not be restricted to 65k, it could be a game changer.
I could see people, myself included in getting something bigger than i need to be able to tone it down-dial it in- and still get better velocity than other cartridges.
Was the 7prc test done with factory loaded ammo?
@@dillonshanley71 yes
@@billcarlson852 how do you know it just said 175eldx?
@@billcarlson852no it was handloads
Similar result to 308 vs 300 WM; at a 1000 yds my 308 with 168 grn ELD’s outperformed the Win Mag with 208 grn ELD’s. For the avoidance of doubt only pieces of paper were harmed in this experiment.
Any word from Federal on your testing?
We provided this exact feedback throughout the months of our testing.
Excellent video.
Another factor is the pricing of this ammo. What is the cost compared to the 7PRC? Highly likely that reloading will not come very soon.
You are not getting 2820 with factory Hornady ammo in a 20" PRC.
saw a 16.5" shoot the 170gr TA load at over 2900. garmin chrono.
Last week we dug up some original Hornady 7 PRC ammo from when it was first launched. We were getting 2,880 out of a 20" that we just finished. Their 7 PRC ammo has since slowed down with powder changes. Those initial lots of ammo released around launch were fast.
federal needs to get that ammo more consistent
I have experienced cut rifle barrels to be very erratic till over 100 rounds then get very consistent. Other videos with proof rifle has been .8” avg groups and single digit ES. He has had the rifle for almost a year and lots of rounds down the barrel. One reason I don’t like to run cut rifles barrels all the time. BSF barrel was accurate immediately. All my others had to just shoot the crap out of them before I could get a load.
why not just use 30-06 with that new case and 190 grain accubond lr that would be the prefect combo if you get it to 2800 to 2900
Good job 👍 thanks
I support a 7mm-08 Ackley Improved model. 22 inch muzzle brake equipped 1 in 8 twist rate.
The true solution the wanting to run a suppressor while not making your gun forever long is a bullpup rifle. Full length barrels maintaining advertised velocity while being the overall length of Standard rifle with a 20 inch barrel.
What is the gun? I think I missed you mention it
So how long till we see the 300 backcountry
So the barrel gets hot fast to have flyer.
I agree with what you are saying lets just take it a step further. If the range and effectiveness is for a 30-30 then so be it but If you are taking a longer shot 900/1000 yds say effective kill zone fine but increased velocity gives you better results when factoring wind deflection even at 600 or 500 the faster model gives you better oops factor for wind..right :-) be well guys and thanks
My initial thoughts were superior wind drift performance and increased recoil. I think in windy conditions and medium range this might be a good choice until higher BC bullets can be loaded. Did Federal give any data on powder ?
Thanks for the straight dope. What stock is on that test rifle?
That's our AllTerra-X stock. We make them in-house, and have a video on that process.
We have known for years that short barrels and decent to large case capacity do not yield consistent velocities. If you have to depend on factory ammunition like I'm sure will be the case for this round the consistency just isn't there in a short barrel. The 24-inch barrel will likely tame a lot of the SD. If possible, I would like to see a side-by-side comparison of 20in vs 24in.
I saw a 16.5" rifle get much better numbers than they are getting by far. I think they have chamber/headspace issues personally.
@jjmckay6man1 ok here is a bigger issue. Federal doesn't support their own cartridges. 30 super carry, 327 Federal, 338 Federal, 224 val. Another issue if using 20in velocity with that 175 at 3000fps you are only 150fps over a 162gr in 7mm08 with a 22in barrel having the same overall rifle length being 7bc is a long action vs a short. Third only the sig cross action was made with continuous 80000psi use. Yes I understand proof tests are even greater pressures but that is a one time check not constant use. The biggest issue is 7wsm does the exact same thing in a short action with a 22in barrel.
@@BrandonK-r2z what impressed me is the 2900fps with 170gr in a 16.5" barrel. that same barrel shoots the 155gr load at 3050. No cartridges out there can match them on equal playing field. Yes I know what the WSM can do I've been reloading for 300wsm for 20 years. even they can not do these things in a 16.5" barrel. they can come within 100 to 150 fps sure but that extra 100 to 150 energy difference is larger with that extra velocity. you are getting standard cartridge ballistics from 24 in barrels but at a 16.5" length. As far as pressures go this is only 15k over saami spec on many cartridges. I've seen good brass handle that @80k and still be reloaded. no issues whatsoever with the new firearms.
@jjmckay6man1 federal hasn't had a successful long lasting cartridge in 40 years this one will be no different.
@@BrandonK-r2z "federal doesn't support their own cartridges" I go onto federal ammunition website to find 6 different loadings for 327 federal available. lets check the others shall we..oh look at that 10 different 30 super carry loads available. lets check 338 federal. yep still 1 load for 200 grain fusion. oh and look at that 5 different loads for 224 valk. Seems someone is a liar here and it isn't me.
Interesting results. I am not convinced either way yet without more testing. I know build a fine rifle, but maybe the barrel is a problem or something else. My biased wants this round to outperform everything out there with a 20" barrel. I am sure if you loaded these rounds, it would have a much less deviation in fps. It is going to be very difficult to load for this gun with this steel or like steel case. Resizing will be dam near impossible. The juice might not be worth the squeeze.
Time will tell the whole story
top reason to buy a new 7mm round... does this round have this
#1: CHEAPER
#2: accurate
#3: less recoil
#4: more compact with at similar longer barrels
Long range (beyond 500 yards) shooting at animals, considering all the variables, in my view is just nuts.
Can I get some clarification on the ammo used in the 7prc that you showed on the diagram to reach the 66% vs the lower percentages of the 7 BC. The graphic shows you used 175 Eldx but you made comment about using AllTerra premium ammo. Can you speak to if you’re comparing custom ammo vs factory ammo? Wouldn’t a more effective study be running factory in both? Seems unfair to compare custom ammo vs factory. Thanks for clarification
Going to be funny when Savage makes one that out shoots their 6k rifle 😅
yep gonna buy the 110 trail light I think it is called with a 16.5" barrel. saw chrono data on a 16.5" shooting the 170gr TA load at 2900 plus. has me stoked for a dense woods rifle for northern whitetails.
@jjmckay6man1 they are being honest or got more money from hornady seems to me they are pushing the 7mm prc in video and all of the other gun manufacturers seem to not having the problem's they are.
@@MarkCline-o4h they are definitely seeing different results. As to whether it is their chambers the ammo lot, who knows really. they seem honest to me I just think there is something not right. As you said others are not having these issues that I've seen. Data doesn't lie but the cause of different data remains to be seen.
@jjmckay6man1 It will be interesting to how it does I'm a 30 cal. fan would love too see a .308 backcountry
Is it safe to fire 7mm back country ammo to 7mm prc?
NO
@nestorinso6812
What do you mean?
No different round
No. That’s like asking if you can shoot 7mm-08 in 28 Nosler.
How much per box? $70-$100
I have owned three Tikka rifles in 308, 6.5 creedmoor and 6.5 PRC and they all shot 0.3-0.5 MOA out of the box. I have now bought a custom rifle with top components and it does not shoot as well as the Tikka.
Unless a Gunsmith has been making custom guns for a couple of decades i wouldn't touch them.
I have a custom 280 AI. It is a 24 inch Krueger 1-9 barrel using 168 Berger’s. It shoots lights out with velocity of 3035 fps. No pressure issues. Don’t see the benefit of the 7 Back Country unless you want a short barrel. Can’t reload and that is a no go for me.
I’m sure they’re using a fast twist barrel like a 1:8.
They should have used a short-action cartridge like a 284 since they’re trying to go compact.
Don't you think the accuracy is just an ammo issue? Once you're able to load "AllTerra 7 Backcountry premium ammo" you'll be on the same page as the 7PRC - or probably much better?
Definitely an ammo issue. However the ammo is all you can buy at this point in time, and on the box it makes claims about long range performance. If we could hand load for the 7 BC then we absolutely would have.
7mm Backcountry will be like the 338 Federal by becoming obsolete if it doesn't gain popularity.
It would have been good to see a few shots suppressed. It might help a little on velocities, and accuracy especially since it’s one of the reasons why people are ordering shorter barrels.
Looks more like with the popped primers get Peterson to make regular brass put a 28" barrel on it make it a 2000 plus yard steel killer with lower pressures.
might as well have a 280AI if you are just using brass lol.
I'll stay with the old 7mm rem mag.plenty fast for me.
Here is what I want to know
With a standard 24 inch barrel, slowing the powder down, stuffing it to the brim up to that 80k psi and see the velocity...
Nice!!! Great video. I think I will keep my 280AI
Excellent round, and you don’t have to sit behind 80,000 psi of pressure
Exactly how I feel about my 7 prc.
and i will keep my 6.8 western for 90 fps slower out of a 20" barrel suppresed. that is reloadedable.
@@steveperry3538 people probably thought the same 100+ years ago when they increased the pressure from 30,000 area up to 65,000..
I haven’t heard if you can reload for this. If not, it’s a definite pass for me. I’ll stick with my 26” 7wsm shooting 180 Bergers at over 2,900 fps with a much lower ES/SD
The technology this explores might improve other cartridges.
The high velocity writers talk about quick and emphatic kills. This increases the quick and emphatic range. Thats a win. Nobody likes a delayed death.
Did anyone on the marketing team think we'd notice 18 videos on THE NEW HAWT CARTRIDGE uploaded n the same day?
IAM NOT UNDERSTANDING WHY NO ONE EVERY TALKS ABOUT THE 300 WEATHERBY..
Yall missed a big part. If you can push a high BC heavy for caliber bullet faster then you have less wind drift. Why my 6.5 PRC gets half the wind drift or more than my Creed. Dialing a little more isn't an issue. It's the wind drift.
There's a lot of great information here, but I have one question. Did you actually shoot it at distance? If not, then your information and test are incomplete.